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View Full Version : Jade Empire - great, but short and flawed (spoilers?)



Ed Oscuro
07-16-2005, 07:01 PM
I'm fresh out of having beaten the game with Scholar Ling (customized to be more balanced; I just liked the character look), taking the Way of the Open Palm to its extreme and playing on Master, always using Master (the default) difficulty. The first observation I record must be that I was very surprised the end came so quickly. IGN gave this game a 9.9. I don't know if this helps put it in perspective for everybody, but they gave Resident Evil 4 (of course a totally different game) a 9.8 where I felt that was the better game by far. IGN's stat box also displays the game's press average of 8.9, which I feel is more in line with what the game deserves.

The game's strongest points are the visuals and (most of) the characters inhabiting that world, especially your followers (unfortunately, the most vocal ones tend to be agitating). The game has a great deal of humor, helping to offset the many failed attempts at pathos.

Let me level with you - when I first saw Knights of the Old Republic on the Xbox, I ridiculed it (along with another friend) the whole time (of course the guy playing it was sitting there slack-jawed not giving any indication he heard us, so that helped the overall impression). Bioware's attempts at fleshing out the story are once again mixed. There is indeed one rather startling plot twist late in the game, and I'd say that was worth the whole adventure...somewhat. Everything else goes to waste, however - so many unusual ideas and colorful characters go to waste in an incredibly short ending. I honestly feel more thought went into making the hillarious credits voiceovers done by the game characters (check out Master Li's, the last one - "punch a mountain, IN SPACE.")

The game's system doesn't feel right (though I am pleased that it is more or less truly real-time fighting); in this first playthrough I've found that enemy encounters (outside of Lost Spirit encounters in the Necropolis) seem to be strictly tied to story events. I didn't advance much father than level 21, and there are no expansive fields to wander through, beating up anybody who comes your way. The fighting system and camera are clumsy, but servicable - just keep dodging and things will right themselves again. You'll also discover that fights don't necessarily get incredibly harder the farther you advance, which I think is a major issue.

I know it's fun to say "I don't think the designers put much effort into this," but I do get the feeling when it comes to fights, and actually animation in general. Whenever a character is running towards a target, they awkwardly run in bursts and slowly turn, Resident Evil-style, a few degrees and then try again. It is aggravating to have to wait while your character goes through this ridiculous routine just to break open a jar. I'll explain the fighting style a bit more later, but it can be incredibly testing to fight a character that replenishes it health and takes different forms, but there is only one character that really takes this far - the top fighter in the Arena, who has three stages or forms. Then, of course, the characters with supposedly god-like powers simply crumble within seconds when you unleash Jade Golem or even a freaking musket on them. There's also a flying minigame, which is, as far as vertical shooters go, not too bad. There was a pretty awesome boss fight in there, as well, but you face this long before some other, less-intense flying sequences much later on. It doesn't make sense. The hardest stuff is over and done with hours and hours before the final confrontation. Now, assuming you actually follow through and reach these tough fights, and get owned a few times, you'll have to wait through a long loading screen. At the Arena, this means you'll have to wait through TWO long loading screens (one for the interior of the Arena, where you talk to Qui the Promoter - greatest character in the history of ever, by the by - and the second to start the fight) and then wait through the (intentionally, but still annoying) hoarse announcer as well.

PURE HELL.

Perhaps that's why it feels short - by the time you've struggled through some tough fights ready for some challenge, there really isn't any given. Sure, what you'll see later LOOKS more epic, but it's not, really. Most challenge later on comes from swarms of enemies, and single characters who should be incredible drop dead.

Combat was mostly enjoyable, with lots of jumping around and watching your two attack bars (magic and "focus," used for weapons such as staves or the Outlander's gun). You don't have the chance to just force your way through a battle by the sheer force of the items you carry; your actual skill at manipulating the various fighting styles you are instructed in and have leveled up within strict restraints is what is being measured.

This would be more positive if you didn't end up punching air so often; your character is locked into finishing a three-hit combo when you have hit the buttons fast enough. Second, the restorative style, Spirit Thief, helps you regain your magic meter (it's called Chi), but it's incredibly weak even when pumped up to the max. Well, I skipped out on Direct Damage - that allows you to use magic and do damage with the style, instead of recovering magic; this is a big waste of time as I see it. It's also weak. This is a big part of strategy, and sadly it's incredibly underpowered. You'll have to score combo hits on an enemy dozens of times to recover anything notable in any amount of time, which wastes time and of course opens you up to more damage. There's also a long-range spirit stealing attack here, yes. Of course, this attack doesn't really seem to steal magic at all; frightful enemies seemed to fight much the way as before and this doesn't really have any effect on what they do. Bioware's bungling hands have reduced a classic standby, spiritual vampirism, to a necessary evil. (There may be a life-stealing attack available for those on the "evil" low path, at The Black Leopard School, but it likely is even further marginalized, if indeed it really exists as I think it does.)

The camera can also be frustrating, as is the unwieldly target switching function (the shoulder buttons allow you to switch targets, or - a function I never adopted - drop the lock-on and just swing at anything closeby, hoping to do damage, which is even worse because the best way to fight in any RPG, anyone can tell you, is to focus on eliminating enemies one at a time (plus targeting lets you see the health meter of enemies, gasp!)

Dialogue ranges from great to absolutely inane. Lots of repetition of "important" plot points by the main critter you're helping out. Here's a startling revelation: the Fallout games had a nice helping of conversation recorded by actors, and they didn't force you to pick from among three options that have the exact same effect. Here's the gist of three dialogue options I got late in the game:

You're bad
You're bad and you abandoned your family
I don't want to talk anymore with you!

Only the last option will give you a different first response, and then the character launches into what they were going to say regardless. Many times the three options are identical, in fact. There are often kinder options and "GRR SMASH ANGRY" options (when I hovered over the latter, Scholar Ling's face contorts into a rather ugly grimace, so I didn't continue down that path) that are really pretty silly. Jade Empire mixes your three base stats - nice how they boiled it down like that - in twos to get your three conversation skills (charm, intuition, and intimidation), but this is pretty darn limited. Feels like I'm playing the whole game with a darn IN 6 character. It's wretched to fail an intuition attempt because the character wasn't going to listen to reason, and because your choice wasn't intuitive anyway.

This next bit is quite strange, but as mentioned before there aren't any power leveling opportunities to speak of. There's a map of the Jade Empire you can see now and then to fly about on, and there are only two destinations for travel on it - Tien's Landing and the Imperial City - though strangely there are many more destinations to be had in the game, that you must go to. This makes sense in a strange way because your Flyer (aircraft) needs landing spots, but it also reinforces the fact that while you go a decent number of places on missions, you don't have very many cities to visit that have a variety of people to deal with (though, as mentioned before, these include many of those tired, foolish "We were so wrong to fight, lettuce make up, plz" sob stories that seem to be Bioware's trademark).

At this point I'm rambling, but I need to mention that there are some discussions of adult themes which are strangely unfitting of the game - for example, there's a reluctant S&M mistress in The Arena who discusses her client! And then I can turn around and talk about dumb things with another character. It doesn't make sense.

Of course, there are many great things to see in the game. Later on you'll have chances to control a few different characters from your party directly; check out The Black Whirlwind's notes and completed quests (from his past; use the Filter button to see them). Hillarious.

One sorta final note: Bioware obviously doesn't think much of our collective intelligence with this fake language they're trying to foist off on us. The first few times you hear it in action you should notice that it's actually the same exact phrase, and there's no correlation between the length of the translated text and the actual voice clip. In other words, what they say really doesn't seem to mean anything.

Overall, this game deserves about a 90, certainly no higher given the shortness and the complete failure to develop anything properly. For goodness' sake, the hardest boss in the game is before you even start the path that leads to the endgame, before you reach the final boss area (for the first time, if that makes sense).

I'd still recommend the game, because there are some really lovable characters here, well, the few they didn't forget about. And it looks pretty good, mostly! Just be aware there's a lot of unnecessary dumbness and missed chances.

petewhitley
07-17-2005, 08:38 PM
One sorta final note: Bioware obviously doesn't think much of our collective intelligence with this fake language they're trying to foist off on us. The first few times you hear it in action you should notice that it's actually the same exact phrase, and there's no correlation between the length of the translated text and the actual voice clip. In other words, what they say really doesn't seem to mean anything.

That's strange, because I read an interview where they were blowing up the fact that they had some linguist develop an actual workable language for the game. Anywho, thanks for your mini-review. I have yet to play the full game (the demo left me a bit ... blah), and your comments pretty much ensure I'll wait till it hit's Platinum Hits or whatever to pick it up.

Lemmy Kilmister
07-17-2005, 09:11 PM
your comments pretty much ensure I'll wait till it hit's Platinum Hits or whatever to pick it up.


It's already 29 dollars new at most stores.

petewhitley
07-17-2005, 09:32 PM
your comments pretty much ensure I'll wait till it hit's Platinum Hits or whatever to pick it up.


It's already 29 dollars new at most stores.

Ten more bucks and I'm there. Heh.

squidblatt
07-17-2005, 09:34 PM
Good review. I agree with everything. Bioware hit a highmark with Baldur's Gate 2 that I'm not sure they will ever achieve again.

digitalpress
07-30-2005, 10:55 AM
I was surprised to see very little discussion on this game that I FINALLY opened and started last night. Seems like an OK game though I'm not a fan of the "visit this guy, bring get this thing, so you can give it to me so I can give you the thing you really need" and the constant backtracking that I'm finding early on in the game.

I'm actually GLAD to hear it's short. I don't have time for full-blown RPG's anymore.

Can I get some more opinions of the game? If you played through it, was it worth your time? No spoilers, please!

Gamereviewgod
07-30-2005, 10:59 AM
It's definitely worth a play through. It's a lot easier than you would think a RPG would be. Combat is a bit of a mess, but it's enjoyable enough to wander through the world, being a saint or an ass.

There are a lot of side missions to be distracted by too. You can get through it even quicker if you ignore those.

PapaStu
07-30-2005, 01:51 PM
There is suppose to be a sequel/expansion out in the next 6 months or so. Maybe thats why the development team felt that it was ok to make a little short.

I'm searching for the LE version to get to 20 and then i'll jump on it.

Half Japanese
07-30-2005, 02:25 PM
I was surprised to see very little discussion on this game that I FINALLY opened and started last night. Seems like an OK game though I'm not a fan of the "visit this guy, bring get this thing, so you can give it to me so I can give you the thing you really need" and the constant backtracking that I'm finding early on in the game.

I'm actually GLAD to hear it's short. I don't have time for full-blown RPG's anymore.

Can I get some more opinions of the game? If you played through it, was it worth your time? No spoilers, please!

I've never been an RPG player. Ever. I generally can't stand them (mostly due to turn-based combat). Jade Empire, however, is a very rare exception. Not only did I enjoy it, but it's the first RPG I've ever beaten. The voicework is cheesy in places and the story's kind of 'straight-to-video' but overall it's a very enjoyable game. The real-time combat is a welcome change from KOTOR's nasty little setup (in my opinion, and that of several others I know), though it's a little overreaching. Like for instance, support styles, I never used them, ever. I'd whip out my best weapon and wail on whatever needed to be wailed on. The fact that you keep unlocking new ones to improve with stat points was nice if you're into exploring all of their functions, but it's far from necessary. Pick a few you like and work on them exclusively, ignoring the weaker styles.

While the story itself is linear, there are lots of side missions and decisions to stir things up. Early on, black and white, good and evil are pretty clear, but later on things don't get so easy to decide. Also, if you're very attentive and pick up lots of items (even though you won't know what they're for at first) you'll be able to pick up lots of bonus items and bonus stats from one side mission in particular. The minigames involving the flyer are passable at best. It's like they played a game or two of Galaga and said "hey, we can make a SHMUP!" One thing that I don't hear mentioned a lot, and perhaps because you have to be paying careful attention to catch it, is the humor. While it's not ever gut-busting or in your face, there were several times I chuckled. One time in particular, you pick up a note to be used on a side mission and if you read the note it says something to the effect of: "dolphins......no sharks!...laser beams."

jdc
07-30-2005, 09:27 PM
Well......let me sum it up this way. I thoroughly enjoyed wandering around in this beautiful Eastern world that Bioware had created. From marshes to thick forests to wind-whipped snowy mountain temples...it felt like I had travelled great distances during the course of the game. I loved the experience. The best way to approach this game is to receive it as you would a story in a book. Don't look for depth OR shallowness. Just enjoy the beauty of the ride.

I played it straight through without playing any other game in between.

Daria
07-31-2005, 12:32 AM
I don't know. I haven't tried it myself yet but I picked up the game for my dad as his father's day present. (He loved both KoTORs). And he hasn't been able to put it down since. He's already beaten it numerous times.

So at least somebody loves it. (:

squidblatt
07-31-2005, 12:04 PM
It's still one of the better games of the generation, but in comparison to past Bioware efforts, it's a bit stale. The atmosphere is great, and is the setting is a natural for an action rpg. The fighting is a bit clunky, but, with a little tweaking, it could become a great system.
Where the game fails is the dialog system. The conversation choices are the exact same thing we saw in KOTOR, which was pretty much the same as Baldur's Gate 2. In BG2 those conversation options were interesting to explore, but, in the linear console games, they just don't offer much. Plus, the choices are formulaic; you always know what to expect. They say the morality presents shades of grey rather than black and white extremes, but I didn't see much of that. "Open Palm" is obviously "Jedi," and "Closed Fist" is obviously "Sith," no matter how they attempt to dress it up. Also, many of the encounters are recycled from other games. For example, people thought that the woman who was in love with her robot was a funny sidequest in KOTOR, so they threw in a copy of it in Jade Empire.
Bioware still makes a great rpg, but I won't rush out to pay fifty bucks the week a new game is released anymore.

digitalpress
08-06-2005, 01:00 PM
You guys were right, it IS short. not FABLE short, but short. I kinda like it that way - my game was done at just over 20 hours.

A few notes about the game:
- interesting characters though I didn't really find any one character was a bigger help than others. It was pretty much all me slashing the bad guys to death and the follower presenting itself as a target that kept them all off of me.
- I would have liked to have more opportunities to play or even level up the followers. The game only had three such opportunities: the princess, the axeman, and Death Hand's spirit. All three VERY short opportunities.
- Speaking of which, Death's Hand was a chump. I expected a tough battle. But even he wasn't as much of a pussweed as the "grand strategist" turned out to be. Seemed like I hit him three times and down he went. I was really expecting a tough ending.
- The game was WAY too easy. If I had the time (and less other games to play) I'd do it again on the hardest setting because it felt like I walked through the game on its default setting.
- The graphics were good. Not GREAT, but good. Same for the music.
- The overhead shooting stages are LAME, and didn't seem to have any impact on the game's story or my character's status.
- The leveling up options were really weak and there wasn't nearly enough depth to make me want to go through it again and try different styles. I guess for the casual gamer it's enough but if you're going to have a leveling up system at ALL there ought to be more to it.
- I played as the hot chick. I always play at the hot chick. Why would I want to go through the game looking at the backside of some beefy barbarian?
- The game reminded me a lot of Knights of the Old Republic, it's clear that Bioware transplanted much of their engine into this one. If you haven't played KOTOR, think Fable (Xbox) meets Law of the West (C64) in that you have good and evil paths to choose, all decided by various dialogue responses you make.
- The dialogue choices were kinda fun. I played it totally RUDE throughout, but I can tell that it didn't really have much of an effect on how my followers dealt with me going forward. Until the end when I bound Death's Hand and later the entire group of followers to my will (enslaving them). Heh.
- I'd give the game a 7 out of 10.