Announcing the launch of www.hardcoregaming.org

[Kamino]

Announcing a new gamers site and board at www.hardcoregaming.org !!!
This site is being slapped together by myself, VACRMH, S1lence, Jed, and a few other dp'ers. I was hoping to modify the forums a bit before launch...but installing phpBB mods makes me want to shoot myself. (I have a new level of respect for Spasticfuctard. Now I understand why he's so damn crabby all the time...)
Anyhoo, read the front page and hurry on to the forums at www.hardcoregaming.org/boards .
I apologise for the lack of front page articles; I lost a bit of work in a power flicker. I have a few up though. I'll also add ANYONE is welcome to submit any amount of gaming related articles of their own writing and I WILL post them. The most i'll do is weed out F bombs and l33t sp33k.
I invite you to join....as does the rest of the hardcoregaming.org team. Oh, and i must once again thank s1lence, who is the main funding source behind this site. (i'm just stuck with the head admin job.."lucky" me :P)

[Kamino]

I do apologize for any errors in my linking when i originally posted this. I was tired.

[Cauterize]

Chris Chris Chris... no offence but you need some help on your web designing...

and that is where i am willin to offer my service to you, i can talk more on MSN about it to you, however if you are curious as to what im like.. here is a template i made for my mates band...

http://www.retrogamedepot.com/bandlayout/kittyhawk.htm

I can design, however i cant do all the PHP and that stuff (im an Art student remember, we dont have much knowledge past designing :P)

If you would like some help/me to build you a layout you can use then just drop me a line on MSN!

Adam

[Jibbajaba]

Chris, I like you, but as soon as I went to the front page I was turned off. It's full of more of those absolute statements you make about games and gaming that make you look like an ignoramus.


There are two types of people in the retrogaming world. One type, is the kind that buys massive amounts of crappy games. They stick them on the shelf, and obsess over having a "complete collection" for a system. They might orgasm over an extremely rare, yet extremely unplayable game. Rarely does this type play most of their games; they may play some current stuff, but most of it sits.

Aren't you going for a complete VB collection?


A really shitty game that happens to be rare isn't worth much here. It's rare for a reason - it sucks.

And here's what I'm talking about. There are a LOT of rare games that are quite good. This is just like your deal about how "real men don't read manuals."


There's a great site and forum for that kind of stuff over at Digital Press.

And that's where I'll be. :P

Chris

[Ed Oscuro]

Hell yeah! I'll be over in a few!

Congrats on the public offering :)

[Kamino]

@ Adam; I'll speak to you about web design on msn later. I'll admit, HCG is a bit crap hazard atm; I lost some of my better coding in a power flicker; but i DID use the same stylesheet as templeofinsanity.
Jibba; I chose VB to finish off because i have quite thoroughly enjoyed every damn game I've played for it.
I'll have to edit the rare statement tho.....For every "good" rare like Aero Fighters or Zero the Kamikaze squirrel, there is a damn near unplayable r9/10 like 2600 gauntlet.
to anyone else, welcome.

[hydr0x]

uh yeah, advertising a site on DP that states DP sucks is quite rude, isn't it??

if you don't like people going for complete, fine, ignore them and do your own thing, we are not dissing you for NOT going complete and calling yourself a collector too, people should accept each other and not bash... that said, i see no need for another gaming forum... but i will give yours a try after it has filled up a little bit

[s1lence]

Ok, we are getting slammed after being up and not offically up for about umm, 3 days. This forum isnt designed to compete with digitpress, I think its another offering for people to talk about playing games. Not everyone is a Uber collector, but I think many of us here are game players. Give it time, its new, and hey we all still love dp too.

Oh and in responce to Hydr0x, i do think there is always room for another "good" forum. I love the press, its introduced me to a ton of people. I'm not here to dis on collectors, I just want to offer something to people that play. ign, gamefaqs etc are full of garbage. I want to give something new to the gaming community thats all.

[Kamino]

uh yeah, advertising a site on DP that states DP sucks is quite rude, isn't it??

if you don't like people going for complete, fine, ignore them and do your own thing, we are not dissing you for NOT going complete and calling yourself a collector too, people should accept each other and not bash... that said, i see no need for another gaming forum... but i will give yours a try after it has filled up a little bit
I'm not bashing dp.
I Said DP is a great place for collectors.
I'm not the greatest communicator. I merely wanted to get across the point that hardcoregaming is for GAMERS, and I once again attempted a bit of humour in the process......DP is a GREAT place for Collectors.....it's become clear to myself and the other organisers though, that dp is definitely more of a place for COLLECTING, and less for GAMING. So our idea was to create a place more focused on GAMING, and less on COLLECTING.
Hrm. Find a place on either templeofinsanity.com or hardcoregaming.org that says DP SUCKS. you won't find it .
To anyone (who has a username that is not hydr0x) who took offence, I apologise.

[hydr0x]

Ok, we are getting slammed after being up and not offically up for about umm, 3 days. This forum isnt designed to compete with digitpress, I think its another offering for people to talk about playing games. Not everyone is a Uber collector, but I think many of us here are game players. Give it time, its new, and hey we all still love dp too.

Oh and in responce to Hydr0x, i do think there is always room for another "good" forum. I love the press, its introduced me to a ton of people. I'm not here to dis on collectors, I just want to offer something to people that play. ign, gamefaqs etc are full of garbage. I want to give something new to the gaming community thats all.

well, we didn't start the comparison, i absolutely see why you'd want a gaming forum instead of a collecting one (and i actually feel diving the gaming forum here into 2 might be worth considering), the problem is Kamino compared the sites basically saying "if you don't like what's going on on DP, this is the place for you", and posting a link to a site stating that on DP is rude imho

[The_EniGma]

Ill lend a hand on forums and shit. I know PHP and HTML pretty well and im ok at photoshop (bit rusty on flash) catch me on on irc as bxn` if u need help.

[s1lence]

I suppose it wasnt clairified enough in his first post as to what the dislike was. So I'm sorry for that as well.

[hydr0x]

ok kamino thx for clearing that up, you should really remove the line about DP to not confuse others ;)

[suppafly]

Ok, we are getting slammed after being up and not offically up for about umm, 3 days. This forum isnt designed to compete with digitpress, I think its another offering for people to talk about playing games. Not everyone is a Uber collector, but I think many of us here are game players. Give it time, its new, and hey we all still love dp too.

Oh and in responce to Hydr0x, i do think there is always room for another "good" forum. I love the press, its introduced me to a ton of people. I'm not here to dis on collectors, I just want to offer something to people that play. ign, gamefaqs etc are full of garbage. I want to give something new to the gaming community thats all.

well, we didn't start the comparison, i absolutely see why you'd want a gaming forum instead of a collecting one (and i actually feel diving the gaming forum here into 2 might be worth considering), the problem is Kamino compared the sites basically saying "if you don't like what's going on on DP, this is the place for you", and posting a link to a site stating that on DP is rude imho


I think you need to grow up, or learn to read. What Kamino said was "There's a great site and forum for that kind of stuff (collecting) over at Digital Press. They have great forums running over there - for buying and selling, and gaming related discussion."

As many other things in life...if you dont like something, then dont use it. No need to get childish about this.

[s1lence]

No need to get childish about this.

I agree completely.

[demen999]

I'm also up for offering help on the design. Me and cauterize taking over design? lol 8-)

Check out my site in my profile (even tho it isnt finished).

[pacmanhat]

I just registered for the forum. I'm looking forward to something being there I can post in! :P

And, for the record, I like the idea of a forum based on those ideals. I have nothing at all against completism or anything like that, but I just don't fall into that archetype.

[digitalpress]

What on earth gives you guys the idea that this site is about "completism"?

DP is and always has been about GAMING. Retrogaming whenever possible.

The fact that retrogaming attracts collectors doesn't mean that our charter is exclusive to collecting, and it certainly isn't about "completism".

We have game reviews on the most recent of games. Check out the PSP section. We have an arcade that has nothing to do with collecting right here in the forums. We have DP WIRE that notifies our community about new releases.

You're way off base on your assessment of what DP is. I'm really disappointed that you'd categorize us that way after being here for so long.

In any event, best of luck with your new site.

[Jibbajaba]

I guess maybe that's what was bothering me about it. I don't understand what it is that we don't provide here. The vast majority of posts and content here is about gaming, both retro and current. Sure, some of us (including myself) are more collectors than gamers, but I think that most of the people here are the opposite. I think it's just that I don't understand what it is that you guys want that you aren't getting here. Do you not feel that you can talk about 'hardcore gaming' here?

Chris

[Lothars]

I registered but honestly I think dp does all of that and more i mean we talk about all types of games here from old to brand new

but it seems not to bad and we will see

[Kamino]

gahhhhhhh....
I seem to have started a bit of TROUBLE.
1) My statements were based on comments in this thread, and the sentiments of myself and the HCG team after reading it:
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=62403&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
And those similar that myself and the hardcoregaming administation has seen in recent months.
2) Since I have become VERY tired of internet wars, I have discussed the matter with the administration of hardcoregaming.org , and all statements have been eradicated from the front page.
3) An official apology has been issued on the front page, and I shall repeat it here. I sincerely apologise for toes trampled upon. I really didn't want to start shit, I just wanted to start a new cool site based more on the gaming side than the collecting side, based more on game playability value and less on rarity value.....oh crap, i'm doing it again. I'm gonna shut up now.....
Oh. one more thing. Cauterize, anyone else, I'm quite satisfied with my coding preferences. Thanks anyway. If you wish to offer PHPBB help, do let me know.
As for said PHP, All PHP errors are now cleared. I suck at PHP mods, and am going to leave it alone for now..

[Ed Oscuro]

Well, I gotta say that I know Kamino didn't mean any harm; he certainly didn't mean to have come across that way. At worst this is what, a Forum-war equivalent of the Johnny Turbo ad? Haha.

But seriously, I do share his sentiment about turf.

If this was coin collecting (and well, I do that too, a little bit with my change), I would say "the more the merrier," because you find coins in your pocket change. So having more people looking = lower prices (theoretically) and more finds for the rest of us to possibly share in.

With games, though, if you're just keeping some games and don't plan on playing them, well, I dunno. I'm OK if you've got a plan to donate them somewhere for the good of society, but gaming penis wars are nuts.

That's not representative of DP, but we do have our share of that nonsense about just buying games to have them (I actually have a few systems that I've bought just to *have,* such as the boxed Sharp Twin FC). I see why those guys have a common interest in this issue, but that's mostly being a bit frustrated with a certain type of gamer.

[Gamereviewgod]

We have game reviews on the most recent of games. Check out the PSP section

Yes, you should all do that now.

Then come back to the debate.

Thank you.

;)

[s1lence]

Ok, this is my last post in this topic as its been beat to death. I for one just wanted to give people a choice. Yes I understand there is other pages out there. I love DP, its my retreat during the day, well that and #vbender. Game on, regardless if you collect to collect or collect to play. :D

[JJNova]

We have game reviews on the most recent of games. Check out the PSP section

Yes, you should all do that now.


My DS will crush your PSP in size alone!

[TheRedEye]

This website takes "retrogaming" to a whole new level by having a web design modeled after the most popular sites of 1997. A+++++ would visit again.

[lendelin]

Kamino, I'm aware that you wanted to set your site apart from others in order to make it interesting, and, well, lets say your statements were 'unfortunate.' ;) You didn't mean any harm.

What bothers me about your statements is a big misconception about collecting that doesn't do justice to collecting and this site.

You draw an artificial line between gaming and collecting which simply doesn't exist; and this site refelects it.

Gaming is collecting and collecting is gaming. They re-enforce each other.

There are more games out there than every 'pure' gamer can have at the time they come out. Were you never in a game store as a kid or adult and wished you had game X or Y and maybe even all of them? In every game enthusiast lurks the potential collector.

Do you think that the vast majority of collectors aren't interested in playing games? Because of limited time budgets, one has to come at the expense of the other, but the vast majority of collectors learned to balance both.

Every game that a collector buys is bought under the aspects of GAMING. A terrible, almost unplayable game is interesting for its bad game design. An average game might be interesting as a prequel to a well improved series and therefore has historical significance, etc. Every little louzy game released is a little part of game history and game design, and therefore it is almost natural for game enthusisasts to go for as many as possibe within their time budgets, financial budgets, and energy they are willing to invest according to their preferences.

You say most games of huge collections just sit on shelves. That is true. But they sit there for a reason: they are waiting to be PLAYED wheneever the collector likes to play them and/or there is need for him to play them. Collecting is about maximizing your options and choices. It is about playing and about the interest in games.

I'm glad that this site is about gaming and collecting alike which are intertwined anyway, and the DP site shows it in many facets. A collector which has an overlooked or not so common game of the past or present can tell me about this game; and this sparks interest in me as a wannabe collector and GAMER.

This site is about gamers who happen to have lots of games (=collectors) who can put modern games in the tradition of older games because core designs didn't change dramatically and always work; they can do that BECAUSE they have collections.

Gaming is the focal point of this site, older games and newer ones, and because most of us are game nuts there is a lot of talk, information, and discussions about how to get them: and that means collecting.

I just can't see the separation line you drew.

Your statements are extreme because they are based on a very small extreme minority: the collector who never plays or isn't even interested in games and collects for collection sake. This guy is as rare as a NWC cartridge.

[hydr0x]

@lendelin

as much as i'd like to agree with you, you are just wrong. I know people owning games absolutely NOT for gaming. And i think i must inlcude myself in that category too. While you are right about the majority of games being bought for gaming, or at least to have to chance to play them some day. That's absolutely not true for every game i buy. Hell, do you really think i'll EVER pop in Madden NFL 96 for SNES longer than a few minutes to test if it works?? no way, sorry!

[The_EniGma]

hydr0x is right.

As for me im a hybrid, all of the games i collect i will get round to playing some day but for now i just collect collect collect. If there is a game i "thnik" is rare i wil lbuy it and play it if its good. But even if its rare doesnt mean ill play it, eg any sport game. No no no no way no thankyou.

[lendelin]

@hydrox and enigma:

I rest my case. Both of your statements confirm what I wrote, they aren't contradictory what I said about gaming and collecting:


...or at least to have to chance to play them some day. That's absolutely not true for every game i buy. Hell, do you really think i'll EVER pop in Madden NFL 96 for SNES longer than a few minutes to test if it works?? no way, sorry!


If there is a game i "thnik" is rare i wil lbuy it and play it if its good. But even if its rare doesnt mean ill play it, eg any sport game.

Just ask yourself WHY you buy a game you won't play right away, or a game you never expect to play. WHY? The answer you'll give has EVERYTHING to do with gaming, nothing else. Ask yourself WHY you collect. It has everything to do with gaming.

No matter if you go for genres you enjoy, genres you don't enjoy, individual games you like to play or not to play, complete collections, genre collections across systems, no matter what, at the root is gaming, and that means the OPTION to play whatever you wanna play whenever you want to play.

Game collections (or for that matter game libraries, I don't know what the difference is; age of the games? the number of games?) are gamestores of the past and present avid gamers want in their homes. This gives them options to play, to discover old 'new' games which sat on the shelves for years unnoticed which they might enjoy now.

The relationship between a collector/gamer and the collection/game library is like a good marriage -- you develop and grow together over time.

[hydr0x]

and that means the OPTION to play whatever you wanna play whenever you want to play.


NO, see, you are ignoring what i said, i WILL NEVER EVER play that damn Madden game, and i did NOT buy it to have the possibility to play it, i will never ever touch it again other than for moving it around or something like that, and i knew that when buying it

sure, this is only true for a very small percentage of MY (<<< very important LOL ) collection, i buy most stuff to play it or have the option to play it some day, but not everything. BUT i know for a fact that that percentage is much higher for others, up to the point of 100% where people do not even own a single console through their life and STILL collect games, it's like stamp collecting, it's pretty to look at the boxes and cover-art...

[lendelin]

and that means the OPTION to play whatever you wanna play whenever you want to play.


NO, see, you are ignoring what i said, i WILL NEVER EVER play that damn Madden game, and i did NOT buy it to have the possibility to play it, i will never ever touch it again other than for moving it around or something like that, and i knew that when buying it

sure, this is only true for a very small percentage of MY (<<< very important LOL ) collection, i buy most stuff to play it or have the option to play it some day, but not everything. BUT i know for a fact that that percentage is much higher for others, up to the point of 100% where people do not even own a single console through their life and STILL collect games, it's like stamp collecting, it's pretty to look at the boxes and cover-art...

I understood that you have no intention NEVER EVER to play it. My Q is then: WHY did you buy it? (if your answer is to have more SNES games, I ask again: WHY? If your answer is to have a complete SNES game library, I ask again: WHY? If your answer is just for collecting, I'll ask again, you guessed it, WHY?)

If you answer the Q honestly, you'll see that the reason has everything to do with gaming.

[Flack]

Bummer, hate to see you guys having conversations elsewhere. I don't really understand the point of it (as there are thousands of GAMERS right here) but best of luck to y'all. You know where to find us if you get lonely!

[anagrama]

Does the "Collector vs. Gamer" arguement really have to be thrashed out again? It's been done a thousand times before and there's no clear-cut division since 95% of people fall somewhere between the two extremes anyway.

[hydr0x]

. My Q is then: WHY did you buy it? (if your answer is to have more SNES games, I ask again: WHY? If your answer is to have a complete SNES game library, I ask again: WHY? If your answer is just for collecting, I'll ask again, you guessed it, WHY?

ok, you answered every question except the last one for yourself...

let me first add that we are talking about 5% of my collection here, if not less, everything else is there for gaming or for being able to play it

so essentially you are asking, why collect something just for collecting?? actually, you can't ask that, if you question collecting things just for collecting them, then you are basically saying, stamp collectors, card collectors, coin collectors and so on do not exist or at least do not have a reason to collect. All of the things those people collect have no purpose whatsoever other than looking good, i admit, a few stamp collectors collect for preservation, but most of them do to fill their free time, get nice looking sets and so on. their collection is of absolutely no use, just like the 5% of mine we are talking about... we are just lucky that games are actually something USABLE you collect, but you don't have to use them do collect them...

for why i get those 5% i don't actually want for gaming related reasons?? well, there are quite a few arguments, they differ from game to game of course... here are some examples

- If i want and get 95% of a systems library for other reasons, why not get the remaining 5% just to complete the set??

- It just sucks to have every Zelda game (example) but not the 3 CD-I games, i might never get a CD-I and never play those games, but i want them for a complete Zelda set so it looks good in my room

- Oh, so i have every single Tecmo 16-Bit game, but i'm missing Tecmo NBA Basketball for SNES, no, i have dozens f other NBA games, and this one ain't special, i see no need to ever play it, in fact, i WILL never play it, BUT, as it is the last Tecmo game missing, heh, i'm getting it

but anagrama is absolutely right, if you don't understand why anyone would collect just to collect, that's your problem, but millions of collectors (coins, stamps...) do it, accept it or not, it's just a little special for games to be collected just for collecting because you can or could actually use them, contrary to most other things people collect

[Arcade Antics]

NO, see, you are ignoring what i said, i WILL NEVER EVER play that damn Madden game, and i did NOT buy it to have the possibility to play it, i will never ever touch it again other than for moving it around or something like that, and i knew that when buying it

sure, this is only true for a very small percentage of MY (<<< very important LOL ) collection, i buy most stuff to play it or have the option to play it some day, but not everything.
But without realizing it, you're agreeing with lendelin here. :)

Why did you buy that game that you'll never play? Because it's a game. Because you enjoy playing lots of games. That's what got your collection started in the first place. :)

If you had bought 1000 games and never played any of them, that's another story. But since you started out playing everything and sort of morphed into a position over time where there are certain games you buy for the shelf with the express intent of never playing them, it's still all about playing the games.

In short, you're collecting games because you enjoy playing games. But that doesn't mean you have to play them all.

I bet that you do play Madden 96 some day though. Because it's a good game. ;)

[XxMe2NiKxX]

...Wow, this is the dumbest case of people not listening and the most solvable by reading something over instead of just ignoring it and posting the same crap over again I have ever seen.

[anagrama]

People in glass houses...

[ClubNinja]

People in glass houses...

...shouldn't walk around in their underpants.

[Kamino]

People in glass houses...

...shouldn't walk around in their underpants.
Confucius say man who live in glass house, pee in basement.

[lendelin]

so essentially you are asking, why collect something just for collecting??

Nah, I asked why are you collecting! My position is the extreme opposite, namely there is no collecting for collecting sake unless someone needs psychiatric help.

Therefore all of the following...


so essentially you are asking, why collect something just for collecting?? actually, you can't ask that, if you question collecting things just for collecting them, then you are basically saying, stamp collectors, card collectors, coin collectors and so on do not exist or at least do not have a reason to collect. All of the things those people collect have no purpose whatsoever other than looking good, i admit, a few stamp collectors collect for preservation, but most of them do to fill their free time, get nice looking sets and so on. their collection is of absolutely no use, just like the 5% of mine we are talking about... we are just lucky that games are actually something USABLE you collect, but you don't have to use them do collect them...

...don't apply. Coin collectors, stamp collectors, wastebasket collectors all collect for a good reason. And so do you, because...


It just sucks to have every Zelda game (example) but not the 3 CD-I games, i might never get a CD-I and never play those games, but i want them for a complete Zelda set so it looks good in my room


Why does it suck? You 'just' don't want to complete a set for completions sake. You don't look at your Zelda games and say "oh well, lets just add another one or three, becasue I added so many games anyway.' A minor reason is that it looks good in your room, aesthetics are always important to different people to different degrees, but why do the ZELDA games look good in your room? If you want a nicer room, you could put a poster of Zelda or Nena on the wall.

The reason is that you are interested in Zelda games, you played them, and one day you heard and read about the unfortunate CDI Zeldas. OH MY, a piece of game history right there, and you're such a game nut that you realized you missed it! You buy them not in order to play them, but you buy them for game related reasons:

- is Link really so funny drawn in these games? (comparing them to the regular Zeldas)

- are these games really so bad? (comparing them to the regular Zeldas)

-maybe I get one day a CDI and can actually look at them, don't wanna play the games, but at least look at them.

-I will never ever play these games, I swear to GOD! ...but, God, it is great to possess a pice of game history; I mean, is THIS is the result of the deal N made with Phillips?

-maybe I play these terrible games anyway, just in order to see if they fare so badly compared to the other Zeldas.

I could think of a lots of other reasons, and I could do the exercise with every example you gave.

One misunderstanding: I talked about GAMING RELATED reasons as the driving force of collectors; you equate them with actually PLAYING games. That is nuts; a huge collection of ten thousand games cannot be played by an individual like a small section of a an average sized library cannot be read book by book by an individual.

I talked about the maximization of options for game collectors as avid gamers which an impressive game collection delivers. An option for the gamer to play whatever he likes, whenever he likes.

This is independent of the intent to play or not to play a game on the shelf because the option includes just to let a single game sit on the shelf until he dies. He may plug it in, he might not. He has the CHOICE of playing 500 NES games. He has many more choices than I have becasue I have a mere 50 NES games.

We have to get away from the simplistic collection for collection sakes; there are reasons that we collect GAMES and not pens, laptops, or beerglasses; a beerglass collector has also lots of different reasons to collect what he collects and not games.

The thrill of the hunt is also important for collectors, but it is not an end in itself; otherwise they could hunt deer.

The mindset of a collector is one of a playing (!) game nut who is so interested in games that the curiosity naturally spreads: from games and genres he likes to play to games and genres he doesn't like for the sake of their historical significance (which is game related);

more importantly, there are overlooked games and changing pfereferences over time of the gamer; at one point he couldn't care less about a game or an entire genre, and then he discovers them and enjoys them. The one who has a lot or maybe even all games doesn't miss out. In my case, I rented back then and didn't like F Zero for the SNES. Today I'd love to have the game becasue GT3 turned me into a racing nut, and I play F Zero GX and would like to compare them to the games on the SNES and N64. I also would like to have Rad Racer which I found boring back then.

I had to write something about sky and sea games, and I had to ask someone to borrow me 'In the Hunt' becasue I didn't have it; (it is on my list for two years, but I was just too lazy to get it all this time) there is no telling that one day we two Europeans might even discover and like Football games and not only soccer games; if you have a big collection, you can play them; if you don't, you might regret one day that you don't have this chioce. (Like you, therefore I picked up online around ten traditional sports games for the current consoles from $3 to $5 just last week; with no intention to play them) The often heard sentence 'you can't have too many games' makes sense.

Various motivations of collectors are game related, and in the end playing related; that does by no means mean that every single game should be played or will be played. A big collection gives you more choices, it is as simple as that.

The misconceptions are at the heart of kaminos simplistic and short-sighted statements reflected in lots of posts on his site also about games in general. We are all gamers, no matter if someone spends 90% of his time collecting and ten percent playing or vice versa; and if I read on his site the subtitle "Where we play our games," I say "What in the hell does that mean?" :)

I wanted to clear these basic misconceptions up because the labeling of the DP site bothered me. The simplistic labeling is a result of simplistic thinking. Here is WAY more talk about PLAYING older and newer games than about collecting; and that is not a coincidence becasue both are necessarily intertwined. I'm actually amazed that on this site obscure little systems I only read about in the DP Collectors Guide are not very often mentioned.

[lendelin]

In short, you're collecting games because you enjoy playing games. But that doesn't mean you have to play them all.



Why do you have to present my entire thought process in one sentence? Can't you try just a little bit to be as verbose like I am? :)

[lendelin]

Bummer, hate to see you guys having conversations elsewhere. I don't really understand the point of it (as there are thousands of GAMERS right here) but best of luck to y'all. You know where to find us if you get lonely!

I double-underline this one! :) In particular if you look at the site and you see the same exact topics discussed like here, just with a much lower (and at times frightening) quality.

Maybe the reason is that we are all non-playing collectors? Dangit, I forgot about that when I played Burnout 3 tonight and Ninja Gaiden on Saturday.

[hydr0x]

namely there is no collecting for collecting sake unless someone needs psychiatric help.


WHAT??? of course it exists, see below


...don't apply. Coin collectors, stamp collectors, wastebasket collectors all collect for a good reason. And so do you, because...

NO, i for a fact know (and once was) stamp collectors who collect stamps just to have a hobby and collect something, not because they liked stamps before they started to collect, not because the want to see what kind of stamps exist or anything like that. the only reason they collect is they want to collect something...



Why does it suck? You 'just' don't want to complete a set for completions sake. You don't look at your Zelda games and say "oh well, lets just add another one or three, becasue I added so many games anyway.'


YES I DO, that's exactly what i do, yesterday i looked at my snes games and realized owning all those silver boxed konami snes games would be look good on the shelf, so i went out and made a list of what i'm missing, now, because Konami games are good i'm likely going to play them, but i decided to buy them just because they look nice as a set, aesthetic (?) reason only


You buy them not in order to play them, but you buy them for game related reasons:

- is Link really so funny drawn in these games? (comparing them to the regular Zeldas)

- are these games really so bad? (comparing them to the regular Zeldas)

-maybe I get one day a CDI and can actually look at them, don't wanna play the games, but at least look at them.

-I will never ever play these games, I swear to GOD! ...but, God, it is great to possess a pice of game history; I mean, is THIS is the result of the deal N made with Phillips?

-maybe I play these terrible games anyway, just in order to see if they fare so badly compared to the other Zeldas.

I could think of a lots of other reasons, and I could do the exercise with every example you gave.


yeah, please think of another reason, cause those are all not true for me, the only reason i want it is because i can't stand the fact that i have a huge series complete except a few games



One misunderstanding: I talked about GAMING RELATED reasons as the driving force of collectors; you equate them with actually PLAYING games.


no i don't, i totally got what you mean, but it's not true either, just because a huge part of my collection exists because of gaming related reasons doesn't mean there can't be a small part NOT gaming related (and saying that part is gaming related because it completes the actual gaming related part is bullshit)



I talked about the maximization of options for game collectors as avid gamers which an impressive game collection delivers. An option for the gamer to play whatever he likes, whenever he likes.

This is independent of the intent to play or not to play a game on the shelf because the option includes just to let a single game sit on the shelf until he dies. He may plug it in, he might not. He has the CHOICE of playing 500 NES games. He has many more choices than I have becasue I have a mere 50 NES games.


i know you meant this, and i actually replied to this, didn't you read my post or what??? i have games in my collection i did not buy for playing OR for having the choice to play them, but you obviously can't accept that



We have to get away from the simplistic collection for collection sakes; there are reasons that we collect GAMES and not pens, laptops, or beerglasses; a beerglass collector has also lots of different reasons to collect what he collects and not games.

well, yeah, i collect games because i love them, but that doesn't mean a small percentage of my collection is just there for collecting reasons, you can't just ignore that, again, just because the huge part of my collection is gaming related doesn't mean the few games i just buy for completion are automatically gaming related too, yeah, they are related to a gaming related collection, but they aren't related to gaming itself.

and again, see above, there ARE collectors who decided to collect something because they wanted to collect and had to decide on something, for a lot of people it doesn't matter what they collect, it's just important they do collect



The thrill of the hunt is also important for collectors, but it is not an end in itself; otherwise they could hunt deer.

it is, like i just said, there are people who collect something just so they have to hunt something down


The mindset of a collector is one of a playing (!) game nut who is so interested in games that the curiosity naturally spreads: from games and genres he likes to play to games and genres he doesn't like for the sake of their historical significance (which is game related);

see above, you are repeating yourself and totally ignoring what i already said



more importantly, there are overlooked games and changing pfereferences over time of the gamer; at one point he couldn't care less about a game or an entire genre, and then he discovers them and enjoys them. The one who has a lot or maybe even all games doesn't miss out. In my case, I rented back then and didn't like F Zero for the SNES. Today I'd love to have the game becasue GT3 turned me into a racing nut, and I play F Zero GX and would like to compare them to the games on the SNES and N64. I also would like to have Rad Racer which I found boring back then.

I had to write something about sky and sea games, and I had to ask someone to borrow me 'In the Hunt' becasue I didn't have it; (it is on my list for two years, but I was just too lazy to get it all this time) there is no telling that one day we two Europeans might even discover and like Football games and not only soccer games; if you have a big collection, you can play them; if you don't, you might regret one day that you don't have this chioce. (Like you, therefore I picked up online around ten traditional sports games for the current consoles from $3 to $5 just last week; with no intention to play them) The often heard sentence 'you can't have too many games' makes sense.

Various motivations of collectors are game related, and in the end playing related; that does by no means mean that every single game should be played or will be played. A big collection gives you more choices, it is as simple as that.


those are all good reasons to get games, and i do get games because of things like this, but that doesn't change anything about the fact(!!) that i'm getting stuff just for completion, don't try to ignore that damnit, i'm guaranteeing you i actually do that, i understood what's your point, and i assure you, i'm getting games for no reason other than completion or aesthetics



The misconceptions are at the heart of kaminos simplistic and short-sighted statements reflected in lots of posts on his site also about games in general. We are all gamers, no matter if someone spends 90% of his time collecting and ten percent playing or vice versa; and if I read on his site the subtitle "Where we play our games," I say "What in the hell does that mean?" :)


what the heck has that to do with my point? again, we are talking about 1-5% of my collection here, of COURSE i'm a gamer, 95% of the stuff is there for gaming related reasons



I wanted to clear these basic misconceptions up because the labeling of the DP site bothered me. The simplistic labeling is a result of simplistic thinking. Here is WAY more talk about PLAYING older and newer games than about collecting; and that is not a coincidence becasue both are necessarily intertwined. I'm actually amazed that on this site obscure little systems I only read about in the DP Collectors Guide are not very often mentioned.

you are of course correct and i didn't say something else

i only replied to your point that "every game in your collection is there for gaming reasons" and that's just wrong as i showed you above, now, you can keep going on with just ignoring that i buy games for pure completion reasons, but it doesn't change it's a fact...

[ClubNinja]

a beerglass collector has also lots of different reasons to collect what he collects and not games.

I collect both - does that mess up your example? :D

[digitalpress]

This is the worst de-railing of a topic since the 1999 First Annual Topic De-railing Expo held a one time event to see who could de-rail a topic the most.

[GrayFox]

This is the worst de-railing of a topic since the 1999 First Annual Topic De-railing Expo held a one time event to see who could de-rail a topic the most.

Ahh, those were good times.

How I miss them.

[ClubNinja]

This is the worst de-railing of a topic since the 1999 First Annual Topic De-railing Expo held a one time event to see who could de-rail a topic the most.

It sure is, but I was really hoping we could get into some discussion of collectable beer glasses.

I'm in trouble again, aren't I?

[digitalpress]

This is the worst de-railing of a topic since the 1999 First Annual Topic De-railing Expo held a one time event to see who could de-rail a topic the most.

It sure is, but I was really hoping we could get into some discussion of collectable beer glasses.

I'm in trouble again, aren't I?

Nah, it was way off track before you joined in. At this point this is a living breathing off-topic free-for-all!

[ClubNinja]

This is the worst de-railing of a topic since the 1999 First Annual Topic De-railing Expo held a one time event to see who could de-rail a topic the most.

It sure is, but I was really hoping we could get into some discussion of collectable beer glasses.

I'm in trouble again, aren't I?

Nah, it was way off track before you joined in. At this point this is a living breathing off-topic free-for-all!

Oh, good!

Now, everyone go here: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=710246

[bargora]

It seems hydr0x plays a collecting meta-game by collecting games he swears won't be played. And to win the thread game he's playing he must never play the football game.

You play a dangerous game, hydr0x.

[Nature Boy]

Best of luck to you fellas.

[lendelin]

@ hydrox: Ok, I accept that you collect a small percentage of your collection just for completions sake and no other reason whatsoever; this small percentage of games are not gaming related. They are just pieces sitting there on your shelf. I ACCEPT IT! :)

Another note: If I made statements referring explicitly to kamino and therefore critisizing him, there is no reason to assume that this is a reply to you. They were humble attempts to get the discussion back on topic.

[Captain Wrong]

Did somebody say free for all???!?!?!?!

http://www.hallmarkchannel.com/data/images/PG_USA_Matlock_2_1.jpg

http://www.tvacres.com/images/matlock_court2.jpg

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/joel/matlock/girls.jpg

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/joel/matlock/matlock.jpg

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/joel/matlock/banjoben.jpg

+1 +2 +3 =$

In before the lock.

OMGWTFBBQ????!//1?!?!@?2/21?!?@?@#?#?#'/23/3/3/2q?!??!

[le geek]

Thump Thump Thump...

Testing..... Testing.... 1,2,3...

[cues base loop]


Go, go, go shawty

http://www.hallmarkchannel.com/data/images/PG_USA_Matlock_2_1.jpg

It's your birthday


http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/joel/matlock/girls.jpg

We gon' party


http://www.hallmarkchannel.com/data/images/PG_USA_Matlock_2_1.jpg

like it's yo birthday


http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/joel/matlock/girls.jpg

[digitalpress]

Well, that was fun.

If I haven't said it already, I'll say it now. Good luck with your website, fellas. It's thankless work.