SICK OF PEOPLE LISTING CRAP GAMES AS MINT!!!! [Archive]

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TEXASGAMEPLAYER

07-09-2005, 05:18 PM

If one more ass lists a used game as mint and it is not! I will lose my mind! What is it that people don't understand? MINT means perfect flawless, if one thing is wrong then it is not MINT. Please if any sellers here are in the habit of listing games as MINT when they have obvious flaws then please block me from you transactions on ebay and everywhere else!!! Do any of you have issues like this? I am sick of this crap on this site and on ebay! I would like to hear your stories and how you resolved the problem.

BrokenFlight

07-09-2005, 05:22 PM

I'm fed up of seeing *RARE* all the time. Most of them aren't even rare, like Super Mario World. I haven't noticed the mint thing myself as I don't seem to come across mint things.

Bronty-2

07-09-2005, 05:23 PM

sounds like a deal didn't go so good, huh? Sorry to hear that..

btw, received your money order for GNG - thanks!

jajaja

07-09-2005, 05:26 PM

People have a diffrent opinion on whats mint is. Wish there was an official list you had to follow on ebay to say if the game is mint or not.

I also hate when people list NES games and say they are complete and when you get it the styrofoam is missing. Where can I buy NES styrofoams btw? Anyone on Ebay selling it?

TEXASGAMEPLAYER

07-09-2005, 05:27 PM

I just got a gold zelda listed as mint and the only difference between what I got and a sealed copy is the plastic wrap is missing, everything is perfect! BUT then I get 5 games listed as MINT and they look like the same crap at gamecrazy, with marker and scratched up labels and noticable flaws. I wish people would be honest because from now on there is no contacting the seller and argueing, it's straight to the NEGATIVE FEEDBACK for me!!!

Jumpman Jr.

07-09-2005, 05:28 PM

I know somebody who is like that on these boards. I don't want to say his name though, because it will probably ruin his reputation, and might hurt further sales.
I'm not picky at all, but I agree with you when you say those things. I don't care if it is in crappy condition, just tell me so I know...know what I'm saying.
If something is mint, great, I'd love a mint game.
But don't tell me it is mint if its not. I don't like that. :angry:

TEXASGAMEPLAYER

07-09-2005, 05:30 PM

(shameless plug for Bronty-2)

BRONTY-2 DOES KNOW WHAT MINT MEANS!!! I have NEVER been disappointed by HIS use of the term! Thanks man, for the exceptional games.

TEXASGAMEPLAYER

07-09-2005, 05:36 PM

ALL the defintions I could find for mint on the internet:

1. mint(a): as if new; "in mint condition"

2. absolutely as new

3. This would be an item that has no flaws.

4. A doll in original condition and appearance just as when it was new. This applies to the clothes, accessories and the doll itself. A restored doll cannot be called mint.

5 .Unused (or appears to be unused), no pinholes, no separations-all paper intact at folds, no fading or cracking of ink.

kaustik

07-09-2005, 05:36 PM

Edit

TEXASGAMEPLAYER beat me to it by seconds.

bazariah

07-09-2005, 05:39 PM

sometimes when i list games on ebay i downscale the quality, i mean 90% of the games i have personally sold have been an 8 out of ten condition wise, but i always list it as lower so people are realy happy to see the nice quality of the condition.. same thing when i randomly decide to sell magazines, i'll list them as a read condition, allthough they are well cared for

i do get ticked off though when buying titles listed as mint and they have dents or marker, i'd rather them say it's a poor condition and be honest instead of them lying to the public

i also get annoyed by the way the term rare is used, mario/duck hunt rare! how the hell is that rare???

maxlords

07-09-2005, 05:48 PM

Yeesh. Calm down. You should ask questions rather than just buying and EXPECTING people to live up to your standards. You don't ask, you get what's coming to you. Many people can't tell the difference between a mint game and a half-decent ex-rental. Just because you can doesn't mean everyone else can. You should see some of the looks I get from people when I tell them what I mean by mint. They simply don't, and I expect CAN'T comprehend. I've stopped expecting them to.

Sniderman

07-09-2005, 05:48 PM

ALL the defintions I could find for mint on the internet:

"All" the definitions, eh?

1. A member of the mint family.

2. Any of various plants of the genus Mentha, characteristically having aromatic foliage and nearly regular flowers. Some plants are cultivated for their aromatic oil and used for flavoring. (ie, spearmint, peppermint, et al)
3. The foliage of some of these plants.
4. Any of various similar or related plants, such as the stone mint.
5. A candy flavored with mint.

:D

MegaDrive20XX

07-09-2005, 05:50 PM

I love it when people don't leave a description...just

"GREAT GAME" with a stock photo....

TEXASGAMEPLAYER

07-09-2005, 05:50 PM

Damion

07-09-2005, 05:52 PM

I had that recently (well a few months back) I bought a lot of phantasy star games Seller Said all three were MINT and Complete. well PS 2's guide had writing all through it and PS4's instruction booklet cover was aparently replaced with paper with a hand written [Phantasy Star Four] On the Cover. and the cart was in Shit condention (It had rental Stickers all across it)

heres the Auction and his dumbass.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8172595173

I still can't belive I left a nice positive. what I should have done was complain in a e-mail instead of kicking myself right now.

TEXASGAMEPLAYER

07-09-2005, 05:53 PM

I DO ask questions and still get the "perfect mint" line from them when it is NOT mint. I even have a standard letter I send that asks about scratching, peeling, writing, loss of shine,ect.

Cmosfm

07-09-2005, 06:06 PM

I have money to spend on games and I am very close to completing my nes and n64 collection and only want MINT and SEALED copies. But the problem is not that I don't have the money to finish it but finding honest sellers to buy them from. If I can not use mint as a reference then it is just blind luck what I am bidding on and at this point I will spend another year to finish my collection (BTW look at my want list in the buying and selling forum!) SO CLOSE but I am getting crap lately in the mail!!!

You're a sealed collector eh?

That explains it.

Bronty-2 is cool, really cool, but most of the other sealed collector's I have dealt with have been MAJOR FUCKING PAINS IN MY ASS.

They'll get the game, comb it with a magnifying glass, and if there's just ONE TINY SCRATCH on the plastic somewhere they'll throw a little hissy fit and demand a refund. I always get this, always, to the point that I don't even want to sell sealed games anymore when I get them. I can't put up with the incessant whining and crying I get from the buyers over something that I overlooked because I obviously don't have these special Sealed Collector 100X magnifying glasses.

And I don't even list as MINT unless I have one that I'm for a fact sure that it is.

Sealed collectors expect a game to look minty fresh from a factory case despite the fact that it's 20 years old.

EDIT: This isn't an attack on sealed collector, I've backed up the hobby of collecting sealed games before and I'll do so in the future. Please don't misunderstand me.

BrokenFlight

07-09-2005, 06:07 PM

I just remembered some mint auctions I've seen. They were selling cart only and called them mint. If they really were mint they'd have the box and everything with them. At best cartridges can only be described as very good condition, not that there's much to go wrong with them.

segarocks30

07-09-2005, 06:12 PM

I went through it too.I got a Streets of rage 2 cartridge on Ebay and description said it was mint.When i get it in the mail i see a little bit of the paper on the cartridge was off.I swear people are dumbasses.

TEXASGAMEPLAYER

07-09-2005, 06:18 PM

if I get a sealed game and it is not listed as mint then I would have to accept it as it comes. But if it is listed mint then I would expect MINT. And I don't think that I am a "pain in the ass" I will over look somethings but overall I expect mint to be MINT. I am done now I am off to look at a sealed, mint raiden project for sale!!

Bronty-2

07-09-2005, 06:22 PM

Cmosfm

07-09-2005, 06:27 PM

slip81

07-09-2005, 06:38 PM

Couldn't it be argued that nothing is truly mint. No matter what there will always be some type of flaw on something, there are even some grading systems that reflect it.

Like comics, you'll never see a mint value for one, because in the world of comic collecting once its been handled, it becomes near mint at best.

TheRedEye

07-09-2005, 07:21 PM

I bought a mint space invaders and got a restored doll :angry:

Yago

07-09-2005, 07:57 PM

Yeah, Ebay has gone to shit. I remember years ago you had several emails between the seller/buyer. Now, you can't even get a responce from sellers. It was a good way to meet people too, which I still speak with some people today I met through Ebay transactions. I hate the whole "RARE" or "MINT" deal. I never say either. How stupid do these sellers think we are anyway? Do you think I am going to bid on their crap because they are "Getting back at my boyfriend so selling his games" or, "selling these for my son." I also love when they try to sell items like this one idiot who was selling a Dreamcast for $60 when everyone else is selling them for $15-$25. Seriously, good luck getting a bid from a blind person.

NESVIDIOT

07-09-2005, 08:02 PM

This is also like a lot of listers on E-bay, that aren't collectors or even gamers for that matter, that list games and systems as mint NIB then you get the item and something is missing or the controller cords are wrapped around the controllers. NIB = NEW IN BOX=never been used ever. Mint= like new condition and complete, but opened. I do think though that most videogame collectors are very particular about their games when they are spending big coin for a rareity. They could at least decribe the item and picture it as best as possible for the buyer. I've had similar problems on e-bay before too. Luckily some of the sellers I've talked to afterwards were nice enough to credit me back a little to offset my dissapointment. Sometimes it works out....

Slimedog

07-09-2005, 08:05 PM

I don't think I would buy off of Ebay if I wanted actual mint. Every mint game I've ever ordered has been near mint. When I sell on Ebay, I list as complete or near mint, but never mint. When I buy, I assume mint means near mint, even if they explicitly state otherwise. Of course I also don't expect them to get my order right at McDonalds either. Lowering my expectations has done wonders for my blood pressue.

Roi

07-09-2005, 08:13 PM

I hate it to! Especially the ones that say MINT! and on the foto you see it's only a cartridge ! :hmm:

Cmosfm

07-09-2005, 08:17 PM

I hate it to! Especially the ones that say MINT! and on the foto you see it's only a cartridge ! :hmm:

I think you are confusing the words MINT and COMPLETE.

Roi

07-09-2005, 10:21 PM

vincewy

07-09-2005, 10:38 PM

I have similar problems on eBay with Dreamcast games, 6-8 months ago you can get plenty of truely new/sealed games, now all I see are some notorious resealed game sellers.

eBay has gone to hell, period! Many good sellers don't want to put up with eBay anymore and left (raised fees, double margins on Paypal, little to no online support), this leaves some of the worst people (buyers/sellers) out there, I just had one auction which the seller doesn't accept anything other than Paypal and can't even conjugate/spell words correctly, I won't even care now if I get negative feedback(s) at this point.

drewbrim

07-09-2005, 11:02 PM

I hate it to! Especially the ones that say MINT! and on the foto you see it's only a cartridge ! :hmm:

I think you are confusing the words MINT and COMPLETE.

No I'm not, people on the Dutch Ebay are! The say they have a mint item but when you look there's only a gamecartridge.

Why does something have to be complete to be mint?

Anyways, I think I'm in the minority here. The average ebayer that sells video games (or anything really) doesn't care much about their winning bidders happiness or satisfaction, only their final bid amount. So if listing something as "mint" as opposed to "good condition" nets them a few extra dollars then that's obviously the route they are going to go.

Which leads to the rest of us (assuming we are all honest sellers). Why should our auction listings for Lunar Eternal Blue or whatnot end for $20 less then the moron above us? Because if we list every single scratch and ding that's exactly what will happen. So our choices are

A. List everything in perfect detail, lose $20 even though the auction next to mine sold for more since he/she used the word "mint" in the title and my copy is in much better shape. But I get to sleep well at night knowing I did the right thing trying to change the world of ebay 1 auction at a time.

B. List as "mint", become $20 dollars richer, and still end up with a satisfied customer since he/she didn't know any better or maybe even care to begin with.

Sorry for the sarcastic choice A, but the point I'm trying to make is why should we hurt our own sales when our stuff is probably in better shape anyway.

If your dying for mint stuff then just buy it here (I know you're trying :) ) or from people you trust. When I sell stuff here I don't treat it as an ebay auction. I mention scratches and dings because I know that people here care about that. But on ebay if you can't beat em, join em. If someone is truly concerned about it then they will ask a specific question and I will respond.

For the record I would never try to pass something off as mint if there were stickers, damage, or writing on the object, whether you can see it in the scan or not. But if my cart of Final Fantasy lookds perfect to the naked eye then it will be listed as mint.

Bronty-2

07-10-2005, 01:17 AM

[quote=TEXASGAMEPLAYER]

Bronty-2 is cool, really cool, but most of the other sealed collector's I have dealt with have been MAJOR FUCKING PAINS IN MY ASS.

Aw shucks.. thank chris :embarrassed: I was happy to see you get your BIN on that sealed Zelda, btw 8-) 500 clams is worth one of these :D

cheers

Thanks, my god I still feel like crap having to sell it, but bills are piling up this month and it was either that or, well, I don't know what. :(

I really planned on keeping it this time, maybe I'll find another down the line. :D

You never know. Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll be surprised by what you find. I know I've found some stuff I never expected to find.

It sucks when you have to sell something you wanted to keep, but at least you did really well money-wise on both of them. Good luck on #3!

SuperNES

07-10-2005, 01:20 AM

This auction is for the rare, vintage game cartridge Super Mario Bros./Duck Hunt

holy crap. what has the world come to? :(

mills

07-10-2005, 01:45 AM

I totally agree with this, when I purchased a FF3 cart on ebay, the description was "Like new!" Now, my definition of like new is that it looks like it is brand new or just bought, hardly used etc. When I got my FF3 cart in the mail it had the name "HOWARD" written in permanent marker on the front, the sticker had deep heavy scratches and the ever so present round indentation in the middle of the label.

Lothars

07-10-2005, 02:21 AM

I can understand how you guys feel, and I agree the only time mint should be in the auction is if it's mint

otherwise no way should mint be in the options

kevincure

07-10-2005, 03:29 AM

Games are strange this way, and it's mainly because the big vg sellers on ebay are dicks. I collect old (19th c. usually) maps and atlases, and there are a number of quality, reliable Power Sellers who fairly grade their product, provide good service and care about repeat sales. There are few such sellers in used videogames.

That said, I don't think "the rest of us" need to go the dishonest route. I don't sell much anymore, but I used to sell only higher-end or rarer items under a specific name. I graded everything honestly and provided support. Not only did I sell a number of items for well above the going rate to repeat customers, I had emails asking me to track down other rare games for which I was well compensated. There's room for both boutiques and big box stores in the world.

Push Upstairs

07-10-2005, 04:44 AM

I've always enjoyed the use of the "word" L@@K in an auctions title.

:P

ozyr

07-10-2005, 08:19 AM

On ebay, Mint can mean anything. I found that out the hard way. If you don't ask what the seller means by 'mint', ebay does nothing about it. Of course, they usually don't do anything anyway...

Personally, I think 'Mint in Box' means that there is an actual mint hidden in the box - the kind of mint you eat.

TEXASGAMEPLAYER

07-10-2005, 09:31 AM

drewbrim said:

"Anyways, I think I'm in the minority here. The average ebayer that sells video games (or anything really) doesn't care much about their winning bidders happiness or satisfaction, only their final bid amount. So if listing something as "mint" as opposed to "good condition" nets them a few extra dollars then that's obviously the route they are going to go.

Which leads to the rest of us (assuming we are all honest sellers). Why should our auction listings for Lunar Eternal Blue or whatnot end for $20 less then the moron above us? Because if we list every single scratch and ding that's exactly what will happen. So our choices are

A. List everything in perfect detail, lose $20 even though the auction next to mine sold for more since he/she used the word "mint" in the title and my copy is in much better shape. But I get to sleep well at night knowing I did the right thing trying to change the world of ebay 1 auction at a time.

B. List as "mint", become $20 dollars richer, and still end up with a satisfied customer since he/she didn't know any better or maybe even care to begin with.

Sorry for the sarcastic choice A, but the point I'm trying to make is why should we hurt our own sales when our stuff is probably in better shape anyway.

If your dying for mint stuff then just buy it here (I know you're trying ) or from people you trust. When I sell stuff here I don't treat it as an ebay auction. I mention scratches and dings because I know that people here care about that. But on ebay if you can't beat em, join em. If someone is truly concerned about it then they will ask a specific question and I will respond.

For the record I would never try to pass something off as mint if there were stickers, damage, or writing on the object, whether you can see it in the scan or not. But if my cart of Final Fantasy lookds perfect to the naked eye then it will be listed as mint."

DO ME A FAVOR AND BLOCK ME FROM YOUR AUCTIONS.
I AM REALLY SERIOUS, I DON'T WANT TO MAKE THE MISTAKE OF BIDDING ON YOUR STUFF!!!

drewbrim

07-10-2005, 09:56 AM

DO ME A FAVOR AND BLOCK ME FROM YOUR AUCTIONS.
I AM REALLY SERIOUS, I DON'T WANT TO MAKE THE MISTAKE OF BIDDING ON YOUR STUFF!!!

DO ME A FAVOR AND LAY OFF YOUR CAPS LOCK!!! I wasn't trying to be a jerk, just offering my opinion on the majority of ebay sellers. To me the stuff I list as mint, is mint. No marks, gorgeous label, etc... but go ahead and send your ebay id along as I would hate to get into a email war over a $1 copy of NES golf because of a finger print.

TEXASGAMEPLAYER

07-10-2005, 11:55 AM

my ebay id is the same as here TEXASGAMEPLAYER

DeputyMoniker

07-10-2005, 01:28 PM

I know somebody who is like that on these boards. I don't want to say his name though, because it will probably ruin his reputation, and might hurt further sales.

It's cool. You don't have to tell us his name because if you were unhappy with the transaction then I'll find your negative feedback in the feedback thread before I do business with him. You DID leave honest feedback didn't you?

Doonzmore

07-10-2005, 08:19 PM

[quote="TEXASGAMEPLAYER"]I have money to spend on games and I am very close to completing my nes and n64 collection and only want MINT and SEALED copies.[quote]

As a n64 collector i see exactly were your coming from with this, n64 boxes are a absolute bitch to find in perfect condition. All of mine have at least a few minor dents here and there but i still considered them to be mint. But then again, I've never sold anything on ebay to worry about listing conditions.

Daria

07-10-2005, 10:00 PM

Why is it when we have these threads people always jump in to defend the vague ebay definitions of otherwise easy to understand terms. Makes me picture you lot as a bunch of sellers with guilty consciences.

Mint was a term pertaining to the condition of collectables long before ebay came around and it's certainly not limited to video games.

Mint equals flawless condition, and when someone writes in thier description that thier item is mint that means something. Just because the majority of sellers abuse the term doesn't make it right, and it doesn't give you the go ahead to lie in your auctions as well.

Of course due to the high ratio of dishonest sellers, you should always confirm the condition of the item you're planing to buy. And we all know mint in the subject title's just as much a lure as the terms "rare" or "l@@k". But generally if a seller's going to write mint in the item's description I'd better not recieve a game in the mail that's torn, dirty, warped, creased or covered with stickers. That's just flat out lying.

ozyr

07-11-2005, 12:00 AM

A. List everything in perfect detail, lose $20 even though the auction next to mine sold for more since he/she used the word "mint" in the title and my copy is in much better shape. But I get to sleep well at night knowing I did the right thing trying to change the world of ebay 1 auction at a time.

B. List as "mint", become $20 dollars richer, and still end up with a satisfied customer since he/she didn't know any better or maybe even care to begin with.

I always go with A - I just feel that an item should be listed 'exactly' the way it is. I detail everything, down to minor scratches and such. I just would not feel right doing it any other way. If I lose a little money, so what. Honest ebay sellers get a reputation, and repeat buyers (at least that is how it works with me - if I buy from someone and they deliver exactly what was described, I put them in my 'favorite' seller list).

DeputyMoniker

07-11-2005, 04:22 AM

(shameless plug for Bronty-2)

BRONTY-2 DOES KNOW WHAT MINT MEANS!!! I have NEVER been disappointed by HIS use of the term! Thanks man, for the exceptional games.

Okay, it isn't Bronty-2...well the only other feedback you've left is for tynstar and it goes as follows:
"I bought a game box from him and it was MINT. Thank you VERY much. Very fast shipper also!"

I hate to turn this around on you but if you arent warning other people as to your personal experience with others then dont expect anybody to start being honest with you. You say you're ready to start leaving negative feedback...I say it's about time you got onboard.

Fuyukaze

07-11-2005, 04:47 AM

Back when I used not have a job I would sell off a few games at a time for bill money. I'd always try to describe the games condition down to the smallest detail, but eventualy got tired of the bitching and whining. Once people understood the CD had a swirl that was only noticible from holding it at the right angle, they would demand half off what ever the asking price. Once they found out the jewl case wasnt in perfect condition and had scratches on the outside case, they would expect even more. It didnt matter that the game worked perfectly, it didnt matter that the instruction manuel was in perfect condition. Even when the game only had 1 swirl, all the documentation was included, and wasnt even being listed as mint or even near mint. Thats why I try not to deal with investment game colectors. Now days, I deal with people who understand that once a game has been played its never going to truely be mint again. People who actualy buy games because they plan to play them, not sell them 20 years down the road to pay for their retirment or their kids college.

Poofta!

07-11-2005, 04:57 AM

are you a puppet, just ask questions like "are there any creases, dents, etc etc)" and look carefully at the picture. words like mint and rare are just there to attract attention, be smart about what youre bidding on. lots of greatness to be had on ebay, just gotta know how to look and dont let the bastards get to ya? =]

Nesmaster

07-11-2005, 05:35 AM

This kinda happened to me before. Found an auction for Ninja Gaiden 3 for a great price, without a picture. Emailed him before buying and asked what condition the cart label was in. When he said awesome i immediately bought it. Some weeks later i get a package in the mail. He sent my game in a used french toast sticks box. That didnt bother me, but when i saw the game thats when i was bothered. The game label had a huge chunk mising, the end label was half ripped off, and the protective plastic on the label was ripped off completely. Terrible contacts also. I just left feedback saying got the game fine and that was it. After that i learned to not win auctions without pics unless it was an EXTREMELY good deal.

hey, at least ninja gaiden 3 worked i guess :/

Sylentwulf

07-11-2005, 06:07 AM

If you want something in collector's quality mint, you need to make sure there's a picture in the auction, and you look at it.This is like the arguement for overcharging shipping. Once one person does it, everyone else has to do it in order to keep sales even.

Yeah, I listed most of my systems as "mint" or "looks new" etc... even when they don't sometimes. I only do it with systems, not individual games, but I ALWAYS include pictures with all of my items, and they're CLEAR, so anyone who ends up complaining that the item they got looks like crap has only to go back and LOOK at the damn auction to be proven wrong.

Don't mean to be defensive of the seller the OP is referring to or anything, but it should be pretty obvious to ask questions and LOOK before you BUY.

scorch56

07-11-2005, 06:32 AM

Mint is a relative term to many people; but I say as I've said before (and that's how I avoid ANY disappointment.). For me.. there is only one kind of "mint" game.. like a coin.. it is sealed & un-circulated. What's that mean to me? yup.. factory sealed; and nothing less.

Mind you.. I'm not a FS elitist.. in fact.. I have very FEW "mint" games in my collection then (take a look).. as I like to play my games; but when I'm on eBay buying.. I simply ignore the word "mint" in any weighing of a decision to buy. Simply because I know no one else agrees with my concept. If I WANT a "mint" game.. I look for a sealed one.. plain & simple, and no disappointment.

I use other methods on eBay to avoid diappointment over games "overly" listed as "mint" or "rare". I rarely buy any game that is listed without a photo, and "said" photo must be original and not "stock" or dupiclated as well. If I am the slightest bit in questionable doubt about a seller's description.. and it is important to me (it isn't always.. if the price is right for the rarity and condition).. I ask (i.e. e-mail). Think about what the word "mint" means to you in other terms.. and then look for them. In other words.. as some people said.. they get mad when a game listed as mint is not complete.. then look for "complete" in the listing. Does mint to you mean mostly "clean"?.. then look for that.. etc.

As for "rare".. that's also a relative term (even here on DP.. WITH a rarity guide).. so I just "do my homework" when researching the "HTF" factor (and yes.. some argue that rarity and HTF are even different).

Lastly.. complete.. I'm equally as picky there. If you look at my listed collection on IGN.. I never describe any of my games as complete.. I simply list what's in them and their condition. I.. as a collector.. can't possibly know every paper item that was packed in every game (i.e. maps, posters, reg cards, etc.).. so.. once again I avoid disappointment by not putting much credence in the word "complete" on eBay. Although DP's online rarity guide is an excellent place to start when researching original game "pack-ins" I get the feeling it can't possibly encompass everything in that regard as well.. likewise.. I don't expect any eBay "semi-amateur" seller to posses such a vast amount of knowledge. So for instance.. when I see a dealer describe Phantasy Star II on eBay as complete because it has a cart, case & manual; and I know that PS II came with a map AND hint book as well (it says "hint book included" on the front of EVERY PS II case I've EVER seen.. DUH!!).. I simply ignore it.

5 years on eBay, and 600+ transactions later and I can safely say that just as my feedback; I've been satisfied about 99.4% of the time.

As for the people who frequent this forum.. I've dealt with several of them by now (although nowhere near as many as my eBay transactions) and I've NEVER been disappointed by anyone here. People who can't or don't use pictures here.. give very accurate descriptions.. being mostly collectors.

One last thing to remember.. here in this forum most people are collectors who occasionally sell a bit here and there. On eBay.. most "big number" sellers are simply dealers.. and I doubt if they're collectors (90% of the time) anymore.. they're in it for the money and not the passion ("cliche'".. I know).. keep that in mind and you won't be disappointed again.