View Full Version : Degradation of CD games? (Edit: and now cartridge too)
Cthulhu
05-17-2005, 02:42 AM
After noticing that some of my PC Engine CD games are around 15 years old, I started to wonder... how long is the lifespan of a CD? I had one extremely early CDR go "bad" on me - it suddenly and abruptly became unplayable in anything - but I know the quality of manufacture (and method, and material) of regular, professionally made CDs is much better.
I'm still sort of curious though. How long is a CD made to "last?" I'm not paranoid that my collection will suddenly be unplayable anytime soon, but since I have some games I don't think I'll ever sell, I've started to wonder.
EDIT: People have started to talk about cartridge games here too, so I edited the subject line.
Should last a lifetime. Yeah, CDR's won't last nearly as long. But good CD's, like music CD's if kept tip top, will last 50-100 years. Supposedly... That is was they claimed when CD's first started to come out. After all, it is only plastic.
I wonder about this too from a different perspective. I have an Amiga computer with over 3000 floppies. Magnetic media will only last 15 or so years tops. Which means, it will be very sad when these games start to go bad. Which is why I started backing the games to CD's to play on emulators.
it290
05-17-2005, 03:24 AM
CDs are supposed to last 100 years or more under ideal conditions, however I have heard of the data layer rotting on some, even professionally pressed discs. Nothing to really worry about though, just keep your discs in a cool, dry area and you'll be fine.
robotriot
05-17-2005, 03:32 AM
Especially CD-Rs don't like lying around in sunlight, I guess this will apply to a certain degree to commercial CDs as well. But if you just keep them in their cases all the time, I don't think much will happen.
googlefest1
05-17-2005, 08:34 AM
i tought they claimed cd should last forever
only thing i could think of making a pressed cd go bad is some king of oxidation on the foil - and i thought the industry claimed that wouldnt happen
vulcanjedi
05-17-2005, 09:06 AM
Yo
Pressed CD's are rated for 100 years but should last longer now with changes in material.
CDR's are a different story though because you are using a laser to etch an organic dye. One thing to remember is that slower writing speeds are able to make cleaner changes so they should last longer. Slow down your write speed.
Magnetic media is another story. I'm listening to a cassette here, Welcome Back My Friends To The Show That Never Ends, Ladies And Gentleman, Emerson Lake and Palmer from 1974 and man is it beat up. I am surprised any of my cassettes laster 30 years :)
VJ
Cthulhu
05-17-2005, 11:21 PM
Thanks for the responses. I can now sleep better at night. LOL
goatdan
05-17-2005, 11:41 PM
Some of the first CDs that were made are now starting to have data loss thanks to rot... but it shouldn't happen with any of the gmaes that any of us own. The first discs weren't sealed in the same manner, and allowed air to get to the aluminum layer inside. Newer discs don't have that, and should last for at least 50 years, if not 100+.
jdchess
05-17-2005, 11:49 PM
On a side note...anyone know how degredation applies to cartridge based games such as NES and N64? How long are carts suppose to last?
Bluteg
05-18-2005, 03:08 AM
Oxidation affects carts too mainly in the form of rust... so I would imagine in 30 years it would be better to go cart hunting in dryer climates.
vulcanjedi
05-18-2005, 08:30 AM
On a side note...anyone know how degredation applies to cartridge based games such as NES and N64? How long are carts suppose to last?
Proms and Eproms do break down and the first gen ones are more apt for this to happen. I have heard conflicting reports on how long the proms in atari carts would last as low as 35 years to as high as 100.
As with everything else technology gets better and things last longer. Remember when LED's had a life expectancy that was as long as a light bulb?
Digitize and duplicate people! :)
VJ
Cthulhu
05-18-2005, 11:32 AM
Proms and Eproms do break down and the first gen ones are more apt for this to happen. I have heard conflicting reports on how long the proms in atari carts would last as low as 35 years to as high as 100.
As with everything else technology gets better and things last longer. Remember when LED's had a life expectancy that was as long as a light bulb?
Digitize and duplicate people! :)
VJ
For my valuable CD games on systems that can run CD-R discs, I just use burned copies. I realize that using a CD probably doesn't bring any risk of damage to the discs whatsoever, but I use duplicates anyway... "just in case." LOL
Good thing games usually aren't the first things released on a new media format. Otherwise we'd be worried about this more I suppose...
Vectorman0
05-18-2005, 11:48 PM
I think that the projected life of pressed disc media is highly inflated. Of course they claim to have stress tested it and have proven the logetivity, but there really is no sure way to know the average life of a disc, until they have been around long enough to know from experience. Just look at all of the medicines projected to be safe, that haven't been recalled until way after use by the masses set the story straight.
bargora
05-19-2005, 02:36 PM
I think that the projected life of pressed disc media is highly inflated. Of course they claim to have stress tested it and have proven the logetivity, but there really is no sure way to know the average life of a disc, until they have been around long enough to know from experience. Just look at all of the medicines projected to be safe, that haven't been recalled until way after use by the masses set the story straight.
That is the weirdest comparison I've consumed all week.
Oh, yes. I think the FDA (Federal Disc Administration) really fell down on the job, letting all those CDs go out without adequate testing. Really, they should have been held back 100 years before being released to make sure that they will last that long. But you see, it's all part of a government conspiracy in collusion with multinational corporations.
I just hope they last long enough to get me through retirement, or at least until the nuclear war happens.
Captain Wrong
05-19-2005, 02:44 PM
The oldest disc in my collection is from 1984 (the first CD I ever owned) and it still plays fine. I've heard of older discs and lazerdiscs getting "disc rot" due to the manufacturing techniques being more primitive in the late 70s/early 80s.
The reality is, with disc media it's all speculation at this point in time. It's assumed that modern CDs will have a lifespan of 50/100+ years, but in reality no one can say for sure because the oldest commercially avaliable CDs are only 25 years old (or so.) It's all guesses, though it does seem safe to say your CDs will probably outlive you, if you care for them correctly.
The Manimal
05-19-2005, 05:47 PM
CDs deteriorate. I bet my cassettes will last longer than many of them. Vinyl forever :D
Cthulhu
05-19-2005, 07:11 PM
CDs deteriorate. I bet my cassettes will last longer than many of them. Vinyl forever :D
Dang! I should have bought all my games on vinyl rather than CD! LOL
Captain Wrong
05-19-2005, 09:10 PM
CDs deteriorate. I bet my cassettes will last longer than many of them. Vinyl forever :D
I wouldn't necessarily count on that. Magnetic audio tape isn't exactly a stable media either. Cheap or improperly stored tape can shed oxide leaving spots on the tape you can see through. Drop outs, print through and oxide shedding. Just some of the fun things magnetic tape archivists have to look forward to.
Vinyl? A bit harder to kill, assuming you keep it away from heat and out of the damp. I've seen too many taco records in my time as well as records that were apparently growing Penicillin! Additionally, vinyl deteorates everytime you play it, more so if you're not finatical about cleaning your record and stylus and most people aren't.
The sad reality is, there just isn't a "perfect" archival media out there. Analog, digital, whatever. It all has it's good and bad points.