Can bundles be forced after the fact?

[Anthony1]

Let's say that you had already put money down on a XBOX 360.


Way back in May, you put $50 down, to preorder your XBOX 360.



At that time, there was no news of any bundles or anything like that, and all you were doing is putting money down on the actual 360 unit, not any bundles of any kind.


Can they come back later and say that you have to buy a bundle?



Back in May, I preordered a XBOX 360 from GameCrazy. I put $50 down, and I have a receipt that shows that I have a XBOX 360 on pre-order from GameCrazy. On this receipt is no mention whatsoever of any bundles or anything like that.


Can they actually force me to buy it in a bundle?


Or are these bundles just for the people that are pre-ordering theirs now?



I guess one way a retailer can force a bundle on anybody, would be to "ONLY" sell it in bundles. Then this would happen:


Customer: "Hi, I have a XBOX 360 preordered, I put $50 down on it in May, I need to pick mine up"

Retailer: "Oh, no problem, the grand total is $746.97. You put $50 down, so the remaining balance to be paid is $696.97"

Customer: "WHAT THE FUCK!" "What are you talking about, I'm just getting the XBOX 360, the one with the hard drive, I owe an extra $381 to get it, not an extra $696.97"

Retailer: "Oh, I'm sorry, but we "ONLY" sell the 360 in bundles. We don't sell them individually. You can either pay the $696.97, or I will have to give your XBOX 360 to the next customer on our list"

Customer: "Fuck that, just give me my damn $50 then, I guess I'm going to hit Target at 5am in the morning and hop in line"


as customer leaves the store, you hear him mumble "Fuck Game Crazy, they can kiss my white ass".

[DogP]

I doubt that they can force the bundles on you... I had a friend that preordered a few PSPs, then they did the whole bundle only thing, but he was able to just buy the systems like he preordered. I don't think he did any from Game Crazy though, I think his were all Gamestop and EB Games... he bought them for all of his nephews (lucky them ;) ).

DogP

[DonMarco]

Can they come back later and say that you have to buy a bundle?
No. You don't "have" to do anything. How good at arguing with managers are you? Sure you put you $50 down, but that guarantees nothing in the real world.


Can they actually force me to buy it in a bundle?
They can't force you to buy a bundle, but if someone comes in right behind you wil $800 cash on them, they're gonna get the system. To futher incriminate "them", if you don't get a bundle, you probably won't get a phone call when the systems come in.

Sorry. When the demand dies down, say after the holidays, the bundles should disappear.


Or are these bundles just for the people that are pre-ordering theirs now?
Now that head offices have decided what bundles will be, sales people can explain them. So people who preorder 360s will know what comes with it, not like two weeks ago or 5 months ago.

Also be aware that if you aren't going in for the bundles, pull your money out of their system as soon as possible. The more preorders there are, the larger their initial shipment will be, regardless of how many people are picking up bundles. The extra systems will be put behind glass cabinets and made into hefty impulse buys.

[Anthony1]

Well, personally, I think that the specialty stores are going to go with the:


"We only sell the 360 in bundles, and your preorder does guarantee you a 360, but because we only sell it in bundles, you would have to buy it in a bundle"


excuse.



Now, having said that, they might have a contingency plan that states that if somebody is going postal over this and causing a big fuss, they might begrudgingly sell them the 360 sans bundle.


I also think that they might be willing to sell it out of a bundle, but maybe only offer the "core" system to those that refuse to go with a bundle. Since most hardcore gamers will have nothing to do with a core system, this forces the bundle on them anyways.



My personal strategy is that I'm going to go to a Target or Best Buy at about 5 am in the morning, and I'm going to get in line. Of course this is assuming that Target and Best Buy isn't going to be doing bundles too. I'm going to get in line at 5 am in the morning, and play my Atari Lynx for several hours in line at wait for them to open up, and then buy my 360.

If for some reason, I'm unable to get one this way, then I can still fall back on my pre-order. If I have to go the pre-order route, then I will try to make a big stink about the thing, and see if I can get them to just sell me the premium unit sans bundle.


If ultimately, my only option is the bundle, then I might have to just deal with it.

But I figure that my chance of having to deal with a bundle is about 20 percent, and my chance of getting it without a bundle is about 80 percent.


My ideal situation is to just get the $399 360 and nothing else. Then I will go to Blockbuster and get a Gamer's Pass a two XBOX 360 games. Actually, I'll probably get 2 Gamer's Passes at two different blockbusters, so I have a nice selection of games to play around with in November and December.

[gepeto]

There is no way in hell (i don't care how much hype it has ) People will be lined up passed the first day to pay $700.00+ for a system.

People will have a wait and see attitude. I see it already systems bundles aren't moving. Gamestop sends out an email week 3 get an extra 40 percent tradein credit towards your purchase of an xbox bundle. Just like the psp bundle.

Talk about kill the industry. These tactics will difinately do it.
Only Fan boys pay that type of money out. Eb and Gamestop are in for a rude awakeing.

[smokehouse]

This is the same crap that happened with the PS2. First off, your “pre-order” isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on (other than a $50 credit). Do you know how many of those they’ve preordered? I’d be willing to say that for every 10 preorders, there is 1 console on launch day. This happens EVERY time. Second, you say they can’t force a bundle? Look at what Circuit City did with the PS2, they forced you to buy a shitty bundle and gave you no other option. Take it or leave it. My friends, I feel this is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to console launch insanity. It’s only going to get worse. Think of how it will be when the PS3 hits the streets….that’s scary.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

This sounds like what happened with the PStwo when there was shortage. Maybe some retailers are assuming there will be a shortage, so to cut down the amount of people pre-ordering units which won't surface, they are selling bundles instead.

In the long run it is just as beneficial to the retailer, but they don't have to deal with demand being higher than supply


I would guess that if you reserved a 360 and put a deposit on it, then you should be allowed to buy teh unit on it's own.

[jdc]

As was previously mentioned.....don't think that a deposit on a system guarantees you one. The person who offers full pop will get it before the person who has partial payment. You'll get one if there are any spare.

Do you know why stores offer bundles? Because the profit on a system sale is LESS then $2. My COST price on the launch Xbox was $497.50 per unit and the retail was $499.95 per unit (Canada). If someone comes in and smacks $500 down on the counter and just hauls away a console it's like the store hasn't sold a thing. Why bother? Ask any video game store. If you had the opportunity to not carry the consoles, you'd jump on it.

And no......I would not have forced you to take the bundle. I actually wouldn't have taken a preorder from you until a month before launch. If the systems turn out to be heavily allocated and your shop takes 100 preorders and Microsoft allocates 20 to them, 80 people are getting screwed. Too many things can go wrong.

[Trebuken]

Employee at EB told me that he believed the bundles were only for online purchases and that in store you would be able to buy whatever you want. EB assumes that most people shelling out a feww hundred dollars for a system is going to but at least a couple of games, and another controller (did you hear that you have to buy a cord and a battery for your controller, separately? $35). All the games in the bundle are first party games, which makes you wonder if there is some kind of deal going on.

While I would not choose the combination of games in the bundle, I do not think that anyone is being cheated. All those games seem solid enough for an opening day release. You have a couple months to put some extra cash on top of that $50 bucks so maybe you'll have to pass on buying some retro-games until then...yeah right...

Wonder if there will be a Gameboy Micro bundle...bet they will make more than $2 on this one.

Trebuken

[anagrama]

You really shoud get your Return key fixed, Anthony.

[Diatribal Deity]

Launch bundles, Holiday bundles, just-for-the hell of it bundles, guaranteed most of these stores will not let a system go out the door all by its lonesome.

Anthony, why don't you just call up or stop by and ask. If they say you can just pick up the system by itself get it in writing or noted on your pre-order slip. That way if they change their minds later you'll be covered.

Just a thought...

[Oobgarm]

Does your preorder guarantee you a system? Yes, barring any shortages from MS.




Can the company force you into buying a bunde? Sure.


Will they force a bundle? Wouldn't doubt it one bit.








If you want a bare-bones system, your best bet is getting it from a non-specialty store, but most of them don't take preorders. It's first come, first serve.







Sad, but thems the breaks.

[BrokenFlight]

What happens if they have a bundle with games you really want?

[bargora]

If you don't want a bundle, then do this.









Wait a few weeks or months to buy the system.












I doubt it would kill you.

[chrisbid]

If you don't want a bundle, then do this.









Wait a few weeks or months to buy the system.












I doubt it would kill you.


well said :)

if you want the practice to end, then dont support companies that deliberatly launch systems without enough to fill demand

[esquire]

Seeeing how you have not signed any type of a binding contract......









they can do whatever they want to......










just like you can cancel and get a refund on your deposit.

[Hep038]

You really shoud get your Return key fixed, Anthony.


LOL LOL LOL
I came into this thred looking for this post.

[Captain Wrong]

You really shoud get your Return key fixed, Anthony.

Can we force this after the fact?

[rbudrick]

Bundles are forced on people because retailers only make 2% on consoles. If someone pays with a credit card, the store kisses their 2% goodbye since all credit card companies charge retailers 2% on any purchases with their card.

Might be common knowledge, but just thought I'd mention it.

It's pretty bad when someone could buy 1000 consoles from a reseller and if they pay by credit card, the retailer makes nothing.

-Rob

[vincewy]

Don't be so sure about Best Buy, although they oficially don't sell bundle, when oyu go in on the launch morning, sales reps will shove all the accessories, warranty, and games right into your mouth, from my experience, most people came out (PS2, Xbox) spending near $500.

Given the choices on retail stores, I'd pick Target, no fuss.

[FABombjoy]

Why so eager to preorder anyway?

You get: The chance to maybe or maybe not purchase a product on it's launch day, depending on available stock.

They get: A $50 interest-free loan for an indeterminate amount of time, and a guarantee to sell out all launch-day inventory.

How exactly does the consumer win?

[s1lence]

Ahh, anthony once again you are spazzing over nothing. I asked my local game crazy and they told me they aren't selling bundle packs of the 360. You make it sound like they are going to put a gun to your head to buy the a bundle. Either way if they change what I was told thats one thing. You wouldnt have to buy it anyway and could get a refund. Besides I think your big screen could wait for it if buying a bundle is such a big problem. :hmm:

[Nature Boy]

First off, you can get your money back. So nobody is going to force you to do anything.

Secondly, shame on you for not waiting until they announced they were taking preorders and could specify what they were actually selling.

I personally don't see why the retailer should break the rules for you if they don't want to. If they're forced to buy the bundle they shouldn't have to break it up for someone when they can probably just sell it all to the next guy in line.

Lastly, I the "1 in 10" nonsense is just that: nonsense. I'm sure some retailers might do things like that but all of them certainly do not.

[Anthony1]

Look, I'm not spazzing out about this. It's not that big of a deal, but I'm curious about it.


I have $50 down on a 360, and I should just go in there and put another $381 on it, so that I have it completely paid off.


Only problem is... I'm broke.


At some point, I'm going to have to put some more down on it, and hopefully have the thing completely paid off a few weeks prior to launch, then on Midnight the eve of launch, I plan on picking up my 360 for $431 and not paying one red cent more.


I'm walking right out of the store, and going directly home to 4 XBOX 360 games that are going to be waiting for me, all rented from Blockbuster with the 2 different Gamer Passes.


It really isn't smart to buy any game right away anyways, when I know that I'm going to want to sample so many games, from the selection at launch.


This will allow time to go by and then maybe I see a game like Oblivion on sale at Circuit City for $44.99 (from $59.99). Maybe, just maybe, I'll actually have to purchase 1 or 2 games. But that's about it.


Primarily I'm going to be a renter. Why buy when you can lease?


You figure, if you were to buy 2 XBOX 360 games per month at $59.99, that would total to $129.28 or so


Well a 2 game Gamer's Pass from Blockbuster is $34.99 For almost the same amount of money per month, you could have 4 different Gamer's Passess going on at 4 different Blockbusters. Then instead of having 2 new games each month, you have 8 games that you can constantly exchange and update to any game that you want. I would probably use 4 of the games for constant switching, trying out every new game under the sun, and I would use the other 4, for the 4 games at that moment that most captivated me, that I really would want to hold onto till I finish the game or get all out of the game that I was hoping to get out of it.


Anyways, that's my strategy for this upcoming generation of games. Fuck paying $59.99. Fuck paying $54.99 or $49.99 or even $44.99 or $39.99 or $34.99.


Now if I see a game that I'm really, really, really into and it's $29.99, then maybe I can swing that.

[vincewy]

I don't have problem for stores (this doesn't come from Sony or MS) selling bundles actually, in fact, it's a good way to prevent people reselling them on eBay and stores need to make profits, my problem with EB bundles is the inability for you to pick games you want, it'll be perfectly reasonable, let's say a bundle (upgraded system with 2 games of your choice), but forcing 4+ games that will end up collecting dust at home is just excessive.

Ultimately consumers will decide if they'll accept such terms, just look at PSP launch, if the public doesn't budge, stores will have to give in. PS3 might be a different story, although I'll be surpirsed if tons of people will be shelling out $800+ for bundles, considering the current economy and abundance of cheap/decent games from current generation consoles.

[Anthony1]

Bundles are going to be somewhat of a hard sell this time.


Consoles typically never passed the $299 barrier, and now with the 360 being $399.99, which equals about $431 with tax, it makes it really hard to do bundles, because then the price goes through the stratosphere.


I mean $700, $800, that is just plain ridiculous.


I can understand the 360 premium package being $399.99, but I think a side effect of that is that people aren't going to be able to afford that many games with it, and they are going to have to forgo any accessories unless they are absolutely necessary.


I remember when the first XBOX came out. I was really lazy and didn't pre-order one early, so I had to deal with a bundle. I got it at this place called F.Y.E or something like that. It was a XBOX system, 3 games and a High Def A/V pack. I think I got Oddword, Project Gotham and Halo.

I think the grand total was like $520, and I remember leaving the store in amazement that I had just dropped that much dinero for a freaking video game machine and a few games.


But I was cool with it. The 3 games were all incredible games, and I absolutely needed the High Def cables. Plus I didn't want to spend the night in front of a Target store, which I had to do for the PS2 launch.



But when you start talking about $700 and $800 and $900, that is just freaking ridiculous. I know there are lots of wealthy people out there, that will fork it over, but there are tons of tons of people that can't touch that with a 20 foot stick. It's going to be interesting to see what develops.






By the way, do you guys think that when we get to late October that maybe would should have a seperate forum for the 360 launch? Just for a couple of months.

[DogP]

Yeah, $700-$800 is crazy! I definately won't be buying it until it's down under $200 (then renting most games). This sounds like another Neo Geo happening... awesome hardware, ridiculous price... Even with how invincible they think they are, I think the price could definately cause this system to flop... we do know no matter how cool a system is, price can make it flop... like the N-Gage did until they dropped the price (but that's a different discussion).

Hopefully Nintendo won't follow M$ and Sony with the high prices, and maybe it'll be their generation for a comeback. Just think, most of the big games have been coming out for all 3 of the big systems, why would someone pay $400+ for a 360 or PS3 when they could pay $200 (or whatever it'll be) and get the Revolution to play mostly the same stuff.

Or maybe it's time for the arcades to make their comeback... at $1/game they're about as affordable as these next gen systems... nah, that's wishful thinking. :P

DogP

[Nature Boy]

Bundles are going to be somewhat of a hard sell this time.

I totally disagree. The people that want the stuff will buy 'em.

[Neil Koch]

This is kind of off the topice, but the guy at the local EB Games said the only Xbox 360 games they're going to have at launch are the ones that are pre-ordered. WTF? Is this a chain-wide thing? If so, it's a dumb decision.

[kainemaxwell]

I remember when the first XBOX came out. I was really lazy and didn't pre-order one early, so I had to deal with a bundle. I got it at this place called F.Y.E or something like that. It was a XBOX system, 3 games and a High Def A/V pack. I think I got Oddword, Project Gotham and Halo.

Yeah my FYE (where I work) offers bundles for systems and when you do get a bundle you get a rebate for money back, I think it varies system to system- might be $50 or around that number. Not sure yet how we're doing bundles for the 360 yet, or even which version, probably the basic unit.

[GameSlaveGaz]

I work at Toys R Us and when the PStwo was in high demand, whenever we'd get a small shipment in my managers decided that they could only be sold if the customer bought a game or accessories or the extended warranty (or Buyer Protection Plan as we call it) and some guy screamed at me that it was illegal to do that and he's more than likely right. I pointed right to my manager who just happened to be standing there and said "it's her decision, talk to her about it"

Since you pre-orderd your 360 prior to the bundle's announcement, you shouldn't be obligated to buy the bundle if Game Crazy decides they're only selling it in bundles, and you can argue this til you're blue in the face and in order to shut you up the manager will comply. In my experience at TRU (I dunno how this goes at other retailers) when we do bundles (and this is mainly during season, although once in a while there'll be a random one throughout the year) they're purely optional. The only exception was that PStwo shortage. Retailers also reserve the right to limit console sales to one per customer, which we also had to do during the PStwo shortage (and my boyfriend who works at GameStop had the best story about that) and for a short time w/PSPs.

As for your pre-order, I dunno about Game Crazy's policies, but for GameStop (TRU very, very rarely does pre-sells on consoles due to the fact that we're not guaranteed enough units to cover presells. The last presell we did was for the GBA SP) you are definitely guaranteed a console. However, since Microsoft won't guarantee they'll ship enough units at launch, you're not guaranteed that you'll get your guaranteed 360 the day it comes out unless you pick it up as soon as you can. If they do run out of 360s before you can pick up your presell, you're still guaranteed a 360 as soon as the next shipment comes in.

But, yeah, like most people said, your best bet would be to go down to the Game Crazy you reserved your console at, tell them you're concerned about this bundle business, get confirmation about whether or not you need to buy the bundle, maybe discuss it with a manager if you have to (might as well get it over with now instead of causing a scene on launch day) and if you DO need to buy the bundle and the management won't let you get around it, then get your pre-sell refunded while it's still nice and early and pre-sell it somewhere else that won't do bundles. Or just wait.

And it's unfortunate, but we retailers are required to try to force you to spend as much money as possible. It's part of the corporate greed, but it's cleverly disguised as making sure that you leave the store with everything you need for a perfect gaming experience. That is why when you buy a new systems, cashiers will hound you about buying extra controllers, memory cards, batteries (if applicable), games and extended warranties. In some stores, if we don't ask, we could get written up for it. I swear. But think of it this way, it saves you a return trip cuz we're reminding you to get those extra accessories now. Plus, it makes the greedy company more money, which means we'll have more hours and I'll be scheduled longer and make more money so I can buy myself more video games. It's a sad fact to admit, but money DOES make the world go round.

And why do you think retailers NEVER sell a system lower than the MSRP (unless it's used)? Someone already mentioned that companies only make a 2% profit on each system sold. It's true. That's why you never see a sale on a console, no coupons ever work for them (except for very, very, very, very rare ones, I once got one that worked on the NES edition GBA SP and that SP alone) and employees don't even get employee discounts on them. It's all about greed.


Working in retail really opens your eyes to the dirty truth. If you have any more questions about the greedy corporations, just ask, I can probably add my insight. LOL