Pac-Man Collection Development Forum...

[opcode]

I am still hard in the work programming the ColecoVision ports of Pac-Man and Ms Pac-Man.
Pac-Man now features all sounds and music, but I am not completely happy with the scheme I am currently using. I am thinking about a new scheme, but it would require a complete rewrite of the sound routines. Well, no pain no gain...

Bellow are new screenshots. The opening screen are almost the same as before, but now the layout is definitive. Beside that, the screen were taken using MESS, which previously didn't run PMC.
The game screen layout is done too (but still running just in Adamem). I am also including the dots maze layout, which isn't symetric like in the arcade. It is so cause the CV Pac-Man uses 6x6 virtual characters for the maze, instead the usual 8x8. It brings a lot of complications but the final result is much more faithtful. This dot maze will be direct mapped (it means, every 8x8 character in the maze is represented by an unique character in memory. It is so to allow graphic shapes to be superimposed over the dots (in this case, the ghost eyes).
Just for comparison, I have posted a arcade screenshot too.
More as it evolves...


Eduardo Mello

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/p55174d87c2ed6741aa19b9bb172ce444/fcb78950.gif http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/p6b7177e09862dee1bede029a7f3b7963/fcb7894d.gif
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/p7b0121ff070f20f17b60c996fb2c06d5/fcb7894a.gif http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/p17dd423949257d7d3a4f745aeac6461f/fcb78908.gif
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/p02fd37fd872a4480138359e07b07d205/fcb787df.gif

[newcoleco]

Excuse me but I think you forgot something about the screen. On some TV, each side of the screen are not fully visible.

I received e-mails two years ago about DACMAN. Some of you can't see well the screen in DACPONG! (like PONG with paddle on each side of the screen).

So, I think you must relocate the maze in your pacman project.

[Aswald]

True- on a television screen, things should be kept away from the very edges. Most ColecoVision owners use such televisions.

But, so far, it looks remarkable. If only such attention to detail had been given to the third-generation systems back in the 1980s, then the NES would not have stood much of a chance! Imagine how much better Time Pilot or especially Mr. Do! would've been!

The only problem with the ColecoVision Joust is a lack of sound, the only thing keeping it from being complete. Could sound be added so that there is another completed "lost" game for the ColecoVision?

[opcode]

A little update:

I am working on the Ms Pac-Man screens layout. I need to do it now, as it will influence the remaning development...
Ms Pac-Man is little bit more complicated than Pac-Man, as the mazes are dual colored. The CV isn't capable of generating more than 2 colors per character line (8 pixels), so I am planning a little trick: the idea is to interleave 2 screens to produce more colors. The interleaving must be very fast (60 frames per second), so the image will look steady. I have already tested it with some screens and it looks very nice. Just the maze border shows a little flickering.
Bellow is a sample: notice a frame has the maze border and the other one doesn't have. Displaying each frames alternately every 1/60s will produce something similar to image #3, which is very close to the arcade original screen...
I have also included the dots layout mask, just for reference...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/p58c2e1311d5060ecc608c68d5828f8e0/fcb74165.gif http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/p7e586a79a3066296adf5053ceb998f5e/fcb74166.gif
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/p314191264e4e6d7d0815f579a77ccede/fcb74164.gif
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/pa96ee06ece1469dd1d73b94580b24b52/fcb73d21.gif

Eduardo Mello

[Aswald]

Is that method similar to the technique used on the ColecoVision Dig Dug characters?

It looks absolutely magnificent so far. If these games appear on a cartridge, then it'll most certainly be a "must have." Along with the Space Invaders Collection, of course, and Bejeweled.

It's a good time again to be a ColecoVision owner!

[opcode]

Here is a more faithful version for the first Ms Pac-Man maze.

I have included both frames and the resulting image. I also created a small test program to check the resulting screen and it looks almost identical to picture #3. I now must check the resulting effect on a TV set...


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/pf8249bec8c3cbb4c139c362e826b7350/fcb5f985.gif http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/p5ffdda884088a79d88dea54508433eef/fcb5f88b.gif
Frames

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/p17631601616e3f6e6d43f952f36db525/fcb5f70a.gif
Mix

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/p0af210e13041b3220dcc6719191fc5bb/fcb5f963.gif
Arcade

Eduardo Mello

[newcoleco]

It's looking great!
Same remark about the TV screen.

And about the color simulation, this remember me my experiments earlier this year about having more colors than the actual 15 colours palette. And don't worry about the result on a real ColecoVision and TV set, it will be as good as you think it will be.

Continue your great job!

Daniel B.

[Aswald]

Whoa, ho-ho, move over Atari 7800 and NES versions, THAT will be the best out there!

[Zaxxon]

Hi Eduardo,
I don't know how hard this would be but it would be great if you could add easier difficulty settings than the 2 included in the arcade ROM, HARD and Normal. It's too difficult for me on the normal setting. I can last about 5 levels max. I never memorized the patterns.

[opcode]

I don't know how hard this would be but it would be great if you could add easier difficulty settings than the 2 included in the arcade ROM, HARD and Normal. It's too difficult for me on the normal setting. I can last about 5 levels max. I never memorized the patterns.

It would be easy. Pac-Man is nicely programmed and the difficult settings are very configurable.
When it comes the time to beta testing, we could define each difficult level properties... More later....

Eduardo

[digitalpress]

It just looks INCREDIBLE, Eduardo.

Than again, I expect that from you!

Keep us posted! I can't wait to OWN this and the Space Invaders game. If you need a distributor, look me up!

[opcode]

Keep us posted! I can't wait to OWN this and the Space Invaders game. If you need a distributor, look me up!

Really?! :D
I have a few plans... I will send you an e-mail tomorrow. Right now I need some sleep..... -_-

Eduardo

[opcode]

Hi!

A more Ms Pac-Man maze:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/p496d1234fa3069fc3f2775e9c289586e/fcb0d779.gif http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/pd77636ca087fdd590f108330815d2eae/fcb0d776.gif
Frames

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/pb8f591cc8c1139a3d4f92dfc84d4a2e3/fcb0d775.gif
Resulting screen

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/p88348abbdfc9f61422a9d5921ae03055/fcb0d772.gif
Maze mask

Eduardo Mello

[opcode]

Hi!

I would wish some help of you guys. I am now working on the ghosts sprites and it would be nice if you could help me choosing that ghost shapes you think is the best.
Bellow are three versions for the ghost. The first one is from the arcade and I will be using it for all opening and intermissions (I have deliberately darkened the ghost eyes so it doesn't influence any decision).
The second one is a reduced version I have created. All mazes have been reduced by 25%, so the ghosts will need to be reduced too.
The last version is from PSX Namco Museum, which does use the same reduction factor.
Which reduced version do you think is better?


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid49/p6939ea996d040852e28b33adcd10bbcb/fcb0c7bf.gif

Thanks,

Eduardo Mello

[digitalpress]

I choose "ColecoVision Version 1". It looks closer to the top row (from my eyes).

[Arcade Antics]

I vote for CV version 1 as well.

Keep up the great work!! :-D

[ventrra]

I'll second that opinion.
I'd say that the Namco Museum version just looks odd.

[Raedon]

man this looks great!

[Raccoon Lad]

Overall, Colecovision version1 looks better, but the second ghost image from colecovision version 2 looks more like the first ghost image from the arcade version. Perhaps you could combine Coleco V2 ghost 2, and Coleco V1 Ghost 2 into an animation.

[newcoleco]

Joe is right! the version 1 is the best one!

[Aswald]

Version 1.

[opcode]

Yesterday I finished Pac-Man and Ms Pac-Man music.
I have never really realized how limited in frequency range the CV sound chip is. I had already had a few problems with the invaders march sound in Space Invaders (very deep bass), but now I have also found this chip isn't capable of simulating perfectly the sound of Pac-Man.
To start with, the Pac-Man arcade sound chip is able to generate several waveforms, but the CV just generates square waves. So the sound texture will differ a little.
And I was forced to raise an octave or two for each music piece because the CV wasn't able to produce the same deep bass accompaniments as the original game.
Aside it, the music sounds the same, with perfect arcade timing and even the same volume decays. Since I can't post a snapshot of the music here :) (and a mp3 file would be too big) I am thinking about posting a little demo latter... Maybe tonight or tomorrow..
This way you guys would give me a little feedback.

Eduardo Mello

[ManekiNeko]

ColecoVision version 1, easily.
Can't wait to hear the music!

JR

[opcode]

Here is the first Pac-Man demo.
For now it will just play music. All Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man music pieces have been included, and you just need to run it in a good CV emulator. I would suggest MESS, as it has the best CV sound emulation around.
To play the tracks just press 1 to 6 in the CV keyboard (keys 1 - 6 in MESS). Music will play... Simple like that... :)
Pac-Man has two tracks and Ms PM has four.
About the sound quality, as I said before, don't expect arcade perfect sound here. The PM arcade features 8 different waveforms and the CV just allows square waves. Also, the frequency range is a lot wider in arcade, so I was forced to raise one or two octaves here. That means the music will be a little higher pitched than the original.
As a last note: Pac-Man is indeed louder than Ms. Pac-Man. The original arcades work this way, so it isn't a bug... ;)

http://www.geocities.com/vgbelloq/pac.zip

Enjoy and please send me comments.

Eduardo Mello

[Zaxxon]

I know you only have four channels to work with but have you tried layering two channels to create one sound you couldn't create with one channel, like on a synthesizer? I think it sounds good as it is right now. Sounds better than Atari's version.

I wonder if it's possible like it is on other systems and how hard and expensive it would be to add an additional chip to the cart for enhanced sound capabilities. If they could do it for Pitfall 2 on the 2600 I don't see why it couldn't be done on CV.

[newcoleco]

Also, the frequency range is a lot wider in arcade, so I was forced to raise one or two octaves here.

I think you forgot something : the noise channel can be used like a 4th channel ... to play some notes (loud notes). So you may not have to raise one or two octaves finally.

[newcoleco]

I listened your "pacman music demo" and it remembered me the music demo I have done a few years ago for the colecovision with pacman and ms pacman musics.

Some of you have probably already this rom for the colecovision :

Music Vol 1 by Daniel Bienvenu (2000) (PD)

[opcode]

I wonder if it's possible like it is on other systems and how hard and expensive it would be to add an additional chip to the cart for enhanced sound capabilities. If they could do it for Pitfall 2 on the 2600 I don't see why it couldn't be done on CV.

I am already checking availability for 2 Yamaha sound chips: a 6 channel square wave generator with 8 ADPCM channels and a 16 channels 2-operators FM chip. My plans are to include both chips and an extra Z-80 along a few other hardwares into a new "expansion module".
The problem with Namco sound chip is it is a very unique and sophisticated sound generator. It allows for programmable waveforms like a kind of PCM. The only other sound chip similar to it I am aware was Konami's SCC, which was used in a lot of MSX games. But those chips were custom made, so no chance to find them now.
Combining channels would be a good solution, but the CV has just 3 channels and a noise channel capable of just 3 different noise frequencies...
The General Instruments PSG AY-3-8910 (used in MSX and Intellivision) would be a good choise for a cheap sound ic, but it would just solve the frequency issue...


I think you forgot something : the noise channel can be used like a 4th channel ... to play some notes (loud notes). So you may not have to raise one or two octaves finally.
But the noise channel is just able to generate 3 different noises, right? How would it be possible to produce lower frequencies without distorting the sound?

[newcoleco]

But the noise channel is just able to generate 3 different noises, right? How would it be possible to produce lower frequencies without distorting the sound?

No the noise channel can be used to produce lower frequencies. It's documented and already used in many commercial ColecoVision games. Did you ever try the Adam Music Box ROM? There is a music with this special "mode" for the noise channel.

If I understand well the documentation, you can use the noise channel to produce notes with lower frequencies by using the data of the 3rd sound channel. I never tested this... but I experimented this with the ROM "noise generator" by Marcel de Kogel.

[opcode]

No the noise channel can be used to produce lower frequencies. It's documented and already used in many commercial ColecoVision games. Did you ever try the Adam Music Box ROM? There is a music with this special "mode" for the noise channel.

If I understand well the documentation, you can use the noise channel to produce notes with lower frequencies by using the data of the 3rd sound channel. I never tested this... but I experimented this with the ROM "noise generator" by Marcel de Kogel.

Ahhhh... Good, good... I remember I found something strange while I was working on the SIC sound.... Really interesting...
Maybe a good topic to post in the CV Programming list..

Thanks a lot Dan!

Eduardo Mello

[digitalpress]

I wonder if this is what it was like back in the day. Except instead of Crane and Cartwright we've got Mello and Bienvenu.

It's not far from fact.

[opcode]

Here is a new build. This time I have placed all melody channels in the right octave, but accompaniment is still 2 octaves above, since it has already reached the bottom for the CV frequency range.
I also corrected a small error in the end of Ms. Pac-Man's first intermission track.

http://www.geocities.com/vgbelloq/pac002.zip

Latter today I will try that little trick Dan has suggested me...

Eduardo Mello

[Raccoon Lad]

The Ms. Pac-Man tunes sound great! The Pac-Man music sounds MUCH better than the Atarisoft Pac-man prototype, but it still sounds a little off.

Great work so far!

[Arcade Antics]

I wonder if this is what it was like back in the day. Except instead of Crane and Cartwright we've got Mello and Bienvenu.

It's not far from fact.

I dare say this is *exactly* what it was like back in the day. Two talented guys tossing ideas back and forth, reinventing the wheel when necessary and coming up with all kinds of clever tricks to get the job done, and done WELL.

And this time we get to see it all go down. :-D Thanks guys!

"This is like cre-a-tivity IN ACTION..."
-Steve Martin

[Aswald]

This computer cannot play the sounds, but I'm not worried. You just KNOW it'll sound fine.

[newcoleco]

I never change my mind about Coleco programming. And I always help everyone when it's possible... and after, I feel very happy. :D

I have done a ColecoVision web page with many of my tools and some informations about ColecoVision. It was a lot of work.

:-D "We always need more ColecoVision game designer." :-D

And I don't think I will create new ColecoVision games for the rest of my life.

I think it's normal here to exchange informations in this forum and this topic is clearly about a ColecoVision project. I was sure it's why we use this forum.

My way is programming in C by using hi-tech C compiler for CP/M and the Coleco library by Marcel de Kogel. So, I may have a problem to help someone with his Coleco project writen in ASM. :/

I say good luck to Eduardo Mello in his Coleco projects.

I say thanks to everyone who tried and try again to release new ColecoVision games.

Keep the ColecoVision alive! 8-)

[opcode]

Hi again,

Dan Bienvenu has suggested me to use the noise channel in order to generate deeper bass sound. Indeed there is a noise mode which does produce frequencies 8 times lower than the corresponding standard mode. It means 3 octaves below. I tried it and it works but....
The sound quality is a little odd. Sounds like something right out of the 2600 (no offence here, it's just I am not used to this kind of sound in the CV) . Pitfall's "Tarzan cry" tune is a good example. Or maybe the drummer in Pooyan. The problem is the waveform is now more like small peaks inside big valleys. The standard mode uses square wave.
Anyway I have included the demo.
Also, it is my last post about Pac-Man Collection for the next few months.
No, it doesn't mean I am leaving. I will be hard in the work readying some few surprises in time for PhillyClassic and CGE. I will resume PMC after that and hopefully it will be ready till year's end.
Wait for a few announcements soon. Till there, thanks for everyone here for the support, encouragement and help.
See you guys!

http://www.geocities.com/vgbelloq/pac003.zip

Eduardo Mello

[Zaxxon]

But the noise channel is just able to generate 3 different noises, right? How would it be possible to produce lower frequencies without distorting the sound?

No the noise channel can be used to produce lower frequencies. It's documented and already used in many commercial ColecoVision games. Did you ever try the Adam Music Box ROM? There is a music with this special "mode" for the noise channel.


This mode is clearly used in the music for Omega Race. Listen to the four-part harmony at the end of Omega Race or in the Music Box demo. Also, the game has a similar low bass, bum-bum....bum, during gameplay, just like Space Invaders(hint, hint). ;)

[Aswald]

No, newcoleco- say it isn't so! You CAN'T quit now! What about Chateau Du Dragon? Reversi? And especially Specktank?

By the way, is the use of too many variables (e.g. A=20: A=A+1) capable of messing up a BASIC program? It's why I use PEEKs and POKEs:

REM Fox Position
32000+((PEEK33000)*32)+(PEEK(33001))

Where 33000 holds the "Y" coordinate and 33001 holds the "X" coordinate.

Movement is accomplished by changing the values in those two locations, and, using the "line maze" method, on almost any computer- especially a Commodore 64- you can treat the maze as if the screen is only 32 spaces across, or, for that matter, almost any number!

[Raccoon Lad]

For some reason I can't hear the accompanyment in the music in this new version. Maybe I just need to download a better emulator (I'm using the newest MEKA)

[newcoleco]

I tested your pac003.zip file and I must admit that you didn't use well the noise channel. The frequencies are too low! I know you can do better than that.

Aswald, when you will be ready to start programming your game in C, I will teach you how to start a new ColecoVision project.

I have done more ColecoVision games than everyone here, I think I can quit after this year to let new Coleco game designers release new games.

MY "COLECO" CV :

1995 - (my first contact with the internet)
1996 - (not enough information about Coleco programming) :(
1997 - Killer Instinct (hacked version of Purple Dinosaur Massacre)
1998 - Working on tools (for DOS)
1999 - Breakout
2000 - Air Battle (hidden Breakout v2)
2000 - DACMAN [cartridge]
2000 - BustIn-Out [cartridge]
2000 - NIM
2000 - Spectank (still in alpha version)
2000 - Amazing Snake (I helped Serge-Eric Tremblay during all the programming part) [cartridge]
2001 - Working on tools (for Windows)
2001 - Double Breakout (available soon?)
2001 - Ms Space Fury [cartridge]
2001 - Happy Halloween (working name for Jeepers Creepers)
2001 - Bejeweled (final version released in 2002) [cartridge]
2001 - Reversi (still buggy)
2002 - Chateau du dragon (an unfinished text adventure demo)
2002 - 421 (I helped Mathieu Proulx with one sound and the animation of dices and also with the title screen) [cartridge]
2002 - Valentine's Day
2002 - GamePack : 13-in-1 (13 new little games) [cartridge]
2003 - Mickey (picture in 120 colors?)
2003 - ?? release some of my unfinished old Coleco projects ??

[Aswald]

It would help if I could find a straightforward programmer's emulator I could get running on these fool machines here...

I HAVE been able to get one of your ColecoVision tools running- I believe it allows one to design Sprites.

I've also gotten this running:

http://www.geocities.com/newcoleco/emulators/koleko_vos.zip

But not much else, I'm afraid. Even with a disk, these computers just give you the runaround. I'll keep trying, though.

[newcoleco]

Hello Aswald!

I can't work on a straightforward programmers' book for two reasons :

1 - If I want to release new Coleco games this year, I have to concentrate my energy in programming my own Coleco projects.

2 - There is not "one pattern" on how to program a ColecoVision game. The only pattern I can see is the following one based on my experience.

" Before starting programming a new Coleco project, you must think about what you want to do and how it could be done (you have to know about limits of the sound and video chips). Draw some sketch on paper first and/or use tools to do a non playable version. After that, start programming a few versions by adding one new thing at a time, so you will be able to undo a bad coding and find the problems before the beta testers. Ask for help if you can't fix the bugs in your program. Ask friends to test your game and wait for feedback and comments. Try to adjust the game based on (some) comments and optimize the code to create an arcade quality game. Burn and test the rom to see if the result is ok. Fix bugs for the last time and adjust the game parameters to increase the challenge. Do cartridges version of your game. Note : Never talk about your game to everyone before the beta testers have tried the game, otherwise you will stress until the cartridges will be done. "

Good luck!

[Aswald]

That's more or less how I programmed several games on the Vic-20 and Commodore 64; Tunelayer was an early effort.

The version of Island of Foxes that I will program has been revised using (most) of the methods you mentioned, including the "where-is-the-thing-I-found"

*Origin is 10 West; 4 South.
*Woora is 7 East; 5 North.

and a couple of changes in the dangers you face in mazes, as well as the addition of the Mist-Marshes and Mirawrans within.

The line-maze (1-dimensional maze) method is the best though- you can easily fit a 16X16 maze on a string of 256 Bytes, just as if you were only storing 256 numbers somewhere- it's a great memory-saver, allows you to put these things in places where you couldn't normally fit them, and allows you to use any number for up and down movement (such as 32 on a Commodore 64, instead of 40!). Yae!

The problem I'm having here is that I don't even have anything with which I CAN program a ColecoVision game. Most emulators I cannot get running here. I've found nothing that allows one to type in a program as if one was programming on a ColecoVision. It's like my current problem with the Commodore 64: I don't have one with which to program. Even most of your tools will not run here.

And I don't know how to program for a ColecoVision- only IBMs and Commodore computers. I have had no luck finding manuals anywhere. Not even on-line. Nothing.

[newcoleco]

Aswald... I think we are off topic right now. We must start this discussion in another "thread". ;)