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View Full Version : 'Metal Gear Solid 4' - Kojima could have done it on 360



GrayFox
11-15-2005, 02:13 PM
Oh boy, I can just see the 360 Fanboys dancin' over this one.

http://1up.com/do/feature?cId=3145585&did=1

About 4 minutes into it, Sam Kennedy mentions that Milkman from EGM, was talking to Kojima the other day. Kojima mentioned to Milkman that what he did with that MGS4 trailer, could have been done on 360. I mean, we don't know if he just meant the trailer, or the actual game, but its interesting nevertheless.

Mr.FoodMonster
11-15-2005, 02:18 PM
Yeah, but it wasn't.

Arkaign
11-15-2005, 02:20 PM
It's a stupid and obvious statement :P Hell, you could make MGS4 on the 2600, the question is, how would it turn out? It's all interpretive.

This is about as meaningful as saying "You know, fish also have eyes." ..

Truth without insight, gotta love it.

GrayFox
11-15-2005, 02:31 PM
It's a stupid and obvious statement :P Hell, you could make MGS4 on the 2600, the question is, how would it turn out? It's all interpretive.

This is about as meaningful as saying "You know, fish also have eyes." ..

Truth without insight, gotta love it.

For some reason, I can only assume Kojima didn't want his words to be taken this way.

From the way Sam talks about Milke's conversation with him, it pretty much sounds like that ATLEAST the trailer could have been done on the 360, according to what they said.

I could care less because I'm buying both, but maybe people should realize that maybe the 360 is a bit more powerful then previously imagined.

njiska
11-15-2005, 03:29 PM
It's a stupid and obvious statement :P Hell, you could make MGS4 on the 2600, the question is, how would it turn out? It's all interpretive.

This is about as meaningful as saying "You know, fish also have eyes." ..

Truth without insight, gotta love it.

For some reason, I can only assume Kojima didn't want his words to be taken this way.

From the way Sam talks about Milke's conversation with him, it pretty much sounds like that ATLEAST the trailer could have been done on the 360, according to what they said.

I could care less because I'm buying both, but maybe people should realize that maybe the 360 is a bit more powerful then previously imagined.

Thanks, Carey for that wonderful bit of info. If taken literally then i'm very pleased about the future of the box.

mr_pollock
11-15-2005, 08:03 PM
When I saw this thread, I thought: "The Metal Gear Solid series - Kojima could have done better."

Hahaha.

njiska
11-15-2005, 08:04 PM
It' worth noting that apparently the comments were inaccuarate. 1up.com will post any further news as soon as they get it.

CYRiX
11-15-2005, 08:36 PM
Yet MGS4 will stay to its lover ps3 and only release crappy titles for other systems. (besides twin snakes that was pretty good in some ways).

Ed Oscuro
11-15-2005, 08:39 PM
Kojima mentioned to Milkman that what he did with that MGS4 trailer, could have been done on 360.
That seems to be code for "and that's less ambitious than where we are now."

Still, good news regardless.

Arkaign
11-15-2005, 09:23 PM
Guys guys guys .. this is neither good news nor bad news, just some eccentric guy saying something almost utterly random. Should not be taken seriously.

Anyways, the 360 should be more than *capable* of running any title that will appear on PS3, the capabilities of each unit is more than up to the task. Of course, the end result's degree of success or failure depends upon a drastic number of variables (quality of dev kit, competence of coding teams, vision of the producer, budget allotted, time allotted, internal politics, etc, etc).

Just looking at the numbers game for the hardware itself, the r500 graphics engine shouldn't be all that far off of the g70 core that the PS3 is set to use. One only has to look at the PC Market (x1800 series vs. 7800GTX) to see that they are fairly close to being equal in most respects, even if the PC card is the r520. Moving on to Cell vs. the 3-core IBM proc, the strengths and weaknesses of each are still very similar, and you can look at total die size, transistor count, projected integer and floating point performance, to determine that the class of software that each is going to be able to run should be completely in the same class.

In summary, a skilled and budgeted team could almost certainly make a version of MGS4 for x360 that would be damned close (probably too close for anyone but tech geeks or fanboys to complain about) to what is on slate for PS3. On the same token, same goes for any x360 title, you name it and it could easily be on the PS3. In fact, you will probably see a lot of instances where the 360 version is superior, and vice versa.

Bah :D

njiska
11-15-2005, 09:29 PM
Guys guys guys .. this is neither good news nor bad news, just some eccentric guy saying something almost utterly random. Should not be taken seriously.

Anyways, the 360 should be more than *capable* of running any title that will appear on PS3, the capabilities of each unit is more than up to the task. Of course, the end result's degree of success or failure depends upon a drastic number of variables (quality of dev kit, competence of coding teams, vision of the producer, budget allotted, time allotted, internal politics, etc, etc).

Just looking at the numbers game for the hardware itself, the r500 graphics engine shouldn't be all that far off of the g70 core that the PS3 is set to use. One only has to look at the PC Market (x1800 series vs. 7800GTX) to see that they are fairly close to being equal in most respects, even if the PC card is the r520. Moving on to Cell vs. the 3-core IBM proc, the strengths and weaknesses of each are still very similar, and you can look at total die size, transistor count, projected integer and floating point performance, to determine that the class of software that each is going to be able to run should be completely in the same class.

In summary, a skilled and budgeted team could almost certainly make a version of MGS4 for x360 that would be damned close (probably too close for anyone but tech geeks or fanboys to complain about) to what is on slate for PS3. On the same token, same goes for any x360 title, you name it and it could easily be on the PS3. In fact, you will probably see a lot of instances where the 360 version is superior, and vice versa.

Bah :D

That is unless that is unless we see a lot of lazy development teams, like the on behind Mteal Gear Solid 2: Substance on the Xbox.

Even with good dev tools we're still gonna see a lot of sloppy, sloppy ports.

Arkaign
11-15-2005, 09:30 PM
Did you even read my post? That's exactly why I said it depends on so many factors, including competence and quality of programming and production.

njiska
11-15-2005, 09:30 PM
Guys guys guys .. this is neither good news nor bad news, just some eccentric guy saying something almost utterly random. Should not be taken seriously.

Anyways, the 360 should be more than *capable* of running any title that will appear on PS3, the capabilities of each unit is more than up to the task. Of course, the end result's degree of success or failure depends upon a drastic number of variables (quality of dev kit, competence of coding teams, vision of the producer, budget allotted, time allotted, internal politics, etc, etc).

Just looking at the numbers game for the hardware itself, the r500 graphics engine shouldn't be all that far off of the g70 core that the PS3 is set to use. One only has to look at the PC Market (x1800 series vs. 7800GTX) to see that they are fairly close to being equal in most respects, even if the PC card is the r520. Moving on to Cell vs. the 3-core IBM proc, the strengths and weaknesses of each are still very similar, and you can look at total die size, transistor count, projected integer and floating point performance, to determine that the class of software that each is going to be able to run should be completely in the same class.

In summary, a skilled and budgeted team could almost certainly make a version of MGS4 for x360 that would be damned close (probably too close for anyone but tech geeks or fanboys to complain about) to what is on slate for PS3. On the same token, same goes for any x360 title, you name it and it could easily be on the PS3. In fact, you will probably see a lot of instances where the 360 version is superior, and vice versa.

Bah :D

That is unless that is unless we see a lot of lazy development teams, like the on behind Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance on the Xbox.

Even with good dev tools we're still gonna see a lot of sloppy, sloppy ports.

InsaneDavid
11-16-2005, 02:08 AM
I would think by now you guys would quit taking things Mr. Kojima says so directly. He's just running tech specs through his head is all, not saying he wants to jump ship or what graphics package this and that. Hell, the whole time he was developing Metal Gear Solid 2 he was playing Pokemon on a GameBoy - he said that was his second job, he'd work on MGS2 then play Pokemon. Gamers, not corporations (I'm looking at you EA) should make games.

Also as with the lackluster sloppy port of MGS2 to the XBox, Sony will promote MGS as a flagship title - Microsoft would see it as just another third party release. (Kinda like how they killed any possible continuing success with the Shenmue franchise in the US - everyone was excited about Shenmue II on the Dreamcast - then a year later when Microsoft finally released it on the XBox, no one cared) Look at all the great games that Microsoft dropped from exclusivity because they weren't "designed for the mature gamer." Signing with Microsoft still has way too much uncertianty unless you're under one of their development houses - Sega is just one example. (since Gun Valkyrie, Panzer Dragoon Orta, and Jet Set Radio Future sold SO well and really created strong new IP's for the modern face of Sega and their partnership with Microsoft :roll: )

I'm not a fanboy for any console (except maybe the VFD tabletop games LOL ), that's just the honest truth of what has happened.

As Arkaign said, it has to do with a lot of things. Mr. Kojima isn't owned by one company or another - he isn't a drone like Shigeru Miyamoto *waits for 4/5ths of DP to kill me* that cranks out the same shit year to year repackaged in different ways that still isn't as good as it was 15 years ago. (that's why there's thread after thread about the Generation Nex, most still see the NES as Nintendo's high point) Hideo Kojima is a designer in every sense of the word, and he has a lot of "what if's" and "hmmm...'s" in his head, which is exactly what you want the people developing your games to do.

...then again watch there be a remake of Snatcher or Policenauts on the XBox 360, something crazy like that just to shut me up. LOL

Arkaign
11-16-2005, 09:13 PM
Gamers, not corporations (I'm looking at you EA) should make games.

Best.post.ever

Ed Oscuro
11-16-2005, 09:15 PM
Guys guys guys .. this is neither good news nor bad news, just some eccentric guy saying something almost utterly random. Should not be taken seriously.
What, Kojima doesn't speak with his developers now, is that it? Is that just like the time he was saying that the Revolution might be the most affordable console (to develop for), that was just out of thin air, too?

Uh...no.

Arkaign
11-16-2005, 09:16 PM
You misunderstand my post, I wasn't criticizing his comment, it's true enough, but not SPECIFIC enough, and positive or negative reaction to such a statement is not logical. That is all.

Ed Oscuro
11-16-2005, 09:20 PM
You misunderstand my post, I wasn't criticizing his comment, it's true enough, but not SPECIFIC enough, and positive or negative reaction to such a statement is not logical. That is all.
So then, my comment to the effect of "this raises the bar of what we can expect on the PS3, and also is a shot in the leg for the 360" is illogical? Looks like you started misunderstanding people first.

Arkaign
11-16-2005, 09:27 PM
Well, it's interpretive but not definitive. It will be quite a long time (3 or more years) before the ultimate capabilities of 360 and PS3 are known in terms of extracting the possibilities. See every other major console in history for previous examples.

The statement attributed to Kojima regarding MGS4 'could have been done on x360' is utterly obvious and completely generic. It would be ignorant for anyone to suggest that you COULDN'T do it on 360. In fact, you could make the game on an N64, Xbox1, etc, etc, if you simply define it as 'could have been done', ie : possible.

In fact, I'd really like to know what his exact words were, hearing it in an offhand comment by some other guys probably dilutes or confuses what his point was. In the end, nothing relevant or informative comes through from this. The technical specifications for 360 and PS3 are so close, that it should have been obvious in the first place that there wouldn't be a title for one that would be impossible for the other. Arguably the data capacity per disc might limit the 360, but there's always disc swaps.

Mountains <-> Molehills

Ed Oscuro
11-16-2005, 09:46 PM
Well, it's interpretive but not definitive.
You just need a little imagination - he's saying "the team now is at the point where they've tightened the process up enough that we could do that on the Xbox 360." Obviously, it's not saying anything about the balance between 360 and PS3, but it is saying that we can expect a visible improvement from here to the finished product on the PS3.

Arkaign
11-16-2005, 09:48 PM
Well, it's interpretive but not definitive.
You just need a little imagination - he's saying "the team now is at the point where they've tightened the process up enough that we could do that on the Xbox 360." Obviously, it's not saying anything about the balance between 360 and PS3, but it is saying that we can expect a visible improvement from here to the finished product on the PS3.

Well, I really like the sound of that :) But, how do we get to read between these lines? Do you have a better source for what Kojima did or did not say? I'm not trying to be negative, just want more data ;)

sabre2922
11-16-2005, 09:53 PM
What I dont get is why some gamers (even a few here) think that the PS3 is so god-almighty powerful and the 360 is just Xbox1.5 or something.

BOTH THE XBOX360 AND PS3 ARE VERY POWERFUL sure the PS3 will most likely be slightly moreso but thats a given in that it will be released almost a year AFTER the 360.

Anyway I do believe that MGS4 could have been done on the 360 with the same graphical prowess as what the MGS4 demo showed.

Hell ive tried to make the point that the days of one system being much more powerful than another graphic wise in the same generation or looking faaar different (or better) than a rival console are over and have been since the launch of the Dreamcast sure there were obvious differences with the first generation of true 3-D capable consoles i.e. the PSX,N64 and Saturn but that no longer applies to competing current gen consoles and hasnt for many years now.
It comes down to this: 90% of the mutliports done on current gen systems all look basically the same sure the Xbox sometimes has a few more polygons here or there but most ppl see no difference in any of the current 3 PS2,Xbox,Gamecube when it comes to mutliport games and that will remain true well into the next generation for the majority of games released on the PS3 and Xbox360.

Basically all the next gen systems will kick ass and they will all provide DAMN GOOD LOOKING GAMES.

Lets just hope they work on the gameplay and can add great physics and more challenging AI to the games with the humungous amounts of memory that will be available to them with all the next gen systems

Arkaign
11-16-2005, 10:04 PM
Good points Sabre .. with the incredible capabilities of this hardware, the limit of what can be done lies with the developers and producers, not the systems. Amazing games will surface for all of the next-gen systems.

Ed Oscuro
11-16-2005, 10:12 PM
What I dont get is why some gamers (even a few here) think that the PS3 is so god-almighty powerful and the 360 is just Xbox1.5 or something.

BOTH THE XBOX360 AND PS3 ARE VERY POWERFUL sure the PS3 will most likely be slightly moreso but thats a given in that it will be released almost a year AFTER the 360.
In Microsoft's defense, the screenshots for Gears of War I saw a month back were amazing. The "Xbox 1.5" rap might be hard for Microsoft to shake if the launch titles are underwhelming, but we keep hearing that the 360 launch titles don't even approximate the ultimate abilities of the 360, so why not try to believe? Just a rushjob, I guess.


But, how do we get to read between these lines? Do you have a better source for what Kojima did or did not say?
Well, so far I've just read the topic title! It seems pretty obvious that's what he'd mean in making a statement like that. It seems this is a rather off-the-cuff remark, perhaps (given the press it's giving the 360) one Sony would rather not have been made. Kojima almost assuredly isn't speaking from experience developing MGS4 for the 360, but it seems to me likely that he's talked around and gotten some insights into what the 360's capable of. He's certainly promoting his team's abilities, that's for sure.

Arkaign
11-16-2005, 10:19 PM
Well, if you follow the link on the first post, and then watch the video and wait for the comment, it's by these other two guys (didn't notice their names) .. not straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

That's what I meant .. I mean what exactly was truly said? What was the context? What was the question (if there was one) that precipitated such a statement? Etc.

Xizer
11-16-2005, 10:25 PM
Guys guys guys .. this is neither good news nor bad news, just some eccentric guy saying something almost utterly random. Should not be taken seriously.

Anyways, the 360 should be more than *capable* of running any title that will appear on PS3, the capabilities of each unit is more than up to the task. Of course, the end result's degree of success or failure depends upon a drastic number of variables (quality of dev kit, competence of coding teams, vision of the producer, budget allotted, time allotted, internal politics, etc, etc).

Just looking at the numbers game for the hardware itself, the r500 graphics engine shouldn't be all that far off of the g70 core that the PS3 is set to use. One only has to look at the PC Market (x1800 series vs. 7800GTX) to see that they are fairly close to being equal in most respects, even if the PC card is the r520. Moving on to Cell vs. the 3-core IBM proc, the strengths and weaknesses of each are still very similar, and you can look at total die size, transistor count, projected integer and floating point performance, to determine that the class of software that each is going to be able to run should be completely in the same class.

In summary, a skilled and budgeted team could almost certainly make a version of MGS4 for x360 that would be damned close (probably too close for anyone but tech geeks or fanboys to complain about) to what is on slate for PS3. On the same token, same goes for any x360 title, you name it and it could easily be on the PS3. In fact, you will probably see a lot of instances where the 360 version is superior, and vice versa.

Bah :D

That is unless that is unless we see a lot of lazy development teams, like the on behind Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance on the Xbox.

Even with good coding we're still gonna see a lot of sloppy, sloppy ports.

Arkaign
11-16-2005, 10:27 PM
Bahahahah Xizer :D

Saabmeister
11-16-2005, 10:37 PM
Guys guys guys .. this is neither good news nor bad news, just some eccentric guy saying something almost utterly random. Should not be taken seriously.

Anyways, the 360 should be more than *capable* of running any title that will appear on PS3, the capabilities of each unit is more than up to the task. Of course, the end result's degree of success or failure depends upon a drastic number of variables (quality of dev kit, competence of coding teams, vision of the producer, budget allotted, time allotted, internal politics, etc, etc).

Just looking at the numbers game for the hardware itself, the r500 graphics engine shouldn't be all that far off of the g70 core that the PS3 is set to use. One only has to look at the PC Market (x1800 series vs. 7800GTX) to see that they are fairly close to being equal in most respects, even if the PC card is the r520. Moving on to Cell vs. the 3-core IBM proc, the strengths and weaknesses of each are still very similar, and you can look at total die size, transistor count, projected integer and floating point performance, to determine that the class of software that each is going to be able to run should be completely in the same class.

In summary, a skilled and budgeted team could almost certainly make a version of MGS4 for x360 that would be damned close (probably too close for anyone but tech geeks or fanboys to complain about) to what is on slate for PS3. On the same token, same goes for any x360 title, you name it and it could easily be on the PS3. In fact, you will probably see a lot of instances where the 360 version is superior, and vice versa.

Bah :D

That is unless that is unless we see a lot of lazy development teams, like the on behind Mteal Gear Solid 2: Substance on the Xbox.

Even with good dev tools we're still gonna see a lot of sloppy, sloppy ports.


Guys guys guys .. this is neither good news nor bad news, just some eccentric guy saying something almost utterly random. Should not be taken seriously.

Anyways, the 360 should be more than *capable* of running any title that will appear on PS3, the capabilities of each unit is more than up to the task. Of course, the end result's degree of success or failure depends upon a drastic number of variables (quality of dev kit, competence of coding teams, vision of the producer, budget allotted, time allotted, internal politics, etc, etc).

Just looking at the numbers game for the hardware itself, the r500 graphics engine shouldn't be all that far off of the g70 core that the PS3 is set to use. One only has to look at the PC Market (x1800 series vs. 7800GTX) to see that they are fairly close to being equal in most respects, even if the PC card is the r520. Moving on to Cell vs. the 3-core IBM proc, the strengths and weaknesses of each are still very similar, and you can look at total die size, transistor count, projected integer and floating point performance, to determine that the class of software that each is going to be able to run should be completely in the same class.

In summary, a skilled and budgeted team could almost certainly make a version of MGS4 for x360 that would be damned close (probably too close for anyone but tech geeks or fanboys to complain about) to what is on slate for PS3. On the same token, same goes for any x360 title, you name it and it could easily be on the PS3. In fact, you will probably see a lot of instances where the 360 version is superior, and vice versa.

Bah :D

That is unless that is unless we see a lot of lazy development teams, like the on behind Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance on the Xbox.

Even with good coding we're still gonna see a lot of sloppy, sloppy ports.

Wow. Just.....Wow. Never thought I'd see plagarism on a site like this.

Ed Oscuro
11-16-2005, 10:42 PM
Well, if you follow the link on the first post, and then watch the video and wait for the comment, it's by these other two guys (didn't notice their names) .. not straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
Okay, I can't claim to be brilliant here as I just went by the first post...but Kojima definitely said that. :)

LOL @ Saabmeister. Somebody's got some splainin' to do! P:

InsaneDavid
11-16-2005, 10:50 PM
Remember now, Mr. Kojima speaks JAPANESE, so anything he says is through interpertation and across the history of the "Japanese invasion" of gaming this HAS led to some missteps in the past. Could always be a bobble there.

Honestly in the end from the genius of Hideo Kojima I'm sure no one will debate that he could pull of pretty much anything in video gaming. As was said, he probably meant "yeah, well, I could have my team have the game in it's current state running on the 360 right now - doesn't mean it'll be that way in a year after more development or we're unhappy with the dev kits, etc. Just I could do it. *shrug/laugh/babble more crap to get people talking about MGS4 even during the XBox360 launch*"

The man is a genius, XBox360 launches in a few days and he's got the gaming world talking about that damn MGS4 trailer still. LOL

Ed Oscuro
11-16-2005, 10:55 PM
Remember now, Mr. Kojima speaks JAPANESE, so anything he says is through interpertation and across the history of the "Japanese invasion" of gaming this HAS led to some missteps in the past. Could always be a bobble there.
Yes, when the evidence is incredibly clear, blame the translation! Occam's Razor in action! LOL

Anyway, the guys also mentioned that Kojima developed for the PS3 to differentiate his project from the scores of 360 titles...so it certainly appears that Kojima could simply get in touch with fellow developers (no idea if they're just "across the hall" as he's got his own "studio" these days!) to talk up the current systems.

Anexanhume
11-16-2005, 11:04 PM
When taken into account, 360 has many technical advantages that should make it easier to develop for, so even if there is a disparity in capability of performance, 360 makes up in ease of utilization. Remember, you can project theoretical values all you want. It's up to the programmer to make their code as highly threadable as possible.

njiska
11-16-2005, 11:58 PM
Guys guys guys .. this is neither good news nor bad news, just some eccentric guy saying something almost utterly random. Should not be taken seriously.

Anyways, the 360 should be more than *capable* of running any title that will appear on PS3, the capabilities of each unit is more than up to the task. Of course, the end result's degree of success or failure depends upon a drastic number of variables (quality of dev kit, competence of coding teams, vision of the producer, budget allotted, time allotted, internal politics, etc, etc).

Just looking at the numbers game for the hardware itself, the r500 graphics engine shouldn't be all that far off of the g70 core that the PS3 is set to use. One only has to look at the PC Market (x1800 series vs. 7800GTX) to see that they are fairly close to being equal in most respects, even if the PC card is the r520. Moving on to Cell vs. the 3-core IBM proc, the strengths and weaknesses of each are still very similar, and you can look at total die size, transistor count, projected integer and floating point performance, to determine that the class of software that each is going to be able to run should be completely in the same class.

In summary, a skilled and budgeted team could almost certainly make a version of MGS4 for x360 that would be damned close (probably too close for anyone but tech geeks or fanboys to complain about) to what is on slate for PS3. On the same token, same goes for any x360 title, you name it and it could easily be on the PS3. In fact, you will probably see a lot of instances where the 360 version is superior, and vice versa.

Bah :D

That is unless that is unless we see a lot of lazy development teams, like the on behind Mteal Gear Solid 2: Substance on the Xbox.

Even with good dev tools we're still gonna see a lot of sloppy, sloppy ports.


Guys guys guys .. this is neither good news nor bad news, just some eccentric guy saying something almost utterly random. Should not be taken seriously.

Anyways, the 360 should be more than *capable* of running any title that will appear on PS3, the capabilities of each unit is more than up to the task. Of course, the end result's degree of success or failure depends upon a drastic number of variables (quality of dev kit, competence of coding teams, vision of the producer, budget allotted, time allotted, internal politics, etc, etc).

Just looking at the numbers game for the hardware itself, the r500 graphics engine shouldn't be all that far off of the g70 core that the PS3 is set to use. One only has to look at the PC Market (x1800 series vs. 7800GTX) to see that they are fairly close to being equal in most respects, even if the PC card is the r520. Moving on to Cell vs. the 3-core IBM proc, the strengths and weaknesses of each are still very similar, and you can look at total die size, transistor count, projected integer and floating point performance, to determine that the class of software that each is going to be able to run should be completely in the same class.

In summary, a skilled and budgeted team could almost certainly make a version of MGS4 for x360 that would be damned close (probably too close for anyone but tech geeks or fanboys to complain about) to what is on slate for PS3. On the same token, same goes for any x360 title, you name it and it could easily be on the PS3. In fact, you will probably see a lot of instances where the 360 version is superior, and vice versa.

Bah :D

That is unless that is unless we see a lot of lazy development teams, like the on behind Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance on the Xbox.

Even with good coding we're still gonna see a lot of sloppy, sloppy ports.

Wow. Just.....Wow. Never thought I'd see plagarism on a site like this.

Saabmeister i'd personally like to thank you for pointing that out especially given the history that Xizer and i have.

Xizer even copied by misspelling of the word one. and my reapeting of that is at the begining. (see what happens when you make a post at work and have to hide DP from your boss. Really bad english)

I love it when people find things like this.