rare value in DP guides

[googlefest1]

generaly how is that determined - is it by observation - or factual numbers - like # produced and years gone by

[bargora]

42

[googlefest1]

sorry if this is the 42nd time this has been asked - but i coulnd't find the info on the site - mabey it should be in yellow and in your face - on the guide page


also i will add to my question

i dont think most people have kept thier sega genesis boxes - since almost every single title i see on ebay and in the shops - have no boxes - - so i dont think thats correct to say in the rarity guilde

[tynstar]

sorry if this is the 42nd time this has been asked - but i coulnd't find the info on the site - mabey it should be in yellow and in your face - on the guide page


also i will add to my question

i dont think most people have kept thier sega genesis boxes - since almost every single title i see on ebay and in the shops - have no boxes - - so i dont think thats correct to say in the rarity guilde

I know lots of people that kept the boxes. Most retail store that have Genesis games throw away the boxes and manuals. They say it takes up less space.

[burnt toast]

the mega drive boxes are quite easy to keep in good condition as they are hard plastic cases rather than cardboard.
true it is difficult to find them in perfect mint condition and people seem to hate manuals and throw them away for some reason. the more collectable (anything decent) games are worth quite a lot more with the boxes and manuals intact so sometimes its worth picking up wandering carts of games if you just want to play them which is what i did with gunstar, still waiting to get a boxed copy tho.
the only carboard boxed game that i can think of is sonic and knuckles so to get a nice condition boxed with instructions copy can be a bit of a pain but its so easy to find that it shouldn't be too hard. also people seem to enjoy smashing the little lid to cover the lock on, about half the carts i see have this bit broken off.
but all the mega drive prices seem a little low in the guide, but then living in the uk where the mega drive was king, i guess theres more demand than over in the states.
also some games had random posters or flyers or various bits and pieces. the micromachines two tournament invitation and award sheets have to be my favourites of random stuff found inside boxes.

just to say its a lot easier to keep a megadrive game box than a snes or an n64 box.

[Bluteg]

More people keep SMS and Genesis boxes because they are plastic instead of that cheap ass paper they used for the later releases.

[googlefest1]

yes , i and everyone else i know keep the boxes - but since the stores dump them you cant say that many boxed games exist any more - at least in the US

just look at ebay - its like 70% unboxed games

[TheRedEye]

It's usually based on how many cigarettes are left in my pack when I'm writing the description.

[googlefest1]

i didn't think id get a strait answer

[Mayhem]

Though that's partially because it's been asked so often, we're a little... blaise about it to say the least ;)

[googlefest1]

Guys, I knew it must have been asked many times before

That’s why I searched first - I figured it must have been asked many times therefore easy to search - but its not -- the more accurate you are in your query, comes up with nothing - the more general, comes up with half the forum posts -- also, its not like you get an idea of what’s inside the hits you get either -- I know you can say I’m not querying right – but that’s my luck – so that’s why I asked in a post

Actually I did find things. Things relating to using observation and opinion rather than facts, and what I’m looking for. Something that verifies if facts are used or if they are not – and backing that up with a couple examples relating to the types of paths taken in finding the facts.

I was beginning to think that addressing that issue was intentionally being avoided – that’s why I asked it. Hoping for an end to the frustration picked up in the searching.

I was also wondering why something relating to my question was not available in the faq for the guide. That’s what started my questioning avoidance of the issue.

[anagrama]

This previous thread is still on the first page of the forum:

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56848

[googlefest1]

i saw that one already - it didnt have what i was looking for

that was actualy my first hit

i gues ill drop the question

edit: actualy ill try one last time -- what i was looking for was the formula (thats the best way to describe it) - if one exists here - formula backed up by a procces

[anagrama]

The top-secret DP formula is closely guarded in the interests of international security. Not even the section editors are allowed full comprehension of it.
You'd have a better chance of trying to discover Coca Cola's formula.

[Sniderman]

what i was looking for was the formula (thats the best way to describe it) - if one exists here - formula backed up by a procces


3X2(9YZ)4A

[googlefest1]

woah, you've found the secret to the universe

[PapaStu]

The top-secret DP formula is closely guarded in the interests of international security. Not even the section editors are allowed full comprehension of it.
You'd have a better chance of trying to discover Coca Cola's formula.

Shit you've got a formula???!?!?!

I just get drunk and hit random keys on my 10key and call it a night. :embarrassed:

[googlefest1]

this makes me disappointed I bought the books - my feeling now is that they are only worth as a list

I wasn't trying to find out the dp method so that I could copy it and start my own books - I just wanted a validation for my self that the dp system was the one to go with and not need to look any further - I had a small doubt before I posted this question - now I’m truly doubting the system

I know it’s not going to be fool proof - but at least knowing that there was a scientific process for determining the value would have made me feel more comfortable in trusting this virtual reservoir of information.

Damn this sucks – I’m bummed

Thanks anyway for at least making it light hearted

[hydr0x]

what do you expect? a scientific formula? how do you think that would look like???? you KNOW it's impossible, other collectors guides (not related to games) also don't have a formula, there just ain't a thing like that

but as you said your actual question was



that the dp system was the one to go with and not need to look any further

well, the answer is YES, you don't have to look any further, noone will ever have a scientific formula and i doubt anyone will ever be able to build up another db from scratch with raritys anywhere near as accurate as ours

[PapaStu]

Good Gravy...... :roll:

Seriously, do you really think that we'd just go and pull random numbers from the air? No. We look at how common games are found in the wild, how common they are in/on online auction sites (like ebay), take a look at what they sell for in all places and try to determine a set price for them. We also have to factor in reagionality and in some cases we can get to use numbers like 'Oh this game was a Greatest Hits/Million seller so its a fair bit more common'.

Remember they are a GUIDE, not the gospel truth. It comes down to what these games are worth to YOU in the end, and it doesnt really matter what we say, though we try to prevent you from spending lots of money on things like SMB/DH or Combat carts if we can. On top of that our prices are meant to be a little on the low side, but high enough so if you offered someone guide for them, it wouldnt be a slap in the face or anything.

There can be NO scientific process in a realm and hobby where different people (one set of variables) all place different values on objects (more variables) that arnt seen all the time (variables group thrice), that might or might not depend on completeness/conditon (wha more variables you say?) and even then im sure i'm forgetting a variable or two that makes an exact thing go out the window.

Know that these guides and prices were not thrown together overnight and are edited by some of the bigger, more insane collectors for those systems on the boards. We at no point say were 100% right, but I'll be damned if I'm that off base with my section and I can bet that most of the other editors are in the same boat with me. However should you see something thats off in the PS section feel free to ask me and I'll be glad to give you my opinion on your points and change something if necessary.

[chaoticjelly]

Ok I got the answer,

We need to break into peoples homes, raid their attics, because there may be many games lying there waiting to be discovered..

That game, you think is rare, bub, it may just be an R2 instead of an R9

Joe Bloggs may have 200 copies sitting in his attic

[googlefest1]

papa stu and hydr0x

I understood that a lot of the work in creating the guide is exactly as you described - I did find that in my searches.
I was just wondering if there was any contact with the industry that goes along with what you described.

as far as scientific formula - I hope you didn’t think I was looking for a mathematical equation - I just meant - a process that is followed throughout every section of the guide(s) making them all somewhat equalized and relative to the process. Not just totally based on individuals but, rather individuals adhering to a mechanical scheme.

Something that proved there was something like that. Which I didn’t find in my seaches.

Like something you described, plus some market and manufacturing data. Something as simple as that – nothing hugely complicated like: we take this and that, put it into excel and generate a value - I understood it greatly relied on ones opinion I was just wondering all the factors that go into forming it.

Would I think differently if there wasn’t anything like I described? Of course, but at least I would know. Would it stop me from using it? no, but, as you said, I would think of it less as a bible but rather more as a guide

I am very happy a group like this has come together and put forth such a professional effort in creating a guide and a community based around it – I am appreciative of it and greatly surprised it is mostly offered up for free. I really wasn’t trying to step on anyone’s toes. I am just trying to validate my ehem cough cough… love for this place and the guide. Just want to clear up any misgivings I have that have come from unanswered questions. That’s in my personality – I worry too much – that’s why I usually am so thorough in things that I do. – I really didn’t want that to come out as gay sounding as that did but instead of rewriting it I put this in.

So I thank the efforts put into it – I just had a question about the process

Oh and joe bloggs may have 200 copies of everything in his attic – that’s where the manufacturing data comes in handy. :)

[PapaStu]

papastu and hydr0x

I understood that a lot of the work in creating the guide is exactly as you described - I did find that in my searches.
I was just wondering if there was any contact with the industry that goes along with what you described.
Not to my real knowledge. Remember that this started as a rarity guide for classic games and systems. Most of that info isnt known (like release counts and such) except in some cases where specific developers and small publishers have come forth and said something (and that isnt common). If that kind of info was known we'd have a lot more complete information for every system and wouldnt still find even current gen stuff that we never knew about. That isnt to say that I've not met some high ups from Sony and found out about some cool things, but by no means has what ive learned from them decided the rarity stuffs.


as far as scientific formula - I hope you didn’t think I was looking for a mathematical equation - I just meant - a process that is followed throughout every section of the guide(s) making them all somewhat equalized and relative to the process. Not just totally based on individuals but, rather individuals adhering to a mechanical scheme. We all adhere to a similar set of rules. Each system bears its own weight based on popularity and commonality (so there can be a good level of deviation between systems and how there are determined rares for each system.) To a degree the raritys are all on par with each other across systems as well as a per system basis. I'll get back to this in a minute.



Like something you described, plus some market and manufacturing data. Something as simple as that – nothing hugely complicated like: we take this and that, put it into excel and generate a value - I understood it greatly relied on ones opinion I was just wondering all the factors that go into forming it. No market and manufacturing data is regularly available for the general public. Most companies and places hold onto game sales figures and we really only get to guess (at best) about figures and sometimes numbers leak out (like the 10k produced DragonBallGT Final Bout and Panzer Dragoon Saga numbers) but even then we really dont know, because we dont work for the companies. Well I cant speak for others but I know that theres nothing I plug into excel but my knowledge and observations seen in the many marketplaces that we need to look at to help determine prices.


Would I think differently if there wasn’t anything like I described? Of course, but at least I would know. Would it stop me from using it? no, but, as you said, I would think of it less as a bible but rather more as a guide Like what? You assume/d that we just make this shit up? DP wouldnt still be around if it was that full of BS. Good products stay, bad ones dont.


I am very happy a group like this has come together and put forth such a professional effort in creating a guide and a community based around it – I am appreciative of it and greatly surprised it is mostly offered up for free. I really wasn’t trying to step on anyone’s toes. I am just trying to validate my ehem cough cough… love for this place and the guide. Just want to clear up any misgivings I have that have come from unanswered questions. That’s in my personality – I worry too much – that’s why I usually am so thorough in things that I do. – I really didn’t want that to come out as gay sounding as that did but instead of rewriting it I put this in. W/o the community most of this would never be either A. Discovered B. Understood or C. Even talked about


So I thank the efforts put into it – I just had a question about the process No Prob....


Oh and joe bloggs may have 200 copies of everything in his attic – that’s where the manufacturing data comes in handy. :) Thats nice, but then again its almost always impossible to know, and when people hold that many of one game, unless they release them VERY slowly, they will flood the market and kill the demand and its value (which has happened numerous times).

As seen in the front of the Rarity Guides is a list that describes the R's that the guide uses to tag rarity. Here's what DP has to say about all this


There is a scarcity value that commonly appears next to the dollar value, and it represents a scale of 1-10, with 1 being the most common and 10 being the most rare.

R0: titles listed with a rarity of zero are simply games that were never released or require more research on our side. All rumor mill titles and current gen systems sport zeros.

R1:These are items you can find or buy anywhere. When you find a bunch of games, these will be in the pile.

R2: You can find these titles just about anywhere, too, they are just slightly less common, perhaps in certain areas.

R3: You'll find these items throughout the proper channels (other collectors!), not as common "on the street", but fairly common on the internet.

R4: Things get a little harder here, as a title rated as such could have a lower production run, or other factors that pull it out of the common bin, but nowhere near rare. You can start calling titles here on out as Uncommon.

R5: The hunt begins. Five are the kinds of items you have to look for, but definately always in reach.

R6: If you see a six or greater, atleast one of us had a problem finding this title. You can call this VERY UNCOMMON and if you so desire BORDERLINE RARE.

R7: RARE. A true collectable! Sevens up represent the hardest 25% of games listed in this guide.

R8: We consider these items you'll never find by chance (except in those legendary lucky finds). There are a few eights that we havn't gotten our grubby little hands on... yet.

R9: The centerpieces of a collection make up the nines. If you even hope to buy one of these, prepare to write out a BIG check.

R10: Not only is this a centerpiece of a collection, but tens mean that you could be holding a one of a kind (certainly just one of a handfull). Kind of like holding a 1953 Mickey Mantle or an Action Comics #1.

Note that a 2 for the Atari 2600 should be just as easy or hard to find as a 2 on the NeoGeo AES. It's all relative across systems, not within them.

[anagrama]

A small but important distinction to make is that the DP Guide is not based on an empirical 'Rarity' value, which would be determined solely based on number of copies made minus number of copies lost/destroyed since then.
Instead, it is a 'Scarcity' rating which basically evaluates how hard it is for Joe Collector to find a copy of a particular game. There's a lot of other factors involved than sales figures since, for example, some games may have sold relatively well but are rarely offered for sale because people hang on to them. Conversely, there are games that will have sold much less yet are much easier to find because they have little play value today.

It's this reasoning that also makes it irrelevant whether or not there are huge stashes of games awaiting discovery in attics or warehouses - sure, there may be a warehouse full of cases of DarXide somewhere, but that wouldn't make it any easier to find one unless someone uncovers them. And if something like that did happen (like with Mega Man: The Wily Wars recently), then we would take it into account and make any appropriate adjustments.

[googlefest1]

Well now I finally know – thank you all for your insight
I was curious if there was a system used for finding market information. Considering the operations of company I work for – they employ people to find out specifics ( like that ones I mentioned) to determine the market value for something and for the potential dollars left to obtain. I know this is not the same scenario – I was just wondering. – well actualy I was hoping there was but there isn’t – and that’s ok -

what I think is bad about the current system is that if it is as described, it leaves a lot of work to be done in maintenance. I can see someone slaving to keep up with changes trying to monitor what’s currently going on with certain titles and making changes accordingly. – not that fun If it was partly based on some facts like time and number produced then that would be much easier to maintain.

Well I hope others will find this post easily when looking for the same info so that the questions can somewhat stop – I wish I could change the title to make it pop up under more specific searches.