Paypal woes ...

[Vroomfunkel]

I have a slight problem ..

I sold a PS2 a while back, and the buyer paid with Paypal - but claims it never arrived. It was posted, fully insured, with Royal Mail standard parcels.

I submitted a claim to them for the item, which they are processing - but in the meantime the buyer has claimed their money back through Paypal. There was no money in my account, so they have given me a negative balance and suspended the account.

The problem is, Royal Mail tell me that the only thing that they are waiting for is for the buyer to sign and return a form affirming that they did not receive the item - which they have not yet done. Nor is the buyer responding to my emails any more.

And despite having all the evidence for this, including all the claims forms, copies of the receipt, insurance details, and a Royal Mail claim reference - Paypal are insisting that they will find in favour of the buyer, because it isn't trackable online (as if anyone would pay Datapost for a PS2?!)

Any suggestions anyone?

And what happens if they "find in favour of the buyer"? Can they take money directly from my bank account? Should I sever the links with my bank account now?

Vroomfunkel

[Vroomfunkel]

I have a slight problem ..

I sold a PS2 a while back, and the buyer paid with Paypal - but claims it never arrived. It was posted, fully insured, with Royal Mail standard parcels.

I submitted a claim to them for the item, which they are processing - but in the meantime the buyer has claimed their money back through Paypal. There was no money in my account, so they have given me a negative balance and suspended the account.

The problem is, Royal Mail tell me that the only thing that they are waiting for is for the buyer to sign and return a form affirming that they did not receive the item - which they have not yet done. Nor is the buyer responding to my emails any more.

And despite having all the evidence for this, including all the claims forms, copies of the receipt, insurance details, and a Royal Mail claim reference - Paypal are insisting that they will find in favour of the buyer, because it isn't trackable online (as if anyone would pay Datapost for a PS2?!)

Any suggestions anyone?

And what happens if they "find in favour of the buyer"? Can they take money directly from my bank account? Should I sever the links with my bank account now?

Vroomfunkel

[scooby105]

Should I sever the links with my bank account now?

you should never hook paypal to a bank account anyways

also, you NEED to provide tracking for EVERYTHING shipped via paypal. if its over a certain amount, you need signature confirmation as well. paypal tells you this in their rules. don't EVER send anything without tracking.

[scooby105]

Should I sever the links with my bank account now?

you should never hook paypal to a bank account anyways

also, you NEED to provide tracking for EVERYTHING shipped via paypal. if its over a certain amount, you need signature confirmation as well. paypal tells you this in their rules. don't EVER send anything without tracking.

[Vroomfunkel]

The only service that provides *ONLINE* tracking for a package of that size is outrageously expensive, and no buyer would ever pay it.

There is absolutely no point in having Paypal as a seller if it is not hooked to a bank account, because otherwise you can't take out any money that you receive.

The fact is that the package was fully insured, and there is complete proof of this. There is easily verifiable evidence that the insurance claim has been lodged - Royal Mail provide a complaint reference number, I have letters from them, etc.

The buyer claims they have not received the package - but apparently is not willing to sign their name to that fact.

That is the situation, and that is what I am asking advice about - there's no point trying to tell me what you think I should have done beforehand, that is of no use at all except possibly to make you feel superior. Is that what you're after?

Vroomfunkel

[Vroomfunkel]

The only service that provides *ONLINE* tracking for a package of that size is outrageously expensive, and no buyer would ever pay it.

There is absolutely no point in having Paypal as a seller if it is not hooked to a bank account, because otherwise you can't take out any money that you receive.

The fact is that the package was fully insured, and there is complete proof of this. There is easily verifiable evidence that the insurance claim has been lodged - Royal Mail provide a complaint reference number, I have letters from them, etc.

The buyer claims they have not received the package - but apparently is not willing to sign their name to that fact.

That is the situation, and that is what I am asking advice about - there's no point trying to tell me what you think I should have done beforehand, that is of no use at all except possibly to make you feel superior. Is that what you're after?

Vroomfunkel

[Kitsune Sniper]

Can't you contact any law enforcement officers at wherever the package was sent? They should be able to help out.

Oh, and you -can- get money out of Paypal without a bank account. It just takes at least three weeks (in the US) for them to mail you a check.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Can't you contact any law enforcement officers at wherever the package was sent? They should be able to help out.

Oh, and you -can- get money out of Paypal without a bank account. It just takes at least three weeks (in the US) for them to mail you a check.

[jajaja]

When you put insurance on a package you do get some sort of tracking number. I would e-mail paypal support about it and explained the situation. Then take if from there.
Have you tried to call the buyer btw?

[jajaja]

When you put insurance on a package you do get some sort of tracking number. I would e-mail paypal support about it and explained the situation. Then take if from there.
Have you tried to call the buyer btw?

[Darren870]

That really sucks, paypal customer service is deffinitly lacking in points and they really need to address the rules. Paypal can't take any money out of your account dont worry about that. Id just sit it out, I think paypal will rule in your favor, was it a confirmed address?

[Darren870]

That really sucks, paypal customer service is deffinitly lacking in points and they really need to address the rules. Paypal can't take any money out of your account dont worry about that. Id just sit it out, I think paypal will rule in your favor, was it a confirmed address?

[Griking]

I have a slight problem ..

I sold a PS2 a while back, and the buyer paid with Paypal - but claims it never arrived. It was posted, fully insured, with Royal Mail standard parcels.

I submitted a claim to them for the item, which they are processing - but in the meantime the buyer has claimed their money back through Paypal. There was no money in my account, so they have given me a negative balance and suspended the account.

The problem is, Royal Mail tell me that the only thing that they are waiting for is for the buyer to sign and return a form affirming that they did not receive the item - which they have not yet done. Nor is the buyer responding to my emails any more.

And despite having all the evidence for this, including all the claims forms, copies of the receipt, insurance details, and a Royal Mail claim reference - Paypal are insisting that they will find in favour of the buyer, because it isn't trackable online (as if anyone would pay Datapost for a PS2?!)

Any suggestions anyone?

And what happens if they "find in favour of the buyer"? Can they take money directly from my bank account? Should I sever the links with my bank account now?

Vroomfunkel

I doubt there's anything you can do except get over it. PayPal has a history of doing this. Seriously, if yoiu're a dishonest person you can have anything you want for free. all you have to do is keep purchasing things, pay with PayPal and claim you never get them. As long as the seller doesn't have delivery confirmation you'll get your money back almost every time. This is why I push BidPay in my auctions.


Paypal can't take any money out of your account dont worry about that.

Excuse me? They most certainly can and will. If you're saying this only because he has no money in the account then your technically right but he's still screwed. Now he has a PayPal account in the red. He'll loose anymoney deposited to in in the future untill the palance is paid. If he just says fuck'em then PayPal will eventually report you to a collection agency and fuck your credit rating up which is usually worse than losing the money in the first place.

[Griking]

I have a slight problem ..

I sold a PS2 a while back, and the buyer paid with Paypal - but claims it never arrived. It was posted, fully insured, with Royal Mail standard parcels.

I submitted a claim to them for the item, which they are processing - but in the meantime the buyer has claimed their money back through Paypal. There was no money in my account, so they have given me a negative balance and suspended the account.

The problem is, Royal Mail tell me that the only thing that they are waiting for is for the buyer to sign and return a form affirming that they did not receive the item - which they have not yet done. Nor is the buyer responding to my emails any more.

And despite having all the evidence for this, including all the claims forms, copies of the receipt, insurance details, and a Royal Mail claim reference - Paypal are insisting that they will find in favour of the buyer, because it isn't trackable online (as if anyone would pay Datapost for a PS2?!)

Any suggestions anyone?

And what happens if they "find in favour of the buyer"? Can they take money directly from my bank account? Should I sever the links with my bank account now?

Vroomfunkel

I doubt there's anything you can do except get over it. PayPal has a history of doing this. Seriously, if yoiu're a dishonest person you can have anything you want for free. all you have to do is keep purchasing things, pay with PayPal and claim you never get them. As long as the seller doesn't have delivery confirmation you'll get your money back almost every time. This is why I push BidPay in my auctions.


Paypal can't take any money out of your account dont worry about that.

Excuse me? They most certainly can and will. If you're saying this only because he has no money in the account then your technically right but he's still screwed. Now he has a PayPal account in the red. He'll loose anymoney deposited to in in the future untill the palance is paid. If he just says fuck'em then PayPal will eventually report you to a collection agency and fuck your credit rating up which is usually worse than losing the money in the first place.

[Vroomfunkel]

Can't you contact any law enforcement officers at wherever the package was sent? They should be able to help out.

Oh, and you -can- get money out of Paypal without a bank account. It just takes at least three weeks (in the US) for them to mail you a check.

<----------- Not in the US.

I am pretty sure Paypal don't send out cheques in the UK. I've never seen that option anywhere, at least.

As for law enforcement ... well, we shall see. If actually lose any money then I will look into that.

In the meantime, I had a quick Google check on the address where I sent the item, which was a business address - and it does exist at least. So if any money is taken from me, I will pursue three routes:

1) Contact the company in question and make a written complaint about their employee.
2) Contact the local police force and ask them to investigate
3) File a claim in the UK Small Claims Court.

Hopefully it won't come to that - but I would like to think that if it did, having all that lot land on their doorstep at once might prompt them to sort things out without my having to go the whole way through with all of them

But if needs be, I would!!! I hate fraudsters ...

Vroomfunkel

[Vroomfunkel]

Can't you contact any law enforcement officers at wherever the package was sent? They should be able to help out.

Oh, and you -can- get money out of Paypal without a bank account. It just takes at least three weeks (in the US) for them to mail you a check.

<----------- Not in the US.

I am pretty sure Paypal don't send out cheques in the UK. I've never seen that option anywhere, at least.

As for law enforcement ... well, we shall see. If actually lose any money then I will look into that.

In the meantime, I had a quick Google check on the address where I sent the item, which was a business address - and it does exist at least. So if any money is taken from me, I will pursue three routes:

1) Contact the company in question and make a written complaint about their employee.
2) Contact the local police force and ask them to investigate
3) File a claim in the UK Small Claims Court.

Hopefully it won't come to that - but I would like to think that if it did, having all that lot land on their doorstep at once might prompt them to sort things out without my having to go the whole way through with all of them

But if needs be, I would!!! I hate fraudsters ...

Vroomfunkel

[jajaja]

Ye.. really boring when stuff like this happeds.
Please post updates.
Hope all works out ok :)

[jajaja]

Ye.. really boring when stuff like this happeds.
Please post updates.
Hope all works out ok :)

[SoulBlazer]

I don't understand something -- how does tracking work in the UK? In the US, if you buy Delivery Confirmation, you CAN track the status of that online.

[SoulBlazer]

I don't understand something -- how does tracking work in the UK? In the US, if you buy Delivery Confirmation, you CAN track the status of that online.

[Darren870]

Excuse me? They most certainly can and will. If you're saying this only because he has no money in the account then your technically right but he's still screwed. Now he has a PayPal account in the red. He'll loose anymoney deposited to in in the future untill the palance is paid. If he just says fuck'em then PayPal will eventually report you to a collection agency and fuck your credit rating up which is usually worse than losing the money in the first place.

I ment out of your bank account since its linked...

[Darren870]

Excuse me? They most certainly can and will. If you're saying this only because he has no money in the account then your technically right but he's still screwed. Now he has a PayPal account in the red. He'll loose anymoney deposited to in in the future untill the palance is paid. If he just says fuck'em then PayPal will eventually report you to a collection agency and fuck your credit rating up which is usually worse than losing the money in the first place.

I ment out of your bank account since its linked...

[scooby105]

its not about superiority.
its about stupidity.

you didn't follow the rules and guidelines paypal set up for sellers, yet you expect them to side with you. that is stupidity on your part. if they require online tracking, which they do, then you make buyers pay for it or you deal with the outcome. get tracking for every package regardless of what it costs if you accept paypal. just make the buyer pay for it. if you don't , you deserve to get screwed for not being able to read paypals rules.

the only thing you as a seller can do is to unhook your bank account from paypal so they can't take your money out of your bank account and hope that the issue gets resolved.

[Vroomfunkel]

its not about superiority.
its about stupidity.

And calling me stupid isn't about your superiority in what way exactly?


if they require online tracking, which they do, then you make buyers pay for it or you deal with the outcome.

Actually, no. I am not asking for a debate about what Paypal's rules are - I know full well. And they are mind-numbingly stupid rules, because what does online tracking give you that FULL INSURANCE doesn't??

The fact is that the only postage service with online tracking to Ireland for a package that size would be outrageously expensive, and nobody would pay it.

And, for your information, I am dealing with the outcome - what does this look like I am doing? Frankly, if you've got nothing better to contribute than to tell me that I'm stupid, why not just stay out of the discussion and let me take advice from people who have something helpful to say?

Vroomfunkel

[thegreatescape]

if they require online tracking, which they do, then you make buyers pay for it or you deal with the outcome.

Commit commercial suicide by forcing outrageous postage fees on customers, or lose money because assholes decide they would rather not pay for items. Tough choice x_x

The 3 routes you mentioned sound like a good plan vroomfunkel. Maybe a call from a (really cheap or really fake) lawyer might give them the hint as well (even if they just ask if they (the deadbeat) have a lawyer, that would be fairly intimidating and send the message that your serious).

[mills]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, FUCK PAYPAL! This can happen very easily, in fact YOU can scam people just as easily, get a free PS2 and your money back. Paypal sucks, very insecure. Also they can steal your money and freeze your account for any reason they see fit, please listen to me adn don't do business with paypal because what happened to him can happen to you!


Vroomfunkel said:

I have a slight problem ..

I sold a PS2 a while back, and the buyer paid with Paypal - but claims it never arrived. It was posted, fully insured, with Royal Mail standard parcels.

I submitted a claim to them for the item, which they are processing - but in the meantime the buyer has claimed their money back through Paypal. There was no money in my account, so they have given me a negative balance and suspended the account.

The problem is, Royal Mail tell me that the only thing that they are waiting for is for the buyer to sign and return a form affirming that they did not receive the item - which they have not yet done. Nor is the buyer responding to my emails any more.

And despite having all the evidence for this, including all the claims forms, copies of the receipt, insurance details, and a Royal Mail claim reference - Paypal are insisting that they will find in favour of the buyer, because it isn't trackable online (as if anyone would pay Datapost for a PS2?!)

Any suggestions anyone?



And what happens if they "find in favour of the buyer"? Can they take money directly from my bank account? Should I sever the links with my bank account now?

Vroomfunkel



I doubt there's anything you can do except get over it. PayPal has a history of doing this. Seriously, if yoiu're a dishonest person you can have anything you want for free. all you have to do is keep purchasing things, pay with PayPal and claim you never get them. As long as the seller doesn't have delivery confirmation you'll get your money back almost every time. This is why I push BidPay in my auctions.


Vroomfunkel said:

Paypal can't take any money out of your account dont worry about that.



Excuse me? They most certainly can and will. If you're saying this only because he has no money in the account then your technically right but he's still screwed. Now he has a PayPal account in the red. He'll loose anymoney deposited to in in the future untill the palance is paid. If he just says fuck'em then PayPal will eventually report you to a collection agency and fuck your credit rating up which is usually worse than losing the money in the first place.


EXACTLY!!

[chaoticjelly]

its not about superiority.
its about stupidity.

you didn't follow the rules and guidelines paypal set up for sellers, yet you expect them to side with you. that is stupidity on your part. if they require online tracking, which they do, then you make buyers pay for it or you deal with the outcome. get tracking for every package regardless of what it costs if you accept paypal. just make the buyer pay for it. if you don't , you deserve to get screwed for not being able to read paypals rules.

This guy is a gnat, dont pay any attention to him vroom!

I'll let you know my experiences with Paypal.. not good ones mind you, dont know if this will help you much..

Ive been a victim of what I will deem the "Paypal Chargeback Syndrome" before.. twice in fact.

The first time I was subjected to this, most grevious of Paypal crimes.. was when I sold a Sega Megadrive Control Pad to a woman in the USA.

The woman was clearly a bit short up top.. she could of bought a pad in the states, and it would of cost her a lot less, than having my pad, which was listed on ebay UK in GBP (which was a lot when you convert it into dollars).

She paid quite quickly, I sent the pad the day after she paid. After just over a week I got her emailing me asking where her pad was, and that she checked her bank account and "id taken more money than the item was in the auction" - well, of course I explained that the item was listed in ENGLISH POUNDS, and that paypal take the money out of her US bank account in US dollars.. she totally ignored me and proceeded to call me a "FRAUDSTER" she claimed the item never arrived (I believe she said this because she thought I had "frauded" her)

Anyway I got a paypal complaint.. i telephoned paypal and spoke to them about it, saying that id sent the item off. They said that items have to be fully online trackable - or else I cant prove it had been sent. I said "but I have a certificate of posting, which is stamped by the post office, and proves that I sent this item"

Nope. They dont accept it. The reason purely being that I dont think they want to have to employ more people / spend time verifying and looking at faxed/posted/etc documents that prove you've sent something.. they are an online company and they want an "online trackable number" that they can just put into a search engine.. not only that but "fully online trackable from posting to destination" in other words, you cant send NORMAL trackable.. you have to send the most EXPENSIVE trackable that there is.. UK mainland this would be SPECIAL DELIVERY (i dont think recorded suffices..?) and abroad it would be airsure (international signed for does not suffice - contrary to what it is advertised as, its only tracked until it "leaves the country" in other words not until it reaches its destination which is what paypal requires)

It is RIDICULOUS for paypal to deem an item only to of been sent if you send it by this method. Contrary to the MORON who posted to flame this thread (get a life !!) its the biggest scam in history. If you buy a rolex watch off ebay and they sent it regular post (unlikely but possible) you can simply file a claim it never arrived and get your money back.

Of course I got a chargeback for the pad I spoke about above. Paypal said that if the pad arrived, the woman may drop the claim. I said, but she doesnt even know where the UK is, what GBP is, - if the item does arrive whats to stop her from not dropping the claim and just getting the money anyway? "Nothing" the paypal guy said! Everytime I ring up I mention it...

I sold an Amiga to a guy on ebay, he claimed that it wasnt working when he got it, and due to a technicality he managed to paypal claim, returned it (he had swapped the internals with that of another machine) it wasnt working, had keys broken off, had a cracked case, and was packaged terribly - paypal gave him the money back.

I had to take the Amiga to a local shop (Cash Generator) where I am a big customer, and the owner kindly agreed to make a report of what was wrong with the machine, and he even faxed it to paypal for me! only after doing this I managed to get my money back! previous to that paypal had told me to get in contact with my "local law enforcement agency"

I think they just say this because they dont think youll actually do it.. well we did contact the police, and of course THEY DIDNT GIVE A DAMN!

I told Paypal that. I told them that the police in the UK dont deal with matters like that, and thats when they told me to get a report of the damage to the system from an impartial source, which I managed to get as above...

In short.. I dont think there is much you can do vroom.. have you tried hassling the buyer more? Tried telephoning them? Id definitly go upon that avenue..

As for them having to sign a form saying it was lost.. ive never heard of that one before! Have you tried ringing up royal mail and hassling them about it? Thats what id do. I know that when I sent stuff first class post and it goes missing, i fill the claim form in, and send it off, after a couple of weeks if I hear nothing I have to ring them up and hassle them about it, otherwise they sit on the form and do nothing.

Tell them that you paid for the insurance, etc, and that the item has gone missing, when you bought the insurance it was not clear that the receiver would have to sign something etc if it went missing and just let them know how generally pissed off you are, if you get no joy you could try writing to postwatch? (i think its called that) - they help regulate the postal service.. may be of help??

I think also, that they CAN take money out of your bank account.. and if it doesnt get paid.. its going to be hard for you to have a paypal account... :( ive read a lot of horror stories about paypal.. but i have to use it since if I didnt, quite a few people wouldnt buy from me..

To the moron who posted above saying that its all your own fault. NO ITS NOT. I mean seriously, who would send everything by such expensive methods..? I would consider sending anything particuarly expensive by one of the methods paypal require.. but like what happened to me.. a £4 control pad? paying more postage costs than the pad is worth just to protect against a chargeback from a fraudster...? hmmm nah...!

In short theres not much people can do to protect themselves against this kind of fraud.. besides sending everything by expensive methods, and then you wont have anyone buying from you!!

[Vroomfunkel]

As for them having to sign a form saying it was lost.. ive never heard of that one before! Have you tried ringing up royal mail and hassling them about it? Thats what id do. I know that when I sent stuff first class post and it goes missing, i fill the claim form in, and send it off, after a couple of weeks if I hear nothing I have to ring them up and hassle them about it, otherwise they sit on the form and do nothing.

Tell them that you paid for the insurance, etc, and that the item has gone missing, when you bought the insurance it was not clear that the receiver would have to sign something etc if it went missing and just let them know how generally pissed off you are, if you get no joy you could try writing to postwatch? (i think its called that) - they help regulate the postal service.. may be of help??


Oh boy, I haven't even started on the issues I have with the post office at this stage, as it isn't really relevant to the buyer on the whole I have tried to leave it out of the equation, but since you ask :

I filled out all the forms, had to send the receipt along with them - so, feeling slightly paranoid as I did it, I took a photocopy of everything before I sent it (I always feel slightly uneasy that the only way to submit a complaint about an item lost in the post is to place your receipt in the post.

Anyway .. a while later, heard nothing - so I call up the post office. They say it's not on their system yet. I grumble but decided to give it a couple more days. I call again - this time I am told that it is still not on their system, and that they have a backlog so it might take a while. So I tell them what I think of this, and the adviser gives me his name and hiis direct address at Royal Mail and says to send it in to him. They have extra staff coming in at the weekend to process lost item forms, but if mine isn't done by the time he comes back in on Monday morning, he will process it himself.

Feeling grateful that I copied the form, I agree and send another copy off. Monday afternoon, I call back to check - still not there!!! The kind assistant suggests I post it in again, but I point-blank refuse to put anything more in the post to them. Eventually she agrees to take the details over the phone, and gives me a fax number to fax the copy of the receipt to.

I call back later to check that this has been received, and it has (at last!) - but I am told that my claim for £72 is being processed, but that they don't refund the postage on these claims!?!?!? O_O

This sends me somewhat ballistic - and I tell them that they have a bloody cheek if they think that I am going to pay them for a service that they don't manage to provide.

Oh, but this is their policy and they can't do anything about it. So I demand to speak to a manager because I really don't want to give grief to someone who doesn't have the ability to do anything about this. I explain in fairly strong terms to him what I think about this - including the fact that this particular aspect of their service has never been mentioned on any of the many occasions I have used their service, and that a careful inspection of their website reveals no mention of it either. And that I think that any level minded person would assume that if they had paid for a service they had not recieved, they might assume that they were due their money back ...

So this has been added as a "note" on my claim, and they will apparently decide whether or not to do anything about it when they actually get round to processing the claim.

Oh, and no - there was no mention of the recipient having to sign anything in order to process a claim on any of their literature that I could find either. Apparently this is because it is a claim of 'over £30'. Would be nice if these little things got mentioned somewhere on their terms of service ... added to which, I don't recall that ever happening before on any of the claims that I have had to make in the past.

.... I really can't wait till DHL are able to offer a proper competing service to Royal Mail, because I am just about fully fed up with them :hmm:

Vroomfunkel

[kevincure]

Vroomfunkel, you're getting screwed, but don't let up. You have the man's address, right? Look him up and give a fake intimidating call - that might be enough to pressure him.

Out of curiousity, how is the private post delivery over there? We have USPS (our equivalent of Royal Mail) which is best cost for small letters, but also UPS (really quite cheap), FedEx (the fastest) and DHL (new, but I haven't tried them yet). I prefer shipping through one of the private services on anything of value - their service is quite a bit better. There are a number of jokes about "disgrunted postal workers" at the regular USPS :-).

[The_Kodiak65]

you have his address? if I lived anywhere in the UK, I would drive there personally, and kick his/her ass for you!God, I hate hearing people getting screwed......as soon as a scam like this happens....

I hope to hear it all works out for you

[The_Kodiak65]

you have thier address? If I lived in the UK, I would drive to his/her house, and kick their ass for you....

I hope to hear that it all works out for you....

[Diatribal Deity]

It's true you take your chances using paypal, but does the added benefits of accepting it outweigh the risks. In my experience it does as chances are you will in the end receive higher bids on your items as you've presented more options to your buyer plus it can be more convenient etc.

I've only had one negative experience in over 800 transactions and that was for a purchase I made for $150. I was able to get back everything except $25.

Like someone mentioned before there are inherent risks in everything you do, just weigh them against the rewards.

Hope you were/are able to resolve this issue and let us know how it turns out.

[Vroomfunkel]

Well, having heard various unpleasant stories about people being skanked by Paypal in this fashion, I have always made sure to keep my account pretty much empty.

As such I haven't actually lost any money at the moment - the only thing is that my Paypal account is in the negative, because they took out all the money for the PS2 now.

And they won't let me make any payments through it till I clear the balance. Which I will simply refuse to do, until the buyer co-operates with the insurance claim - not an unreasonable request, to my mind.

But she is not replying to my emails now. So tomorrow, I will first:

call the post office to see if they have received anything from her.

If not then I will call her work (which is where the package was delivered) and see if I can speak to her.

If that brings no joy then I will (a) contact the local police for her area (b) write a letter to her employer and (c) get a lawyer friend of mine to draw up a nasty letter, involving the Small Claims Court.

Then we will see where we go from there. In the meantime I am simply using my flatmate's Paypal account to send and receive money :D

Vroomfunkel

[Vroomfunkel]

Update for anyone who cares:

After much hassle, it would appear that the main source of trouble in this would in fact be the Post Office. I have pasted here my letter to the post office which I wrote today, and which includes a full update of the situation ...

Comments and suggestions for inclusions or improvements on this finely honed piece of diatribe before I actually send it would be appreciated!

----------------

Dear Royal Mail,

I am writing to you with regard to the experience that I have recently had in dealing with a claim for a lost package. It is two or three years since I last had to process a claim for a lost package, during which time I have sent many hundreds of packages through Royal Mail and been very satisfied with the service.

However, the experience of dealing with this claim has without a doubt been one of the most frustrating displays or poor customer care that I have ever been through. To begin with, having filled out the original claim form and sent it in with all the relevant details, I did not hear anything back. After about 10 days I called in to enquire, and was that it ‘may have arrived, but hasn’t been put on the system yet’.

My next call, on a Friday two days later, I was told that there was a backlog of claims, and that it still hadn’t been entered – but that there were extra staff coming in over the weekend to clear it. The person I spoke to told me to send a copy of the form to them in person, and if it had not been entered over the weekend, then they would enter it themselves on Monday morning. I posted a copy first class immediately.

I called on Monday afternoon, to be told that there was still nothing entered on the system for my claim, and was asked to send in another copy. By this stage I was not prepared to waste my time in posting anything else in, and requested that the details be taken over the phone – which was eventually done, and I faxed through the receipt and proof of value.

On my next call, to confirm that the fax had been received, I was told that it had but that although my claim for the value of the item (£72) would be processed, the postage would not be refunded, as Standard Parcels insurance does not cover this! This has never been my experience in the past, and furthermore I have never had this mentioned at any stage when purchasing insurance for Standard Parcels. A subsequent inspection of your website also made absolutely no mention of this dubious policy.

I should add at this point that I find this supposed policy to be extremely poor business practice. I cannot think of a single other business that I deal with that would agree to provide a service for a fee, renege on the service, and refuse to refund the fee. Frankly, I am astonished that this is even legal! The level of insurance that I purchased covers values up to £100, so it ought to be able to come under the insurance if nothing else!

If you really struggle to cover costs on this venture if you refund postage in these circumstances, I would venture to suggest a solution that would lose you a lot less favour with customers such as myself. Add 10p to the cost of the insurance, and use this to cover the costs of refunding postage for packages that go missing. Unless you lose more than 1% of all your packages then this should be more than adequate. (If you do lose more than 1% of the packages you deliver, I would suggest that you need to reconsider whether you should be in business at all!)

To continue with the process of dealing with my claim, I received a letter confirming that the claim had been registered and then heard nothing more. I called some time later to determine what the situation was, and was told that the recipient would have to sign and return a form to confirm they had not received the item, and this was the only thing that was now needed.

I contacted the recipient, to discover that they had not received this form, several days after I was told that it had been posted.

I called back again to request that the form be faxed to the recipient instead – bear in mind here that so far nothing that has been sent through the post in relation to this claim has been received by anyone involved, with the exception of a sole letter which told me something that I already knew. Not the original package. Not the forms that I sent in. Not the forms that you have sent out. You can perhaps understand why I am becoming rather dissatisfied with this whole process.

It is agreed that the form will be faxed to the recipient, along with a fax number for them to fax back when she has completed it – and that another form would be sent in the post also, for good measure. The fax was not sent until three days later (at which point neither the first or second forms sent through the post had arrived either) – and with no return number, so I had to call again to obtain a return fax number.

The recipient faxed the form back, and I called in to confirm that it had been received. The person I spoke to was unable to confirm that, but took my mobile number and assured me that someone would contact me to confirm whether or not it had been received.

By this stage, you may not be surprised to hear that I did not receive any such phone call. On a scale of one to ten, my expectation that I would actually get a confirmation call ranked somewhere well into the negatives – so I was not especially surprised, but nevertheless it increased, if possible, my complete lack of confidence in your customer care processes.

Presently I am writing this, having called in again to find out the situation. I was told that the fax was registered as having been received yesterday – although it was sent three days ago. Although I was told that everything necessary had now been received, the person I spoke to was unable to confirm that the claim had been approved, or to give me any means of speaking to someone who might actually be able to tell me.

As I stated at the beginning, I have made claims through Royal Mail in the past – and they were dealt with satisfactorily. I cannot begin to imagine what you have done to your claims department in last couple of years that has resulted in the current shambles, but it must be something pretty ghastly. I take issue with your policy on refunding postage for standard parcels packages that go missing (if it were merely delay, or damage I could possibly understand your position. But this package has been lost – most likely stolen, I would imagine!).

I am bewildered that you offer no means of dealing with a missing item complaint other than via post – which, as you can see from this case – can potentially be highly unsatisfactory! With such a comprehensive website (albeit, one that neglects to give important details of the compensation structures for your main services), you might think that it should be possible to submit claims online, or via email.

I look forward to hearing your response to this. I will be greatly interested to hear what you have to say about the points that I have raised, and what remedies you can suggest. Given the current record with items of mail relating to this case, I also include my email address as you may wish to send a copy of your reply there for safety's sake.

Yours truly,

Joel Lewis

[SoulBlazer]

So the person you sold the system to FINALLY responded to your e-mails and claims she never got it? What was her excuse for being late? At least she's finally helping you with the claim.

Letter sounds good, I'd make copies and send it to several people.

[16-bit]

Good story.

Again, this is why a buyer paying promptly ALONE does not justify a positive feedback. Feedback should be exchanged at the end of the transaction on both ends.

@ChatoticJelly. I've had a number of part swap frauds on ebay too. It sucks and I'm so done with selling fragile systems on eBay--gaming conventions are better.