think there will ever be a serious nazi game?

[pragmatic insanester]

aside from the occasional character you can pick for deathmatches or some crude internet flash novelty, do you think there will ever come a time when nazis could be playable characters in some type of game?

it wouldn't have to be some kind of empowerment to the ideology or a deathcamp simulator. we have hundreds of video games where you fight them in whatever ww2 / vampire-demon-plot is the latest rage. there are movies that have realistic portrayals of them, some ending with a theme of punishment or "what man is capable of".

what kind of villian can honestly be taken non-lightheartedly (i'm looking at you, GTA) and show the gaming audience a much squashed aspect of modern politik and warfare?

[-hellvin-]

Hmm...except for multiplayer, I can't really think of an occasion where any game has let you play as a nazi. I couldn't really see there being a nazi only side game, as I don't think it would sell well, but it might be doable as an axis & allies campaign within one game. If you're thinking of some game where you're a nazi death camp soldier who wheelbarrows a pile of corpses into a pit....well...then I don't think we'll ever be seeing something like that.

[pragmatic insanester]

the main character of ring of red (ps2) was a former nazi ecommunicated from germany. however, the us version was edited so there's a gaping plot hole.

[Teo]

the main character of ring of red (ps2) was a former nazi ecommunicated from germany. however, the us version was edited so there's a gaping plot hole.

What! thats such a cop out. Why not just hack away at A Hunt for Red October while your're at it. There was that one famicom game that fetches a somewhat high price. Other than that just play Wolfenstein

[Gamereviewgod]

Give Rockstar a few years to run out of ideas.

[Yago]

What about the free Wolfentstein: Enemy Territory online game. Or Wolfenstein for that matter... The online game anyway, can't play a Nazi in the single person game.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

think there will ever be a serious nazi game?

What do you want? Schindler's List - The Video Game??? :roll:



How do games such as Medal Of Honor go down in Germany?

Obviously they can't be as successful over there as they are in the UK or America, for obvious reasons... Like, what self respecting German wants to play a game where they are an American shooting their own?


I have a copy of the original MOH game on PSone and it's completely in German. No English. No other European languages. Just German. This got me thinking to whether the actual story in the game is the same as the English version, or was it edited slightly so as to not offend the Germans???

[Mr. Smashy]

Wouldn't Panzer General qualify?
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/panzer-general

I'd call it a serious game.

[Humanoid]

I swear there was a game released in the early 90's called Km manager or something that was based around running a nazi death camp. anyone else know anything?

[GarrettCRW]

Obviously they can't be as successful over there as they are in the UK or America, for obvious reasons... Like, what self respecting German wants to play a game where they are an American shooting their own?

You mean like how the 194X series isn't as poular in Japan because of the subject matter? ;)

[Richter]

think there will ever be a serious nazi game?

What do you want? Schindler's List - The Video Game??? :roll:



How do games such as Medal Of Honor go down in Germany?

Obviously they can't be as successful over there as they are in the UK or America, for obvious reasons... Like, what self respecting German wants to play a game where they are an American shooting their own?


I have a copy of the original MOH game on PSone and it's completely in German. No English. No other European languages. Just German. This got me thinking to whether the actual story in the game is the same as the English version, or was it edited slightly so as to not offend the Germans???read an article in some game mag about this (cant remember the name of the mag). Mentioned that the Germans don tmind because they're arent Nazis - which is a political party. Just because they're German != Nazi

[RCM]

I would definitely play a Nazi death camp simulator game. While they're at they could do a "serious" suicide bomber game too. They could top the trilogy off with a Necro-pedophile game.

I really don't see the need for a Nazi game. Not many people have problems with killing Nazi's in game b/c they are scumbags. Why give Washington and groups against gaming more fuel? While I was obviously sarcastic if they made that stuff I would have to play no matter how offensive. Play and not buy. Fuck Nazi's.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[Mr.Faxanadu]

The only game I ever saw that dealt with the subject of Nazi's was Bionic Commando for the NES. I remember finishing that game for the first time..... "hey isn’t that….. it is….. oh wait….. oh there’s guts everywhere!” :eek 2:


http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/nes/a/bioni-4.gif
http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/nes/a/bioni-5.gif
http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/nes/a/bioni-6.gif

[Ed Oscuro]

Guh, MORTYR (http://pc.ign.com/objects/010/010526.html). This was a funky FPS from around 1999 (actually released at the very beginning of 2000) that had you playing as the son of a Nazi (I think) from the future who had to go back and ruin some Nazi plans, you see. Lots of WWII guns and funky German-style weapons. The demo was actually pretty good looking. I don't suppose it holds up on merits of story and co-op like System Shock 2, but it looks a heck of a lot better as I recall. Or it did, anyhow, but I played no later than 2001.

The box art for this one had an overturned helmet with a pool of blood in it.

[esquire]

Glad to see someone remembers Mortyr. That was a fun game with an interesting twist. Here's a review (http://pc.ign.com/objects/010/010526.html).

Apparently Mortyr II came out in February this year. I knew nothing about this. Anyone play it? Here's another review (http://pc.ign.com/objects/694/694833.html).

I recall recently reading an article in PC Gamer regarding Call of Duty 2 wherein it said they were considering a campaign for the Germans. Apparently it has the backing of some of "the powers that be" at developer Infinity Ward.

Check it out here (http://www.pcgamer.com/endboss/endboss_2005-03-03.html).

I know playing as a member of a notorious regime has to be carefully thought out, and considerate of those who suffered at their hands, but consider the following:

Call of Duty lets you play as the Soviets. Although an ally of the US and UK, they weren't exactly nice guys. Prior to the invasion of the USSR, the Soviets had allied themselves with Nazi Germany over the partition of Poland and the takeover of the Baltic States (Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia). Moreover, Stalin's regime was responsible for far more deaths than the Nazi regime.

Battlefield Vietnam, although not a single payer game, lets you play as the Communist North/Viet Cong. After the war, the Communists sent hundreds of thousands of people to "re-education" camps. During the war they used tactics such as "eliminating" the middle and upper class "bourgeois" members of the community such as teachers, local politicians and merchants.

[Mianrtcv]

Nothing to add, except :eek 2: . I have to agree with RCM here. Games have a bad rep anyway. Why bring the noise like that. I have thousands of games, i may get close to as many in the time coming. Maybe not if people start making games that make it politically correct to squash %80 of the gaming industry by restricting subject matter to sports and other non inflammatory content. JMO.

[hydr0x]

Obviously they can't be as successful over there as they are in the UK or America, for obvious reasons... Like, what self respecting German wants to play a game where they are an American shooting their own?

omg, i really hope you're not as stupid as that statement makes me think...

1) you are shooting your own in so many games, how can you play "Destroy all Humans (PS2)" ??

2) if you actually mean that we are shooting "our own" when we shoot nazis, then **** yourself. We are NOT shooting ourselves, we've got nothing to do with those bastards

[Mianrtcv]

Disregard my previous post. I just realized it's July 1st. So this topic is clearly 3 months late for April fool's day, right?

[Yamazaki]

Without getting to aggressive, MoH is one of the most succesful games in Europe I'd say.

KZ Manager is banned in Germany (I recall some pics though).

There is actually a Nazi version of Doom1. Produced by some white power group it is a clear example that ideologies indeed make people stupid since its the worst Doom Mod I've ever seen in my life.

[j_eits]

I swear there was a game released in the early 90's called Km manager or something that was based around running a nazi death camp. anyone else know anything?

The game is called KZ-Manager and was programed for the C64, but it was not released. There are other games like that, but they are all Nazi propaganda! By the way they are all forbidden here in Germany as we have some very restrictive laws when it comes to Nazi symbols, denying the Holocaust, etc. Most of the Nazi-propaganda which circulates in Germany today comes from libaral countries like the USA. An organisation like the NSDAP which is also forbidden in Germany enjoys the freedom of speach in the USA. Most of the Nazi music on the German market comes from Denmark and Sweden. The easiest way to get "Mein Kampf" is to import it from the UK....


Obviously they can't be as successful over there as they are in the UK or America, for obvious reasons... Like, what self respecting German wants to play a game where they are an American shooting their own?

I don't mind shooting Nazis in games and I think every self respecting German should do it! They are not my own and remember that your country paid a high price to liberate Europe from Nazi ocupation. Why shouldn't I play a GI shooting at Nazis?

[lurpak]

I don't think that its a case that "there would be no demand" , more the jewish have very powerful grasp of the media and megacorp and being that it would offend them the game would be pummeld into nothingness as far as marketing is concerned. Which Ironically was the exact thing that gained hitler his support back in the 30s against the jews.

[esquire]

I would definitely play a Nazi death camp simulator game. While they're at they could do a "serious" suicide bomber game too. They could top the trilogy off with a Necro-pedophile game.

Well, we did have Prisoner of War and The Great Escape, while not "death camp" games or games from the enemy's perspective, the developers did put a touchy subject out there. But more to the point, I think you're completely ignoring the original post, which stated:


it wouldn't have to be some kind of empowerment to the ideology or a deathcamp simulator

The poster was referring to games like a FPS. We can already play the Germans in strategy games such as Panzer General, Hearts of Iron, Axis & Allies, etc. There was no uproar over those games.


I really don't see the need for a Nazi game. Not many people have problems with killing Nazi's in game b/c they are scumbags. Why give Washington and groups against gaming more fuel? While I was obviously sarcastic if they made that stuff I would have to play no matter how offensive. Play and not buy. Fuck Nazi's.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

Again, I the poster is not referring to a "Nazi" game where you run a concentration camp, etc., but play as a German in a game like Call of Duty. Washington will raise a stink no matter what game is out there. I am not going to limit the creative ability of software designers based upon what Washington may say about it. If they really wanted to, they could've made a stink over the multiplayer versions of Medal of Honor, Call of Duty and Return to Castle Wolfenstein because you can play as the Germans. Regardless, the games that are truly offensive are merely a flash in the pan. Postal had its 15 minutes of fame, as did Postal 2. I bet in 1 year (let alone 1 month) no one will remember the JFK assassination game that came out a few months ago. The point is, a game can be made to allow a single player German campaign in Call of Duty, if its carefully done.

For example, the character would be in the regular German army, not the Waffen SS. (note to DP members: not all Germans were Nazis). Perhaps the developers can craft the campaign wherein the player is disillusioned with the regime and begins to have anti-Hitler sentiment, or perhaps he was forced to serve in the army. (military service was compulsory, and early in the war, forced upon those sent to camps for political reasons, or criminal reasons). Thus, there are many options to explore, and it can be done. Additionally, there could be some accompanying disclaimer about how the game does not endorse Nazi ideology. They could also put some historical documentation on a companion cd/dvd regarding the Holocaust as an educational tool. Lastly, a portion of the proceeds could be donated to charitable organizations such as the US Holocaust Museum, the Shoah Foundation or other various Holocaust or Veteran related organizations.

[j_eits]

the jewish have very powerful grasp of the media and megacorp

That sounds very strange to me!

[WanganRunner]

I'd like to see a good RTS or FPS based on the Eastern Front, where you could play either the Nazi or the Soviet campaign.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

Obviously they can't be as successful over there as they are in the UK or America, for obvious reasons... Like, what self respecting German wants to play a game where they are an American shooting their own?

omg, i really hope you're not as stupid as that statement makes me think...

1) you are shooting your own in so many games, how can you play "Destroy all Humans (PS2)" ??

2) if you actually mean that we are shooting "our own" when we shoot nazis, then **** yourself. We are NOT shooting ourselves, we've got nothing to do with those bastards

It was worded slightly wrong, that's all.

Most people associate the war with Germany, and not the Nazi's (Which were only one faction - Which happened to actually be the larger at that time) - It's all about stereotypes and not fact.

But it's like games like Viencong and Conflict: Vietnam - Would any Vietnamese want to play such a game? Even though it's only a game, it might not go down too well...


But the subject matter of MOH games is generally Americans / British / French / Dutch vs Germans. But I guess that's American developers doing what Hollywood does with their films - Americanise's the facts to centralise around the Americans, even if it means straying from the truth a little...

They tell the MOH story from their point of view, and their point of view only.

[esquire]

I'd like to see a good RTS or FPS based on the Eastern Front, where you could play either the Nazi or the Soviet campaign.

The Eastern Front was much more brutal than the Western Front. I think it would be harder to incorporate, at least from the standpoint that you are already dealing with a sensitive issue. However, being able to play as the Germans in the Battles for Stalingrad, Kursk, Kharkov, etc. would be interesting.

I would like to see some of the more obscure battles, not only from the German perspective, but from the (for lack a better term) "lesser" powers, such as Finland in the Winter War against the USSR, or the Germans vs Tito's partisans in Yugoslavia.

Addtionally, some of the lesser known campaigns/battles would be nice. I mean, how many times do we need to do a Battle of the Bulge/Bastogne level or Normandy level. What about The Battle of Hurtgen Forest? or the Bridge at Remagen? Those would make for some good levels.

[Ed Oscuro]

I don't think that its a case that "there would be no demand" , more the jewish have very powerful grasp of the media and megacorp and being that it would offend them the game would be pummeld into nothingness as far as marketing is concerned. Which Ironically was the exact thing that gained hitler his support back in the 30s against the jews.
ROFL

One thing that pisses me off to no end is that people equate the Wermacht with the Nazi party. I've read - no idea if it's true, but it might be - that (at least somewhere along the line) generals of the army who were also Nazi party members were something of a rarity, and that these military members weren't allowed to vote. Possibly that was a part of a Nazi deception, but anyhow. There's definitely some culpability on the part of many soldiers, but nationalism always wins out over whistle-blowing, especially in a state like that where dissent was a ticket to an early grave.

I'd like to see a game based on the activities of the early KGB, myself.

[hydr0x]

@Ed Oscuro

yep, Wehrmacht often worked against the Nazis and you should not make the fault to think of both as one unit

[Ed Oscuro]

This is a whole different theater, but I read in "Sony: The Private Life" (damn good book on the company) that at one meeting some guys from the company sang Imperial Army songs at a bar somewhere, at least a few decades after the war ended.

It's really easy to be judgemental of people who had worked for a group that ultimately worked for bad, but I think the disrespect of veterans is unconscionable. I would definitely weigh the needs of war crimes victims against vets - even a reformed veteran - but even there it's against my nature to hate these guys who have moved along and perhaps like to recount the old days with buddies. LOL

[jajaja]

Dont know if it has been mentioned but Battlefield 1942. It do have singleplayer too and you can be a nazi.

[Aswald]

Probably. Look where things have gone in recent years, with games like GTA 3.

Then some knucklehead Godwin-type will invent a "law" about people complaining about the scene where you gather up as many Jews, Union Leaders, Homosexuals (bonus points on that one, due to their small numbers), Gypsies, etc...and bring them to the camps, where you then..."EXTREME, ON-THE-EDGE, REALISTIC FUN!!!" will shout some ugly ad.

Honestly- can't game programmers come up with something original or new without shock value? Or has the "well run dry?"

[ubikuberalles]

What about Chris Crawford's Eastern Front (1941)? It's not an FPS but you are playing the commander of the German armies invading the U.S.S.R.