Might we soon need ID to purchase video games ?

[Mr.Faxanadu]

I bet you games like GTA III and Manhunt are the cause of this proposed regulation (article below)

After playing GTA III I can’t blame them – Don’t you find that when your kicking the girl you just beat down to the pavement that the kicks are automatically placed in the groin region NASTY X_x


From gamespot news:


Japan considering self-imposed game regulation
Kanagawa prefecture legislation and a GTAIII-linked murder spur the game industry in Japan to take action.

According to Mainichi Interactive, the Japanese game industry--including leading console manufacturers Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo--are considering implementing a self-imposed regulation on sales of games to minors. The industry is reviewing a number of possibilities, including requiring identification when selling games targeted toward players over age 18. The Computer Entertainment Supplier's Association's (CESA) distribution committee, lead by committee chief (and Koei president) Kiyoshi Komatsu, is currently in discussion with publishers and retailers.

The industry's self-control is seen as a move to deter the Japanese government from imposing regulations that could hinder the freedom of expression in games. "I think that there needs to be some rules and regulations for game sales, but the censorship on the expressions in the games should be left to the industry," said one anonymous publishing-company executive, whose opinion seems to represent the general consensus among the industry.

The move comes on the heels of Kanagawa prefecture's decision to ban the sales of Grand Theft Auto III to minors as a "harmful publication." The ban has led other prefectures to consider taking similar steps for games that are violent in nature, especially given that there have recently been a number of juvenile crime incidences that were linked to games. Aichi prefecture will be implementing an age-limit restriction in July, and Osaka prefecture will address the issue in September. Ishikawa and Saitama prefectures are planning to regulate sales of violent games as well.

In February, a 17-year-old boy was arrested for killing one teacher and stabbing three others in his old elementary school. The boy was later found out to be a hardcore gamer who wanted to work in the gaming industry, and he was a fan of the Resident Evil series. More recently, a 15-year-old boy who murdered his parents and concealed his crime by blowing up their Tokyo apartment with homemade explosives was linked in the media to Grand Theft Auto III.

By Staff -- GameSpot
POSTED: 06/27/05 01:00 PM PST

[shvnsth]

i know some stores around here require that you have id on you when you purchase games. sucks

[Zilla]

I dont think its a big deal if the start carding people for games. They do it for movies. It sucks when you arent of age but I guess that would stop the arguements and games would go to the groups they were intended for.

[Cmosfm]

i know some stores around here require that you have id on you when you purchase games. sucks

No, it doesn't "suck", it's responsible salesmanship. These games aren't for children under the age of 17 and if you aren't 17, you shouldn't be playing these games.

Life's hard, buy a helmet.

[bargora]

I know that no age regulation is going to be popular with the underage set; but I'd really prefer to have the industry set the standards for enforcement rather than Congressman Joe Grandstand, who would doubtless prefer that videogames be sent back to 1981 levels of violence and graphics.

That Pac-Man was just so cute!

[punkoffgirl]

i know some stores around here require that you have id on you when you purchase games. sucks

No, it doesn't "suck", it's responsible salesmanship. These games aren't for children under the age of 17 and if you aren't 17, you shouldn't be playing these games.

Life's hard, buy a helmet.

I agree with Cmos. I don't see any problem with having to prove you're old enough to purchase a game that contains a lot of gratuitous violence.

[Chuplayer]

I got carded at Best Buy when buying Time Crisis 3 last year. I was 18, looked 18, and the game was rated T. WTF. Can't sell orange toy guns to kids anymore?

I have no opinion on the matter. I just wanted to tell that story.

[kainemaxwell]

For games rated M I don't see what the problem with carding is. Just like making sure someone is old enough to buy a cd with the "Explict lyrics" sticker on it.

[Push Upstairs]

I don't care if they card for MA rated games...i'm old enough to buy whatever i want.

I do think its a good idea to card for MA games but alot of good it does when parents just buy the kids the games or people just ignore the ratings.

[shvnsth]

i know some stores around here require that you have id on you when you purchase games. sucks

No, it doesn't "suck", it's responsible salesmanship. These games aren't for children under the age of 17 and if you aren't 17, you shouldn't be playing these games.

Life's hard, buy a helmet.

who says that these games arent for kids under 17? they sell books that are a lot more violent (american physco for one) to kids who are 10, and that book would teach the young reader far more shit than any video game i can think of. also, with the internet and tv, the kids could look up anything they want online, from snuff to porn.

[punkoffgirl]

i know some stores around here require that you have id on you when you purchase games. sucks

No, it doesn't "suck", it's responsible salesmanship. These games aren't for children under the age of 17 and if you aren't 17, you shouldn't be playing these games.

Life's hard, buy a helmet.

who says that these games arent for kids under 17? they sell books that are a lot more violent (american physco for one) to kids who are 10, and that book would teach the young reader far more shit than any video game i can think of. also, with the internet and tv, the kids could look up anything they want online, from snuff to porn.

Because video games have come under fire, and the industry is being proactive about it, rather than letting the "government" make the rules. What's the big deal about having to prove you're old enough to purchase the game? If parents want their kids to have that material and purchase it for them, then that's up to them.. same goes with reading the books or using the internet.

[pragmatic insanester]

kicking in the groin region is not just for vicious purpose - its also tactical. aiming your foot into the chest or head area is easier to fend off because of the way your arms can shield. it also has a better center of balance (your groin), so it will keep the person rooted onto the ground better.

[Crazycarl]

I don't see anything wrong with this. Little kids shouldn't be playing these games, because sometimes they can't differ from reality and fiction. This will also help w/ the neglecable parents who get pissed off when they see thier kid playing a violent game that they bought them, because they didn't know it was violent. Hell it's only in the name GRAND THEFT AUTO.


Life's hard, buy a helmet.


one of my fav. lines from no cure for cancer. and its life sucks, get a helmet.

[Cmosfm]

I don't see anything wrong with this. Little kids shouldn't be playing these games, because sometimes they can't differ from reality and fiction. This will also help w/ the neglecable parents who get pissed off when they see thier kid playing a violent game that they bought them, because they didn't know it was violent. Hell it's only in the name GRAND THEFT AUTO.


Life's hard, buy a helmet.


one of my fav. lines from no cure for cancer. and its life sucks, get a helmet.

Well life doesn't suck, and it doesn't work in the case, so I used "hard".

Umich, is it safe to assume that you are under 17?

Kids always have access to anything they want, graphic books, national geographics with boobs in them, Robitussin that gets you high when you OD on it, it's all out there and easily accessable to children. Thing is, video games are popular, very very popular. I'd be willing to be that 4 out of 5 kids own or play a game console regularly.

Now, if that many kids were hardcore into reading books, and they were all picking up American Psycho and basing their choices on what's the most explicit book they can find is, I'm sure we'd see carding and rating scales for books too.

As for the internet, it's up to a responsible parent to know what their kids are doing online and just not let little 12 year old Jimmy have free run of the PC.

[Mangar]

As long as the carding is done voluntarily by the retailers, i don't have a problem with it. My only issue is when they attempt to circumvent the Constitution in order to pass laws that FORCE retailers to do so.

As it stands now: It's up to the store.

[WanganRunner]

i know some stores around here require that you have id on you when you purchase games. sucks

No, it doesn't "suck", it's responsible salesmanship. These games aren't for children under the age of 17 and if you aren't 17, you shouldn't be playing these games.

Life's hard, buy a helmet.

I *completely* agree.

Anyone who argues to the contrary is an enemy of the industry. There are only two options, ratings enforcement (like this) or censorship, and censorship is unacceptable.

[tony_good]

Carding isn't such a big deal.

Lieberman and McCain's protesting that caused the rating system actually resulted in ludicrous censorship of language, but not of violence.

Now that they are finally allowed to say F*ck, it's not such a problem.

It is annoying when people ask for my ID - considering I am old as the hills and they are actually accusing me of lying about my age, but what can you do?

We will always live in an ageist, racist, sexist, homophobic society, unfortunately.

[kevincure]

My only problem is the ratings scale. It seems like the Game rating scale is much harsher than the movie rating scale, but Joe On The Street treats them as equivalent. A T rating is not the same as a PG-13, and a M is often not the same as an R. I think this is remedied somewhat by the new "not quite E, not quite T" rating they're putting out for games with cartoon violence.

Also, concerning GTA in particular: As many have mentioned, games aren't necessarily "violent" or "non-violent". GTA is as violent as the player makes it. It reflects the player. If you don't seek out prostitutes, you don't see them. If you don't personally shoot cops, cops don't get shot. That's quite a bit different from other forms of media.

[chrisbid]

i dont see a problem with it at all, i would rather the industry and retailers card people, than the jesus freaks in congress ban certain content in video games

[Slimedog]

I would not mind seeing manditory ID checks for M rated games. Mainly because without them, the places that do card will be effectively punished for the policy. Kids will go elsewhere to buy what they want and the conscientious stores will lose sales. Nobody is going to buy Spongebob over GTA if they can go across the street to an indie store and get it.

[tritium]

Why don't people get the idea that Minors are NOT entitled to all the rights adults are because of the stages of psychological development.

Card everyone screw the rest.

Geez. Make the kids stick to T rated titles. They're better anyway.

[Gamereviewgod]

Four problems:

1. Parents get pissed they need to be a parent.
2. Retail employyes are not parents.
3. Retail employees fired when kid uses fake ID.
4. Games will be censored, much like so many movies take the PG-13 route (AvP).

Games are not alcohol or cigarettes. If this same type of thing was required for book sales or any other media, I'd say no problem. There's no need for this. The only reason they're doing this is because games are now scapegoats.

[felix]

I think as a whole, society needs somebody to point their fingers at for all of their mistakes. Instead of blaming the parents for not taking responcibility, lets blame videogames, movies, tv and muisc.

Its the easy way out.. its like saying that your cooking sucks because of the products that you buy.. Not the fact that you burn your cheerios every morning.

[pragmatic insanester]

mccain was involved with the rating system as well?

[Spartacus]

My only problem is the ratings scale. It seems like the Game rating scale is much harsher than the movie rating scale

I've noticed that myself. I remember standing in line to see the movie "The Exorcist" when it came out. Great R rated movie! Do I think I will ever see a 13 yr old girl savaging her vagina with a crucifix while gleefully screaming "F*ck Jesus!" in an video game, M rated or not? Nope. :angry:
Well, not on the Gamecube anyway! LOL

[shvnsth]

Umich, is it safe to assume that you are under 17?


it would be safe to say, but you would be wrong.

[dieourumov]

I agree with requiring IDs, immature stupid kids shouldn't be able to purchase games without their mommy being there.

[Chuplayer]

I've noticed that myself. I remember standing in line to see the movie "The Exorcist" when it came out. Great R rated movie! Do I think I will ever see a 13 yr old girl savaging her vagina with a crucifix while gleefully screaming "F*ck Jesus!" in an video game, M rated or not? Nope. :angry:
Well, not on the Gamecube anyway! LOL

Um... WTF?

[Dart]

Video games do not suddenly make people become violent. If a video game can inspire you to become violent then, well, you were already screwed up in the head. Video game regulation is stupid. Let anyone buy any game they want. I've been playing violent video games ever since I was a little kid and so have most people I know and we've never been inspired to be violent. There's no reason to punish everyone else just because of a few psychopaths.

Carding is ineffective anyway because many kids have older siblings or naive parents that they can get to buy the M-rated games for them.

[bargora]

Carding is ineffective anyway because many kids have older siblings or naive parents that they can get to buy the M-rated games for them.
Using that logic, we shouldn't have any laws at all because many people break them.

NO RULES, DUUDE!

[Dart]

Carding is ineffective anyway because many kids have older siblings or naive parents that they can get to buy the M-rated games for them.
Using that logic, we shouldn't have any laws at all because many people break them.

NO RULES, DUUDE!
But the fact that kids buying M-rated games isn't even a real crime (i.e. no one is being deprived of life, liberty, or property by the games) makes it just waste a time to regulate.

Video games should stop being used as a scapegoat.

[Cmosfm]

Carding is ineffective anyway because many kids have older siblings or naive parents that they can get to buy the M-rated games for them.
Using that logic, we shouldn't have any laws at all because many people break them.

NO RULES, DUUDE!
But the fact that kids buying M-rated games isn't even a real crime (i.e. no one is being deprived of life, liberty, or property by the games) makes it just waste a time to regulate.

Video games should stop being used as a scapegoat.

:roll:

You know, no matter how much you don't want to believe it, there IS going to be a handful of kids out there that is going to pull off a violent act because they saw it in a video game. It WILL happen, it DOES happen, granted that it doesn't happen all the time and every time it does happen the blame isn't always passed onto the video game they played.

Not only that, look at GTA: San Andreas. I wouldn't let MY son or MY brother play that game. The cursing, drugs, violence and sex is extreme in that game, and even *I* feel bad playing it sometimes. Call me "old timey" if you want, but I grew up in a household that you weren't and still aren't allowed to cuss in and I was taught that drugs and violence aren't allowed and are wrong. I don't understand the way people think these things are A-OK and little Jimmy and Johnny can play games and watch movies riddled with them.

You know, every time someone has a "dude no one should be carded for games lolol" opinion, they come off like a 14 year old 90% of the time, so I don't even know why I'm bothering responding to these inane comments. Your opinions will change once you become a parent or stop thinking with your head in your ass.

[monkeychemist]

people are stupid! It has been shown time and time again that TV and games DO NOT influence kids to do illegal things. It poor parenting or bad living situation or some outside influence. As an example, I was born in France and there our satuday morning cartoons were translated japanese anime. Yes I grew up on Fist of the North Star, the un-americanized version of dragonball and many other extremely violent cartoons. However, my parents taught me right from wrong therefore i know it is not a good idea to light somethign on fire inside a house, or run out with a gun and shoot people.

It is so dissapointing to see that people are always trying to blame others for their lack of parenting. you don't want kids that blow stuff up? get off your lazy ass and take care of them...and possibly hug them once in a while...

ok my rant is over LOL

[Dart]

You know, no matter how much you don't want to believe it, there IS going to be a handful of kids out there that is going to pull off a violent act because they saw it in a video game. It WILL happen, it DOES happen, granted that it doesn't happen all the time and every time it does happen the blame isn't always passed onto the video game they played.
Most kids, if they were brought up right, know the difference between fantasy and reality. It's only messed up kids and kids with bad parents that don't, and even then they're usually only looking for a scapegoat so they can sue and make money.


Call me "old timey" if you want, but I grew up in a household that you weren't and still aren't allowed to cuss in and I was taught that drugs and violence aren't allowed and are wrong. I don't understand the way people think these things are A-OK and little Jimmy and Johnny can play games and watch movies riddled with them.
I was brought up in the same kind of household, but my parents had no problem with me playing violent video games because they knew I knew better than to imitate anything in the video games, and 99.9% of kids do know better than to imitate any violent things in video games.


You know, every time someone has a "dude no one should be carded for games lolol" opinion, they come off like a 14 year old 90% of the time, so I don't even know why I'm bothering responding to these inane comments.
So defending freedom and personal responsibility is immature?


Your opinions will change once you become a parent
I doubt it. I will bring my kids up right so that, like me, they can play violent video games and not be so easily impressionable.

[Mangar]

I don't see why anyone has a problem with game stores THEMSELVES deciding to either ID people buying games or not. As long as no governmental body is forcing them to, it's a non-issue for me. (It would be Unconstitutional in any case)

Me personally? I'd ID nobody. As is my right. Same goes for adults slightly more responsible then me who wish to keep games made for people 21 and over, out of the hands of 9 year old Timmy down the block.

Just be happy that the decision is being made by each retailer/store independantly.

[Cmosfm]

You know, no matter how much you don't want to believe it, there IS going to be a handful of kids out there that is going to pull off a violent act because they saw it in a video game. It WILL happen, it DOES happen, granted that it doesn't happen all the time and every time it does happen the blame isn't always passed onto the video game they played.
Most kids, if they were brought up right, know the difference between fantasy and reality. It's only messed up kids and kids with bad parents that don't, and even then they're usually only looking for a scapegoat so they can sue and make money.


Call me "old timey" if you want, but I grew up in a household that you weren't and still aren't allowed to cuss in and I was taught that drugs and violence aren't allowed and are wrong. I don't understand the way people think these things are A-OK and little Jimmy and Johnny can play games and watch movies riddled with them.
I was brought up in the same kind of household, but my parents had no problem with me playing violent video games because they knew I knew better than to imitate anything in the video games, and 99.9% of kids do know better than to imitate any violent things in video games.


You know, every time someone has a "dude no one should be carded for games lolol" opinion, they come off like a 14 year old 90% of the time, so I don't even know why I'm bothering responding to these inane comments.
So defending freedom and personal responsibility is immature?


Your opinions will change once you become a parent
I doubt it. I will bring my kids up right so that, like me, they can play violent video games and not be so easily impressionable.

Violence aside. What about the cursing? Maybe you'd stop your kids from saying "motherfucker" at home, but I bet he'll say it at school around his friends. What about the sex? Is it ok for your kid to walk in on a a guy getting a blowjob in San Andreas? Is it ok for your kid to see stripper videos in BMX XXX? What about drugs? Oh, dude on Narc is smoking weed and man everything is awesome when he smokes weed! I'm gonna try it! Is that ok?

Maybe good parenting can stop the violence, but there's much more to worry about than beating up random civilians on the street, there are things that good parenting will NOT stop, and influencing your kids to it in video games isn't going to make it better.


I don't see why anyone has a problem with game stores THEMSELVES deciding to either ID people buying games or not. As long as no governmental body is forcing them to, it's a non-issue for me. (It would be Unconstitutional in any case)

Me personally? I'd ID nobody. As is my right. Same goes for adults slightly more responsible then me who wish to keep games made for people 21 and over, out of the hands of 9 year old Timmy down the block.

Just be happy that the decision is being made by each retailer/store independantly.

Is this more of this "freedom" bullshit? People should have the right to buy what they want?

Yes, they should.

But not 9 year olds, 9 year olds don't HAVE rights like adults do. That's why there is a set age when you become an adult, that's 18, and until you are 18 your parents AND the government have the right to tell you what you can and can't do, watch, where you can and can't go, etc. etc.

[Griking]

I know that no age regulation is going to be popular with the underage set; but I'd really prefer to have the industry set the standards for enforcement rather than Congressman Joe Grandstand, who would doubtless prefer that videogames be sent back to 1981 levels of violence and graphics.

The reason that wouldn't work is that self enforced regulations rarely have penalties that will stick and therefore they end up being completely optional regulations. People who feel like enforcing them will while those who don't want to be bothered would most likely ignore them.

I personally don't see anything wrong with the idea carding kids who want to purchase mature rated games.


I don't see why anyone has a problem with game stores THEMSELVES deciding to either ID people buying games or not. As long as no governmental body is forcing them to, it's a non-issue for me. (It would be Unconstitutional in any case)

The problem is that most stores don't enforce the current regulations.

Why in the world should a 17 year old sales clerk be allowed to make a decision over who can and who cannot purcahse a product that he wouldn't be able to purchase himself? That's just rediculous.

[Push Upstairs]

Why in the world should a 17 year old sales clerk be allowed to make a decision over who can and who cannot purcahse a product that he wouldn't be able to purchase himself? That's just rediculous.

Well, lets pretend that the store has a rule that they have to card and say "no" to anyone under said age.

He has to make that decision because its required for him to do so if he wants to remain employed at that store.

But remember, you do have the freedom to shop elsewhere and avoid this issue. :D

I speak of the local store here that actually cards people and requires anyone trading in any product to be 18 or have an adult present. They also make you sign a sheet agreeing that the product you sold/traded isnt stolen (and they copy your drivers license #)

Does it bother me they go through these measures? No...i worked at a place that had none of these guidelines in place and having at least *one* of those rules in place would have saved us a load of trouble.

[scooby105]

theres a big difference between books/movies and videogames when it comes to violence. when a book/movie is involved, you are reading about or watching someone else perform the violence. when you play a videogame, you are acting out the violence yourself. if youre too stupid to notice the difference, then you shouldnt be buying videogames at all.

the real problem does stem from lack of parenting though. when most adults think of videogames, they think of the atari or maybe the nes. the most violent of videogames on those systems still had well under 1000 colors. videogames now look a lot more realistic than they used to. more realistic videogames have more realistic consequences.

[Dimitri]

As I don't really have anything unique to add to this discussion, seeing as I believe you should be carded for M-rated games just like with alcohol or cigarettes, here's a little story that happened to me several years ago:

I walked into Gamestop, and decided that I wanted to get into the Metal Gear games. I grabbed a copy of MGS2 and took it up to the counter. The guy, who was new there, asked me for ID. I was only 16 at the time and I didn't even notice the rating on the box...just that the game looked interesting, so I'm like "huh?" and he points out the M rating. Another clerk yells over to him "dude, he's been in here a million times, just sell him the game".

Apparently being a regular customer gives you special benefits...

[punkoffgirl]

Carding is ineffective anyway because many kids have older siblings or naive parents that they can get to buy the M-rated games for them.
Using that logic, we shouldn't have any laws at all because many people break them.

NO RULES, DUUDE!

Have I told you lately, how much I love your posts?
Cuz I really do :)

[squidblatt]

I don't understand some of the points of view here. People protest against policies that help parents make meaningful and intelligent decisions and then accuse them of poor parenting.

[XxMe2NiKxX]

Videogames don't screw people up, bad parenting does. If you're too much of a dumbfuck to raise your kid right that he gets so influenced by GTA that he goes on a killing spree, it's the parenting that should be fixed. Don't regulate games on age, there are plenty of psychotic ADULTS who lack maturity that need punishing. If nine year old timmy wants GTA 3, if nine year old timy has the money for GTA 3, let him have it. If his parents are so lacking in their ability to tell their kid that shooting random hookers in real life is WRONG and that it's just a game, then it is the fault of the PARENTS, not the children.

US congress, defending lazy parents every day.

[bargora]

Carding is ineffective anyway because many kids have older siblings or naive parents that they can get to buy the M-rated games for them.
Using that logic, we shouldn't have any laws at all because many people break them.

NO RULES, DUUDE!
But the fact that kids buying M-rated games isn't even a real crime (i.e. no one is being deprived of life, liberty, or property by the games) makes it just waste a time to regulate.

Video games should stop being used as a scapegoat.
Now you are talking sense, and I agree with you. The reason that I am not against industry-set standards is (if enforced even half-assedly (I'll check that one in Merriam-Webster later)) they can go a long way toward taking the heat off of our beloved VG industry.


The problem is that most stores don't enforce the current regulations.
Well, that's a problem the industry is going to have to address if it wants its ratings system to be taken seriously by the politicos. I don't think it's an insurmountable problem. I mean, sure, it's a bit of a prisoner's dilemma, because you don't want to end up carding kids who just go across the street to Slackmeyer's Games to get Grand Murder Sims. But I think that if the political outcry gets loud enough the publishers might wake up and realize that their cash cows are about to be regulated out of existence.


Why in the world should a 17 year old sales clerk be allowed to make a decision over who can and who cannot purcahse a product that he wouldn't be able to purchase himself? That's just rediculous.
If you threaten, seriously threaten to fire the clerk for selling M games to 13-year-olds, said clerk might think twice. And I don't think of it as "making a decision over who can and cannot purchase a product". That decision has already been made. The clerk is just enforcing the rules. Because, like, if he (or she) doesn't, he's (or she's) likely gonna get cut off from the sweet, sweet teat of video game discounts and excellent slacker working conditions.

Oh, wait. Push Upstairs already made the point. Sorry!


Have I told you lately, how much I love your posts?
Cuz I really do :)
:embarrassed: Aww, shucks. *looks away, scuffles the ground with toe of sneaker*

[GarrettCRW]

US congress, defending lazy parents every day.

That, and Congress and the President (whose poll numbers are even lower than they were before 9/11) are focusing on wedge issues like this of late. To quote Pete Townshend, it's an eminence front-a put on.

[Gamereviewgod]

I don't understand some of the points of view here. People protest against policies that help parents make meaningful and intelligent decisions and then accuse them of poor parenting.
__________

Of course. This wouldn't even be an issue if parents were being parents. They don't need laws like this to make a decisions for them. They should know better with the huge letters and decriptors on the box. No law is going to make the idiot parents stop letting their kids play them.

The ones who do care, already care. The ones who don't are only going to get pissed when they need to do what they should be doing (being with their kid when they're buying games).

[Mangar]

Is this more of this "freedom" bullshit? People should have the right to buy what they want?

Yes, they should.

But not 9 year olds, 9 year olds don't HAVE rights like adults do. That's why there is a set age when you become an adult, that's 18, and until you are 18 your parents AND the government have the right to tell you what you can and can't do, watch, where you can and can't go, etc. etc.

Well, No they don't actually. I mean, it's good that you think they do. But in the real world, the world that is governed by Constitutional Law - The Governments ability to tell you what to do is severely limited. Which is why every single law that has been passed governing the sale of videogames has been overturned by the courts. You may not like it, but that's simply the way things are in the U.S. Which means that if i decide to sell you're nine year old child Grand Theft Auto 3, there is fuck all you or the government can do about it. The decision rests SOLELY with the individual retailer, and/or the parent to properly monitor and well - Act like a parent.

This reminds me of a court case i was reading about, where a local town government/police decided to charge a family for serving wine with dinner to their children. (A cultural thing for many) The judge threw it right out of court for a variety of reasons, but the bottom line was - If a parent feels that a glass of wine is warranted with meals, that's his RIGHT as a parent to make such a determination. Not the governments. As long as the child isn't at serious risk or harm - The Government has no right to step in and tell people how to raise them. Despite what you seem to think :)

But for the record: I have no problem with individual stores deciding for themselves to enforce ratings. As long as nobody forces them, or **TRIES** to force them. All is good as far as i'm concerned. If keeping you're children away from violent videogames is too difficult a task for people, then perhaps they shouldn't have become parents.

[Daria]

One I agree with the concept of carding minors for mature games. If the kids want to play something of questionable content you gotta force the parents to take notice and consciously make the descion whether or not to buy it for them. The more parental involvement the better.

And I'm not saying that every kid that walks out of EB with GTA has bad parents either. Kids can be devious little bastards. But at least the carding would make it more difficult for them to get away with it.

Two, carding is in no way an inconvience to myself. I'm 21, I always carry my ID and more often then not I'm paying for my games with a Visa check card. I want to be carded. It bothers me now when I'm not because the back of my card clearly states "See I.D." so when they doesn't ask for it I know that they aren't doing their job properly.

[bargora]

Two, carding is in no way an inconvience to myself. I'm 21, I always carry my ID and more often then not I'm paying for my games with a Visa check card. I want to be carded. It bothers me now when I'm not because the back of my card clearly states "See I.D." so when they doesn't ask for it I know that they aren't doing their job properly.
Just FYI, the U.S. Post Offices (at least the ones around here--I think it's their uniform policy) won't accept an unsigned check card (or credit card) for payment. They explicitly say that "See I.D." isn't good enough--an actual signature on the card is required. Of course, if you never need to pay for stuff at the USPO with your check card, I guess it's no problem. :) Or maybe you also have a signature on the back of your card? I only became aware of the policy because I sometimes purchase postal money orders.

Sorry for derail--carrion!

[Push Upstairs]

Really? I'vew never had a problem using my check card at the post office here and all it says is "See ID".

[bargora]

Really? I'vew never had a problem using my check card at the post office here and all it says is "See ID".
Aargh! I've been pwned by the post!

[squidblatt]

I don't understand some of the points of view here. People protest against policies that help parents make meaningful and intelligent decisions and then accuse them of poor parenting.
__________

Of course. This wouldn't even be an issue if parents were being parents. They don't need laws like this to make a decisions for them. They should know better with the huge letters and decriptors on the box. No law is going to make the idiot parents stop letting their kids play them.

The ones who do care, already care. The ones who don't are only going to get pissed when they need to do what they should be doing (being with their kid when they're buying games).

I agree to a large extent. Believe me, as a librarian I'm on the front lines against censorship. But I do sympathize with parents trying to maintain control when so many markets are aggressively promoting their products to children in ways that ursurp their authority.

Even parents who make an effort to monitor their children's games are not going to be there for every purchase if the children are teens. It's a tough call for me. When my son is in his teens, I don't want to intrude on his privacy in order to inspect all of his media, but I also want my decisions to carry weight. And they won't if he can buy mature material whenever I'm not around, which will be more often than not.

[Push Upstairs]

Really? I'vew never had a problem using my check card at the post office here and all it says is "See ID".
Aargh! I've been pwned by the post!

I smell a conspiracy....


or the garbage need to be taken out.

[Gamereviewgod]

I agree to a large extent. Believe me, as a librarian I'm on the front lines against censorship. But I do sympathize with parents trying to maintain control when so many markets are aggressively promoting their products to children in ways that ursurp their authority..

They're not promoting them. The government and these parental groups do it for them. After Schumer opened his mouth on 25 to Life, it jumped over a 1,000 spots on Amazon's Hot List. He saved Eidos a few million on advertising. Every gaming kid in America probably wants this game now.

And I still stand and say GTA III/VC/SA never would have sold as well as they did if it wasn't for the media coverage.

I know it's hard to be parent, but that doesn't excuse you from being one. I agree that the stores should make the call on ID, no one else.

[Push Upstairs]

I don't know why game naysayers have never grasped that the more you tell people *NOT* to buy a game the more they will seek it out.

If you are so against the game, don't say anything and let the game sell for shit.

[Griking]

Well, lets pretend that the store has a rule that they have to card and say "no" to anyone under said age.

He has to make that decision because its required for him to do so if he wants to remain employed at that store

But remember, you do have the freedom to shop elsewhere and avoid this issue. :D

And that's where once of the problems lies. If say EBWorld decided to voluntarily enforce the age restriction but Gamestop decided that they don't want to all of the kids will no doubt purchase their games from Gamestop. Once EBWorld noticed that they were loosing all of their business to kids over the decision it wouldn't be long before they stopped carding for game purchases because they don't want to loose the sales. Then we'd be back to where we are now where nobody cards and 12 year old kids can walk into a store and buy GTA3

The fact is that companys will very very rarely make a decision on their own that will negatively effect their sales.

[Push Upstairs]

And if both places enforced that rule and a local indie store didnt i'm sure kids would go there....

or kids will just learn to plead to whatever parent they dragged along and hope the parent will buy them whatever game they "have to own".



I am quite amazed at how many parents gets mad when they are required to buy/sell games at the local game store....like they can't be bothered to get out of the car. :roll: