The Underutilization Of The SNES

[CaryMG]

"Donkey Kong Country" with it's ray traced graphics & CD quality sound ....

"Stunt Race FX" with it's polygonal freespace engine ....

"Out Of This World", "Wing Commander" & "DOOM" -- computer smash hits ported effortlessly to the SNES ....

This machine was way ahead of the pack & it's time.
The worlds that could've been created & explored ....
*sigh*

Imagine "Damocles" -- an AMIGA landmark -- on the SNES ....

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/softBoy/Damocles.gif

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/softBoy/Damocles2.gif

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/softBoy/Damocles3.gif

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/softBoy/Damocles4.gif

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/softBoy/Damocles5.gif

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/softBoy/Damocles6.gif

I was so psyched about making a 3D polygonal world to explore for the SNES that I wrote Nintendo a letter asking how you go about making games for it.
They were nice enough to write back & say that you give them the game on a floppy, they play it & see if it's worthwhile, then give you permission to make cartridges.
I wrote again remarking that I thought -- at the dawn of the "Nintendo64" -- the SNES never reached it's full potential.
They responded again & said they completely agreed! lol

So what do you guys think?
Was the SNES the greatest "Golden Age" console that was never used all it's power?


Later!
:) :) :)

[Blanka789]

In all fairness, it did compete with the Saturn and Playstation before the N64 came out. And who knows, maybe they were waiting to use that kind of power in conjunction with the cd-rom add-on. LOL

[roushimsx]

Heh, i think nostalgia is getting the better of you, man. The Doom port and Stunt Race FX, both of which had to use custom chips to even run, ran like pure crap. Hell, Doom used TWO SuperFX ccores running at 10.5mhz each and still ran and looked like ass.

and as has been said in previous threads, Donky Kong Country didn't do anything special for its graphics...they're just sprites. The artists may have raytraced them on a development machine and then built the sprites from the renderings, but that doesn't mean the SNES did anything special because ...hey...sprites are sprites! I mean, if you think it did something special because it displayed those, imagine how powerful it was do be able to display those hand drawn graphics in Yoshi's Island! There's a bunch of animators living in the SNES and SuperFX2 hand drawing stuff to your screen!

...or not.

[fishsandwich]

I agree with you, man. I think the SNES had some more juice in it but was a complicated machine... therefore, developers had a tougher time with it then they did the simple Genesis. Remember the slowdown of early shooters and sports games? Deveopers finally got the hang of the machine at the end, but I don't think too many games pushed it to its limits.

I think more advanced FX chips (or a combination of several chips) would have brought out even more cool SNES goodness. I so wish Comanche had come out. I saw a video of it running at a TRU demo station and I wanted to play it so much, even if it did look like shit. I know that adding a bunch of expensive chips to a cart really doesn't qualify as "pushing the hardware" but it's still cool... I don't know of any other console that used extra chips in its carts to achieve extra performance like the SNES did. The Genny only did it once with Virtua Racing. There were a bunch of chipped SNES games.

BTW... i'm not a Nintendo OR Sega fanboy. I have both colnsoles and recognize they both has their own respective strengths and weaknesses. Both are awesome systems.

[badinsults]

The Snes did have some rather complicated games. For instance, look at Super Metroid. The compression schemes that were used to get the varied environments in are so crazy, that there is a loading time between each room. Then there is games like Tales of Phantasia that have incredible voice acting. Or what about Dragon Quest 6, quite possibly one of the largest games ever made.

[jajaja]

Please fix the screenshots :) Want to see.

[zerohero]

Um Donkey Kong, and Diddy were not sprits last time I checked. They used a technique where they just "wire mapped", the 3d characters. So when you play the game, the characters were fully 3d. The backgrouind was semi 3d, more 2d ish etc. That what they said on the Nintendo Power Tape I have.

[evildead2099]

... "DOOM" -- all PC smash hits ported effortlessly to the SNES ....

Hardly. I agree with roushimsx:


Heh, i think nostalgia is getting the better of you, man. The Doom port and Stunt Race FX, both of which had to use custom chips to even run, ran like pure crap. Hell, Doom used TWO SuperFX ccores running at 10.5mhz each and still ran and looked like ass.

If you want to talk about an underutilized device, talk about the 32X or the Sega CD. SNES hardware was milked pretty well; the console was even treated to a (legit) port of Street Fighter Alpha 2!

[CaryMG]

Pics are fixed now.
Sorry about that ....


Later!
:) :) :)

[MegaManFan]

I'm going to disagree here, I'm a disagreeable sort of chap to agrees to disagree about anything not agreeable, so can we agree on that? But seriously, no. The SNES was fully utilized and reached it's potential. How can I say that? Not only are a lot of my all-time favorite video games on the platform, SNES games routinely get ported to the Advance and are still just as much fun on the small screen. So I say nay - Nintendo got it right and everything the SNES was meant to do, it did do. If you disagree write some homebrews for it. ;)

[hydr0x]

Um Donkey Kong, and Diddy were not sprits last time I checked. They used a technique where they just "wire mapped", the 3d characters. So when you play the game, the characters were fully 3d. The backgrouind was semi 3d, more 2d ish etc. That what they said on the Nintendo Power Tape I have.

no, they are sprites, and the backgrounds are just your standard snes layers too

[CaryMG]

If you disagree write some homebrews for it. ;)

Not that I disagree, but how do I write homebrews for the SNES?

Man -- I've an absolute TON of way cool 3D polygonal enviornment ideas!


Later!
:) :) :)

[Sothy]

why the hell would you do 3d stuff on snes?

I agree its a cool system but go back and look at the framerates on 3dish games like star fox and stunt race.

and donkey kong country was 2d sorry. It was pretty but not 3d.

[dementia_]

Rendering Ranger looked as good as Pulstar or Blazing Star for the Neo. The SNES had a lot of untapped power.

[zerohero]

So did anyone actually get to play this game Damocles? How was the fram rate? I remember games like that moving real slow at times.

Anyway, if they could pull that off on a 16 bit console, and the game still plays well, and is detailed, then I must say it had some extra un tapped potential at the time.

Which makes me wonder why It couldn't produce arcade perfect ports like the Neo Geo? I mean I know the Neo Geo had a two processors to handle difference aspects of the system, but if the snes can produce games like this, then it should be able to do the later :/

[hu6800]

It took 3 Nintendo systems and 3 Sega systems to compete with the Turbografx 16+cdrom .

[Blanka789]

It took 3 Nintendo systems and 3 Sega systems to compete with the Turbografx 16+cdrom .

Could you explain this?

[hydr0x]

Not that I disagree, but how do I write homebrews for the SNES?

:) :) :)

just learn snes/65c816 assembly, if you want to do it you should know something about x86 assembly already ;)

[hydr0x]

Which makes me wonder why It couldn't produce arcade perfect ports like the Neo Geo? I mean I know the Neo Geo had a two processors to handle difference aspects of the system, but if the snes can produce games like this, then it should be able to do the later :/

couple of reasons, first, it just can't handle that big (in Mbit) cartridges, which means that even with the best compression routines you can't get as much data into one game :(

then you have the obvious gpu differences (not too mention the fact that the neo geo has a faster cpu)

the neo geo could do a lot more sprites at the same time, far more colors at the same time and the max sprite size was bigger iirc

[CartCollector]

Well, there never was anything that used that bottom expansion port. So, maybe you could put a 65C816 (http://www.westerndesigncenter.com/wdc/w65c816s.cfm) down there with 16 megs or so of SRAM... Or maybe even an ARM7 (I'd reccommend the LPC2106 (http://www.standardics.philips.com/literature/leaflets/microcontrollers/pdf/lpc210x.pdf)), using those GPIO pins for some extra RAM space, maybe even for some co-processors... like other ARM7s...

Use those with a cart with a 2-SuperFX chip mapper, and that would be awesome. But I'm probably dreaming here.

[roushimsx]

If you want to talk about an underutilized device, talk about the 32X or the Sega CD. SNES hardware was milked pretty well; the console was even treated to a (legit) port of Street Fighter Alpha 2!

Quoted for truth. I didn't have much love for the SegaCD, but the 32x never got the love and respect it deserved from gamers or developers. Stuff like Stellar Assault / Shadow Squadron and DarXide gave a nice little look at what the machine was capable of.

To add insult to injury, the sequel to Stellar Assault (Stellar Assault SS) is a complete bitch to find for less than $150 :( One of these days I'll have to pony up the cash for it, because from what little I was able to play of it, I liked it a good bit :(

But back on topic, the SNES was pretty well tapped out. It sure did have a nice pallete, but my god was the CPU slow. The GPU did some nice tricks and whatnot (omg "Mode 7"), at least. Shame the Genesis was the exact opposite with a crappy pallete and an awesome CPU. Hell, you can even overclock the Genesis CPU to NeoGeo speeds (and beyond).

[zerohero]

If you want to talk about an underutilized device, talk about the 32X or the Sega CD. SNES hardware was milked pretty well; the console was even treated to a (legit) port of Street Fighter Alpha 2!

Quoted for truth. I didn't have much love for the SegaCD, but the 32x never got the love and respect it deserved from gamers or developers. Stuff like Stellar Assault / Shadow Squadron and DarXide gave a nice little look at what the machine was capable of.

To add insult to injury, the sequel to Stellar Assault (Stellar Assault SS) is a complete bitch to find for less than $150 :( One of these days I'll have to pony up the cash for it, because from what little I was able to play of it, I liked it a good bit :(

But back on topic, the SNES was pretty well tapped out. It sure did have a nice pallete, but my god was the CPU slow. The GPU did some nice tricks and whatnot (omg "Mode 7"), at least. Shame the Genesis was the exact opposite with a crappy pallete and an awesome CPU. Hell, you can even overclock the Genesis CPU to NeoGeo speeds (and beyond).

Whats this you speak of?

[roushimsx]

Whats this you speak of?

here you go (http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-11261_7-6298931-3.html). I remember hearing about N64 overclocking not long after the system came out, but I always kind of thought it was pointless...and then Rare started putting out some games with framerates in the teens... makes me wish I had hands steady enough to actually do the procedure.

[ice1605]

"Donkey Kong Country" with it's ray traced graphics & CD quality sound ....

"Stunt Race FX" with it's polygonal freespace engine ....

"Out Of This World", "Wing Commander" & "DOOM" -- computer smash hits ported effortlessly to the SNES ....

This machine was way ahead of the pack & it's time.
The worlds that could've been created & explored ....
*sigh*

Imagine "Damocles" -- an AMIGA landmark -- on the SNES ....

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/softBoy/Damocles.gif

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/softBoy/Damocles2.gif

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/softBoy/Damocles3.gif

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/softBoy/Damocles4.gif

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/softBoy/Damocles5.gif

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/softBoy/Damocles6.gif

I was so psyched about making a 3D polygonal world to explore for the SNES that I wrote Nintendo a letter asking how you go about making games for it.
They were nice enough to write back & say that you give them the game on a floppy, they play it & see if it's worthwhile, then give you permission to make cartridges.
I wrote again remarking that I thought -- at the dawn of the "Nintendo64" -- the SNES never reached it's full potential.
They responded again & said they completely agreed! lol

So what do you guys think?
Was the SNES the greatest "Golden Age" console that was never used all it's power?


Later!
:) :) :)

Here, here! I totally agree with you. Only the NES surpasses it! Game on!

Ice

[CosmicMonkey]

Yeah, I think the SNES got pushed pretty far. This may have involved extra chips, but still, Doom, Starfox and Stuntrace FX were pretty impressive for the time, considering these games are running on a slow 16bit processor.

I'd also say that the Megadrive got pushed to show it's full potential as some of the later games are very impressive. I do agree about the 32x and Mega CD though. There was certainly much more to the machine than got used and looking at lists of unreleased games is dissapointing to see what could have been.

I'd say that most of the major classic consoles got pushed pretty far. As for more recent machines, I'd say that the PSone was pulling off truly amazing graphics by the last gen of games. Virtua Fighter and Shenmue would have shown what the Saturn could do had they been unleased upon the world. And the N64 could have done so much more, had it not been limited from the offset by the storage media used.

[CaryMG]

So did anyone actually get to play this game Damocles?

Absotively! lol
It's a game for AMIGA.
Some geniuses took the time & effort to translate it bit for bit to work in "Windows".
Go here ta play it for free!! >"Damocles" (http://download.filefront.com/4260128;f409a5366a5ed978bd20f40c0d6ad0eb4d6349423b 93ed405692b8f6bc3efc2fd79b30aed2aab0a7)["MDDClone_23_EN.exe" is the file name! lol]
Here's the manual >"Damocles" Manual (http://download.filefront.com/4260136;f409a5366a5ed978bd20f40c0d6ad0eb4d6349423b 93ed405692b8f6bc3efc2fd79b30aed2aab0a7)


How was the frame rate? I remember games like that moving real slow at times.
As smooth as silk!
Play it & see!!



Later!
:) :) :)

[zerohero]

So did anyone actually get to play this game Damocles?

Absotively! lol
It's a game for AMIGA.
Some geniuses took the time & effort to translate it bit for bit to work in "Windows".
Go here ta play it for free!! > "Damocles" (http://download.filefront.com/4260128;f409a5366a5ed978bd20f40c0d6ad0eb4d6349423b 93ed405692b8f6bc3efc2fd79b30aed2aab0a7)["MDDClone_23_EN.exe" is the file name! lol]
Here's the manual > "Damocles" Manual (http://download.filefront.com/4260136;f409a5366a5ed978bd20f40c0d6ad0eb4d6349423b 93ed405692b8f6bc3efc2fd79b30aed2aab0a7)


How was the frame rate? I remember games like that moving real slow at times.
As smooth as silk!
Play it & see!!



Later!
:) :) :)


Well I looked up the name of the game on ebay, and got nothing.

[Bromhidrosis]

Which makes me wonder why It couldn't produce arcade perfect ports like the Neo Geo? I mean I know the Neo Geo had a two processors to handle difference aspects of the system, but if the snes can produce games like this, then it should be able to do the later :/

The Neo Geo was capable of arcade perfect ports because it was an arcade board in a box designed to be hooked up to a TV instead of inside an arcade machine.

[rbudrick]

The NES was underutilized too...hell, I know at least one company was working on 3d polygonal graphics for it...wish I could find the link...

-Rob

[zerohero]

The NES was underutilized too...hell, I know at least one company was working on 3d polygonal graphics for it...wish I could find the link...

-Rob

Captain SkyHawk is a game that I "think" used some 2d/3d sprits on the NES.

[zerohero]

So did anyone actually get to play this game Damocles?

Absotively! lol
It's a game for AMIGA.
Some geniuses took the time & effort to translate it bit for bit to work in "Windows".
Go here ta play it for free!! > "Damocles" (http://download.filefront.com/4260128;f409a5366a5ed978bd20f40c0d6ad0eb4d6349423b 93ed405692b8f6bc3efc2fd79b30aed2aab0a7)["MDDClone_23_EN.exe" is the file name! lol]
Here's the manual > "Damocles" Manual (http://download.filefront.com/4260136;f409a5366a5ed978bd20f40c0d6ad0eb4d6349423b 93ed405692b8f6bc3efc2fd79b30aed2aab0a7)


How was the frame rate? I remember games like that moving real slow at times.
As smooth as silk!
Play it & see!!



Later!
:) :) :)

Awsome, I'll play it later today!

[sabre2922]

The great SNES was pushed to its max IMO.

Also I agree that the 32X could have done soo much more if given the chance or if a powerhouse developer like the REAL Sonic team or Konami, Capcom etc had any interest in it at least enough so to develop a game for say a 9-12 month period Im sure the 32X could have been faaar more impressive than anyone thought possible.

The N64 could have been a monster of a machine at the time if Nintendo would have gone with the CD format.

[rbudrick]

Captain SkyHawk is a game that I "think" used some 2d/3d sprits on the NES.

Yes, I was referring to full 3-d, though. I think the fastest demos were running pretty slowly...10 fps or so, but I think they were working with the notion of adding a second processor to the cart....could be wrong, though.

-Rob

[Sothy]

Captain SkyHawk is a game that I "think" used some 2d/3d sprits on the NES.



Yes, I was referring to full 3-d, though. I think the fastest demos were running pretty slowly...10 fps or so, but I think they were working with the notion of adding a second processor to the cart....could be wrong, though.

Only 2 I can think of at all are Captain Skyhawk and Cobra Triangle.....

[googlefest1]

If you want to talk about an underutilized device, talk about the 32X or the Sega CD. SNES hardware was milked pretty well; the console was even treated to a (legit) port of Street Fighter Alpha 2!

Quoted for truth. I didn't have much love for the SegaCD, but the 32x never got the love and respect it deserved from gamers or developers. Stuff like Stellar Assault / Shadow Squadron and DarXide gave a nice little look at what the machine was capable of.

To add insult to injury, the sequel to Stellar Assault (Stellar Assault SS) is a complete bitch to find for less than $150 :( One of these days I'll have to pony up the cash for it, because from what little I was able to play of it, I liked it a good bit :(

But back on topic, the SNES was pretty well tapped out. It sure did have a nice pallete, but my god was the CPU slow. The GPU did some nice tricks and whatnot (omg "Mode 7"), at least. Shame the Genesis was the exact opposite with a crappy pallete and an awesome CPU. Hell, you can even overclock the Genesis CPU to NeoGeo speeds (and beyond).

Whats this you speak of?


i only know of overclocking the genny with a hardware mod but if you want one anyways - there was a dude on here that was selling them - at the time it was cheap i dont know now -- im sure you can find it in the search

[fishsandwich]

If you want to talk about an underutilized device, talk about the 32X or the Sega CD. SNES hardware was milked pretty well; the console was even treated to a (legit) port of Street Fighter Alpha 2!

NO KIDDING! Both machines were treated to a lot of mildly upgraded Genesis games with only a few titles demonstrating some (but never all) of the power of either console.

I'm so damn curious as to what the Sega 32x CD could have done... two 32-bit CPUs, two 16-bit CPUs, an 8-bit CPU, a bunch of graphics chips from both the Sega CD and the 32x, CD sound... what would THAT have been like? All be got fopr the 32xCD was Digital Pictures crud.

:/

[Memnon]

I've always felt that given a few more years, clever programmers could've been able to squeeze more performance out of the system, like Treasure did with Gunstar Heroes on the genesis.

[vintagegamecrazy]

I think the Snes got used well too, but look at the 2600 homebrewers could do stuff now that programmers back then could never figure out. Look at Solaris, it's hard to believe they could do that on the 2600, given time I think the Snes could do things we never dreamed of.

[syd]

I think the SNES was definitely pushed to its limits. Of course it had a spectacular version of Street Fighter Alpha 2, that some think is actually better than the Playstation version. The stuff done in Starfox is another good example. When it came to PC ports Doom was horrible at best and it used a couple chips.

Both Contra 3 and Gradius 3 pushed the system's sprite limit. Go fight the boss at the end of the first Contra level or get a few enemies on the screen in Gradius and you'll see the slowdown. Contra actually used a lot of different effects, like rotation in the second level and in the first level when it felt like the plane was going to come out of the screen. :D

[jajaja]

I think the SNES was definitely pushed to its limits. Of course it had a spectacular version of Street Fighter Alpha 2, that some think is actually better than the Playstation version. The stuff done in Starfox is another good example. When it came to PC ports Doom was horrible at best and it used a couple chips.

Both Contra 3 and Gradius 3 pushed the system's sprite limit. Go fight the boss at the end of the first Contra level or get a few enemies on the screen in Gradius and you'll see the slowdown. Contra actually used a lot of different effects, like rotation in the second level and in the first level when it felt like the plane was going to come out of the screen. :D

Ye, Gradius 3 slows down pretty much some places if you have like 4 "option" (those extra shooting things) and you shoot alot + many enemies.

[kevin_psx]

[Imagine "Damocles" -- an AMIGA landmark -- on the SNES ....


Wouldn't porting to Genesis make more sense? Same processor/similar design.

Donkey Kong Country = 2D sprites not 3D

Atari 2600's Pitfall 2 was the first on-cartridge coprocessor - right?

[CaryMG]

I was thinking....

When I'd see screenshots of "LucasArts" ' classsic graphic adventures -- like "The Secret Of Monkey Island", "LOOM", "Zack McKraken & The Alien Mindbenders" and "Maniac Mansion" for example -- I'd think, "This is more than do-able on an SNES ...."

Could you imagine ....
Those games with "Donkey Kong Country" graphics?

I even read a letter in "Nintendo Power" magazine where -- when asked what you'd like to see on the SNES -- someone said that very thing!


Later!
CaryMG
:) :) :)

[Arkaign]

I think a certain bit of truth is there in any system being underutilized. As in any architechture that uses a variety of processors and resources, certain approaches and techniques in coding can richly reward with previously undocumented capabilities.

Anyways, who remembers that weird hi-res mode that the SNES had? I only remember one game using it, a racing game from Interplay that used an isometric overhead viewpoint (like Diablo or RC Pro-Am). It's been over ten years since I've played it, but I think it was called Rock n Roll racing or something like that.

[Jorpho]

Anyway, if they could pull that off on a 16 bit console, and the game still plays well, and is detailed, then I must say it had some extra un tapped potential at the time.

As stated, Damocles was an Amiga product, and the Amiga was a rather different beast from the SNES.

It's all well and good to talk about cartridge size and extra chips, but the fact is that these things cost money! I don't think it would have been profitable for Nintendo to release games with huge cartridge sizes and lots of custom chips unless they were sure it was going to be a smash hit.


When I'd see screenshots of "LucasArts" ' classsic graphic adventures -- like "The Secret Of Monkey Island", "LOOM", "Zack McKraken & The Alien Mindbenders" and "Maniac Mansion" for example -- I'd think, "This is more than do-able on an SNES ...."

Could you imagine ....
Those games with "Donkey Kong Country" graphics?

As previously stated, Donkey Kong Country's graphics are not all that special in the end. Once you get somebody to make the sprites, you can use them anywhere. As I recall, they're even limited to 256 colors.

[Zap!]

So what do you guys think?
Was the SNES the greatest "Golden Age" console that was never used all it's power?

Umm, the Golden Age ended in 1983/1984. I don't wanna sound like a prick, but do you even have a clue what you're talking about?

[kevin_psx]

As previously stated, Donkey Kong Country's graphics are not all that special in the end. Once you get somebody to make the sprites, you can use them anywhere. As I recall, they're even limited to 256 colors.


Mario RPG used the same trick. Computer-rendered sprites but still just sprites. Flat, 16x16, 2D sprites. Any system could do the same trick.

nothing special

[CosmicMonkey]

The NES was underutilized too...hell, I know at least one company was working on 3d polygonal graphics for it...wish I could find the link...

-Rob

Indeed, Argonaut Software in the UK were playing around with NES 3D. They had developed a graphics chip that could be implemented into cartridges to help the NES CPU cope with 3D. Nintendo were quite impressed, and took interest in the project. However, this was at the end of the NES' lifespan, so the project got moved over to the SFami/SNES and became...... the SNES Super FX chip.

As for the Mega CD 32X set-up, imagine a 32X CD game where the backgrounds were FMV dealt with by the MegaCD, and the 32X dealt with the in-game-characters in either sprite or polygon form. Could have been absolutely amazing. Instead we got Nightrap 32X CD. Lucky us.

[Sam]

Um Donkey Kong, and Diddy were not sprits last time I checked. They used a technique where they just "wire mapped", the 3d characters. So when you play the game, the characters were fully 3d. The backgrouind was semi 3d, more 2d ish etc. That what they said on the Nintendo Power Tape I have.

Thats how they were created on an SGI machine, then they use these models to create the 2d sprites making them look 3dish.

[CYRiX]

Quotes Whole First Post

Here, here! I totally agree with you. Only the NES surpasses it! Game on!

Ice
Thank you for quoting the whole post...its not like the thread is based on this post and we won't know what your talking about when you say this.

[kevin_psx]

Thats how they were created on an SGI machine, then they use these models to create the 2d sprites making them look 3dish.


Let's see -
- they created the 3D Donkey Kong on an advanced computer
- took 2D snapshots of it
- placed the 2D snapshots into SNES' sprites

Is that correct?

[zerohero]

The character movements look was to fluid to be just plan 2d IMO.

[Jorpho]

Let's see -
- they created the 3D Donkey Kong on an advanced computer
- took 2D snapshots of it
- placed the 2D snapshots into SNES' sprites

Is that correct?

Yeah, pretty much - it is just plain 2D. I can think of a few games for the SNES that had pretty smooth animation; Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure comes to mind.

(Donkey Kong Country truly was overrated, in a way - it's a very good looking game, and while it's a very nicely done platformer with lots of challenge, in the end it's just a 2D platformer.)

[kevin_psx]

The character movements look was to fluid to be just plan 2d IMO.

DK Country = sprites.

And Sprites = 2D.

End of story. :D :) ;)

[Howie6925]

It took 3 Nintendo systems and 3 Sega systems to compete with the Turbografx 16+cdrom . :? what?

[CaryMG]

Indeed, Argonaut Software in the UK were playing around with NES 3D. They had developed a graphics chip that could be implemented into cartridges to help the NES CPU cope with 3D. Nintendo were quite impressed, and took interest in the project. However, this was at the end of the NES' lifespan, so the project got moved over to the SFamiCom/SNES and became...... the SNES "SuperFX" chip.

How interesting!
Thanks for that, Cosmic!

Argonaut is so cool!
And the legend behind it, "Jez San" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jez_San) !
They do absolute wonders on the AMIGA -- for example, one of the classic games of all time > "StarGlider 2" (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/starglider-2/screenshots) !!

Man .....
Can you imagine ?
The guys who invented the "SuperFX Chip" & the guys who invented the game doing one of the greatest 3D games ever on a 3D machine they designed ....
The SNES !!

:) :) :)

P.S. The InterNet's so bloody cool ....
People are making a "Wing Commander" & "Star Wars" game ....
SNES "X*BAND" is coming back !
And some's made a "StarGlider" game in honor of the original classic!
"StarGlider Pro" (http://graphics.cs.ucdavis.edu/~okreylos/Private/Starglider.html).
ENJOY !!

[Arkaign]

It took 3 Nintendo systems and 3 Sega systems to compete with the Turbografx 16+cdrom . :? what?

I can only assume that he means that the PC Engine (Japanese TG-16) came out in 1987, and competed against a huge variety of systems over the years, including the japanese variants of our NES, SNES, Sega Master System, Genesis, Sega CD, etc.

If he is insinuating that the Saturn and N64 were in that mix, I'm not sure I could go that far, but the PC-Engine was hugely sucessful in Japan for many many years. Too bad TG-16 didn't do better here.

[Wavelflack]

It took 3 Nintendo systems and 3 Sega systems to compete with the Turbografx 16+cdrom .

By "compete" do you mean "totally outsell"?

I'd even bet there were more SMS consoles sold than TG16.

[Wavelflack]

The character movements look was to fluid to be just plan 2d IMO.

Not to mention the sound. Way too good for a chip. I'm pretty sure it's actually CD audio.

[zerohero]

The character movements look was to fluid to be just plan 2d IMO.

Not to mention the sound. Way too good for a chip. I'm pretty sure it's actually CD audio.

My points exactly......... I never did finish this conversation :evil:

[CaryMG]

I SO am glad ta see you guys are still interested in this topic!


Later!
:) :) :)

[luffy744]

I'm not a huge tech guru about console hardware, but just looking at the specs of the SNES, and looking at stuff like Chrono Trigger, Star Ocean, Far East of Eden Zero, Megaman X3, I think the SNES got pretty closed to maxed out by the end of it's lifetime.

I really wish the Sega CD and Dreamcast got more untilized than they did (I know Dreamcast was supported for years longer in Japan than the US, but the vast majority of those releases were dating sims that didn't push the system in the slightest. Not that I have anything against dating sims.).

[zerohero]

There was a bit of slow down noticed in DKC, and Super Contra at some points which may indicate that they system was reaching its peak. Or, maybe those were a few programing errors.

[Blanka789]

Yeah the standard SNES was pretty maxed out, but I'm sure there could have been more chips that took greater advantage of the hardware.

[Jorpho]

Far East of Eden Zero

You've tried this game yourself? I know it uses the SDD-1 chip (like Star Ocean and Street Fighter Alpha 2), but isn't it difficult to play without knowledge of Japanese?

[badinsults]

Far East of Eden Zero

You've tried this game yourself? I know it uses the SDD-1 chip (like Star Ocean and Street Fighter Alpha 2), but isn't it difficult to play without knowledge of Japanese?

Actually, it uses the SPC7110.

[Tanis178]

just for the record DKC's visuals come from a process known as ACM, ironicaly enough the gba version just doesn't cut it
with it's colour saturation making up for the lcd screen, just looks horrible

[Sothy]

I think Donkey Kong Country Animation was too good to be 2d.

It was obviously an alien lifeform that downloads into your tv set and and makes like monkeys jumpin on shit.

[Jorpho]

Far East of Eden Zero

You've tried this game yourself? I know it uses the SDD-1 chip (like Star Ocean and Street Fighter Alpha 2), but isn't it difficult to play without knowledge of Japanese?

Actually, it uses the SPC7110.

Wait, isn't that the internal SNES sound chip that every game uses?

[darknut101]

Far East of Eden Zero

You've tried this game yourself? I know it uses the SDD-1 chip (like Star Ocean and Street Fighter Alpha 2), but isn't it difficult to play without knowledge of Japanese?

Actually, it uses the SPC7110.

Wait, isn't that the internal SNES sound chip that every game uses?

IIRC the sound chip in the SNES is the SPC700.

[Great Hierophant]

Donkey Kong Country's sprites have a particular flaw, they look terrible on anything other than a TV. This is not a game you want to play on an RGB or VGA monitor (or maybe an S-Video connection.)

The SNES's APU is called the SPC700.

[badinsults]

Far East of Eden Zero

You've tried this game yourself? I know it uses the SDD-1 chip (like Star Ocean and Street Fighter Alpha 2), but isn't it difficult to play without knowledge of Japanese?

Actually, it uses the SPC7110.

Wait, isn't that the internal SNES sound chip that every game uses?

No. Considering I got the information from snes emulation programmers, I should hope it is accurate. The SPC7110 was pretty unique, and even had a real-time clock.

[CaryMG]

Now is the time for all the SNES lovers to really make the world's most loved console sing !!

It is said that homebrew "FX" chip games are a way off 'cause of the difficulty with drivers & stuff.
Not anymore ....

Behold the "FX2 Development System" !!!!!
Click here ta see it > "FX2 Development System" (http://assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8931)

Enjoy !


Later!
:) :) :)

[Jorpho]

It is said that homebrew "FX" chip games are a way off 'cause of the difficulty with drivers & stuff.
Not anymore ....

Behold the "FX2 Development System" !!!!!
Click here ta see it > "FX2 Development System" (http://assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8931)

Fascinating, but a single fragile dev board does not a homebrew scene make.

[idrougge]

I'm so damn curious as to what the Sega 32x CD could have done... two 32-bit CPUs, two 16-bit CPUs, an 8-bit CPU, a bunch of graphics chips from both the Sega CD and the 32x, CD sound... what would THAT have been like?

See here what could have been done. (http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=10686)

[Ed Oscuro]

I recall seeing that some time back. The building scene was particularly impressive...but I imagine the terrain would've had to have been more primitive with actors running around. Maybe.