First GTA:SA , Now the SIMS 2... Please stop!!

[Muscelli]

http://gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html

Whee, here I come ebay @_@

[Lady Jaye]

That Thompson guy makes Joe Lieberman look like Henry Jenkins...

And who cares if the actual nudity in the Sims 2 is Ken and Barbie-like? At least, it's blurred so that even younger kids could play it without getting the parents in a hissy. And if there's anything more explicit for the game, it's most likely coming from a fan mod than from EA themselves or Maxis.

What's next? Asking for Nintendo to recall the Super Mario series because the mushrooms promote drug use?

[SKVermin]

So by this rationale, Mattel will be the next target. I guess that Barbie's clothes should be molded into a permanent part of the doll and not be removeable?

I think I should start a crusade of my own. I think that all the standing on soapboxes that these politicians have been doing lately violates the civil rights of said soapbox. For decades, the soapbox has fought to crawl out from underneath the feet of THE MAN. The soapbox is entitled to the same fundamental rights and freedoms of all citizens, and this outrage must be brought to an end! :)

[GrayFox]

What the hell, this is just getting ridiculous.


And after checking out this Jack Thompson fellow, I give out a laugh.

[Kuros]

To put it bluntly, Thompson should shut his fucking mouth.

I'm tired of assholes like him trying to dictate what I can and can't play.

He's just trying to stir up trouble so he will get noticed, and unfortunally it's working.

[Gamereviewgod]

Anyone know how much Thompson charges when he takes a parent to court because their kid did something stupid? It's a stat I've been looking for.

[Mr.FoodMonster]

"Antigaming activist"


What. The. Fuck?

[OdSquad64]

Anyone know how much Thompson charges when he takes a parent to court because their kid did something stupid? It's a stat I've been looking for.

maybe you should e-mail him and ask him at jackpeace@comcast.net ...and tell him he's a fucktard

[Dart]

Jack Thompson is an ass.

[Cryomancer]

Has anyone ever considered the opinions of people like myself who are deeply and personally offended by the very concept of censorship? Why does my opinion not matter?

I guess it's because I don't have money and a god to get people to rally behind me with.

edit: and these people still let those pedophile daiper commercials on the air.

[esquire]

So by this rationale, Mattel will be the next target. I guess that Barbie's clothes should be molded into a permanent part of the doll and not be removeable?

Since when did Mattel start placing genitalia on Barbie dolls? Unless I am mistaken, there are none, and your analogy is completely misguided.

Quite frankly, I don't see a problem here. It's about time game developers become accountable to the consumer public. They are reaping the economic benefit of their products, while at the same time not properly labeling the content upon the agreed upon ratings system. I think game developers have a duty to truthfully disclose the content of their product pursuant to the agreed upon ratings system. This allows the consumer to make an educated decision as to whether the product is suitable for either themselves or their families, especially minor children.

If the the game developers want to mass market their product to all levels of the consumer market, then they shouldn't place such content in their products. On the other hand, there is nothing preventing them from selling the product "as is", as long as they truthfully disclose the content. It's no different than cigarettes, alcohol, NC-17 movies or adult magazines. Nothing's preventing the producers of any of those products from manufacturering and selling their goods. They simply can't sell their items to minors.

Am I missing something here? Why is this a big deal to some of you (other than the fact you may be 17 years old or younger). This is not censorship. Nothing is stoping any of these developers from selling their product "as is." They simply have to disclose its content or otherwise make the product conform to the agreed upon ratings system if they want to sell to the target audience. They can't have their cake and eat it too.

[Slimedog]

I was actually laughing at this until I realized it wasn't an onion article. And what minus world did he discover that had labia in it?

[Gamereviewgod]

Since when did Mattel start placing genitalia on Barbie dolls? Unless I am mistaken, there are none, and your analogy is completely misguided.

The Sims has nudity on the same level.


They are reaping the economic benefit of their products, while at the same time not properly labeling the content upon the agreed upon ratings system. I think game developers have a duty to truthfully disclose the content of their product pursuant to the agreed upon ratings system.


It's a mod, not something EA put in the game. If you take away the blocks, it's flat. There's nothing here that could push the rating any higher.


This is not censorship

I want to go to Best Buy and buy GTA SA right now. Oh wait, that's right. I can't.

[Lothars]

http://gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html

Whee, here I come ebay @_@


This thompson guy is a definite idiot, I can't believe he says that wow, what an idiot that's enough to piss me off

all this is opening the door to censorship and banning a game that has something someone doesn't like

I hope whatever happens with this, they tell Jack Thompson to screw off and ends up looking like the moron he is.

wow makes you shake your head.

[GrandAmChandler]

Like I said in the GTA thread, this is just the tip of the iceberg... I don't doubt we will see even more games exposed and accused of being AO.

[Logicdustbin]

These are actual in-game screenshots of Virtual EVE™, the 3D sex game featuring virtual girl EVE.


Warning: NOT SAFE FOR WORK

go ahead and click here...you know you want to, even though you are, in fact, at work... (http://www.virtualeve.com/screenshots_3dsexgames/virtualgirls.htm)

[Cmosfm]

I completely agreed with GTA:SA...

...but THIS? This is stupid, wow, you see a penis, a cartoon penis...and a cartoon boob...I'm sure every teenager in the world has looked at him/herself in the mirror.

I'd understand if they had explicit sex in the game, but they don't, it's nudity. I see that shit in my national geographic magazines.

As a matter of fact, I seen it as a kid in the PG rated movie "Baby: Secret Of The Lost Legend".

Sex = AO & Nudity = Teen. That's not hard to figure out. I seen a tit in Titanic for cryin' out loud!

[Muscelli]

wait, is this sort of like in sims 1, where u put in the move objects code, then when they are in the bathtub, move it? cuz if it is... I will laugh so hard... Hed better change the rating of illbleed, and rings of power before its too late!!

[Damion]

Damn GTA Deserves a AO rating and not for the Sexual content IMO. but this guy is on a freaking witch hunt. there is nothing implied even with the Bluring other then what god gave you. how would a pedo "Act out" abuse in the sims? They act and do things on there own and theres nothing you could do with the children to make them play "Doctor" this guys is an ASS.

[bazariah]

i was popping pills and listening to repetitive beats in a darkend room when i was 18, damn! time they banned the pac-man games

this dude is a complete tit, i mean fuck the games are rated appropriatly.. why is he so against sexual references, violence and whatever else in games? i mean it's not that bad realy and there are worse things to be read in books or seen on the 6 o'clock news.. i mean with the news it'll just come on screen two people shot dead in iraq (example) then proceed to show imagrey of the grisly scene with no diclaimer, with games at least the parent can view the product before hand to see if it is sutible for their child

furthermore if games are also supposed to encourage violence then what was hitlers references for killing so many innocents in the 1939-1945 conflicts?? the names vlad the impaler and genghis khan come to mind too, did they have games to play when they decided to commit their attrocities against humanity?

then there were the vikings, they had a right ball plundering our villages and raping our young nearly 2000 years ago maybe they played too much sims and got ideas, hmm i wonder?

fuckit lets stop our kids from playing the so called nasty titles in the safety and privacy of their own home and send them to scouts or church were they can be buggered by the scout master or vicar

[Griking]

I doubt that you'll see any changes made to the Sims 2 rating unless you find pornographic images in the original game code. That in my opinion is the big difference here. The porn was already in GTA and a hacker just made it easy to access. The Sims 2 as far as I can see didn't have anything inappropriate in the original code. Everything objectionable was actually added by the mod makers. Again, big difference.

[GarrettCRW]

As Pete Townshend once said, it's an eminence front. A put on.

This is all BS, and Thompson is happy to engage in it, simply for fortune and glory, I suspect.

Isn't he the guy that hounded Ozzy and Judas Priest in the '80s?

[kainemaxwell]

Bigges tload of BS I've seen all day. Guy needs to get out more.

[Wavelflack]

[quote]This is not censorship

I want to go to Best Buy and buy GTA SA right now. Oh wait, that's right. I can't.

I want to go to Best Buy and purchase a hamburger. Oh, I can't do that either. I guess it's because Best Buy has certain criteria for what it will and will not sell.

No one is telling R* they can't sell their game as is. It's just that most of the major chains are not interested in buying it. This is like the Dixie Chicks talking about "censorship" because radio stations stopped playing their music and people stopped buying their albums.

A letter isn't censored just because you refuse to receive it.

[bazariah]

No one is telling R* they can't sell their game as is. It's just that most of the major chains are not interested in buying it.

but the majors probably didnt give two shits before the controversy, while it was the biggest selling game of 2004 and when it was making them shed loads of cash

[njiska]

You know i was gonna write a big long drawn out arguement over why this is completely insane, but i just can't. I'm tired. This whole situation is just completely over-blown and i for one am sick of it. Hot coffee set a danerous precident and it's one that will haunt all of us for years. The close-minded anti-gaming advocates, "Family" groups, christian right and other anti-offensive content groups have power now. We enjoyed a good long run of freedom, but now it's over. The shit has hit the fan and it broke it. I'm tired of these debates, i'm tired of Jack Thompson and i'm tired of the mentality. I just can't handle it anymore. So i'm gonna sum up my views like this.

FUCK Jack Thompson's of the world
FUCK Parents Groups
FUCK The idiots who can't realise just how stupid they sound.

Censorship is wrong, Federally enforced censorship is worse. The ESRB is the greatest ratings system in the world, but they're here to rate the stock content. They are not responsible for any mods used. Hot coffee may not add sex games to GTA but by god it does alter the code and if you alter the code then god damn it you're no longer playing the game the ESRB rated. Rating games make sense, hypocirtical panic over stuff that is not in developer control is just insane.

The only way to put an end to this is if we the entire community, every god damn gamer, stands united and cries out, "I'm mad as hell and i'm not gonna take it anymore!"

It's one thing to bitch on the forums, but the fact is we don't do anything here. It's time we make are voices heard. Take your arguments and bring them to the ESA, bring them to the developers, bring them to the people. Are side is never properly repersented in these cases and it's about time it was.

Despite my usual spirt, there's no jokes here. I'm dead serious.

That's all i can say. I'm just too tired, too fed up to say any more except... Fuck this i'm goin' to the pub. Thank you, i'm out.

[Dart]

^ Very nicely said.

[Wavelflack]

No one is telling R* they can't sell their game as is. It's just that most of the major chains are not interested in buying it.

but the majors probably didnt give two shits before the controversy, while it was the biggest selling game of 2004 and when it was making them shed loads of cash

Did they have policies of not stocking AO rated games? GTA SA wasn't AO until now.

Are you suggesting that stores should not have control over what product they wish to carry?

[GarrettCRW]

No one is telling R* they can't sell their game as is. It's just that most of the major chains are not interested in buying it.

but the majors probably didnt give two shits before the controversy, while it was the biggest selling game of 2004 and when it was making them shed loads of cash

Did they have policies of not stocking AO rated games? GTA SA wasn't AO until now.

Are you suggesting that stores should not have control over what product they wish to carry?

The point is that the big box stores (including my employer, Target, and the other chains who have dumped SA like a bad habit) cared only about making a ton of money-and they still do (they refuse to carry AO games only because of the bad PR, particularly in this example). Businesses often care about one thing-the bottom line. And the stores that have dropped GTA are sorely guilty of this highly reactionary policy. That's what they deserve to be criticized for-being gutless reactionaries instead of taking a stand when the game was first released.

Now, Thompson, family groups, and fake Democrats deserve blame for any pulling of the game from shelves, because they were waiting for this like vultures. None of them have ever played video games, and if they have, it was during the craze of the early '80s. They know nothing of the industry, of the good companies and games, of the truly abhorrent ones , or any of that. All they know is that they don't understand games, particularly the ones developed by the Japanese (yes, I'm implying latent nationalism and/or racism here). This scares them to death, especially since they absolutely have to control everything. It's all about power, over children no less, and video games represent something where these people have none.

Rockstar? If anything, they're guilty of being stupid. They obviously had a hard release date for SA, and eliminating this well-hidden chunk of code could have seriously delayed the games, especially if bugs were to pop up by removing it. We can discuss the content of the series until our faces turn blue, but it's this dropped sequence that's causing them so much grief. Rockstar should have known that something like this would cause problems with the Neo Cons. Now, if a rogue programmer did this, Rockstar is a bit less guilty. But they absolutely need to know that GTA, a lightening rod of a series (which Rockstar is well aware of), will be scrutinized, and that any flub up is going to be noticed by the obsessive control freaks.

I'm pretty much in agreement with njiska here-we need to fight back. The "family" groups are targeting a so-called "marginal" group of people-one who just happens to not be particularly politically active. It's time for a serious bit of people power, kids, unless you really want this mess to reach its (il)logical conclusion.

[SKVermin]

So by this rationale, Mattel will be the next target. I guess that Barbie's clothes should be molded into a permanent part of the doll and not be removeable?

Since when did Mattel start placing genitalia on Barbie dolls? Unless I am mistaken, there are none, and your analogy is completely misguided.

Since when did The Sims 2 start placing genetalia on their characters? Yes, you are mistaken, there is none, my analogy is properly guided. :) I think somebody else already stated it, but if not, the "nudity" that's revealed in The Sims by removing the "Cops Blur" is no more anatomically correct than a Barbie or Ken doll.

Christ, Jack. The whole "murder simulator" argument over Doom and the like has been weak enough. But to claim that The Sims is a pedophelia (sp?) simulator? This ass should record himself and listen to the playback to see how ridiculous he really sounds.

[njiska]

All they know is that they don't understand games, particularly the ones developed by the Japanese (yes, I'm implying latent nationalism and/or racism here).

Ya got balls to imply racisim i'll give ya that. But you're absolutely right that understanding is what's really lacking here.


I'm pretty much in agreement with njiska here-we need to fight back. The "family" groups are targeting a so-called "marginal" group of people-one who just happens to not be particularly politically active. It's time for a serious bit of people power, kids, unless you really want this mess to reach its (il)logical conclusion.

Well then i guess we need to start us a good ol' fashioned internation non-profit grass-roots organization. Any ideas how? I'm not joking, we really need to unite under one banner to fight this injustice. I'm willing to stand up, hell i'm willing do whatever it takes. Gaming was never just about senseless killing to me. No, gaming is art and it's getting the shaft. Our opponents have Jack Thompson, The PTC and various other right-wing groups (i'm not trying to show a political bias, it's just how the cards fall.) but who do we have? EFF and ACLU occasionally step in occasionally but honestly did you see anyone standing up in the last month and publicly defending the ESRB aside from the ESA? (which is kind of a given since they run the esrb) I don't even recall hearing any defense from Joe Liberman (as ironic as it would've been) who repeatedly praises the ESRB.

The time to act is now, we've got to strike while the iron is hot, we must stand up for are beliefs, or things will never change. We need a public group to defend our side and it's up to us to start it. Only gamers can defend gaming from the coming storm. So who knows how to do it and who's willing to help me do it? How can we start something?

[Push Upstairs]

This guy makes me laugh. LOL

From his idiot rantings to going after EA...a company that could hire lawyers that far exceed his own abilities.

I say let him go after EA. If they go through the code and there is nothing there then this guy will look like a bigger loser than he already is.

[njiska]

This guy makes me laugh. LOL

From his idiot rantings to going after EA...a company that could hire lawyers that far exceed his own abilities.

I say let him go after EA. If they go through the code and there is nothing there then this guy will look like a bigger loser than he already is.

nah i really want him to go after America's Army. That IS a killing simulator, but i bet you if he did he'd be classified an enemy combatant and we all know what that gets you, a never ending cuban vaction.

[Push Upstairs]

I'm game for this group that sole purpose is to defend games.

Who else? Seriously, there has to be enough people online (anywhere) and someone out of all those people has to know someone who knows someone.

[slip81]

It's not just the adults that are liberated from their wardrobes. Sims kids can also be nudified, "much to the delight, one can be sure, of pedophiles around the globe who can rehearse, in virtual reality, for their abuse."

What, reherse? I've played the Sims 2 as a male character quite a few times. Have I somehow missed the greeting actions that say "Stick your dick in small child," "Touch little Sally in her no no area?" And if so, where can I get the code to unlock it LOL

What a joke. I'm gonna go bury myself in the ice in Antartica. Someone come an thaw me out when intelligent beings run the country.

[sealboy6]

It's not just the adults that are liberated from their wardrobes. Sims kids can also be nudified, "much to the delight, one can be sure, of pedophiles around the globe who can rehearse, in virtual reality, for their abuse."

What, reherse? I've played the Sims 2 as a male character quite a few times. Have I somehow missed the greeting actions that say "Stick your dick in small child," "Touch little Sally in her no no area?" And if so, where can I get the code to unlock it LOL

What a joke. I'm gonna go bury myself in the ice in Antartica. Someone come an thaw me out when intelligent beings run the country.

I think intelligent groups do run this country. MOst of the people who run this country don't post on a board with a bunch of people who have nothing better to do.
I personally don't think that video games should get this harsh rating. It's sad because people just don't understand what video games are. They are VIDEO GAMES! Rated R movies are worse than most of the video games, because that has actual people doing bad things or getting killed. I can't say that I think that Sims 2 is worse than a Saving Private Ryan or any R movie that a kid can just sneak into. Movies are more realistic, but they don't get the same scorn that video games do because they still, sad to say, are not mainstream. Video games don't advertise and aren't front page news, so parents and other people don't understand video games. We can't just start a petition or go after EA. We have to try to prove video games worth, and bring them into the mainstream. If people see video gamers as a vigilante group who is just trying to go after the "Christian Groups" (as many of you say), then we will get the scorn of the media, and we will be prejudiced against even more.

I believe that San Andreas going to AO is an awful thing for video games, because now that this has happened, some groups will go after other games like God of War. I don't think we can become so defensive, I guess, in the long run. We need to try to let people understand where we are coming from, and I don't think that will happen for years to come.

Finally, I would just like to say that getting mad at this guy trying to changed the Sims2 is pretty stupid. He has his rights, and we have ours. Though what he is doing is against what we believe, he is allowed to do it. It is sad that he can do this without a hint of intelligence when talking about the subject, but hey, we have to live with it.

[The_Kodiak65]

okay, now it's just going to fucking far.....really, the Sims series emulates life, and sometimes in life, ya have to be naked...the companies who made the game covered it up with the blur, and there, problem solved!
but, some people decide they like the sims naked, so they program a patch to show nudity, and then they distribute it over the internet.....so, it's not the game or the company thats immoral, but the fuckers who make the patches or the codes.I f Thompson want to go after anybody, he should track down the people who program the codes, b/c they can turn a rom of Super Mario Bros. 3 in to Super Hornio Bros. 3: the Quest for Princess's Pussy.
I've some sick shit in some roms, I just pray to God that Mr. Thompson doesn't see them, for them gaming world as we know it could come crashing down.... :angry:

oh, btw, who ever made the Hot coffee patch availble online,

FUCK YOU!

you single handedly opened the flood gate to Thompson and others like him! You just gave him a reason to pursue his twisted dreams of harsher standards, and video game banings......

[njiska]

It's not just the adults that are liberated from their wardrobes. Sims kids can also be nudified, "much to the delight, one can be sure, of pedophiles around the globe who can rehearse, in virtual reality, for their abuse."

What, reherse? I've played the Sims 2 as a male character quite a few times. Have I somehow missed the greeting actions that say "Stick your dick in small child," "Touch little Sally in her no no area?" And if so, where can I get the code to unlock it LOL

What a joke. I'm gonna go bury myself in the ice in Antartica. Someone come an thaw me out when intelligent beings run the country.

I think intelligent groups do run this country. MOst of the people who run this country don't post on a board with a bunch of people who have nothing better to do.
I personally don't think that video games should get this harsh rating. It's sad because people just don't understand what video games are. They are VIDEO GAMES! Rated R movies are worse than most of the video games, because that has actual people doing bad things or getting killed. I can't say that I think that Sims 2 is worse than a Saving Private Ryan or any R movie that a kid can just sneak into. Movies are more realistic, but they don't get the same scorn that video games do because they still, sad to say, are not mainstream. Video games don't advertise and aren't front page news, so parents and other people don't understand video games. We can't just start a petition or go after EA. We have to try to prove video games worth, and bring them into the mainstream. If people see video gamers as a vigilante group who is just trying to go after the "Christian Groups" (as many of you say), then we will get the scorn of the media, and we will be prejudiced against even more.

I believe that San Andreas going to AO is an awful thing for video games, because now that this has happened, some groups will go after other games like God of War. I don't think we can become so defensive, I guess, in the long run. We need to try to let people understand where we are coming from, and I don't think that will happen for years to come.

Finally, I would just like to say that getting mad at this guy trying to changed the Sims2 is pretty stupid. He has his rights, and we have ours. Though what he is doing is against what we believe, he is allowed to do it. It is sad that he can do this without a hint of intelligence when talking about the subject, but hey, we have to live with it.

Well said. He is allowed to voice his opinion, and we are allowed to voice ours. However he, like the many groups, are actively lobbying and we aren't. You're right we can't openly attack christian groups, however one also cannot ignore that statistically christ groups side against our stance, thus it comes down to the question of how to be tactful. Education is important but no one is doing it. Where are the people on news shows educating people. These people aren't going to o pick up a game and try to understand it. The only way to reach them is buy using intellegent forms to educate them. Jack Thompson gets time on news networks to try and "educate" people about his side of the arguement. What are we doing? The idea is to change the mindset of people, not to attack problems like Mr. Thompson. He must be adressed yes, but he's only part of the bigger picture.

[pixelsnpolygons]

What a stupid mother fucker.

[Richter Belmount]

lol whats all the worry everyone here is atleast over 18 eh?

[njiska]

lol whats all the worry everyone here is atleast over 18 eh?

Yeah but that's not the point. The things is that this is becoming a witch hunt. Soon every little thing in a game will come under scrutiny. For christs sake this guy wants to ban the sims and he will lobby for it. If this continues soon games like god of war will come under fire and things will snowball. AO games don't get on a lot of shelves so developers don't make them, but if things keep going the way they are now, soon many thing once consider mature could be re-classified AO. Censorship will cripple the creativity of the industry. This is about freedom of expression. Fairly rated and classified freedom of expression.

[bazariah]

hey maybe wisdom tree should come back and bring us some decent quality titles like joshua or bible buffet, they were damn good games and not to mention kinda illegal..

yeah thats it they should come back with their rip-off religious titles

and while that dudes at it he should try and get resident evil banned because it made me want to go out on a zombie hunt..

[pixelsnpolygons]

yeah thats it they should come back with their rip-off religious titles

Maybe they should...

And then I'll make it my duty to get their shit banned from stores for "brainwashing kids through religious games". We'll see how far I get.

[GizmoGC]

Son a bitch. Most have already said what I am thinking, but I can't beleive it. How is this going to help anything? First Rockstar, but now EA? I hope this Thompson guy knows what he is doing, because EA dosn't fuck around.

[slip81]

I really hope it doesn't happen (and I don't think it will, knock on wood). But it would be a tad humerous if something so small like "hot coffee" brought about a gaming crash of 2005-2006.

Just like E.T was so bad that it sunk the industry back in '83, SA will be so racey that it will sink the industry just over 20 years later.

The question is though, if there's another crash; will we start over with 8-bit?

[Gamereviewgod]

He has his rights, and we have ours. Though what he is doing is against what we believe, he is allowed to do it.

And we have a right to voice ourselves and let people know he's lying to get his point across.

[CartCollector]

yeah thats it they should come back with their rip-off religious titles

Maybe they should...

And then I'll make it my duty to get their shit banned from stores for "brainwashing kids through religious games". We'll see how far I get.
There's a company called Left Behind Games which is (suprise) based on the Left Behind series. They aim to "bring morally just and family-friendly games to the masses." So it looks like you have a target!
Oh yeah, their first game is a RTS about fighting the forces of Satan in a post-Apocalypse setting. Family-friendly fun, isn't it?

link (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/01/news_6128575.html)

[Humanoid]

I think intelligent groups do run this country. MOst of the people who run this country don't post on a board with a bunch of people who have nothing better to do.
I personally don't think that video games should get this harsh rating. It's sad because people just don't understand what video games are. They are VIDEO GAMES! Rated R movies are worse than most of the video games, because that has actual people doing bad things or getting killed. I can't say that I think that Sims 2 is worse than a Saving Private Ryan or any R movie that a kid can just sneak into. Movies are more realistic, but they don't get the same scorn that video games do because they still, sad to say, are not mainstream. Video games don't advertise and aren't front page news, so parents and other people don't understand video games. We can't just start a petition or go after EA. We have to try to prove video games worth, and bring them into the mainstream. If people see video gamers as a vigilante group who is just trying to go after the "Christian Groups" (as many of you say), then we will get the scorn of the media, and we will be prejudiced against even more.

I believe that San Andreas going to AO is an awful thing for video games, because now that this has happened, some groups will go after other games like God of War. I don't think we can become so defensive, I guess, in the long run. We need to try to let people understand where we are coming from, and I don't think that will happen for years to come.

Finally, I would just like to say that getting mad at this guy trying to changed the Sims2 is pretty stupid. He has his rights, and we have ours. Though what he is doing is against what we believe, he is allowed to do it. It is sad that he can do this without a hint of intelligence when talking about the subject, but hey, we have to live with it.

Aside from the first two sentances, well said. I think Dick Cheney plays minesweeper all day though. Perhaps if someone emailed him a link....

Oh, and I'd also like to point out that new forms of art/media have always had their detractors. TV, Movies, Rock N' Roll, Surrealism, etc. Eventually though, they all have become accepted. Hopefully, the same thing will work with video games!

[njiska]

hey maybe wisdom tree should come back and bring us some decent quality titles like joshua or bible buffet, they were damn good games and not to mention kinda illegal..

yeah thats it they should come back with their rip-off religious titles

Hey don't you be hatin' on wisdom tree. They're responsible from the greatest irony in gaming history. I mean come on, in order to play super noah's ark you had to buy Wolf 3d or Doom. In other words you have to buy demonic horribly violent games in order to play a good christian game. Anybody care to guess how many kids pulled the Noahs ark pass-thru cart out and just played Doom or Wolf? LOL

[Humanoid]

You dont need Wolf3d or doom. Just a SNES cart.

[bazariah]

hey maybe wisdom tree should come back and bring us some decent quality titles like joshua or bible buffet, they were damn good games and not to mention kinda illegal..

yeah thats it they should come back with their rip-off religious titles

Hey don't you be hatin' on wisdom tree. They're responsible from the greatest irony in gaming history. I mean come on, in order to play super noah's ark you had to buy Wolf 3d or Doom. In other words you have to buy demonic horribly violent games in order to play a good christian game. Anybody care to guess how many kids pulled the Noahs ark pass-thru cart out and just played Doom or Wolf? LOL

hey man im not hating them, under the name colour dreams they had some cool shite

[Push Upstairs]

So if we are all against this video game witch hunt....what are we going to do about it?

[Push Upstairs]

So if we don't like this video game witch hunt, what can *we* do to stop it?

[Push Upstairs]

So if we don't like this video game witch hunt, what can *we* do to stop it?

[njiska]

You dont need Wolf3d or doom. Just a SNES cart.

I was under the impression that it leeched data off those carts. Especially since it's essentially just a mod. I mean the fricken level designs were the same. Well at least for the one i played through a wolfenstien 3d cart.


Wisdom Tree: Super 3D Noah's Ark. Was a game that required Doom or Wolfenstein 3D to use it. It utilized the engine of the games and placed Noah over the main character and you threw fruit at the animals to get them back to the ark.
Related Link (http://vidgame.net/NINTENDO/snesperph.htm)

If you can provide some proof to the contary i'd like to see it.

[sealboy6]

He has his rights, and we have ours. Though what he is doing is against what we believe, he is allowed to do it.

And we have a right to voice ourselves and let people know he's lying to get his point across.

I'm not saying that we can not voice our opinions. BUt if we just start screaming that he is wrong, then we will have shot ourselves in the foot. I don't know that he is lying though. He is biased against video games, so if he doesn't have the intelligence to research the facts, then he is not lying. He is just stating something without much intelligence.

[sealboy6]

So if we don't like this video game witch hunt, what can *we* do to stop it?

I don't think we can do much. Thompson has money and power as a lobbyists, and any congressman or senator would we stupid to vote against a bill to stop bad video games. Most people don't want bad video games, so obviously, somebody speaking out against them will be able to gain power among the people of this nation.

The only thing, I think, that we can do is to show how illogical this is. When I was 10 years old, I read Rising Sun by Michael Crighton. I think there were about 300 f words and a rape was talked about. This would definitely be rated R or M, but I was 10 and read it. This is where we come in. If video games should be rateed more harshly because of "bad" things, then we can also say that books and tv and movies even more should be rated more harshly. It is illogical to try to rate and keep away from people everything bad from happening, because it is against our first ammendment rights. I don't think we can come across too bold though, so I think we need an intelligent way to stop them, and to try to show that video games are our friends, not our foes.

[sealboy6]

[UPDATE] Thompson this afternoon updated his earlier statement, saying he is aware certain mods only remove "the blur," but adds that "Electronic Arts has done nothing about this." Thompson's new conclusion: EA is "cooperating, gleefully, with the mod community to turn Sims 2 into a porn offering."

Ya, I knew it was a mod, but Thompson saying that EA is cooperating with the modders is weird. I don't know where he is coming from...

Quick question. If the Sims 2 came with these already in place and deserved an AO rating, do you think that people would be talking about this, or would any of you have a problem with this game being sold.

[njiska]

hey maybe wisdom tree should come back and bring us some decent quality titles like joshua or bible buffet, they were damn good games and not to mention kinda illegal..

yeah thats it they should come back with their rip-off religious titles

Hey don't you be hatin' on wisdom tree. They're responsible from the greatest irony in gaming history. I mean come on, in order to play super noah's ark you had to buy Wolf 3d or Doom. In other words you have to buy demonic horribly violent games in order to play a good christian game. Anybody care to guess how many kids pulled the Noahs ark pass-thru cart out and just played Doom or Wolf? LOL

hey man im not hating them, under the name colour dreams they had some cool shite

Hey i was just joking anyways.

[bazariah]

Hey i was just joking anyways.

aha thats cool beans then :D


back on topic this polotician guy sounds like a fucking parasite, leeching of one of todays current biggest industries

i actually wonder if this guy would be so against games if A: he'd actually played them or B: he done some research about them.. and if he's so against gta:sa and sims 2 so much wheres he gonna stop, i bet it'd be his intention to find fault with any and all videogames out there on the market

[Gamereviewgod]

back on topic this polotician guy sounds like a fucking parasite, leeching of one of todays current biggest industries


he's a laywer, not a politician.

[Frankie23]

[UPDATE] Thompson this afternoon updated his earlier statement, saying he is aware certain mods only remove "the blur," but adds that "Electronic Arts has done nothing about this." Thompson's new conclusion: EA is "cooperating, gleefully, with the mod community to turn Sims 2 into a porn offering."

Ya, I knew it was a mod, but Thompson saying that EA is cooperating with the modders is weird. I don't know where he is coming from...

He's just making it up. Say things loud enough and no one questions your sources. That's how lawyers operate, and this guy's a pro.

[Mattiekrome]

:angry:

This guy needs to get laid... Argh! I am not a big fan of this jackoff thompson guy

Ok, the whole hot coffee thing, woo hoo, here is your gold star sticker, stick it to your chest and wear it proudly. I personally agree with the AO rating for SA (rockstar should have taken the code out IMO), but going after the sims is just too far over the line. He is apparently trying to make a huge deal out of nothing. He popped a chubby whenever he led the calvary over the whole GTA hot coffee thing, and now that he is "on a roll" he is going back for more... Good luck, I hope EA makes you look like a total dumbass

[evildead2099]

back on topic this polotician guy sounds like a fucking parasite, leeching of one of todays current biggest industries


he's a laywer, not a politician.

How is it possible for people who're so ignorant about the things which they crack down upon to pass law school? Where'd he get his license from? The back of a cerial box? O_O


I don't think we can do much. Thompson has money and power as a lobbyists, and any congressman or senator would we stupid to vote against a bill to stop bad video games. Most people don't want bad video games, so obviously, somebody speaking out against them will be able to gain power among the people of this nation.

This is just a guess, but perhaps people can lock arms and have the ACLU represent us in legal and congressional attempts to have Thomson's witch hunt thwarted.


Good luck, I hope EA makes you look like a total dumbass

If EA challenges him, the company may earn back some of my respect. It'll be the first time I'll have something positive to say about EA in a long time.

[Humanoid]

As I said, it only requires a SNES cart:

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47413&highlight=noahs+ark

Said in that thread by fishsandwich:

"Hey, thanks! You're right... I tried it with Mortal Kombat and it worked just fine. Won't work at all without a game. "

[fpstream]

This whole thing is absurd, parents looking for excuses because they're bad parents. Anyone above the age of 12 have seen some kind of nudity, be it in movies, magazines, or the internet. So unless my tech savvy nine year old does the hack, what's the big deal. It's just irritating.

[fpstream]

So if we don't like this video game witch hunt, what can *we* do to stop it?

I don't think we can do much. Thompson has money and power as a lobbyists, and any congressman or senator would we stupid to vote against a bill to stop bad video games. Most people don't want bad video games, so obviously, somebody speaking out against them will be able to gain power among the people of this nation.

The only thing, I think, that we can do is to show how illogical this is. When I was 10 years old, I read Rising Sun by Michael Crighton. I think there were about 300 f words and a rape was talked about. This would definitely be rated R or M, but I was 10 and read it. This is where we come in. If video games should be rateed more harshly because of "bad" things, then we can also say that books and tv and movies even more should be rated more harshly. It is illogical to try to rate and keep away from people everything bad from happening, because it is against our first ammendment rights. I don't think we can come across too bold though, so I think we need an intelligent way to stop them, and to try to show that video games are our friends, not our foes.

You'd be amazed what the power of the internet can do. Some people claimed it changed the results of the election. The bloggers made the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth what they are, nowadays you can really make ground through internet.

[evildead2099]

So if we don't like this video game witch hunt, what can *we* do to stop it?

I don't think we can do much. Thompson has money and power as a lobbyists, and any congressman or senator would we stupid to vote against a bill to stop bad video games. Most people don't want bad video games, so obviously, somebody speaking out against them will be able to gain power among the people of this nation.

The only thing, I think, that we can do is to show how illogical this is. When I was 10 years old, I read Rising Sun by Michael Crighton. I think there were about 300 f words and a rape was talked about. This would definitely be rated R or M, but I was 10 and read it. This is where we come in. If video games should be rateed more harshly because of "bad" things, then we can also say that books and tv and movies even more should be rated more harshly. It is illogical to try to rate and keep away from people everything bad from happening, because it is against our first ammendment rights. I don't think we can come across too bold though, so I think we need an intelligent way to stop them, and to try to show that video games are our friends, not our foes.

You'd be amazed what the power of the internet can do. Some people claimed it changed the results of the election. The bloggers made the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth what they are, nowadays you can really make ground through internet.

The apparent ineffectiveness of online petitions has me suspect otherwise

[stevec1636]

Wow, this guy is out of his fucking mind. what an asshole. I guess he dosn't relize that when this crap happends all it does is drive up sales for the game. Since GTA went down a few days ago we have been selling it like crazy at my EB. more and more people want it and if this crap about the sims makes it to the papers like GTA did sales will do the same.

[diskoboy]

FUCK Jack Thompson's of the world
FUCK Parents Groups
FUCK The idiots who can't realise just how stupid they sound.

A hefty "Amen!" to that!

[GameSlaveGaz]

Quite frankly, I don't see a problem here. It's about time game developers become accountable to the consumer public. They are reaping the economic benefit of their products, while at the same time not properly labeling the content upon the agreed upon ratings system. I think game developers have a duty to truthfully disclose the content of their product pursuant to the agreed upon ratings system. This allows the consumer to make an educated decision as to whether the product is suitable for either themselves or their families, especially minor children.

If the the game developers want to mass market their product to all levels of the consumer market, then they shouldn't place such content in their products. On the other hand, there is nothing preventing them from selling the product "as is", as long as they truthfully disclose the content. It's no different than cigarettes, alcohol, NC-17 movies or adult magazines. Nothing's preventing the producers of any of those products from manufacturering and selling their goods. They simply can't sell their items to minors.

Am I missing something here? Why is this a big deal to some of you (other than the fact you may be 17 years old or younger). This is not censorship. Nothing is stoping any of these developers from selling their product "as is." They simply have to disclose its content or otherwise make the product conform to the agreed upon ratings system if they want to sell to the target audience. They can't have their cake and eat it too.

First of all, before you post, you should know what you're talking about. Video game developers DO properly label the content of their products. It's called the ESRB Ratings and Content Descriptors, which say in bold black text on the back of every video game for sale what is in the game and what age the game is recommended for. It is not the developer's fault at all what the consumer purchases, because it is up to them to read the information provided by the developers and the ESRB and to make their own rational decision whether to purchase or not. It is also not the fault of developers if a child goes out and copies what they see in video games for this is not the intention of the developers. This is caused by overactive imaginations, poor judgement, and poor parenting. Any child in trouble for playing and/or mimicking a mature-rated game is the fault of the parent because the parent decided to purchase said game for the child, since NO RETAIL STORE IN AMERICA will sell a Mature-rated title to ANYONE UNDER THE AGE OF 17.

As for the sexual content in GTA SA, this stuff was not openly available in the game. This is content that could only be unlocked if you used an Action Replay. Rockstar did not fully intend average consumers to access this information. You have to go very out of your way to actually access this sexual content. The ESRB made the decision to only grade video games on the content they could readily access while playing the game normally, and they've been doing this ever since the ESRB was founded. Any unlockable content should not be up for question in the rating process.

And this most certainly is censorship. Since no retailer will carry an Adults Only rated game, that means that the government has told us what we can and cannot buy, therefore taking away our free will, which is the worst kind of censorship you can impress on a human being.

In my personal opinion, I don't think you deserve to be on this website. You're siding with "The Man" and not fighting for your freedom of choice. I'm not saying you shouldn't believe what you want to believe, I'm just saying that this isn't the area for those kind of beliefs. You should be in the comforts of others who think like you, and not among people who adamantly disagree.

But again, before you post next time about such an important topic, think before you say something, make sure what you say has truth to back it up, cuz you just made yourself sound like an idiot.

[Gamereviewgod]

NO RETAIL STORE IN AMERICA will sell a Mature-rated title to ANYONE UNDER THE AGE OF 17.

Happens all the time, hence all those "undercover" stories you see on the local news.

[GameSlaveGaz]

Oh, of course there will be employees that breach their company's Mature-Ratings policy anywhere at anytime, but that doesn't mean that the store he/she works for doesn't enfore the policy of not selling M games to minors. It just so happens that some people get away with doing it. However, if they do get caught, they're usually fired on the spot.

Also, privately own stores that sell new/used games may or may not enforce this policy either.

My point however, was that the majority of video-game selling stores have policies against selling M games to under 17, so the chances of a minor buying an M game, although not impossible, is very slim and that it is not the fault of the game's developer if a child gets his/her hands on a Mature-rated game.

[Griking]

FUCK Jack Thompson's of the world
FUCK Parents Groups
FUCK The idiots who can't realise just how stupid they sound.

A hefty "Amen!" to that!


You know, people like Jack Thompson would have us believe that children learn to use language like that from movies, videogames and other things they need to be shielded from. I'm not necessarily agreeing with him but it only gives him more ammunition when people who disagree with his opinions use language like that to get their points across.

[Griking]

My point however, was that the majority of video-game selling stores have policies against selling M games to under 17, so the chances of a minor buying an M game, although not impossible, is very slim and that it is not the fault of the game's developer if a child gets his/her hands on a Mature-rated game.

Its one thing to have a policy. It another thing altogether to enforce a policy. The problem is that most game stores just don't enforce the policy of not selling mature games to children. Sure if you ask a store manager if they enforce them they'll give you lip service and tell you that they do, but hang around in most EBWorld or Gamestops for a while and you'll see that it just isnt the case. Sure, from time to time you may see an employee ask a kid for id before selling him a copy of GTA. Sometimes. But did you know that Halo 2 was a 'M' rated game as well? I've NEVER seen a child carded before they were sold a copy of Halo. The same goes for the Resident Evil and MEtal Gear games. The policy is supposed to be enforced for ALL games, not just a select few. Perhaps GTA is being unfairly made an example but it wasn't just to pick on Rockstar it was because there was a problem and GTA was just the final straw.

This problem is compounded by the fact that there's no penalty for stores that don't enforce these policies and children continue to easily purchase games that they aren't supposed to be able to purchase. This is why the government is now stepping in.