Console Mods Ruled Legal

[Griking]

At least in Australia (http://apnews.excite.com/article/20051006/D8D2GB8OK.html). I wonder if this will set a precedent here in the US or other countries.

[Sothy]

OF course. Kids used to come into the store all the time and inform me that their dad built them a system that plays Nintendo 64 Saturn and Playstation games all on the same machine yet they were never arrested :)


Looking forward to an influx of Australian Pirated software..

[diskoboy]

Modding is legal in the US, but has several grey areas. It just voids your warranty, definately.

It's the games to use in a modded system that's illegal, since it's a modded system, you're most likely using a backup or a disc you copied off of something you "rented" from blockbuster video. That's considered copyright infringement, unless you own an original copy of the disc, as well.

But you can alter your console however you want. Just don't be an idiot, like that guy from the UK who was selling Xbox's with the hard drives full of games.

It's the poor folks in the UK who can't mod their consoles at all. They wouldn't do that in the US. It would hinder the advance of technology, in general. I'm surprised the Brits didn't realize this when they came up with the law.

[Buyatari]

Modding is legal in the US, but has several grey areas.

This is an urban legend which I hear time and time again. Circumventing copy protection is specificly listed in the law books and is illegal in the US.

[chrisbid]

Modding is legal in the US, but has several grey areas.

This is an urban legend which I hear time and time again. Circumventing copy protection is specificly listed in the law books and is illegal in the US.

but the DMCA is bad law, and no jury with a clue would ever convict a person for this.

lawsuits on the other hand....

[diskoboy]

Modding is legal in the US, but has several grey areas.

This is an urban legend which I hear time and time again. Circumventing copy protection is specificly listed in the law books and is illegal in the US.

Well, that's the thing.... The copy protection is embedded in the software, which makes copying the software illegal. I think the only protection the hardware provides is the region protection. So basically, you're only tinkering with the code in the game. The hardware code remains unaffected. That guy from the UK got arrested because he filled a hard drive full of copied games, then profited from it. Not really from altering the hardware.

It's the same with music CD's.... You can copy them all you want, if you own them. Otherwise, having a CD or DVD burner would be completely pointless.

I heard (I heard - I'm not 100% of it's validity) the Supreme Court is going to hear a case involving wether companies can legally put copy protection on all disc media (music, DVD movies, and games) and prevent the consumer from creating a backup of something he legally owns.

[Mangar]

Modding in the U.S is legal. Don't get anyone tell you different.

There are just so many different ways a case against modding would get laughed out of court here. But as a country founded on the concept of freedom, property rights, and individiualism - The concept that Government can tell us how, and when we are able to use products we buy is ludicrous. If i wanna buy a DVD player, and play catch with the damn thing - That's my right as an owner and citizen. Same if i wanna put a chip in there to enhance it's capabilities.

It's what you can DO with the mods that's illegal. Think of it like a gun in that respect. (Without all the messy blood and stuff)

[Griking]

If console modding is legal then why is Sony able to sue retailers who mod consoles for their customers. Also why does eBay remove all auctions of modded consoles (if they catch them)?

[Buyatari]

Modding in the U.S is legal. Don't get anyone tell you different.

Modding is not legal. You might not get arrested. You might not get convicted. No one might even care that you do but under the DMCA "circumventing copy protection" is specificly addressed and it is illegal.

[pragmatic insanester]

whoever invented the idea of region-locking, fuck you.

[hezeuschrist]

Modding in the U.S is legal. Don't get anyone tell you different.

Modding is not legal. You might not get arrested. You might not get convicted. No one might even care that you do but under the DMCA "circumventing copy protection" is specificly addressed and it is illegal.

Putting a giant pink dildo inside my xbox doesn't circumvent copyright, and neither does putting a chip in my Xbox. Putting cracked software on my xbox does.

[thegreatescape]

I wouldnt expect this to set a precident in the UK or US, I mean, afterall it didnt set one the last time modding was made legal here (same case, different year). Hopefully it does have a positive impact on game prices here though, as most new release games retail for around $65 US. This would make importing from the US a truly viable option (not only do you get the game earlier, you get it cheaper too).

[Buyatari]

doesn't circumvent copyright, and neither does putting a chip in my Xbox. Putting cracked software on my xbox does.

If the chip you put in doesn't bypass the copyright protection then why would bother to put it in there?

[evildead2099]

doesn't circumvent copyright, and neither does putting a chip in my Xbox. Putting cracked software on my xbox does.

If the chip you put in doesn't bypass the copyright protection then why would bother to put it in there?

To bypass DVD-region codes, to have your Xbox run off an alternative Operating System (i.e. Linux), etc

[esquire]

doesn't circumvent copyright, and neither does putting a chip in my Xbox. Putting cracked software on my xbox does.

If the chip you put in doesn't bypass the copyright protection then why would bother to put it in there?

To bypass DVD-region codes, to have your Xbox run off an alternative Operating System (i.e. Linux), etc

This raises an interesting question. Why would chip modding a piece of hardware be considered illegal, yet software and hardware accessories such as Freeloader for the Gamecube, Gameshark for the PS1/Ps2, and that Magic Key for the PS2 (allows you to open your Ps2 disk tray to swap disks) are all sold on the open market legally? They both accomplish the same thing.

My guess it has something to do with the chip itself. That some code in the chip is the actual violation, not the act of modding the console. That's just my two cents.

[Captain J]

Modding in the U.S is legal. Don't get anyone tell you different.

Modding is not legal. You might not get arrested. You might not get convicted. No one might even care that you do but under the DMCA "circumventing copy protection" is specificly addressed and it is illegal.

Putting a giant pink dildo inside my xbox doesn't circumvent copyright, and neither does putting a chip in my Xbox. Putting cracked software on my xbox does.

ROFL

[Mangar]

If console modding is legal then why is Sony able to sue retailers who mod consoles for their customers. Also why does eBay remove all auctions of modded consoles (if they catch them)?

For the same reason i can sue Mcdonalds for serving coffee that's too hot, or i can sue my neighbor for not mowing his lawn quickly enough. You can sue anyone for anything. That don't mean the infraction is illegal or against the law however. It also don't mean i'm going to win.

Ebay tends to bow to company requests. It has nothing to do with it being illegal. I remember the online game Everquest used to have auctions up on Ebay, until the company flipped out, threatened and harassed ebay - And Ebay agreed to take down all auctions for EQ 1 characters and gold. Instead players just moved there stuff to a different auction site(www.playerauctions.com) and that became the home for that sort of thing. When Sony came around, they gave Sony the middle finger - and there was really fuck-all Sony could do about it. Nowadays: Sony opened it's own auction site for it's players, and charges a fee.

My point is that Ebay's policies and civil suits rarely have any bearing on actual law. A large company can try use bully tactics and attempt to scare people into thinking something is illegal(As they have successfully done here, just based on the few people who think modding their OWN console is illegal) - But that don't make it so. As of now, in the United States, it is quite legal to modify you're game console, computer, blender, toaster, television, mattress, etc.. - As a consumer, you have the right to alter what is your own personal property. You are quite protected by existing law in this regard.

[hex65000]

A couple of thoughts:

I don't see anything in Aus. affecting US copyright policy. We have our own corporate masters to please. ;v]

Modchips: I gotta admit, the XBox modchip scene is surprisingly sophisticated. One of these days I gotta break down and buy one for the designated system. There are so many choices and even then, I only have a few requirements that I want to meet:

Region Free: I agree, the person(s) responsible for continuing this policy need a severe beating in their lifetime for what they've inflicted on the market. If I buy an original from another region, I have bought the 'licence' and should have the right to play/view it. No bones about it. I'm yet to see a compelling argument for region coding other than the language barrier (expected) and greed. (expected) Although, this is preaching to the choir.
Ripping games to the Hard drive: Now of course, this gets fuzzy and prone to abuse in the form of piracy. I concede that. I picked up one of the HD loader discs for the PS2, not so I could rent-n-rip games all day, but to keep the wear on my CD drive to a minimum, cut down most load times, and just keep my _original_ media out of harm's way. I hate having to wait for a game to load between segments or stages, especially if I have to do it over and over again.

For example:
Playing Katamari off the HD chops the stage load time to just a few seconds. If I want to play stages over and over, I'd rather spend less time waiting on the load and more time playing the game itself.
Now, I spent a good part of the morning playing Burnout 3. It's a bit old, in terms of desirability, but since I truly _suck_ at this game, I find myself reloading tracks pretty regularly. First of all, I'm not sure what it's reloading exactly, and I hate wasting time staring at the 'have you tried boosting?' screen. I want to drive, and crash, and be a public nuciance. :D As soon as I get the means this game is going on the biggest HD my X-Crate can support and I'm putting the disc away.

Now. As far as I'm concerned, there are no injured parties with the exception of my time 'wasted' staring at loading screens and my deck has to constantly load the same chunk of data for the umpteenth time because I got 'taken down' from bloody out of nowhere and I just restart the race.
I own the originals (and plan to keep them) -- manuals are my friend. Some games are bought used so the publishers aren't losing any money here, nor am I selling games back or returning them post-ripping. (see above)

So in this context and perhaps the creation of a homebrew community, I see nothing wrong with 'chipping' stuff. It's blatent piracy that causes problems.

However, I do have a nice NES EMU collection. and about 50 original carts. This was more of a space constraint than anything else, and remains the exception with me rather than the rule.

Hex.
[ There I've said it and I still don't care ... ]

[tarheelsnipe]

Putting a giant pink dildo inside my xbox doesn't circumvent copyright

What about a blue one? LOL

I vividly remember the folks at G4 TechTV devoting a 15 minute segment to the Xbox-Linux mod. They're still around, and i didn't hear anything about a fine or even a lawsuit. I mean, if it's really unlawful, you'd think Xecuter, SmartXX, and Xenium makers would have been out of business long ago. There's apparently a more convincing argument on the chip devs' sides than the Evil Empire's side. Maybe there's a lawsuit in the making, but to date the chips are still selling in the US.

[Griking]

Putting a giant pink dildo inside my xbox doesn't circumvent copyright

What about a blue one? LOL

I vividly remember the folks at G4 TechTV devoting a 15 minute segment to the Xbox-Linux mod. They're still around, and i didn't hear anything about a fine or even a lawsuit.

That's because G4 wasn't selling the mod, they were just doing a story about it. There's a big difference. Newspapers aren't arrested for doing stories about drug dealers.

Didn't Sony sue some company (Lik Sang?) a while back for selling mod chipsor something? I also seem to recall another story where some mom and pop videogame store was basically put out of business by Sony because they were selling and installing console mod chips. I think this was in the PS1 era but I may be wrong.

[dreamcaster]

whoever invented the idea of region-locking, fuck you.
You can heartily thank Nintendo for that one. :roll:

They introduced region lockouts for their cartridges on the NES.

[chrisbid]

the DMCA is flat out copyright abuse, its the government giving companies the right to control their content AFTER the customer buys it. when lexmark can sue people that refill printer cartridges, things have gotten out of hand.

[dj898]

the Feds will amend copyright law in line with US counterapart as a part of trade agreement anyway...

this will be short lived victory me think... :(

[rbudrick]

Putting a giant pink dildo inside my xbox doesn't circumvent copyright, and neither does putting a chip in my Xbox. Putting cracked software on my xbox does.

Quote of the week!!! LOL LOL LOL


If I buy a Japanese Ps2, am I circumventing the copyright laws?

What if I take the electronics out of it and put them in my American case?

If modding is illegal, I think there is some major grey area. Besides, buying region free DVD players is not illegal, why would modding one be?

Instead of arguing whether it's legal or not, someone post the law.

-Rob

[Amy Rose]

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!!

Katamari Damacy, here I come!!!!

This is the greatest news ever. I missed the mod wagon the first time around. Now I can finally import without importing a console! I know I coulda got a PS2 modded beforehand, but that would have been illegal >_>

:D

[tarheelsnipe]

That's because G4 wasn't selling the mod, they were just doing a story about it. There's a big difference. Newspapers aren't arrested for doing stories about drug dealers.

Didn't Sony sue some company (Lik Sang?) a while back for selling mod chipsor something? I also seem to recall another story where some mom and pop videogame store was basically put out of business by Sony because they were selling and installing console mod chips. I think this was in the PS1 era but I may be wrong.

Perhaps I didn't elaborate. The copyright protection was not circumvented. It's still there on the system bios ... untouched. The firmware that M$ developed (XDK) is 100% intact. The modchips that are sold through legitimate retailers are pre-flashed with a perfectly legal Linux BIOS (SDK). So, when I boot up with my Linux BIOS, 250GB hard drive, and my Xbox Media Center dash appears, I can listen to all of my Milli Vanilli mp3s and watch all of my Full House mpegs with a clear conscience, knowing that the M$ XDK is safe (and unused) on my Xbox.

Imagine buying a PC at Best Buy, and they make you agree to only run a M$ supported OS and their Pheonix BIOS. That's not exactly fair to the consumer, yet that sounds like the argument I'm seeing replicated here.

And ... The Mom and Pop store you're refering to was in New Jersey. They were selling modded Xbox consoles with ILLEGAL hacked bioses and upgraded hard drives with enough pirated software to make the Chinese jealous. Plus, they were demo-ing them in the store. I think they were selling for $600 a pop.

[njiska]

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!!

Katamari Damacy, here I come!!!!

This is the greatest news ever. I missed the mod wagon the first time around. Now I can finally import without importing a console! I know I coulda got a PS2 modded beforehand, but that would have been illegal >_>

:D

You mean you haven't been playing Katamari all this time? You should've told me i would've hooked you up.

It's cool that the Aussies get legal mod chips, but i'm still just happy to live in a country with legal free music downloading off the web (Fuck You record industry). Besides it's not like illegal mod chips should really scare anyone. It's the manufacturers and dealers that get in crap, not the users.

My xbox is happily modded (for emu purposes) and i've never feared a cop.