What makes a great SHMUP?

[davepesc]

I'm anxiously awaiting my first game of Silhouette Mirage (PS1, I know it's not supposed to be as good) and I was wondering about SHMUPS.

It seems that most are basically puzzle games in disguise. I'm a big R-Type fan, but enemies always come in the same patterns, meaning the game is more about memorization than reflexes and technique (but don't tell me that when there are bullets coming at me from 20 directions).

Are there more randomized shooters and what are some of your faves, regardless of "Type" LOL

[tuxedojoe]

Many times, if you play any shmup on the hardest difficulty setting, it becomes more of a dodging game than a shooting game (Giga Wing 2 on the Dreamcast comes to mind). But for the most part, I feel like your statement holds true: shmups are fast-paced psuedo-puzzle games with a bit of violence and action.

EDIT:

I just realized that I didn't answer the main question in the topic of this thread. That said, the following things make a shmup great:

-A fast but reasonable pace
-Great Soundtrack (to get you into playing the game)
-Easy-to-master controls
-Enemies that move in unpredictable patterns

Oh yeah, and it has to be really really CUTE!!!

Twinbee is my favorite shmup

[tuxedojoe]

Many times, if you play any shump on the hardest difficulty setting, it becomes more of a dodging game than a shooting game (Giga Wing 2 on the Dreamcast comes to mind). But for the most part, I feel like your statement holds true: shmups are fast-paced psuedo-puzzle games with a bit of violence and action.

EDIT: I wanted to edit my first post, but instead made double post. YA! 1 PNW55 +3|-| 1NT4RW3B5!!!!!

[Slimedog]

A good Shump gets you in the zone. Your concious mind drifts away and the signals go straight from your eyes to your fingers. Conversely, another good indication of a great Shump is when it forces you to think on more than just a twitch level. Games that reward you for flying into peril, rather than playing it safely or Ikaruga's use of two colored bullets are a great example.

BTW, I wouldn't consider Silhouette Mirage a Shump. Its pretty much a straight up 2D platform shooter.

[evil_genius]

I'm sorry but what is a shmup?

[tuxedojoe]

I'm sorry but what is a shmup?

A shoot-'em-up game... One that involves a whole bunch o' shootin'.

[suppafly]

This ia a great thread

Requirements of a GREAT schmup (in no particular order)

1) Huge mean bosses
2) Lots of cool weapons
3) A rocking soundtrack
4) Having space levels and some lava levels too

Thats about it. BTW my favorite shooter ever is Thunderforce 4 (Lightening force) for sega genesis!

Thanks!

[Pedro Lambrini]

I'm sorry but what is a shmup?

A SHMUP usually consists of a vertical scrolling or horizontal scrolling play-field with the main character 'flying' towards waves of enemies on predetermined flight patterns. Games such as R-Type, Gradius, Xenon and Radiant Silvergun are examples of SHMUPS. :)

[davepesc]

BTW, I wouldn't consider Silhouette Mirage a Shump. Its pretty much a straight up 2D platform shooter.

Heh
Shows you what I know LOL

I heard Treasure and Working Designs and the color system and thought Ikaruga.

Anyway, I'm sure this will be a blast (pun intended).

As for what I look for in a shooter, I think I like the HUGE bosses, like the standard space battleship in every R-Type game. I also like weapons to be changable mid-level. I think that's why I haven't been able to really get into any of the Silpheeds, having to decide on a weapon loadout pre mission and stick with it may be realistic, but I prefer a reality where the blue gems give you reflective lasers.

[CrimsonNugget]

I like dodging stuff, good tunes to match the action (Ikaruga <3), and lots and lots of pretty colors in my SHMUPS.

[Raedon]

Particles.. and 3 super bombs with cool explosions. At least one Mech style space boss.. ummm... Weapons that can power up 20 times and humorous sound clips for power pickups!!!!

Dangun Feveron (arcade) is one of my fav's.

GET IT MORE!

http://www.digitalmonkeybox.com/dangan_feveron.htm
http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=D&game_id=7511

[chrisbid]

this should be a given, but NO SLOWDOWN!!!

this is painful on NES and SNES shmups :angry:

[Hiryu]

My top qualifications are:

1)Atmospheric soundtrack with the switch to high energy at Boss time.
2)Big bosses
3)Interesting backgrounds
4)Weapon system that has variety without the one lame weapon that seems useless.
5)Ability to power up to an insane level. ;)

[evil_genius]

Is Metal Slug a shmup?

[Slimedog]

Is Metal Slug a shmup?

Nope. Its another 2D platform shooter. The forced scroll seems to be a requirement of a shmup. I wouldn't consider Defender a shmup because you can change direction at will, but I'm positive somebody here would disagree with that.

[Sam]

Everyones forgotten a biggy - responcive and accurate controls are essential.

[jdc]

As someone who doesn't spend a lot of time with shmups but enjoys them once in a while, I like the ones that have a smooth difficulty ramp-up. Nothing like getting smoked on level 3 and not being able to continue.

I've played a few that have endless continues, which is a welcome feature for casual players.

Gotta have massive amounts of particle effects. A metal soundtrack. Super bright colors. Lots of different things to shoot.

Gigawing is the one that I like the most. I wish that Panzer Dragoon Orta had of been easier. I would have loved to have been able to finish that beautiful game.

[Dji]

I'm not a big shmup fan, but to me the single most important thing is the possibility, if one's talented enough, to finish the game without dying even once. A game in which cheap deaths are inevitable is heavily flawed. A great shmup also needs a high level of difficulty, to make it more rewarding once you overcome it (and possibly finish it flawlessly, see above). I also hate it when you restart at the beginning of a level when you die. That's why R-Type Leo and Strikers 1945 III are my favorite shmups: difficult but not cheap/impossible, and when you lose a life you restart right where you are. Other nice things are: lots of different upgrades/power-ups, diverse enemies, memorable bosses, satisfying weapons and incredible explosions.

[UnInformer]

There are no "requirements" for a great shooter, no list of things that they must have. But these things help, IMO:

-Kickass boss design (size is not an issue)
-Cool backgrounds
-A unique twist (like the black/white bullets in Ikaruga or using enemy abilities in Gaiares) that is actually USEFUL!
-Good pacing
-NOT restarting a level when you die (prefer to start out again where I died).

But there are shooters that meet few of the stated criteria that I would consider great shooters regardless. River Raid comes to mind.

[UnInformer]

Stupid slow computer, thought I didn't hit the button. My bad.

[Nirvana]

Right when I clicked on this thread, I immediately thought of Gradius III. The problem with that game is it's damn slow down. It's got way too much of it when you start getting maximum power ups, and you're facing the bubbles. Also, a good SHMUP needs great music, like Gradius III does. And nothing too complicated for powerups.

[djbeatmongrel]

what makes a great shmup? when simply playing it to beat it isnt enough, when you start playing it for the sake of mastery.

[FurinkanianFrood]

It's the zone thing, which has to come from intense shooting, dodging, or both.

Personally, I think Treasure is a great developer of shooter platfomers/platfomers, but RS and Ikaruga are pretty damn weak shmups IMO.

The puzzle element basically destroys the whole zone thing for me, and graphics don't save a slow, contrived shmup like RS.

The only successful merging of puzzle and shmup IMO is Twinkle Star Sprites, but that one is more puzzle than shmup.

It is however one of the best puzzle games ever IMO, up there with Magical Drop 3 and the better iterations of Puyo Puyo and Panel de pon.

I actually have no problem with slow horizontal shooters if they require intense dodging and don't try to overcomplicate things though. R-Type and Salamander are really good slow shmups.

Cave, Raizing, Toaplan and Taito (though after the first Layer Section that series became complete garbage) all made some truly great shmups IMO.

I would say the pinnacle of zone shmups for me is Battle Garegga.


Gradius III

It wasn't exactly great before the slowdown though..... I'd much rather play Salamander or Gradius 2 personally, both are much better, as are most of the Parodius games for that matter.

[TurboGenesis]

I don't know what makes them great but I just like them. They are great for a quick fix of gaming or when you want to take time to master the game. Plus many shooters can be mastered by beating it, playing to maximize score, or going for the 1cc.

Shooters are my favorite genere. I don't know but I really havent played a bad shooter. I like them all I don't discriminate. Yeah some better than others but all good to me.

[bargora]

Right when I clicked on this thread, I immediately thought of Gradius III. The problem with that game is it's damn slow down. It's got way too much of it when you start getting maximum power ups, and you're facing the bubbles. Also, a good SHMUP needs great music, like Gradius III does. And nothing too complicated for powerups.
Try Gradius III on the Gradius III and IV disc for PS2. You can actually set the amount of slowdown you want, since the PS2 is capable of running the game faster than it ran on the original arcade board.

Anyway, all that slowdown on the NES version? Gone. (Or at least, the vast majority is.)