PDA

View Full Version : Anthony1's guide to a kick ass gaming HDTV system for $180



Anthony1
06-03-2005, 05:15 PM
Anthony1's guide to a kick ass gaming HDTV system for under $200 out the door!!!!!



I have decided to make this guide for all the people that say that HDTV's are too damn expensive, and they would like to have a HDTV but can't afford one. This guide is meant to show the non-believer out there, that you can indeed afford a kick ass HDTV system! I have put together a system for you, that will allow you to play all your favorite games and devices on this HDTV. You can even play all your non HDTV devices on it! And the best thing, is that if you have any equipment that supports HDTV's, like a XBOX, or GameCube or PS2 or Dreamcast or Progressive scan dvd player or HDTV Satellite box or HDTV Cable box or HDTV tuner box, then you can hook that stuff up to this and experience it the way it really was meant to be experienced, on a real deal HDTV!

For under $200, out the door, you can put the whole deal together.

Now there is no excuse for you not to join the HD era!!! So Climb aboard!!!



Ok, here is the Anthony1 guide to getting a "Real Deal" Evander Hollifield HDTV experience for under $200 out the door. Now, let me first say, that what you are going to have is a 21 inch display device that can handle both 480p, 720p and 480i. You will have 2 nice quality speakers, (not the crappy ones that they put inside most stereo TV's) and a subwoofer, for a nice 2.1 sound system. And you will have all the plugs you need, to hookup every video device in your home that has a composite or better video plug. So you can use this with a Nintendo NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, Playstation, etc, etc, besides the latest high definition and higher resolution gaming systems. Plus you can also connect your DVD player to this, (especially good if you are using a progressive scan DVD player) So, we are talking the whole home theater experience. Basically look at this, as the best 21 inch HDTV money can buy. Now, I must admit that there are a few downsides. The biggest downside, is that this is not a widescreen HDTV. The second biggest downside, is that the connections are a little more complicated than a ordinary TV. But the end result, will still blow you away, and it is very much worth it to have this in your game room for only $180.33 out the door!


Here is what you end setup will look like: You will have a black 21 inch PC monitor as your main display. I recommend putting this on a TV stand meant for 27 inch TV's. You want the middle of the screen to be slightly above your eyeball level if possible. Now, connected to the back of this 21 inch Black PC monitor will be one VGA cable, that will go to a VGA Switchbox. The VGA swichbox allows 2 different VGA sources to be connected to the VGA monitor. You simply switch it to A or B, depending on what you are using. Now, on the A side, will be a Component to VGA cable that is connected to a Mad Catz Component HDTV System Selector switch box. The VGA side goes into the VGA Switchbox, and the component side goes into the Mad Catz Component HDTV System selector output connection. On the B side of the VGA Switchbox is a VGA cable that goes to the Upscan Converter Device. This is the device that you plug all your non HDTV equipment into. Like all your non 480p video game machines and your VCR and your non HDTV Cable TV box, etc, etc. It will accept composite or S-Video. So anything that has a composite plug or a S-Video plug can be connected to this. Now, you want to plug your HDTV capable items into the Mad Catz Component HDTV System selector, and your non HDTV stuff into the Upscan Converter. For sound, you will have the 2.1 gaming sound system with some nice decent quality speakers and a subwoofer. Basically plug in whatever source you are using for sound, into this device.

Here are the items you need, all currently available on Ebay:


21 inch black monitor ($65)

http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?/ViewItem&category=41807&item=5204601423&rd=1

component to VGA Adapter ($15.90)

http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?/ViewItem&category=64631&item=5779323925&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW


Mad Catz HDTV component switcher ($13.99)

http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?/ViewItem&category=20385&item=8196124769&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

2.1 Gaming Speaker System ($25.49)

http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?/ViewItem&category=88433&item=5586560241&rd=1


Upscan Converter for all non High Def sources like VCR, non progressive scan DVD player, non HDTV cable TV, non HDTV Satellite TV, Camcorder, N64, PSone, Saturn, SNES, Genesis, NES, etc, etc. ($49.99)

http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11319&item=8196204970&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW


VGA Switch Box ($9.98)

http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1748&item=5204345772&rd=1ssPageName=WDVW



All these items total up to $180.33, so you actually have 19.67 left over from your $200 limit. You can use that towards a XBOX High Def A/V pack. Or a PS2 component cable, or a Dreamcast VGA Adapter (note, if you are using a Dreamcast VGA Adapter, you might want to get a VGA Switchbox with more than 2 switches, so you can plug the Dreamcast VGA box right into that) Of course you can also order a Nintendo GameCube Component cable direct from Nintendo.



Ok, Please. Somebody take this challenge and put a system together like this. You don't have to use these exact components, but these components give you a good idea. This can be done for under $200. You can get a 2.1 sound system for under $25.49, you can get a Upscan Converter for less than $49.99, you can probably get a VGA Switchbox for a buck at a flea market. You can buy your 21 inch black PC monitor locally. Get a good quality used one for $65. If you save money on getting any of the other items for dirt cheap, then add that amount to the monitor. This is totally dooable guys! Come on, if you live somewhere, where you can rent a HDTV cable box for like $5 extra a month, you could be watching HDTV on this thing!!! Watch the NBA Finals between Miami and San Antonio in High Def.

WARNING - You must use HDTV devices that can either output at 720p or 480p. This setup will "not" play 1080i material. Most HDTV devices will convert 1080i to 720p if necessary. But check with your Cable or Satellite HDTV providers first before ordering equipment.


Also, you definitely want to try Amped 2 in 720p for XBOX as soon as you get this up and running.




Mods, if you would like to make this a sticky for a little while, that would be a great idea, because I know that tons and tons of gamers can benefit from this information.

jajaja
06-03-2005, 05:32 PM
Damn, you always make huge posts :) But it seems like a good guide. You didnt include shipping tho, might cost alot to send a TV and stuff.. not sure how the prices are over in the US.

Btw, those ebay links are 404

anagrama
06-03-2005, 07:07 PM
Yeah, but what about RGB? :D

icbrkr
06-03-2005, 07:17 PM
Yeah, but what about RGB? :D

You beat me to it ! :)

kainemaxwell
06-03-2005, 07:39 PM
I wouldn't sticky this- the links don't work.

slip81
06-03-2005, 08:07 PM
Yeah, but what about RGB? :D

Don't you mean "warm chocolate pudding?" :)

But really this is a cool guide, if I wasn't planning on buying a nice HDTV in the near future I would try this option out.

Sylentwulf
06-03-2005, 08:21 PM
Most people who would want or care for HDTV would not really find any enjoyment in a 21" monitor and $20 2.1 sound system. That's the problem. It's like watching 20 year old video games on a 25 year old 15" monitor just to see the startling warm chocolate puddin colors.

Anthony1
06-03-2005, 09:06 PM
Damn, you always make huge posts :) But it seems like a good guide. You didnt include shipping tho, might cost alot to send a TV and stuff.. not sure how the prices are over in the US.

Btw, those ebay links are 404


Actually it does include shipping. The monitor is $5, and the shipping is $60 anywhere in the lower 48 in the U.S.

All of those amounts include the bid price and shipping, for the total price.

Yes, this guide is more for people living in the lower 48 states.

kainemaxwell
06-03-2005, 09:07 PM
Damn, you always make huge posts :) But it seems like a good guide. You didnt include shipping tho, might cost alot to send a TV and stuff.. not sure how the prices are over in the US.

Btw, those ebay links are 404


Actually it does include shipping. The monitor is $5, and the shipping is $60 anywhere in the lower 48 in the U.S.

Yes, this guide is more for people living in the lower 48 states.
That would matter more to us if the links weren't 404'ed.

Anthony1
06-03-2005, 09:19 PM
I wouldn't sticky this- the links don't work.


I copied the URL's exactly, I don't know why they didn't work. For some reason when I posted them on here, a lot of information didn't show up in the post.

Here are the Ebay item #'s. If you go to Ebay and enter in these numbers, it should take you to the auctions that I was looking at.


21 inch black monitor ($65)

5204601423

component to VGA Adapter ($15.90)

5779323925


Mad Catz HDTV component switcher ($13.99)

8196124769

2.1 Gaming Speaker System ($25.49)

5586560241


Upscan Converter for all non High Def sources like VCR, non progressive scan DVD player, non HDTV cable TV, non HDTV Satellite TV, Camcorder, N64, PSone, Saturn, SNES, Genesis, NES, etc, etc. ($49.99)

8196204970


VGA Switch Box ($9.98)

5204345772

Anthony1
06-03-2005, 09:21 PM
I wouldn't sticky this- the links don't work.


I copied the URL's exactly, I don't know why they didn't work. For some reason when I posted them on here, a lot of information didn't show up in the post.

Here are the Ebay item #'s. If you go to Ebay and enter in these numbers, it should take you to the auctions that I was looking at.


21 inch black monitor ($65)

5204601423

component to VGA Adapter ($15.90)

5779323925


Mad Catz HDTV component switcher ($13.99)

8196124769

2.1 Gaming Speaker System ($25.49)

5586560241


Upscan Converter for all non High Def sources like VCR, non progressive scan DVD player, non HDTV cable TV, non HDTV Satellite TV, Camcorder, N64, PSone, Saturn, SNES, Genesis, NES, etc, etc. ($49.99)

8196204970


VGA Switch Box ($9.98)

5204345772

Anthony1
06-03-2005, 09:33 PM
Yeah, but what about RGB? :D


Well, the thing is, RGB is the best for all systems that can't display a 480p signal. That means everything pre-Dreamcast.

So when it comes to the N64, PSone, Saturn, Jaguar, 32X, Sega CD, SNES, Genesis, TG-16, Sega Master System, Neo-Geo, etc, etc, the best way to play them is on a RGB monitor with the corresponding RGB cable.

This guide is for a dirt cheap HDTV system for gaming for $180.

The idea behind this setup, is this is the unit that you play your XBOX, your PS2, your Cube and your Dreamcast on. And when you get a Xbox 360, this is the one to play that on too. Same thing with the PS3 and Revolution when it comes out.

Believe you me, when you see a game like Amped 2 or True Crime or MVP Baseball or Tony Hawk Underground or NBA Ballers or any of the other 720p XBOX games on this, you will have thoughts of the XBOX 360 dancing around in your head.

DeputyMoniker
06-03-2005, 10:00 PM
Good idea, dude.
On a side note, this is ESPECIALLY helpfull to those who enjoy PC gaming...they already have a lot of the equipment (probably better equipment too) and they're already used to gaming on a 21" screen. Everybody should share this idea with their computer geek friends. 8-)

jonjandran
06-03-2005, 10:02 PM
Not all of your prices are BIN's

The 21" monitor has a STARTING price of $5 with 5 days left.

There's no way you're going to get it for $5 :roll:
In fact this monitor sells for a MINIMUM of $75 used plus $70 S/H
And thats if you get lucky enough to win it that cheap.

Same with most of your other items.

So you should bump this up to a MINIMUM of $400 and for that amount you might as well get a 21" HD LCD.

Anthony1
06-03-2005, 11:52 PM
Not all of your prices are BIN's

The 21" monitor has a STARTING price of $5 with 5 days left.

There's no way you're going to get it for $5 :roll:
In fact this monitor sells for a MINIMUM of $75 used plus $70 S/H
And thats if you get lucky enough to win it that cheap.

Same with most of your other items.

So you should bump this up to a MINIMUM of $400 and for that amount you might as well get a 21" HD LCD.




OK, here is the thing. The Ebay examples, are just that. Examples. It's pretty damn easy to get a used black 21 inch PC Monitor for about $80 locally. You just have to go to look around at places that carry used PC items. Heck, you can find old computer monitors at flea markets and garage sales. But I personally found one for $80. And I could buy another one for $80 if I wanted to.

So you can definitely get a used 21 inch monitor for $80 if you look. The reason is nobody really wants CRT monitors anymore. All anybody cares about is the LCD ones. So if you are patient, you can get a really good used 21 inch monitor for dirt cheap.

The next highest priced item is the upconverter for $49.99. I have seen these devices for cheaper. They had ones in the playstation days that could take a composite or S-Video signal and they have a cheap line doubler built in to convert it to 640 x 480. Sure it doesn't actually really make the source look better, but who cares? It's just to be able to watch a VCR movie on it, or non-HDTV cable TV on it or whatever. You can probably get a cheapo one for $30 if you look around.


The next highest priced item is the 2.1 gaming speaker. You can actually get a better one than this for $25. There are tons of these available for auction, and tons of this particular one, and you can actually win this with 1 bid for the minimum price if you are patient. Or you can pay about $10 more and get one at Game Crazy, because they carry it there too. So if you have credit at Game Crazy, might as well get one there. The sound on these things is pretty damn good. Even has some decent bass. I heard these at a GameStop and the game was Midnight Club Dub Edition and it sounded damn impressive for just a little ass 2.1 system.


The next highest priced item is the component to VGA Adapter. I actually bought one for $12.95 from SF cable on Ebay before. Man, I should have bought a bunch of them, because it works perfect. I need one for one of my Dreamcasts, to hook it up to my living room HDTV. Anyways, since I bought mine for $12.95 (with shipping and everything) from SF Cable on Ebay, it seems that the prices are higher now. But if you are patient, you can definitely get one of these for $20. Basically, you just need one that will pass the 720p and 480p signal, and basically all of them will. You want one with a VGA on one end that will plug into the switchbox, and a male component on the other end to plug into the input slot on the Mad Catz HDTV Component System Switcher.


The next highest priced item is the Mad Catz HDTV Component System Switcher. This comes to $13.99 with shipping. I actually bought 3 of these things from GameStop awhile back. Their price at the time was $14.99. However, I have seen some places selling these for $29.99, so you have to look around to see who has it at the normal lower price. But you can definitely get these for $14.99 if you look around.


The last item was the VGA Switchbox. At $9.98 this is actually a total ripoff. You should be able to get a 4 switcher at a Flea Market or Computer parts discounter for a couple of bucks at the most. With 4 switches, you can hook the Mad Catz thing up to one, the upconverter to the other, the Dreamcast VGA box to the third one, and a HDTV reciever that has a vga out to the 4th one. (like a RCA DTC-100) Do a search on that, it's a very, very good HDTV reciever that you can get used for a decent price.


So let's re-take a look at more realistic pricing


1. 21 inch monitor - Should be able to find used, locally for $80 cash n carry.

2. Upscan Converter - should be able to find a cheapo gaming upconverter for $35. Maybe at a place like Fry's Electronics.

3. 2.1 speaker system - There are tons and tons of the these on Ebay. Find a good one with a low ship, and you should be able to find one that you can win on the minimum bid. You should be able to get one of these delivered for $30 or less. Well say $30 for the sake of argument.

4. VGA to component Adapter - you just need a basic one that will pass a 480p and 720p signal. That's it. Should be able to find one for $25 or less. Again, you have to be slightly patient.

5. VGA Switchbox - Should be able to get a 4 banger at a Flea Market for like $2 at the most. Let's just say $5 for the hell of it.


Ok, let's see what the total now is $80 + $35 + $30 + $25 + $5 = $175


$175 !!!!!


That's actually lower than my original estimate. And that is with a more expensive monitor and more expensive VGA to Component cable. So you still have $25 more wiggle room to stay under the $200 threshold.


I'm telling you, I could put this together for myself for $175, and you can too.


And I guarantee that anybody that takes a chance on this, and spends $175 will be totally blown away by the end result. If you have a XBOX and Doom 3, then you owe it to yourself to do this. If you have a XBOX and can get a cheapo copy of Amped 2 or MVP Baseball (both 720p games that look F'ing ridiculous), then you owe it to yourself to do this.

If you currently have a deposit on a XBOX 360, then you owe it to yourself to do this.


I would do it myself if I didn't already have 3 HDTV's in my house and two RGB monitors!

Anthony1
06-04-2005, 12:13 AM
Most people who would want or care for HDTV would not really find any enjoyment in a 21" monitor and $20 2.1 sound system. That's the problem. It's like watching 20 year old video games on a 25 year old 15" monitor just to see the startling warm chocolate puddin colors.


I have responses for both of your takes


1. can't find any enjoyment in a 21" monitor and $20 2.1 sound system


Ok, the thing is, you have to have the monitor at the right height. And then you have to sit the correct distance from it. But if you do get the thing at the right height, and if you do sit the correct distance from it, then you will be totally immersed into it's world. I'm telling you for real, dog. I have a 13 inch Commodore 1084 RGB monitor that will put 95 percent of all displays in existence to shame. "Ah gee Anthony, it's only 13 inches! That's soo small. How could you possibly enjoy that?" Well, let me tell you, it's only 13 inches, but if you sit the right distance from it, and you have it at the right height, it will totally immerse you into that RGB world. And this is coming from somebody that has a 113 inch Movie Theater screen in their damn Garage. So I know what the F, I'm talking about. By the way, don't millions of gamers play games on handhelds? Those are tiny screens, and it doesn't seem to impair them. This is a 21 inch screen we are talking about. It's basically the same screen as a 20 inch Stereo TV. Sure, a 20 inch TV isn't huge, but tons of people game on them with no problem. And you are putting this whole thing together for $175 freaking bucks out the door, so what the F do you expect, a freaking Plasma?



2. like watching 20 year old video games on a 25 year old monitor with a 15 inch screen in warm chocolate pudding


Well, you are a little bit off on that. First off, the oldest system that does RGB is the Master System. And I don't really recomend the Master system that highly in RGB, because it has so few colors on the screen that it doesn't really take advantage of RGB that much. So the RGB era, really started with the TG-16, Genesis, SNES & Neo-Geo. Those were the systems that started the RGB era. And it started in 1989. So in 2009, they will be 20 year old games. But not now. 25 year old monitor? My commodore 1084 monitor was manufactured in February 1991. A fine year I might add. So it is exactly 14 years old. So you are off 11 years on that one. 15 inch screen? Actually the 1084 has a 13 inch screen. Even smaller. But believe me, size means not. Take it from Yoda baby. Good things come in small packages.



So to actually answer your statement/question, Actually it is like watching 16 year old games on a 14 year old monitor with a 13 inch screen. Only it's much better. It's a 21 inch screen, and instead of a lower resolution in RGB, which is amazing by the way, this is progressive scan in 480p and 720p. I guarantee you, if I put this setup in your house and forced you to sit down and play Amped 2 and MVP Baseball on it in 720p, you would say, "where's the nearest ATM, I'll get you that $175, you are going to leave this thing here!"

Anthony1
06-04-2005, 12:34 AM
Good idea, dude.
On a side note, this is ESPECIALLY helpfull to those who enjoy PC gaming...they already have a lot of the equipment (probably better equipment too) and they're already used to gaming on a 21" screen. Everybody should share this idea with their computer geek friends. 8-)



This is a very good idea for PC gamers that also happen to have a XBOX and plan to get a XBOX 360. Or if they have a Dreamcast or PS2 (of course need the 480p PS2 games to take advantage of it) or a GameCube (again need the 480p GameCube games which luckily is the majority of the best games on Cube like Resident Evil 4!!)

Or if they would like to see the NBA Finals in HDTV but don't want to fork over huge dough for a HDTV. For the people that have a cable company like Comcast that offers HDTV, it's a really good idea. Because if you are already getting digital cable from them, you can switch to the HDTV cable box for like $10 more a month or less. It's definitely worth it, to check out HDTV on a trial basis.


Yeah, the great thing about computer junkies, they've already got a large VGA monitor, they already have the speakers, so all they need is the various adapters. The 4 switch VGA box ($2 at flea market or garage sale), the component to VGA cable ($25, or less for basic version that can pass 480p and 720p), the Mad Catz HDTV switcher ($14.99 at certain retailers if you shop around). If they wanted to actually use it as a TV as well, then they would need the upscan converter, but since they are also using this as their PC monitor, then they probably don't need the upscan converter, because they won't be using it as a regular TV.

so that is basically all they would need. So for them, they only need to spend $42 to be up and running. Of course they would also need to get a XBOX High Def component cable or a PS2 component cable or a GameCube component cable or a Dreamcast VGA box.


By the way, the cheapest of those is the PS2 component cable. I've seen the PS2 component cable on Ebay for like $10 (with shipping and everything) That's how much I paid for mine. It's a cheapo one, but it works great. The next cheapest is the XBOX High Def cable. The one from Microsoft is $19.99 on sale at places. But you can get a cheapo version that doesn't have the Dolby Digital Audio, it just has regular stereo, you can get one of those on Ebay for about $10 delivered as well. I got one myself for $10, for one of my setups. It's super cheapo, but again, it works fine. The next cheapest would be a Dreamcast VGA Box. They are kinda popular, but if you are patient, you should get one for $20 or less delivered. And if you are a Dreamcast fan, you need to slap yourself in the face if you don't already have a VGA Box. 95 percent of the Dreamcast lineup is 480p, and looks absolutely drop dead gorgeous. Jet Grind Radio anyone? And of course the most expensive one is the GameCube cable. I think it's like damn near $40 to get one of these. Of course if you have Resident Evil 4 or Metroid Prime 1 or 2 or plan on getting the new Zelda, you have absolutely got to have this damn cable no matter how damn expensive it is.

§ Gideon §
06-04-2005, 12:49 AM
:/ Why are you guys ragging on Anthony (kind of)?

I appreciate the guide, so thanks for posting it. I know HDTV is your forté, and people should be grateful for you offering to help them out.

As a side note: This setup sounds almost ideal for a dorm room...

Poofta!
06-04-2005, 12:54 AM
excellent idea man, i was actually about to ask how to connect hdtv stuff to my monitor, since i already have a great monitor and speakers, im definately gonna put that thing together, thanks for the post, greatly appreciated. you really put some effort into it to help people have fun. game on buddy.

Anthony1
06-04-2005, 01:00 AM
excellent idea man, i was actually about to ask how to connect hdtv stuff to my monitor, since i already have a great monitor and speakers, im definately gonna put that thing together, thanks for the post, greatly appreciated. you really put some effort into it to help people have fun. game on buddy.


Hey, if you get the necessary cables and stuff, and actually try this out, could you please post back about the results and maybe a few pics of the setup, and how much it cost you total to add the HDTV capabilities to your current setup?


It would do an awful lot to dispel the myth that this isn't as easy as pie and one of the best kept secrets out there.

Anthony1
06-04-2005, 01:04 AM
:/ Why are you guys ragging on Anthony (kind of)?

I appreciate the guide, so thanks for posting it. I know HDTV is your forté, and people should be grateful for you offering to help them out.

As a side note: This setup sounds almost ideal for a dorm room...


Yeah, actually it's perfect for a dorm room. Especially if your dorm roommate is a little rich kid with a 19 inch top of the line LCD with a super fast response time. Might as well put the little rich kids monitor to good use!

Sylentwulf
06-04-2005, 07:08 AM
hehe, yer funny :)

Swatty
06-04-2005, 11:49 AM
Anthony1's guide to a kick ass gaming HDTV system for under $200 out the door!!!!!


component to VGA Adapter ($15.90)



That is just a cable(even says so in the auction). I suspect the pinout is something like (Component color -> RGB Pin, not looking up pinout right now ) Y->Green, Pr->Red, Pb-Blue. (Friend's projector could handle RGB and component in via the same plug(said so in manual), used that pinout).
I think that most monitors are just going to give you a watchable signal with wrong colors when you use that.

But if you can get a monitor that can handle component being fed into it via that cable, great you don't have to spend another bit of cash to get a transcoder.
I got a transcoder for about $70(one of the cheapest I could find). They have component -> RGB and RGB -> Component transcoders, so make sure you go the right way. I've seen the transcoders from the low end of about $60 to beyond $1000, so you might have some luck watching eBay.

I have done something similar to what is mentioned with a monitor that had composite, s-video, and RGB inputs(so I didn't the upscan). On the RGB it could sync from 15-50 KHz, so I have tested (and verified) RGB directly from a Genesis (15.75KHz H-Refresh), and via the transcoder 480i from XBox/PS2/Gamecube/DVD Player, 480p from XBox/Gamecube/DVD player, 720p and 1080i from the XBox. Without the transcoder the colors were screwed up for the component signals.
Most monitors have a low end of about 30KHz, so you will need the upscan for the 480i and RGB(15KHz) signals. (480p is something like 31KHz IIRC).
And for prices, $70 for the transcoder + $150 for the monitor (27". I got it at a college surplus sale(classroom displays)) so for my display stuff I spent about $220.

SuperNES
06-04-2005, 12:02 PM
Yeah, but what about RGB? :D

Don't you mean "warm chocolate pudding?" :)



WTF is warm chocolate pudding?!?! i'm just gonna come right out and say it, i don't know what the hell it means. i can tell it's some type of substitute for "RGB", but i never knew RGB was a 'bad word' :angry:

Ed Oscuro
06-04-2005, 12:21 PM
OT a bit, but I've noticed eBay links are often b0rked, no matter how skilled in your copying one is.

Worst comes to worst...just get the item number and paste it into an eBay session, that should work.

Great gude, Anthony1, all that's troubling me there is the formatting. Break the posts up a bit so I don't have to stand on tiptoe for my eyeballs to be level ;)

I don't really like the idea of using a 21 inch monitor, as I'd rather have a 33 inch TV, but the difference between 17 and 21 inch monitors seems bigger than that between 21 inch monitors and 33 inch TVs...so it's still pretty viewable.

Anthony1
06-04-2005, 04:03 PM
I think that most monitors are just going to give you a watchable signal with wrong colors when you use that.

But if you can get a monitor that can handle component being fed into it via that cable, great you don't have to spend another bit of cash to get a transcoder.
I got a transcoder for about $70(one of the cheapest I could find).


Well, you have to have a multi sync monitor. Which 95 percent of VGA monitors sold after about 95 are. And you need a cable that will pass 480p and 720p.

The cable should send either a 640 x 480 signal or a 1280 x 720 signal, and the monitor should be able to sync to that without problem.

When you go into the XBOX dashboard, you need to set it to output 480p and 720p. Also set it for a 4:3 display, rather than a 16:9 display.

As for transcoders, well yes, they can be quite expensive. Cheapo ones can be had for as little as $50 or so, but they can get pretty damn pricey.

I'm not talking about a transcoder. I'm talking about a standard component to VGA cable. However, you do need a component to VGA cable that is capable of passing both 480p and 720p.


Also, when it comes to the Dreamcast, like I said before, instead of getting a 2 switch VGA Switchbox, might as well get a 4 banger. You can find them super cheap, so price isn't much of a concern. That way, you can plug your Dreamcast into one of the 4 slots, and if you get a used RCA DTC-100 HDTV tuner, then you can plug that into one of the 4 slots.

By the way, RCA DTC-100 HDTV tuners are normally meant for people with Direct TV, that want to get Direct TV HDTV programming, but you don't need to subscribe to Direct TV to use a DTC-100. It will work for over the air HDTV as well. So you can hook an antenna up to it and be watching the NBA Finals in HDTV on your nice new HDTV system setup.

At halftime, just click the switch on your VGA Switchbox and start playing Giga Wings 2 in 480p on your Dreamcast!

jonjandran
06-04-2005, 04:06 PM
WTF is warm chocolate pudding?!?! i'm just gonna come right out and say it, i don't know what the hell it means. i can tell it's some type of substitute for "RGB", but i never knew RGB was a 'bad word' :angry:

For a while here at the DP Forums , whenever someone had "RGB" in a post "Warm Chocolate Pudding" was put in it's place.

It was a joke because for a while there were a LOT of posts about RGB mainly by Anthony1. LOL

wberdan
06-04-2005, 08:02 PM
i already put a system like this together 2+ years ago, using a computer monitor as my gaming device.
it works pretty well on my end... cant vouch for the quality of that stuff you mention though.
probably woth a try

willie

boatofcar
06-04-2005, 11:53 PM
Anthony, I know that a lot of people give you crap for what they believe to be long and pointless threads, including some of the so-called modeators of these forums. I think you are one of the most valuable contributors to this site, and I encourage you to keep posting ideas like this. Thank you.

Lothars
06-05-2005, 01:16 AM
Sounds like an amazing way to get hdtv, damn o well maybe eventually i will go for that.

SkiDragon
06-05-2005, 02:45 AM
My only problem with this is the size. Find a monitor at least 25 inches and I would be all over this.

hydr0x
06-05-2005, 03:46 AM
1. 21 inch sucks for gaming, and don't start your "you gotta sit in the right distance to get immersed" crap again, i have been using 21' for years and one of the reasons i switched to console again was the small screen, you can't argue about that , it's TOO SMALL

2. you speaker setup is totally crap, the cheapest usable (=not so bad they make you cry) speakers cost around $45 for 2.1 but this would still be totally stupid. You want to improve gaming by using HDTV but on the other hand you don't want 5.1 ?? makes no sense to me, 5.1 is far more important for the "feel" than HDTV (and yes, i've both played and watched things on HDTV)

3. your calculation is wrong, as others pointed out, you won't get a 21 inch screen for anywhere around $5, you replied with "but you'll get one everywhere for around $80", well, then add that number to your calculation please. But still, a $80 21 inch screen is usually crap, you won't get one of the good screens that can handle high frequencys at the really good resolutions for that price

4. your setup is not true HD, as you should know, 720p is not the maximum HD has to offer, and investing money in a solution that only offers a part of HD is stupid once again, IF you want to a guide, then please either make a setup that supports the highest HD mode or at least TELL people your setup doesn't

5. having HDTV but no 16:9 is like using a cheap surround package without a sub, it makes no sense, IF you build up such a setup you want to be able to enjoy movies with it too, and you can't 100% enjoy movies with 4:3

hydr0x
06-05-2005, 04:06 AM
Or if they would like to see the NBA Finals in HDTV but don't want to fork over huge dough for a HDTV.

sorry but this is absolutely unrealistic, no NBA nerd would want to watch the Finals on a 21 inch screen, no matter if it's HD or not

Anthony1
06-05-2005, 09:08 PM
1. 21 inch sucks for gaming, and don't start your "you gotta sit in the right distance to get immersed" crap again, i have been using 21' for years and one of the reasons i switched to console again was the small screen, you can't argue about that , it's TOO SMALL

21 inches isn't a big screen TV, but dude, again, we are talking under $180 here. I guarantee that if I sat you a few feet in front of it, and had you playing Amped 2 and MVP Baseball for a few hours, you would totally forget what size display you are using. It's basically a 20 inch Stereo TV, but instead you get HDTV.



2. you speaker setup is totally crap, the cheapest usable (=not so bad they make you cry) speakers cost around $45 for 2.1 but this would still be totally stupid. You want to improve gaming by using HDTV but on the other hand you don't want 5.1 ?? makes no sense to me, 5.1 is far more important for the "feel" than HDTV (and yes, i've both played and watched things on HDTV)

You know, it's funny you mentioned this, because in today's Best Buy ad they have a very good 5.1 speaker system for $69.99 after instant and mail in rebates. The Logitech X-530 5.1 Surround Sound 6 Piece Speaker System. This takes the price up, from my example, but now you have full 5.1 experience to go along with the HDTV experience. And the way you make up the difference is by initially doing without the upscan converter. You can always get a upscan converter later, but just use the thing for now for stuff like XBOX, Cube (480p games), PS2 (480p games), Dreamcast, Progressive Scan DVD players, HDTV cable or satellite recievers, etc, etc. Basically without the upcan converter, you just use 480p or 720p items. Which is all you are going to want to use on it anyways! In November, the 360 will be on it, the vast majority of the time.



3. your calculation is wrong, as others pointed out, you won't get a 21 inch screen for anywhere around $5, you replied with "but you'll get one everywhere for around $80", well, then add that number to your calculation please. But still, a $80 21 inch screen is usually crap, you won't get one of the good screens that can handle high frequencys at the really good resolutions for that price

The $5 screen had $60 shipping, so the total was $65. And the $80 number was added to the redone calculation that actually ended up at $175! As for a $80 21 inch screen being crap, actually this is not the case. Everybody is moving to LCD to save space. But the CRT monitors will actually give you a much better video game and dvd picture than a lcd will. Sure that 21 inch monitor is going to be housed in a huge as case, that is going to make it seem as large as a 27 inch TV. But believe me, any of these monitors can display 480p with the greatest of ease, and if you get a more recent model with higher resolution, it can handle the full bandwidth of 720p as well. Just last week, I saw like 5 big PC monitors at Garage Sales that I went to. Probably could get those for like $50 $75 easily. People don't like the size of them, because they are using them as PC monitors, and they take up huge space on a desk compared to the now more affordable LCD screens. So people don't want these behemoths anymore. But they work great for a super cheap HDTV!!!!



4. your setup is not true HD, as you should know, 720p is not the maximum HD has to offer, and investing money in a solution that only offers a part of HD is stupid once again, IF you want to a guide, then please either make a setup that supports the highest HD mode or at least TELL people your setup doesn't

The maximum that HDTV has to offer is 1080p, but try getting that in a non lottery winning life anytime before 2010. So forget that pipe dream. Now, the best leftover is 720p and 1080i. 1080i resolves more visual information, but the end result is an interlaced picture with super high resolution. 720p resolves less visual information, but not by a huge margin, and most prefer the progressive scan image of 720p. Believe me, I've been into HDTV's since 1998. I actually had one freaking HDTV in 1998. I got by pure luck for $900, which at that time was like hitting the lottery. 720p and 1080i are pretty much the same thing and many people prefer the image of true 720p over 1080i. So it's all gravy.



5. having HDTV but no 16:9 is like using a cheap surround package without a sub, it makes no sense, IF you build up such a setup you want to be able to enjoy movies with it too, and you can't 100% enjoy movies with 4:3


What forum are you on? This is the video game forum. This device that we are talking about is a Gaming HDTV system. It is a Gaming HDTV System that you can actually have right now, with patience and some leg work on your part for under $180 out the F'ing door. That is what we are talking about.

Is this going to be a movie theater? No. Watch your damn movies in the living room. This system should be in your Room of Doom or your Den or whatever. That's where I would have this system. But I will agree that widescreen would be better, but to get widescreen, you jump into a whole new price range. You just can't do that for under $500, much less $200. You gotta pay like $549.99 at the least for a widescreen that does 480p and 1080 or 720p.

Also, you must consider the fact that when you are using the XBOX and PS2 and Dreamcast and Cube in 480p or better, these systems were designed in the 4:3 world, and the library's of these systems are 90 percent designed with 4:3 TV's in mind, and even the new systems coming out like the 360 and PS3 will both have special 4:3 modes, so the game will look fine on 4:3 displays as well. Widescreen is great for movies, but it isn't required for video games. It can definitely help certain games, but for tons of games a 4:3 screen is actually better.

For movies, yes, I wouldn't watch alot of movies on this thing. But I would watch sports in High Def on it. And concerts and shit like that. Live stuff in HDTV.

Anthony1
06-05-2005, 10:39 PM
sorry but this is absolutely unrealistic, no NBA nerd would want to watch the Finals on a 21 inch screen, no matter if it's HD or not



You've got to be kidding me.

For about 5 years during college all I had was a 20 inch stereo TV, and I did everything on that puppy. I played video games on it, watched movies on it, watched TV, VCR, etc, etc. And this was at various apartments with college buddies or close friends, and watching NFL games and NBA games and you name it.

I had a 20 inch stereo TV as my primary TV for like 6 total years, going back to high school and having one in my room as a senior.


So saying that no NBA Nerd would watch the Finals in HDTV on a 21 inch TV is just ridiculous.


How many families around the U.S. have a 20 inch TV in their living room, and they are doing just fine with it.

hydr0x
06-06-2005, 04:19 AM
21 inches isn't a big screen TV, but dude, again, we are talking under $180 here. I guarantee that if I sat you a few feet in front of it, and had you playing Amped 2 and MVP Baseball for a few hours, you would totally forget what size display you are using. It's basically a 20 inch Stereo TV, but instead you get HDTV.

for god's sake, please stop ignoring my arguments and reply instead of saying the same things over and over again

now, listen, i used to be a PC-only gamer and i always played games on resolutions like 1600*1200, so, basically, in my PC-years, i have always been playing HD. Now let me tell you, one of the main reasons i mainly switched to console was the size of the screen. So, i already had to chose between a 21' HD-screen and a bigger non-HD screen, and i chose the non-HD. So don't try to tell me again and again that i'm an idiot and should try it out. I have and my decision was clear. Now please, just accept that a lot of people don't want to game on such a small screen, it doesn't matter if you like that or not, but it is that way.


You know, it's funny you mentioned this, because in today's Best Buy ad they have a very good 5.1 speaker system for $69.99 after instant and mail in rebates. The Logitech X-530 5.1 Surround Sound 6 Piece Speaker System. This takes the price up, from my example, but now you have full 5.1 experience to go along with the HDTV experience.

sorry but this is still bs, not to mention the fact that this rises the price by another $45 (your "leave this and that out instead" argumentation doesn't work, you are fooling people with that), the Logitech X-530 is not bad for it's price, but it's not a "very good 5.1 speaker system", not at all. It just doesn't sound good enough for a lot of people, not to mention the fact that it doesn't have the connections you need to get 5.1 out of your standalone-dvd-player or your Xbox (and even for DPLII you will need to buy extra cables which adds to the price once again)



The $5 screen had $60 shipping, so the total was $65. And the $80 number was added to the redone calculation that actually ended up at $175! As for a $80 21 inch screen being crap, actually this is not the case. Everybody is moving to LCD to save space. But the CRT monitors will actually give you a much better video game and dvd picture than a lcd will. Sure that 21 inch monitor is going to be housed in a huge as case, that is going to make it seem as large as a 27 inch TV. But believe me, any of these monitors can display 480p with the greatest of ease, and if you get a more recent model with higher resolution, it can handle the full bandwidth of 720p as well. Just last week, I saw like 5 big PC monitors at Garage Sales that I went to. Probably could get those for like $50 $75 easily. People don't like the size of them, because they are using them as PC monitors, and they take up huge space on a desk compared to the now more affordable LCD screens. So people don't want these behemoths anymore. But they work great for a super cheap HDTV!!!!


sorry, i didn't notice the shipping costs, forget my comment about that ;)

but about the quality: i wasn't talking about those ~$70 screens being to big or anything like that, what i meant is that they are a cheap lousy PC screens that are in >95% of the cases NOT able to do the high resolutions with an enjoyable refresh rate, but that's exactly what's necessary to enjoy the higher HD-modes, please, don't fool people into believing they get a high-quality screen if they just buy some used 21' screen, it's not the case



The maximum that HDTV has to offer is 1080p, but try getting that in a non lottery winning life anytime before 2010.


huh??? we have a 3000 EURO TV at our store that handles 1080p, and that for Europe, as usual it should be available in the US for less, i guess around 2000 (every tech-stuff is cheaper in the US, with HD the difference should be even bigger), not to speak of the possibility to just use a beamer in your room of doom which is both quite cheap AND very good



So forget that pipe dream. Now, the best leftover is 720p and 1080i. 1080i resolves more visual information, but the end result is an interlaced picture with super high resolution. 720p resolves less visual information, but not by a huge margin, and most prefer the progressive scan image of 720p. Believe me, I've been into HDTV's since 1998. I actually had one freaking HDTV in 1998. I got by pure luck for $900, which at that time was like hitting the lottery. 720p and 1080i are pretty much the same thing and many people prefer the image of true 720p over 1080i. So it's all gravy.


well, this has nothing to do with 1080p, and as i said before, you should people let know if you are going to fool them into a not-really-HD-system instead of full-high-quality-HD-system which is what you were claiming



What forum are you on? This is the video game forum. This device that we are talking about is a Gaming HDTV system. It is a Gaming HDTV System that you can actually have right now, with patience and some leg work on your part for under $180 out the F'ing door. That is what we are talking about.

Is this going to be a movie theater? No. Watch your damn movies in the living room. This system should be in your Room of Doom or your Den or whatever. That's where I would have this system. But I will agree that widescreen would be better, but to get widescreen, you jump into a whole new price range. You just can't do that for under $500, much less $200. You gotta pay like $549.99 at the least for a widescreen that does 480p and 1080 or 720p.

Also, you must consider the fact that when you are using the XBOX and PS2 and Dreamcast and Cube in 480p or better, these systems were designed in the 4:3 world, and the library's of these systems are 90 percent designed with 4:3 TV's in mind, and even the new systems coming out like the 360 and PS3 will both have special 4:3 modes, so the game will look fine on 4:3 displays as well. Widescreen is great for movies, but it isn't required for video games. It can definitely help certain games, but for tons of games a 4:3 screen is actually better.

For movies, yes, I wouldn't watch alot of movies on this thing. But I would watch sports in High Def on it. And concerts and shit like that. Live stuff in HDTV.

sorry but this is bullshit, the whole quoted part, you are totally missing two facts

1. a very high percentage of the gamers does also watch movies

2. a very high percentage of the gamers would do that on the same screen that they play on

you can't argue that and keeping that in mind you just HAVE to find a HD-Setup that's enjoyable with games and movies, and such a system has to be 16:9 OR just use a beamer (which would have been the better way to get HD right from the start, why don't you write a guide about that? for people spending a few thousand a year on used games it should be very doable to get a beamer)


You've got to be kidding me.

For about 5 years during college all I had was a 20 inch stereo TV, and I did everything on that puppy. I played video games on it, watched movies on it, watched TV, VCR, etc, etc. And this was at various apartments with college buddies or close friends, and watching NFL games and NBA games and you name it.

I had a 20 inch stereo TV as my primary TV for like 6 total years, going back to high school and having one in my room as a senior.



you are wrong once again, just because you had a 20 inch TV and enjoyed NBA on it doesn't mean that big NBA fans want to watch the finals on such a screen, Sport fans have always been one of the first group to accept new technologys that improve their experience when watching their favourite game. So, a high percentage of those nerds already have HD, but more important, almost everyone of them has some big screen TV. And watching the game with 10 people on your couch just isn't enjoyable with a 21 inch screen, no matter how good the resolution is, they will always prefer a huge screen to a tiny HD screen.



So saying that no NBA Nerd would watch the Finals in HDTV on a 21 inch TV is just ridiculous.


of course that's ridiculous, and i didn't say it, everyone would prefer a 21' HD-Screen to a non-HD screen of a similar size, but believe it or not, a lot of the sport fans have huge screens, and for them, going down to 21' is a no-go




How many families around the U.S. have a 20 inch TV in their living room, and they are doing just fine with it.


what has that got to do with anything? you want to please gamers with your setup, not grandma who only watches Oprah

so, final conclusion:

i agree with you, HD is doable for less money than people think, BUT, not for what you are claiming, and this is also not the best way to go if you want to have a impressive price/value ratio.

you should redo this guide. Stop trying to force everyone into HD but instead select quality materials that people can actually enjoy for a while and be fair with them. If a part isn't good or could be better, tell them, if you don't get the highest HD-mode, tell me, if you don't get 16:9, make that very clear (ok, i'll admit you actually did that).

Such a Guide to HD is a good idea, but do it in a honest way and don't cheat with every 2nd part just to get a lower total cost. I'm sure people on these boards would invest another 100-200 bucks into the setup if it vastly improves the whole thing, and it would.

And you should also include other possibilities, like using a beamer as that could be a far better solution for people with a Room of Doom.

so, take this as positive criticism, work it into the guide and "republish" it and i'm sure the critics in this topic will be gone. (why don't you add it to the DP Knowledge Base after that??)

i'm looking forward to the next edition of your guide :D ;)

Anthony1
06-06-2005, 09:42 PM
hydr0x:


I could make a super long post, countering every retarded counter that you just did, but why?

From the comments that you have made so far, you obviously don't know very much about HDTV's and monitors and resolutions, etc, etc.

I had a 17 inch PC monitor, that I hooked up a RCA DTC-100 on it, and the video was absolutely incredible. There is no problem at all with PC monitors displaying HDTV visuals.


The main complaints that you have are all about the size of the TV and the fact that it isn't widescreen.

Well, I can't seem to convince you that you don't need a big screen TV to enjoy gaming.

As for widescreen, the actual reality is that widescreen from a gaming standpoint is pretty damn overrated.



The main point that you aren't understanding is that we are talking about $180 out the door. With tax and everything.

So think of it as a 21 inch HDTV that you could buy for $169.99 plus tax.

Because that's how much it costs.

For $169.99 you can't beat this display at all. It's impossible. The next price level that you would have to hit to improve this would be $425. And that would be for a $399.99 27 inch Samsung 4:3 HDTV. So you would only be gaining 6 diagonal images, but you would be paying almost 3 times as much.


This is a super duper Ghetto HDTV Special. I mean this is your freaking blue light HDTV special.

Bare bones, super cheapo HDTV, but it will work, and it will do the trick, and it's better than the vast majority of displays that you folks are playing on.

Sure if you have a big screen HDTV in your living room right now, then this isn't for you. This is for the people that are gaming on a crappy sylvania 25 inch color TV, or a 31 inch General Electric Wal-Mart super cheapo TV.

Even though you would be stepping down in size, the improvement to the picture would be F'ing ridiculous.

You keep knocking this idea. Over and over. Yet, if you saw Amped 2 in 720p on a 21 inch setup that I could create for less than $180 out the door, you would shit your pants.

Say what you say, but it is what it is.

pacmanhat
06-06-2005, 10:37 PM
Yikes, break it up you two...

Here's what I understand from this thread (and its ensuing argument): Anthony has presented a VERY barebones way of getting HDTV to work w/ gaming. It's not gonna be the greatest HD set up ever, it's just an affordable way to acheive some really impressive visuals. The $180 tag may or not be generous depending on where you live and how efficiently you can get the components and stuff. I'm also understanding Hydr0x questions the quality of the system being presented, but the quality isn't as much of an issue as the PRICE. It's not perfect, but simply a potentially very affordable solution.


...Right?

Anthony1
06-06-2005, 11:26 PM
Yes.


Exactly.



Lot's of people on these boards have been complaining about the so called "HD era" that Microsoft and Sony are talking about. Saying that it makes no sense, because HDTV's are still way too expensive, and they can't afford one, and the mass market hasn't accepted them, yada yada yada.


So I created a guide to get a pretty damn kick ass HDTV gaming experience for under $200 out the door.

That's what this is all about. Despite Hydr0x's complaints and whining.

SkiDragon
06-07-2005, 01:20 AM
Do they make 25 inch monitors?

hydr0x
06-07-2005, 03:29 AM
That's what this is all about. Despite Hydr0x's complaints and whining.

oh come one, please do yourself a favour and look up the meaning of the word, maybe you'll then use it right in the future

i'm not complaining, i'm critisizing, but you obviously can't handle that

see, the problem with your guide is, you do not tell the reader things he needs to know. As i said you've got two possibilities to improve your guide so it doesn't fool people anymore

1) Just tell them they are getting the crappiest devices and the worst HD-experience they can get

2) Just add another 100 bucks to the budget and exchange some components with that money so you actually got a decent HD-Set-Up instead of one that's just working

your goal obviously is to convince people of HD, which is good, because it is the future, but you're not helping yourself to achieve that goal if you tell them to pick up the first 21' monitor they find cheap. If they get one that does only 65Hz at 1280*1024 then they won't enjoy it and probably think HD sucks, which of course is wrong.



From the comments that you have made so far, you obviously don't know very much about HDTV's and monitors and resolutions, etc, etc.

I had a 17 inch PC monitor, that I hooked up a RCA DTC-100 on it, and the video was absolutely incredible. There is no problem at all with PC monitors displaying HDTV visuals.


you got a lot to learn about monitors obviously

1) I never said they can't display HDTV x_x

2) listen and repeat LOL "not every 21' monitor is the same"

3) in case you haven't understood it yet, there are 21' monitors that are absolutely crap, it doesn't help you if it's 21' but the first resolution the screen can display without to o much flickering (and/or sharp enough) is 1024*768 or even 800*600. And yes, there are quite some cheap 21 inch monitors that are that bad, there are even some that always look bad, no matter on what resolution

4) just because one 17' monitor looked good doesn't mean they all will, but how can i expect you to tell people about this if you don't seem to understand it yourself, despite claiming being the uber-expert for all kinds of technology



I could make a super long post, countering every retarded counter that you just did, but why?

pleaaaassseee do me a favor and reply to my complaint about the 5.1 set, i really want to see how you can classify that as a "retarded counter" (man, your choice of words is excellent indeed LOL )

Anthony1
05-13-2006, 11:15 PM
Can the mods please move this to modern :)



I'm jump starting this thread again, so the peeps in the new HDTV thread can know that there is a very cheap ass way to get your hands on a HDTV experience for super cheap.


By the way, I'm going to work on a brand new guide, because in just this short period of time, things have rapidly changed in what could be done with a cheapo gaming display.

bangtango
05-14-2006, 12:04 AM
Reading this thread from start to finish, I'll say you put some good ideas out there, Anthony.

Forget the critics. If you have ideas like that, keep right on posting what you think whether people like it or not. That's their problem, not yours. One or two people who complain don't speak for every last gamer out there. Then again, neither do I but if it is ok for everyone else to put in their two cents, then I can.

As someone who is on a budget can appreciate, having some ideas like you posted sure helps. It's what the forums are for. Myself, I'd rather spend my disposable income on good games. That is what it is all about. Your topic makes sense.

21" works for me, since I used to be a snot-nosed little kid playing Atari and Intellivision on 13" tv's. I use 21" today and that doesn't make me any less of a gamer.

The readers who didn't like your post and wanted to argue it may have better ideas about what type of set-up to play games on. So what? Let's see them post those ideas then.

With that said, when did everyone forget the most important thing? The games! Having the best set-up doesn't mean a thing if you don't have the games to go with it. Playing "Beethoven" on Super Nintendo or "Kasumi Ninja" on Atari Jaguar ain't gonna be any damn better on a big monitor with top-of-the-line speakers.

Setting up a good game room I'll be happy using your guide and using the money I save on games :evil:

Anthony1
05-14-2006, 12:41 AM
Reading this thread from start to finish, I'll say you put some good ideas out there, Anthony.

Forget the critics. If you have ideas like that, keep right on posting what you think whether people like it or not. That's their problem, not yours. One or two people who complain don't speak for every last gamer out there. Then again, neither do I but if it is ok for everyone else to put in their two cents, then I can.

As someone who is on a budget can appreciate, having some ideas like you posted sure helps. It's what the forums are for. Myself, I'd rather spend my disposable income on good games. That is what it is all about. Your topic makes sense.

21" works for me, since I used to be a snot-nosed little kid playing Atari and Intellivision on 13" tv's. I use 21" today and that doesn't make me any less of a gamer.

The readers who didn't like your post and wanted to argue it may have better ideas about what type of set-up to play games on. So what? Let's see them post those ideas then.

With that said, when did everyone forget the most important thing? The games! Having the best set-up doesn't mean a thing if you don't have the games to go with it. Playing "Beethoven" on Super Nintendo or "Kasumi Ninja" on Atari Jaguar ain't gonna be any damn better on a big monitor with top-of-the-line speakers.

Setting up a good game room I'll be happy using your guide and using the money I save on games :evil:



Hold on a sec, don't buy anything yet, cause I'm going to update that guide. Alot of the information has slightly changed from the original post that I did. I'm working on the updated guide right now, and I hope to have it ready tomorrow or Monday. It should be quite helpful to anybody that is thinking about this.

I re-read that whole thread, and some of the info is outdated and not entirely accurate, so I'm going to revise some stuff, and improve some stuff. I'm also going to provide some slightly higher quality options (certainly slightly higher priced too) that some people might want to consider as well.

So check back tomorrow or monday. This will hopefully be moved to the modern forum as well.

Hep038
05-14-2006, 12:43 AM
Anthony 1, I appreciate the post. Some "know it all's" on this site have nothing better to do but to search through the boards to find other people's mistakes or ideas they disagree with and insult them for it. Calling their ideas "stupid" but never offering one of their own. You actually contribute to this site in a positive way, unlike most whom seem to only provide negative material. To everybody else lighten up, and get over it. x_x

Moo Cow
05-14-2006, 12:54 AM
Thanks for doing a great service, Anthony.

GrandAmChandler
05-14-2006, 01:22 AM
Can the mods please move this to modern :)


You got it sir Anthony!

-Moved-

Anthony1
05-14-2006, 01:39 AM
ok guys, I'm working on my new guide, and this is just the very beginning of it, it's a work in progress like many of the games shown at e3, and I'm still working on it, but I thought that I would post what I have so far for the people that might be interested. Don't make any rash purchasing decisions based on this yet, cause I haven't finished it. I've only done some work on the video side of the coin, and I haven't even touched audio yet, and I'm not completely done with the video side yet either....

Anyways, this is what I have so far...............






WORK IN PROGRESS




I'm creating a brand new guide for how to make a kick ass HDTV system for cheap. The reason why I decided to do it, is because of a recent thread in the Modern Gaming forum titled "How many people here don't have a HDTV ?". Alot of people in that thread have the same take that many people do, that HDTV's are just too damned expensive, and that they will get one at some point, but not anytime soon. It's the same old story that I hear over and over, and the main reason I here it over and over, is because most people don't have any idea that there are some really cheap options out there to create an incredible gaming experience. My new guide is going to feature 3 different level of displays. It's also going to feature 3 different levels of audio. Obviously, the 3 levels of displays and audio setups are going to be in three different price ranges. Things are going to go from super cheap, to moderate, to slightly pricey, but super powered. You can pick and choose which level you want to use based on available budget. Maybe you want to go with the higher end video setup and a lower end audio setup, or vice versa. While it's true that you get what you pay for, it's also true that there are incredible bargains in quality and price out there, that 99 percent of people miss out on because they are totally unaware of that option.


First off, we are going to start with the display. What your eyes see. Obviously, what you see on the screen is a very big part of the experience. You can have an unbelievable audio setup, but if you are watching it on some really crappy display, the whole thing is compromised. I honestly think that many times audio can have a bigger impact, but if we are talking strickly gaming, sometimes the display can actually be the bigger impact. Audio is still very important, especially with more modern systems (like systems that have 5.1 ability), but the display is always a key factor.




1. Super Cheapo Display - 21 inch PC Monitor - $65 - Ok, for the super cheapo display, I'm still going to have to stick with my original idea of a 21 inch PC Monitor. I mean, 65 dollars, is 65 freaking dollars. We are talking super cheapo here, so you have to make some concessions. As for the price, two words, Used......Craigslist. You get it local, and you don't pay shipping. You can get a very good one at a Garage sale or Flea market for even less than $65. In fact, you can even get these for free!!!!!! Some states are charging disposal fees for old CRT monitors, and people don't want these gigantic things taking up space in their Garage. They don't realize that they can be used for things other than PC monitors. Ok, so now after we have to come to an agreement that you can actually get one of these for $65 or less, let's talk about the quality of the display. You'll remember that I said there were concessions to be made. Well, there is. First off, it's not widescreen. This is somewhat dissapointing, but it's extremely hard to get a widescreen display that can do a decent 720p or 1080i signal for less than $300 ish or more. I know that there are widescreen lcd's out there in small sizes for pretty cheap if you go the craigslist route and get it locally, but to be honest with you, lcd isn't a very good display technology for video games and movies. It's less than ideal. Despite the fact that everybody is going LCD with their computer monitors, CRT's will give you a better display for fast moving images like video 95 percent of the time. To get a decent lcd, you need a super fast response time, like 8 ms or less. Those can be quite expensive, so forget about lcd. Ok, so you don't have widescreen, and the size of the display is only 21 inches (probably 19 or 18 viewable). But basically, what we are talking about here is a 20 inch 4:3 HDTV for $65 or less, so beggars can't be choosers. The small size is countered by the fact that you will sit the correct distance from it, and have it at the correct high. You should sit about 3 feet away from it, and have the middle of the screen slightly above your eyeball level.


2. Moderately Priced Display - 30 inch 16:9 Direct View HDTV (720p and 1080i compatible) - $350ish - With the moderate priced display we are going to jump into the category of widescreen 16:9!!! Yep, it's about time. Since this is the era of the Xbox 360 and PS3 and Nintendo Wii, might as well go widescreen and be up to par with the way HDTV content should be viewed. (yes I know the Nintendo Wii is going to be 480p only, but it will have widescreen format options and all the Wii's at e3 were hooked up to widescreen displays running 16:9 480p images). So the big downside from the Super Cheap Display is gone, cause we are going widescreen 16:9. Ok, now, obviously we still have to stay very low priced. Which means we have to basically get a dirt cheap 30 or 32 inch widescreen CRT HDTV. Hopefully we can find one that does both 720p and 1080i. There are a number of low cost 16:9 crt HDTV's out there. Wal-Mart had one that was discontinued that they were blowing out for super, super cheap, but I'm sure they are all gone now, but you can check Wally World anyways and see what they have. Just check with them and see what the lowest priced 16:9 HDTV's they have in the 30 inch range. Or you can try craigslist. For example, in the San Francisco area I found these two 30 inch 16:9 HDTV's for less than $330. http://www.craigslist.org/nby/ele/160565732.html and http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/ele/160353846.html . These are used, but to get a really good deal, sometimes you have to go used. Occasionally, I have seen some quality 30 inch 16:9 Direct View HDTV's going for $399.99 at various stores as closeouts. If you have a Costco, see if Costco has a $399.99 special. Or Fry's Electronics, or a open box at Best Buy. Getting a used one via Craigslist locally, is probably the best bet. That first link for that 30 inch Sanyo is a damn good deal if that thing works decently, so anybody in the Bay Area should give that guy a visit and see if it's really up to par. Take a 360 over there and hook it up to it, and see if it's proper. Regarding quality, obviously, this is very small widescreen set, so again, this is a bedroom/room of doom/ home office type setup. Not likely to be your main living room deal, unless you live in a small apartment or something, but we are talking about $350 ish. Pretty hard to get a larger HDTV unless you get into the $600 or so range, and that is a whole different ballpark. Still, I have a 30 inch HDTV in my computer room, and if you sit the correct distance from it, the picture is absolutely striking, and it's actually the best HDTV display that I have. My xbox 360 and DVD movies look better on it, than my other two HDTV's. IMPORTANT!!! - if possible, try to get one that has a HDMI or DVI (HDCP enabled) input. These plugs, (HDMI especially) make it somewhat future proof.


3. Slightly Pricey, But Super Powered Display (option 1) - Infocus SP4805 DLP Projector - $600 (used) $100 for screen (DIY) - $700 total - Ok, now this is stepping up to a whole new level. An actual front projection display. The thing about front projection, is that you can get a display that is absolutely huge, and incredibly powerfull, but there are some definite issues that have to be taken into consideration. No.1, Front Projection isn't for everybody. No.2, it's going to require some work on your end to get things up and running properly, and it's not going to be easy at first. No.3, there might not be a suitable room in your house to try this, or your Girlfriend or wife might not let you. Rather than going into a long explanation about Front Projection, I'm going to provide you a link to an old topic of mine, when I talked about the joys of getting my X1 projector and making my own screen, etc, etc. Here is is.... http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37063&highlight=120 Now, that projector is the Infocus X1, and you can sometimes find these for about $400 used on craigslist, but for only $200 more, you can track down a Infocus 4805 which is a true 16:9 DLP projector. Other than that, they are virtually the same. It's a big advantage to have a true 16:9 projector though, because of the much shorter throw distance needed for the same size 16:9 screen. This is very helpfull to anybody that doesn't have a huge room to work with. Also the resolution is higher on a 4805 in it's native 16:9 display, then a X1 that is using a 16:9 mode. It's not a huge difference, but worth mentioning. As for the screen, there are some easy ways to make your own DIY screen for under $100. My screen cost about $50 in paint plus some labor on my part. Again, read that other thread and you will get a very good idea if Front Projection is something you can try. The key factor is that nothing can quite come close to playing Burnout Revenge on a 113 inch 16:9 screen. You can do that with front projection, and you can do that for $700 or even $500!!!!!! It just takes some skill and some effort and some patience. And of course the right room and a understanding wife or girlfriend.


3. Slightly Pricey, But Super Powered Display (option 2) - 50 inch (or 51 or 52 inch) Rear Projection HDTV set - $700 (used) - This is option No.2, because there are going to be people out there that simply can't do Front Projection due to the fact that you need to have a room where you can control the lighting when you need to use it, and you also can't use a small room, the room has to be somewhat big to do front projection. So with this option, we are going with the best big screen HDTV in the 50 inch range that we can get for $700 used. Now, trying to get a decent 50 inch HDTV for $700 or less used is kinda hard, and it will definitely take some patience, and you absolutely have to get it locally. Or within driving distance and you need to be able to borrow somebodies truck. But there is shit out there. Ideally, you would try to find one that can do both 720p and 1080i (especially nice if the 720p isn't downscaled to 480p like the Sony that I have), and you also really, really, really, really want a HDMI or DVI (HDCP enabled) input on the back. It's not so much crucial right now, but could be very, very, very crucial if the PS3 ends up being your preferred system in the future. Also, if in the future you really get into either HD DVD or Blue Ray DVD movies. Other than that, you just want a decent set for the price. Now, some of you might be wondering where the hell can one get a big ass 50 inch or bigger HDTV for only $700. Well, the bottom line is you have to go with a used one. Craigslist is the best option, another option is your local classified adds, and even Ebay although you would need to find somebody local that is selling one on Ebay. Remember, if somebody is selling a used item for $1000, they are probably expecting to only sell it for $700. So you want to look at stuff that people are selling for more than $700 and then offer them $700 and see if they will bite. Alot of times money talks and bullshit walks. But I would check Craigslist for HDTV's that are in the 50 inch or larger range for a grand, see with the model # is, check the net for the specs and reviews, and then if it's one that you want to make a run at, offer the dude $600 for it. Then when he says, "Hell no, I paid 2 grand for this". Then you offer $700. Or come to his house to see it, with $700 in your pocket. Look at it, and say.... "You know, it's pretty nice, but I only have $700, any chance you'd be willing to take $700 for this?". You'll be suprised how many people will gladly take $700 for something they are trying to get a grand for. I would look for items priced all the way up to $1300 and make offers at people. But before you make your offers, be sure to get the model # and do some research on that model. Stay way from some of the really cheap Panasonics. Make sure to read some online reviews. And also make sure the TV is legit and working well, and buy it from somebodies house, where the guy owns the house and you can return to that house if you had to. Don't buy it from some cracked out apartment. If you can take a Xbox 360 with you, and actually try it out in 720p or 1080i, then that is a big bonus. Ask the guy to see some HDTV content on it. Also ask to see a DVD on it.


WORK IN PROGRESS

zerohero
05-14-2006, 04:35 AM
Hey Man awsome guide. I thought about doing this when I heard about it a while back, I guess I'll go about doing it.

zerohero
05-14-2006, 04:42 AM
1. 21 inch sucks for gaming, and don't start your "you gotta sit in the right distance to get immersed" crap again, i have been using 21' for years and one of the reasons i switched to console again was the small screen, you can't argue about that , it's TOO SMALL



I grew up playing on a 12 inch monitor that you can see on the HDTV thread below this one. A 21 inch monitor is almost spoiling me for now, the size of the tv is subjective. I see your points, but it's still subjective.

bangtango
05-14-2006, 01:26 PM
Wasn't buying anything yet, just mainly keeping it in mind, Anthony1!!!!!! All I did was write down some of the stuff you mentioned in the guide as a reference, but I can easily change it. Don't worry 8-)

Zero:

Grew up on a 12" monitor? I guess I wasn't the only one with a puny tv to play old games on. So that makes two of us then LOL

I had to play Atari 2600 (and Odyssey 2) on a 10 or 12 inch black-and-white tv until I turned seven or eight, since it was the only one I had permission to game on. Remember those people called parents x_x Then I graduated to the 13 inch color tv I mentioned above. Fun memories.

Part of the problem was I wasn't an only child and shared a bedroom. It was 4 of us using that one tv.

Muscelli
05-14-2006, 02:42 PM
thanks for the sweet post, I may just end up using ur advice :D

Damion
05-14-2006, 03:21 PM
It's to bad the links are dead :(

I think I'm going to give this a shot here on my next pay day though thanks :D

zerohero
05-14-2006, 03:44 PM
Wasn't buying anything yet, just mainly keeping it in mind, Anthony1!!!!!! All I did was write down some of the stuff you mentioned in the guide as a reference, but I can easily change it. Don't worry 8-)

Zero:

Grew up on a 12" monitor? I guess I wasn't the only one with a puny tv to play old games on. So that makes two of us then LOL

I had to play Atari 2600 (and Odyssey 2) on a 10 or 12 inch black-and-white tv until I turned seven or eight, since it was the only one I had permission to game on. Remember those people called parents x_x Then I graduated to the 13 inch color tv I mentioned above. Fun memories.

Part of the problem was I wasn't an only child and shared a bedroom. It was 4 of us using that one tv.

Yea 12 inch monitor man, I was lucky when I switched to a 20 inch since my sister wanted a smaller tv in her room for some reason, but once that tv tube burned out I had to get the small one back, and I've never went out and got a new tv for years. I might use my dads tv in the living room every now and then, but you know that gets old.