Illinois senate passes stupid new law

[Promophile]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050520/ap_on_hi_te/video_games

my favorite part? A quote from the creator of the bill


"Video games are not art or media," she said. "They are simulations, not all that different from the simulations used by the U.S. military in preparation for war."

I'm happy the government is finally telling me what is and isn't art. Hmmmm games aren't media? OMG THATS WHY GAMES CAN'T BE SENT MEDIA MAIL! Anways cya guys later, I'm off to go play my Super Mario simulation. I'm learning how to squish turtles and mushroom shaped creatures.

[GamerNerd]

I just read about earlier today & I already know what game or games is art or not.

[chadtower]

eh, 99% of the games to which this would apply are crap anyway. They should make it so any retailer that sells these games to anyone would be fined.

[Gamereviewgod]

These people are supposed to be intelligent, right? So, Mrs. Demuzio, care to explain to us how exactly the military uses Super Mario Sunshine to train super soldiers? Alternatively, maybe you'd care to enlighten us all on how Resident Evil 4 trained our military to shoot brain-hungry zombies? Maybe there is more going on at Area 51 than we know!

Of course, we all know they make games like the ones she's talking about (one made by own government). Of course, they make up about 2% of the market. They also have a Tom Clancy name attached to the for the most part. Why is she not trying to ban the sale of violent books to kids too?

To dismiss video games and reject them as an art form is as near-sighted as those early moviegoers who failed to recognize film as art. The problem is that people in office have two problems:

1. They don't play video games, nor did they grow up with them. They don't understand them and attack.

2. They see news footage of Grand Theft Auto and immediately believe that all video games are just like that. They do absolutely no research beforehand, and then end up making absurd statements like Mrs. Demuzio up there.

Then you have a new one, another Senator who is voting for this bill not because he actually believes it's right, but because he worries about his votes.

"I'm going to vote for this bill, but I'm voting for it for one reason - because this is a political bill," said Sen. Mike Jacobs. "If I vote against it, it will show up in a campaign mail piece."

Maybe I'm just not politically inclined enough (I know I'm not), but isn't the point of being in office to share your own views to make sure things like this don't happen? If not, are you really doing your job? Bills like this don't need to exist, and the reason they do is nothing more than lack of information, or a plethora of miss-information, nothing more.

[chadtower]

The originating senator does not believe it, either. It's a simple political strategy. Find some issue against which your opponents cannot possibly vote, raise a bill for it, get it passed. That's an accomplishment for you, a free one, one that looks good in ads. If your opponents vote you down, you can smear them all the way to Kingdom Come for voting against protecting the children.

It has nothing at all to do with video games.

[briskbc]

The Illinois Senate approved a version of Gov. Rod Blagojevich's proposed restrictions on the sales of violent and sexually explicit video games to children,....

I have no problem with this part of the bill. The execution is just plain horrible unless the article is leaving out some details.

Why does the retailer have to determine what is and is not suitable? That alone makes this law nonsense. They can use the game ESRB ratings but as I understand that is a voluntary system within the industry. Different preceptions of what lawmakers and the board (whose ratings I haven't had a problem with) consider violent leaves too much room for error. Too much grey area.

Edit: Removed an incomplete sentance about lawyers. Forgot to remove it when posted.

[Promophile]

yeah its almost as funny as the ban on "sexy cheerleading" in Texas, the state with the 47th worst test scores. Doesn't suprise me that Texas is where Bush was educated.

[AFGiant]

This article has no effect on me. I'm already convinced that America has gone down the drain.

[link1110]

Warning: Rant on not only this law, but games in general ahead.

This law is a case of "the popular ones are like that, so they all must be like that." Sure Grand Theft Same as the last 5, Generic FPS #532 and Madden rehash whatever aren't art, and with them all becoming more realistic could be considered simulations (and with the exception of Madden, that of violence,) but 90% of the games out there do not fall into any of those categories, sure 99% of the popular ones here in the US do, and that's all the politicians see on TV, and trying to ban these is appealing to the masses, who are as ignorant asdthese politicians are.

Now if they'd look at GOOD games like Final Fantasy 10, they would see that some games DO have substance beyond the popular games. And I dare say that this is Sony's contribution to video games, making them more appealing to the ignorant masses (yes, a different group of them) who only want those popular games. Remember in the 16-bit and even about the first half of the 32-bit era when we actually had different varieties of games that would actually sell, now only the 3 categories above, with very few exceptions, sell at all, and almost all my favorite games this generation are niche titles or imports.

[rbudrick]

"I'm going to vote for this bill, but I'm voting for it for one reason — because this is a political bill," said Sen. Mike Jacobs. "If I vote against it, it will show up in a campaign mail piece."

WTF!!!!????

What a big fucking pussy. Are you kidding me?

In other words, "I really don't understand the issue and don't want to spend enough time to familiarize myself with it, so I'm just going to go with it because it's easier than having to deal with it."

Refuckingdiculous.

-Rob

[gamegirl79]

Hmmm... *scratches head*

These folks we call p...p....parents is it?

What are they used for again?

[Graham Mitchell]

I don't have problem with them restricting the sale of naughty games to minors. They probably SHOULD restrict the sale of naughty games to minors. But for chrissakes, don't bring up the art vs. not-art crap. That just makes you and your campaign look like ignorrant, unacculturated bafoons.

@link1110: This applies to you, too. It's pretty much impossible to give a solid definition of what is or isn't art. 2 Live Crew will tell you that their records are art. The guy that designed the G-force simulator for the Air Force training program will probably tell you that his creation is not art. The user or listener may interpret the 2 Live Crew records as garbage, or think that the G-force simulator is a creative work of genious, and that's fine. But it's not up to you or me to definitively decide that, because art is totally subjective.

I don't like the Madden or FPS games any more than you do, but I'm not going to claim they're not art. I'm not trying to batter you or anything, so don't take it personally. I just feel strongly about this concept. :)

[goatdan]

Hmmm... *scratches head*

These folks we call p...p....parents is it?

What are they used for again?

I think that pretty much after the mating activity occurs, the male of the species now crawls off to god knows where. The female of the species is stuck inubating the offspring for approximately nine months, at which point she exits the picture and society become responsible for this plague.

I actually have no problem with the bill itself. Okay, so it is illegal to sell M rated games to people under the age of 18, which is okay as long as the M rating is what is used, and not (as the article states), "require store owners to determine which games are too violent or sexually explicit for anyone under 18."

The fact that these other people then attack the games has nothing to do with the bill itself.

I'm okay with doing that. As I've said on here in the past, there are still ways that kids will get these games, and if their parents are okay with them getting them, they still can. It just means that the parents will be there to do so.

The fact that they took the time to declare that video games were not art and nothing more than simulations though proves that they really don't know about the issue at all.

[nate1749]

Blagojevich will be gone next term anyways. This type of bill is seen all the time in a lot of variations and always has been since the 80s. Nothing new here. Anytime someone's political career starts to go down the drain I notice an ironic trend to focusing on doing things for our kids (clinton was a master at "for the children"), such as more focus on drugs and violent videogames and tv, blah blah.

What I find more disturbing is this guy's comment. He states that he's not going to vote for a bill on how he feels, but rather to due to potential future political pressure??? I mean this is obviously common, but to just come flat out and say it, wow. At least he's honest.
"I'm going to vote for this bill, but I'm voting for it for one reason — because this is a political bill," said Sen. Mike Jacobs. "If I vote against it, it will show up in a campaign mail piece."

Nate

[Ed Oscuro]

yeah its almost as funny as the ban on "sexy cheerleading" in Texas, the state with the 47th worst test scores. Doesn't suprise me that Texas is where Bush was educated.
He was? I thought he was a private school type, and in any case his family comes from the north east.

But yes...Chadtower hit the nail on the head. I'm actually not sure if these people aren't tools enough to believe their own propaganda, but the way in which it works is fairly straightforward, and it's rather amusing that the way most gamers come to realize how politics work is through the video games discussion :P

They better hope and pray nobody gets an idea like this in my state...

[Ed Oscuro]

"I'm going to vote for this bill, but I'm voting for it for one reason — because this is a political bill," said Sen. Mike Jacobs. "If I vote against it, it will show up in a campaign mail piece."
WTF!!!!????

What a big fucking pussy. Are you kidding me?
Must be pullin' my leg. Didn't you know that this is what politics are about? Doesn't matter if it's the US, Italy, or the U.K (see the fox hunting ban) this is how democratic-style politics work.


In other words, "I really don't understand the issue and don't want to spend enough time to familiarize myself with it, so I'm just going to go with it because it's easier than having to deal with it."
Not correct. He's actually being as brave as possible in that he's come right out to say "That guy is full of shit, so unless people support me I'll have to go along with it, because voters are fools and will believe I hate children."

[Graham Mitchell]

Not correct. He's actually being as brave as possible in that he's come right out to say "That guy is full of shit, so unless people support me I'll have to go along with it, because voters are fools and will believe I hate children."

So true. It makes me sick.

[Push Upstairs]

Video Games arent art? LOL

Well i don't find politics to be a "real job"...i guess we are even.


Anyone else notice how politics is alot like high school? Doing whats "cool" and "popular" so you will be well liked. And those that don't follow the "in crowd" are shunned and ignored.

[pragmatic insanester]

i hate these type of threads, as i want to scream about killing people. i doubt that if i did, it would get any kind of monitoring, but knowing the retarded apes that comb every forum, i will restrain myself.

fuck you, shit calling itself america.

[Yago]

Why do you think I don't live in Chicago anymore? Idiots like these. Illinois is full if ignorant politicians. How about these?

You can get a ticket for driving in the rain with your headlights off. Or...

You can't have a For Sale sign in your car because it is hazzardous and causes gapers, which can cause accidents. Or...

If you are in the far left lane on the highway, the "fast" lane and are doing the speed limit but still holding up traffic, you can get a ticket.

Yes, these are laws! Ill. sucks.

[Yago]

Oh, wanted to add that arn't the people that do the graphics for games called graphic ARTists?

[Mangar]

As i say in all these threads....

This law is irrelevant, because it will be found unconstitutional. It's no different from the various other videogame/media related laws that were overturned. Count your blessings that our forefathers were wise enough to anticipate that over-reaching politicians would attempt to infringe on our rights, and as such write safeguards to prevent it.

Not even a minute chance that this will stand.

[AlanD]

How about these?

You can get a ticket for driving in the rain with your headlights off.

Just as an aside, Virginia has this law too but it is rarely enforced. I actually wish they did enforce it and people started following it. A lot of colors but especially light gray tends to blend into the background when rain is pouring down and misting up on the road. It is not for you to see but others to see you.

Sorry for the topic swerve but this is one of my pet peeves when driving and thought I would try to explain

[Graham Mitchell]

Why do you think I don't live in Chicago anymore? Idiots like these. Illinois is full if ignorant politicians. How about these?

You can get a ticket for driving in the rain with your headlights off. Or...

You can't have a For Sale sign in your car because it is hazzardous and causes gapers, which can cause accidents. Or...

If you are in the far left lane on the highway, the "fast" lane and are doing the speed limit but still holding up traffic, you can get a ticket.

Yes, these are laws! Ill. sucks.

When I moved here two years ago, I was wildly entertained by the election ads on TV. Not one of them bothers to boast about some good thing the politician who paid for the ad did. They're all muckraking about the opponent. All of them. Every ad is about how somebody doesn't like kids, or voted against some tire regulation because he wants semis to run down people in Hondas. It's funny if you're not a state resident. If you are, it's scarry.

[Archenemy]

Wait- I have been playing Shining Force 1-3 for the past months.

Then- RUN! x_x

I will soon begin to cast Lv 4 Firebolts, summon Mythical Beasts- Like the Phonix and Tiamat-, and Leveling up to a Lv-40 Hero with a Holy Sword cuting all humans and goblins in my path :hmm:

[googlefest1]

i think they mention ART so that games dont fall into the freedom of speach catagory

i don't think they meant all games to be simulations

i didnt read the article - but someone mentioned something about games helping create better soldiers or somethign like that -- it does -- why do you think the military has games made for them - and why do you think the military has studied games affects on soldiers -- botom line is that the games help desensitize potential soldiers or even soldiers for that mater - it helps take away some of the fear and phsycological effects of seeing gory things

so from that respect they are correct - other wise i dont think the military would have spent so much money makeing their "own" games

so its a particular type of game that does this - and Im sure you ALL know this - but are making rediculus analogies to mario and other games like it

i think becasue the politicians dont exactly know how to aproach this becasue of thier limited experience with games they dont word thier arguments correctly

in the future - there will be politicians familiar with games and thats when you will see a crack down -- i dont think anything they try to do now will ban much of anything - so i wouldnt worry

even if they pass some laws making strict restictions on ages - there will always be a way for you to get your hands on any game you want - so i wouldnt even worry about that either

they wont be able to stop the production of any kind of games becasue they are too strong on the market

[Promophile]

"I'm going to vote for this bill, but I'm voting for it for one reason — because this is a political bill," said Sen. Mike Jacobs. "If I vote against it, it will show up in a campaign mail piece."
WTF!!!!????

What a big fucking pussy. Are you kidding me?
Must be pullin' my leg. Didn't you know that this is what politics are about? Doesn't matter if it's the US, Italy, or the U.K (see the fox hunting ban) this is how democratic-style politics work.


In other words, "I really don't understand the issue and don't want to spend enough time to familiarize myself with it, so I'm just going to go with it because it's easier than having to deal with it."
Not correct. He's actually being as brave as possible in that he's come right out to say "That guy is full of shit, so unless people support me I'll have to go along with it, because voters are fools and will believe I hate children."

Yep you hit the nail on the head Ed. Especially in todays day and age when news can spread in a matter of hours, and you have reporters and muck rakers working 24/7 trying to find the next juicy bit of scandal.

[Mangar]

i think they mention ART so that games dont fall into the freedom of speach catagor


This is correct btw.

From a legal perspective it's actually kind of clever. The law still don't have a chance in hell of actually standing, but this does show that the politicians already know *WHY* it won't stand, and are doing everything in their power to prevent it.

[WanganRunner]

yeah its almost as funny as the ban on "sexy cheerleading" in Texas, the state with the 47th worst test scores.

Have you ever seen the average IQ, broken out by state?

www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~gcharter/iq.txt

It's SCARY. Mississippi has an average IQ of 85. That's their AVERAGE. It means HALF is BELOW that. That's just bloody terrifying. I mean, anything below 75 gets into varying levels of retardation. These people VOTE.

On topic: That law is both the product of ignorance AND blatantly unconstitutional. I really hope someone challenges it and gets it overturned.

[SSJ3]

That sucks. But I doubt that, that law is going to last becasue a lot of people are going to revolt against that saying "freedom of speech is being limited". Didn't tehy try and pass that before in other states?And failed? I wouldn't be suprised if the Supreme Court rejects that, things like that always happen. Look at gun control.

[Aswald]

We are in a war based on a lie in Iraq. Many thousands are dead or permanently crippled- doomed, plus the medical bills.

But wait- WAIT!- how could I have been so stupid? That's not a bad thing at all, it's...it's...VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES.

This is yet another example of people in charge trying to make it LOOK like they are doing something useful.

No wonder today's kids consider adults to be total imbeciles.

[kainemaxwell]

Thanks big brother for telling me what to think again!
:angry:

[Ed Oscuro]

yeah its almost as funny as the ban on "sexy cheerleading" in Texas, the state with the 47th worst test scores.

Have you ever seen the average IQ, broken out by state?

www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~gcharter/iq.txt

It's SCARY. Mississippi has an average IQ of 85. That's their AVERAGE. It means HALF is BELOW that. That's just bloody terrifying. I mean, anything below 75 gets into varying levels of retardation. These people VOTE.
Edit: oops, we got PRANKED
http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp

(Yeah yeah, Snopes is like "hay I got this link and I'm not gonna check my facts becuz Snopes did." Surely ILLINOIS being "SMARTER" than Michigan was a sign, though.

[Push Upstairs]

No wonder today's kids consider adults to be total imbeciles.

There are just as many dumb kids as there are dumb adults.

But kids are kids, what's the adults excuse?

[Promophile]

yeah its almost as funny as the ban on "sexy cheerleading" in Texas, the state with the 47th worst test scores.

Have you ever seen the average IQ, broken out by state?

www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~gcharter/iq.txt

It's SCARY. Mississippi has an average IQ of 85. That's their AVERAGE. It means HALF is BELOW that. That's just bloody terrifying. I mean, anything below 75 gets into varying levels of retardation. These people VOTE.
Edit: oops, we got PRANKED
http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp

(Yeah yeah, Snopes is like "hay I got this link and I'm not gonna check my facts becuz Snopes did." Surely ILLINOIS being "SMARTER" than Michigan was a sign, though.

Still I would like to see a real chart with the same data. It wouldn't suprise me at all if it would be pretty similar to this one.