Here's the Video. Now What Rating would You Give GTA SA

[Griking]

There's a lot of opinions being thrown around about this issue yet many of them are being cast by people who've never even seen the material in question that's causing all of the contraversy. Well here it is in all it's glory. Now everyone has the ability to make an educated decision.

First of all, Here's a Link to the Video (http://www.games.net/article_frame/article_frame.cfm?global_id=110261&id=6810&src=gametrailers).

and Here's (http://www.esrb.com/esrbratings_guide.asp) a link to the ESRB website where you can get clear definitions of what constitutes what as far as ratings go.

Edit: I'm also interested in hearing if your opinion has changed now that you've seen some of the content.

[jwl]

I don't think Rockstar went too far, but I still think that it should have just got an Ao rating from the start. That way kids wouldn't be able to get their hands on it as easily, and would need an adult to buy it.

[Jasoco]

If there's one thing I like about that site is that they have high resolution downloads of both formats instead of just a single craptacular WMP video.

Anyways, wow.. I was not expecting that. I think the game should have been AO from the start too. Now I don't think I want my brother buying that. I mean, the shooting and cursing was okay, but the sex. No way. He's only 15. Am I being sarcastic? I don't know, but I don't think he'll be getting it soon if I can stop him. (He's caught in WoW right now. Maybe he'll forget about the game.)

[Dr. Morbis]

That looked about as real as Custers Revenge (pardon the hyperbole). If that's what graphics look like in modern "realistic" games, man I'm not missing much.

As for the topic, I think a scene like that should be AO. However I do find it extremely funny that the guy never took off his pants. It's like some nudie cutie from the 60's.

[Jibbajaba]

Thats the first time I had seen what the big deal was about. That's pretty damned graphic. I voted AO.

Chris

[TheRedEye]

The AO content is only accessible by using outside software unauthorized by either the developer or the publisher to run the game in ways not covered by the invisible contract you "signed" when purchasing the game. I can make a Game Genie code to give you "beer" jellybeans in A Boy and his Blob, should we hide that game from children too?

[Half Japanese]

Thats the first time I had seen what the big deal was about. That's pretty damned graphic. I voted AO.

Chris

Graphic? Titties and a little motion? It's essentially the same thing you'd see on Cinemax, except impossible to masturbate to (though I'm sure someone has). To me it reeks of socially undeveloped programmers throwing in a stupid looking minigame.

The game is already rated the ESRB equivelant of the MPAA's R rating. R-rated movies already show that much without much trouble, so why talk down to the game-buying crowd? Another thing to keep in mind is that, straight-from-retail, without any downloads or cracked save files, this stuff is inaccessible, and 99% of the people who play these games will never see these awkwardly choreographed and poorly-designed sex scenes. Now if the girl's spreading eagle and you see penetration, fine, give it the AO rating, until then, it doesn't make sense to do so.

Disclaimer: I've never played GTA:SA nor does the GTA series appeal to me in particular, I'm just calling a spade a spade.

[Lothars]

Thats the first time I had seen what the big deal was about. That's pretty damned graphic. I voted AO.

Chris

Graphic? Titties and a little motion? It's essentially the same thing you'd see on Cinemax, except impossible to masturbate to (though I'm sure someone has). To me it reeks of socially undeveloped programmers throwing in a stupid looking minigame.

The game is already rated the ESRB equivelant of the MPAA's R rating. R-rated movies already show that much without much trouble, so why talk down to the game-buying crowd? Another thing to keep in mind is that, straight-from-retail, without any downloads or cracked save files, this stuff is inaccessible, and 99% of the people who play these games will never see these awkwardly choreographed and poorly-designed sex scenes. Now if the girl's spreading eagle and you see penetration, fine, give it the AO rating, until then, it doesn't make sense to do so.

Disclaimer: I've never played GTA:SA nor does the GTA series appeal to me in particular, I'm just calling a spade a spade.


I agree, I don't think it's that graphic or deserves the AO rating I played and beat all 3 gta's but i fully agree with exactly what you said.

[Qixmaster]

that's freakin' awesome. Aside from it just being two people having sex it is a black guy having sex with a white chick... (which i am sure will spark even more debate).

If it was a white dude screwing the girl, i'm sure it wouldn't be much of a problem.

Naw just kidding :P

It's rockstar! what do you expect? I voted M, cuz in my mind a little sex is MUCH better then a lot of violence, anyway you look at it.

Let's take in our two most recent presidents for example... Clinton gets blasted and almost thrown from the white house for getting a BJ? Bush murders millions and gets praised by the media. WTF?!?

Let me think... i'd much rather want my teenager having sex then murdering someone... but that is of course if you believe that video games "make" you do things, just like the movies do.

also another point. Is the rating change really going to stop kids from getting this? BS. They better rate the internet AO and get Net Nanny's ass to work. Also, what teenage boy hasn't had a glimpse at hustler, penthouse or playboy. I know I did :D

I think the game should maintain an M rating because that's what the censors initially gave it and I don't really give a shit what they think (the censors).

I'm a strong advocate against censorship in all forms (media, film, literature and especially video games). Lets put our time and money to use and EDUCATE our society and kids so we don't have these types of problems. Better yet, lets put our money into education and not other things deemed acceptible by our media (money, greed, violence and yes... even sex)

In the end we only spark heated debates about violence (and heaven forbid sex) rubbing off on our children (ha, i said rubbing off). We can sit here and say fuck or praise the government and censors but what it really boils down to is to educate. If the censors feel that the rating change is going to help then they better take a step back and look at the larger picture.

-Josh

[Griking]

The AO content is only accessible by using outside software unauthorized by either the developer or the publisher to run the game in ways not covered by the invisible contract you "signed" when purchasing the game. I can make a Game Genie code to give you "beer" jellybeans in A Boy and his Blob, should we hide that game from children too?

That really wasn't the question for this post. Jellybeans aren't something that will get your game an AO rating. Sex on the other hand is. If Rockstar hid Jellybeans in GTA instead of porn they wouldn't be in this mess. And regardless of whether they were hidden or not, the last time I checked the ESRB ratings there was no provision about how difficult it had to be to find and access AO material. The only thing that really matters is that there IS AO material and it was put there by Rockstar programmers, not a 3rd party hacker.

[shvnsth]

i like it how julie roberts was in that video. but this is some weird shit

[kainemaxwell]

That really wasn't the question for this post. Jellybeans aren't something that will get your game an AO rating. Sex on the other hand is. If Rockstar hid Jellybeans in GTA instead of porn they wouldn't be in this mess. And regardless of whether they were hidden or not, the last time I checked the ESRB ratings there was no provision about how difficult it had to be to find and access AO material. The only thing that really matters is that there IS AO material and it was put there by Rockstar programmers, not a 3rd party hacker.
Be funny if jellybeans was a new filter for sex around here.

Anhow, AO seems approipate after seeing the vid. Loved the Vice City poster on the wall.

[Gamemaster_ca_2003]

After seeing the footage and thinking on it for a few minutes I feel that rockstar did push the enivlope a little bit too far this time so I thing this should have been Rated AO,

But that does not mean I will not buy rockstar games titles again.

[Qixmaster]

The AO content is only accessible by using outside software unauthorized by either the developer or the publisher to run the game in ways not covered by the invisible contract you "signed" when purchasing the game. I can make a Game Genie code to give you "beer" jellybeans in A Boy and his Blob, should we hide that game from children too?

That really wasn't the question for this post. Jellybeans aren't something that will get your game an AO rating. Sex on the other hand is. If Rockstar hid Jellybeans in GTA instead of porn they wouldn't be in this mess. And regardless of whether they were hidden or not, the last time I checked the ESRB ratings there was no provision about how difficult it had to be to find and access AO material. The only thing that really matters is that there IS AO material and it was put there by Rockstar programmers, not a 3rd party hacker.

his point isn't jellybeans, it is the point that you have to use "outside software" to get to it.

[Push Upstairs]

What exactly is the difference between an "M" and an "AO" game? (besides "nudity" and the use of the word "prolonged").

It looks like the difference between these two ratings is minimal at best.

[OdSquad64]

well, thats the first time i've seen the Hot Coffee stuff where the girls were actually naked. Every other time i've seen it both participants in the "sex" were fully clothed. But, really, the Ao rating is unfair to rockstar. The sexual content isn't actually in the game, I watched my cousin complete the entire game and never once was there sex. Perhaps the ESRB sould chang the rating to "AO, if you have an Action Replay, otherwise M" I guess any parent who didn't mind their kid playing the game when it was M, but now has a problem because the same exact game has an AO should take it back and get them the updated game with the sex minigames (which wern't in the game in the first place) removed. The rating change hasn't changed ANYTHING. The game is still exactly the same with all the same content. The sex has to be put there WILLINGLY by a third party who obviously wanted to and intended to see it. Rockstar didn't intend for anyone to see this content, and even if they did put it in there in hopes someone would find it and cause a rucus, they didn't include it as part of the playable game, and thats what content should be rated.
Sure, if it was actually there and was just normally part of the game it may deserve an AO rating, heck, even if it was something put in there to be unlocked after you beat the game 342 times it may deserve an AO rating, but it shouldn't be an AO rating based on content not part of the official game.

[robotriot]

Come on, why are Rockstar suddenly "pushing" it with these ridiculous scenes when they had you playing a mass murder since GTA1 killing innocent people with flame-throwers or driving over them with a combine harvester?

[Sylentwulf]

Based on the sex, I'd give it a T+ rating.
Based on the violence and actual gameplay? AO no problem.

Type any word into an unfiltered google searchand you can find more hardcore porn than that. You'd have a hard time finding real snuff films in google images regardless of your age.

[Jasoco]

http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/gaming/7925/?cpg=wnrss
They're fast.

[Super Mario Fan]

I don't think Rockstar went too far, but I still think that it should have just got an Ao rating from the start. That way kids wouldn't be able to get their hands on it as easily, and would need an adult to buy it.


Hit the nail on the head right there.

I voted AO.

[googlefest1]

AO all the way - even with out the rediculus minigame

i read what others had to say

yea you can see stuff like this on cable but able also has the feature now where you can block all that stuff - so if parents dont want their kids to see it then they would use the feature -

i think many parents arent as tech savy as thier kids and dont care to keep tabs on the game industry - so a kid can learn of this mod get the game and mess around with it -- with the AO rateing the parent would have to get it for the kid and if the kid actualy asked the parent to buy it - the parent would be alerted to the content. - so even a crapy parent would have to make the decision.

im not a fan of these games but that is not influenceing my opinion. there are other violent games that i like and also think they need more strickter ratings too.

after veiweing the video i dont think it was made to apeal to the adult - its just too dumb i cant see an adult being excited about it - i think it was made to apeal kids

yes you can see this on a unmonitored cable tv but in most cases its the adult buying and paying for it
many kids buy games themselves and therfore deserve strickter ratings and have statues in place were parents are forced to make the descision - should my child be playing this

[Melf]

The only thing that video convinced me of is that the GTA 3 engine has run its course.

Blech. :puke:

[Slimedog]

Could somebody clear up the clothed/unclothed thing in Hot Coffee for me? This video had the woman naked where most of the other screens I've seen had her clothed. How is she in the original code? It does make a difference to the argument because if she is clothed, it would indicate that this is just another half finished bit of code where if they took the time to give her nipple and butt textures, they were probably expecting somebody to see it. I suspect the naked part is due to some aftermarket texture swapping to make Hot Coffee more racey.

[Darth Sensei]

I wish I could find a girl who could switch sexual positions that fast.

[squidblatt]

I'd say M. It's hard to believe that this content could make anyone change their opinion given the content that that the original rating was already based on.

After watching this video, I'm more convinced than ever that R* didn't try to sneak this through. The whole sequence looks like it was ditched before it was finished, and reflects poorly on the quality of the product as a whole.

[stuffedmonkey]

I really don't understand what is so wierd about this country....

The game dosen't get the AO rating for hundreds of murders, car bombings, baseball bat beatings. You can steal a car, use it to run over a cop, then shoot the other cops that respond. But if you have *sex* with a woman that gets the AO rating? That's total 100% complete bulshit.

[Lady Jaye]

Let's not forget too: while a game like Diablo can get pretty gory and does deserve its M rating, it's still set in a fantasy world.

On the other hand, the GTA series is set in a depiction of the "real" world. Sure, it's not that realistic, but it sure hits closer to home than hacking and slashing monsters in a dungeon. IMO, the setting of the games (fictional cities based on real cities) is another element why the GTA series should have been rated AO, not M, regardless of the existence of the hot coffee mini-games.

[digitalpress]

I don't see the game any differently now than I did before. It's not a game I'd want my kids playing, but I love it to death.

[Push Upstairs]

I'm still trying to figure out why DOAXVB got an "M" rating.

If Diablo and GTA can get this rating because of tons of violence, why does a game with women playing volleyball in bikini's get the same rating? :roll:

[Muscelli]

mature is 17 and up, and I think it isnt too sexually explict for 17 year olds...

[Qixmaster]

I really don't understand what is so wierd about this country....

The game dosen't get the AO rating for hundreds of murders, car bombings, baseball bat beatings. You can steal a car, use it to run over a cop, then shoot the other cops that respond. But if you have *sex* with a woman that gets the AO rating? That's total 100% complete bulshit.

exactly!

[buttasuperb]

I'm still trying to figure out why DOAXVB got an "M" rating.

The nude hack. ahahahahaha

[Alucard]

I voted m. The game had it so it was hidden away, and someone went and found it and made it so you could do it. Most people won't see it and the game is as it is, which hasn't changed much over the years of the series. It's pretty much the same stuff.

[davepesc]

I voted AO, but the M label did say, "Strong Sexual Content."

To me, it was covered either way.

[Garry Silljo]

I dont think M and AO need to be seperate ratings. It's too much splitting hairs. What games should do is just ditch their rating system and copy the movie rating system. That way parents shouldn't act like they can't understand it, and if people think GTA deserves worse than an NC-17, games don't have to suffer the scrutiny alone, movies will have to defend the rating as well, ...., afterall it's their system too.

[zmweasel]

Anyways, wow.. I was not expecting that. I think the game should have been AO from the start too. Now I don't think I want my brother buying that. I mean, the shooting and cursing was okay, but the sex. No way.

Your brother can't see this sequence unless he's playing the PC version and downloads a mod, or owns a PS2 or Xbox Action Replay and enters a lengthy code. It can't be accessed via normal gameplay.

But your 15-year-old brother shouldn't be buying an M-rated (17+) game anyway, and no responsible retailer will sell it to him.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

I dont think M and AO need to be seperate ratings. It's too much splitting hairs. What games should do is just ditch their rating system and copy the movie rating system. That way parents shouldn't act like they can't understand it, and if people think GTA deserves worse than an NC-17, games don't have to suffer the scrutiny alone, movies will have to defend the rating as well, ...., afterall it's their system too.

The ESRB system already mirrors the MPAA system.

EC = no equivalent (edutainment)
E = G
E10+ = PG
T = PG-13
M = R
AO = NC-17 (retailers won't carry AO games, and theaters won't show NC-17 movies)

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

I'm still trying to figure out why DOAXVB got an "M" rating.

If Diablo and GTA can get this rating because of tons of violence, why does a game with women playing volleyball in bikini's get the same rating? :roll:

I asked Tecmo about this, and found out that the M was given for all the thong-flossing ass on display (and the half-second flash of moonlit ass in the intro CG sequence).

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

The only thing that really matters is that there IS AO material and it was put there by Rockstar programmers, not a 3rd party hacker.

I'm going to take this as your answer to the question I asked you in another thread. So, in your opinion, Rockstar should be held legally accountable for all content on the game disc, even if portions of that content are inaccessible via normal gameplay, and can only be accessed by the (illegal) use of third-party mods or utilities.

And I could not disagree any more with you.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

The game is already rated the ESRB equivelant of the MPAA's R rating. R-rated movies already show that much without much trouble, so why talk down to the game-buying crowd?

Because, more than 30 years after their debut, video games are still perceived as childrens' entertainment.

Maybe Joe should extend a tongue-in-cheek offer to fly Lieberman and Hillary to CGE and introduce them to a few thousand adults who play and enjoy video games.

-- Z.

[hezeuschrist]

First of all, I voted M. Thats some of the cheesiest sex scene crap I've ever seen. If the Angelina Jolie sex scene in Taking Lives doesn't catch an NC-17 rating, then there's nothing about a dude with clothes on grabbing a boob and dry humping a girl that deserves any worse.



The only thing that really matters is that there IS AO material and it was put there by Rockstar programmers, not a 3rd party hacker.

I'm going to take this as your answer to the question I asked you in another thread. So, in your opinion, Rockstar should be held legally accountable for all content on the game disc, even if portions of that content are inaccessible via normal gameplay, and can only be accessed by the (illegal) use of third-party mods or utilities.

And I could not disagree any more with you.

-- Z.

So whats' the solution? I can see the comparison to the Tomb Raider games that had the Nude Raider hacks, but that content was never put there by Eidos (or Core, whoever the developer was).

Granted that no matter how you access this code it's illegal, but it was still put there by Rockstar. I certainly don't feel it's AO material, but they left it on the disc. So who would you hold accountable? I'm really not up for a fight this time around, I'm genuinely interested.

[Garry Silljo]

I wasn't impying that the video game system should MIRROR the movies. I said it should be the same. Parent's are often claiming, at least around this area, that the system is confusing and they don't understand what it means. Everybody knows what the movie raitings mean though so just go with those because that would elimante parents "I don't get it" cop out when they are buying these games for children. It would also make an easier arguement between M and AO. If they can prove movies are getting away with more than they are, then some blame or heat can be shifted to THAT media instead.

[zmweasel]

So who would you hold accountable?

The third parties, of course.

During my Working Designs stint, the company got phone calls all the time--ALL THE TIME--from people who had screwed up their Memory Cards with a Game Shark, and who were pissed at WD about it.

It would be patiently explained to them that WD couldn't be held responsible for what they had done to their saves with a third-party device, but they didn't care. They wanted WD to fix it.

My friends in retail get these same calls all the time, from people who've screwed up saves or simply don't "get" the Game Shark/Action Replay.

Even before the San Andreas fiasco, these devices cost game publishers time and money. Now it's a whole new level.

The Action Replay doesn't create that dormant content, but it alters the program code to allow that content to be seen. And that's the mind-blowing part, that R* is being punished for illegal third-party modification of its code.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

I wasn't impying that the video game system should MIRROR the movies. I said it should be the same. Parent's are often claiming, at least around this area, that the system is confusing and they don't understand what it means. Everybody knows what the movie raitings mean though so just go with those because that would elimante parents "I don't get it" cop out when they are buying these games for children. It would also make an easier arguement between M and AO. If they can prove movies are getting away with more than they are, then some blame or heat can be shifted to THAT media instead.

I fear for the children of parents so rock-stupid that they can't fathom the ESRB system. The rating and its related age range are listed on the front and back of the box, and content descriptors are listed in plain English on the back.

As for movies, studios are happy to work within the boundaries of the MPAA, and more than willing to cut content in order to obtain certain ratings. Especially now that they can later release an unrated DVD, put all the content back, and make another boatload of cash.

Movies also have the defense of using violent and sexual imagery in the name of "art," while video games are strictly for children (or didn't you know?).

-- Z.

[Mr.FoodMonster]

Just so everyone knows, the REAL code of whats in the game didn't have any nudity, the girl is wearing a R* shirt, and a thong. There is 2 versions of the mod, one that lets you access that, and then this one, that makes the girls naked. If you put in the code on the PS2 (dont know if anyone has the XBox one figured out yet?) there isnt any nudity, so this whole topic is misleading. There is such a large amount of confusion behind this whole damn thing its insane.


That being said, I think the game should have been rated AO in the first place, because I know for a fact that just about everyone who was intrested in it still would have bought it, and it would have been easier to keep out of the hands of children.

[pragmatic insanester]

people in here seriously consider the violence in GTA (all three modern ones) to be realistically hardcore, and graphic enough for all of these pseudo-shocked faces i'm imagining you with?

the people (aside from some scripted storyline characters like jizzy) don't beg for their lives. none of them respond to attacks like a real person would - its all "ow. asshole! bleeegh!".

manhunt came close to the real deal in the emotional and kill aspect, but the majority of your victims were jaded killers.

rockstar has yet to produce a game where anyone, even a person completely detatched sociopath, could confuse real life murder and the video games.

[Garry Silljo]

Is it just me or is ZMweasel just arguing to argue?

Video games are no longer just for kids and haven't been for a long time. Yes, some people see them this way, but your sarcastic generalization does not make it fact, and your condescending tone is the least called for.

Also just because you fear for the children of stupid parents doesnt make any less stupid parents out there. There are thousands and the number swells by the day.

Now pick that and anything anyone wlse says apart, ...., because you're infallable right?

[Bluteg]

I agree with zmweasel, how can you not understand the ESRB ratings? An ESRB Mature rating states "17+", an R movie rating states "Under 17 must be accompanied by an parent or adult guardian" How is that any different? The ESRB basically just sums it up. Considering that this is no where near as bad as some of the content in R rated movies, I DO NOT see what the problem is. The PS2 version has NO nudity... especially "Prolonged nudity" which is how ESRB defines an AO rating. Basically R* and ESRB should suck it up and not back down, but I guess its allready too late for that. :/

[PDorr3]

I think anyone 17+ should be able to play this game, hence am M rating. I mean by 17 years old, who the hell hasnt seen some breasts. I dont think digital breasts should change the rating.

[Garry Silljo]

Maybe I just live in a stupid neighborhood. I don't know how people get confused. You ask me like I'M the one who doesn't get it. stand in any video game store for long enough here in Washington Pa (not long) and you'll hear a dumb mom or dad asking "M? what the hell is that supposed to mean?" and putting it down and walking off before a clerk can even walk over to explain it. It happens, belive it or not. It's a real problem. Just because you are smart and I have seen people who aren't, you blast me like I'm some kind of liar. By refusing to believe stupidity exists you are the most unrealistic of all in this debate.

[Lady Jaye]

And there are MSRB rating grid stickers that were published, indicating clearly what each rating mean. I've seen those stickers in stores not specialized in gaming, like Zellers and Radio Shack. How much easier could it be than:

EC = 3 years and over
E = 6 years and over
E10+ = 10 years and over
T = 13 years and over
M = 17 years and over
AO = 18 years and over

Not complicated, isn't it? But I know: most parents don't read the MSRB ratings and don't even bother asking a clerk for details if they still aren't too sure of the appropriateness of a given game.

[zmweasel]

Is it just me or is ZMweasel just arguing to argue?

Video games are no longer just for kids and haven't been for a long time. Yes, some people see them this way, but your sarcastic generalization does not make it fact, and your condescending tone is the least called for.

Also just because you fear for the children of stupid parents doesnt make any less stupid parents out there. There are thousands and the number swells by the day.

Now pick that and anything anyone wlse says apart, ...., because you're infallable right?

You have quite seriously misunderstood my post.

RE the ESRB system: I'm not criticizing you. I'm simply stunned that you've interacted with parents who don't understand it.

RE games for kids: indeed, it was a sarcastic comment, intended for both you and I to chuckle at (and to shake our heads at). You and I know that millions of adults play video games, but the members of the U.S. Senate don't.

-- Z.

[OdSquad64]

What's really great is that the AO rating doesn't even matter. In America any 10 year old kid with $50 can go in a store and legally buy this AO rated game, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Personally i think Rockstar should re-release the game so that it deserves an AO rating. Add in the sex stuff, but make it more realistic and hardcore. They should make all the violence and gore more realistic too. Now that would sell, and piss off Hilary Clinton at the same time.

[Garry Silljo]

Thank you for clarifying. The problem with the internet is I can't hear your voice and may read things in a tone not intended and get the completely wrong impression from you.

Yes, I have interacted with literally hundreds of dumb parents who don't get the ESRB. When I explain it to them, for example an "M" game. A very common response I get is "Well if it's like an R movie, then why isn't it rated R?" After hearing this about 50 times or so from DIFFERENT people, I've started to think that way too.

I say "Why NOT make it R?!?! It would make my job easier that's for damn sure." There are so many better ways I could help customers other than explaining the damn ratings system again, and again, and again....... By the way I work in a Target, but have overheard the stupidity at EB, Gamestop, Kay Bee Toys, and ...... It's EVERYWHERE.

Sorry to start a mini-spat over the thing. As I said, I got the wrong impression of your post.

[zmweasel]

What's really great is that the AO rating doesn't even matter. In America any 10 year old kid with $50 can go in a store and legally buy this AO rated game, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

It does matter, because major retailers won't carry AO-rated games. San Andreas would not have sold five million copies last year if it hadn't been available in Wal-Mart, GameStop, Software Etc., Target, Best Buy, et al.

-- Z.

[Garry Silljo]

Who is going to sell it now? I know Target really isn't into censorship. We do really good CD sales from all the Walmart customers who want the "real" version, or so they refer to it. That doesn't mean they will surely keep the game though. I don't think this issue has ever presented itself to them. Does anyone have a list of retailers who are keeping the title?

[Captain J]

Actually when they are doing it, he still has all of his clothes on so wouldnt that be considered dry humping and not sex? LOL

[davepesc]

The only thing that really matters is that there IS AO material and it was put there by Rockstar programmers, not a 3rd party hacker.

I'm going to take this as your answer to the question I asked you in another thread. So, in your opinion, Rockstar should be held legally accountable for all content on the game disc, even if portions of that content are inaccessible via normal gameplay, and can only be accessed by the (illegal) use of third-party mods or utilities.

And I could not disagree any more with you.

-- Z.

In talking with some other parents around the office (non gamers), they feel that yes, they should be responsible for EVERYTHING on the disc. Their argument is that Rockstar should have reasonably assumed that anything on the disc would have been found. I had trouble refuting this because everything gets found, from the secret areas (leftover code) in Mountain King and Metroid right up to Hot Coffee.

In the end, I don't fault R* for leaving it there, but the rating is deserved.

[Jive3D]

I really think that the M should have it covered.

However there is a difference between the label on the game box saying "Strong Sexual Content" & "Acts of Sexual Intercourse." The former could be someone talking about a blowjob but the latter could nto be mistaken for anything other than blatent 'push-push.'

I'm still of the mindset, that since this was NOT accessible via the regular game and needed a MOD in order to find it that the M should have it covered since these scenes are not supposed to appear.

Since they went that far, it's a wonder to me that they did not include poop-sex. But I digress...

[tritium]

GTA: All of them deserved an AO rating from the beginning, the jump between 17 and 18 isn't much, but at least it would make it clear for parents that it contained realistic violence, and possible sexual situations.

I think the M rating is useless personally. The T rating is 14+ AO is 18+ there shouldn't be a need for an in between rating, but thats just me.

Now the reason I beleive this is that not all kids can differenciate b/w reality and fantasy. Hence lets make it absolutely clear that this form of entertainment is for adults.

<sigh>

I mean the original mortal kombat, though violent, was obviously fake due to the lack of realism inits technology, however things have changed quite a bit since.

[Dart]

Come on, people. They're just polygons. The female parts don't look realistic at all.

[Gamereviewgod]

GTA: All of them deserved an AO rating from the beginning, the jump between 17 and 18 isn't much, but at least it would make it clear for parents that it contained realistic violence, and possible sexual situations.

If they didn't see the M, how will they see the AO? GTA SA was already labeled for sex and violence.

[Wavelflack]

I think it should have been AO to begin with, so I guess I give it AO.

As for sex vs. violence, I think both are things that children really don't need to explore or have made available to them. I also think that sexual material is actually more influential to kids (particularly teenagers), simply for the fact that they have natural inclinations toward that in the first place, and probably don't need to be further inspired. To prove my point, put a gun and a chick in a room, and ask a teenage boy which he would rather mess around with. Go out and shoot people up, or get laid? Hmmm..

[zmweasel]

In talking with some other parents around the office (non gamers), they feel that yes, they should be responsible for EVERYTHING on the disc. Their argument is that Rockstar should have reasonably assumed that anything on the disc would have been found. I had trouble refuting this because everything gets found, from the secret areas (leftover code) in Mountain King and Metroid right up to Hot Coffee.

And you didn't counter with the fact that, unlike those Mountain King and Metroid glitches (which aren't even real "secrets"), this content CANNOT BE SEEN unless you use an illegal third-party mod, that it's literally impossible to "stumble into" this sequence via normal gameplay?

And did you mention to these parents that GTA: SA was already rated M (17+)?

-- Z.

[Dart]

I'm 16 and I've been playing video games for at least ten years and I've never been inspired to do anything bad. In fact, violent games like Mortal Kombat were some of the first games I was ever exposed to and I'm not violent at all. There are some stupid kids out there, but most kids are mature enough to differentiate between fantasy and reality by the time they're in early elementary school. If not, either the kid is really screwed up or their parents did a bad job raising them. People need to stop using video games as scapegoats and take personal responsibility.

[zmweasel]

Just so everyone knows, the REAL code of whats in the game didn't have any nudity, the girl is wearing a R* shirt, and a thong. There is 2 versions of the mod, one that lets you access that, and then this one, that makes the girls naked. If you put in the code on the PS2 (dont know if anyone has the XBox one figured out yet?) there isnt any nudity, so this whole topic is misleading. There is such a large amount of confusion behind this whole damn thing its insane.

Nice! That renders this poll null and void, since it's unfairly based on a video clip of nudity CREATED by a third party. It's like asking if Tomb Raider should be rated AO because of the Nude Raider mod.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

I think it should have been AO to begin with, so I guess I give it AO.

As for sex vs. violence, I think both are things that children really don't need to explore or have made available to them. I also think that sexual material is actually more influential to kids (particularly teenagers), simply for the fact that they have natural inclinations toward that in the first place, and probably don't need to be further inspired. To prove my point, put a gun and a chick in a room, and ask a teenage boy which he would rather mess around with. Go out and shoot people up, or get laid? Hmmm..

This is too close to a ridiculous line from a spokesman for the idiots at PETA: "Put a baby in a crib with an apple and a rabbit and see which one he eats first."

Not to mention that, if the chick is uncooperative, the teenage boy can always use the gun to force her into cooperating.

-- Z.

[Wavelflack]

Thanks for being pointless and tangential.

Address the question in the scenario given. You know it's true.

Or simply ask yourself what you were more interested in when you were a teenager? Which "line" would you naturally be more apt to cross? Which has more of an inherent stigma attached to it? Committing murder, or losing your virginity?

How about these days? Which one are you more interested in?

[zmweasel]

Thanks for being pointless and tangential

My point was that both analogies are silly.

Not to mention that your analogy assumes the theoretical chick in the theoretical room will want to fuck the teenage boy, which is more offensive than the dormant AO content in San Andreas.

-- Z.

[Wavelflack]

The "analogy" is about the teenage boy's natural inclinations, not the obstacles he will be presented with in the course of following his desires.

Also, not to nitpick or anything, but it's not an analogy. What are the analogues to my scenario? Guns = guns? Sex = sex? I'm discussing the issue at hand using the relevant examples.

At any rate, I'd like to see you address the given scenario(s). You could also answer the specific questions from the last paragraph of my previous post, but I don't want to appear too greedy.

[RetroYoungen]

I voted M. Personally, I think there should be more strict rules on who can buy an M-rated game as it is. I don't see much of a reason for an AO rating, as M should cover all of that anyway.

Kids shouldn't be playing this game ANYway, I would hope parents would see a game named GRAND THEFT AUTO and thinkg "Hmm, maybe Junior shouldn't be playing this game... they steal cars..." Stupid parents.

[Bluteg]

Wavelflack... your objectification of women lost all credibility for your post. Your comparison of a gun to a chick doesn't show that a gun is an object while the chick has to consent for sex for it to be achieved. Otherwise that would be rape... a subject R* has never touched. The bottom line is that 2 clothed adults "dry humping" each other does not deserve a NC-17. So why does this? AO has the same stimga of PORN as does its direct comparision in the movie industry... the NC-17 rating.

[Wavelflack]

"Wavelflack... your objectification of women lost all credibility for your post. Your comparison of a gun to a chick doesn't show that a gun is an object while the chick has to consent for sex for it to be achieved."


I never compared a gun to a chick, which condemns the rest of your objection to irrelevancy. I asked which course the boy would pursue...the chick, or the gun.
Reread (or even "read") my post again. Edit button is working, so help yourself to the services.

[Bluteg]

Well maybe you need to change "mess around with" to "pursue". The edit button is still working!

[Wavelflack]

I think everyone inherently understands what "mess around with" means.

Haven't you ever "messed around with" a girl (or guy)? Maybe not, but the point still stands.

"ask a teenage boy which he would rather mess around with"

It's perfectly clear. "Pursue" doesn't even make sense in the context given. "Pursue the gun"?
In addition, if you wish to play the false sensitivity game, I will point out that "pursue" denotes aggressive designs that culminate in capture. Are you advocating such a sexist and inhumane method of interacting with the opposite sex?

We can play the sophistry game for however long you like, but it'd be more expedient for you to either address the scenario I've presented, or simply find another thread.

:)