Vectrex v2.0 ?

[CaryMG]

Have a look at the ATARI vektor grafik arcade collection > "ATARI Vektor Grafik Arcade Collection" (http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=760)

I was wondering: what do you guys think of vektor grafik games -- be they on computers, Vectrex or arcade machines -- in general & the ATARI ones in particular?

Is there an asthete there as desireable as gourad shaded polygonal graphics?

And what about remaking the "Vectrex" -- are you listening"Messiah" (http://www.playmessiah.com/index2.htm)? lol
I mean, it'd just produce vektor grafik games -- no FPSes lol
A whole new asthete'd have to made up -- the ULTRA cool look of vektor grafix but with the depth of a gourard shaded polygon game.
No quickie arcade-ish shoot-'em-ups.

Here're my design opinions ....
> A Modular Console --No LCD Screen [Keeps The Price Down]
> Since Vektor Grafik GPUs Are Simple To Implement The Console Will Be Small, So Software Can Come On These Positively Neat-O Cool Businesscard Size CDs > Businesscard Size CDs (http://www.dansdata.com/images/cds/pyrodsmall320.jpg)
> Wired Controllers -- So As Not To Contemporize It With Wireless Ones Thereby Maintaining The Classic "Look & Feel" And Not Breaking The Spell Of "The Classic Gaming Experience"
> A Thumbstick Instead Of The Original ToggleStick
> Homebrewing Vigorously Encouraged
> A Jeff Minter Pack-In

Thoughts?



Later!
:) :) :)

[CYRiX]

sorry to have no point of this being in the thread but why you always have an orange font, i find it quite annoying.

[CaryMG]

I forgot probably the most important feature ....

A $99 price tag ....


Later!
:) :) :)

[Ed Oscuro]

sorry to have no point of this being in the thread but why you always have an orange font, i find it quite annoying.
Indeed, back on topic...


Is there an asthete there as desireable as gourad shaded polygonal graphics?
Yes. Modern graphics are much better LOL

[video_game_addict]

Only it is comes with a self contained monitor.

Vector lookalike graphics on raster screen no thankyou.

[Truffle]

Yes, a self contained monitor is a must.
Ill buy it, just for a conversation piece. But I love anything with vector graphics, so perhaps I dont count 8-)

[Mianrtcv]

Yes, a self contained monitor is a must.
Ill buy it, just for a conversation piece. But I love anything with vector graphics, so perhaps I dont count 8-)

a self contained monitor would seal the deal

[Pantechnicon]

I've had a vector graphics fetish for years now. Positively love `em. Vector games make up at least half of my top 10 arcade machines of all time and I am the proud owner of both a Vectrrex console and an honest-to-goodness Lunar Lander arcade cab.

But the past is still the past. One reason nobody does vector machines is that the technology was never all that reliable to begin with. Vector monitors - especially of the color type - were notorious for heating up and breaking down. I'm certain there might be a way to improve reliability with modern equipment but it would be akin to re-inventing the wheel; specifically the wooden wagon wheel. In the final analysis nobody but a handful of nostalgic kooks (like me) would want such a thing. No potential market = no corporate-funded development.

[mezrabad]

I gotta agree, I'd love to see a Vector console, one that did all the vector games from the arcades and included the Vectrex library as well.

I don't care if it's possible, or even probable, the fact is, I drool over the thought of it. I don't mean just salivate, either, I mean "I'm wiping spit off my chin" kind of drooling.

But yeah, it better come with its own screen.

[CaryMG]

Only it is comes with a self contained monitor.
Vector lookalike graphics on raster screen no thank you.

Ohhhhhhh -- OK.

I thought the Vectrex monitor was just a regular TV.

In the back of my mind,I was thinking that it could be a "Vektor Grafix Display" [VGD] or something like that -- if there was such a thing! lol
Apparently there is!

That's the whole purpose of proporting vektor grafix in the first place -- that oh-so-ultra-cool look ....
And if having a built-in VGD is what it'll take, then I'm for it.

So I wholeheartedly agree with you VGA.
However, a built-in VGD would knock the price up a notch ot two ....

Later!
:) :) :)

[CaryMG]

Vector games make up at least half of my top 10 arcade machines of all time ....

WOW!!
Me too !!
* = "Vektor Grafik Game"
"My Top 10 Arcade Games In No Particular Order"
1] "Star Wars Arcade" *
2] "Pac*Man"
3] "Red Baron" *
4] "Centipede"
5] "The Empire Strikes Back" *
6] "BurgerTime"
7] "BattleZone" *
8] "Tempest" *
9] "Space Invaders"
10] "I, Robot"



In the final analysis nobody but a handful of nostalgic kooks (like me) would want such a thing.
No potential market = no corporate-funded development.

I think there'd be an absolute ton of people who'd want this machine -- if it's designed the way I've described.


Later!
:) :) :)

[Kid Ice]

[[b]I think there'd be an absolute ton of people who'd want this machine -- if it's designed the way I've described.
:) :) :)

A self-contained vector system for $99? Yeah, I guess a ton of people would want that...I'll take an X-Box 360 and PS3 at that price too. :)

Let's be realistic...something developed in low quantities, using esentially obsolete technology, for a niche market would cost a ton of dough. But I agree that another vector system would be awesome.

[Jasoco]

A: Please stop with the bold font. It's the only way we can tell what text is a URL on this forum. In fact, I didn't even know there was a URL in your post! (http://www.jasoco.net) And it looks quite annoying. I can understand it's your style, but please. Bold = no no. It's very hard to read when all together like that.

B: Serious question; what exactly makes a vector monitor a vector monitor? I've always wondered this. What exactly is in the Vectrex's screen that makes it different than a regular old CRT monitor? (At least CRT monitors from the 70's and 80's.)

[Pantechnicon]

B: Serious question; what exactly makes a vector monitor a vector monitor? I've always wondered this. What exactly is in the Vectrex's screen that makes it different than a regular old CRT monitor? (At least CRT monitors from the 70's and 80's.)

My understanding of this is admittedly in the most non-technical terms but in a nutshell: A standard CRT uses a single "gun" that repeatedley fires a stream of electrons onto the tube in a constant side-to-side, up-to-down pattern. Imagine holding down your spacebar for several seconds in a text processor and that's the basic idea of how the electron gun fires and moves across the screen. A vector monitor, on the other hand, fires multiple electron streams allowing sharp lines to be plotted between the end points.

[CaryMG]

COOLness!

I'm so glad you guys are into it!

OK -- Now that we've decided that we SO want this machine, let's kick around some specs ....
> How fast should the CPU be?
> What vektor grafik generating GPU should be used?
> How big should the built-in VGD be? I'm thinkin' 15 inches.
> Should it be horizontally or vertically oriented? I go with horizontally.
> What should the price be ? I say it at least $200 or less.

Thoughts?


Later!
:) :) :)

[Ze_ro]

Vector monitors are long since obsolete, and I'm 99% certain that no company actually produces them anymore. Getting any vector monitor would be terribly expensive, color ones doubly so.

I wonder if it might be practical to make some kind of rig that could sit on the floor and draw images on the wall like you might see in bad 80's laser shows. I'm not sure what kind of commercial products like this are available, but it must be cheaper (and smaller) than a CRT.

--Zero

[ubikuberalles]

I've always liked vector displays because they looked so unique and futuristic (well, they looked futuristic 20 years ago. :)). I even thought about converting an old TV to a vector display but the work was too complicated for me to figure out.

Pantechnicon's description of how vector graphics work is probably the best non-technical description you're going to get. If I tried to describe it my description would be filled with all sorts of jargon. :)

Vector graphics were promising back in the day because, initially, the electronics needed for raster displays were more complicated and expensive. That cost difference didn't last long and that's why there are so few vector graphics systems out there nowadays.

Vector graphics have seen a comeback in the volumetric 3-D display industry (volumetric displays don't require a headset to see 3D info) because they don't flicker as much as the raster type of volumetric displays.


I wonder if it might be practical to make some kind of rig that could sit on the floor and draw images on the wall like you might see in bad 80's laser shows. I'm not sure what kind of commercial products like this are available, but it must be cheaper (and smaller) than a CRT.

Possible yes, practical, probably not. You could make one by using the parts from an old grocery store laser scanner. However, that would be a major league hack with lots of hardware and programming work. You could maybe hack a laser pointer and mount it on a spinning disk. It wouldn't be a computer display but it would make pretty images.

[CaryMG]

Vector monitors are long since obsolete ....
... and no company actually produces them anymore.
Getting any vector monitor would be terribly expensive, color ones doubly so.

MAN ....



... the electronics needed for raster displays were more complicated and expensive.
That cost difference didn't last long and that's why there are so few vector graphics systems out there nowadays.

Oh boy ....

OK , but given all of that, do you guys think that some company'd -- Mattel? It'd make a great comeback for them! -- take it upon themselves just for the sake of unique gaming & make one anyway?
It'd be a guaranteed HUGE seller!


Later!
:) :) :)

[Ze_ro]

It would be an interesting and unique item, but I think the best it could hope for would be to fall in the same category as other dedicated units like the Flashback and those Jakks TV game things... but adding in the cost of a vector monitor would make it a lot more expensive than those units though, so I can't imagine it's sales would be as good.

--Zero

[Computolio]

A vector monitor would shoot the price far past the $1000 mark; restarting manufacture of such devices would be a multi-million dollar nightmare and the resulting run of monitors would likely be only sightly more reliable than the monitors of old. Remember, these things are not rare just because they were made in limited numbers but because they had a rather inconvenient habit of going up in flames.

A lazer display would be easier to find and produce but it wouldn't be much different seeing as those things are even more expensive, huge, bulky and dangerous.

The LazerMAME team spent a small fortune on their contraption and it's slow, flickery(as in more flickery than it's supposed to be), and monochrome.

[CaryMG]

A vector monitor would shoot the price far past the $1000 mark ....
the resulting run of monitors would likely be only sightly more reliable ....
... they had a rather inconvenient habit of going up in flames.

A lazer display would be easier ... but .... those things are even more expensive, huge, bulky and dangerous.

Man ....
I was so hopin' it'd happen ....


Later!
:) :) :)

[ubikuberalles]

Vector monitors are long since obsolete ....
... and no company actually produces them anymore.
Getting any vector monitor would be terribly expensive, color ones doubly so.

MAN ....



... the electronics needed for raster displays were more complicated and expensive.
That cost difference didn't last long and that's why there are so few vector graphics systems out there nowadays.

Oh boy ....


It's nice to know what you can do with creative quoting. :) If you recall I said that raster displays were initially more complicated and expensive than vector graphics.

Nevertheless, I don't find any conflict between the two quotes. Let me explain:

In the 1960's and 1970's the only real graphics option was the vector display. The electroinics were simple (just a couple D-to-A converters connected to latches) and, as long as the graphics weren't too elaborate, didn't require much computing power to generate. They also required very little RAM to generate decent vector displays. Raster displays, on the other hand, required a more computer power and, more importantly, much more RAM to work. RAM was very very expensive in those days and so raster displays weren't used much.

Then microprocessors got really cheap with the introduction of the 8080a, 6502 and other chips. These microporcessors were fast and could display color raster images. The graphics were slow and clunky at first (think about how much CPU time the simple graphics consumed for the VCS and the Timex/Sinclair 1000) but they opened the door to cheaper displays. Memory also got super cheap. In the late 1960's a 4K RAM board cost several grand. By the end of the 1970's you could get a 16K RAM board for under $700. A raster system that would cost $10K or more in the 1960's cost less than $2K in the 1970's.

The other cost factor was the monitor. For vector graphics you need a custom made monitor. Raster displays? Just plug it into the TV. That's the big reason vector displays are more expensive than raster: you have to include a custom made monitor. Game manufacturers would rather save the cost and plug their machine into the TV.

Vector graphics would only make sense in the arcade market since you have to install a monitor in the cab anyway. The arcade market is pretty limited and not much of a growth market and, so I don't see vector cabs happening soon.

[CaryMG]

Until someone finally makes a compact vektor grafik console, there's this > "Vektor Dream" (http://download.filefront.com/4327711;8198748e9e0cd850e8455aee5309a9e156680c2dc2 9524a9437a4afa9eaf802769589da82aa34902).

To get the software for it, go here > "Vektor Dream" Games (http://arcadeconnection.serverbox.org/acdroms03a29/Roms/acdroms1.html).

To read a nice review of "Vektor Dream" go here > "Vektor Dream" Review (http://www.classicgaming.com/features/articles/vectordreams)


Later!
:) :) :)

[CaryMG]

Until someone finally makes a compact vektor grafik console, there's this > "Vektor Dream" (http://download.filefront.com/4327711;8198748e9e0cd850e8455aee5309a9e156680c2dc2 9524a9437a4afa9eaf802769589da82aa34902).

To get the software for it, go here > "Vektor Dream" Games (http://arcadeconnection.serverbox.org/acdroms03a29/Roms/acdroms1.html).

To read a nice review of "Vektor Dream" go here > "Vektor Dream" Review (http://www.classicgaming.com/features/articles/vectordreams)


Later!
:) :) :)

[Jasoco]

Please don't use bold text for your normal posting for obvious reasons.

Wow, Computolio, I didn't realize vector monitors were so expensive! Sad though. As I'm sure it'd look so much better with one.

[kedawa]

Vector monitors can only draw lines, so gouraud shading, or even flat shading for that matter, are out of the question.

I like the idea, though.

I've always wanted to see games use insanely high numbers of non-textured polygons instead of the nicely painted origami we see in today's games.

Just imagine the Tobal games, or the original Virtua Fighter, but with models made up of millions of polygons rather than hundreds.

[chadtower]

At current market rates:

Strong, working, capped color vector monitor - $400

"" "" "" monochrome - $250


And keeping in mind that they haven't been produced in 20 years, even the strong, working, well maintained monitors are 20+ years old and act that way.

[Arcade Antics]

Reality check:

The original Vectrex - in the midst of the booming video game business - flopped.

It's an OUTSTANDING machine; that's not the point. Point is, it didn't do well back then when the technology was everywhere. It won't do well now now that it's pretty much long gone and would require a huge amount of overhead to allow it to be mass produced and sold for some sort of reasonable price point that would attract Joe Sixpack and Sally Housecoat.

Nice idea, won't happen.

[Truffle]

Didnt the vectrex primarily flop because Atari threatened to not sell their systems/games at stores that also carried the system :/ ???

[Arcade Antics]

Didnt the vectrex primarily flop because Atari threatened to not sell their systems/games at stores that also carried the system :/ ???
It flopped for several reasons, but that's not really relevant here. What is relevant is that any company who wanted to manufacture such a device would lose their shirt, so it won't happen.

[chadtower]

I'm sure the monster price tag didn't help. I remember it in the Glass Case of Items That Cost Too Much at Toys R Us.

[Mayhem]

Monster price tag? It launched at $199. Can't say that was any more expensive than the Atari 5200 that launched the following month.

[chadtower]

Which also didn't sell in anywhere near the scale of the 2600.

They just weren't enough of an upgrade from the 2600 for anyone to spend another $200-300 on them.

[CaryMG]

Man I so want this ....


Later!
:) :) :)

[CaryMG]

Just looking at my absolutely favorite arcade game in action so makes me want one ....
Click here ta see it > "Star Wars - Arcade" Video Clip (http://www.thelogbook.com/phosphor/starwarv.html) [Scroll Down HalfWay]


Somebody MAKE THIS MACHINE !!! lol



Later!
:) :) :)

[kirin jensen]

I've been saying someone needs to do the Vectrex Super Color (tm) machine for a long time.

Nice to see the enthusiasm.

Producing a vector monitor might cheaper if the proper economies of scale could be reached.

There's a lot of technology shifts that have occurred since vector monitors were current tech.

Nobody's going to do it, of course.

[CaryMG]

Nice to see the enthusiasm.
Thank you, thank you !


Producing a vector monitor might cheaper if the proper economies of scale could be reached.
There's a lot of technology shifts that have occurred since vector monitors were current tech.
I so agree ....

Here's a little tiding over > "Vectrex" WebSite (http://www.vectrexnews.com/)

And click here ta play the ATARI vektor grafik classics in all thier original glory .... > "ATARI VektorGrafik Game Player" (http://go.download.filefront.com/4726537;4b03a20bad1b6326;d9f00163f2327ebc48b7af974 0c418aa6c1f94b77ecaf359c08de5db8b73917b6e72a5fed3c b7887)
ROMs Needed
1] "Asteroids"
2] "Asteroids Deluxe"
3] "BattleZone"
4] "Lunar Lander"
5] "Red Baron"
6] "Tempest"
Just put the ROMs in the same folder "Vektor Dreams" is in, run "Vector Dreams" then click FILES > MACHINES ta play!


Later!
:) :) :)

[ianoid]

Didnt the vectrex primarily flop because Atari threatened to not sell their systems/games at stores that also carried the system :/ ???
It flopped for several reasons, but that's not really relevant here. What is relevant is that any company who wanted to manufacture such a device would lose their shirt, so it won't happen.

Oh, come on, a Jakks Vector game colletion with Asteroids, Battle Zone and more vector games for $19.99 could probably sell 100,000. Or 500,000. Uh, no built in screen.

[CaryMG]

Oh, come on, a Jakks Vector game colletion with Asteroids, Battle Zone and more vector games for $19.99 could probably sell 100,000.
Or 500,000. Uh, no built in screen.

What's a "Jakks Vektor Game" collection?


Later!
:) :) :)

[CaryMG]

I'm a H U G E of the vektor graphic asthetic.
Read my topic on the subject > "Vektor Graphic" Enthusiasm (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=73140&highlight=)

The games in the screenshots ....
Man ....
Utterly, utterly beautiful ....

I was wonderin' -- would it be at all possible ta make "Vectrex" versions of Golden Age "ATARI" vektor graphic arcade classics?
I'd opt for the Black & White version over nothing ! lol


Later!
:) :) :)

[CaryMG]

I was wonderin' -- would it be at all possible ta make "Vectrex" versions of Golden Age "ATARI" vektor graphic arcade classics?
I'd opt for the Black & White version over nothing ! lol

Aparently some has ....
Click here ta see it > "Star Wars - Arcade" On "Vectrex" (http://download.filefront.com/4738127;a3672ea20c9d05c91c744d5bb45c43d3e01834270b eb74f73b0b1b2f43ec0e67adbbf95bec3a9b89)
Go to timeindex 00.00.17 to 00.00.55.


Later!
:) :) :)