Genesis Model 1 A/V Question.....

[Damaramu]

I just picked up a model 1 Genny from Goodwill today for $4.99, but it didn't come with power supply or a/v cables.

Now, I used to have one many, many moons ago and I've always used an RF adaptor so I'm a little fuzzy when it comes to Genny 1's a/v.

Looking at Ebay, all I see are MONO a/v cables for sale. Is the Genny 1 incapable of producing stereo sound, like it's Genny 3 successor?

What model number A/V do I want to use for my Genny 1? @_@

[Lost Monkey]

I just picked up a model 1 Genny from Goodwill today for $4.99, but it didn't come with power supply or a/v cables.

Now, I used to have one many, many moons ago and I've always used an RF adaptor so I'm a little fuzzy when it comes to Genny 1's a/v.

Looking at Ebay, all I see are MONO a/v cables for sale. Is the Genny 1 incapable of producing stereo sound, like it's Genny 3 successor?

What model number A/V do I want to use for my Genny 1? @_@

The Gen 1 produces beautiful stereo sound, but it features only mono on the A/V jack... you'll have to either use the headphone jack for slightly distorted stereo sound or hack a pair of RCA jacks into the beastie.

[SuperShark]

Lost Monkey is correct that only mono A/V cables exist from Sega for the Genny 1. I would also recomend using A/V for better picture and then using headphones or computer speakers (or any of many other alternatives) in the headphones jack to get the desired stero sound. If you are willing to mod existing Genny 1 A/V cables, or search the web to find some at very high prices, then I guess you could have dule mono sound so both speakers are used. I guess you could also hook up a 32X to the system if you can find the right adaptor and get stero/double mono that way. Goodluck though in whatever you do!

[Logicdustbin]

I don't think the mod prices are that bad (ok, so I do it and sell them myself :P ), D-lite has some nice Genesis 3's that have the mod done... I am sooo tempted to buy one (because I have never seen a genesis 3 in the wild)

This is one of mine that I'm selling (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Logicdustbin/125_2539.jpg) how-ever, if you are handy with a soldering iron, this mod isn't that bad to do yourself.

also, you can buy a phono jack to RCA adapter for all of $3, and this will give you stereo sound from your TV or stereo/

[Moon Patrol]

From the pinouts I have seen, the DIN jack on the back of the model 1 genny does have left and right stereo, just the original cable wasn't wired for it. Either that, or a majority of the sites I use to reference are wrong.

[omnedon]

I do the SVideo/stereo upgrades as well. www.oldschoolgamer.ca and sell the standard cables on my Sales page also.

AFAIK, there is No Stereo from the rear AV DIN of the Genny 1. With the mod, if you ever use a SEGACD, the stereo mod allows you to skip the SEGACD mixing cable as well.

http://www.oldschoolgamer.ca/syspics/14-106.jpg

http://www.oldschoolgamer.ca/syspics/14-113.jpg

[Lost Monkey]

@Omnedon: Have you found Gen 2's with the Sony chip in them (for S-video) or are you adding a chip/circuit? All the Gen 2's I have found (over the years) have a Samsung chip with no S-video capability...

[omnedon]

Nah. No magic bullet there I'm sorry to say. I'd guess one in 5 Gen2's can go S-Video. Too bad too.

I took a quick look at the datasheet for the samsung chip, and it doesn't look to good for a mod. At least within my understanding. If someone could come up with a way, we would all rejoice! LOL

[FABombjoy]

It seriously isn't possible, not without a team of scientists that get shrunk down in a tiny hi-tech ship and fly into the core of the chip and rewire it. But at this point were talking about a substantial budget with no hope of reclaiming losses by selling the media rights since it's a pretty lame subject to make a movie about.

[Lost Monkey]

It seriously isn't possible, not without a team of scientists that get shrunk down in a tiny hi-tech ship and fly into the core of the chip and rewire it. But at this point were talking about a substantial budget with no hope of reclaiming losses by selling the media rights since it's a pretty lame subject to make a movie about.

I'm sure it would have its own (albeit limited) audience. LOL

I bet if you piggy-backed the necessary input lines to a capable chip, you could pull it off - but from what I have seen, the chips are not easily attainable and can usually only be found in Saturns, Gen 3's and a couple of the Playstation revisions...

[rbudrick]

So the Gen 1 can be modded for stereo (or you can use the RCA jacks).

So is there a pin that isn't being used on the Gen 1's din or something (someone seemed to indicate this above)?

If so, instead of drilling holes in the case for RCA jacks, can't you just wire that unused pin and then use the real stereo din cables?

-Rob

[Lost Monkey]

So is there a pin that isn't being used on the Gen 1's din or something (someone seemed to indicate this above)?

If so, instead of drilling holes in the case for RCA jacks, can't you just wire that unused pin and then use the real stereo din cables?

-Rob

There are only 8 pins on the Gen 1 A/V port...

1. red
2. green
3. blue
4. sync
5. composite video
6. ground
7. mono audio
8. 5v

(not necessarily the correct order)

[john_soper]

@Omnedon: Have you found Gen 2's with the Sony chip in them (for S-video) or are you adding a chip/circuit? All the Gen 2's I have found (over the years) have a Samsung chip with no S-video capability...
I got one, the trick is to look through the holes on the bottom. If the motherboard and shield don't go all the way across, it's a late model gen2 with the Sony chip.

[Lost Monkey]

@Omnedon: Have you found Gen 2's with the Sony chip in them (for S-video) or are you adding a chip/circuit? All the Gen 2's I have found (over the years) have a Samsung chip with no S-video capability...
I got one, the trick is to look through the holes on the bottom. If the motherboard and shield don't go all the way across, it's a late model gen2 with the Sony chip.

Thanks! That is good to know.. I usually pass up a few Gen 2's every week, as I am sick of getting the Samsung chips...

[omnedon]

jsoper:

I'm looking at my modded gen2 right now, and an unmoddable one rightnow, and can find no difference. If you can help me spot it, I'l take a pic and post it for everyone...

Underside is identical. Serial on the unmoddable one is 640062755. MADE IN TAIWAN.

The one with the SONY chip is 743313212 . MADE IN CHINA.

[SuperShark]

omnedon, I think I know what he is talking about. Look at the bottom of a few Genesis II systems. Look through the tiny holes, or slits, in the systems caseing. You will notice that on most of the systems (and by most I also mean the majority of the Genny IIs that can't be moded) have the circit board, and therefor that metal plate that surounds the circit board, extended almost all the way to the edge of the casing. Some systems, however, the golden '1 in 5', will have a smaller circit board and metal static shield leaving about an inch between the end of the board and the edge of the casing.

My theory is that as Sega had found whatever new technologies and methods to make such a smaller board, they noticed the system soon coming to an end. The age of 32-bit was aprocing, and the 32X just wouldn't cut it! In hopes of making just a little bit more profit while some people may still be buying the system, they decided to come out with the model 3. They decided to remove the expansion port to make it even smaller, and then they sold this final Genesis system. All theory of course, but makes since doesn't it.

I even opened my model 2 recently that has the smaller board, and while it has been a little while since I opened the other, older type of model 2, I think I found the chip that is suposed to be from Sony, as in I found a chip not from moterola where I thought I remembered the moterola chip being. It was from sanYo i think, I will chceck and get back to you later on the company. I am a beginer, I will confess, when it comes to moding the insides of the systems, and I would like to look and make sure I am looking at the right chip, and if I am (which I will confirm or disprove after I get some help locating the correct chip) I would like to know if this chip from another company has anything to do with, well, anything!

Hope I helped you a bit omnedon, and now I hope someone can help me figure out what is up with the chips in my system!

Game ON!

[D-Lite]

This discussion would be much better if people used the chip ID. The Sony chips that can be modded for S-Video are the CXA1145 and the CXA1645. The "other" chip is a KA2195D and it is definitely possible to mod for S-Video, BUT you will need to install another chip or a video encoder like the JROK. I say it is possible since you can pull RGB from the unit. The KA2195D does not output Luma or Chroma.

Regarding determining what Gen 2 has the CXA chips or not, there is no way of determining that without opening the system. I have opened at least 20 Genesis 2 systems and both the full board and the small board can have either chipset. And there are at least 5 different board revisions, several with each sized board.

And while I'm here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~ddragoli/images/Gen1SM.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~ddragoli/images/Gen2SM.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~ddragoli/images/Gen3SM.jpg

[john_soper]

Regarding determining what Gen 2 has the CXA chips or not, there is no way of determining that without opening the system. I have opened at least 20 Genesis 2 systems and both the full board and the small board can have either chipset. And there are at least 5 different board revisions, several with each sized board.

OK, sorry if I mislead anyone but I saw that "short board" tip posted on usenet once and it worked for me on a flea market purchase. I still think you'll have much better odds finding the Sony chip on a short gen2.

[The Manimal]

How is S-video with the Sony Genny 2? I like my Genny 2 the best for it's appearance, how it matches the Sega CD 2 as well as the 32X. Plus stereo outputted and
lack of the headphone jack. But one thing I've noticed between this and my Genny 1s THROUGH A/V ON BOTH, is that text looks better than on the Genny 2. Albeit a SOFTER image overall, there is less uh...distortion? of the picture. Play SMS Choplifter on either Genny. The text is nice and normal looking on a Genny 1, and on the Genny 2 it's wide and choppy looking. Actually, the whole picture is choppy looking sorta on the Genny 2, though it's really only noticeable on things like text. I think I can also see vertical lines ala top loading NES. I don't see any of this on the Genny 1, and text looks okay. I am not sure if it just has to do with SHARPNESS on the unit. SMS Choplifter as well as Mega Man: Wily Wars look much better on the Genny 1, though different titles seem to look better on either or... Does the S-vid mod on either version add/remove any of these issues?

[phreak97]

if you are happy with just using the din metal shielding for ground, you could rewire the din and the av cable and use the specified ground pin as right audio, but i like to have my ground pin. another alternative would be to sacrifice the composite sync, lots of monitors accept composite video for sync, and if you absolutely need to, you can build an external converter box to get composite sync from composite video anyway, using an lm1881 sync separator. i can sell you those pretty cheap if you need. the schematic for the seperator circuit is on gamesx.com.

so, if you free up one pin, it can be done.

[gcl1984]

whats the big deal about using a stereo mini plug to rca adapter from radio crack(or makin one).
s-video is the only way to enjoy your genny,unless your lucky enough to have a nice rgb monitor.

[anagrama]

unless your lucky enough to have a nice rgb monitor.

*insert compulsory gloat about our lovely RGB-capable European TV's* ;)

[The Manimal]

Speaking of Genny 1s...


Are there any compatibility issues between the pre-lockout and lockout versions? From what I understand, the lockout versions won't play some early games...but what about the pre-lockout version? I am having thoughts of downsizing and getting rid of the lockout one.. It's about space, not money...and they look virtually the same.

[gcl1984]

I have a copy of Double Dragon that won't play on me 1st edition genny.I also have a copy that only plays on my 1st edition.Thats the only cart that was incompatible with the "pre lockout" version that I've come across.I guess Ballistix made a 2nd version to play on newer systems, but its strange that it wont play on the 1st one.

[SkiDragon]

I am attempting the Genesis 2 S-video mod now. I will post my results.

[SkiDragon]

I havent taken any pictures yet, but I did the s-video mod on my Genesis 2 and it works great, plus I added a dumb blue LED while I was at it. I am also using the stereo RCA jacks from the Sega CD, which I didnt realize could be done. I suggest this mod for everyone. I found all the parts I needed at Moyer Electronics. Its hard to find the ECG85 transistor suggested for this mod, but the NTE85 is equivalent.

[Lost Monkey]

I havent taken any pictures yet, but I did the s-video mod on my Genesis 2 and it works great, plus I added a dumb blue LED while I was at it. I am also using the stereo RCA jacks from the Sega CD, which I didnt realize could be done. I suggest this mod for everyone. I found all the parts I needed at Moyer Electronics. Its hard to find the ECG85 transistor suggested for this mod, but the NTE85 is equivalent.

Which RGB encoder chip was in your Gen 2? (I am guessing it was the CXA1645...)

[SkiDragon]

No, it was a Sony CXA1145. Supposedly they are rare in the Genesis but I found one in the first Genesis I opened.

[Lost Monkey]

I have opened at least 5 and not found one that doesn't have the Samsung chip... :/

[Elusive]

Speaking of Genny 1s...


Are there any compatibility issues between the pre-lockout and lockout versions? From what I understand, the lockout versions won't play some early games...but what about the pre-lockout version? I am having thoughts of downsizing and getting rid of the lockout one.. It's about space, not money...and they look virtually the same.

The 'lockout chip' used by SEGA post-July 1992 is the TMSS - the TradeMark Security System. It's designed to lock out pirate cartridges, not region lockouts (as opposed to the 10NES chip used by Nintendo to lock out all non-compliant carts). It does this by searching for the word 'SEGA' in part of the game's header, the part of the game that tells the console what's plugged in. And, of course, SEGA patented this. The problem is, a small number of early releases which were designed for non-TMSS consoles have nothing but garbage in their header, as the Mega Drive didn't require a valid header to run properly. Codemasters releases are notorious for this, as are a few early EA releases. So, when the TMSS chip looks for 'SEGA' but finds nothing but rubbish, it won't run the game, assuming it's an unlicensed pirate.

Just out of curiosity, what did the Mega-CD's mixing cable actually do?

[gcl1984]

Just out of curiosity, what did the Mega-CD's mixing cable actually do?
It takes the stereo signal from the headphone jack on the front of model 1s and inputs it to a jack in the back of sega cd.Then you get your audio from 2 rca jacks on the sega cd.I'm guessing the system mixes sound genarated from software with streaming audio from the cd and outputs it though the rca jacks.Maybe the model 1 doesn't have the stereo signals on the expansion port.