What's all this I hear about Nintendo Forgetting it's Fans?

[Cmtz]

On every board I've gone these past two days. I've heard that Nintendo has forgotten its fans. I don't understand this. Nintendo is still making games from everyone’s favorite franchisees Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Mario Kart, etc. They continue two work the 2-D and 3-D market. Now with the revolution they will bring back old favorites for everyone (even young kids) to enjoy. Where it is that Nintendo forgot its fans?

[njiska]

I wouldn't say they're forgeting their fans. Just that they're pissing them off. The hold outs of Nintendo love were able to justify their existence by claiming that Zedla is coming soon. Then Nintendo goes and slaps a ridiulously long delay on it. Now there is nothing big coming to the Gamecube until next year. Possibly even after the Japanese PS3 launch.

So as a fan of Nintendo, i'm just pissed.

[ubersaurus]

I wouldn't say they're forgeting their fans. Just that they're pissing them off. The hold outs of Nintendo love were able to justify their existence by claiming that Zedla is coming soon. Then Nintendo goes and slaps a ridiulously long delay on it. Now there is nothing big coming to the Gamecube until next year. Possibly even after the Japanese PS3 launch.

So as a fan of Nintendo, i'm just pissed.

Battalion Wars?
Fire Emblem?
Mario Strikers?

[njiska]

I wouldn't say they're forgeting their fans. Just that they're pissing them off. The hold outs of Nintendo love were able to justify their existence by claiming that Zedla is coming soon. Then Nintendo goes and slaps a ridiulously long delay on it. Now there is nothing big coming to the Gamecube until next year. Possibly even after the Japanese PS3 launch.

So as a fan of Nintendo, i'm just pissed.

Battalion Wars?
Fire Emblem?
Mario Strikers?

Yes those are great titles. But they don't have the umph of Zelda and the Zelda delay is the only thing they've done that i have had trouble with.

Battalion Wars and Fire Emblem have there own niches, Mario striker's, while looking really good, is still just another Mario whoring game, Zelda is the only game coming for the GC with across the board interest.

Either way the question of this thread was about why people think Nintendo is abandoning their fans and honestly i don't think they are.

[davidbrit2]

I think I'll go play a little Kid Icarus on my Gamecube.

OH WAIT.

[nintendan]

*loans DavidBrit2 his GameBoy Player for his Gamecube*

*also loans his GameBoy cart Kid Icarus to him*

:-) Well, what are you waiting for? Go play Kid Icarus on your Gamecube!

dan

[Griking]

nevermind

[davidbrit2]

*loans DavidBrit2 his GameBoy Player for his Gamecube*

*also loans his GameBoy cart Kid Icarus to him*

:-) Well, what are you waiting for? Go play Kid Icarus on your Gamecube!

dan

Hey, yeah, let's just forget about everything made after 1992 or thereabouts. Wouldn't want any new material or anything.

[Hams]

Im happy to wait for the nintendo stamp of approval. I would rather have it be delayed and it be a true classic, than have it filled with glitches & dissapoint. Dont people have any patience? The problem with most games is developers rush to release leaving the software full of gaping holes or lacking in substance & depth. Its going to be awesome.

Hams

[hezeuschrist]

I think we're all just forgetting how long we really waited between great releases back in the day. I remember playing the hell out of games on the NES and SNES because there wasn't anything else out, or I couldn't afford it.

We get great releases in a fairly constant flow from all developers and publishers, Nintendo is hard at work on a slew of titles for both the Gamecube and the DS. And even though they said it wasn't going to happen, the GBA is falling by the wayside with nothing too interesting on the horizon.

But, if you're looking for gaming in ONE spot, you're going to wait a long time between triple A titles from any single developer.

[goatdan]

The GameCube is dead and putting out Zelda on it just ensures that the Revolution will arrive stillborn too.

Maybe Nintendo will officially decide to hell with the hardcores and lets try to go mainstream, but I doubt it. They'll listen to their fans and put Zelda out on the GameCube, and then the Revolution will launch with some "great" titles like Luigi's Mansion 2, Pokemon RPG and Mario Golf 3 hat will be nice, but nothing that will attract any non-hardcore Nintendo fan attention.

It's sad, really. I really like my GameCube, but Nintendo is just digging themselves a future home console grave right now.

[hezeuschrist]

An actual pokemon game on a console would move systems, something fierce. No more of that battle shit they've been doing, but an actual RPG would really push systems on launch.

But, that's not who they need to push the systems to, they need to have Metroid Prime 3 and Mario 128 available for launch, and they'll have no trouble making a footprint in the next gen.

[njiska]

The GameCube is dead and putting out Zelda on it just ensures that the Revolution will arrive stillborn too.

Maybe Nintendo will officially decide to hell with the hardcores and lets try to go mainstream, but I doubt it. They'll listen to their fans and put Zelda out on the GameCube, and then the Revolution will launch with some "great" titles like Luigi's Mansion 2, Pokemon RPG and Mario Golf 3 hat will be nice, but nothing that will attract any non-hardcore Nintendo fan attention.

It's sad, really. I really like my GameCube, but Nintendo is just digging themselves a future home console grave right now.

Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan. I know i've told you this before but, damn it, Zelda cannot lanuch as a Revolution title, it's just insane. You can't build up something and then pull it only to release it on a different system. Yes most of the people buying Zelda will be buying revolutions anyways, but the fact is it's an insult to the fans and right now the fans are all Nintendo has. Casual gamers aren't in their camp in the console world and they know it. If you think launching Zelda on the revolution will draw mainstream blood you're completely out of your fucking mind. The only move that makes sense, which is also why i think they're delaying Zelda, is to release it as a GC game, at the revolutions launch.

That would allow gamecube owners to not get burned, non-gamecube owners to have something they can play on their new system that will hopefully last 5 years (why would they buy a dead system to play it on?) and not pissoff the people who love backwards compatibility and want to get rid of thier GC as soon as they get their Revolution.

However i'd much rather see them just release some solid Revolution titles, rather then hold back a game that is in insanely high demand. Like you said Nintendo needs to go mainstream and they can't do it like this. They need good original, adult targeted titles to do that. I think it's best you hold off on claiming they need Zelda at launch until after we see what they'll have at launch. Hopefully we'll find that out at TGS.

[hezeuschrist]

If anything, release a Zelda bundle when the Revolution comes out. If they're going to coincide the Gamecube release of the game with the release of the revolution, may as well include the gamecube game with the revolution and obviously sell it by itself. It wouldn't help move a ton of systems, but would say a big thank you to the people that were already going to buy a revolution anyways.

[sabre2922]

Nintendo is hard at work on a slew of titles for both the Gamecube < such as?

Im sorry but the truth is the gamecube is all but dead its basically on lifesupport right now :(

Hell even EA has stopped porting many of there cross-platform games to the cube if that doesnt prove the state of the system I dont know what does.

Ill be very surprised if the big N does release Zelda on GC I think there is a 50/50 chance it could be on GC or Revolution.

[swlovinist]

I was quoted at saying this very thing. Honestly, I am probably one of the biggest Nintendo fans here(complete N64 collection, one game from a liscensed Nes set). THEY HAVE FORGOTTEN ME. I am not 12. I am not into Pokemon. I dont give a rats ass about Mario in a Sporting events. I dont care about Mario in Board Games. After the SNES, it is like they handed off the video games for adults to the Playstation and then Microsoft. Yes, they have Zelda. Yes, they have Metroid(good series). Where are the the games for older people? Nintendo has forgotten that adults(who were then the people who made them the millions of dollars) like games too, and would love for Nintendo to remember them. I might add that if Nintnedo is so good at making games for adults, why are they a distant third, in game sales for consoles? Nintendo made a grave mistake making a the Gamecube a kiddie system. Although the Cube has some good games adults like, again it missed out on a lucrative market. For all I care anymore, either the Revolution is going to get it right or you can possibly kiss them goodbye making console hardware.

[sabre2922]

You can't build up something and then pull it only to release it on a different system.< HMM yeah that NEVER happens :roll: Perfect dark Zero anyone?

[hezeuschrist]

You can't build up something and then pull it only to release it on a different system.< HMM yeah that NEVER happens :roll: Perfect dark Zero anyone?

Perfect Dark Zero was always a concept, there was never anything concrete about it on the Xbox. Shit, there's nothing concrete on it on the X360 and it's supposed to be out in 2 months.

I played Twilight Princess along with 50,000 other people in May. What they have done so far is very polished, and it will not make its way to the Revolution. If it's released as a revolution game, I'll buy you a copy.

And yes, Nintendo is working on a lot of titles for the gamecube. According to the Nintendo website, they're working on 12 titles. There are only 40 Nintendo titles already released for the system (including Mario Baseball), so that's really not a small amount for the company to be working on. I don't really give a shit about any of the titles other than Zelda, but that's not the point. They're still supporting the system, and will continue to do so likely through the year-end of 2006.

There's pretty much no 3rd party support, but that's no different tune than we've heard for the past 4 years anyways.

Yeah, Zelda is going to be the last worthwhile release for the system, but we've all known that. Just because they've moved it back 6 months doesn't mean it's going to the new system.

[goatdan]

Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan. I know i've told you this before but, damn it, Zelda cannot lanuch as a Revolution title, it's just insane. You can't build up something and then pull it only to release it on a different system. Yes most of the people buying Zelda will be buying revolutions anyways, but the fact is it's an insult to the fans and right now the fans are all Nintendo has. Casual gamers aren't in their camp in the console world and they know it. If you think launching Zelda on the revolution will draw mainstream blood you're completely out of your fucking mind. The only move that makes sense, which is also why i think they're delaying Zelda, is to release it as a GC game, at the revolutions launch.

I mean this in NO WAY as an insult, but it is fans like you that Nintendo caters too, and that is why I COMPLETLEY think that Nintendo will stupidly release Zelda for the GameCube. It might be an "insult" to the fans of the GameCube right now if the game doesn't come out for it, but Nintendo needs to move beyond the fans and go mainstream.

Why you think Zelda isn't mainstream is beyond me. It's about Nintendo's only true mainstream console title. Oh sure, there is Mario and Pokemon and Pikmin and random other Nintendo kiddy fair that does nothing to make someone over 15 that isn't already a Nintendo fan want their systems, but Zelda is the only thing that regular old gamers go, "Hell yeah!" too.

But Nintendo has proven time and time again that keeping their kiddy image and hardcore fans is vastly more important to them than actually branching out and possibly gaining market share.


That would allow gamecube owners to not get burned, non-gamecube owners to have something they can play on their new system that will hopefully last 5 years (why would they buy a dead system to play it on?) and not pissoff the people who love backwards compatibility and want to get rid of thier GC as soon as they get their Revolution.

Yes, it would look almost as good as the pathetic GameCube launch if the best title for the Revolution is a game that you can also play on the GameCube. That would've been like launching the PS2 and releasing Metal Gear Solid 2 on the PS1 that same day. It would've been stupid for Sony to do that if they wanted market share.

Again though, Nintendo cares more for the hardcore folks. Zelda will be a GameCube title.


However i'd much rather see them just release some solid Revolution titles, rather then hold back a game that is in insanely high demand. Like you said Nintendo needs to go mainstream and they can't do it like this. They need good original, adult targeted titles to do that. I think it's best you hold off on claiming they need Zelda at launch until after we see what they'll have at launch. Hopefully we'll find that out at TGS.

Well, juding by their last launch and the fact that they have had absolutely nothing to say about it, I'm not exactly holding my breath here.


I was quoted at saying this very thing. Honestly, I am probably one of the biggest Nintendo fans here(complete N64 collection, one game from a liscensed Nes set). THEY HAVE FORGOTTEN ME. I am not 12. I am not into Pokemon. I dont give a rats ass about Mario in a Sporting events. I dont care about Mario in Board Games.

I'm totally in the same boat as you. I bet that Nintendo fans on these boards will start to think that I'm as biased as Sony fans tend to think that I have been in the past when talking about the PSP. But I'm not. In fact, I really do love the GameCube -- I have two -- but the fact that it is the most mismanaged console since the Jaguar really bugs me.

And Nintendo isn't suddenly going to "find" us again sadly. The presentations that they have prove it time and time again for me. Reggie talking about kicking ass, them talking about their history, hyping something big that they can't reveal yet... It's always the same, and it makes the hardcore Nintendo fans jump around and say Nintendo is really coming back "this time." But mainstream gamers look at all the Nintendo fans jumping around and wonder what the big deal is. Nintendo has yet to show those people ANYTHING.

And if anyone reading this wants to tell me how Nintendo has reached out to casual console fans in the past two years, I'd love to hear it. Yes, Metroid was a great thing but Metroid 2 didn't do anything else huge. Beyond that...

I would love to hear someone defend their latest GameCube strategy that seems to involve them porting popular Game Boy Advance games to the GameCube.


After the SNES, it is like they handed off the video games for adults to the Playstation and then Microsoft. Yes, they have Zelda. Yes, they have Metroid(good series). Where are the the games for older people? Nintendo has forgotten that adults(who were then the people who made them the millions of dollars) like games too, and would love for Nintendo to remember them. I might add that if Nintnedo is so good at making games for adults, why are they a distant third, in game sales for consoles? Nintendo made a grave mistake making a the Gamecube a kiddie system. Although the Cube has some good games adults like, again it missed out on a lucrative market. For all I care anymore, either the Revolution is going to get it right or you can possibly kiss them goodbye making console hardware.

I know that I'll still continue to have people on these boards fight me on this but...

You'll be able to tell if Nintendo will get everything with the Revolution right just based on if Zelda comes out for the Cube or the Revolution. If it comes out for the Revolution, with Nintendo therefore effectively saying "screw you hardcore fans, you'll have to wait, we need this," Nintendo has a chance of getting back into it. If the much more likely situation comes out where Zelda is launched around the launch of the PS3, no one is going to notice it or care, and when the Revolution comes out, no one is going to care about Mario's Coffee Party, Super-Duper Smash Brothers Kick-Ass, Pikmin 3 and Luigi's Mansion 2 being launch titles... no one that is except the hardcore Nintendo fan.

[njiska]

I mean this in NO WAY as an insult, but it is fans like you that Nintendo caters too, and that is why I COMPLETLEY think that Nintendo will stupidly release Zelda for the GameCube. It might be an "insult" to the fans of the GameCube right now if the game doesn't come out for it, but Nintendo needs to move beyond the fans and go mainstream.

I do not take it as an insult and i am not one of the Nintendo fans you were talking about. I haven't been since the coming of the Dreamcast. But i do know the type of people you're talking about. Nintendo catering to them is what cost Nintendo everything it once had. The problem, i feel, is that they're too far gone now to be able to survive without them. Nintendo can't just shuck the fans and try to gain a new audience, because new people aren't just gonna join the Revolution. They need the fans or they have nothing.


Why you think Zelda isn't mainstream is beyond me. It's about Nintendo's only true mainstream console title. Oh sure, there is Mario and Pokemon and Pikmin and random other Nintendo kiddy fair that does nothing to make someone over 15 that isn't already a Nintendo fan want their systems, but Zelda is the only thing that regular old gamers go, "Hell yeah!" too.

That's very true and i've been thinking about that ever since i said it. Zelda is the most mainstream of Nintendo's franchises, but on one game does not a console support itself. Zelda alone is not enough get the mainstream gamers on board with Nintendo. They need a more total experience to capture that part of the market. If the revolution launches with Zelda, a pokemon game, Mario Golf 3 and whatever the hell else you said, it's not going to look as good as the MS or Sony lineup to the mainstream audience and most people can't afford multiple systems at launch. That's what i was trying to get at.


But Nintendo has proven time and time again that keeping their kiddy image and hardcore fans is vastly more important to them than actually branching out and possibly gaining market share.

no arguement there, Nintendo is fucking up. I've been saying that ever since the BBA fiasco.


Yes, it would look almost as good as the pathetic GameCube launch if the best title for the Revolution is a game that you can also play on the GameCube. That would've been like launching the PS2 and releasing Metal Gear Solid 2 on the PS1 that same day. It would've been stupid for Sony to do that if they wanted market share.

Look you can't honestly tell me it's good for business to pull a title that big from a system, especially since we were all expecting it this fall, and not expect massive backlash from gamers and more importantly, the gaming media. Releasing it with the Revolution is not a bad idea if Nintendo actually forms a decent launch line up. It fit's with their whole, one system for all Nintendo games, mindset.


Well, juding by their last launch and the fact that they have had absolutely nothing to say about it, I'm not exactly holding my breath here.

If there's one thing we defintely see eye to eye on it's that Nintendo clearly has no idea what they're doing in the console world. The GC launch was the biggest embarassment the company has had to endure since the Virtual Boy.



I was quoted at saying this very thing. Honestly, I am probably one of the biggest Nintendo fans here(complete N64 collection, one game from a liscensed Nes set). THEY HAVE FORGOTTEN ME. I am not 12. I am not into Pokemon. I dont give a rats ass about Mario in a Sporting events. I dont care about Mario in Board Games.

I'm totally in the same boat as you. I bet that Nintendo fans on these boards will start to think that I'm as biased as Sony fans tend to think that I have been in the past when talking about the PSP. But I'm not. In fact, I really do love the GameCube -- I have two -- but the fact that it is the most mismanaged console since the Jaguar really bugs me.

Again i have to agree with you Dan. The GC has been horribly mismanaged. Oh and I hope no one here is gonna think you're biased against Nintendo because anyone who's read you're posts should no that you damn well aren't. Although you are defintely in bed with the blue hedgehog LOL.

Times change and Nintendo hasn't. I wouldn't say that they've forgotten their fans, just that their fans have grown up and are ready to move on. If you were a Seseme ST. fan as a child you wouldn't expect it to mature as you did would you? No, you out grow it and that's what's happening with Nintendo fans.


And if anyone reading this wants to tell me how Nintendo has reached out to casual console fans in the past two years, I'd love to hear it. Yes, Metroid was a great thing but Metroid 2 didn't do anything else huge. Beyond that...

The only thing that stands out in my mind is the Capcom 5. Nintendo had some kick ass exclusives lined up but then they just sort of let shit fall apart and BOOM, now none of the Capcom 5 are exclusive, except for P.N.03 and it's garbage so it doesn't really matter.


I would love to hear someone defend their latest GameCube strategy that seems to involve them porting popular Game Boy Advance games to the GameCube.

No one can do that and if they can they're in league with Satan. LOL


I know that I'll still continue to have people on these boards fight me on this but...

You'll be able to tell if Nintendo will get everything with the Revolution right just based on if Zelda comes out for the Cube or the Revolution. If it comes out for the Revolution, with Nintendo therefore effectively saying "screw you hardcore fans, you'll have to wait, we need this," Nintendo has a chance of getting back into it. If the much more likely situation comes out where Zelda is launched around the launch of the PS3, no one is going to notice it or care, and when the Revolution comes out, no one is going to care about Mario's Coffee Party, Super-Duper Smash Brothers Kick-Ass, Pikmin 3 and Luigi's Mansion 2 being launch titles... no one that is except the hardcore Nintendo fan.

Dan i think i'll put an end to arguing on this matter right now by saying:

I think it's suicide for them to release Zelda on the Revolution. You think it's the only chance the revolution has. Let's just bide our time and see what happens. Sound like a deal, mate?

[Hollenscythe]

My biggest gripe is that PlayStation 2 owners got 3 Jak games and 3 Ratchet & Clank games. GameCube owners got one half-assed Mario game. How is more Mario games not a priority? I don't mean Mario Tennis/Baseball/Typing/Quilting or any of that shit, I mean real ones. God, remember the SNES - there was at least a new Mario game every year and each was better and more amazing than the first. Don't tell me people don't want that.

I could go on forever, but I won't waste my breath. Releasing Zelda for GameCube with Revolution on its heels is a mistake, IMO. The game has a huge following and is pretty much one of the only franchises they have that still sends a ripple affect through the entire gaming community (including the people who jumped ship on the N64 or GCN). Why do you think Europe got LOZ: Minish Cap before the US? So it didn't detract from the DS launch - they pretty much sucked the air out of the GBA so that their dreadful launch looked more appealing. So why would Nintendo give people a reason to be happy with their GameCube when they should be making sure everyone wants the Revolution instead? I disagree with anyone who says it wouldn't do better on the Rev. There is nothing to be gained from turning everyone's attention to your dead product while you're trying to build hype for your new one.

People say Nintendo is looking after fans by putting it on GCN? I say they're screwing them over. GCN is dead. It is LONG dead - it's never going to be anything more than it is right now, if any systems are sold by Zelda, they're dead systems. All that momentum being pushed straight toward a dead end. If Nintendo cares about fans it should do what everyone else has done and abandon the GCN. Every new game I see on the system is less money to do the Revolution right. If Nintendo cares about fans they won't try to spread themselves over one new system (that will desperately need focus) and one dead one. I'd rather not see Twilight Princess for another 18 months than see it on the Cube. This year was one thing, mid way into next year is another thing all together. I mean really.

Bah, whatever.

[nintendan]

When it's eventually released on the gamecube, NONE OF US will refuse to buy it. We'll all buy it, and enjoy it.

Some of us will play it on the backwards compatible Rev, others will enjoy it on the Cube.

I dont like the delay like everyone else, but in the end, it will be worth it.

It will be like playing Ocarina all over again for the first time.

Do you guys remember doing that? I was addicted to Ocarina during my first run-through of that game.

dan

[Cryomancer]

Where's my damn Mother 1+2 in the US, and Mother 3?

That's really my only complaint.

[Rev. Link]

Wow. I thought this forum had intelligent members, but here I see the same kind of "Nintendo is kiddy" garbage that you see at places like GameFAQs. Nintendo should say "screw you" to its hardcore fans? What kind of lunacy is that? I'm sorry, I don't mean to be harsh, but anyone who honestly believes that is an idiot.

You want to know why I'm a Nintendo fan? It's because they don't cater to the gaming mainstream. These so-called mainstream gamers of today are the same jerks who used to rip on all of us in grade school for liking games. They didn't start to like games until Sony started telling them it was okay to, that games are "cool". Now they're the snobs of the gaming community, only liking the "edgy" ultra-violent stuff. Or Madden. With them it's all about the status ("I'm playing the new GTA") and not whether they're actually having any fun. The mainstream can kiss my ass.

As for the Revolution, we still don't know enough yet to truly pass judgement. We can look forward to it, or we can be skeptical, but any stance we have just yet is pure speculation.

There are still a handful of decent looking GC games coming out, and of course there's Zelda. I don't think there's a single person out there who was looking forward to that game that wasn't at least a little disappointed with the delay, but it's not the end of the world. C'mon, Nintendo's notorious for pushing back it's biggest titles. Besides, wouldn't you rather they actually make the game as good as it can be instead of releasing it with bugs and glitches (who remembers Vice City?)?

Finally, let's not forget the DS. It had a slow start, but it's quickly been picking up steam. Not only are there a number of promising titles on the horizon, but Nintendo is finally giving its fans online play. Not only online play, but free online play! Now how is that "forgetting their fans"?

[Push Upstairs]

I was quoted at saying this very thing. Honestly, I am probably one of the biggest Nintendo fans here(complete N64 collection, one game from a liscensed Nes set). THEY HAVE FORGOTTEN ME. I am not 12. I am not into Pokemon. I dont give a rats ass about Mario in a Sporting events. I dont care about Mario in Board Games. After the SNES, it is like they handed off the video games for adults to the Playstation and then Microsoft. Yes, they have Zelda. Yes, they have Metroid(good series). Where are the the games for older people? Nintendo has forgotten that adults(who were then the people who made them the millions of dollars) like games too, and would love for Nintendo to remember them. I might add that if Nintnedo is so good at making games for adults, why are they a distant third, in game sales for consoles? Nintendo made a grave mistake making a the Gamecube a kiddie system. Although the Cube has some good games adults like, again it missed out on a lucrative market. For all I care anymore, either the Revolution is going to get it right or you can possibly kiss them goodbye making console hardware.

That is all that really needs to be said right here.

[goatdan]

The problem, i feel, is that they're too far gone now to be able to survive without them. Nintendo can't just shuck the fans and try to gain a new audience, because new people aren't just gonna join the Revolution. They need the fans or they have nothing.

That, in a nutshell, is the exact problem. Nintendo can't possibly screw over the fans, but if they don't Nintendo can't go mainstream. It's one hell of a catch 22.


That's very true and i've been thinking about that ever since i said it. Zelda is the most mainstream of Nintendo's franchises, but on one game does not a console support itself. Zelda alone is not enough get the mainstream gamers on board with Nintendo. They need a more total experience to capture that part of the market. If the revolution launches with Zelda, a pokemon game, Mario Golf 3 and whatever the hell else you said, it's not going to look as good as the MS or Sony lineup to the mainstream audience and most people can't afford multiple systems at launch. That's what i was trying to get at.

Let's say that it's a Mario platformer, Zelda and Metroid. If I, as a third party, saw that line-up, I'd be much more likely to start working on something new. If I saw Mario Platformer and Metroid though... eh. Zelda is their huge property. Metroid is big, but it can't stand by itself like a game like Halo did.


Look you can't honestly tell me it's good for business to pull a title that big from a system, especially since we were all expecting it this fall, and not expect massive backlash from gamers and more importantly, the gaming media. Releasing it with the Revolution is not a bad idea if Nintendo actually forms a decent launch line up. It fit's with their whole, one system for all Nintendo games, mindset.

It isn't good business for them to delay it this year. By doing so, instead of making is a Christmas thing, two of the newer systems will for sure be out by the next Christmas, and it won't have a chance at selling except to the people hanging onto their GameCubes specifically for it.

And since there is about 1 or 2 GameCube games coming out per month right now, that number is sure to decrease.


If there's one thing we defintely see eye to eye on it's that Nintendo clearly has no idea what they're doing in the console world. The GC launch was the biggest embarassment the company has had to endure since the Virtual Boy.

Agreed. It really helped bury a system that otherwise could've been a very big contender.


Again i have to agree with you Dan. The GC has been horribly mismanaged. Oh and I hope no one here is gonna think you're biased against Nintendo because anyone who's read you're posts should no that you damn well aren't. Although you are defintely in bed with the blue hedgehog LOL.

Heh, maybe I just look like I'm such a Sega lover because I know too much of the real story of the Dreamcast ;) In fact, before the 'Cast, I never owned another Sega system...


Times change and Nintendo hasn't. I wouldn't say that they've forgotten their fans, just that their fans have grown up and are ready to move on. If you were a Seseme ST. fan as a child you wouldn't expect it to mature as you did would you? No, you out grow it and that's what's happening with Nintendo fans.

Precisely. The games have gotten deeper, but the look / feel is still there on nearly all of them, and that is where the problem lies.


The only thing that stands out in my mind is the Capcom 5. Nintendo had some kick ass exclusives lined up but then they just sort of let shit fall apart and BOOM, now none of the Capcom 5 are exclusive, except for P.N.03 and it's garbage so it doesn't really matter.

Yes, and for the exact reason that you just pointed out, I figured that would be a bad example of a way they've gotten older gamers. RE4 would've been really nice at Christmastime last year, but since they missed that, Nintendo couldn't even sell GameCubes with 2 controllers and Mario Kart for $99.00, while Xbox's and PS2's with no extras couldn't be kept in stock.


Dan i think i'll put an end to arguing on this matter right now by saying:

I think it's suicide for them to release Zelda on the Revolution. You think it's the only chance the revolution has. Let's just bide our time and see what happens. Sound like a deal, mate?

Fair 'nuff.

Although I do agree with you on what'll happen. I just think it's suicidal. ;)

[Nature Boy]

THEY HAVE FORGOTTEN ME.

I don't really think of it as being forgotten, I think of it more like they focus on a certain demographic and don't bother with any other. You've simply moved out of one demographic and into another.

So have I for that matter. I was also a huge Nintendo fan, but I'm more likely to pick up a 360 or PS3 on launch day than I am a Rev. As much as I love their games, their competition is making *more* games and giving me better third party options.

All this Zelda being a Rev launch title is rubbish, but I guarantee you I'll be buying the game if it's a cube title, and passing on it if it's a Rev title. A Zelda game would certainly sell systems, but it won't sell nearly as many copies on a smaller installed base.

[Jumpman Jr.]

I was quoted at saying this very thing. Honestly, I am probably one of the biggest Nintendo fans here(complete N64 collection, one game from a liscensed Nes set). THEY HAVE FORGOTTEN ME. I am not 12. I am not into Pokemon. I dont give a rats ass about Mario in a Sporting events. I dont care about Mario in Board Games. After the SNES, it is like they handed off the video games for adults to the Playstation and then Microsoft. Yes, they have Zelda. Yes, they have Metroid(good series). Where are the the games for older people? Nintendo has forgotten that adults(who were then the people who made them the millions of dollars) like games too, and would love for Nintendo to remember them. I might add that if Nintnedo is so good at making games for adults, why are they a distant third, in game sales for consoles? Nintendo made a grave mistake making a the Gamecube a kiddie system. Although the Cube has some good games adults like, again it missed out on a lucrative market. For all I care anymore, either the Revolution is going to get it right or you can possibly kiss them goodbye making console hardware.

That is all that really needs to be said right here.

I agree as well.
Common, where are our Mario Adventure series'? You can't tell me Sunshine counts as a Mario Adventure because that is completely different. I'm a huge Nintendo fan too (going for complete NES, N64 and SNES sets) and I feel as though they've forgotten me. I want a good Zelda game (looks like were getting one) and a good Mario adventure game. Not some stupid game where Mario plays Baseball.

[YoshiM]

I think the new Zelda will be like the two Oracle games for GBC: it will have content that can only be accessed if you play it on the new system. In this case, the Revolution. They've already put the work into making in a Gamecube game so if they were to make it a Rev. exclusive, I'll bet they'd have to axe the whole thing. That would be a waste and possibly suicidal.

I think Nintendo is trying to play to the fans...just not on the Gamecube. The latest Nintendo Power has a lot of coverage on DS games and damn do they look tasty. Lost in Blue alone makes me want to buy a DS. The big N is saying they are innovators and they are going out of their way to prove it. Too bad it's not on the GC.

@Hollenscythe: A Mario game every year? I'm assuming you are talking about bonefide classic Mario (ie platforming) due to your no "Mario Tennis/Baseball/Typing/Quilting" comment. There are only two (not including All Stars): World and Yoshi's Island, though it could be argued that the latter isn't a "true" Mario game. The rest use the franchise name (Mario Kart, Mario Paint, Mario RPG, Mario Early Years series, Mario is Missing, Mario's Time Machine...any other Mario games I'm missing?). Even on the NES the games came out in 1985, 1988 and 1990 consecutively. :P :D

I have to agree with Rev. Link. I'm up to here (holds hand up to eyebrow) with the mentality that the Cube is "teh Kiddy". Is the library flowing with Rugrats, Sesame Street, Dora, etc. games? No. That's what I consider "kiddy": stuff geared specifically to children. If anything Nintendo is primarily "family friendly": games that can be picked up by kids but are still challenging and fun for adults. This has been their schtick since day one. I'm still waiting for good, solid definition of what is "kiddy" as no one in memory has given me anything really better than "not Nintendo".

[njiska]

Whole piss load of good stuff

Yup, no arguement here. :)

[buttasuperb]

Console wise, Nintendo hasn't been good since the SNES.

3D adventure games are for the most part completely boring to me. So the new Marios, Zeldas, Metroids, etc. do not appeal to me whatsoever. They suck.

Just give me a Mario game where I run to the right and jump on shit, find secrets, etc. And don't tell me about the upcoming DS title. That game looks like shit. Do you know how badass a 2D Mario game on the GC would be? Badass enough to make me buy a GC, that's for sure. But nope, we'll give Mario a water pack in a 3D world. Stupid.

[FurinkanianFrood]

mainstream gamers of today are the same jerks


They are jerks, though "mainstream gamers" is technically an oxymoron IMO.

Well, here we are. If Nintendo doesn't surprise us with a killer launch lineup for Rev, (which I doubt) true gaming will soon belimited to consoles of the past.

Nintendo is catering to hardcore Nintendo worshippers, not to the hardcore gamer. They are still making some pretty fun stuff when they want to though, which is better than what companies that completely sold out (Konami for instance) are doing on home consoles.

Nintendo will be around for some time of course, but unless something happens very soon it will continue to wane.

I haven't really been a Nintendo fan since the days of the SNES. After expanding my Genny and PCE collections, I don't play the SNES much anymore either, as had a relatively weak library for that era. I bought an N64 long after it was dead for just a few games. I really do think that Nintendo did know how to convert their series to 3D properly back then. SMario 64 and Zelda:OOT both hold up very well IMO.

I bought a GC at launch, and intend to hold on to it. I personally couldn't get into WWaker, not because of the art style, but because the gameplay doesn't flow at all. It's painful to play, and even more painful to admit it out loud.

What was so abysmal about the GC launch compared to other console launches. It had better launch titles than many other systems (including SNES, PS, PS2, cough) systems. IMO, the DC, Genny, NES were worth getting early on, and most others, knowing what I know now, were ones to wait on.

I don't like how Metroid went 3D, though it was inevitable, and I don't think there was any hope of it translating to 3D in a way that I would personally appreciate anyway, so I'm not bitter about it. They did as well as anyone could, and appreciate that.

I still think Mario Sunshine is decent, although the backpack made the controls over-complex for a Mario game.

Some the games that were going to be GC exclusive from Capcom are still much better on GC BTW. The PS2 revs look pretty awful in comparison, and the GC controller is better. I would just as soon have them on GC, as there is virtually nothing truly worthwhile on PS2 (keep lying to yourself about the "great PS2 library" folks, its too late to turn back anyway).

Sony AKA the destroyer of our hobby appears have won. Some fools here and elsewhere have helped them, and I guess I will never understand why. I owned 5 !@#$% Sony consoles before I realized we had been fooled. But ever since then I have been talking to a brick wall.

MIcrosoft's whole two tier bullshit has nearly made me hate the 360 almost as much as I hate Winblows. How dare they....

Dreamcast, in effect, is probably the last great console.

Simple to pick up and play, difficult to master is what video games should be. They have strayed so far from that that I can scarcely bring myself to call many new releases games at all.

People want what the idiot box or the idiot-net or the idiot standing over there tells them is cool.

Now we can only pray for a miracle, as the reality sets in that consumers are so brainwashed now that they will actually buy the psychotically overpriced set top boxes that threaten to destroy the Rev.

There are no companies good enough to be a fanboy of anymore IMO. I am tired of pretending.

Good games live forever, even if only a scant few are yet to be born. I shall have to take comfort in that.

[Cmosfm]

Nintendo IS making some huge mistakes, I agree, while there has been 3 Jak games and 3 Ratchet & Clank games, we did get 1 new Mario that has supposedly been in development since the N64 days.

I'm a very big Nintendo fan, I love all their consoles and gadgets and gizmos and stuff, but when it comes down to it, they are nothing without the games! There just aren't enough, I just completed Donkey Kong Jungle Beat yesterday...took 3 hours. Donkey Konga was ok but got old fast and Konga 2 was worthless. Mario Baseball/Tennis/Party/Strikers/DDR/Kart/Golf, While all interesting concepts if you are into that particular sport/hobby, they aren't a new Mario game. I want a new Mario game! Where's my fucking Yoshi Game? I want Kirby that doesn't race! I don't want a generic FPS Metroid! DONKEY KONG STOP PLAYING THE FUCKING BONGOS AND CHASE DOWN MARIO AGAIN OR HEAD BACK TO THE COUNTRY AND KILL KREMLINS!

I loved the old games, but I don't expect everything to stay 2D, it won't happen and I don't want it to. But I'd like the same tried and true formula to be placed in the new 3D games...not the same characters in new settings.

I agree that the Gamecube launch was, horrible, to say the least. I still bought it on release day, and enjoyed Luigi's Mansion and Super Monkey Ball...but not a single game was a system seller, and whoever decided that Luigi's Mansion should have been the "Nintendo Mascot launch title" should have lost their job. It was a fun game, but c'mon, for a system launch? NO!

And despite my rant, I will buy a revolution on release day, I love my Nintendo. Don't get me wrong, I love all games period, I plan to get an Xbox 360 and a PS3, not on launch day, but I plan to get them. :)

[sabre2922]

OK here goes:

first FurinkanianFrood your officially on my blacklist wich now consist of well U LOL

I dont know where to start with you man Im not sure if your an anal retentive 30 year old or an overjealous 15 yr old trying to act like youve been a gamer for 25 years :roll:

Stop talking shit on PS2 just cause you dont have the money to get one. Its a great system with a library full of everything the greatest games on both PSone and PS2 have to offer and any gamer that talks shit on it or bothers with calling it weak just isnt a gamer Hell man its same fucking thing as calling the Gamecube a "kiddy" system. Its :deadhorse:

Ive seen it all come and go since the atari 2600 days and no matter how much I luv Nintendo the fact is they have their head stuck up there own asses they are not going to change their alienating ways they shun third-party developers that they need badly and cut down there fan base every generation by not delivering what is promised no new REAL Marios etc.

About the only thing you said that I agree with was your statement about the Dreamcast and yeah I think it was the last great true gaming console but its over for Sega as a console maker and the same fate will befall Nintendo if they dont deliver with Revolution and deliver BIG.
Now Im not saying it "WILL BE THE END OF NINTENDO" or some shit like that Im just stating that it will be the end of Nintendo developed home consoles that doesnt include handhelds or games.

Also I thought the Metroid Prime games were excellent and were one of the few promises that Nintendo fulfilled with GC ;)

To be honest I have doubt about Nintendo more after their lackluster support of the GC its like they gave up on it after the first 2 years and afterwards are just throwing scraps to a console they decided to let die a slooow fate and that really pisses me off.
Everyone can tell they dont WANT to release the next Zelda on GC but how can they not ? without burning all the Gamecube owners and Nintendo devotees?

The way Nintendo has handled and treated the Gamecube reminds me in so many ways of the way Sega handled the Saturn : a terrible launch lack of third party support etc. Hell the only thing left for Nintendo to say is "THE GAMECUBE IS NOT NINTENDOS FUTURE" just like sega said about the Saturn after announcing the Dreamcast and killing the Saturn dead in the water.

[goatdan]

Just a few quick statements...


What was so abysmal about the GC launch compared to other console launches. It had better launch titles than many other systems (including SNES, PS, PS2, cough) systems. IMO, the DC, Genny, NES were worth getting early on, and most others, knowing what I know now, were ones to wait on.

Why was it so bad? No killer aps, and no reason to own it. The PS2 at least was the most affordable DVD player in Japan, so they racked up huge sales on that. The Xbox had Halo. The GameCube had no reverse compatibility, no good games and an immediately kiddy image. Luigi's Mansion took about 6 hours to beat (that's what I beat it in on my first try without using a guide). Super Monkey Ball was stellar, but not a system seller.


Sony AKA the destroyer of our hobby appears have won. Some fools here and elsewhere have helped them, and I guess I will never understand why. I owned 5 !@#$% Sony consoles before I realized we had been fooled. But ever since then I have been talking to a brick wall.

Sony didn't fool anyone. They just treat their developers nicely and their customers badly -- the opposite of what Nintendo did during the SNES / NES days. Seems Sony makes more money on it too.


Dreamcast, in effect, is probably the last great console.

The Dreamcast was the last "hardcore gamers" machine because it had SO many arcade ports on it thanks to Sega's arcade divisions. Now, arcade ports beyond compilation discs are very, very rare.

[njiska]

Why was it so bad? No killer aps, and no reason to own it. The PS2 at least was the most affordable DVD player in Japan, so they racked up huge sales on that. The Xbox had Halo. The GameCube had no reverse compatibility, no good games and an immediately kiddy image. Luigi's Mansion took about 6 hours to beat (that's what I beat it in on my first try without using a guide). Super Monkey Ball was stellar, but not a system seller.

The Xbox also had many great non-killer apps like PGR and DOA3. Sony also had a whole bunch of hold out fans from the PS2 days that skipped the DC and waited for the PS2. But the biggest thing worth noting is that Nintendo publicly stepped up and admitted that there had been problems with the GC launch. It kind of scares me that it looks like they're gonna repeat those mistakes with the Revolution.


Sony didn't fool anyone. They just treat their developers nicely and their customers badly -- the opposite of what Nintendo did during the SNES / NES days. Seems Sony makes more money on it too.

Dan i've got to disagree with you. Sony did fool their customers and they did it with E3. Sony's big display hyping the PS2 fooled a lot of people into buying it and they didn't get anything like what they were expecting. Looks like the same thing is happening now. I think that after seeing how this gen has gone and seeing all the flaws of the PS2, fans have started to realize just how ignorant they had been at the start of this gen. At the very least i hope they'll stop letting Sony shit on them.

Bottom line is that Sony is supported by 3 groups of people: Sony Fans, Square-Enix Fanboys and people who just want to play their god damn exclusives. The only reason i own a PS2 is for Metal Gear, DMC and Katamari Damacy.I even waited for the slim model to be released before i actually bought one because their quality is shit.


The Dreamcast was the last "hardcore gamers" machine because it had SO many arcade ports on it thanks to Sega's arcade divisions. Now, arcade ports beyond compilation discs are very, very rare.

DC how i miss you. Although i'm actually kind of proud that it's a gamer machine. Everything about it is well designed, except for the bloody controller cable. I mean who decided to put it out the bottom? Anyways the DC gave us one thing that i'll never forget and that was the VMU. I love playing D2 and using it as a compass or playing RE and getting stats on it. A lot of games used it well and it's probably the last great innovation in console hardware. The DC did have a lot of great arcade ports, but you shouldn't forget the originals either.

[sabre2922]

Bottom line is that Sony is supported by 3 groups of people: Sony Fans, Square-Enix Fanboys and people who just want to play their god damn exclusives. The only reason i own a PS2 is for Metal Gear, DMC and Katamari Damacy.I even waited for the slim model to be released before i actually bought one because their quality is shit. < THATS COMPLETE BULLSHIT MAN AND U KNOW IT

Hey if u want to deprive yourself of all the great games the PS2 has to offer then thats fuckin fine man but you dont have to keep talking shit on all the gamers here that do like and enjoy the PS2 and are defenitely more open minded than you are dude.

You really are a true fanboy njiska a fanboy of your own selfcentered bullshit.

What the hell is wrong with playing our "godamn exclusives on PS2" huh? NOTHING thats what.

The fact that you just cut down every gamer on this board who enjoys or likes the PS2 shows that you got no respect for this board or the ppl on it.

If you could pull your head out of your ass for a second you might actually be able to make a few friends on here but I guess that is beneath you since you are all knowing god-almighty right kid?

Damn get a clue :angry: where all gamers on here

you just dont freakin get it do u njiska?

[Rev. Link]

Personally, I thought the GC's launch was better than the N64's. Of course SM64 was a great system seller, but there wasn't anything else for some time. GC may not have had a killer app at launch, but Luigi's Mansion was a fun game, and Rogue Leader was excellent. Not long after that we got Monkey Ball and the GC's first real killer app, Super Smash Bros. Melee.

[Nesmaster]

We need a mario game that had the same magic that Mario 64 held. Hell i couldnt put the game down. sunshine on the other hand i never even got around to finishing. it just lacks that magic that almost every other mario game had.

I have no doubt that zelda will be amazing. I WILL be playing it whether it's a rev or gc exclusive title.

If the revolution has a solid lineup of launch games, nintendo mighthave a fighting chance. If they don't do that much then i'm afraid all will be lost for them.

[MegaManFan]

Actually as a lifelong Nintendo fan myself, I still wish Mario 64 had had the "magic" of Super Mario 3 or Super Mario World, but that's besides the point. Nintendo hasn't lost me as a fan. There are still plenty of quality titles on the GameCube that appeal to both the kid and the adult in me, which would undoubtedly be why I own more games for that system than for both PS2 and X-Box combined. In my view, they're doing just fine.

[Fuyukaze]

As a gamer, I try never to concern myself with labels when describing my own personal interests in gaming. Would I fall under hardcore? Perhaps mainstream? The point is, When I started buying games, it began with the Atari 2600. The next was the NES. Then came the SNES, the GB, the PS1, and so forth. Thing is, I never got the N64, I never got the Virtua Boy, I never got the Gamecube, and while I did get a GBA, its the first model, not the SP. Why? Well, while some of you may disgree with me, for the most part Nintendo had either abandoned or been abandoned or refused to publish a good many of the games I loved their previous systems for. Where were the RPGs? Where were the strat games? Games like Final Fantasy which was originaly released under Nintendo, moved to the PS1. Games like Romance of the 3 Kingdoms, gone as well. Finding out years later that Nintendo had had such great series as Fire Emblem and such over in Japan, but not here never did help improve my thoughts of them. I know many of the Nintendo fanbase consider games like Zelda, Mario, or Metroid to be enough, but I dont. I havent cared for a Zelda game sense the SNES. Havent cared for a Metroid game sense the GB. I havent cared for many of Nintendo's franchise titles in a long time. The GBA has been the first system I've seen in a long time from them, I've actualy given a damn about. With games like Advanced Wars, Fire Emblem, and Golden Sun being released, how couldnt I? These 3 series are all from Nintendo at that! Not 3rd party either. So I gota wonder, why couldnt Nintendo bring out titles like this before? What was stoping them? They have the games in Japan, but once again we get another mario game. Another Zelda game. Another anything game. I see alot of talk about how hardcore gamers play Nintendo, and mainstream gamers play something else but thats right. Nintendo has done alot to alienate its customer base. When Square chose to get in bed with Sony, they should have risen to the chalenge and released their own various RPG series. Dont give me that bullshit that Nintendo was afraid it would fail. Exspecialy after the sucsess of Final Fantasy 7. I realy cant see much they can do that would save them from 3rd place though. Most "gamers" consider them to be a kiddie companie, most 3rd party devolpers aparently consider them a good tax write off, and it realy is all Nintendo's fault. Maybe they could stop with the sequal spinoffs and simply release the stuff they've been holding out on? Maybe they could release compilations of their greatest hits? I do know, if Nintendo wants me to buy their next great idea, they damned well better release the games I want. To hell with the hardcore, to hell with the mainstream. Release the shit that makes me go nuts over Nintendo when everyone else is a Sega fan. Release the games, open the gates of fury, and let people know why Nintendo has been around over 100 years.

This is just the ramblings of an aparently sick man who is running a fevor and is to busy blowing a nose very much red at the moment. Should you feel the need to flame, do so somewheres else for the moment.

[sabre2922]

As a gamer, I try never to concern myself with labels when describing my own personal interests in gaming. Would I fall under hardcore? Perhaps mainstream? The point is, When I started buying games, it began with the Atari 2600. The next was the NES. Then came the SNES, the GB, the PS1, and so forth. Thing is, I never got the N64, I never got the Virtua Boy, I never got the Gamecube, and while I did get a GBA, its the first model, not the SP. Why? Well, while some of you may disgree with me, for the most part Nintendo had either abandoned or been abandoned or refused to publish a good many of the games I loved their previous systems for. Where were the RPGs? Where were the strat games? Games like Final Fantasy which was originaly released under Nintendo, moved to the PS1. Games like Romance of the 3 Kingdoms, gone as well. Finding out years later that Nintendo had had such great series as Fire Emblem and such over in Japan, but not here never did help improve my thoughts of them. I know many of the Nintendo fanbase consider games like Zelda, Mario, or Metroid to be enough, but I dont. I havent cared for a Zelda game sense the SNES. Havent cared for a Metroid game sense the GB. I havent cared for many of Nintendo's franchise titles in a long time. The GBA has been the first system I've seen in a long time from them, I've actualy given a damn about. With games like Advanced Wars, Fire Emblem, and Golden Sun being released, how couldnt I? These 3 series are all from Nintendo at that! Not 3rd party either. So I gota wonder, why couldnt Nintendo bring out titles like this before? What was stoping them? They have the games in Japan, but once again we get another mario game. Another Zelda game. Another anything game. I see alot of talk about how hardcore gamers play Nintendo, and mainstream gamers play something else but thats right. Nintendo has done alot to alienate its customer base. When Square chose to get in bed with Sony, they should have risen to the chalenge and released their own various RPG series. Dont give me that bullshit that Nintendo was afraid it would fail. Exspecialy after the sucsess of Final Fantasy 7. I realy cant see much they can do that would save them from 3rd place though. Most "gamers" consider them to be a kiddie companie, most 3rd party devolpers aparently consider them a good tax write off, and it realy is all Nintendo's fault. Maybe they could stop with the sequal spinoffs and simply release the stuff they've been holding out on? Maybe they could release compilations of their greatest hits? I do know, if Nintendo wants me to buy their next great idea, they damned well better release the games I want. To hell with the hardcore, to hell with the mainstream. Release the shit that makes me go nuts over Nintendo when everyone else is a Sega fan. Release the games, open the gates of fury, and let people know why Nintendo has been around over 100 years.

This is just the ramblings of an aparently sick man who is running a fevor and is to busy blowing a nose very much red at the moment. Should you feel the need to flame, do so somewheres else for the moment.

I agree completely and the whole issue of Nintendo alienating both third party developer/publishers has been my point from the beginning ;)

I would also like to state that I play games on any system as long as they are good games and whatever system has the most games that i want to play for any given generation wins out no matter what company I like or dislike.

I also started out with the Atari2600 then went to NES then to Genesis then to turbographix and SNES and so on Hell the only reason I bought a PS2 in the first place was the fact that I held on to my beloved Dreamcast as long as possible but the writing was on the wall and I had to pick up a PS2 because it had the games that I wanted and the sad thing is that I see the same fate happening to Nintendo but the most ironic thing about the big Ns situation is that they have put themselves where they are and the wounds are self inflicted similiar to the state Sega was in before the DCs release only moreso.

Im hoping that the Revolution wont turn out to be Nintendos Dreamacast :( but hey if it does at least we will have some great great games to remember it by even if they have half the amount of quality games for the REV as Sega did for DC.

[Lothars]

Bottom line is that Sony is supported by 3 groups of people: Sony Fans, Square-Enix Fanboys and people who just want to play their god damn exclusives. The only reason i own a PS2 is for Metal Gear, DMC and Katamari Damacy.I even waited for the slim model to be released before i actually bought one because their quality is shit.

I fully disagree, this is showing extreme bias against sony and really for no good reason

if you really stopped being such a blind fanboy you would see that the ps2 is a great system just like the gamecube and xbox is as well,

[Lothars]

Sony AKA the destroyer of our hobby appears have won. Some fools here and elsewhere have helped them, and I guess I will never understand why. I owned 5 !@#$% Sony consoles before I realized we had been fooled. But ever since then I have been talking to a brick wall.

man fruickianfrood you keep talking shit about sony and it's really getting sicking especially since you have to bad mouth sony at every turn when there's no reason to,

the ps2 is a great system in it's own ways as is the cube and xbox

just enjoy them for what they are.

[sabre2922]

Sony AKA the destroyer of our hobby appears have won. Some fools here and elsewhere have helped them, and I guess I will never understand why. I owned 5 !@#$% Sony consoles before I realized we had been fooled. But ever since then I have been talking to a brick wall.

man fruickianfrood you keep talking shit about sony and it's really getting sicking especially since you have to bad mouth sony at every turn when there's no reason to,

the ps2 is a great system in it's own ways as is the cube and xbox

just enjoy them for what they are.

Some gamers just dont realize its all about the games man not the system or console they are played on 8-)

In fact im starting to think that fruickianfrood and njiska are the same person :hmm:

[Lothars]

I agree, Im not sure if they are the same person

but it's all good

[Nature Boy]

true gaming will soon belimited to consoles of the past.

What an incredibly pompous statement. There's no such thing as "true gaming" my friend. Trolling, are we?

You're all a bunch of fickle mush-heads!

I think that only releasing one or two Mario games per system (instead of the "3 Jaks and 3 Ratchets" previously mentioned) is one of the things Nintendo does right. Quality over quantity my friends. If they released 3 games per generation each game wouldn't get nearly the hype that, say, Twilight Princess is getting as the second Zelda release. And that's why they have to delay the game - they've got to get it right or all of their previous work means nothing when the first Zelda for Rev hits.

[anagrama]

I love the civilised, intelligent and impartial discussion that these "Death of Nintendo" threads always generate. :D

[Daria]

I love the civilised, intelligent and impartial discussion that these "Death of Nintendo" threads always generate. :D

I have a magazine with an article about how the upcoming n64's going to be the death of Nintendo.

I guess they figure if they keep preaching doom and gloom eventually they're going to be right. :roll:

[Cmosfm]

Some gamers just dont realize its all about the games man not the system or console they are played on 8-)



I agree with this statement fully! Which is why I own as many consoles as possible and show no bias whatsoever.

I just wish Nintendo would put out more games. :(

[Captain Wrong]

Console wise, Nintendo hasn't been good since the SNES.

3D adventure games are for the most part completely boring to me. So the new Marios, Zeldas, Metroids, etc. do not appeal to me whatsoever. They suck.

Just give me a Mario game where I run to the right and jump on shit, find secrets, etc. And don't tell me about the upcoming DS title. That game looks like shit. Do you know how badass a 2D Mario game on the GC would be? Badass enough to make me buy a GC, that's for sure. But nope, we'll give Mario a water pack in a 3D world. Stupid.

I could not agree with this more if I wrote it myself.

You want the reason for the Nintendo = kiddie thing? It's 3d Adventure games. No one old enough to have hair on their cookie wants to spend endless hours collecting coins, stars, bananas, notes, whatever and fighting lame bosses while your screen is awash in primary colors and fruity music poors out of the speakers. When stuff like this is the A list titles, that's why people stay away. Like it or not, the only people who care about that are kids and fanboys.



And "Sony AKA the destroyer of our hobby"??? Could you be a little more melodramatic? Give me a fucking break. :roll:

[goatdan]

You want the reason for the Nintendo = kiddie thing? It's 3d Adventure games. No one old enough to have hair on their cookie wants to spend endless hours collecting coins, stars, bananas, notes, whatever and fighting lame bosses while your screen is awash in primary colors and fruity music poors out of the speakers. When stuff like this is the A list titles, that's why people stay away. Like it or not, the only people who care about that are kids and fanboys.

I disagree that 3D adventure games are the reason Nintendo is failing. Maybe if you had said the types of 3D adventure games Nintendo has made, I'd agree... but really, isn't Metal Gear Solid just Mario 64 with stealth, guns, realistic moves and darker action?

And really, I think that even Super Mario 64 appealed to most regular folks. The Jak and Ratchet games prove that there is still a market for platformers. The problem was Mario got cuter, and it took him FOREVER to return, and when he did there was much more too it. Mario has lost a LOT of steam lately, and after the Cel-da debacle, Zelda should be shunned by gamers too. Luckily for Nintendo, it isn't... yet.

[Rev. Link]

Look, it's not bias to have a favorite company. Nintendo just happens to be mine. I liked them over Sega back in the day and I like them over Sony and MS now. And yes, I do own the PSX, PS2, and Xbox, and the Genesis from back in the day.

When a good multiplatform game comes out (say PoP for example), I almost always buy it for GC though because I've always liked that company and I choose to support them as much as I can. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy my PS2 and Xbox. In fact, I won't buy a Tony Hawk game for any other system than PS2. IMO it has the best controller for Hawk.

My whole point is that this "kiddy" arguement is stupid bullshit. If you refuse to play a game because it has bright colors or a cartoony look I'd say that makes you a pretty closed-minded person. I've always thought that the gamers today who go on and on about stuff being "mature" are in fact showing their own immaturity by refusing to play games that don't feature copious amounts of blood and/ or sex.

Do I like Metal Gear? Hell yes I do, they're great games. Do I occasionaly want to play something with a bit of a deeper storyline and a more realistic feel? Sure. Nothing wrong with that. But at the same time I occasionaly want to play something lighter in tone, something that is just plain fun, despite how it looks. And there's nothing wrong with that either.

I think one of the biggest problems in the gaming community today is that we all get to know things like sales figures and who's in what place. We don't need to know that kind of stuff. Who cares if Nintendo's in third place worldwide? They're still making money and therefore will still be around to make the games we love, even if they are third place. I don't care what game Joe Schmoe up the street thinks is cool. Let him like whatever he wants. I'm gonna play what I like, and we'll all be happy.

[irata]

Back in the day, I was psyched to play Video Pinball for hours on my 2600. I went crazy when I got to play Pitfall at a friend's house. Then another friend got a ColecoVision and Burgertime. I crapped myself the first time I played Super Mario Bros. on NES. None of us argued or fought over what system was "the best", or if a company was dying out, because none of us gave a shit.

I think it would behoove the gaming culture as a whole to forget about "death of this and that..." and get back to enjoying videogaming without needing to fight about whatever it is you guys are moaning about. Companies will change, evolve, thrive, die out; it's a fact of life. All this discussion won't predict or alter the future. Just relax and enjoy what you can.

[Slimedog]

Back in the day, I was psyched to play Video Pinball for hours on my 2600. I went crazy when I got to play Pitfall at a friend's house. Then another friend got a ColecoVision and Burgertime. I crapped myself the first time I played Super Mario Bros. on NES. None of us argued or fought over what system was "the best", or if a company was dying out, because none of us gave a shit.

I think it would behoove the gaming culture as a whole to forget about "death of this and that..." and get back to enjoying videogaming without needing to fight about whatever it is you guys are moaning about. Companies will change, evolve, thrive, die out; it's a fact of life. All this discussion won't predict or alter the future. Just relax and enjoy what you can.

Thats funny becasue when I was little, I was a huge fanboy for whatever I owned. Me and my tiny, ignorant friends started the "Sega Sucks" club because two kids we didn't like had SMSes. Now my outlook is that the current climate of competition is good for the industry, not bad. There is plenty of room for all three.

[Push Upstairs]

I have a magazine with an article about how the upcoming n64's going to be the death of Nintendo.

I have one where the n64 is predicted to be an "A-Bomb" and will only leave a few survivors left.


And no, they didnt say it will be "a bomb". LOL

[Nature Boy]

I could not agree with this more if I wrote it myself.

You want the reason for the Nintendo = kiddie thing? It's 3d Adventure games. No one old enough to have hair on their cookie wants to spend endless hours collecting coins, stars, bananas, notes, whatever and fighting lame bosses while your screen is awash in primary colors and fruity music poors out of the speakers. When stuff like this is the A list titles, that's why people stay away. Like it or not, the only people who care about that are kids and fanboys.

But what does that have to do with the games being 3D instead of 2D? They were all awash in primary colours in the SNES days too - look at SMW 2! Fantastic game, yet totally kiddie coloured!

You're *not* going to get 2D Mario games on a console that has to compete with the likes of Halo. It would be ludicrous, don't you think? Think of the advertising MicroSoft would use, ala the Intellivision vs Atari ads in the 80s, comparing a 2D side scroller to a 3D FPS!!! They'd get *killed*

If you're a 2D fan you're just going to have to accept that your days are numbered, as even the portables are going 3D.

And if you're a Nintendo fan you have to either accept that they'll continue to make what they do well and either live with it or move on. It's a simple consumer choice.

[buttasuperb]

It would be ludicrous, don't you think?

Nope. There are companies out there that make their entire living off 2D games. Well, a couple of them. There are still plenty of hardcore 2D fans out there. Far more than post at message boards like this one. And besides, at this point if I was Nintendo, I'd have to think it's going to be tough to stay out of 3rd place in the next generation of consoles, so why try and compete with MS and Sony, as long as you still turn a profit? Make the games fans want to see, and you'll gain back some of the fans you lost.

BTW, 2D will never die, so our days aren't numbered.

[Rev. Link]

BTW, 2D will never die, so our days aren't numbered.

Amen, brother.

[Captain Wrong]

You want the reason for the Nintendo = kiddie thing? It's 3d Adventure games. No one old enough to have hair on their cookie wants to spend endless hours collecting coins, stars, bananas, notes, whatever and fighting lame bosses while your screen is awash in primary colors and fruity music poors out of the speakers. When stuff like this is the A list titles, that's why people stay away. Like it or not, the only people who care about that are kids and fanboys.

I disagree that 3D adventure games are the reason Nintendo is failing. Maybe if you had said the types of 3D adventure games Nintendo has made, I'd agree... but really, isn't Metal Gear Solid just Mario 64 with stealth, guns, realistic moves and darker action?

Fair enough, I'll re-state that. The kind of 3d adventure games Nintendo makes that largely involve treasure hunts are the issue. That's what I meant. :)

And this isn't really a 3D vs. 2D debate as far as I'm concerned. The issue is the style of gameplay. If they created a 3D Mario that played like a 2D one, I'd be on board. But I don't think they can or they won't.


Who cares if Nintendo's in third place worldwide? They're still making money and therefore will still be around to make the games we love, even if they are third place. I don't care what game Joe Schmoe up the street thinks is cool. Let him like whatever he wants. I'm gonna play what I like, and we'll all be happy.

If only more people though that way, this board would be a much happier place. For years I've asked why it matters who is "winning" this stupid console war and no one ever has an answer. As long as they can stay in the game and keep doing what they do, why does anything else matter?

[goatdan]

Who cares if Nintendo's in third place worldwide? They're still making money and therefore will still be around to make the games we love, even if they are third place. I don't care what game Joe Schmoe up the street thinks is cool. Let him like whatever he wants. I'm gonna play what I like, and we'll all be happy.

If only more people though that way, this board would be a much happier place. For years I've asked why it matters who is "winning" this stupid console war and no one ever has an answer. As long as they can stay in the game and keep doing what they do, why does anything else matter?

Well, the problem is that what is happening with the GameCube right now will keep happening if Nintendo doesn't change. Sure, they make money right now, but would many people have bought a GameCube if they were told that only a few games were going to come out for it every year? Obviously, that didn't happen at the start, but if Nintendo can't get third-party support, than the Revolution will be a failure, which means that they won't be able to keep doing what they are doing and stay in the game.

[Nature Boy]

Nope. There are companies out there that make their entire living off 2D games. Well, a couple of them.

And how many of them are making and trying to market consoles?

I actually forgot about a 2D Nintendo game - Zelda: Four Swords Adventures. How well did it do? Anybody? Compared to Wind Waker specifically, since they're both on the same platform?

I don't hate 2D games - I actually quite like them. I just dislike the typical 2D lover who thinks 3D games are garbage, as I quite like 3D games as well.

If the SNES/Genesis era is the pinacle of 2D gaming, that's what, 20 years from the Odyssey 1 to the beginning of the PlayStation era? The 3D era is only 10 years old - the technology is improving and with it so will the games, just like it did with 2D games.

2D isn't dead like, say, the Text Adventure is dead, but you're just not going to see major amounts of 2D games released ever again. They just don't sell hardware.

I suppose what frustrates me most about it all is that I don't understand why we even need more 2D games. There were 1400 Genesis and SNES games released (lots of them dupes no doubt), to say nothing of the consoles that came before them. I'm happy enough playing the old stuff on machines that do them extremely well, and letting the new consoles do things that weren't possible back then.

[buttasuperb]

Technology has nothing to do with me not liking the majority of 3D games. It's the absolutely boring exploration aspects of those games, like Captain Wrong said.

And Nintendo can't put out a 2D Mario game along with a 3D "system seller" Mario game?

They're lazy. But then again, so are most gaming companies these days.

[Push Upstairs]

2D isn't dead like, say, the Text Adventure is dead

Actually, Text Adventures aren't dead either. The recent PC Gamer reviewed one (not a very good one) but they also had an article in it about how "Interative Fiction" is still somewhat popular...especially for the blind.

[gamemaster5378]

I was quoted at saying this very thing. Honestly, I am probably one of the biggest Nintendo fans here(complete N64 collection, one game from a liscensed Nes set). THEY HAVE FORGOTTEN ME. I am not 12. I am not into Pokemon. I dont give a rats ass about Mario in a Sporting events. I dont care about Mario in Board Games. After the SNES, it is like they handed off the video games for adults to the Playstation and then Microsoft. Yes, they have Zelda. Yes, they have Metroid(good series). Where are the the games for older people? Nintendo has forgotten that adults(who were then the people who made them the millions of dollars) like games too, and would love for Nintendo to remember them. I might add that if Nintnedo is so good at making games for adults, why are they a distant third, in game sales for consoles? Nintendo made a grave mistake making a the Gamecube a kiddie system. Although the Cube has some good games adults like, again it missed out on a lucrative market. For all I care anymore, either the Revolution is going to get it right or you can possibly kiss them goodbye making console hardware.
YES. That is exactly how I feel! Finaly someone agrees with me!!

[Famidrive-16]

I don't hate 2D games - I actually quite like them. I just dislike the typical 2D lover who thinks 3D games are garbage, as I quite like 3D games as well.



Same here with me.

The new Mario DS game is getting shit, but I'm frikkin' excited for that game. I don't even care if Nintendo releases nothing in between now and that game's release (well, besides Battalion Wars), the game looks great to me and I'd love to play it. Sure, it's 3D? (2 1/2 D?) I don't really car eeither way, and besides, Nintendo would probably get lazy and import Mario and Luigi sprites from Superstar Saga or something if they made it 2D. Maybe not, but I wouldn't be surprised if that happened.

Will Nintendo drop out? Yeah, maybe in like, ten years or something. But if Nintendo does drop out, I'm going to enjoy every last minute I've got with their hardware. And I think if they do drop to software, I'll feel insulted myself. Nintendo's (almost) never been a quitter company, why quit now when you've still got a chance? I'd feel more bitchslapped if I saw Mario on a PSP than if they never made another Kid Icarus game. Geez, I didn't even like KI that much.

That's really all I want to say. I don't want to get into a heatedt argument about Mario Baseball or anything here. I just felt like I needed to deposit my two cents or else I would've exploded.

So, thank you. Here's your box back.

[njiska]

I don't hate 2D games - I actually quite like them. I just dislike the typical 2D lover who thinks 3D games are garbage, as I quite like 3D games as well.



Same here with me.

The new Mario DS game is getting shit, but I'm frikkin' excited for that game. I don't even care if Nintendo releases nothing in between now and that game's release (well, besides Battalion Wars), the game looks great to me and I'd love to play it. Sure, it's 3D? (2 1/2 D?) I don't really car eeither way, and besides, Nintendo would probably get lazy and import Mario and Luigi sprites from Superstar Saga or something if they made it 2D. Maybe not, but I wouldn't be surprised if that happened.

Hey it's the first classic styled Super Mario game since SMW, how could you not be interested in it?

[studvicious]

All this Zelda being a Rev launch title is rubbish, but I guarantee you I'll be buying the game if it's a cube title, and passing on it if it's a Rev title. A Zelda game would certainly sell systems, but it won't sell nearly as many copies on a smaller installed base.

Yeah, you're right.. I mean who on Earth ran out and bought a N64 to play Mario 64???? :roll: -_-

[Chronodriftersx]

And "Sony AKA the destroyer of our hobby"??? Could you be a little more melodramatic? Give me a fucking break. :roll:

Characterized by false pathos and sentiment < exaggerated emotions are still emotions.

[Nature Boy]

Yeah, you're right.. I mean who on Earth ran out and bought a N64 to play Mario 64???? :roll: -_-

But the company is in a different place now, isn't it?

They're not moving from the SNES to the N64, they're still recovering from the N64 with lackluster Gamecube sales and can't afford to tick off 'cube owners who, at this juncture, are their biggest potention customer base for the next machine. I could be wrong, but I don't think people are going to snap up a Rev with a launch Zelda title like they would've on the N64. I know I won't be buying a Rev until they drop the price, regardless of launch titles (and I'm a *huge* Zelda fan).

[FurinkanianFrood]

I dont know where to start with you man Im not sure if your an anal retentive 30 year old or an overjealous 15 yr old trying to act like youve been a gamer for 25 years Eye Rolling

Stop talking shit on PS2 just cause you dont have the money to get one. Its a great system with a library full of everything the greatest games on both PSone and PS2 have to offer and any gamer that talks shit on it or bothers with calling it weak just isnt a gamer


I have to say that I have wondered the same thing about folks who defend Sony so rigorously.

I have been playing games for about 21 years actually.
A fifteen year old would have to have rich (and really peculiar) parents to have all the Saturn import stuff I have, let alone a PCFX. How many 15 year olds know that NEC made video game systems, let alone know what the hell a PCFX is or actually collect JP RPG's because they can F'ing read the text.

1. I had money for multiple PS2s. I collect rare imports for crissakes. Do you read my posts or just insult them?

2. And I say it's library is weak. So bah. I own systems with weaker libraries but they were already dead before I messed with them, and they failed miserably.

Other than a few Capcom things, NipponIchi stuff, and a few other assorted games that aren't too bad the system is a waste of silicon.

3. The issue about the power is not that it is weak, it's that the design of the emotion engine etc. was conpletely nonsensical by any reasonable engineering standard. It is a @#$% joke. Period. It makes no damn sense to make sxomething like that.
And 4MB VRAM? Explain that decision. Something as powerful as PS2 could be sold for $200 if it wasn't malengineered. Oh wait, the DC..... Given the time gap, the PS2 shouldn't have cost $100 more than the DC, maybe $50, but not $100.

And a couple months or so after the PS2 launch I got a less glitchy DVD player on sale for $100 or so. And it has served me well to this day.

And the second thing. Sony lied through their teeth about the power of the system. They used polygon count statistics for flat unshaded polygons to gauge it's "power." Riiight.

4. I bought a PS2 because I really liked the first PS until I realized how much better the JP Saturn was than the PS library. And I naively thought that Square, Konami, etc. were having temporary slumps (as much as I love the characters and story of MGS, I never cared much for the game itself).

And is it really so strange to bash a system that took three freaking years to get much in the way games on it.

IMO there are 100 or so decent enough to play games on Sony systems, but that is dwarfed by the Saturn, PCE, Genny, NES, SNES on their own IMO.

As far as possible must haves? Maybe a couple dozen between them.


And I just can't stand to play them anymore.

And as far as KD, the Dual shock has such horrible analog sticks that it kind of screws it over IMO. The dual shock several times made my hands feel like they were about to fall off after playing Tekken for a half hour.

Guess what. I am bitter because I miss playing a few exclusives on Sony systems.

Too many bad experiences would flood my mind everytime I saw the boot screen.

I tried to wash it away, but it wouldn't go.

And every time there was a hiccup with the DVD drive I would wonder whether I should bother with the long SRPG I was playing, because another damn drive was gonna blow.

I ended up despising Sony. So what. Don't trash Nintendo and then trash my person for trashing Sony. Let's stick with trashing companies, not people.

We all know that the GC doesn't have the kind of library the NES or SNES had.

Quite frankly, I would have been utterly shocked if it was anywhere close. And I just dealt with it.

I still think it has better stuff than PS2 though.

As for MPrime, again, it was beautifully made, but something intangible about it took me out of the game. The same thing happened with WWaker. I can't explain it. Not that I won't always keep those games around, just like I kept MGS around for years because I loved the story and presentation.



possibly kiss them goodbye making console hardware.


That could happen to any console maker at some future time. So basically, it is possible. But eh.

All of that said. I am trying to not bother saying this stuff about Sony anymore, as believe it or not, I do realize it is a waste of time.

Just defending myself a bit, seeing as I'm actually an eccentric, as opposed to an actual loony or moron, though I can see how things I type (especially at 3 AM back when I was working double shifts at a virtually do nothing job) would make it seem that way.