MSNBC NEWS: Game's rating change a sign of things to come?

[The_4th_Survivor]

SAN FRANCISCO - The video game industry's decision to give an adults-only rating to the best-selling "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" because of explicit sexual content could signal the start of a crackdown on raunchy games.

The rating change followed intense pressure from politicians and media watch groups. Retailers reacted swiftly — Wal-Mart Stores Inc., Target Corp. and Best Buy Co. said Wednesday they would pull all copies from their store shelves nationwide. Circuit City Stores Inc., the nation’s No. 2 consumer electronics chain, joined the list Thursday.

Rockstar Games, the producer of "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas," said it has stopped making the current version of the game, which includes graphic sex scenes that can be unlocked with an Internet download. The game was released in October with an "M" rating, for players 17 and older.

Sen. Hilary Rodham Clinton, D-New York, applauded the change but said she was disturbed the sexual content appeared on store shelves in the first place. She asked the Federal Trade Commission to investigate and called on the Entertainment Software Rating Board to do more to police game content.

"Apparently the sexual material was embedded in the game. The company admitted that," Clinton said. "The fact remains that the company gamed the ratings system."

Rep. Joe Baca, D-Calif., said this week the video game industry needs a good dose of government oversight and renewed a call for a law requiring the FTC to determine if the video game industry's labeling practices are unfair or deceptive.

"Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" was last year's top console game, selling more than 5.1 million copies in the U.S., according to market analyst NPD Group. Xbox and PC versions were released last month.

Rockstar's parent company, New York-based Take Two Interactive Software Inc., acknowledged for the first time that the sex scenes were built into the retail version of the game. Company officials previously suggested that a modification created by outsiders added the scenes.

"The editing and finalization of any game is a complicated task and it's not uncommon for unused and unfinished content to remain on the disc," Take-Two spokesman Jim Ankner told The Associated Press.

In a statement, ESRB chief Patricia Vance said the sex scenes were programmed by Rockstar "to be inaccessible to the player." But she also acknowledged that the "credibility and utility" of the industry-run board's initial "M" rating had been "seriously undermined."

Rockstar said it would provide new labels to any retailer willing to keep selling the games and offer a downloadable patch to fix the sexual content in PC versions. The company also is working on a new, more secure version, to be rated "M," for mature.

A computer program known as Hot Coffee allows users to unlock the sex scenes. Such modifications — or "mods" — are wildly popular among the hardcore gaming community, and have been shown to extend the retail longevity of games.

Take-Two president Paul Eibeler said "the decision to re-rate a game based on an unauthorized third party modification presents a new challenge for parents, the interactive entertainment industry and anyone who distributes or consumes digital content."

The Parents Television Council, one of several media watchdogs that have criticized Rockstar and the ESRB, called on the game publisher to recall the game and offer refunds.

"I tip my cap to that first step of showing responsibility," said Tim Winter, the council's executive director. "Phase two needs to be absolutely getting to the bottom of this coding issue. How did it get into that game? How did it get past the ratings board?"

Take-Two said net sales could drop by more than $50 million this quarter, and lowered its financial expectations for the year to set aside funds for returns of the games.

[The_4th_Survivor]

If you ask me, that whole 'hot coffee' mod/hack is actually more of a 'viral marketing' gimmick to get more people to buy GTA:SA, for either the PS2, XBox and especially the PC.

After hearing that the 'hot coffee' section is also available to be 'hacked' in the PS2 version of GTA:SA, I'm pretty sure sales jumped not only for GTA:SA for PS2, but also for the Action Replay MAX, also for the PS2.

I'm probably one of the very few gamers out there who has played the more recent GTA games to feature the 3rd person perspective, and not enjoy any of the games.

To me, the games are definitely ugly in terms of graphics and the overall experience is just downright repetitive. I mean, how many times can you re-wrap the same exact game every year or two, tweak a couple of things in terms of gameplay or graphics and sell it to the public?

Many times of course. Why? Because the general populace (in terms of 'casual' gamers) wants the latest and (supposedly) 'best' technology and games out there.

What they fail to realize is that these are primarily the same games from the previous years, just with updated graphics and other small, minute things.

Like the whole "Madden" series. Great games, but damn.... it's the same exact thing every year, but with the later versions having 'better' graphics, 'updated' player statistics, a 'new' soundtrack (probably to conform to the current year's 'MTV friendly' playlist) and slightly 'tweaked' gameplay.

*sighs*

I guess you can only do so much in terms of gaming nowadays, since a good percentage of the titles available are either sequels of previous games, First Person Shooters or rip-offs of previous hit game franchises.

Now we have to deal with this new ratings system as well.

I'm starting to miss the days of 8 and 16 Bit gaming. Those were the days where only the gameplay mattered and not how flashy the graphics look.

*mumbles to self* Geez.... I'm getting old.

[pixelsnpolygons]

The Parents Television Council, one of several media watchdogs that have criticized Rockstar and the ESRB, called on the game publisher to recall the game and offer refunds.

OMFG I'm so tired of this shit. If it was in Mario, I'd completely agree... but refunds for an M rated game? Anyone offended by sexual content and not offended by blowing masses of people away is sick in the head. Making the changes - that's fine, but if you're buying GTA you should expect that the limits of decency are going to be pushed. What is the difference between M and AO, really? What makes one OK and the other a sin to these people? I agree with it being removed from the game, but people are acting like some little kid found a snippet of porno in her Disney movie. This is the exact kind of thing GTA is known for.


What they fail to realize is that these are primarily the same games from the previous years, just with updated graphics and other small, minute things.

To each their own I guess, but I don't agree at all and I'm hardly a casual gamer.

[dieourumov]

It doesn't matter that the games are being recalled, the game has already been out for nearly a year and rockstar has reaped all the profits and benefits.

[slip81]

[quote]What they fail to realize is that these are primarily the same games from the previous years, just with updated graphics and other small, minute things.

To each their own I guess, but I don't agree at all and I'm hardly a casual gamer.

Yeah I agree. Weather you like the games or not is one thing, but to say that they are all basically the same thing is just poor observation. Sure all three PS2 GTA games revolve around the same premise, but the changes from one to another, especially VC to SA are hardly minute.

The jump from VC to SA is quite large. A whole new set of game play features were added with things like a customizeable appearance, schools, girlfriends and gang warfare. the world is comepletely different and much bigger. there is more of everything, cars, weapons, locations, side quests/missions. And the whole character customization elements has an almost RPG feel to it.

It seems under your logic, games like the first 4 Super Mario titles (or any early platforming series), would be a waste of time because they're mainly just the same game with "updated graphics and other small, minute things."

EDIT: I also highly doubt this is some planned elaborate marketing scheme to boost sales on a year old game. I doubt any company, even the rebellous R* would appove of a marketing plan that would cost them to loose an estimated $50 million, and completely turn the ratings systems, and the way video games will be sold in the future, on it's head.

It seems like only bad can come from this, cause now R* is gonna have an even harder time releasing any future titles. Don't anyone be suprised if killer apps like the Warriors and GTA: LCS are now put into developmental limbo untill this whole thing is straightend out.

Which will make other companies like Sony pissed, because if GTA: LCS gets delayed, they loose thier killer app, for a system that already has no real killer apps, at the most crucial of sales periods, Christmas.

The decision to leave the code in was probably made to save time and get the game out on release date.

[The_4th_Survivor]

Yeah I agree. Weather you like the games or not is one thing, but to say that they are all basically the same thing is just poor observation. Sure all three PS2 GTA games revolve around the same premise, but the changes from one to another, especially VC to SA are hardly minute.

It seems under your logic, games like the first 4 Super Mario titles (or any early platforming series), would be a waste of time because they're mainly just the same game with "updated graphics and other small, minute things."



You forgot to read my entire post. Since you conveniently didn't read my 2nd post, you would have noticed that I stated the following:

"I'm starting to miss the days of 8 and 16 Bit gaming. Those were the days where only the gameplay mattered and not how flashy the graphics look."

The original Super Mario Bros. games released on the 8-bit NES, SNES and spin off games like Super Mario Land on the Game Boy were all highly enjoyable games. IMHO, they had way more substance and gameplay to offer than a repetitive GTA (or GTA-like) title could muster.

Even after twenty years, I can still sit down and play the original Super Mario Bros. on my original NES and not get bored of it. The most recent GTA games (III, Vice City and San Andreas) only seem to offer more violence and realism than it's previous titles.

The SMB series has always advanced and evolved in some way or another, especially in terms of gameplay, but the GTA games (and all of the other clones that seem follow) really only re-hash what the previous titles offered.

So you can customize what your character looks like? Big woop. I don't play games to look at the character, I play games to have fun, and to me, the GTA series is no longer fun.

But saving the Mushroom Kingdom.... that's still fun to do.

I believe that the GTA series needs more substance and overall gameplay. Hence, I don't like any of them.

Yes, to each their own. I have my opinion and you have yours.

Please do not attempt to insult me because I'm not typing what you want to read.

[Push Upstairs]

The only thing that disturbs me, is that Hillary is thankful the "sexual" content is being taken care of but she could care less about the violence in the game.

Thanks for looking out for the youth of America Hillary!.

[Sothy]

Sen. Hilary Rodham Clinton, D-New York, applauded the change but said she was disturbed the sexual content appeared on store shelves in the first place. She asked the Federal Trade Commission to investigate and called on the Entertainment Software Rating Board to do more to police game content


I bet you her husband loves those mini games.

[pragmatic insanester]

hillary just lost my vote for her in any future election. first lieberfuck and now her... do the democrats want the youth and like minded to keep apes like bush in office?

just a one time post. don't flame about politics...unless it is amusing enough to warrant a threadlock.

[goatdan]

hillary just lost my vote for her in any future election. first lieberfuck and now her... do the democrats want the youth and like minded to keep apes like bush in office?

No. They're trying to appear overly conservative now because a lot of the world thought that Howard Dean looked like a complete freak show in the last election, and don't want to be caught voting for him, but more like someone "in the middle."

Personally? I hate them all.

[Lady Jaye]

Frankly, I think the ESRB oughta revise the definition of M and AO... currently, the differences between them is so subtle, that it's really, really a subjective call, and it's just to make sure the stores don't pull the games off the shelves.

The only positive outlook I see out of this is a reminder to everyone that the GTA series is supposed to be a series of games for adults, not children, and that there are adults who play videogames.

But it is headed to be uglier than the senate's outcry against Mortal Kombat and Night Trap combined.

[slip81]

Yeah I agree. Weather you like the games or not is one thing, but to say that they are all basically the same thing is just poor observation. Sure all three PS2 GTA games revolve around the same premise, but the changes from one to another, especially VC to SA are hardly minute.

It seems under your logic, games like the first 4 Super Mario titles (or any early platforming series), would be a waste of time because they're mainly just the same game with "updated graphics and other small, minute things."



You forgot to read my entire post. Since you conveniently didn't read my 2nd post, you would have noticed that I stated the following:

"I'm starting to miss the days of 8 and 16 Bit gaming. Those were the days where only the gameplay mattered and not how flashy the graphics look."

The original Super Mario Bros. games released on the 8-bit NES, SNES and spin off games like Super Mario Land on the Game Boy were all highly enjoyable games. IMHO, they had way more substance and gameplay to offer than a repetitive GTA (or GTA-like) title could muster.

Even after twenty years, I can still sit down and play the original Super Mario Bros. on my original NES and not get bored of it. The most recent GTA games (III, Vice City and San Andreas) only seem to offer more violence and realism than it's previous titles.

The SMB series has always advanced and evolved in some way or another, especially in terms of gameplay, but the GTA games (and all of the other clones that seem follow) really only re-hash what the previous titles offered.

So you can customize what your character looks like? Big woop. I don't play games to look at the character, I play games to have fun, and to me, the GTA series is no longer fun.

But saving the Mushroom Kingdom.... that's still fun to do.

I believe that the GTA series needs more substance and overall gameplay. Hence, I don't like any of them.

Yes, to each their own. I have my opinion and you have yours.

Please do not attempt to insult me because I'm not typing what you want to read.

I'm not insulting you, I'm just trying to illustrate that GTA: SA offers just as many improvements over the last installment as SMB3 offered over SMB2.

Yes at the end of the day GTA is still just about violence, but Mario is just about saving the Princess. The main difference seems to be the type of improvement. While a game like SMB offers enhancement on level design and strategy, a game like GTA offers it in immersement, meaning the sheer number of different things you can do and explore, and it goes way beyond just changing the appearance of your character.

Both games offer, I think, the same amount of improvemnt, just in different ways.

I'm not asking you to change your opinion, or like the game, I'm just asking you to realize the merits it has and not to just dismiss it as another vapid clone. Because there is a lot more to it than you seem to think.

A person can not like something, but still acknowlage it's good points, just like I don't care for Charolette Church's music, but I will admit that she has a good voice and can sing extremely well.

[ddockery]

The only thing that disturbs me, is that Hillary is thankful the "sexual" content is being taken care of but she could care less about the violence in the game.

Thanks for looking out for the youth of America Hillary!.

But sex is naughty. Killing people is just fine.

[squidblatt]

hillary just lost my vote for her in any future election. first lieberfuck and now her... do the democrats want the youth and like minded to keep apes like bush in office?

The problem is that both Republicans and Democrats are united against gaming. Games have an image problem that politicians on both sides can use to their advantage. Remember, it was Lieberman AND McCain working together to get federal oversight. For some reason, the McCain half of that effort tends to be forgotten. Not only that, those two really just wanted the industry to self-regulate itself. They threatened to push their bill for federal regulation, but they cooperated with the industry to give time for the ESRB to form and backed off when it did. I think most of us believe that the rating system is helpful, and, as much as we might hate to admit it, we have Lieberman and McCain to thank for it.

What's happening now is different. Politicians and moralists are being alarmists, making unfounded accusations, and exploiting the public's ignorant mistrust of a new medium. Much like what happened to comic books in the fifties, video games are being accused of subverting the moral fabric of children and leading them to outrageous acts. Comics were said to encourage homosexuality, pedophilia, and delinquency while video games are being accused of instigating crime and sex in general.

By changing GTA's rating, the ESRB may have averted having the government initiate something like the Comics Code Authority, which put many of the best publishers out of business. Comics have become socially acceptable, and games will too eventually. But you can be sure that something else will take their place as society's new media whipping boy.

[TeddyRuxpin]

OMFG I'm so tired of this shit. If it was in Mario, I'd completely agree... but refunds for an M rated game? Anyone offended by sexual content and not offended by blowing masses of people away is sick in the head.

I completely agree with that.

However, just because something is recalled and people are offered a refund doesn't mean they're going to jump up and return it.

Typically recalls only happen effectively if the item is actually dangerous (ie: it could cause physical damage to the user or other objects) or flat out doesn't work.

I don't see how a recall would be very effective except to offer a full refund to people who are sick of playng the game. LOL

And maybe to a few Christian paraents who bought it knowing it was horribley violant with course lnguage (from the rating on the front AND back) but got their undies in a twist when they heard it had unlockable sexual content. :roll:

[SoulBlazer]

That's the main thing I want to know -- DID changing GTA's rating by the ESRB stave off the worse from the government? I don't agree with changing the rating, but if it works, I'll count my blessings that it did.

[The_4th_Survivor]

I'm not insulting you, I'm just trying to illustrate that GTA: SA offers just as many improvements over the last installment as SMB3 offered over SMB2.

Yes at the end of the day GTA is still just about violence, but Mario is just about saving the Princess. The main difference seems to be the type of improvement. While a game like SMB offers enhancement on level design and strategy, a game like GTA offers it in immersement, meaning the sheer number of different things you can do and explore, and it goes way beyond just changing the appearance of your character.

Both games offer, I think, the same amount of improvemnt, just in different ways.

I'm not asking you to change your opinion, or like the game, I'm just asking you to realize the merits it has and not to just dismiss it as another vapid clone. Because there is a lot more to it than you seem to think.

A person can not like something, but still acknowlage it's good points, just like I don't care for Charolette Church's music, but I will admit that she has a good voice and can sing extremely well.

Sorry about that.

I just thought that you were trying to insult me in some way.

You're right though and I agree with you. Although a person can't seem to be fond of a particular thing, that doesn't mean that the thing they dislike is not stellar in terms of talent or creativity.

Good point about Charlotte Church. That young lady can really sing and has a beautiful voice, even though you and I don't like the overall music that she sings on, just like Christina Aguilera. (Really nice singing voice, but I can't stand her songs)

I do recognize the GTA series (past titles as well as most recent) as being unique and creative, especially since the more recent titles gave players the ability to 'commit any crime' they wanted, without having to deal with the 'real world' repercussions.

I guess I was just tired of seeing so many GTA games (as well as the clones) out on the market.

What really irks me about the whole GTA 'stigma' is the message and closeness to actual reality these titles can come to.

Remember when those bonehead kids decided to re-enact one of their favorite GTA based situations? It was from a part of the game where Tommy Vercetti could equip a sniper rifle and shoot at the drivers of passing vehicles.

I couldn't believe how stupid it was of those kids to actually go out and commit such a crime.

I know it's not really the kids' fault, but more of the parents' fault for not keeping enough control over their kids.

I feel that it's bad enough that most youngsters today (between the ages of 8-14, regardless of gender) take for granted the things that are given to them by such hard working parents and guardians.

These same people who watch over their kids feel that it's okay for their children to play violent video games but they won't allow them to watch R-rated movies. Strange, isn't it?

Then, when they think that they're in control of these kids, it turns out that they never really had control in the first place, then the kids go off and turn into a new generation of disrespectful brats who always want to defy authority.

*sigh*

Anyway, sorry if I took it the wrong way. I've just been having a long week, which, for some strange reason, was filled with a little bit of drama. :embarrassed:

I think I'll go work off the stress by playing a couple of games of Tetris. :D