hardest games NOT involving the use of insane reflexes

[pragmatic insanester]

yeah, thought of this at work a few days ago. should be interesting, as most of the hardest games involve horrible twitch-and-die sequences. i'm guessing games with difficult puzzles or something will be thrown in here.

[imanerd0011]

yeah, thought of this at work a few days ago. should be interesting, as most of the hardest games involve horrible twitch-and-die sequences. i'm guessing games with difficult puzzles or something will be thrown in here.

Fire N Ice maybe? I always thought that it was a pretty difficult game, and I sure never came close to beating it.

[The_4th_Survivor]

Good question.

I would have to say that the old "Soukoban" or "Boxxle" type of puzzle games require a really creative and intuitive person to master the later levels.

This also applies for the old GameBoy title "Daedalian Opus".

Damn, that game is so simple and easy to pick up and play, but so damned difficult at times.

[slip81]

the first Alundra had some wicked puzzles in it.

[TheRedEye]

I always thought Monkey Island 2 was pretty brutal.

Monkey wrench. Go to hell, Gilbert.

[Ronfar]

Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga

Words can not describe how annoyingly difficult that game is.

[nate1749]

I find that the hardest games are rpg/adventure types where you will have to go find certain items to continue. I will spend hours searching and searching then just give up. Very frustrating.

I never got through Lands of Lore (PC) or Resident Evi (psx) or even the first Zelda (NES - was a little kid, just remember being stuck on last level) because of this. I guess I should learn to just go get a guide or find the answer online, but that feels like cheating to me.

Nate

[pragmatic insanester]

heh. was the RE puzzle the one where the key was hidden inside a book you had to look at sideways? stumped me for several months back in the day.

[Kroogah]

Advance Wars. Guh.

Mario's Super Picross, specifically the Wario Picross levels.

[jajaja]

I find Lolo 2 for NES pretty hard. Atleast when you get far into the game. Dont know about Lolo 1 or 3, havnt played them that much, but I guess they are just as hard.

[Satac]

Some chess programs are able to beat even professional chess players. There is no way for a normal player to beat them...

[Lemmy Kilmister]

Oh mannnn. I was going to say the Lolo games but it looks like jajaja beat me to it. Guess I'll throw in a vote for the first two Phantasy Star games instead. It's not that they were difficult, just confusing and hard to get through without any sort of map or walk through to help you out.

[AlexKidd]

The first Zelda for nes was pretty tough when I was a kid with no walkthrough or strategy guide. And the dungeons in Phantasy Star for sms were pretty insane without using dungeon maps.

[Haoie]

I second Alundra. Crazy how some people can make it through without guides. I mean, puzzles shouldn't stump you for that long.

I guess the frustration makes you want more.

[boatofcar]

I'd vote for old school RPG's, where you have to talk to the one random person just for the game to change in a way that allows you to continue. I've never been as frustrated as when that happens.

[Aussie2B]

The battles in Lufia 2 weren't too bad, but some of those puzzles were brutal.

And Tactics Ogre is an evil, EVIL strategy RPG. :P

[Gundam_Pilot_]

cmon guys games like shadowgate, deja vu, and uninvited are all super tough. i love the games though (all nes games btw)

[pkupstixx]

Ill second the Deja Vu,Shadowgate and Uninvited. Plus i'll add the infocom library. Some of these text adventures went from easy to insane difficulty. No flick and twich nerves here just lots of thinking.Plus Infocom had one of the earliest(if not the first im not sure)mech games in cresent hawk.

[emumuumuucowgomoo]

yeah, thought of this at work a few days ago. should be interesting, as most of the hardest games involve horrible twitch-and-die sequences. i'm guessing games with difficult puzzles or something will be thrown in here.

How about those Kings Quest games designed by that furry toothed elitist troll, Roberta "Satan" Williams? Or her sapphic sister succubu in training, Jane Jensen and the impossibly convoluted Gabriel Knight: The Beast Within?

Though my vote for the hardest non-twitch game of all time would probably come down to a battle between the "WTF" logic of Castlevania 2 (my vote) and the "WTF" logic of "Nord and Bert Couldn't Make Heads or Tails of It" - the latter being a CLASSIC IF game released in the early 80s if memory serves me correctly. You have to be thinking in puns and wordgames to make any headway - example (ripped from http://www.sparkynet.com/spag/n.html#nord):


You wake up, knocking over your alarm clock and a glass of water.
The only way to avoid the debris is to get up on the wrong side of the bed.
Asked to mail your father's tax return, you discover you can't find it. But that scruffy guy in the corner with the IRS tee shirt, who you're told is barely male can be transmogrified with the homonym "mail". The return isn't
stamped? You can fix that by Spoonerizing your father's stone lamp into a lone stamp. And so on.


It's awesome, I love it, it requires some "outside the box" thinking and probably wouldn't do very well for an audience weaned at the teat of Final "OMG YOU HAVE TO GET THE STONE IN THE DUNGEON WACKY PUZZLE" Fantasy thinkers. But ah well.

[felix]

A lot of the puzzle games get me flared up :angry:

[Sosage]

I'll second the good ole' Infocom titles (my personal fav has always been "The Lurking Horror"). They're probably the least twitch intensive games you'll ever encounter and make for a great alternative when you feel like curling up to a book at the same time.

I'll second Advance Wars just because turn based strat games, as a genre, don't require real time reactions (and...well...it is a great game series...even though I don't think either game was very difficult). Speaking of...are there any big turn based strat guys in the house? Not to thread jack, but do any of you have any recs?

[Lothars]

Well I always found ghost and goblins very hard,

wait i think that's the name of the game hmm...not sure now..

[jajaja]

Well I always found ghost and goblins very hard,

wait i think that's the name of the game hmm...not sure now..

Your right about G&G being a very hard game, but it doesnt really require much thinking. Just reflexes, skills and practice :)

[Sotenga]

If Solstice qualifies, that's my nomination. It doesn't kill you with blazingly fast traps and grueling boss battles... no, it attacks you with a fubar isometric perspective and poor control as a result! Plus, the quest to find the six staff pieces is just one freaking huge castle that's almost impossible to navigate. Okay, so there's a map, but it doesn't help me as much as I'd like it to. Shit, me and another board member even coined the term "Solstice-hard!" x_x

[dieourumov]

I vote all three games in the lolo series...unbelieveably hard.

[Damon Plus]

I always thought Monkey Island 2 was pretty brutal.

Monkey wrench. Go to hell, Gilbert.

Yes. That puzzle was even harder if you didn´t know English and couldn´t understand the "joke"

[nate1749]

My friend says Another World is impossible w/o save states. I only tried it on GBA and I just died too easily everytime.

I'm sure the key inside the book was the one I was looking forin Resident Evil. I just remember it was a big grey dungeon looking door that I think went outside or to another part of the mansion, was never able to find the key.... maybe I'll start playing that again.

Nate

[anagrama]

eh, I don't consider myself to be *that* great a gamer, but I'm surprised to see a few games I've finished mentioned in here. :)

How about the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy text adventure? (or is that already covered by Sosage's post? Can't remember if it was Infocom or not). I know people who spent months or even years being unable to get out of the first room on that one.

[sabre2922]

Driver 3 has a couple missions that got my blood boiling :angry: of course it has some major glitches too what a missed opportunity :/

Maybe next time Reflections

[smork]

I'll second Advance Wars just because turn based strat games, as a genre, don't require real time reactions (and...well...it is a great game series...even though I don't think either game was very difficult). Speaking of...are there any big turn based strat guys in the house? Not to thread jack, but do any of you have any recs?

Neither of the Advance Wars games are too terribly hard, until you try to replay them in that durn advance mode, or try to get an S ranking on everything. If you're content with a 'scorched earth' approach and are content with B rankings then they are easy...

I do have the new "Famicom Wars DS" - the Japanese version of the upcoming Advance Wars title for the DS, and it's pretty nice as well, though I have yet to finish it.

I'd also give votes to the Nectaris series for difficulty. Neo Nectaris for the TurboDuo is rough, rough. Just like a good turn based game should be. I see they released in Japan a new version of Nectaris for mobile phones. Wish I had it!

[Milk]

Y halo thar Nethack!

I think if you ever did a Venn diagram of gamers and perverts, Roguelike fans would coincide exactly with masochists. Those bastards who beat Nethack so easily that they have to make up their own challenges and hold contests make me want to break my keyboard in two.