Type of plastic in NES cases and sleeves...

[jdchess]

Does anyone know what type of plastic the original black NES sleeves are made out of? My reason for asking is that some plastics like PVC (which was used a lot when these would have been made) are unsafe for long term storage and could damage carts and labels over time. Anyone know? Thanks in advance for the help guys. :D

[jajaja]

Ive had NES games in these cases for over 10 years and they still work great.
Super Mario Bros might have been in the sleeve for over 15 years and it still works as new. Think this is just rumours.

[NESaholic]

I think so too,must be a rumour,and if plastic could damage the cart which plastic are you talking about then?

[jdchess]

PVC can and does have damaging effects over time. It's b/c of the chemical make-up. Polyvinyl-chloride (PVC) releases chloride gas over time which can damage items around it. It's effects were not known until fairly recently though. There are also some possible health and environmental effects. It was used a lot during the time these sleeves would have been produced. It wouldn't necessarily have an effect on how the game played, but on the cosmetics of the cart (label). Plus, I'm thinking about extra long-term storage, and hopefully passing this collection on to my son one day.

[jajaja]

Know what you saying, but I'm not worried. Store your games in cartboard boxes if you are afraid if they might take damage, should be safe enough i'd say.
I havnt noticed anything and i doubt the games would take any damage in your lifetime or maybe even in your son's lifetime.

[Emily]

Hmmm. This is pretty shitty to learn now....

So does anyone know if the little black sleeves are PVC?
I really need to find out what these storage drawers from Wal-Mart are made of. I know someone else uses them here, so does anyone know what they are made of???????



:2gunfire: :bad-words: :texaschain:

[jajaja]

E-mail Nintendo and ask

www.nintendo.com

[SkiDragon]

Well, you could always send a piece to a lab if you really wanted to know.

[Damion]

A while back I used to work in a plastics plant that worked primarly in injection molding. I would fill the hoppers and I used my bare hands alot of the time to mix up virgin plastic and regrinded plastic

anyhoo...

My guess would be either nylon or ABS. PVC is used mainly for plumbing if I recall correctly and just from the touch of the material I know it isn't PVC.

[jdchess]

Actually PVC is used in a LOT of stuff...plumbing, storage cases, vinyl siding, even some children's toys (this one has several environmental and health agencies upset). I'm not sure what the hard shell cases that with the red Nintendo logo are made of either. Also, I'm still not sure what material the sleeves are made of. This could be something good for all of us to try to find out, since it could be very beneficial to those who plan to pass these collections on to their children one day. :)

Also, STERILITE storage products (Wal-Mart) are made from polypropylene which is totally safe and archival. You can look for the recycle symbol on the bottom of any storage case you find. Look for a "5" in the middle of the symbol and the letters "PP" below it...means it's safe. Polyethylene is also safe and archival.

[§ Gideon §]

E-mail Nintendo and ask

www.nintendo.com
I'll do it.

(I'm announcing it here, just so Nintendo doesn't get a bunch of e-mails asking the same question.)

Before I do, though, should I also ask about Game Boy, SNES, and GameCube cases? Or, are some of those already confirmed?

[Bratwurst]

Nah, don't bother, I already emailed them this morning. They don't know.

[jdchess]

Yeah, I've actually talked to a couple of people at Nintendo who supposedly "researched" it and called me back. No answers at all. They said that those items had been out of production for too long for any technical info to be available. As a side note, GCN cases are made of polypropylene, which is the safe, archival plastic I was talking about in my last post. You can remove the paper game cover from behind the plastic cover on the case and look on the binding of the case. You will see the recycle symbol with a number "5" in the middle. This denotes the PP construction.

[§ Gideon §]

Hmm, so how do we find out? Maybe there are some chemicals that react differently to different types of plastic, and we could use them on the cases (e.g. turpentine will melt some kinds, but not others).

It sounds like jd and Damion are in the know. What do you think we should do? Does SkiDragon's suggestion sound about right?

The community needs this sort of info! We could add it to the knowledge base for everyone to see.

[jdchess]

I think that is a great idea Gideon. I'm not sure how to go about identifying the material they are made of for certain though. We need someone who is more familiar with chemistry and thermo-plastics. It would be great to know whether the sleeves and cases that so many of us use regularly are truly ARCHIVAL or not. Surely somone has some ideas on how to id these with some certainty.

[SkiDragon]

The next time I see my chemical engineer friend, I will see if she can tell. Maybe I can ask a professor I had as well, but Im not at school now (summer).

[jdchess]

That's actually a great idea. Anyone else have access to a chemistry professor or perhaps a plastics plant close by that might have a chemical engineer on staff?

[Emily]

Thank god my beloved storage drawers are safe!

I dont plan on just passing my collection on to my children.
I want my emassed games to last several generations, or as long as they can last.
I believe someday, cartridge games in general will be difficult to find. I find very few atari carts these days, and its very clear that 2D is going the way of the Vector.
Keep in mind,Im looking 30-50 years in the future.

This is just my little theory. ;)

[googlefest1]

Yeah, I've actually talked to a couple of people at Nintendo who supposedly "researched" it and called me back. No answers at all. They said that those items had been out of production for too long for any technical info to be available. As a side note, GCN cases are made of polypropylene, which is the safe, archival plastic I was talking about in my last post. You can remove the paper game cover from behind the plastic cover on the case and look on the binding of the case. You will see the recycle symbol with a number "5" in the middle. This denotes the PP construction.

what a load of crap - they have records - they have to - no company would dump engineering records

[jdchess]

I felt that way too googlefest. It looks like they would have to some sort of records left, but I talked to three different people and got the same story from each one. As you know, as of March of this year, Nintendo officially stopped supporting all of the "Authorized Repair Centers." Most of the centers had alreay stopped doing repairs due to the fact that it wasn't usually profitable, but after March, Nintendo totally removed all these repair center records from their database. They used to be able to tell where the closest repair center was based on your location, but I was told they could no longer do this. I suppose it is possible, but unlikely.

[jdchess]

Perhaps someone else should contact Nintendo and see if you get the same story that I did. It's worth a shot at least.

[Bratwurst]

Well it was no surprise to me, really, since everything was manufactured in Japan, why would Nintendo of America have access to any of that information?

If someone wanted to light a fire under their ass just ask if the GBA carts and any earlier Nintendo carts/products have PVC in them since you have health concerns regarding your little kids.

[googlefest1]

it dosent matter if the devices were made in another country -- the US like all other countries have government regulations and procedures you have to go through in order to be alowed to release and market a product

for saftey all kinds of information regarding materials and electronics have to be kept - regulatory affairs

mabey you could ask to talk to thier regulatory affairs people - they have all that info

its probably that they just dont want to be bothered by a few concerned customers regarding old products - especialy when they are dealing with getting the revolution and new handheld passed though the system

especialy when being asked questions about a product whos records were originaly kept on paper - but nintendo is a huge company so i would expect them to have people hiered to digitize old paper records

like where i work - its a small company so there is a ton of paper records -- but when a concern comes from a customer -someone goes and digs through the pile - but this is a medical device comopany so mabey the company is required to

also i agree with bratworst - that if you make your concern regarding health then mabey they would go and dig for you

[jdchess]

I spoke to Nintendo again today. the first guy I spoke with just couldn't understand why I wanted to know about the material the sleeves were made out of. He kept saying that I shouldn't care (which really ticked me off by the way). I finally got on the phone with his supervisor, who told me that they were manufactured in Japan and that any info like that would be in Japan and not at Nintendo of America. He also said that there was no way to contact Nintendo in Japan as they do not have a customer service division at headquarters (which I find extremely hard to beileve). Anyway, I know this is all a loadof crap, but there doesn't seem to be a way to get the answer from Nintendo.

[jdchess]

Also, I did express it as a health concern for my kids, which didn't seem to help at all. Perhaps someone else may have better luck contacting Nintendo.

[§ Gideon §]

:/ Thanks for trying, jd. I appreciate it.

[jdchess]

No problem Gideon. Maybe someone else should try to contact them also. Perhaps someone may have better luck than me and actually get a customer service rep who actually cares about the customers:D

[googlefest1]

nice try though - lasy b@stards

id expect them to do that to any one

thier attitude is strange to me -- were i work that is a major concern - ive never worked outside of medical electronics - so i dont know how those companies are regulated -- i would have assumed that health issues regarding materials would be a concern in consumer products -- i know its also a concern in the food and clothing industry

[googlefest1]

too late now -- but i thought of some more things you could have gone after

regualtory affairs - which i said before
MSDS for the matarials
specs of the cart cases

you could have also claimed you were from a university makeing a study of the degradation of plasic materials and one product chosen was their product

[jdchess]

Oh man!!...I really like the University Project gig...very creative. I might give that a shot. Thanks for the ideas googlefest. 8-)

[jdchess]

Anyone else give it a shot yet?

[dr.wario]

:duh:

[digitalpress]

:duh:

This is what we call a "+1 post" around here.

-100 meseta.

Please do not hit "submit" unless you have something useful to add to a conversation.

[jdchess]

Has anyone been able to find anyone able to ID the material in the black sleeves or the plastic cases yet?

[§ Gideon §]

Nothing here :/. The only idea I've come up with is to e-mail Ben Heck (http://benheck.com/), because he's a crafty fellow who just might know everything NES-related.

Better yet, I'll post on his forum. He seems to browse the boards often. Maybe this will get the ball rolling...

[Bratwurst]

My conclusion? Tanned baby hide.

[§ Gideon §]

Here (http://benheck.com/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3805)'s the thread in case you have anything to add.

[jdchess]

Awesome idea posting there Gideon!! Hopefully that will get something going so we can figure out for sure. Thanks for the effort either way:D

[jdchess]

Any word from the guy's board you posted on Gideon?

[§ Gideon §]

Okay, the thread on Ben Heck's boards (http://benheck.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3805) sank like a turd, but I have good news.

NES dust sleeves have a density of less than 1--both the "Nintendo" ones and the plain ones. For why that's important, click here (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869474#869474). ;)

[studvicious]

what a load of crap - they have records - they have to - no company would dump engineering records

Would you believe that NASA has done the very same thing? ALL of the schematics(?) and details of the rockets pre-shuttle were destroyed or lost. If/when they decide to go to the moon again they would have to start from scratch - fact. Pretty crazy.

[heybtbm]

PVC can and does have damaging effects over time. It's b/c of the chemical make-up. Polyvinyl-chloride (PVC) releases chloride gas over time which can damage items around it. It's effects were not known until fairly recently though. There are also some possible health and environmental effects. It was used a lot during the time these sleeves would have been produced. It wouldn't necessarily have an effect on how the game played, but on the cosmetics of the cart (label). Plus, I'm thinking about extra long-term storage, and hopefully passing this collection on to my son one day.

I'm not even sure where to start...

I mean no offense, jdchess, when I say your assumptions are way off base.

I think what we have here is someone taking a few "facts" out of context and mixing it with a little 1st semester organic chemistry.

I'm a chemist. Let me assure you that the unbelievably small amount of any chemical released after long term breakdown of PVC couldn't possibly damage the label, the ink on the label or the adhesive used to stick the label to the cartridge. That's assuming the PVC is breaking down in the first place...which it isn't. Under ambient conditions, the sleeves (and cartridges for that matter) will last longer than any of us here.

[jdchess]

PVC can and does have damaging effects over time. It's b/c of the chemical make-up. Polyvinyl-chloride (PVC) releases chloride gas over time which can damage items around it. It's effects were not known until fairly recently though. There are also some possible health and environmental effects. It was used a lot during the time these sleeves would have been produced. It wouldn't necessarily have an effect on how the game played, but on the cosmetics of the cart (label). Plus, I'm thinking about extra long-term storage, and hopefully passing this collection on to my son one day.

I'm not even sure where to start...

I mean no offense, jdchess, when I say your assumptions are way off base.

I think what we have here is someone taking a few "facts" out of context and mixing it with a little 1st semester organic chemistry.

I'm a chemist. Let me assure you that the unbelievably small amount of any chemical released after long term breakdown of PVC couldn't possibly damage the label, the ink on the label or the adhesive used to stick the label to the cartridge. That's assuming the PVC is breaking down in the first place...which it isn't. Under ambient conditions, the sleeves (and cartridges for that matter) will last longer than any of us here.

Oh...you're a chemist? I suppose I should just take your word for it then huh? LOL

I'm not a chemist, but my uncle is and he also worked for a plastics manufacturer for over 25 years. We've had some long talks about this very subject and everything I've said, I can back up with research and lab results. Also, I think you would be in a fairly small group that doesn't believe that PVC breaks down and can release harmful amounts of chloride gas. This has been observed and documented time and time again. Now if you would like to point us towards some research that backs up your claims, I would be happy to take a look, but you need more than just a statement. Sorry. x_x

[suckerpunch5]

Well, I'm not a chemist, but I am a physicist and, perhaps even more importantly in this case, a coin collector. Polyvinylchloride (PVC) is a BIG deal in coin collecting. Damage to coins from PVC is well documented. No serious coin collector would even think about using PVC plastic cases for their coins for an extended period of time.

Problems with PVC arise from the release of hydrogen chloride gas at high temperatures. Hydrogen chloride gas then can react with humidity in the air to form hydrochloric acid, which is extremely corrosive. Also, direct contact with PVC can deposit sticky plasticizers onto coins.

The effects of PVC holders on coins has been investigated and documented by Dr. Thomas W. Sharpless, a Chemistry Proff. at the University of Hartford in a paper titled "Report on the Relationship Between Polyvinylchloride and Coin Corrosion." If someone could get in touch with him, perhaps he could help determine if game cases and sleeves are made of PVC.

Since some people on this board don't think this is actually a problem, I will also cite "The Coin Collector's Survival Manual" by Scott A. Travers, which on page 219-223 gives a detailed description of PVC coin holders, and the damage they will do to coins.

Coin holders are sealed pretty good, so the hydrogen chloride gas is allowed to acumulate inside the holder, leading to a significant amount (relatively speaking) of hydrochloric acid. Game sleeves, on the other hand, are loose fitting and allow the hydrogen chloride gas to dissapate. At least, I think they would.

Cases that snap closed are another matter entirely, and until we can figure out what they are made of, should probably be avoided entirely.

To sum up, I probably will still use sleeves, but I might avoid cases until we can find out what kind of plastics are being used. Of course, if you have any doubts, as preciviously mentioned, cardboard is probably safe. As long as it doesn't contain sulfur!

[heybtbm]

PVC can and does have damaging effects over time. It's b/c of the chemical make-up. Polyvinyl-chloride (PVC) releases chloride gas over time which can damage items around it. It's effects were not known until fairly recently though. There are also some possible health and environmental effects. It was used a lot during the time these sleeves would have been produced. It wouldn't necessarily have an effect on how the game played, but on the cosmetics of the cart (label). Plus, I'm thinking about extra long-term storage, and hopefully passing this collection on to my son one day.

I'm not even sure where to start...

I mean no offense, jdchess, when I say your assumptions are way off base.

I think what we have here is someone taking a few "facts" out of context and mixing it with a little 1st semester organic chemistry.

I'm a chemist. Let me assure you that the unbelievably small amount of any chemical released after long term breakdown of PVC couldn't possibly damage the label, the ink on the label or the adhesive used to stick the label to the cartridge. That's assuming the PVC is breaking down in the first place...which it isn't. Under ambient conditions, the sleeves (and cartridges for that matter) will last longer than any of us here.

Oh...you're a chemist? I suppose I should just take your word for it then huh? LOL

I'm not a chemist, but my uncle is and he also worked for a plastics manufacturer for over 25 years. We've had some long talks about this very subject and everything I've said, I can back up with research and lab results. Also, I think you would be in a fairly small group that doesn't believe that PVC breaks down and can release harmful amounts of chloride gas. This has been observed and documented time and time again. Now if you would like to point us towards some research that backs up your claims, I would be happy to take a look, but you need more than just a statement. Sorry. x_x

Give me a break. Nowhere do I say PVC doesn't break down. I said it isn't breaking down if your games/sleeves are being stored at ambient (room temp/humidity) conditions...which I would imagine are the conditions almost every collector keeps their games at. Simply put: If you keep your games in your home, the rate of PVC breakdown is slowed so much that it is not releasing a quantifiable amount of anything.

Add that with the fact that games/sleeves are not being kept in a closed system. Any chemical released is being dispersed into the atmosphere instantly.

Take those two points and you can come to the simple conclusion that the PVC breakdown cannot hurt your games/labels.

I also like how I'm supposed to find research to "backup my claims" yet I haven't made any claims. All that I've said is simple, common sense chemistry. It's not research or breakthrough thinking. PVC under ambient conditions breaks down as such a slow rate, it cannot possibly damage anything near it. If you keep your games with sleeves sealed somehow, you might have a problem...but then again we don't even know that this plastic is PVC.

I was trying to offer an educated opinion and answer your question...not start another boring "argument" on the internet. Tell your uncle what I've said and see if he doesn't agree.

[jdchess]

That's assuming the PVC is breaking down in the first place...which it isn't.


PVC under ambient conditions breaks down as such a slow rate, it cannot possibly damage anything near it.

There's a big difference in something NOT breaking down at all and breaking down SLOWLY. Don't you think? Also, I understand your point about them not being sealed, but we are not only talking about loose fitting sleeves, but snap-shut cases. I would think that would be considered as "sealing." Also, even sleeved NES games, I prefer to keep in plastice bags to keep the dust off of them. So, this is also considered sealed. At least I would think so.

Read suckerpunch5's comments above about coins. He makes some good points.


Also, direct contact with PVC can deposit sticky plasticizers onto coins.

Even if all this PVC talk is a rumor, which its not, why would anyone chance it? My original point was simple...you do NOT want to use anything with PVC to store anything of value for the long term, or short term for that matter. I think most collectors of any kind would agree with me on that.

As far as the black NES sleeves go, they are not PVC as the density is to low. Just make sure you buy polypropelene or polyethelene plastic cases and you will be fine. These two plastics are totally neutral and considered archival safe for storing prints, slides, negatives, etc. (I'm a photographer).