Microsoft..... YOU BLEW IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anthony1]

Personally, I think it's game over.


Game over for Microsoft.



Damn. And to think that I was kinda rooting for them, just because I would like to see Sony get knocked off their pedestal.



The fact that every single XBOX 360 system WON'T have a hard drive, is a horrible blunder on their part.





This means that down the road, the developers are going to make their games for the LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR.



In other words, we are going to see lots of games that take no advantage whatsover of the hard drive. There are going to be too many 360 owners out there with core systems, and no hard drive, and the developers are going to skew their games to the lowest common denominator.


That is why all add-ons have been unsucessful. Developers make stuff for the bare bones systems, because they know that there are a large number of people out there with the bare bones system, and they don't have the accessory added on.


Look at the PS2 hard drive. I know that it isn't directly comparable, but anytime you don't have something be totally "STANDARD" then you are asking for trouble.



The whole idea of the $299 XBOX 360 is just a joke. It's purely a marketing ploy and nothing more. In fact, they are basically trying to do whatever they can do to get people to avoid buying the core system.


People that buy a core system don't get a HDTV component cable? WTF?

I thought this was the HD era, Microsoft?


WHAT THE F HAPPENED TO THE HD ERA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




You must give Joe Sixpack a HDTV component cable, and you must also give Joe Sixpack a little DVD guide on how to hook up the 360 to his HDTV the proper way to get the full resolution.


JOE SIXPACK IS GOING TO BUY THE DAMN CORE SYSTEM, AND THEY ARE GOING TO RUIN IT FOR EVERYBODY!!!



No built in hard drive for every 360 in existence, means that the developers aren't going to waste precious time, money and resources on taking advantage of the hard drive for game loading speed and other gameplay considerations.



ALL THIS JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO SAY, "Well, you can get a core system for $299, so it is a $299 system".


WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP.





YOU BLEW IT





YOU FREAKING BLEW IT.

[Leo_A]

wow

@_@

[Nesmaster]

:eek 2:

thats like promising someone chocolate cake and giving them a slap to the face instead :smash:

[ozyr]

Cool! I've never been a fan of Microsoft anyway. Let them die.... And it sounds like Sony may do the same thing (two systems, low and high end). Go Nintendo go!!!


(just my opinion - let others speak their mind - but stupid attacks against my 2 cents will go unanswered.)

[Lothars]

Good I hope Microsoft dies in the console war

I myself will be buying a PS3 and the revolution

Long Live Sony, who i hope keep with it and stay in the lead

than I hope Nintendo goes back to second.

[evildead2099]

Long Live Sony, who i hope keep with it and stay in the lead

than I hope Nintendo goes back to second.

You actually want Sony to continue to dominate Nintendo?

Anyway, will the P$3 sell with a hard drive? If not, how is the P$3 not as 'terrible' as the Xbox 360 in that regard?

Wait and see, says I (although, to be honest, I really don't plan to buy any more consoles given what the state of gaming has come to in the twenty first century.

[Sylentwulf]

I think the more expensive option is a joke actually. I tiny hard drive I could pick up for $20 on ebay, a crappy remote noone needs, and ohhhhh a set of a/v cables you can get for $8. All $35 of this stuff can be included FREE for only an additional $100!

Yes, I know you would have to hack the hard drive in there, but so what, anyone honestly think that won't haooen within a week of release?

As far as microsoft blowing it... news flash, they sell like 10 consoles per week in asia. There was nothing TO Blow.

They'll do just fine, as will sony, and nintendo. But I imagine these crap on threads will continues just fine as well. Long live the crap!

[Jumpman Jr.]

As certainly being a downfall to the 360, I don't think that it will ruin Microsoft (or Microsoft gaming or whatever). I think the fast majority of Xbox fans will still buy the 360, with or without the hard-drive.



As far as microsoft blowing it... news flash, they sell like 10 consoles per week in asia. There was nothing TO Blow.

Really? Where did you find that statistic? Thats pretty crazy.

[Diatribal Deity]

You do realize Bill Gates Charitaible organization endowment is now valued close to at or near $30 billion. That's what he has donated towards aids research and other worldly causes.

What am I trying to say? They did not get to be this successful by making bad decisions. We all know by now Microsoft's core customer has to be a Walmart customer in order for the system to be a success and very few of them will be willing to drop more than $300 on a new system. Yes they could continue losing a billion a year or more on hardware losses but do you think their shareholders would agree with this? If you were a major shareholder would you agree to this? Is this some rash decision made by uneducated unsuccessful experts who did not weigh its consequences?

[evildead2099]

[Microsoft] did not get to be this successful by making bad decisions.

Are you talking about Microsoft's history with respect to console gaming, or Microsoft's history in general? Microsoft has made plenty of bad decisions in general, especially with respect to its Windows line of Operating Systems. In that respect, it doesn't matter how 'good' or 'bad' Microsoft's decisions are; the company will continue to be successful so long as it enjoys a monopoly with respect to commercial operating systems.


We all know by now Microsoft's core customer has to be a Walmart customer

I have no idea where you're getting that information from.

[jajaja]

Well.. even if MS doesnt sell 1 single xbox360 console they would still be the biggest company. They would still make tons of cash on all their other products.

I think its ok that they make 2 versions. You can perfeclty fine play the games with the core system to $299. Think this is a great way to do it so ppl who dont have that much money can also afford it, and then later on upgrade if they want.

[jajaja]

[Microsoft] did not get to be this successful by making bad decisions.

Are you talking about Microsoft's history with respect to console gaming, or Microsoft's history in general? Microsoft has made plenty of bad decisions in general, especially with respect to its Windows line of Operating Systems. In that respect, it doesn't matter how 'good' or 'bad' Microsoft's decisions are; the company will continue to be successful so long as it enjoys a monopoly with respect to commercial operating systems.

Microsoft never had monopoly on the OS front. There have always been other OS's to choose from. Hell, UNIX came years before Microsoft started producing something.
Today there is no problem to choose your OS. If you want Windows you can use it, if you want Linux you can use it, if you want OSX you can use it.
So even if Windows is used by most ppl in the world MS never had a true monopoly because there have always been other OS's to choose from.

[Diatribal Deity]

We all know by now Microsoft's core customer has to be a Walmart customer

I have no idea where you're getting that information from.[/quote]

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - More people buy video games at Wal-Mart than any other store in the country.

[SlayerOfFurbies]

silly rabbit... hard drives are for PCs :evil:


personally i think it's a good idea

[Graham Mitchell]

Personally I think having multiple versions of a console is a bad idea, but if MS does pursue the idea of releasing a stripped-down version I'm sure an optional HD won't be far behind (as long as they have the foresight to design it for one).

Probably true. Also remember that when PS1 came out, hardly any of the games actually required the memory card. It was an excess frill at that point in the system's life. GunGriffon VF-9, Doom, and several other PS1 games all still used passwords. By the second year, though, every game was requiring a memory card. So Anthony1, don't worry about it. I'm sure every important game on the stupid thing will end up taking full advantage of the harddrive.

[Hamsnibit]

I think the more expensive option is a joke actually. I tiny hard drive I could pick up for $20 on ebay, a crappy remote noone needs, and ohhhhh a set of a/v cables you can get for $8. All $35 of this stuff can be included FREE for only an additional $100!

Yes, I know you would have to hack the hard drive in there, but so what, anyone honestly think that won't haooen within a week of release?

As far as microsoft blowing it... news flash, they sell like 10 consoles per week in asia. There was nothing TO Blow.

They'll do just fine, as will sony, and nintendo. But I imagine these crap on threads will continues just fine as well. Long live the crap!


Well, the problem with what you say is that Microsoft has made it where you have to make officially licensed products for the 360. In other words Mad Catz, Pelican, etc.. can't make accessories unless they pay MS to do so. Which will drive up the prices of Accessories. What I think is stupid is the price of some of the Accessories. The wireless adapter is $99, the thing where you can make your controller rechargeable though a USB port is $19.99, wireless controllers are $49.99. So to make the 360 wireless, have an extra controller, and have the controllers rechargeable like they should have been out of the box will cost close to $700. Microsoft is tearing everyone a new ass with this pricing, and I'm thinking very seriously about not buying one when it comes out, which saddens me since I usually buy release day.

[jajaja]

If the 360 fails, then let it take the HD DVD format with it. Blu-Ray is the way :)

Personally I think having multiple versions of a console is a bad idea, but if MS does pursue the idea of releasing a stripped-down version I'm sure an optional HD won't be far behind (as long as they have the foresight to design it for one).

Afaik you can buy a hdd for the core version.

[slip81]

Well I don't think this is a very smart move, but I don't think this will bury M$ either. The games for the 360 still look like they are going to be good. But by doing something like not making the HDD standard will just make the games have less features like longer loading times, and maybe less than stellar graphics, and memory cards will have to be used more.

As far as not including an HD cable, that's no big deal, believe it or not Anthony, most consumers/gamers still don't have HDTV, and won't be buying one right alongside their new 360, and the people that do have HDTV can just spend an extra $15 to get the cable.

Though isn't the 360 supposed to support swapping HDD's? I'm not sure how it works but maybe the consumer will be able to plug any HDD in there, and since HDD are so cheap now not having one come standard will allow us to put say a 200gig drive in there for massive storage.

And there is also the possibility that developers will make all games with HD and the HDD in mind, thus forcing people who don't have the equipment to upgrade to get all the features.

[Sylentwulf]

Well, the problem with what you say is that Microsoft has made it where you have to make officially licensed products for the 360. In other words Mad Catz, Pelican, etc.. can't make accessories unless they pay MS to do so. Which will drive up the prices of Accessories. What I think is stupid is the price of some of the Accessories. The wireless adapter is $99, the thing where you can make your controller rechargeable though a USB port is $19.99, wireless controllers are $49.99. So to make the 360 wireless, have an extra controller, and have the controllers rechargeable like they should have been out of the box will cost close to $700. Microsoft is tearing everyone a new ass with this pricing, and I'm thinking very seriously about not buying one when it comes out, which saddens me since I usually buy release day.

True, but as always, I have faith in hackers to find SOME way to do it :) What the liscencsed axx thing will hurt is people like me, who sell imported third party accessories.

[shoes23]

We all know by now Microsoft's core customer has to be a Walmart customer

I have no idea where you're getting that information from.

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - More people buy video games at Wal-Mart than any other store in the country.

Link please! Tried searching their website for that statistic/article and found nothing.

[Joe Sixpack]

Hey, don't blame me - I jus' wanna play games for cheap, yeah?

[smokehouse]

I think that many people are missing one large point. The mass public is not ready for HD material yet. Not including the HD cable in the “core” 360 will suit most of the buyers just fine.

The funny thing is that I am in a great mood about the next lineup of consoles. I don’t give a shit. I won’t be buying a 360 as I had a Xbox for around 4 months and sold it, hell, I did the same with my PS2 3 years ago. Most new games are shit; I’m tired of cookie-cutter titles, FPS repeats, driving sims and sport titles. Paying $300-400 just to play these games? Not a chance in the world. Halo 3? I couldn’t care less. Personally I’d rather sink more $$ into my retro collection. Will I pick up one eventually? Yep. But, it will be so far down the road that these stupid core-vs-full edition topics will be a thing of the past.

The ONLY thing about this mess that really bothers me is the ridiculous format war between HDDVD and Blu Ray. I have big $$ sunk into my home theater and I’m dying to get a true-blue HD media source for movies. This bullshit format garbage is only going to make thing draw out longer.






One last thing. Microsoft can eat my balls. After nearly a decade of shit OS’s and crashing PCs, I switched to Apple and have never looked back.

[evildead2099]

We all know by now Microsoft's core customer has to be a Walmart customer

I have no idea where you're getting that information from.

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - More people buy video games at Wal-Mart than any other store in the country.[/quote]

Ah, but then it's not just Microsoft's core customer who is a Wal-Mart cumsumer; it's Sony's core consumer as well as Nintendo's.

[evildead2099]

[Microsoft] did not get to be this successful by making bad decisions.

Are you talking about Microsoft's history with respect to console gaming, or Microsoft's history in general? Microsoft has made plenty of bad decisions in general, especially with respect to its Windows line of Operating Systems. In that respect, it doesn't matter how 'good' or 'bad' Microsoft's decisions are; the company will continue to be successful so long as it enjoys a monopoly with respect to commercial operating systems.

Microsoft never had monopoly on the OS front. There have always been other OS's to choose from. Hell, UNIX came years before Microsoft started producing something.
Today there is no problem to choose your OS. If you want Windows you can use it, if you want Linux you can use it, if you want OSX you can use it.
So even if Windows is used by most ppl in the world MS never had a true monopoly because there have always been other OS's to choose from.

I said Microsoft has had a monopoly with respect to COMMERCIAL operating systems, as opposed to operating systems in general.

And yes, while Microsoft might not have a monopoly in the purest sense of the word, their stranglehold over the PC-based commercial operating system market is about as representative of a monopoly as anything you'll find. I challenge you to name an industry in which a single business resembles a monopoly more than Microsoft does with respect to commercial operating systems for PCs. I can think of a few, but not very many.

[tritium]

[Microsoft] did not get to be this successful by making bad decisions.

Are you talking about Microsoft's history with respect to console gaming, or Microsoft's history in general? Microsoft has made plenty of bad decisions in general, especially with respect to its Windows line of Operating Systems. In that respect, it doesn't matter how 'good' or 'bad' Microsoft's decisions are; the company will continue to be successful so long as it enjoys a monopoly with respect to commercial operating systems.

Microsoft never had monopoly on the OS front. There have always been other OS's to choose from. Hell, UNIX came years before Microsoft started producing something.
Today there is no problem to choose your OS. If you want Windows you can use it, if you want Linux you can use it, if you want OSX you can use it.
So even if Windows is used by most ppl in the world MS never had a true monopoly because there have always been other OS's to choose from.

Actually they did. They threatened vendors that wanted to pack other OS's with their hardware.

Its how they maintained a good part of their 90%+ Market share. Just recently, when this behavior came to light (past 5 years or so) and the maturing of Unix and Unix compatible software on x86 has the situation begun to change.

[Damion]

you know what, whenever I want a thread to go to crap on a shingle I'm just going to jump in and say. (instead of tomato)


XBOX!


Just to make all you overly devoted fanboys dance. Don't get me wrong I'm a fanboy to. but of GAMES I could careless who or what makes the devices I play them on. So Microsoft screwed themselves. yeah I'm disappionted. but so what. they'll be something better down the road and who knows maybe they'll wiseup and make it standerd.

[smokehouse]

The Xbox fanboy shit is why I left my last gaming forum (www.onthespotgames.com). It basically became an Xbox forum where you could say nothing wrong about the Xbox. If you did you faced the fanboy wrath.

Xbox rulz LOL LOL!!! UR an idiot LOL!!

And before you’d know it 20 others would jump in. The other parts of the forum (Sony, Nintendo, etc) would sit dormant for weeks. I simply got tired of it.

This site is mainly retro games who still love gaming enough to buy new consoles. Many other sites like the one mentioned above are populated by people who don’t play older titles nor do they respect them. To many of them if it’s not the latest and greatest, it’s not worth playing.

[Captain J]

I do this weird thing where I just buy every system that comes out and do not complain about any of it because i love videogames! 8-)

Seriously people who cares how much it costs? There is always going to be a game for every system that you will want to play so why not just have them all? and before I get the "these things cost money that i dont have, you know" complaints, I ask you this, what do you work for? I work so I can buy some things that make me happy to do when I am not at work. thats what life is, you do things that you enjoy. $400 seems like alot of money, but to alot of people thats not even a 1 month rent payment, but it could buy you 4-5 years of enjoyment (assuming the 360 has that long of a shelf life)! buy the xbox 360, buy the ps3, and then buy the revolution and be happy that we live in a world where we get to play video games every day!

oh yeah and for the people who dont have a lot of money, i say this....Walmart has Layaway you know! LOL

[Slimedog]

Even if no developers use the HDD because of the reasons above, how will that doom the 360? I didn't think any of the other platforms had a hard drive end even if they did, I don't see how it makes that much of a difference. The only thing you can really use a hard drive for it for bigger downloadable content and patches for rushed, broken software. Honestly, both of these can be circumvented by developers spending a bit more time in development and including this in the standard release.

[alec006]

:/ Well if Microsoft dosent put the HD on there it may be a problem,but then theres always memory cards....that get lost....a take more time to save than a HD..... x_x . I guess we will see what microsoft does.

[Captain J]

:/ Well if Microsoft dosent put the HD on there it may be a problem,but then theres always memory cards....that get lost....a take more time to save than a HD..... x_x . I guess we will see what microsoft does.

have you seen the price of the memory cards? $40!! you might as well just grab the $399 pack!

[Anthony1]

Not having the hard drive as a standard in every single XBOX 360 is a pretty big deal. I don't think people are realizing just how important it is.


On the current XBOX, alot of games utilize the hard drive for the game to load much faster. Compare the average PS2 game that also has a XBOX version, usually the XBOX version loads faster.



As for the High Def component cable, I do understand that alot of people haven't jumped on the High Def bandwagon yet, but they will soon. The main reason that I'm complaining about that is because MS talked about how this is the "HD ERA", yet they aren't even giving people a cheapo HD cable in the core system.


Just buy one seperately for $19.99?



Unfortunately, no. You can buy it seperately, for $39.99.


Also you can buy the memory card seperately for $39.99 and a wireless controller seperately for $49.99.

and the hard drive seperately for $99.99


in other words......




NOBODY WITH HALF A BRAIN SHOULD BUY THE CORE SYSTEM.



But, we all know that money talks and bullshit walks, and there will be plenty of cheap asses buying the core version, not realizing how stupid in the long term that will be.



As for the accessories, MS is doing some weird shit this time. On launch day, you aren't going to be able to buy a 3rd party HD component cable for $19.99. And that's exactly the way they want it.


They want it to be so blantantly obvious that the $400 premium version is the way to go.





THE CORE SYSTEM AT $300 IS JUST A SMOKE SCREEN AND A MARKETING PLOY.



If you system costs $399.99 then just freaking deal with it. Don't come out with two different SKU's to confuse everybody like this. I'm telling you, there is going to be mass confusion over this. I feel for all the GameStop and EB and Game Crazy employees that are going to have to explain this over, and over and over.



I just really think this was a total mistake on Microsofts part, and it's going to come back and bite them in the ARSE major!


I can tell you one thing. The powers that be at Sony are smiling right now.

[tritium]

Not having the hard drive as a standard in every single XBOX 360 is a pretty big deal. I don't think people are realizing just how important it is.


On the current XBOX, alot of games utilize the hard drive for the game to load much faster. Compare the average PS2 game that also has a XBOX version, usually the XBOX version loads faster.



As for the High Def component cable, I do understand that alot of people haven't jumped on the High Def bandwagon yet, but they will soon. The main reason that I'm complaining about that is because MS talked about how this is the "HD ERA", yet they aren't even giving people a cheapo HD cable in the core system.


Just buy one seperately for $19.99?



Unfortunately, no. You can buy it seperately, for $39.99.


Also you can buy the memory card seperately for $39.99 and a wireless controller seperately for $49.99.

and the hard drive seperately for $99.99


in other words......




NOBODY WITH HALF A BRAIN SHOULD BUY THE CORE SYSTEM.



But, we all know that money talks and bullshit walks, and there will be plenty of cheap asses buying the core version, not realizing how stupid in the long term that will be.



As for the accessories, MS is doing some weird shit this time. On launch day, you aren't going to be able to buy a 3rd party HD component cable for $19.99. And that's exactly the way they want it.


They want it to be so blantantly obvious that the $400 premium version is the way to go.





THE CORE SYSTEM AT $300 IS JUST A SMOKE SCREEN AND A MARKETING PLOY.



If you system costs $399.99 then just freaking deal with it. Don't come out with two different SKU's to confuse everybody like this. I'm telling you, there is going to be mass confusion over this. I feel for all the GameStop and EB and Game Crazy employees that are going to have to explain this over, and over and over.



I just really think this was a total mistake on Microsofts part, and it's going to come back and bite them in the ARSE major!


I can tell you one thing. The powers that be at Sony are smiling right now.

Actually its a boon for retailers. Most retailers make little or nothing on the system, and get their biggest proffits from accesories. Lots of money in those $25 controllers.

[rayearthknight]

I'm going to assume that there will be two camps of Xbox 360 users:
1) The people who buy 1 player/4 player with controller games and just play them...for them, a 360 sans HD will be just like what they have now (except...they'll need to buy a memory card)
2) The people who use Xbox Live--which requires the use of the hard drive to store files for on-line play. If the new Xbox is backwards compatible to the present version, it's going to have to have one for games like Halo 2 or the Live Arcade to work. Let's just hope that the purchase of the HD unit gets us free Live service...if for a little while.

[jajaja]

Actually they did. They threatened vendors that wanted to pack other OS's with their hardware.

Its how they maintained a good part of their 90%+ Market share. Just recently, when this behavior came to light (past 5 years or so) and the maturing of Unix and Unix compatible software on x86 has the situation begun to change.

Its 2 diffrent thing to threatend and acctualy happend. But the thing is that there have always been other OS's to choose from. So MS have never had a true monopoly on OS. You can do a google search on "OS timeline" to find more info on other OS's :)

[Zubiac666]

Just buy one seperately for $19.99?



Unfortunately, no. You can buy it seperately, for $39.99.




what?
why the heck is it so expensive
that's almost a game :hmm:

[Damion]

you know, I'm thinking that microsoft did it this way so that the they could try and break the 299.99 console launch price stigma. Sure thats a really long term plan. but what else could they be doing by having the core package at 299.99 while the Premium Has it all hardrive, Wireless controller, Remote (which I hear is limited to launch systems) and HD componet cables for only a hundred dollars more.

I honestly can't see why they did it this way.

Oh and yes I will be one of those guys on the Launch bandwagon because I can't wait to get my hands on the new morrowind.

[Slimedog]

I still don't see why this is a big deal. If (and its a big if) no 360 developer puts hard drive support into their software and users have to deal with slightly longer load times, its still the same load time that they will have to deal with on the PS3 which also lacks a hard drive. There is no competitive disadvantage here, it just puts them on even ground.

As for the HD cable, Microsoft already said all games will be HD compatible. Since all of the software will have HD support, why does it matter if somebody else gets the HD cable or not?

I'd probably get the hard drive just so I could (hopefully) play all my old Xbox games but I can see the wisdom in allowing the customer to decide how much that backwards compatibility is worth on their own.

[Damion]

but why make the core package look almost worthless compared to the premium? I think thats more of the "Deal" really. Hardrive or no hardrive the amount of cash you would spend to get all the extras compared to buying the core out weigh any momentary gain you would gather from buying the core system.

[tritium]

Actually they did. They threatened vendors that wanted to pack other OS's with their hardware.

Its how they maintained a good part of their 90%+ Market share. Just recently, when this behavior came to light (past 5 years or so) and the maturing of Unix and Unix compatible software on x86 has the situation begun to change.

Its 2 diffrent thing to threatend and acctualy happend. But the thing is that there have always been other OS's to choose from. So MS have never had a true monopoly on OS. You can do a google search on "OS timeline" to find more info on other OS's :)

See, now your defining a monopoly as an absolute monopoly. So which case you're trying to say that microsoft didn't have a monopoly because they were racketering? Eitherway its illegal as hell. They maintained their marketshare by bullying the crap out of everyone else.

[Diatribal Deity]

Walmart currently has 23% market share. But I stand corrected...or will stand corrected whenever this is finalized.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8409492/

Ultimately the merger will result in Elbostop owning 25% market share.

And for the record I am not a Microsoft fanboy as I like any and every system out there. Although I could easily be swayed with a chunk of that $40 billion Microsoft has in its cash reserve LOL .

[buttasuperb]

haha, wait to you see the ps3's prices.

remember, there are only xbox fanboys, sony and nintendo fans are completely civil and aren't fanboys at all. LOL LOL LOL LOL

[jajaja]

Actually they did. They threatened vendors that wanted to pack other OS's with their hardware.

Its how they maintained a good part of their 90%+ Market share. Just recently, when this behavior came to light (past 5 years or so) and the maturing of Unix and Unix compatible software on x86 has the situation begun to change.

Its 2 diffrent thing to threatend and acctualy happend. But the thing is that there have always been other OS's to choose from. So MS have never had a true monopoly on OS. You can do a google search on "OS timeline" to find more info on other OS's :)

See, now your defining a monopoly as an absolute monopoly. So which case you're trying to say that microsoft didn't have a monopoly because they were racketering? Eitherway its illegal as hell. They maintained their marketshare by bullying the crap out of everyone else.

Hehe what im saying is that MS never had monopoly on OS because there have always been other alternatives. That is a fact.

[slip81]

[Microsoft] did not get to be this successful by making bad decisions.

Are you talking about Microsoft's history with respect to console gaming, or Microsoft's history in general? Microsoft has made plenty of bad decisions in general, especially with respect to its Windows line of Operating Systems. In that respect, it doesn't matter how 'good' or 'bad' Microsoft's decisions are; the company will continue to be successful so long as it enjoys a monopoly with respect to commercial operating systems.

Microsoft never had monopoly on the OS front. There have always been other OS's to choose from. Hell, UNIX came years before Microsoft started producing something.
Today there is no problem to choose your OS. If you want Windows you can use it, if you want Linux you can use it, if you want OSX you can use it.
So even if Windows is used by most ppl in the world MS never had a true monopoly because there have always been other OS's to choose from.

Actually they did. They threatened vendors that wanted to pack other OS's with their hardware.

Its how they maintained a good part of their 90%+ Market share. Just recently, when this behavior came to light (past 5 years or so) and the maturing of Unix and Unix compatible software on x86 has the situation begun to change.

Actually they didn't. In order for Microsoft to have a monopoly on the OS market it would mean that there were no other alternatives except DOS/Windows, and that was never the case.

Weather MS threated hardware companies or not doesn't matter, the fact remains that systems like UNIX and Linux have always been available, not to menntion Apple's OS, and I doubt MS ever tried to threaten Apple and demand that every new PowerMac come equipped with Windows.

[CrimsonNugget]

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I'm on the Xbox 360 wagon thus far because it looks the most promising out of the three without seeming like being ALL promises. If I get a 360, you can bet I'll get a hard drive if games will save to it. I hate juggling memory cards, and it'll let you have more fun with exploits if there ever are any (hi PS2 and Xbox). As far as HDTV goes, I don't really care because I don't have one and probably won't any time soon. Most Joe Sixpacks don't have HDTV's either.

[jonjandran]

Hasn't Sony said that the PS3 won't come with a harddrive either and that it will be optional ?

[hbkprm]

the rev is the much needed comeback that nintendo is looking for!!!

[Zing]

While I feel it is not wise for MS to fragment their userbase by not shipping a hard drive with every system, I don't think it will cause much harm to gamers, and may even be a boon.

I believe that the main attraction of a HD for the current generation of consoles was the ability to cache data for shorter load times. I don't see load times being an issue with the next generation.

Also, the existance of a mass storage device on a console may perpetuate publishers' "release now, patch later" ideology that PC gamers have been suffering through for a decade.

Also it looks like the PC will remain the MMORPG king for yet another generation. :)

[buttasuperb]

the rev is the much needed comeback that nintendo is looking for!!!

hahah, how do you know?

considering there hasn't been much of any info released about it.

[walrusmonger]

The Core system will be sold to parents for this holiday season, the people who get the Core system will mostly use it for single player games or multiplayer on 1 console games. They wont miss the features, don't need component cables, and will get the system+mem card+game for the same price as the standard 360 alone.

For $400, the full 360 package is a great deal.
I'd buy component cables anyway, the hard drive being removable is GREAT. Now if your system bites the dust you can just plop it into the new one and be set with your old data. The wireless controller is sweet, with the headset.

Obviously this is marketed for the live vs. non-live crowd. Anyone looking to play online would be a moron for buying the core system.

I got a chance to play the 360 @ e3, and the controller was awesome. The games were all early builds, but it's def. going to show off our sweet tvs :-D PS3 we'll have to see what happens with that when it comes out, but MS is playing hardball now.

I have already talked to customers about the system differences, and it's not confusing to them at all.

[Yago]

I think that Microsoft Bob is the best operating system ever made! EVER!

Here is what I need to know. Now that I have a XBox pre-ordered, I wonder which one I will get? If they are only holding 10 for example, and 8 are Core systems, and I want the better version, I guess I am screwed huh? I can't really tell them what I want because the stores really don't know what they are getting yet. So, I think I am better off cancelling the order and waiting, because I am sick of playing guessing games.

[evil_genius]

Microsoft cannot die simply because they have so much frickin money. But I agree with everything in the original post.

[foxy]

Not having the hard drive as a standard in every single XBOX 360 is a pretty big deal. I don't think people are realizing just how important it is.


On the current XBOX, alot of games utilize the hard drive for the game to load much faster. Compare the average PS2 game that also has a XBOX version, usually the XBOX version loads faster.

Wait a minute... think... Won't developers utilize caching support if the game detects a hard drive? and not if not?

That said, I'd hate it if DOA4 has longer load times than a fully cached DOA2U, which is practically non-existent.. But with 512mb, I'm still optimistic with or without the HDD (Umm, I'll go with...)

Other than the hard drive "issue", I don't see much relevence in your original post, I don't think Microsoft blew anything...yet. I don't see much wrong with Microsoft's decisions thus-far.

[jdc]

Too bad. I kind of like the idea of not fussing with memory cards.

I'm so very torn as to whether or not to buy a next gen system. I'm extremely happy with my Xbox and Cube and there are many games yet to play. I just don't CARE about moving forward with the latest and greatest anymore. What I REALLY want is a PSP....I can see getting great enjoyment out of it. I'm just awaiting a price drop before I get one.

In a perfect world they'd continue to make new games for old consoles.

[Jorpho]

You do realize Bill Gates Charitaible organization endowment is now valued close to at or near $30 billion. That's what he has donated towards aids research and other worldly causes.

AIDS research? I thought Microsoft's charitable donations were primarily concerned with providing computers and information access to isolated and/or poverty-stricken areas. (Which I suppose is nice, but it's debatable whether that's as important as some other causes that would not potentially make more money for Microsoft in the long run.)

Anyway, the PS2's hard drive was optional. People who wanted to play FFXI bought a hard drive, other people didn't, and all was well. 'Nuff said.

[Zap!]

Well.. even if MS doesnt sell 1 single xbox360 console they would still be the biggest company.

Are you saying Microsoft is bigger than Sony? I dunno about that. While Bill Gates is the richest man in the world, Microsoft is not the biggest or richest company in the world.

[Avenger]

the hard drive is going to be for ripping music to your 360 so you can have custom soundtracks..no HD..not custom soundtracks, also for downloading new maps etc from live...the core system has the ability to put the HD in so theres nothing to worry bout. I personally think this 2 system thing is a great idea. Of course I will be getting the regular one, as it comes with the HD, wireless controller, head set, remote etc...lets od the math for a second:

core + HD = same price as the regular...

so therefore your gettin ALL the other stuff FREE when you buy the regular, seeing as how the HD itself costs 100 bucks.

I personally think Microsoft is doing a great job so far, they are going to have a much bigger chunk of the industry (well, in the US, not Asia :P ). There are a lot of great games set to come out also, and more great games makes me happy :).

all this fuss about the HD is just stupid...if someone buys the core, and realizes they want the hard drive later on, to download new maps or whatever, then they can go buy one! no big deal. Its like FFXI with PS2....want to play it? go get the hard drive...you dont see pplbitching about how Sony is going down becuz of that.

Obviously if your complaining about the HD, then your gunna get the one with it. But maybe some ppl dont care, and they are the ones who will buy the cheaper one...so just relax.

[pixelsnpolygons]

Good rant with some good points.

[jajaja]

You do realize Bill Gates Charitaible organization endowment is now valued close to at or near $30 billion. That's what he has donated towards aids research and other worldly causes.

AIDS research? I thought Microsoft's charitable donations were primarily concerned with providing computers and information access to isolated and/or poverty-stricken areas. (Which I suppose is nice, but it's debatable whether that's as important as some other causes that would not potentially make more money for Microsoft in the long run.)


Yep, Bill Gates donates alot to AIDS research. He also own some hospitals. He also donates to other stuff too. When he dies all his fortune so to say will be donated to charity.

[Diatribal Deity]

Well.. even if MS doesnt sell 1 single xbox360 console they would still be the biggest company.

Are you saying Microsoft is bigger than Sony? I dunno about that. While Bill Gates is the richest man in the world, Microsoft is not the biggest or richest company in the world.

Sony revenue wise is bigger than Microsoft but if you look at profit margins its quite laughable. This list ranks the worlds largest comanys based on sales, profits, assets, and market value. #31 microsoft #82 sony

http://www.forbes.com/lists/results.jhtml?passListId=18&passYear=2004&passListType=Company&searchParameter1=unset&searchParameter2=unset&resultsStart=1&resultsHowMany=100&resultsSortProperties=%2Bnumberfield1%2C%2Bstringf ield2&resultsSortCategoryName=rank&passKeyword=&category1=category&category2=category&fromColumnClick=true

[Avenger]

Good rant with some good points.

thank you :)...it was late, but i felt it had to be done LOL

[Anthony1]

all this fuss about the HD is just stupid...if someone buys the core, and realizes they want the hard drive later on, to download new maps or whatever, then they can go buy one! no big deal. Its like FFXI with PS2....want to play it? go get the hard drive...you dont see pplbitching about how Sony is going down becuz of that.


Actually, it's not stupid. They are fragmenting their customer base with this move.

It's never a good idea to deliberately fragment your user base.


You are going to have certain percentage of 360 owners that don't have a hard drive, and a certain percentage of 360 owners that do have the hard drive.

That's known as a fragmented user base, and it's never a great idea to have that.

Take a game like Blinx on the current XBOX. Ok, we all know that Blinx is pretty lame, but it did take advantage of the hard drive in gameplay with the whole rewind time concept.

A game like on the 360 might never get made because of the fragmented user base.



That is why people are upset over this.


Microsoft was the first company to have a hard drive be a standard feature in their game system, and now they are taking a step backwards with this move.



Can somebody with a Core system buy one later? Yes, of course they can, but the whole point of this thread is that historically, attatch rates for peripherals are pretty horrible.

Look at the Sega CD, look at the 32X, look at the PS2 hard drive or the Nintendo 64 DD, etc, etc, etc.


If the person is that cheap to buy a core system in the first place, then they are probably cheap enough to never buy the hard drive.



Developers are always going to code to the lowest common denominator. Just look at PC's. PC's are tons more powerful than current consoles, but console games look better than PC games alot of times. The reason why, is because a PC developer has to account for the guy that has a old Pentium 2 400 mhz computer.

Well, 360 developers are going to have to account for the cheap bastard that never got a hard drive.





You know what would have made this whole thing pointless? If they included like 1 GB of Flash Ram, so that developers could still have super fast load times and stuff like that.




Also, I think that what Microsoft is going to do ultimately, to make this a moot point, is they just make it so that to play Halo 3 you absolutely have to have the hard drive.


Then anybody that has a 360 that still doesn't have the hard drive, will have to buy a HD to play Halo 3.


They can even have a Halo 3 with the HD bundle.

[Chuplayer]

CONCUR'D.

I also think Microsoft blew it. Not just on the 360 end, but even on the first XBOX.

[Diatribal Deity]

While I agree with your point about added peripherals, how about this point...don't you think Microsoft talked to the software developers and asked them if they were planning on supporting it? Then took this into account when determining where to go with development of the system.

[dethink]

i really don't see this as a problem...anyone who knows anything about games is going to buy the $399 version, and non-tech savvy folks are going to buy the $299 version.

[CrimsonNugget]

You know what would have made this whole thing pointless? If they included like 1 GB of Flash Ram, so that developers could still have super fast load times and stuff like that.
Flash memory is slower and more expensive than a hard drive is. Besides, 1GB is pretty weak to use as a data caching measure, especially considering that the system has 512MB of memory already.

The fanboyism is strong in this thread. It hurts the brain.

ADD: ...and you guys are acting like this will kill the system. It really won't. The Xbox has a very solid fanbase and I don't remember the original having a hard drive being a huge factor anyway. This will probably help Microsoft in the long run because they won't have to ship every system with a hard drive anymore (to people who don't even use them). The PS2 didn't die because a seperate hard drive was released either, that's just NOT how it works.

[Avenger]

there are SOO many people that dont even touch their hard drives AT ALL...This having 2 options is a great way for them to get even more customers, I think its a very good strat. But for the majority of us...there is NO option...its 399 or none, there is NO 299 option...so dont even worry about the 299 model because its not for you.

And yes i agree there is major fayboyism going on here. Who is to say the Xbox failed? Yes it did horribly in Asia...but of course it did, it is targeted towards american gamers, and in the US lets not forget, it did better than our beloved Gamecube..so does that mean the Gamecube failed?

I love, and own all systems equally :villagepeople:

[NoahsMyBro]

Actually, I'd say "Yes, the Gamecube failed." It seems fairly obvious to me.

And for wahtever it's worth, I have little interest in an Xbox, almost no interest in a Playstation 2, and own and enjoy my Gamecube.

[swlovinist]

$400 for the the inclusive package is an OK price, but it is just going to confuse the public. I think that the 360 selling two different packages is going to split its market and just be downright confusing. Here is what I think the standard public is going to think:

The original Xbox has a hardrive and the this core model does not, what the hell? O_O

So what you are telling me is that I need to buy the expensive model to play my Xbox games, making the core model completey useless to save or play anything xbox? O_O

Youre telling me I dont even get a friggin wireless controller? O_O

MICROSOFT, YOU ARE PROVING TO THE GAMING COMMUNITY THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE A CLUE WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE DOING!

[Niku-Sama]

i hope M$ goes away and some othe company comes in its place worth while....who knows mabe atari software will consider hardware again or sega even....if theres a gap in the market some one will fill it.

my money is on nintendo this round...they seem to have stopped being the kiddie system with its goofy designs and gone back to the old way of doing things with new technology.

to add to all of the ranting i think sony screwed up by not supporting previous memory card from PSX and PS2, but thats still not 100% confirmed. i am going to be pissed off if it ships like that though.

[PS2Hawk]

yea their definition of HD ERA is total BS. I think MS just wants to combine the PC and console gaming and RUIN them both togather.

MS puts togather a PC and call it a console.... you know MS has so much money and they are just paying million and millions just to establish themselves and then start making money, they dun give a shit about gaming or gamers...

next generation I am only getting a PS3 and Nintendo REV... GOD I WANT SEGA TO RESURECT(spellings wrong) and own gaming agian...

[PS2Hawk]

$400 for the the inclusive package is an OK price, but it is just going to confuse the public. I think that the 360 selling two different packages is going to split its market and just be downright confusing. Here is what I think the standard public is going to think:

The original Xbox has a hardrive and the this core model does not, what the hell? O_O

So what you are telling me is that I need to buy the expensive model to play my Xbox games, making the core model completey useless to save or play anything xbox? O_O

Youre telling me I dont even get a friggin wireless controller? O_O

MICROSOFT, YOU ARE PROVING TO THE GAMING COMMUNITY THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE A CLUE WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE DOING!



Did you read J Allard's chat logs ? MS does not want anyone to get the core system package. The games are going to support the hard drive, so wat the first few won't but then most will need hard drive and then you have to pay them 100 US for the 20 gig hard drive.

MS are just putting the 300 US bundle to make SONY look bad.

The PS3 is totally more powerfull (don't listen to dumb people saying 2X powerfull) but PS3 edges out the xbox 360 in every single fucking way...

so wait and see wat SONY has for online, there was an article I read about CELL and networking. I just want some more details... my advise will be not to get the xbox 360 at launch .... compare the 2 consoles and then get one.

[Richter Belmount]

nothing can stop microsoft , they are a monopoly after all , if the 360 gets stuck with bad games , they just buy up people hire em and make em make good games , so they cant die pure money and power.

[Niku-Sama]

they arent a monopoly but they have a monopoly on operating systems for computers, in the console world no one comapny runs it but one company can run the majority...and despite how they might want to microsoft isnt that one

[sabre2922]

the hard drive is going to be for ripping music to your 360 so you can have custom soundtracks..no HD..not custom soundtracks, also for downloading new maps etc from live...the core system has the ability to put the HD in so theres nothing to worry bout. I personally think this 2 system thing is a great idea. Of course I will be getting the regular one, as it comes with the HD, wireless controller, head set, remote etc...lets od the math for a second:

core + HD = same price as the regular...

so therefore your gettin ALL the other stuff FREE when you buy the regular, seeing as how the HD itself costs 100 bucks.

I personally think Microsoft is doing a great job so far, they are going to have a much bigger chunk of the industry (well, in the US, not Asia :P ). There are a lot of great games set to come out also, and more great games makes me happy :).

all this fuss about the HD is just stupid...if someone buys the core, and realizes they want the hard drive later on, to download new maps or whatever, then they can go buy one! no big deal. Its like FFXI with PS2....want to play it? go get the hard drive...you dont see pplbitching about how Sony is going down becuz of that.

Obviously if your complaining about the HD, then your gunna get the one with it. But maybe some ppl dont care, and they are the ones who will buy the cheaper one...so just relax.

I agree fully AMEN bro :rocker:

By the way how does anyone know that the PS3 is going to be so god-almighty-powerful huh? that IS fanboyism at its worst man.
Thats the same type of hyped up bullshit that Sony pushed down our throats about the PS2 and when it came out NONE of the games looked any better than what was on Segas Dreamcast until MGS2 was released much later.Only in the last couple years did developers surpass what could have been accomplished on Segas Dreamcast (MAYBE).

The fact is all of the Next-gen systems will look great very few ppl especially the mass of casual gamers out there will be able to tell any REAL fucking difference the days of each system having very different looking ports of any certain game title have been over since the PSone,Saturn,N64 days.

Hell even in this Generation the MAJORITY of PS2,Xbox,GC multiports look almost EXACTLY the same with very few exceptions ;)

Now back to the topic at hand NO I dont think Microsoft blew this one from what ive read both online and off 90% of the developers currently making games for the Xbox360 are not developing the with the HD in mind other than for saves or addtitional content. The 512Mb provided is plenty for at least the first generation of Xbox360 games.

Yes most of us here that plan on getting a 360 will pick up the "complete" set but you may be surprised at how many "other" ppl and gamers pick up the core system and one memory card.

Not everyone has HD Tvs yet and not EVERYONE plays their games online infact only bout 30% of console gamers even play online thats MILLIONS that dont.

Anyway thats just my two cents. :angel: