When did you realize in your life that Sony was taking over?

[MegaDrive20XX]

After watching "Icons" on G4. Everyone is going on and on about PSX's birthday.

The question that hits me, is "When did you realize that Sony was taking over the market?"

Was it a certain point in your life that made you know that this company meant business?

Who is famous for so many electronics for over years. Was there a part of you that doubted Sony could compete with Nintendo and Sega back in 1995?

I honestly felt they couldn't upon launch, since I felt that Sega and Nintendo had loyalty with their consumers and fans.

Yet aquiring the needed liscenses, companies, and etc. was the key element of grabbing this industry by the horns

Yet one man, Ken Kutaragi had that one dream, who felt that it was going to do so incredibly well.

This is not so much a "What If". Since we all know the stories again and again. This is more of a determination topic.

How one company could rise to such power and popularity, by having a product that just came out of nowhere. Kill Sega and make Nintendo weak. (Yeah I said it Sega fans, SONY killed our asses man, game over! game over man!)

I remember reading an issue of EGM and GamePlayer Mag in summer of 1995, talking about the SONY PSX line up. I honestly ignored it, because I was too much into the Saturn scene, because I wanted one so bad, at that time, and still playing SNES.

Who could have known that one of the most famous companies could just step in, take over, kick ass, and take names of companies while doing so.

And I agree with many that state "Sony made gaming cool".

Since I saw more celebrities, Athletes, and people who never even played video games in their LIFE! Have a PSX in their homes, during 1995 until now.

[Haoie]

You know, before the PS, Sony had a small branch developing minor games, and that was it to their relationship with the gaming world. This was in the early 90s. It was called Sony Interactive or something like that. Well either way it didn't exactly make killer hits.

But anyway, their success has been astounding over time [marketing, promotion, research, the works], and I suppose they deserved it.

[NeoZeedeater]

Even before the 32-bit systems launched I figured that Sony would become the new market leader. They were such a big Japanese name in electronics that it made sense to me.

[MegaDrive20XX]

You know, before the PS, Sony had a small branch developing minor games, and that was it to their relationship with the gaming world. This was in the early 90s. It was called Sony Interactive or something like that. Well either way it didn't exactly make killer hits.

But anyway, their success has been astounding over time [marketing, promotion, research, the works], and I suppose they deserved it.

That's true, they made the sound chips for SNES systems even.

Hell, Sony was everywhere. We couldn't stop them. By the time they entered the market of games. They knew the score and knew where to attack. Pretty much who was weak, who was strong, and who needed a publisher. They had the cash and power to provide anyone.

i could pretty much use this analogy, yet I maybe a little off...

Sony Computer Entertainment as to... The Japanese Yakuza

Except without chopping off fingers..

[njiska]

The question that hits me, is "When did you realize that Sony was taking over the market?"

When i started to smell brimstone in the elctronics department. Actually it was pretty clear about a year into the generation. I didn't want to accept it, and i still curse it, but there was a hole in the market and Sony filled it.


Yet aquiring the needed liscenses, companies, and etc. was the key element of grabbing this industry by the horns

No arguement there.


How one company could rise to such power and popularity, by having a product that just came out of nowhere. Kill Sega and make Nintendo weak. (Yeah I said it Sega fans, SONY killed our asses man, game over! game over man!)

Because Sega and Nintendo FUCKED UP! The whole Sega 32x-Saturn time was one of great darkness. Sega fucked up their marketing, release times and prices and it left and opening for Sony to fill. Also Nintendo refused to go with the times. CD was the future but they choose to stick with carts. This mistake has now become the Nintendo standard for every console since then. They fucked up the GC launch and right now it looks like they're fucking up the Revolution.


Who could have known that one of the most famous companies could just step in, take over, kick ass, and take names of companies while doing so.

Again i'm saying it was all because of demonic intervention. Nobody expected it, but you have to respect what Sony has accomplished. Although i still see it as a right place right time situation. The Saturn had issues with power and the N64 was limited by cartridge size. Sony filled a very obvious hole.

The reason that MS has gained such ground against both it's competitors is because Nintendo fucked up again and the PS2 is starting to show it's age. However the hole wasn't as great this time and that's why they didn't take over. Yet.


And I agree with many that state "Sony made gaming cool".

Since I saw more celebrities, Athletes, and people who never even played video games in their LIFE! Have a PSX in their homes, during 1995 until now.

I don't. Sony didn't make gaming cool, companies like Konami, Capcom, Square-Enix and EA did. The games are why people got it. Sony's first party games have, on a whole, been terible. All sony did was give them a platform. It's like the old saying, "It's not what you have, it's how you use it."

[MegaDrive20XX]

Right on the nail good sir. Couldn't have said it better, but you did :)

[Mianrtcv]

I realized it when magically most electronics in my home had a sony tag on them. That was my first clue. Then it went forward. Animation with kids with tremendous round eyes was all around me. I began to get in to feng shui. I started eating more asian meals. My favorite character on Chappelle show was no longer charlie murphy, it was the asian guy. It goes on, but i'll stop... for now.

[Cryomancer]

Dreamcast days. When I saw the zombies buying into the hype, when i'm going "Hey, there's a system right here, now, that's fun as hell, and already pretty cheap, idiot".

[PapaStu]

Hrm.... When Sony took over...

Well I passed a PS up for a N64 when those came out, 'too many buttons' I said. I never bought a PS for myself till I owned many hundreds of games (600+ and my first bought unit was a Debug) and that was last year...

They took over for ME when I saw that there was a library that was SO expansive that there were hundreds of games that I wanted to play and there were solid release dates, and something that I wanted to get monthly, when the N64 and later the DC were either releasing too sporatically, or just wernt releasing at all, coupled in with the launch of the PS2 it was all over numbers wise for me (never mind the fact that I own all the currents and too many games for all of them)/

[PS2Hawk]

PS always has variety, that why I like it.

I totally hated the N64 controller, I liked DC but there were way too many fighting games on DC.

[Nesmaster]

I knew when ps2 launched and sold almost 1 million units in 2 days :/

[Slimedog]

For me it was when the Dreamcast started to falter. About a year after its launch the Dreamcast wasn't dominating store shelves like I thought it would. That and friends (idiots) kept telling me that they weren't buying a Dreamcast because they were waiting for the PS2. Dumbasses or not, I figured they weren't alone.

[Mr Mort]

I saw it coming about 6 months after the N64 launched. The Saturn was already dying and the N64 failed to sell like Nintendo's previous systems, and everyone was playing "playsation" and not playing "video games".

I agree that Sony did the right things, but they also were at the right place and the right time. As previously stated, Sega's hardware was poorly designed, and the N64 was doomed by its media format, but most of all Sony had the most amount of publishers and developers with them.

No doubt, Sony changed the face of video games, I'm not happy about it, and I don't particularly like Sony (as far as gaming goes), but that's the way it is.

[Dr. Morbis]

For me it was when some news program I was watching announced that FFVII would be on the PS and not the N64. I don't think Sony toppled them over so much as it was a case of Nintendo inadvertantly falling on its own sword.

[Falcon]

I was really young at the time of the N64/Playstation (About 9 years old), so I always thought that Nintendo 64 was dominating Playstation since everybody had that system and thats all we would play.

As soon as the PlayStation 2 was launched and there were record numbers and so fourth, I knew right away Sony was going to be huge. Even my parents knew!

[Tron 2.0]

I saw it coming about 6 months after the N64 launched. The Saturn was already dying and the N64 failed to sell like Nintendo's previous systems, and everyone was playing "playsation" and not playing "video games".

I agree that Sony did the right things, but they also were at the right place and the right time. As previously stated, Sega's hardware was poorly designed, and the N64 was doomed by its media format, but most of all Sony had the most amount of publishers and developers with them.

No doubt, Sony changed the face of video games, I'm not happy about it, and I don't particularly like Sony (as far as gaming goes), but that's the way it is.
Agreed ;)

[njiska]

No doubt, Sony changed the face of video games, I'm not happy about it, and I don't particularly like Sony (as far as gaming goes), but that's the way it is.

I don't particularly like them in general. Sony makes shit with the exception of some Discmans and their video cameras. For a company that stole first in the industry, they ure are failing at everything else. looks like i'm not the only one since most divisions are operating at a loss right now and even the PS brand isn't turning a consistant profit.

[RCM]

I knew when ps2 launched and sold almost 1 million units in 2 days :/

That never happened. 500,000 at launch. THey would have sold a million at the US launch if they had a million to sell!

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[sabre2922]

For me it was when the Dreamcast started to falter. About a year after its launch the Dreamcast wasn't dominating store shelves like I thought it would. That and friends (idiots) kept telling me that they weren't buying a Dreamcast because they were waiting for the PS2. Dumbasses or not, I figured they weren't alone.

Exactly what I experienced I would show my friends Soul Calibur and Sonic Adventure and they would say "wow thats incredible....BUT PS2 will be better :frustrated: they were true sheep( I hate to use that but oh well) when it came to buying into the PS2 hype :roll: Now two of those friends like the Dreamcast as much as or more than PS2 but thats AFTER the fact :angry:

I really thought sega had a fighting chance with Dreamcast .....for about 1 year but after the launch of PS2 there was no stopping the hype it was just insane :shameful:

The truth is I saw this coming all of it the downfall of both Sega and Nintendo waaaay back in early '94 when I was reading the excelllent Die Hard Gamefan magazine about Sonys upcoming Playstation.
I knew that the big boys of the electronics industry had their eyes on our little hobby and everything was about to change and it did for better or worse (I think more for the worse) and it still is.

Im just hoping that Nintendo can hold out and come up with a small miracle with Revolution but I just dont see it happening.

Im honestly thinking of becoming a pure retro gamer after this next-generation if all we have to chose from is Sony or Microsoft :(

[§ Gideon §]

And I agree with many that state "Sony made gaming cool".
Nah, they just got it some new clothes.

[hex65000]

Disclaimer: I am not a fan of Sony.

I think for me the biggest warning sign was with the PS2. You still have people wanting this seriously aging unit that really hasn't improved over time.
I admit that I missed the bandwagon on the PS2 because I was still hot & heavy into PC gaming at the time and didn't see anything that I cared for on consoles. The Dreamcast post mortem is what got me back into consoles full steam.
My complaint about Sony is that they are a consumer electronics company. Seriously. My real job currently involves aerospace and they are two different worlds. My wish would be for some happy meduim with my consumer electronics, but that's not going to happen. Definately not with Sony. Simply put, Sony builds their stuff cheaply and markets the hell out of it. Primarily IMO, to the least common denominator. While the majority of the public accepts sony as the leader in console gaming, I remain unimpressed.
Does the system do good stuff? Yeah. Does it have good games? Yep. Do I own them? Yep; at least two PS1 and PS2 units. My problem is that due to my somewhat unscientific observations, I fear that my PSx units will die a premature death. Leaving me with an extensive library of coasters. To me the most collectable aspect of any modern console 20 yrs from now will not be the games, but a working system.
So who am I rooting for?
MS? Nope. If they become the dominant species we'll be d/ling all of our content over the latest version of XB Live on a rental basis. Microsoft has already made their software consumer-hostile on the PC level. I don't believe that they would change their tune in the console arena.
Nintendo? A little. Of the three current gen systems, Nintendo continues to build it's hardware like little tanks. I like that. Decks should be robust, becuase even the most careful person does stupid stuff. They do all sorts of different. (quirky) things with their product lines. I'd say of the three manufacturers, Nintendo at least experiments the most with new methods of gaming. For good or bad is up to the buyer. However, they have historically proven that they are pretty rotten to deal with when they are on top. To me, that is all the more reason to leave them out of the top slot. Second place. Sure.
Other? Possibly. I wouldn't complain if Sega got back into the market with some guns-a-blazing. Or some other interesting software publisher. I'd at least give the system a look. I don't see it though. The market is pretty cramped and hostile as it is and getting progressively harder to break into from a dark horse perspective. It would take someone with possibly more money than sense to even attempt such a task.

We have been trained to be happy little consumers and take whatever we are given because the maker tells us that we must have it etc. etc. etc. Am I guilty of falling into this trap? Oh _hell_ yes. I am also aware of the trap. It may or may not help me in the wonderful world of gaming though.

Hex.
[ Yeah. Yeah. I'm guilty -- and you're guilty too. ]

[Jumpman Jr.]

I still don't think they've taken over Nintendo. But I'm a Nintendo freak.
In my eyes, they will never take over.

[Slave to the Parasites]

I go to Walmart a few years ago to look at DC games, but to my horror I only find hundreds of games I have no interest whatsoever in playing. I thought to myself, "who the hell is responsible for this crap!?"... so I take a closer look at the games and I see the words "Sony" and "Playstation 2" on all the games. That's when I knew.

[Richter Belmount]

after the faulty units crap thats when really late heh they dont give much about their customers and do as pleased. = /

[smokehouse]

I think the writing was on the wall back in the 32/64-bit era. I was desperately waiting for the N64 when I rented a Playstation. I was completely blow away by this console! The titles were cool and the system felt like it was next-gen. Sept ’96 came around and I picked up the N64. One week later I returned it. It simply wasn’t up to par with the PS1. I bought a PS1 and never looked back.

When all the best titles were coming out on the PS and not the N64, I knew the torch had been passed. For the most part, all the N64 had were the Nintendo exclusive titles (in my opinion).

As for Sega, after the Genesis, they were never a contender in my book. The Saturn was a flop (Ok, not in Japan but in the states it failed) and I called the DC’s demise months before 9/9/99 even happened. I know Sega has some large cult following but the DC never had a chance, nor did the Game Cube. The PS2 was set to win and not even the Xbox could stop it.

I hope Sony’s arrogance topples them like it did Nintendo back in the 90’s. I personally hop the PS3 is an complete failure. Back in the PS1 days I thought Sony cared about their gamers and for the most part it showed. Now, with the Ps2, Sony has given us all the finger. Bad product availability, poor quality and high prices? That’s why I don’t own a PS2.

[Richter Belmount]

I hope Sony’s arrogance topples them like it did Nintendo back in the 90’s. I personally hop the PS3 is an complete failure. Back in the PS1 days I thought Sony cared about their gamers and for the most part it showed. Now, with the Ps2, Sony has given us all the finger. Bad product availability, poor quality and high prices? That’s why I don’t own a PS2.
True dat

[PS2Hawk]

I hope Sony’s arrogance topples them like it did Nintendo back in the 90’s. I personally hop the PS3 is an complete failure. Back in the PS1 days I thought Sony cared about their gamers and for the most part it showed. Now, with the Ps2, Sony has given us all the finger. Bad product availability, poor quality and high prices? That’s why I don’t own a PS2.
True dat


WTF are u talking about ?

[njiska]

I hope Sony’s arrogance topples them like it did Nintendo back in the 90’s. I personally hop the PS3 is an complete failure. Back in the PS1 days I thought Sony cared about their gamers and for the most part it showed. Now, with the Ps2, Sony has given us all the finger. Bad product availability, poor quality and high prices? That’s why I don’t own a PS2.
True dat


WTF are u talking about ?

Massive numbers of DRE's
Pissy Customer support
Lack of stock whenever it's needed
Dead pixels
PSP is expensive
PS2 HDD is expensive and on the whole useless
And as for arrogance i refer you to Mr. Kutaragi's statments on the PSP Square button.

Ken Kutaragi:

"This is the design that we came up with. There may be people that complain about its usability, but that's something which users and game software developers will have to adapt to. I didn't want the PSP's LCD screen to become any smaller than this, nor did I want its machine body to become any larger.

"The button's location is [architectured] on purpose," Kutaragi added. "It's according to specifications. This is something that we've created, and this is our specification. There was a clear purpose to it, and it wasn't a mistake."

----------------------------------------------------------

See that's what a jackass says and i know because i'm a jackass. Now Sony did recant on that statement, but the fact that they even let it besaid in the first place shows how much they care about their customers.

[zmweasel]

Sony's first party games have, on a whole, been terible.

"Terible" [sic]? You must've forgotten about Ico, Parappa the Rapper, Sly Cooper, Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, Gran Turismo, Hot Shots Golf, SOCOM, Dark Cloud, FreQuency, WipeOut, Twisted Metal, etc.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

Now Sony did recant on that statement, but the fact that they even let it be said in the first place shows how much they care about their customers.

Where and when did Sony "recant" Kutaragi's SQUARE-button statement?

And how do the statements of one engineer about the placement of one button (which was a non-issue, incidentally) reflect the collective customer-service attitude of a multi-billion-dollar corporation?

-- Z.

[CocoVG]

Personally, I knew that Sony had things in the bag when developers like Square started to jump ship in the early days. Whether or not I like Sony or what they did was immaterial - ultimately, Nintendo shafted Sony (publically, no less) - and Sony got their revenge and then some. Revenge is a dish best served under the same moniker Nintendo themselves were going to use for the SNES CD-ROM - the Nintendo PlayStation.

Sony gave developers what they wanted - a cheaper medium, freedom from draconian contracts and minimum publishing amouts, and the space to actually move forward with their creations. Nintendo as a whole was plum loco to think that with THAT as competition, people would still flock to them.

Blah blah, that sort of discussion can carry on forever. For me, when the developers literally jumped ship for the new kid on the block, that's when I knew Sony was here to stay whether I liked it or not.

[James]

Sony's first party games have, on a whole, been terible.

"Terible" [sic]? You must've forgotten about Ico, Parappa the Rapper, Sly Cooper, Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, Gran Turismo, Hot Shots Golf, SOCOM, Dark Cloud, FreQuency, WipeOut, Twisted Metal, etc.

-- Z.

Ok, Sony doesn't release too many first party games, most of their exclusive titles are made from 2nd part companies sort of like Retro making Metroid Prime games for Nintendo's Gamecube or Bungie making Halo for Microsoft's Xbox. Now Njiska is correct, on a whole Sony's first party titles are terrible the only exception to this is God of War which is an amazing game to say the least and Dark Cloud which you mentioned was pretty good as well.

Now you need to get your facts straight about the rest of these titles. Ico is a first party title and is pretty good like Dark Cloud but all the other games you mentioned are second party games except for Wipeout which was develeoped by Psygnosis Europe which is technically a third party company even though they were owned by Sony. Psygnosis has released games for everything under the sun. Psygnosis no longer exsists as a video game developer as they were split into 989 Studios and an affiliate of Eidos Interactive unfortunately though.


When did you realize in your life that Sony was taking over?

I realized Sony was dominating the industry when all the old games that used to be on SNES and Genesis were now on Sony's platform, mostly sequals though although Sony also seemed to be getting most of the new stuff as well. I think Final Fantasy VII was the final nail for Sony to drive in proving their potential in this market. There were however several new good games being made exclusively for PSX like Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Castelvania SOTN (also for Saturn in Japan but not in North America) and Metal Geat Solid too name a few.

[njiska]

Sony's first party games have, on a whole, been terible.

"Terible" [sic]? You must've forgotten about Ico, Parappa the Rapper, Sly Cooper, Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, Gran Turismo, Hot Shots Golf, SOCOM, Dark Cloud, FreQuency, WipeOut, Twisted Metal, etc.

-- Z.

Very good. You listed some good, and some average games developed by Sony. Now tell me what percentage out of all SCEI, SCEA, SCEE, Naughty Dog, and any other WHOLY owned Sony companies are good. It's a big list so you'd better take a good look at it.


Where and when did Sony "recant" Kutaragi's SQUARE-button statement?

And how do the statements of one engineer about the placement of one button (which was a non-issue, incidentally) reflect the collective customer-service attitude of a multi-billion-dollar corporation?

-- Z.

Well first off Ken Kutaragi was President of Sony Computer Enetertainment at the time so i'd say his word has far more reach and influence then that of a mere engineer as you would imply. He's in charge so he makes the calls and therefore he reflects the stance of the company towards the issue and his stance was "Tough shit."

To be fair technically Sony never offically recanted on Kutaragi's statement, they just decided a month later that they would fix the problems with new models and offer free fixes.

Kutaragi's statement was reported on Jan. 24th, 2005 Link (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/01/24/news_6116985.html)

Sony admits to to problem and starts offering replacements on Feb. 22nd, 2005. Almost a month later. Link (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/02/22/news_6118930.html)

[zmweasel]

Very good. You listed some good, and some average games developed by Sony. Now tell me what percentage out of all SCEI, SCEA, SCEE, Naughty Dog, and any other WHOLY owned Sony companies are good. It's a big list so you'd better take a good look at it.

So now you're backpedaling and asking for "good" games developed by Sony's in-house studios, as opposed to anything merely published by Sony, despite your claim that "Sony's first party games"--which, by definition, includes anything published by Sony--"have been terrible."

Which of the games on my earlier list do you consider "good," and which do you consider "average"? That would be very revealing.


To be fair technically Sony never offically recanted on Kutaragi's statement, they just decided a month later that they would fix the problems with new models and offer free fixes.

So when you said that Sony "recanted," you lied.

And, again, I would ask you to explain how the statements of one man about one button that was defective on 0.6% of 510,000 units--a defect that has since been corrected--reflect the collective customer-service attitude of a multi-billion-dollar corporation. In other words, how do you make a direct connection between Kutaragi's statements and the way in which Sony's customer-service department deals with consumers?

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

Now you need to get your facts straight about the rest of these titles. Ico is a first party title and is pretty good like Dark Cloud but all the other games you mentioned are second party games except for Wipeout which was develeoped by Psygnosis Europe which is technically a third party company even though they were owned by Sony. Psygnosis has released games for everything under the sun. Psygnosis no longer exsists as a video game developer as they were split into 989 Studios and an affiliate of Eidos Interactive unfortunately though.

Don't worry, James. I've got my facts straight, and I know the difference between developers and publishers, and I know the histories of the various developers of the games I mentioned. I simply used the common definition of a first-party game--that is, a game published by a hardware manufacturer.

-- Z.

[James]

Now you need to get your facts straight about the rest of these titles. Ico is a first party title and is pretty good like Dark Cloud but all the other games you mentioned are second party games except for Wipeout which was develeoped by Psygnosis Europe which is technically a third party company even though they were owned by Sony. Psygnosis has released games for everything under the sun. Psygnosis no longer exsists as a video game developer as they were split into 989 Studios and an affiliate of Eidos Interactive unfortunately though.

Don't worry, James. I've got my facts straight, and I know the difference between developers and publishers, and I know the histories of the various developers of the games I mentioned. I simply used the common definition of a first-party game--that is, a game published by a hardware manufacturer.

-- Z.

Fair enough, I still prefer the developement defintion for first, second and third party titles though.

[Captain Wrong]

Time for the weekly Sony bashing!!!

Wheeeee!!!!


And for the record, I think the original question was a good one...I just knew it would turn into the weekly Sony pileon.

[njiska]

So now you're backpedaling and asking for "good" games developed by Sony's in-house studios, as opposed to anything merely published by Sony, despite your claim that "Sony's first party games"--which, by definition, includes anything published by Sony

From Wikipedia:
In the video game industry, a first-party developer is a developer who is part of a company that actually manufactures a video game console. First-party developers may either use the name of the company itself (like Nintendo), or have a specific division name (like Sony's 989 Studios). Unlike second-party developers, however, the first-party developer is considered part of the manufacturer, not a separate entity, and are wholly-owned by the console manufacturer.

There now you know what first party means. And first party developer is the common choice, not publisher.


--"have been terrible."

Sony's first party games have, on a whole, been terible.

Do you know what on the whole means? (and yes I know I said a instead of the, but it's the same damn saying) It means in general, the average, the common standard. That's why i asked you to count all the good games and figure out the percentage. Technically if it's less then 50%, but the percentage of shit is much higher then 50%.


Which of the games on my earlier list do you consider "good," and which do you consider "average"? That would be very revealing.

Good: ICO, Sly, Jak, Ratchet, Gran Turismo, Some twised metal games, only the first Wipeout and Pure.

Average: Hot Shots Golf, Socom (above the par for the PS2 but it's nothing special), Parappa the Rapper (ok that's probably a taste dispute), Dark Cloud

Unplayed games: FreQuency


So when you said that Sony "recanted," you lied.

From Dictionary.com
Recant v. To make a formal retraction or disavowal of a previously held statement or belief.

I did not lie, i merely made a minor mistake that actually would've looked BETTER for Sony. A mistake I willingly admitted.


And, again, I would ask you to explain how the statements of one man about one button that was defective on 0.6% of 510,000 units--a defect that has since been corrected--reflect the collective customer-service attitude of a multi-billion-dollar corporation. In other words, how do you make a direct connection between Kutaragi's statements and the way in which Sony's customer-service department deals with consumers?

-- Z.

I made no implcations about Sony's CS department, although I can tell you from personal experience that they are very poor. I implied that Sony the company, and because we're talking gaming that directly means SCE, which was helmed by Ken Kutaragi, does not care about their customers. Ken's statement is the stance of Sony and that stance clearly does not show concern for the customers. Minor problem or not, it is a problem that should've been covered by warrenty immediately, not after a month of customer complaints. The fact that Sony, at the time of the statement, was refusing to do repairs for that problem under warrenty, shows there concern. At least they didn't pull this stunt with the dead pixels.

Now i'm tired of this pointless dispute so why don't you look here (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52720&highlight=psp+button+sticks).

No point in getting further off-topic here.

[njiska]

Time for the weekly Sony bashing!!!

Wheeeee!!!!


And for the record, I think the original question was a good one...I just knew it would turn into the weekly Sony pileon.

Yeah i agree Cap'n. Like i just said in my last post, the sony arguements are being held elsewhere.

[PS2Hawk]

I hope Sony’s arrogance topples them like it did Nintendo back in the 90’s. I personally hop the PS3 is an complete failure. Back in the PS1 days I thought Sony cared about their gamers and for the most part it showed. Now, with the Ps2, Sony has given us all the finger. Bad product availability, poor quality and high prices? That’s why I don’t own a PS2.
True dat


WTF are u talking about ?

Massive numbers of DRE's
Pissy Customer support
Lack of stock whenever it's needed
Dead pixels
PSP is expensive
PS2 HDD is expensive and on the whole useless
And as for arrogance i refer you to Mr. Kutaragi's statments on the PSP Square button.

Ken Kutaragi:

"This is the design that we came up with. There may be people that complain about its usability, but that's something which users and game software developers will have to adapt to. I didn't want the PSP's LCD screen to become any smaller than this, nor did I want its machine body to become any larger.

"The button's location is [architectured] on purpose," Kutaragi added. "It's according to specifications. This is something that we've created, and this is our specification. There was a clear purpose to it, and it wasn't a mistake."

----------------------------------------------------------

See that's what a jackass says and i know because i'm a jackass. Now Sony did recant on that statement, but the fact that they even let it besaid in the first place shows how much they care about their customers.



I my psp had one pixel that didn't turn black and turned every other color so I asked my friend to make me a movie that flashed white and black and that pixel started working. My PSP's Square button is perfect and I never heard of anyone having prob with Square button.

My launch day ps2 still works I never moded it.

Well I am going home now I dun give a rats ass all I want is better games and thats why PS2 has over xbox and GC combined..for me.

[njiska]

I hope Sony’s arrogance topples them like it did Nintendo back in the 90’s. I personally hop the PS3 is an complete failure. Back in the PS1 days I thought Sony cared about their gamers and for the most part it showed. Now, with the Ps2, Sony has given us all the finger. Bad product availability, poor quality and high prices? That’s why I don’t own a PS2.
True dat


WTF are u talking about ?

Massive numbers of DRE's
Pissy Customer support
Lack of stock whenever it's needed
Dead pixels
PSP is expensive
PS2 HDD is expensive and on the whole useless
And as for arrogance i refer you to Mr. Kutaragi's statments on the PSP Square button.

Ken Kutaragi:

"This is the design that we came up with. There may be people that complain about its usability, but that's something which users and game software developers will have to adapt to. I didn't want the PSP's LCD screen to become any smaller than this, nor did I want its machine body to become any larger.

"The button's location is [architectured] on purpose," Kutaragi added. "It's according to specifications. This is something that we've created, and this is our specification. There was a clear purpose to it, and it wasn't a mistake."

----------------------------------------------------------

See that's what a jackass says and i know because i'm a jackass. Now Sony did recant on that statement, but the fact that they even let it besaid in the first place shows how much they care about their customers.



I my psp had one pixel that didn't turn black and turned every other color so I asked my friend to make me a movie that flashed white and black and that pixel started working. My PSP's Square button is perfect and I never heard of anyone having prob with Square button.

My launch day ps2 still works I never moded it.

Well I am going home now I dun give a rats ass all I want is better games and thats why PS2 has over xbox and GC combined..for me.

Ok first off, take some english lessons buddy. Please. LOL

Launch PS2s generally don't seem to break. It's the following revisions that seem to suffer from more common DREs

NA PSP's don't suffer from the square problem because Sony broke down and admitted it was a problem. They did eventual fix it and that's why no one stateside has a problem.

Your fix for the broken pixel sounds sketchy but is kind of a neat idea.

[zmweasel]

Ok first off, take some english lessons buddy. Please. LOL

You're picking on someone else's grammar when you don't even know to capitalize "English"?

-- Z.

[njiska]

Ok first off, take some english lessons buddy. Please. LOL

You're picking on someone else's grammar when you don't even know to capitalize "English"?

-- Z.

Jesus you are an ass. It was just a friendly rib because i had such trouble making out his last line. Didn't you notice the friendly laugh? I know that English is capitalized, but it's just a forum so i don't really worry about it.

Now come on this is horribly off topic and you aren't even funny. Let's get things back on topic before it's locked.

In short, no more of that talk or I'll put the fucking leeches on you, understand? :snipersmile: ROFL

LOL

[zmweasel]

There now you know what first party means. And first party developer is the common choice, not publisher.

I already know what "first-party" means, and I assumed you meant the common game-industry definition of a first-party game as a title published by Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo, not a wikipedia definition.


Do you know what on the whole means? (and yes I know I said a instead of the, but it's the same damn saying) It means in general, the average, the common standard. That's why i asked you to count all the good games and figure out the percentage. Technically if it's less then 50%, but the percentage of shit is much higher then 50%.

Actually, "on the whole" means "with everything considered." It doesn't mean "the average", and it doesn't mean "the common standard."

When you wrote "on the whole, Sony's first-party games are terrible," you weren't stating "the average Sony first-party game is terrible," or "50% of Sony first-party games are terrible." You were stating "Sony's first-party games are terrible," which of course is incorrect.


Good: ICO, Sly, Jak, Ratchet, Gran Turismo, Some twised metal games, only the first Wipeout and Pure.

Average: Hot Shots Golf, Socom (above the par for the PS2 but it's nothing special), Parappa the Rapper (ok that's probably a taste dispute), Dark Cloud

If you consider ICO and Gran Turismo to be only "good" and Hot Shots Golf and Dark Cloud to be "average," it's no wonder you think that Sony's first-party games are "terrible."

In any case, we should determine what constitutes a "good" game before I give you a complete list of "good" games developed by SCEA, SCEE, SCEI, and wholly-owned subsidiaries of Sony. How about we say any game with an average of 7.0 or higher on GameRankings.com is "good"? We can't rely on your personal definitions, which are in nearly complete disagreement with myself and the majority of the gaming public.


Ken's statement is the stance of Sony and that stance clearly does not show concern for the customers.

Kutaragi's statement (which might've been unflatteringly translated) was regarding a minor manufacturing problem that was resolved in a matter of weeks, and he certainly didn't say anything to the effect of "We don't care about our customers." He was referring specifically to the design and placement of the button. You're looking for something that isn't there.

-- Z.

[njiska]

There now you know what first party means. And first party developer is the common choice, not publisher.

I already know what "first-party" means, and I assumed you meant the common game-industry definition of a first-party game as a title published by Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo, not a wikipedia definition.


Do you know what on the whole means? (and yes I know I said a instead of the, but it's the same damn saying) It means in general, the average, the common standard. That's why i asked you to count all the good games and figure out the percentage. Technically if it's less then 50%, but the percentage of shit is much higher then 50%.

Actually, "on the whole" means "with everything considered." It doesn't mean "the average", and it doesn't mean "the common standard."

When you wrote "on the whole, Sony's first-party games are terrible," you weren't stating "the average Sony first-party game is terrible," or "50% of Sony first-party games are terrible." You were stating "Sony's first-party games are terrible," which of course is incorrect.


Good: ICO, Sly, Jak, Ratchet, Gran Turismo, Some twised metal games, only the first Wipeout and Pure.

Average: Hot Shots Golf, Socom (above the par for the PS2 but it's nothing special), Parappa the Rapper (ok that's probably a taste dispute), Dark Cloud

If you consider ICO and Gran Turismo to be only "good" and Hot Shots Golf and Dark Cloud to be "average," it's no wonder you think that Sony's first-party games are "terrible."

In any case, we should determine what constitutes a "good" game before I give you a complete list of "good" games developed by SCEA, SCEE, SCEI, and wholly-owned subsidiaries of Sony. How about we say any game with an average of 7.0 or higher on GameRankings.com is "good"? We can't rely on your personal definitions, which are in nearly complete disagreement with myself and the majority of the gaming public.


Ken's statement is the stance of Sony and that stance clearly does not show concern for the customers.

Kutaragi's statement (which might've been unflatteringly translated) was regarding a minor manufacturing problem that was resolved in a matter of weeks, and he certainly didn't say anything to the effect of "We don't care about our customers." He was referring specifically to the design and placement of the button. You're looking for something that isn't there.

-- Z.

You know ZM i'm through arguing with you. This is not a concession because you are in fact wrong, but rather is this a last deperatre hope to save this thread. If you wish to keep this arguement going then PM me or start a new thread. Otherwise, let's both leave this thread to the people who want to stay on topic, ok? Let's be fair to them?

[zmweasel]

In short, no more of that talk or I'll put the fucking leeches on you, understand?

"Fucking leeches"? Yeesh. I can't help that it's ironic and amusing to see you refer to someone else's poor grammar.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

You know ZM i'm through arguing with you. This is not a concession because you are in fact wrong, but rather is this a last deperatre hope to save this thread. If you wish to keep this arguement going then PM me or start a new thread. Otherwise, let's both leave this thread to the people who want to stay on topic, ok? Let's be fair to them?

In other words, you lose.

-- Z.

[James]

You know ZM i'm through arguing with you. This is not a concession because you are in fact wrong, but rather is this a last deperatre hope to save this thread. If you wish to keep this arguement going then PM me or start a new thread. Otherwise, let's both leave this thread to the people who want to stay on topic, ok? Let's be fair to them?

In other words, you lose.

-- Z.

You know, Njiska's being nice and he's not going to talk to you anymore in this thread if you're going to be arrogant about it and get this locked. Now if you please stay on topic.


In short, no more of that talk or I'll put the fucking leeches on you, understand?

And just for your information that is a quote from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas that he was using just to be funny, just play along with it and don't be rude. LOL

[zmweasel]

You know, Njiska's being nice and he's not going to talk to you anymore in this thread if you're going to be arrogant about it and get this locked. Now if you please stay on topic.

I don't want "nice." I just want to establish a definition of "good game" that he'll agree to, so I can then supply a list which demonstrates that he's alone in his (mis-)stated belief that at least half of Sony-developed games are "terrible."

Also, he didn't acknowledge his incorrect definition of "on the whole," and he still hasn't explained how it's possible to draw a direct connection between one man's awkwardly translated statement about a minor manufacturing problem with the customer-service attitude of an entire company.

Oh, and when did I realize that Sony was "taking over" the game industry? About six months after the PS1 launched in America, when I found myself writing more about PlayStation hardware and software than every other game system combined. A decade later, it's the same old same old--I review four to eight PS2/PSP games and one or two Xbox games a month. (I've only reviewed a couple of GameCube titles because Nintendo never supplied me with a debug unit to play reviewable betas.)

-- Z.

[icbrkr]

:deadhorse:

[scooterb23]

I don't want "nice."

I would like some nice. Wouldn't everyone else??

And what is nicer than a picture of a kittens in a mail box?




http://www.pusscats.com/Kitten_Pictures-Kitten_Post.jpg

[badinsults]

http://www.oralse.cx/hello.jpg

Be glad I didn't post goatse.

BTW, I love that beating a dead horse icon.

:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

[Blackjax]

http://my.ais.net/~xtreme/sniper.jpg

almost in the sights... just a little to the left... thread will be clean with only two bullets...

:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

you're right, this emoticon rules! LOL

[neuropolitique]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/m.bodie/Toonchat/kitten.jpg

These threads put kitty to sleep.

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

http://www.thelogbook.com/cat/2005/sampson22.jpg

I think I realized that Sony was taking over when I awoke one morning and found that a chip had been implanted in my brain by gremlins that coalesced out of a cloud of glowing energy emanating from my PS2.

It was at that moment that I began to suspect that something, somewhere, might just be slightly amiss.

[Jibbajaba]

Wabobs!

Chris

[smokehouse]

You know zmweasel, you arrogance is rather disturbing. You work in the industry? So what. I’m not trying to be mean but I’m sick of guys like you coming to boards like this and bla, bla, bla, I write columns (or reviews, or own a web site or work for a gaming company or whatever) therefore your opinions are unfounded and incorrect. Possibly njiska was referring to garbage Sony Imagesoft titles? You know, the shit they made before the PS1 and buying up in house developers.

You like Sony? Great, go buy another blatantly overpriced PS2 and shut up. You say you review more PS2 games than Xbox or GC? Again, so what, quantity doesn’t mean quality.

The fact of the matter is that Sony is to dominant and in the gaming industry that’s a bad thing. Often it breeds arrogance and lack of concern for the people who helped them get there.

[sabre2922]

You know what Im sick of? all the fucking Sony bashing its getting REALLLY FREAKIN OLD.

Both the PSone AND PS2 have lots of great games and are popular systems get over it and freakin deal with it.

Also the PS2 does have great graphics just look at the recent vid of BLACK if you need any further proof.

I think some gamers here on this board get off on bashing Sony simply because the Gamecube wasnt a big success bottom line. They are pissed because Sony gets most of the best exclusives and want to take it out on those of us who are a HELL OF A LOT MORE OPEN MINDED to what ALL the consoles have to offer not just Gamecube or Xbox.

Just do yourselves a favor and pick up a new Slimline PS2 (they are great little systems) enjoy all the great games that both the PSone and PS2 have to offer and stop cheating yourselves out of many great gaming experiences x_x
Stop bitching and Whining about PS2 and deal with the fact that its a damn good system and has the best and most broad library that has ever existed for any home game console that covers every genre when you include both PSX and PS2.

You know this is soooo Ironic that Im defending the PS2 when for years I blamed it for the death of my beloved Dreamcast LOL Oh well shit changes.

Also Hating on Sony or the PS2 doesnt fuckin make you "hardcore" or god-almighty-king of the freakin hill all it does is make you closed minded.

[boatofcar]

For me it was when some news program I was watching announced that FFVII would be on the PS and not the N64. I don't think Sony toppled them over so much as it was a case of Nintendo inadvertantly falling on its own sword.

Same for me.

[zmweasel]

You know zmweasel, you arrogance is rather disturbing. You work in the industry? So what. I’m not trying to be mean but I’m sick of guys like you coming to boards like this and bla, bla, bla, I write columns (or reviews, or own a web site or work for a gaming company or whatever) therefore your opinions are unfounded and incorrect. Possibly njiska was referring to garbage Sony Imagesoft titles? You know, the shit they made before the PS1 and buying up in house developers.

I've been "coming to boards" since 1984, when I got a modem for my Commodore 64 and discovered BBSes. I was even a SYSOP for GEnie at the height of my passion for Amiga gaming. So I'm not exactly new to the online thing.

And I don't "work in the industry." I did for a few years, and I might do so again in the near future. For now, I just write about it, as I have since 1989.

Do I think my experience and knowledge makes my opinions more valuable? In certain situations, yes. In this particular situation, no. I'm just calling bullshit on a ludicrous statement that everything Sony publishes is terrible, a statement fueled by emotion instead of reason.

And I think you know he wasn't referring to Sony Imagesoft titles, but to titles Sony has published since becoming a hardware manufacturer (though he later shifted that to games developed and published by Sony).


You like Sony? Great, go buy another blatantly overpriced PS2 and shut up. You say you review more PS2 games than Xbox or GC? Again, so what, quantity doesn’t mean quality.

I don't like Sony. I like games. I don't like a teenager who tells me to "shut up" and resort to ad hominem attacks. I like reasoned responses.

And why on Earth do you think $149 is overpriced?

I review more PS2 games than Xbox or GC games because the majority of console-game releases, and the majority of console-game releases that readers and editors care about, are on Sony hardware. It's been that way since 1996.


The fact of the matter is that Sony is to dominant and in the gaming industry that’s a bad thing. Often it breeds arrogance and lack of concern for the people who helped them get there.

There's no question that Sony is arrogant. There's no question that competition is healthy, in the gaming industry or in virtually any other endeavor. But there's no question that Nintendo was just as arrogant, if not more so, in its late-'80s heyday. So I play devil's advocate in these forums to keep them from becoming an anti-Sony, pro-Nintendo echo chamber.

-- Z.

[njiska]

You know what Im sick of? all the fucking Sony bashing its getting REALLLY FREAKIN OLD.

Both the PSone AND PS2 have lots of great games and are popular systems get over it and freakin deal with it.

Also the PS2 does have great graphics just look at the recent vid of BLACK if you need any further proof.

I think some gamers here on this board get off on bashing Sony simply because the Gamecube wasnt a big success bottom line. They are pissed because Sony gets most of the best exclusives and want to take it out on those of us who are a HELL OF A LOT MORE OPEN MINDED to what ALL the consoles have to offer not just Gamecube or Xbox.

Just do yourselves a favor and pick up a new Slimline PS2 (they are great little systems) enjoy all the great games that both the PSone and PS2 have to offer and stop cheating yourselves out of many great gaming experiences x_x

Well brother, that ain't me, trust me. Although i did pick up a Slim PS2 back when they first came out and now it's threatening to burn my house down. LOL

I do like the PS2's games and i can respect that it has a great libray, but i cannot respect Sony until i see some changes. As i said earlier they became big because they filled a hole in the market and i think when the PS2 started to sell insane quanities, i.e. when Sony took over, it started to go to their heads.


Also Hating on Sony or the PS2 doesnt fuckin make you "hardcore" or god-almighty-king of the freakin hill all it does is make you closed minded.

Telling people if they hate Sony they're closed minded is also being close minded. Hating Sony for no reason makes you close minded. Hating Sony because of their quality record and business practices, is not being close minded, it's called having a valid, supportable opinion. But i don't want to start this old thing back up again so let me just say this. Sony is the big dog and there's no doubting it. I knew they had taken over a few years into the PS cycle and i knew their reign was solidified after the DC was masacared in the market. Do i like it? No. Do i like Sony? No. Do i respect what they did and how it affects all of us? Hell yes. You can't ignore what they've done. They came into the market and slaughtered two giants. That's the kind of thing that will always be remembered.

[Jibbajaba]

You know zmweasel, you arrogance is rather disturbing. You work in the industry? So what. I’m not trying to be mean but I’m sick of guys like you coming to boards like this and bla, bla, bla, I write columns (or reviews, or own a web site or work for a gaming company or whatever) therefore your opinions are unfounded and incorrect. Possibly njiska was referring to garbage Sony Imagesoft titles? You know, the shit they made before the PS1 and buying up in house developers.

I've been "coming to boards" since 1984, when I got a modem for my Commodore 64 and discovered BBSes. I was even a SYSOP for GEnie at the height of my passion for Amiga gaming. So I'm not exactly new to the online thing.

<pointless bullshit edited out>

-- Z.

You know, I'd think with your 21 years of experience at the "online thing", you would be a bit better at it. That's like me getting in the car with my spouse, driving like a total asshole, cutting people off, giving people the finger, and driving on the sidewalk, and then when someone says "Hey asshole, you drive like shit!", I respond with "I've been driving for 20 years so I think I know what I'm doing."

Chris

[Daria]

For the record "on the whole" means the majority. Neither is it the median nor the absolute whole.

[zmweasel]

You know, I'd think with your 21 years of experience at the "online thing", you would be a bit better at it. That's like me getting in the car with my spouse, driving like a total asshole, cutting people off, giving people the finger, and driving on the sidewalk, and then when someone says "Hey asshole, you drive like shit!", I respond with "I've been driving for 20 years so I think I know what I'm doing."

Chris

Please explain how this ad hominem analogy (you're, what, the fourth person to call me names in this thread?) relates in any way to my participation in this forum.

-- Z.

[Captain Wrong]

http://indiboi.com/journal/images/mvc-513s.jpg
http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Cats/Kitten-Duck.jpg
http://www.dansdata.com/images/kitten/box520.jpg
http://www.strainphoto.com/images/photoweek/Flying%20Kitten.jpg
http://www.amrt.net/siskiyou/Black%20Kitten%20rsized.jpg
http://flamepointcat.com/images/adoptpic/B_2_up_in_basket__61.jpg

[Jibbajaba]

You know, I'd think with your 21 years of experience at the "online thing", you would be a bit better at it. That's like me getting in the car with my spouse, driving like a total asshole, cutting people off, giving people the finger, and driving on the sidewalk, and then when someone says "Hey asshole, you drive like shit!", I respond with "I've been driving for 20 years so I think I know what I'm doing."

Chris

Please explain how this ad hominem analogy (you're, what, the fourth person to call me names in this thread?) relates in any way to my participation in this forum.

-- Z.

A: I think you understand what I'm saying just fine.
B: I didn't call you names.
C: I think you need to look up the meaning of "ad hominem". Look up "on the whole" while you're at it, since you got that wrong too.

Chris

[anagrama]

a) That's a perfectly legitimate use of 'ad hominen'.
b) Some people really don't know when to shut the fuck up.

[njiska]

Hey Captain Wrong? Do you have like a kitten ranch or something? God damn that's a lot of kittens. LOL

[Jibbajaba]

You know what, I'm not going to get into a debate over semantics here. Some people will agree with me, others won't.

Anagrama, was that "STFU" comment directed at me?

Chris

[zmweasel]

A: I think you understand what I'm saying just fine.
B: I didn't call you names.
C: I think you need to look up the meaning of "ad hominem". Look up "on the whole" while you're at it, since you got that wrong too.

Chris

A: No, I really don't. I find your analogy bizarre and nonsensical. That's why I'm asking you to explain it.

B: You compared my posts to "driving like a total asshole." I don't understand the comparison, but I do understand that calling someone a total asshole, even via nonsensical analogy, is name-calling.

C: As pointed out by a previous poster, I properly used the term "ad hominem" when referring to your previous post, which was a personal attack.

And I provided the proper definition of "on the whole," which you can verify by looking at the following reference sites. It doesn't mean "the majority" or "the average" or "the common standard."

http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=on+the+whole

http://www.answers.com/on+the+whole&r=67

-- Z.

[SoulBlazer]

That's what I love about you, Zach......you never hold anything back. LOL

For the record, I'll come out and say that he's right -- the vast majority of posters here are wearing rose colored glasses and are anti-Sony and pro-Nintendo due to their history and personal beliefs. I'm a GAMER, and I don't give a rats ass as to what system the game is on as long as it's FUN TO PLAY.

Now, can we PLEASE stop being this DEAD HORSE ALLREADY? :roll:

[sabre2922]

That's what I love about you, Zach......you never hold anything back. LOL

For the record, I'll come out and say that he's right -- the vast majority of posters here are wearing rose colored glasses and are anti-Sony and pro-Nintendo due to their history and personal beliefs. I'm a GAMER, and I don't give a rats ass as to what system the game is on as long as it's FUN TO PLAY.

Now, can we PLEASE stop being this DEAD HORSE ALLREADY? :roll:

Thank u I will be the first to stop beating said horse :D hes gotta be beaten to a mass of red and blue pulp by LOL

[Kroogah]

http://64.159.77.51/~helmet/yashiro/destroyerofworlds.jpg

Since you guys are only slinging shit at eachother at this point, stick to Private Messages.