View Full Version : Is it worth collecting CD games?
I have over 250 GC titles, but I don't know if I want to sell them or collect them. I've never collected CD titles. I've heard they will not work after 20 or 30 years, so I'm not sure if I want to do this. However, I'm collecting a lot of DS games. The covers make it perfect for collecting, since there is no wimpy box.
Yes, I also heard thas CDs won't work after 30 years or so, but I woul collect them, nervermind if they are working in 30 years. Even if they don't work, you are not responsible for that.
philosophyst
10-02-2005, 02:16 PM
I have over 250 GC titles, but I don't know if I want to sell them or collect them. I've never collected CD titles. I've heard they will not work after 20 or 30 years, so I'm not sure if I want to do this. However, I'm collecting a lot of DS games. The covers make it perfect for collecting, since there is no wimpy box.
With 250 titles under your belt, it sounds to me like you are already collecting for the GC. I collect for the GC also but currently only have 101 titles. I am wondering why they will not work in 20-30 years? If this is true, it's kind of scary for any PS1 collectors considering how old some of those games are getting to be already. Anyone have any information on this 20-30 year thing? I've never heard of it.
As for the DS, the covers are great! I also collect for it, I have 21 games right now. Make that 22 this Tuesday with Trauma coming out. 8-)
unbroken
10-02-2005, 02:21 PM
I was always under the impression that it was only LOW quality cd's that would do this, like the ones that have that silverish stuff that flakes off really easy if you scratch it. I dont see how they would stop working after 30 years as so long as you kept in them in a cool place out of the sun, they should last a lifetime. I would'nt worry about to much.
UPDATE! (i just found this in google):
Recently, scientists at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) looked at CDs and DVDs to see how long digital information recorded on to them would survive. They concluded that most CDs and DVDs will last 30 years or more if handled with care, but many factors can slash their longevity. Direct exposure to sunlight can do a great deal of damage both from the sun's ultraviolet rays and the heat. Indeed, any rapid significant change in temperature or humidity can stress the materials. Discs last longest when stored in plastic cases in a cool, dark, dry environment. Because gravity can gradually bend the disc, storing it upright like a book is best for long-term storage. The study also found that fingerprints and smudges frequently do more damage than scratches, and recommends handling discs by the outer edge or the center hole.
PDorr3
10-02-2005, 02:24 PM
Does this mean my ICO wont work, its blue disc :eek 2:
THATinkjar
10-02-2005, 03:06 PM
It is probably somewhat irrelevant if our CDs die within thirty years time, since everybody will be in the same position. Your collection will be worth something, regardless of what happens, since it’ll happen to us all. Just look after the boxes, manuals, etc...
Jumpman Jr.
10-02-2005, 03:08 PM
Its the same thing with the batteries in carts I guess isn't it? Aren't alot of people saying that the carts with batteries in them will only last 20 years or something, and isn't that about now?
Jagasian
10-02-2005, 03:28 PM
Its the same thing with the batteries in carts I guess isn't it? Aren't alot of people saying that the carts with batteries in them will only last 20 years or something, and isn't that about now?
The batteries last about 5 to 15 years, and are easily replaced. Also, even if the battery is dead, you can still play the game. So, no, it is not the same thing.
Garry Silljo
10-02-2005, 03:46 PM
Sounds like a bunch of BS to me. Are you saying that if I buy a CD and don't even open the thing, thirty years later it won't work? Bah, I say. Just listen to the statment and think for minute and it's ludicrous. I simply can't fathom it. Who's got any evidence for this claim? The life of a CD is 100% percent based on the care taken to preserve it until I see hard evidence otherwise.
VG_Maniac
10-02-2005, 04:04 PM
I've heard that CDs and DVDs can last up to 100 years if you take very good care of them. The main problem with discs (other then getting scratched) is if they develope disc rot, and I'm not exactly sure what causes that. I read somewhere that storing discs vertically rather then horizontally will help increase their lifespan. However, I don't really know if that is true or not.
jajaja
10-02-2005, 04:07 PM
CDs today are "garanteed" to work about 100 years. Of course, the CD isnt 100 years old so its impossible to prove this.
Im reading this from a Vebatim CD-R package now: "100 years archival life".
So I dont think you have to be scared that your GC games will be destroyed by time.
CDs today are "garanteed" to work about 100 years. Of course, the CD isnt 100 years old so its impossible to prove this.
Im reading this from a Vebatim CD-R package now: "100 years archival life".
So I dont think you have to be scared that your GC games will be destroyed by time.
However, these are things that you will not be able to pass on to future generations.
joshnickerson
10-02-2005, 04:30 PM
It won't matter, because in 30 years, we'll be overrun by those damn dirty apes!
YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT UP! DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!!
Griking
10-02-2005, 04:33 PM
Sounds like a bunch of BS to me. Are you saying that if I buy a CD and don't even open the thing, thirty years later it won't work? Bah, I say. Just listen to the statment and think for minute and it's ludicrous. I simply can't fathom it. Who's got any evidence for this claim? The life of a CD is 100% percent based on the care taken to preserve it until I see hard evidence otherwise.
Everything breaks down in time, food goes bad, people die and yes, even CDs and DVDs will break down and go bad. Its really not that hard to fathom to me.
CDs today are "garanteed" to work about 100 years. Of course, the CD isnt 100 years old so its impossible to prove this. Im reading this from a Vebatim CD-R package now: "100 years archival life". So I dont think you have to be scared that your GC games will be destroyed by time.
Actually Verbatim's guarantee means that if their CD breaks down within 100 years they will replace it or refund your money for it. That's all most guarantees mean nowadays. And I highly doubt that Verbatim will have spare copies of Rez or Suikoden lying around to replace bad copies with 100 years frokm now. For that matter, there's no guarantee that Verbatim will be around in 100 years anyways.
jajaja
10-02-2005, 04:36 PM
It won't matter, because in 30 years, we'll be overrun by those damn dirty apes!
YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT UP! DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!!
ahahah LOL
Homer Simpson rules! :D
jajaja
10-02-2005, 04:41 PM
CDs today are "garanteed" to work about 100 years. Of course, the CD isnt 100 years old so its impossible to prove this. Im reading this from a Vebatim CD-R package now: "100 years archival life". So I dont think you have to be scared that your GC games will be destroyed by time.
Actually Verbatim's guarantee means that if their CD breaks down within 100 years they will replace it or refund your money for it. That's all most guarantees mean nowadays. And I highly doubt that Verbatim will have spare copies of Rez or Suikoden lying around to replace bad copies with 100 years frokm now. For that matter, there's no guarantee that Verbatim will be around in 100 years anyways.
True that, and you will most likely be dead before you need to complaint about data being gone from a CD. I dont who manufacture the discs for current generation consoles, but I dont think they have a guarantee that the game will work for 100 years. I havnt heard about that atleast.
However, these are things that you will not be able to pass on to future generations.
Might be, but are you collecting for yourself now or your grandkids in 70 years :) There arent any guaratee that the cartridge based games will work in 70 years either.
So I would just enjoy the games and collecting right now and dont worry about if the games will work in 50 years or not eventho its a scary thought.
snes_collector
10-02-2005, 04:49 PM
The study also found that fingerprints and smudges frequently do more damage than scratches, and recommends handling discs by the outer edge or the center hole.
I got some games with fingerprints all over them. Whats the best way to clean them?
sabre2922
10-03-2005, 01:44 AM
CDs or DVDs will last for a VERY LONG TIME if taken care of.
If the discs are kept clean and scratches are kept to a minumum I see no reason why any CD based game wouldnt last at least 100 years be it CD,DVD, GC-minidvd, GDrom (Dreamcast) or the upcoming HD-DVD or BlueRay.
Also "disc rot" is largely caused by storing CDs in hostile environments IE to hot or too much humidity and fingerprints that are left on CDs do the most damage because of the acids.
simple solution store CDs or DVDs based games in a regular room temperature environment and keep those fingerprints wiped off and the CDs as clean as possible and you should have no problems with "cd rot".
Another advantage is that the quality of CDs have changed dramatically since the early 80's and any of us gamers that collect for anything from PSX/Saturn and up should have very few problems with our CD based games.
Hell a freind of mine has a small collection of Sega Cds and they still look and work perfect on his Model 2 Sega CD.
Also I ONLY collect CD and DVD based games for the simple reason that it is just to easy to emulate anything from Atari up to N64 so cartridge based systems I no longer collect for and havent for years.
Dont get me wrong if I were a wealthy man I would collect everything I could get my hands on but with a verrry limited budget I chose to collect only for PSX,Dreamcast and up.
Bluteg
10-03-2005, 01:52 AM
So if games only last 100 years then wouldn't a collector (if in abundance) who does not play games be depriving the future generations of the ability to play those games they do not play.
I have thought of this issue many times... I wouldn't want to be stuck with a large collection after the medium it was on started permenantly decaying.
badinsults
10-03-2005, 01:58 AM
It won't matter, because in 30 years, we'll be overrun by those damn dirty apes!
YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT UP! DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!!
ahahah LOL
Homer Simpson rules! :D
That comment is sad, as I am a huge Planet of the Apes fan.
:beaten:
At any rate, if you are worried about your cds not lasting, be more fearful of your cassettes, as I am sure those are even less long lasting. Or how about punch cards. Yeah, those were used 30 years ago. Or how about vacuum tubes. Back when they used those, they had people who's job it was to replace burnt out tubes. Those things were lucky to last a month.
sabre2922
10-03-2005, 04:02 AM
So if games only last 100 years then wouldn't a collector (if in abundance) who does not play games be depriving the future generations of the ability to play those games they do not play.
I have thought of this issue many times... I wouldn't want to be stuck with a large collection after the medium it was on started permenantly decaying.
No offense man but are u in the running for a nobel piece prize or in the running to become pope?
I mean cmon "depriving future generations of the ability to play those games?" I mean either we exist in two totally different worlds friend or u must live in some type of lala land were everyone holds hands and shares all their belongings :roll:
Hell Ive had more games STOLEN from me than Ive ever borrowed thats the kinda coldhearted piece of shit world I live in.
Anyway I guess thats a nice gesture but I just dont get your meaning AND the majority of the CD based videogames will most likely outlast everyone of us so dont sweat the small stuff and just enjoy the games.
Saabmeister
10-03-2005, 06:13 AM
I thought disc rot was caused by oxygen and the atmosphere getting at the recorded layer of the disc, through scratches or whatever. I remember reading something about it awhile ago, and I think it said that some early CD's are starting to rot. People talk about old floppies not working anymore, but thankfully that hasn't happened to any of my C64 disks yet :D
I thought disc rot was caused by oxygen and the atmosphere getting at the recorded layer of the disc, through scratches or whatever. I remember reading something about it awhile ago, and I think it said that some early CD's are starting to rot. People talk about old floppies not working anymore, but thankfully that hasn't happened to any of my C64 disks yet :D
This is exactly what disc rot is. I lost around 15 audio CDs to this a few years ago (I have around 250 audio CDs). They started to get these "pinholes" in the data layer. They eventually became unplayable. They were all CDs from the late 80s and were the type that just had a little bit of text on the label side, as opposed to the full painted labels we see on most CDs and games now.
Also, the glue that adheres the front and back of the CD can have a flaw and allow some air into the data layer. This was a well-known problem with Laserdiscs manufactured from certain companies.
Discs with no leaks in the seal around the edge of the disc and no scratches that reach the data layer should live longer than you.
jdchess
10-03-2005, 10:42 AM
Something that no one here mentioned yet...the difference between a "burnt" CD/DVD and a "pressed" CD/DVD. Everyone knows where burnt CDs and DVDs come from and pressed CDs and DVDs come from manufaturers who need to create large quantities of the same disc. Burning a million copies of a movie is not economical. I'm sure there is a difference between the two as far as longevity, I'm just not sure what that is. I would think that the pressed discs might last longer. Anyone know?
Damion
10-03-2005, 11:00 AM
Well from my understanding. though the CD may not last between thirty and a hundred years you'll still have the license for the data. sooo in theory you still own the game. So you should be able to get it by other means and be legal.
So, you may want to find a way to backup your GC discs on something a little more lasting and store with the games. when the time comes to pack them away.
Thats what keeps me from worrying anyways.
MASTERWEEDO
10-03-2005, 11:18 AM
I havent had any roblems with my sega cd collection, but i have experienced disc rot, but it was burnt cds. I noticed that label side scratches arent that bad either cuz i just started colloring in the hoels on a few cds with a sharpie(what did i have to lose it didnt work anyway) and now the cds play fine. I have had the entire label come off an underground but propressed cd, and i was pissed cuz i still cant find that damn cd(bedlam - chemical imbalancez vol 2).
zerohero
10-03-2005, 12:16 PM
I thought disc rot was caused by oxygen and the atmosphere getting at the recorded layer of the disc, through scratches or whatever. I remember reading something about it awhile ago, and I think it said that some early CD's are starting to rot. People talk about old floppies not working anymore, but thankfully that hasn't happened to any of my C64 disks yet :D
This is exactly what disc rot is. I lost around 15 audio CDs to this a few years ago (I have around 250 audio CDs). They started to get these "pinholes" in the data layer. They eventually became unplayable. They were all CDs from the late 80s and were the type that just had a little bit of text on the label side, as opposed to the full painted labels we see on most CDs and games now.
Also, the glue that adheres the front and back of the CD can have a flaw and allow some air into the data layer. This was a well-known problem with Laserdiscs manufactured from certain companies.
Discs with no leaks in the seal around the edge of the disc and no scratches that reach the data layer should live longer than you.
Did you check them for finger prints?
I had this happen to me with recent cd's. Sometimes when i work out I touch this disc while I'm sweating. So i wouldn't worry about it unless your disc are full of finger prints or in a high humide area.
goatdan
10-03-2005, 12:43 PM
This conversation has come up somewhere or another a whole bunch lately...
Chances are, your disc based console games will outlive you.
Yes, after 20 years it has been known that discs begin to get data rot. What happens is that the aluminum layer of the disc rots the same way that an aluminum can in the woods would rot. Have you ever found one of those? It may only be 15 years old, but the can has huge holes in it where it has rotted away to nothing. Eventually, even a well-cared can would begin to rot away.
The same thing can happen to CDs. Since the layer is so much thinner than a can, it has the potential to happen much faster. Part of the problem was that when discs originally were manufactured, they were sealed very well. So, the disc had air pockets near the data layer, as well as often pores where air could circulate within the disc itself. This contributed to the disc rotting much faster.
Current day discs are sealed in a different manner that almost eliminates air pockets on the inside of them, and properly seals the outside layers together. This process was began in the early '90's, and continues today.
While the 20 year thing is correct for the original discs made, the difference is much like that can that is sitting out in the woods. The original CDs are "open to the elements" and they rot out very quickly (well, in the great scheme of things 15-25 years is "very quickly") because of this. But newer CDs are like keeping that can in a cool, dry spot. It will probably last for five to ten times the length of the can in the woods before it too falls victim to the elements.
Pressed discs will last MUCH longer than burned discs, by the way. I don't know the exact reasons why, but they do.
So anyway, I wouldn't worry about it much at all. You can collect away, and be happy to know that there shouldn't be any problems for years and years. It is very possible the means to play these discs (Dreamcasts, Sega CDs, etc) will all succumb to age LONG before the discs themselves do.
Personally I can't bring myself to collect CD games. Probably goes back to when I tried buying a few computer games, then they wouldn't work on my PC because of defective CDs. I prefer cartridges much more: they're much more durable so they won't get scratched. They take up more space, but for me that's a small price to pay in return for durability.
Aussie2B
10-03-2005, 02:04 PM
Meh, I'm not worried. I got more games for PlayStation than any other single console, and I plan to continue to collect more and more.
SegaAges
10-03-2005, 03:19 PM
I do not think that you guys should be worrying so much.
I have diamond black verbatim cdr's that i took pretty good care of, but burnt music onto them. They are in pristine condition and play flawlessly. I have some office depot cdr's that suffer from disc rot (I kept all of my burnt music on a 100 cd spindle in my car for a very long time).
I started collecting for saturn long before I was burning music, and all of my saturn games work just like the day I bought them.
Unless you keep your games on 100 cd spindles in your car (in a state that has heavy snow and hot summers), than I think you will be just fine.
I have a few cd's with disc rot, and , as far as i know, none of them are games.
s1lence
10-03-2005, 04:06 PM
It is very possible the means to play these discs (Dreamcasts, Sega CDs, etc) will all succumb to age LONG before the discs themselves do.
Yeah, I believe that the means to play the media or to fix the player of the media will be extinct well before your discs become unusable. Just enjoy them while you can play them.
GameNinja
10-03-2005, 04:58 PM
I don't mean to derail the thread but basically for longevity, cartridges are superior to discs right?
Thanks.
goatdan
10-03-2005, 05:06 PM
I don't mean to derail the thread but basically for lengevity, cartridges are superior to discs right?
No one really knows, but it is generally considered that they are - I think more because they are harder to break, so people think that they simply can't rot... but chips go through data-rot too.
Cartridges are better than first-gen CDs though, that's for sure. Beyond that though, we're all just taking a chance...
hegyak
10-03-2005, 05:26 PM
This might be off topic, but, older cd's such as the first few will explode if they are spun fast enough. Now the question is, Will more modern cds end up exploding if it goes fast enough (IE faster then then what made the 1st few explode)?
goatdan
10-03-2005, 07:47 PM
This might be off topic, but, older cd's such as the first few will explode if they are spun fast enough. Now the question is, Will more modern cds end up exploding if it goes fast enough (IE faster then then what made the 1st few explode)?
If you spin ANY CD fast enough, it will explode. The stress from the centrifical (sp?) force tugs on the CDs, so eventually spinning it fast enough will cause it to break.
Dimitri
10-04-2005, 04:38 AM
No one really knows, but it is generally considered that they are - I think more because they are harder to break, so people think that they simply can't rot... but chips go through data-rot too.
I'm not sure if mask ROMs (the manufactured kind used in virtually all retail carts) suffer from this to a significant degree, but EPROMs certainly do. Thus why it's vital to back up your prototypes, arcade games, and Color Dreams cartridges. :roll: These things can be easily rewritten with the original data when it starts to deteriorate...
"Bit rot" as a rule only applies to EPROMs, which are rewriteable, and thus also erasable...
If you spin ANY CD fast enough, it will explode.
Technically, if you spin anything at all fast enough, it will explode. ;)
The study also found that fingerprints and smudges frequently do more damage than scratches, and recommends handling discs by the outer edge or the center hole.
I got some games with fingerprints all over them. Whats the best way to clean them?
You can use steel wool or a brillo pad, just rub really hard to get the finger prints off. :D
I use a soft cloth. You can find them every where. I have dozens of them that I use for cleaning vinyl records. Gun stores carry them by the dozen as well. You can also buy a cleaning kit. They are a dime a dozen. Every electronic store carries them, like Best Buy.
goatdan
10-04-2005, 09:40 AM
I'm not sure if mask ROMs (the manufactured kind used in virtually all retail carts) suffer from this to a significant degree, but EPROMs certainly do. Thus why it's vital to back up your prototypes, arcade games, and Color Dreams cartridges. :roll: These things can be easily rewritten with the original data when it starts to deteriorate...
Supposedly, it does apply to mask ROMs also, but how long until it starts to occur... who knows? The technology is so new...
Technically, if you spin anything at all fast enough, it will explode. ;)
Heh... I originally had that written, but I decided to only talk about CDs. I would LOVE to experiment more with this ;)