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sabre2922
11-18-2005, 12:32 AM
Im just curious as to how many others on this esteemed board has noticed PSPs not selling so well in thier area?

Please no flames

Emuaust
11-18-2005, 12:39 AM
do i see PSP's lying around collecting dust?. why yes I do, in my bloody store!!!.

in all serious though I havent sold one for 3 weeks, yet I have shifted 11 DS's in that time, the Mario Kart bundle here in Aus is really good value!.

GrayFox
11-18-2005, 12:43 AM
At my Gamestop, we haven't sold one Giga PSP yet, and we have a crapload of new sitting in back.

What's crazy though, we literally have piles of used ones just building up in the back, and a relatively small pile of used DS's.

Just.. delivering the truth.

Buyatari
11-18-2005, 12:57 AM
We don't see many traded in. When they are traded in they sit for along time. People ask about them but I think the price is too high on these right now.

For $250 You can have

1. a new psp
or
2. A new gamecube AND (new xbox or new PS2)

vahn401
11-18-2005, 01:09 AM
At the Best Buy I work at, I tend to sell at least one PSP system a day, but at the same time, I'll also push out about 5 DS systems. I did manage to sell one of those new giga pack PSP's though.

The thing is, people come in all the time, alot of the time being young teenage girls thinking, they're getting this wonderful unit that they're only using it for is music, videos and a little gaming. In the end, I talk them into buying a DS (better game library) and one of those new video IPODS.

sabre2922
11-18-2005, 01:11 AM
We don't see many traded in. When they are traded in they sit for along time. People ask about them but I think the price is too high on these right now.

For $250 You can have

1. a new psp
or
2. A new gamecube AND (new xbox or new PS2)

Agreed I think this is the main reason why the PSP isnt selling.

I personally would rather have a Gamecube/Xbox and new backup PS2 than ONE PSP anyday.

Also Its great to get some real responses thankx

wufners
11-18-2005, 01:17 AM
I just bought my first PSP (used) last weekend, so there's one less of those on an EB shelf. And I gotta say, that's an absolutely beautiful piece of hardware. 'Course, I get home to eventually discover at least 7 always lit pixels. I don't care what the manual sez, for $200 clams that's a malfunction in my book so back is goes this weekend.

If it's not selling well I would guess it's 'cuz of the combination of being too expensive, flakey hardware, and lack of a killer ap.

Generally, I see 2 or 3 PSPs sitting on any given store's shelf. Of course, I also see 2 or 3 of every other console sitting right next to it. The only console that I see sold uut of with any consistency is the X-Box, and I don't even see that very often.

All the Gamestops in my area have PILES of used DSs. It's ridiculous. Since nobody keeps the PSPs where you can see 'em, I have no idea how many of thsoe are sitting on the shelf.

suckerpunch5
11-18-2005, 01:18 AM
I DO see a PSP collecting dust. It is MINE, and its sitting on the coffee table, waiting for a game I care about.

Which I haven't been able to find yet.

Richter Belmount
11-18-2005, 01:21 AM
two words : xmas = sales

dont matter people will be scrampling for them then

classicb
11-18-2005, 01:25 AM
The DS price points are killing the PSP IMO. While the PSP is priced over $100 more than the DS the games are around $15-20 more as well. I think that all adds up to the PSP sitting on shelves this season. The new DS bundels probably aren't making it any easier for the PSP. When games come with the system it makes parents very happy.

s1lence
11-18-2005, 01:29 AM
At both my local gamecrazy and ebgames, you can tell they aren't moving at all. Yet it seems like they are still recieving some new shippments of them and they have no place to put the units.

McBacon
11-18-2005, 02:16 AM
In my local towns, there are signs everywhere trying to shift the PSPs before christmas, and the DSs are sold out, pretty funky.

ae.tc
11-18-2005, 02:25 AM
-_- Who has time to glance at PSPs?

Daltone
11-18-2005, 04:37 AM
I was wandering around the city centre in Manchester the other day, looking for something to buy. In Game there seemed to be no end of PSPs (there was even a sign saying that they had them in stock). Surprisingly (to me, anyway) they were totally sold out of DSs, I found out when the woman next to me tried to buy one.

In HMV is was the same, I saw a guy try to buy a DS only to be told that they were sold out, and an abundance of PSPs lurking about. On the PSP shelves there was a greater variety and number of films than actual games.

However, I do think that Xmas + GTA should equal "sales" for the PSP.

Whiskers the Wonder Cat
11-18-2005, 07:13 AM
Is there any good games out for the PSP? And I'm talking good "only on PSP" games, not games that are ports from PS2 that are sometimes given different names.

davidbrit2
11-18-2005, 08:54 AM
Is there any good games out for the PSP? And I'm talking good "only on PSP" games, not games that are ports from PS2 that are sometimes given different names.

Ridge Racer, Grip Shift, I heard Mercury is neat... Though none of those is really a killer app, unless you're a Ridge Racer fanatic. Heh.

Gemini-Phoenix
11-18-2005, 09:02 AM
I notice UMD's not selling well due to their extortionate prices. Besides, most people already own the Dvd's, and these UMD's aren't anything special... They are just as scabby as vanilla Dvd's, and they do nothing to make people actually want to buy them, especially at that sort of price. Now if there were some nice limited edition sets or something...

Tony Montana
11-18-2005, 09:25 AM
We sell pretty much 50/50 PSPs and DSs niether is flying off the shelf but we have a lot more used DSs than PSPs.

allsport11
11-18-2005, 09:32 AM
Funny thing is almost everyone I know is a gamer, either classic or current, and only one of them owns a PSP and none own a DS. I own neither. O_O Nothing really on the PSP that I want to play other than Medieval and Castlevania on the DS. I'm not going to shell out all that green just for two games when I can spend that money are more important games/systems. :)

Mayhem
11-18-2005, 10:04 AM
I was wandering around the city centre in Manchester the other day, looking for something to buy. In Game there seemed to be no end of PSPs (there was even a sign saying that they had them in stock). Surprisingly (to me, anyway) they were totally sold out of DSs, I found out when the woman next to me tried to buy one.

Start stuffing them on eBay mate, there's no PSP to be found anywhere in the south of England...

johno590
11-18-2005, 10:18 AM
I would say that the price is hurting the sales for the PSP. I don't have any local video game places so I wouldn't know whats selling and what isn't, but it just seems like the PSP doesn't have much going for it.

kevin_psx
11-18-2005, 11:07 AM
Is there any good games out for the PSP? And I'm talking good "only on PSP" games

GTA liberty city. quicksilver/mercury/or whatever it's called


You think PSP is doomed to fall under the weight of the Nintendo Portable - like GameGear and Atari Lynx?

GrayFox
11-18-2005, 11:14 AM
Is there any good games out for the PSP? And I'm talking good "only on PSP" games

GTA liberty city. quicksilver/mercury/or whatever it's called


You think PSP is doomed to fall under the weight of the Nintendo Portable - like GameGear and Atari Lynx?

Yeah, but GTA has superior versions on Xbox and PS2. I guess its nice to play on the road and all. Still have issues with that game, coughcontrolscough.

The best game on the system, and the only game right now that I see worth owning is Lumines, and if you like Metal Gear/Strategy games, Metal Gear Acid. Those games I've enjoyed, and you can't experience them elsewhere.

Dangerboy
11-18-2005, 11:36 AM
Here in a mall environment, it's give and take. I actually sell a bit more GBA SPs than the DS (which is almost the same) and than PSP is usually dead last.

What's interesting is that Liberty City Stories seems to have backfired on Sony and Rockstar. Granted, we'll have to wait till Christmas to see for sure, but it's the same story with every customer:

Customer - "Yeah I need Liberty City Stories for PS2 (XBox)"
Me - "It's a PSP exclusive."
Customer - "You mean it's not on the PS2 (XBox)"
Me - "Unfortunately, no."
Customer - "Oh...that sucks"

The 'sucks comment' has been a toss up of depression, anger, and hopelessness. I have YET to sell a PSP and a GTA LCS in the same bundle. I think had Rockstar made it for all 3 with some sort fo link up feature (PS2 exclusive?) I think it would have done a LOT better.

Surprisingly, we've gotten a lot of the higher profile PSP Games, like GTA and Battlefront traded in because of control issues. Socom was a retail store's bread and butter for 2 incarnations, and now the PSP version (and to a degree, Socom 3) seem to have no life in them.

After playing with the demo kiosk that Sony only sent out a year too late with a game no one cares about (The Con)...it seems like the PSP is destined to be the bargin bin basement system everyone buys just to hack.

GrayFox
11-18-2005, 11:51 AM
Customer - "Yeah I need Liberty City Stories for PS2 (XBox)"
Me - "It's a PSP exclusive."
Customer - "You mean it's not on the PS2 (XBox)"
Me - "Unfortunately, no."
Customer - "Oh...that sucks"


I've had this exact same exchange with about 20 people.

hydr0x
11-18-2005, 01:32 PM
Customer - "Yeah I need Liberty City Stories for PS2 (XBox)"
Me - "It's a PSP exclusive."
Customer - "You mean it's not on the PS2 (XBox)"
Me - "Unfortunately, no."
Customer - "Oh...that sucks"


I've had this exact same exchange with about 20 people.

same at the store i work at :/

petewhitley
11-18-2005, 01:43 PM
While interesting, these case-studies are really irrelevant. Overall, worldwide, the PSP has been a resounding success for Sony. UMDs have been the great unexpected tech success of the year. This isn't based on personal observations, it's based on actual sales. The PSP may not be selling quite as well as the DS, but that does not make it a failure.

Captain J
11-18-2005, 01:58 PM
i take in a good 7-8 used psps a week in my store and maybe one ds a month. thank goodness for amazon or id never get rid of them!

FlufflePuff
11-18-2005, 01:58 PM
Where I work, we rarely sell DS's. We sell lots of games for the DS and very few for the PSP, but by and large we sell many more new PSPs than DS's. I personally have no allegiance to either system (still in love with my SP), but it is interesting to me that certain regions seem to be selling one unit more or less than another region.

goatdan
11-18-2005, 03:50 PM
Dammit Pete, why'd you have to post first ;)

I think that the PSP has definitely been selling less than the DS lately, thanks to Nintendo really pulling out some software for the DS that people want to play. Between Nintendogs being a surprise hit (even to Nintendo, as it was sold out EVERYWHERE for a long time after it's release), Castlevania and Mario Kart DS, there is a large demand for the systems suddenly.

While Liberty Cities is a killer app for the PSP, I think the problem was defined to me very well by a store manager from around town -- the advertising and the game are aimed at a group of people that for the most part cannot afford the system and the game, and they can't get their parents to get it.

I'm not saying that LCS is going to be a failure -- it won't be -- but if the "success" of it depends on it selling tons of systems, it alone hasn't been able to do that yet.

I think there is a lot of interest in the system. Hell, it's beautiful, it has seemingly endless possibilities of uses, and it has features that aren't on other systems. The problem is that it is running into at the moment, in my opinion, is that there are other things that do the same sorts of things as the PSP that people want more.

iPods do video and music, and GameBoys (and DSes) do games. I think that the crowd that the PSP is aimed at is the same crowd that the iPod is aimed at, and currently the iPod is winning. This is not in any way a knock against the 'all-in-one' machine the PSP is trying to be. The problem is that there are things that people currently see as better options.

Will that change? I think so. In fact, the history of the DS proves this. Does anyone remember last Febuary and March when practically nothing was coming out for the DS, and those games that did come out weren't very good? The time when all of the Nintendo people kept saying, "They're just figuring out the hardware. Give them time."

Well, those Nintendo people were right. There are tons of DS games coming out now finally that are making people want to buy the system. In fact, I would argue that they had a launch that was much like the launch of the PS2 -- it came out early with few games that people really wanted, and people went crazy for it immediately (remember how the Matrix movie was the best selling "title" for it for months in Japan?) Well, the same thing happened with the DS, except people didn't hold onto it because they couldn't watch movies with it. So, there was a huge sell-off peroid while the library expanded, and now that it has DSes are selling very strongly again.

The PSP is in the same sort of situation right now. It has had a lull in releases, and a lot of the releases haven't been must-haves... yet. The reason for the high quantity of UMD sales? Probably the same reason that the Matrix sold so highly at the PS2's launch. People want to use this sweet hardware for something, and until games fill the hole and make the hardware into something really must-have again, that's what will fill the space.

What will make the hardware must have? Two things, I think. First is a price drop of both hardware and software. I was seriously considering getting one this past week because I had $165 worth of credit, but I decided not to yet. Why? Because I could apply that amount of money to a bunch of games and wait for the system to come down in price. Had it been $199, I would've happily bought one. It also bothers me that the games aren't cheaper than they are. Yes, there is a lot of space on those discs, but $50.00 for a portable? Too much, and I think a lot of the general public agrees with that (if not the DVD / UMD thing ;) )

The second thing is a few more games like GTA:LCS. At this high of a price point, one game isn't enough to be a system seller to the general masses. Another two or three games that were as high profile as GTA:LCS would really help. It also didn't help when R* got all their negative publicity over the hot coffee business -- now parents have been alerted that the GTA series isn't a reason to justify a purchase for a kid. They need another two or three really awesome software titles to push them over the edge.

So, will it happen? Yes. In fact, I would be greatly surprised if Sony didn't experience a Christmas next year with the PSP like I expect Nintendo to deliver this year with the DS. I would be very surprised if we didn't have software will come out that will really push the hardware, hardware upgrades will happen so that the battery life lasts longer and less pixels are burnt out on new units, and a price drop on the console by this time next year. When all of that happens together, the PSP will be hard to slow down.

The DS is a great little system, but it presents SUCH a different gameplay dynamic than the PSP that I don't foresee it being the runaway "winner" of the wars. The DS with its touch screen is a different beast than the PSP with it's startingly good screen and graphics.

davepesc
11-18-2005, 04:09 PM
I debated which to get for a long time, and I think I will be getting a Mario Kart DS bundle.

There's just nothing on the PSP I really want to play and at least half a dozen DS games I really want with more in the pipeline.

Daltone
11-18-2005, 04:19 PM
I was wandering around the city centre in Manchester the other day, looking for something to buy. In Game there seemed to be no end of PSPs (there was even a sign saying that they had them in stock). Surprisingly (to me, anyway) they were totally sold out of DSs, I found out when the woman next to me tried to buy one.

Start stuffing them on eBay mate, there's no PSP to be found anywhere in the south of England...

If only I could afford one, let alone any higher quantity!

rbudrick
11-18-2005, 04:29 PM
We don't see many traded in. When they are traded in they sit for along time. People ask about them but I think the price is too high on these right now.

For $250 You can have

1. a new psp
or
2. A new gamecube AND (new xbox or new PS2)

Agreed I think this is the main reason why the PSP isnt selling.

I personally would rather have a Gamecube/Xbox and new backup PS2 than ONE PSP anyday.

Also Its great to get some real responses thankx

Well, some may argue it's the games, but I say both. ;)

Lol, jk....but seriously, there's a lot of DS games I want and I still haven't seen a PSP game that I want to buy...and I have a PSP. Can't wait for that Gradius collection (drool).

-ROb

mr_nihilism
11-18-2005, 04:42 PM
I debated which to get for a long time, and I think I will be getting a Mario Kart DS bundle.

There's just nothing on the PSP I really want to play and at least half a dozen DS games I really want with more in the pipeline.

I debated as well and MK was the deciding factor.

petewhitley
11-18-2005, 10:12 PM
Dammit Pete, why'd you have to post first ;) ... [too many great observations to quote]

I was just trying to lure you in here Dan! LOL

Those were some of the most insightful and honest observations about the current state of the PSP (and DS) ever posted on this board. It's perplexing to me that Sony hasn't exploited the early interest and inherent "sexiness" of the PSP by releasing more "must-have" games than GTA: Liberty City Stories and to a lesser-extent Socom. The Matrix/UMD analogy is spot-on I think. Despite my relucatance, I've even purchased a few UMDs at this point just for the novelty value and desire to make further use of my $250 investment. That said, as a working adult what games I have do keep me occupied, but a wider selection would be appreciated by all and definitely draw in even more consumers. I do think that when Sony is finished developing the PS3 they will give the PSP some of the attention it deserves; it certainly has the technology in it to last for some time as a premium handheld. And it's amazing to me that a $50 discount was not a part of the Xmas plan.

unwinddesign
11-19-2005, 12:44 AM
I'll tell you why Liberty City Stories isn't storming the charts. EBGames and places like it won't let you buy it unless you're 18. I requested it, and was freaking carded for it. That's ridiculous. I was just like, dude, does it look like I have ID, and perhaps more importantly, does it look like I'm some 12 year old quif who is gonna tell all his friends about "teh coolzzorz GTAS for PSPS!!!11?"

Being 16, I can't buy the game in a brick and mortar store, but I can, using my trusty debit card, purchase the game from ANY PLACE I choose online, along with copious amounts of porn, booze and other such substances.

All I'm saying is that they're killing their main demographic by not selling it in the actual stores. Most people don't have the credit card when they're 14 - 17, which it seems many PSP owners are. I know if the game had came out last year, I wouldn't have been playing it, because there would have been no way to get it.

On a somewhat related note, there is a lot of cursing in the game -- much more than GTA 3/Vice City. The humor seems more juvenile though. Overall, it's a pretty good game.

And UMDs, while a neat technology, are way too expensive at this point. Some of the movies are $30, which I can buy on a higher quality DVD format for $15, then rip to my $50 1 GB stick. However, UMDs can be had for rather cheap on eBay, so I guess it's not all bad. I may pick up a few for watching during free periods.

Basically, to sum up my point, I'm just saying that in releasing these so called "mature" and "console-like" games on the PSP, the people who want to buy them are essentially shut out and told they can't have it. And when the only games worth a damn on the PSP are T to M rated affairs (Lumines excluded), that severely limits just who exactly will buy it, and the market for games. The DS, on the other hand, has a wide variety of games that are A) cheaper and B) of greater quality than much of the PSP's shovelware crap. Still didn't keep me from selling my DS, but the PSP is seriously lacking in the games department. Liberty City Stories, Lumines, and maybe (in my opinion at least) Twisted Metal Head On (having owned Wipeout Pure, Ridge Racer, Metal Gear Ac!d and THUG 2: Remix as well).

goatdan
11-19-2005, 01:41 AM
Dammit Pete, why'd you have to post first ;) ... [too many great observations to quote]

I was just trying to lure you in here Dan! LOL

Dude! You're supposed to be putting up the front about how we are in a war over these two systems, and whenever we go into a thread it might as well just be locked. People are going to catch on that we're just debating stuff at some point otherwise ;)

Just a few comments...


Those were some of the most insightful and honest observations about the current state of the PSP (and DS) ever posted on this board. It's perplexing to me that Sony hasn't exploited the early interest and inherent "sexiness" of the PSP by releasing more "must-have" games than GTA: Liberty City Stories and to a lesser-extent Socom.

I think the problem that Sony especially runs into is that they aren't their main developer. In the case of the DS, Nintendo as the manufacturer needs people to come up with great games to show off the touch pad (WarioWare, Yoshi, Kirby), the WiFi (Mario Kart, Animal Crossing) and so on so what happens? Nintendo relys on Nintendo the software developer to provide those games.

Sony's biggest hits for the most part are not in-house deals. Metal Gear could be a huge hit, but ultimately it is up to Konami to make the game, not Sony. Same with GTA:LCS. And so on. Couple that with the fact that Sony made the hardware a little more difficult to program by putting in such a powerful processor that you can only use parts of or you burn the battery too quickly, and it's a risky proposition.

It will turn around, initial hardware sales were strong enough that developers realize it's a goldmine with the proper game, but it takes longer as the developer isn't necessarily looking to also move hardware the way Nintendo is.


The Matrix/UMD analogy is spot-on I think. Despite my relucatance, I've even purchased a few UMDs at this point just for the novelty value and desire to make further use of my $250 investment. That said, as a working adult what games I have do keep me occupied, but a wider selection would be appreciated by all and definitely draw in even more consumers.

I actually really feel that the strange launch of the PS2 is the new standard for a successful console launch, especially compared to the Dreamcast. That might sound odd, as the Dreamcast had like four killer apps immediately (Soul Calibur and NFL2K were the big ones, but Marvel Vs. Capcom and Sonic Adventure were also of course huge), but the fact is that while the Dreamcast captured the market's attention immediately, after that they had their lull, and then others got the attention.

What Sony did with the PS2 was get the media's attention by flaunting the hardware specs to the point that the hype was big enough to buy it right away when it came out, when Fantavision was about the best launch title (I forget the others, but that was the one that really got my interest). People grabbed the PS2, and then Sony kept media attention by announcing or rolling out one must-have game every month or two. It allowed them to get hardware made at a more steady rate and keep media attention high. Since the PS2 could be used for other media, people were okay with waiting for the games to come.

The PSP is in the exact same boat. Like I said, the DS had their lull and everyone sold them off. If they had (beating ye old horse to death, as usual) the PDA functionality, I think a lot more people would've kept them at that time to use as a PDA figuring the "other stuff will come." Now, that stuff is coming and both new and used DSes are selling everywhere.


I do think that when Sony is finished developing the PS3 they will give the PSP some of the attention it deserves; it certainly has the technology in it to last for some time as a premium handheld. And it's amazing to me that a $50 discount was not a part of the Xmas plan.

I agree with all of those statements, but I think that the PSP will start getting more attention sooner than that. Because of the fact Sony isn't the biggest developer, it allows other developers to take up the challenges no matter what is going on, and they surely will.


I'll tell you why Liberty City Stories isn't storming the charts. EBGames and places like it won't let you buy it unless you're 18. I requested it, and was freaking carded for it. That's ridiculous. I was just like, dude, does it look like I have ID, and perhaps more importantly, does it look like I'm some 12 year old quif who is gonna tell all his friends about "the coolzzorz GTAS for PSPS!!!11?"

See, the problem is that if the store sells it to you, it's their fault. When you purchase the game online through a retailer, you are misrepresenting yourself which clears the seller of damages.

The solution? Take a parent or guardian to the store with you and have them get it for you. If you're mature enough for it (and I'm sure that you are), they should have no problem with it. If they do, then that's a whole different ball of wax that you have to deal with at some point anyway. If that's the only reason that the game is lacking sales though...

I really don't think so. I think it is the combination of parents being alerted to GTA = possible porn (and yes, I know the *full* story and don't want to hear it again, that's what the collective minds tend to think), then they aren't buying it any more for their kids like they were.... and the fact that most kids aged 14-17 don't have the money for a $250 portable (that isn't currently as hip as having an iPod), and their parents won't spring that much for a game system. The crowd with PSPs seems to be tech-saavy types who are older and parents who want a nice entertainment system for their kids that does everything -- including games, music and movies -- which nothing else does. The 14-17 year old market won't get tapped to their full potential until that price drop.

jdc
11-19-2005, 08:45 AM
Well, here I go. I'll offer you another take on the situation.

My beautiful, gorgeous, wonderful, 8-dead-pixel PSP and it's great game library will be traded in next week for a shiny new Mario Kart Edition DS and starter library.

Why? One small observation is that I've noticed the prices of PSP games to be steadily creeping UP, while I've noticed that the prices of DS games are MUCH lower. This is something that I'm considering because I tend to buy lots of software. I was on the verge of considering a PSP movie library, but that's a cash layout that I don't really want to begin. I like the fact that the DS will be able to play all of the GBA RPGs as well. But these are small "reasons".

The main reason for dumping my PSP? It may sound silly to most of you. I have arthritic hands from years of severe pounding while riding trials bicycles, which have no suspension. Everytime I play my PSP my thumbs end up hurting because of the insanely stupid positioning of the thumb nub. This is magnified by the fact that winter is now here and cold temperatures don't help matters any. It gets so bad that I have to try and hold the PSP "way up" against my fingertips so that my thumb is positioned straight upwards on the nub, which gets precarious for the PSP, since it isn't properly supported. It's a strange balancing act. I just can't physically play it if the game requires the nub. I've got the new GTA sitting on my shelf unplayed. I was SO looking forward to Monster Hunter.

I never once looked at the DS when considering the purchase of a new handheld. It was the PSP for me because of the versatility of it, coupled with the promise of familiar Sony franchises. On second look, the DS appears to be awesome and I'm sure that I'll love it just as much as I've loved my PSP. The main thing is that when I recently tested a DS, it was wonderful. No pain. I can actually physically PLAY this system. The D-pad and other buttons are mercifully positioned way up high.

It's a shitty lousy reason to have to dump a system, especially when you love the thing and you've sunk an assload of money into a game library, but at least there's consolation in the fact that the DS is very good as well. I'm interested in using that dual screen stuff. And yeah, I've noticed that more people prefer their DS to their PSP, by an alarming margin.

RCM
11-19-2005, 12:28 PM
I don't get how anyone can say the PSP isn't selling well while the DS is doing great. Sony announced a little while back that it shipped 10 million units worldwide. I understand that all of them purty lilttle PSP's haven't been sold but i'll go out on a limb and say the sales must be reasonably close to that number.

Around the same time Reggie stated that DS has sold 8 million units WW. DS is doing great in Japan, they just sold over 2 million consoles there this year. But it's not doing as great elsewhere. I love the GBA line but they have to drop it and advertise that the DS is BC to GBA.

However flawed the PSP is at least Sony has their eyes on the prize while Nintendo is pulling a Sega with 3 different handhelds on the market. Focus on DS only Nintendo!

Oh yeah, it's interesting that the DS is selling so well in japan. THe combination of a low price point, innovative, and traditional titles is really helping Nintendo. I don't see Revolution doing well over here but I wouldn't be shocked if they pulled an upset and ruled in Japan.

unwinddesign
11-19-2005, 01:51 PM
C'mon Dan, how many 16 year olds bring their moms and dads to the store to buy a game? That's not something they do. Do 16 year olds (or teenagers in general) want their parents involved in anything they do? ;) LOL

I understand that there is liability issues, and I'm not trying to say that they SHOULD sell it to minors; I was just saying that the demographic of the PSP has difficulty buying said mature games.

goatdan
11-20-2005, 12:55 AM
I don't get how anyone can say the PSP isn't selling well while the DS is doing great. Sony announced a little while back that it shipped 10 million units worldwide. I understand that all of them purty lilttle PSP's haven't been sold but i'll go out on a limb and say the sales must be reasonably close to that number.

Around the same time Reggie stated that DS has sold 8 million units WW. DS is doing great in Japan, they just sold over 2 million consoles there this year. But it's not doing as great elsewhere. I love the GBA line but they have to drop it and advertise that the DS is BC to GBA.

8 million units sold vs. 10 million units shipped is totally apples to oranges. We have no clue how many units were shipped that are waiting to sell, or how many were shipped for the holidays.


However flawed the PSP is at least Sony has their eyes on the prize while Nintendo is pulling a Sega with 3 different handhelds on the market. Focus on DS only Nintendo!

I think it's rather different. Nintendo is moving tons of GBAs still, and tons more DS systems. Unlike the Sega systems, both handhelds are being properly supported.

The GameCube was a sinking ship long before the DS launched, so why they should shut down a popular line just to promote another popular line is beyond me.


Oh yeah, it's interesting that the DS is selling so well in japan. THe combination of a low price point, innovative, and traditional titles is really helping Nintendo. I don't see Revolution doing well over here but I wouldn't be shocked if they pulled an upset and ruled in Japan.

I would be floored if Nintendo captured more than 25% of the Japanese market with the Revolution.

The thing that Nintendo is doing correctly here, by the way, is coming out with a bunch of games for the holiday season that are crazy popular. Between Nintendogs, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing and Metroid Pinball, the system has enough cross-genre games to interest just about anyone. The PSP doesn't have the same line up.

Wait 'til next year.


C'mon Dan, how many 16 year olds bring their moms and dads to the store to buy a game? That's not something they do. Do 16 year olds (or teenagers in general) want their parents involved in anything they do? ;) LOL

Heh, I do understand that. At the same time, I put off driving until I was 18, so game stores at age 16 automatically came with parent's attached. Since they hated them, I tended to do my shopping online (and thus is the beginnings of the tale of the GOAT Store...)

Ironically, my dad now LOVES going to GameStop and EB Games for movies, and he stops at least once a week and talks about how great they are constantly. LOL


I understand that there is liability issues, and I'm not trying to say that they SHOULD sell it to minors; I was just saying that the demographic of the PSP has difficulty buying said mature games.

Yes, and that I agree with totally.

Icarus Moonsight
11-20-2005, 01:31 AM
two words : xmas = sales

dont matter people will be scrampling for them then

This is Xmas shopping season and as far as I can tell PSP's are not moving. Most stores in my area are finding it impossible to keep the Nintendogs bundled DS in stock for longer than a day while the same stores are sitting on 40+ PSP's. Recently I've found PSP games on clearence at Target stores around here... I found Darkstalkers Chronicles for $7.49 and Ridge Racer for $9.99 and a bunch of sports games at that range also.

Yeah... not looking good for Sony...

RCM
11-20-2005, 02:00 AM
8 million units sold vs. 10 million units shipped is totally apples to oranges. We have no clue how many units were shipped that are waiting to sell, or how many were shipped for the holidays.

I've acknowledged that there's no concrete worldwide PSP sales numbers to compare. Although i've read that the actual WW sales of PSP is estimated to be 50-70% of 10 million. Do the math, PSP is doing very well and that was the point in mentioning it. Don't be fooled Nintendo fanboys!


I think it's rather different. Nintendo is moving tons of GBAs still, and tons more DS systems. Unlike the Sega systems, both handhelds are being properly supported.

The GameCube was a sinking ship long before the DS launched, so why they should shut down a popular line just to promote another popular line is beyond me.

Sega confused customers and Nintendo is doing so as well. There aren't too many (if any) more major GBA titles coming. DS is not selling "a ton" in the United States. I am able to get Japanese hardware sales figures weekly but it's tough in the states. Here's the May handheld US sales figures:

250,000 PSPs
Nintendo's DS: 57,000
GBA 223,000

This seems to be the picture in the states month in and month out. I know there was a spike in sales with the price drop and when Nintendogs hit over here. Do you have the sales figures from the past few months in the states? I'd love to see em. From what i've heard the DS has cooled and that's why the big N needs to focus on one handheld. The DS is the future not the GBA. Reggie admitted that the Micro was designed to gather cash in the short term and nothing more. Ugh, wake up Nintendo! Focus on the future.


The thing that Nintendo is doing correctly here, by the way, is coming out with a bunch of games for the holiday season that are crazy popular. Between Nintendogs, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing and Metroid Pinball, the system has enough cross-genre games to interest just about anyone. The PSP doesn't have the same line up.

Wait 'til next year.

Those titles are popular to Nintendo's core audience but that's all with the exception of Nintendogs. That's one of Nintendo's biggest strengths and problems: their franchises. They've built a base that would buy feces if Mario's face was slapped on it. The casuals have moved on. Nintendo's franchises that have been around since the 80's like Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc. are polarizing. You either love em or hate generally and judging by sales more and more people are drifting away.

DS may very well have a better line up this year but don't doubt that the PSP's lame showing is appealing to the gamers that matter: the casuals. UMD popularity doesn't hurt either!

hydr0x
11-20-2005, 06:07 AM
Here's the May handheld US sales figures

enough said, you're fooling yourself here

i can tell you one thing, the city i live in is totally Sony biased (all Nintendo and MS stuff is selling far worse than in an average german city) and we maybe sold 30-40% of our PSP units, the november sales until now look this way:

DS: 31
GBA: 22
PSP: 8

Damion
11-20-2005, 10:21 AM
I can see the PSP making a splash sometime next year honestly. I have both systems. Right now, the DS gets alot more playing time then most any of my others. I have no Idea why they are bringing out games with controls Like coded arms. Having to use the buttons to Look/Move suck. Things like that are much better suited for a dual analog.

Well, heres hoping that next year will be better for the PSP and hopefully there will be a price drop in the near future . Not that it would matter to me. I have two and I don't think I'll be buying another one.

RCM
11-20-2005, 10:49 AM
Here's the May handheld US sales figures

enough said, you're fooling yourself here

i can tell you one thing, the city i live in is totally Sony biased (all Nintendo and MS stuff is selling far worse than in an average german city) and we maybe sold 30-40% of our PSP units, the november sales until now look this way:

DS: 31
GBA: 22
PSP: 8

I'm not fooling myself. Those were the last concrete US sales figures I've found. I've been told that sales have been similar since besides some spikes made by DS.

Show me some numbers, some studies, something that your city is Sony biased. Show me the US sales figures between June and October.

Come on guys, don't generalize! Just b/c your gamestore may have sold more PSP's than DS' or vice versa doesn't mean it's the rule.

MegaDrive20XX
11-20-2005, 11:17 AM
Customer - "Yeah I need Liberty City Stories for PS2 (XBox)"
Me - "It's a PSP exclusive."
Customer - "You mean it's not on the PS2 (XBox)"
Me - "Unfortunately, no."
Customer - "Oh...that sucks"


I've had this exact same exchange with about 20 people.

same at the store i work at :/

Ditto x 3

exit
11-20-2005, 02:14 PM
I always debated on buying a PSP, but now I'm going to get a DS. The main reason, other than the price, is that DS seems to have more games of interest. I havn't seen one PSP game that I even wanted to play, but there have been several games for DS that I've been eyeing since it's launch.

Another reason is because I've had hands on experience with the DS and I think that the technology is great, tho i was doubtfull about it at first. I do understand why there aren't displays for PSP, but I really don't want to buy something that I really havn't been able to try out first.

I've also noticed that there are almost no DS's at my store, I had to put the one I'm getting on layaway for fear of it not being there later. I'm hoping for a new shipment of the bundle to come in soon, otherwise I'll have to buy a game seperatly.

Simply Dave
11-20-2005, 02:25 PM
I'm buying my kids a DS for Christmas. It was really an easy decision on which portable to get because it all came down to price. The PSP is what...300 clams for the system and a game? We are of the mindset that we might as well get the DS and 5 or 6 games for the same price.

I hope the PSP does really well. A really good war can only mean both companies trying harder and putting out top notch stuff in an effort to beat the other. It seems that Nintendo has really responded to the footsteps of the PSP at the door with great software of its own. Let's hope the trend continues.

petewhitley
11-20-2005, 05:18 PM
Yeah... not looking good for Sony...

Ok. I understand that to the demographic that DigitalPress reaches, the DS is typically more desirable than the PSP. But you guys have got to stop equating your personal one-town observations with profit/marketability/market share. By all real, statistical sales/shipped numbers (yes, shipped is different than sales) for PSP systems/games/UMDs worldwide, Sony has had a tremendous success in the past year with this launch. No, there aren't enough games for alot of you guys. No, UMD doesn't make a whole lot of sense to the average Dp'er. But for godsakes, things are looking damn good for Sony's future in the handheld market. Open your eyes beyond the GameStop you work for. Go back and read Dan's very intelligent and well though-out post regarding the PSP parallels with the early PS2. Sony should be wearing shades right now (... cause the future's so bright ... groan).

PS2Hawk
11-20-2005, 09:03 PM
I think the PSP is going through the same phase as the DS last year... NO FREAKIN GAMES
how ever DS was selling alot because of backward compatibility...

goatdan
11-21-2005, 09:52 AM
I've acknowledged that there's no concrete worldwide PSP sales numbers to compare. Although i've read that the actual WW sales of PSP is estimated to be 50-70% of 10 million. Do the math, PSP is doing very well and that was the point in mentioning it. Don't be fooled Nintendo fanboys!

:roll:

In case you missed it, I was the one stating that the PSP has done extremely well for what it has done so far. But you can't compare numbers of shipped through to numbers of sold units. It is comparing two completely different numbers. And I don't care if you're a Sony or Nintendo fanboy, that's the truth.

Maybe Sony has actually sold 9,500,000 units. Or, with the 50% estimate with you above, they've sold 5,000,000 units. That's an AMAZING difference, and one that you can't compare to.

Companies usually talk about how many units were shipped, as it always sounds much better to investors than how many units were sold though. Nintendo announcing the actual units sold is a very bold statement. Sony announcing they've shipped more means that they probably haven't sold as much, but they want to make it look like they have.


Sega confused customers and Nintendo is doing so as well. There aren't too many (if any) more major GBA titles coming. DS is not selling "a ton" in the United States. I am able to get Japanese hardware sales figures weekly but it's tough in the states. Here's the May handheld US sales figures:

250,000 PSPs
Nintendo's DS: 57,000
GBA 223,000

This seems to be the picture in the states month in and month out. I know there was a spike in sales with the price drop and when Nintendogs hit over here. Do you have the sales figures from the past few months in the states? I'd love to see em. From what i've heard the DS has cooled and that's why the big N needs to focus on one handheld. The DS is the future not the GBA. Reggie admitted that the Micro was designed to gather cash in the short term and nothing more. Ugh, wake up Nintendo! Focus on the future.

You're quoting May. May when there was absolutely nothing coming out for the DS (as I already pointed out too), and the PSP was a pretty darn new product still. The hype was all about the PSP, and the DS was left in the dust.

If you're trying to make it out that the DS is "dying," you're just wrong. With the amount of money and the masses of money riding on these two portables, I wouldn't expect either to "die" any time soon.


Those titles are popular to Nintendo's core audience but that's all with the exception of Nintendogs. That's one of Nintendo's biggest strengths and problems: their franchises. They've built a base that would buy feces if Mario's face was slapped on it. The casuals have moved on. Nintendo's franchises that have been around since the 80's like Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc. are polarizing. You either love em or hate generally and judging by sales more and more people are drifting away.

More and more people have been drifting away thanks to the GameCube releases that didn't live up to their names. Zelda: Wind Waker was a very polarizing game that turned off a lot of casual fans, but by the reaction to the new Zelda game, Zelda is still a very popular franchise.

Animal Crossing is a game that I don't think of as a "traditional" Nintendo franchise. In fact, if I'm not mistaken there has been one other Animal Crossing game, and it was for the GameCube... and it attracted a lot of the same crowd that Nintendogs did.

As for the Mario franchises, a rehash of Mario 64 was the game that was the system seller for the DS last year, and it did amazingly well. If a rehash of a game can move a few million hardware units, then you're doing something right.


DS may very well have a better line up this year but don't doubt that the PSP's lame showing is appealing to the gamers that matter: the casuals. UMD popularity doesn't hurt either!

The PSP's "lame" showing is "appealing" to casual gamers? I'm sorry, but I don't think that "casual" people think that a small library of games and a higher price point is more appealing than anything else.

I'm not and haven't been stating that there is a winner. I'm not and haven't been doing saying that there is any definite answers here. But for certain, this holiday season the DS looks like it is doing better than the PSP. And as I've also stated, I expect the PSP to have a season like the DS will have this season next year, and the DS will have to struggle for attention to move consoles. But this year, the DS is going to "win" more sales over the holiday season.

GrayFox
11-21-2005, 10:06 AM
Whoever that 16 year old was, just to let you know, you should not be sold the mature rated game. Why? Because its for audiences 17 and up. Its not more complicated than that.

You're under 17, I won't sell it to you. Why? Because that's the way it's gonna be. I don't feel like risking my job, just so you can play a rather subpar game. I just denied a bunch of kids GTA: San Andreas for the Xbox a few days ago, and yeah, they were all going "Are you like, serious DUDE?!".

Yep, I'm serious. It was pretty awesome when the mother of the children came back and thanked me for not selling it to them. The created the ratings for a reason, and our store policy is to follow the ESRB ratings, so I'm gonna.

RCM
11-21-2005, 11:25 AM
In case you missed it, I was the one stating that the PSP has done extremely well for what it has done so far. But you can't compare numbers of shipped through to numbers of sold units. It is comparing two completely different numbers. And I don't care if you're a Sony or Nintendo fanboy, that's the truth.

Maybe Sony has actually sold 9,500,000 units. Or, with the 50% estimate with you above, they've sold 5,000,000 units. That's an AMAZING difference, and one that you can't compare to.

Companies usually talk about how many units were shipped, as it always sounds much better to investors than how many units were sold though. Nintendo announcing the actual units sold is a very bold statement. Sony announcing they've shipped more means that they probably haven't sold as much, but they want to make it look like they have.

You don't need to reply saying the same thing a third time or explain to me what companies do. I acknowledged there's a difference and provided possible numbers. All you've done is provide your own POV with no back up. Not a bash, just a fact.


You're quoting May. May when there was absolutely nothing coming out for the DS (as I already pointed out too), and the PSP was a pretty darn new product still. The hype was all about the PSP, and the DS was left in the dust.

If you're trying to make it out that the DS is "dying," you're just wrong. With the amount of money and the masses of money riding on these two portables, I wouldn't expect either to "die" any time soon.

I know i'm quoting May. Those were the last conrete US sales figures I could find. I also acknowledged that the DS has experienced a sales spike from the price drop and Nintendogs release although i dont know by how much. You on the other hand again have provided nothing but your own POV. I wasn't arguing that the DS was dying. I feel if Nintendo offered a single portable they'd have better DS sales.


More and more people have been drifting away thanks to the GameCube releases that didn't live up to their names. Zelda: Wind Waker was a very polarizing game that turned off a lot of casual fans, but by the reaction to the new Zelda game, Zelda is still a very popular franchise.

Animal Crossing is a game that I don't think of as a "traditional" Nintendo franchise. In fact, if I'm not mistaken there has been one other Animal Crossing game, and it was for the GameCube... and it attracted a lot of the same crowd that Nintendogs did. As for the Mario franchises, a rehash of Mario 64 was the game that was the system seller for the DS last year, and it did amazingly well. If a rehash of a game can move a few million hardware units, then you're doing something right.

Actually Animal Crosing was released on N64 in Japan first. I don't know what kind of crowd AC attracted I do know one thing, it didn't sell 250,000 units in its first week like Nintendog's or save the Gamecube at all. That rehash (M64) sold to Nintendo's base. That rehash sold because there really wasn't anything else out there at the time. As for the rehash selling "a few million" units, do you have a concrete number? I've heard it's a million seller for sure but a few million is a vast difference. Again, if you want to debate at least have something more than your own POV (that's POINT OF VIEW) to base your opinion on.


The PSP's "lame" showing is "appealing" to casual gamers? I'm sorry, but I don't think that "casual" people think that a small library of games and a higher price point is more appealing than anything else.

I'm not and haven't been stating that there is a winner. I'm not and haven't been doing saying that there is any definite answers here. But for certain, this holiday season the DS looks like it is doing better than the PSP. And as I've also stated, I expect the PSP to have a season like the DS will have this season next year, and the DS will have to struggle for attention to move consoles. But this year, the DS is going to "win" more sales over the holiday season.

Yeah, shit like Madden is appealing to casuals and hardcore alike. Is $50 for a portable title appealing to anyone? Doubtful. But the PSP has ports of current successful titles. You start out by saying you're not stating there's going to be a "winner" and by the end of your paragraph you point to the DS. Come on!

In a perfect world DS would be the top selling system. The DS is next gen to me, the Revolution looks to be another great step in innovation. I'm not trying to argue/debate with you Dan, but if you're going to make strong statements and debate with me or anyone at least have your statments based in some sort of reality other than your own. I've provided facts and figures, provided numbers that are probably correct such as the 50-70% of 10 million PSP number, and you've come back with nothing. Let's not drag this out more than we have to.

goatdan
11-21-2005, 12:14 PM
You don't need to reply saying the same thing a third time or explain to me what companies do. I acknowledged there's a difference and provided possible numbers. All you've done is provide your own POV with no back up. Not a bash, just a fact.

But what are you using to back it up? I've noted (four times now, I guess) that you can't compare those numbers, not that they mean anything. Since you agree according to your statements above, you shouldn't use those numbers for any basis of fact.


I know i'm quoting May. Those were the last conrete US sales figures I could find. I also acknowledged that the DS has experienced a sales spike from the price drop and Nintendogs release although i dont know by how much. You on the other hand again have provided nothing but your own POV. I wasn't arguing that the DS was dying. I feel if Nintendo offered a single portable they'd have better DS sales.

Of course if Nintendo only offered one portable, they would have better DS sales. But if they are making a lot of money right now off two seperate portables, why eliminate one line just to make the other one have better sales? I doubt that eliminating the GBA line would make DS sales spike enough to cover the GBA line loss.

Nintendo originally was really serious about making the DS into a third pillar, and making it essentially a PDA so that it would appeal to adults more than the GBA. And the GBA would continue to fill the children niche. Since Nintendo hasn't yet come through with their plans for making the DS into a functional PDA, that hasn't happened yet.


Actually Animal Crosing was released on N64 in Japan first. I don't know what kind of crowd AC attracted I do know one thing, it didn't sell 250,000 units in its first week like Nintendog's or save the Gamecube at all.

You had stated before that Animal Crossing only sold to Nintendo's fanbase. Now you say that you don't know where it came from. I can guarantee it did well though, because you can still find the Player's Choice version in stores, even well after most Player's Choice games (Luigi's Mansion, even Mario Sunshine) have mostly left.

And from the people that I know, the people most attracted to Animal Crossing were not casual gamers. In fact, one of my buddies at work, his wife is hopelessly addicted to it. When he gave her a different game for her birthday (Harvest Moon) and a memory card to play it on, when she found that the memory card had an abandoned city on it, she played with the city the entire time and never with Harvest Moon.


That rehash (M64) sold to Nintendo's base. That rehash sold because there really wasn't anything else out there at the time. As for the rehash selling "a few million" units, do you have a concrete number? I've heard it's a million seller for sure but a few million is a vast difference. Again, if you want to debate at least have something more than your own POV (that's POINT OF VIEW) to base your opinion on.

I did not say that Mario DS sold a few million. I said that it was the main reason that a few million systems moved last holiday season. I don't understand why you think that is a "point of view" debate. Last I checked, Ping Pals, Spider-Man and Sprung didn't cause the systems to go flying off the shelves. Why then did Nintendo sell millions of DSes over the holiday last year? If it wasn't Mario DS, please tell me what it was.


Yeah, shit like Madden is appealing to casuals and hardcore alike. Is $50 for a portable title appealing to anyone? Doubtful. But the PSP has ports of current successful titles. You start out by saying you're not stating there's going to be a "winner" and by the end of your paragraph you point to the DS. Come on!

Oi. When even Pete, who defends the PSP to the death says that I'm onto something right, I don't have any idea where you're coming from. I'm not pulling out all the "facts" right now because for the most part, I think it is pretty obvious what we're talking about. This thread was looking at the DS and the PSP in a relative vacuum -- this time of year, and how it seems each is doing. If we're looking worldwide, your figures about number moved and sold through, while still being completely uncomparable are relavant. So are the May sales numbers.

But when we are talking about what the holiday sales will be, I think that you have to look at the current market from your own point-of-view. And like I said, I don't feel that there is or will be a winner in this "war." But I do think that the DS is going to "win" more this Christmas season. And I think that a lot of things -- from the system already selling for more than store cost online (Nintendogs bundles, of which I've personally sold seven of for a profit on eBay) and the lineup of games, and even the fact that the in-store displays at the bigger holiday stores like Toys R Us and Best Buy are bigger and more prominent than the PSP points to the DS having a good season.

I think Sony made some missteps with their system right now. But I think that by next year, the tables will at least be even if not turned.


In a perfect world DS would be the top selling system. The DS is next gen to me, the Revolution looks to be another great step in innovation. I'm not trying to argue/debate with you Dan, but if you're going to make strong statements and debate with me or anyone at least have your statments based in some sort of reality other than your own. I've provided facts and figures, provided numbers that are probably correct such as the 50-70% of 10 million PSP number, and you've come back with nothing. Let's not drag this out more than we have to.

In a perfect world, I don't think that I would put my weight behind anything as a top selling system, although I probably would've liked the Dreamcast to have sold more. I'm not "pulling" for any system, and the reason why I used observations in this thread and not "hard facts" is because were talking about what is more or less a theory about how the sales will shake out this holiday season. And I think, as do many others that based on the information we have, the DS will outsell the PSP this holiday season. I went further to theorize that the PSP would have a holiday season like this next year. But, we'll have to wait and see.

I'm done dragging it out. If you want to argue sales data, please start another thread and I'd be happy to show up in that one, where Pete and I would probably argue about trends (although, honestly, probably not any more thanks to the fact that we have a lot more data to analyze, and less theory to make arguments on) and you would probably agree with me more based on what you've typed.

RCM
11-21-2005, 02:01 PM
There's obviously no getting through to you. I stand firmly behind my opinions and facts. You still haven't offered a single fact while i've delivered many.

You obviously don't understand what i'm saying or do and must defend your opinion no matter how inaccurate. You're not the first to do so on DP. If we ever meet i'd like to debate about this topic some more, perhaps then you'll understand...or not.

Don't get pissed Dan, I extend my hand to you! See ya around.

goatdan
11-21-2005, 02:14 PM
There's obviously no getting through to you. I stand firmly behind my opinions and facts. You still haven't offered a single fact while i've delivered many.

You obviously don't understand what i'm saying or do and must defend your opinion no matter how inaccurate. You're not the first to do so on DP. If we ever meet i'd like to debate about this topic some more, perhaps then you'll understand...or not.

Don't get pissed Dan, I extend my hand to you! See ya around.

I'm not pissed. Just totally, completely baffled about what you are looking at that I'm not. And what facts I'm supposed to be looking at to determine if I *think* the DS will do better than the PSP this season. I think if you go back and read my comparisons of the PSP and the DS to the PS2 life cycle, you would see how I used some real world comparisons in my future hypothesis.

Without firm data on what will happen over the next 45 days, I will continue to make hypotheses about it, and not try to state facts. Sorry if this makes me seem like I'm not listening, but I don't know how else to make an argument other than by looking at past trends and comparing them to the future, and using data from May -- which was right after the PSP came out and when the software line up for the DS sucked hard -- isn't good enough for me.

hydr0x
11-21-2005, 02:17 PM
I'm not fooling myself. Those were the last concrete US sales figures I've found. I've been told that sales have been similar since besides some spikes made by DS.


you have been told? now wow, THAT of course makes things different, i didn't know that. Forgive me, how could i even think about doubting your "numbers"

seriously, if you really think the may sales show ANY similarities to the current sales you're way off
it's a totally different story (and no, i don't have any numbers to prove that, but you don't have any numbers to prove me wrong either...)



Show me some numbers, some studies, something that your city is Sony biased.


i can't, because that's internal company data i'm not allowed to make public

you can trust me on that though, the store i work for has ~75% market share for video games in our region (~150.000 people) and i know our sales results, plus i know the overall media markt sales for Germany. Knowing all of this i can guarantee you that we were and are selling a lot more Sony and a lot less MS/Nintendo units per inhabitant than averagely in Germany.

having said this i can guarantee you that EVEN in our region the psp sales have been heavily dropping during the last 3-4 weeks, the manager of our department is already getting really nervous because he fears to have ordered far too many units for the holiday season. DS/GBA on the other hand have been selling more and more from week to week, and Mario Kart is not even out yet. For DS our manager is afraid he has too few units for Christmas.

Now, i know you can easily bash this as "personal observation" and say it doesn't mean shit about the whole market, but it's just not true, while you can't tell how good or bad a system is ultimately selling from such a limited POV you CAN observate trends, and i've been seeing such trends in the past and they were always reflected in (often much later published) overall market numbers. Another current trend (for the last months though) is the fact that both the Xbox units and games have been selling like crap recently

[/quote]
Come on guys, don't generalize! Just b/c your gamestore may have sold more PSP's than DS' or vice versa doesn't mean it's the rule.[/quote]

no, it does not necessarily mean that, but my observations have been true for germany/europe in 9 out of 10 cases in the past. I've also heard the exact same things from other stores of our chain and various people from publishers. Plus, observing current actual sales definately shows more about the current sales than some May numbers :roll:

unwinddesign
11-21-2005, 05:11 PM
Whoever that 16 year old was, just to let you know, you should not be sold the mature rated game. Why? Because its for audiences 17 and up. Its not more complicated than that.

You're under 17, I won't sell it to you. Why? Because that's the way it's gonna be. I don't feel like risking my job, just so you can play a rather subpar game. I just denied a bunch of kids GTA: San Andreas for the Xbox a few days ago, and yeah, they were all going "Are you like, serious DUDE?!".

Yep, I'm serious. It was pretty awesome when the mother of the children came back and thanked me for not selling it to them. The created the ratings for a reason, and our store policy is to follow the ESRB ratings, so I'm gonna.

I was the 16 year old, and I don't honestly care that they won't sell me the game. It's not a problem for me, because, as mentioned before, I can simply go online, press a few buttons, and be done with it.

I said it's the reason why the game isn't selling that well. A lot of kids own PSPs, want GTA, and can't get it.

I won't get into whether they should/shouldn't sell me (or people in a similar age group) the game or not, because that really wasn't the point.

Avatard
11-21-2005, 05:58 PM
I'm a consumer and I'd rather have an iPod over a PSP any day. And I'm a big gamer. If I want music I get an iPod (not a PSP). If I want a digital camera I buy a camera (not a phone). If I want an address book and online connectivity on the go I buy a PDA (not a phone). I already have music on the go, its called a cd player with mp3 capability in my car. I really do not like people combining lots of things into one because it degrades all of it.

Now I don't believe the PSP games suffered at all due to it becomming a mix of utilities, but the rest of the utilities just won't measure up to a dedicated device. I see it as just a neat option which in no way would push me over the line into buying one when there are no games on it I want to play. And thats the bottom line, the games. What they really need is a Castlevania SoTN port. Then I'd be somewhat tempted.

Icarus Moonsight
11-22-2005, 01:35 AM
Yeah... not looking good for Sony...

Ok. I understand that to the demographic that DigitalPress reaches, the DS is typically more desirable than the PSP. But you guys have got to stop equating your personal one-town observations with profit/marketability/market share. Open your eyes beyond the GameStop you work for.

Quit equating my personal observations? How about you swallow your own flame bait?... My intent was to relay my personal observations on the topic. If my observations or opinions offended you then I have to conclude (from my own observations mind you) that you are quite oversensitive on the subject. Sheesh

zerohero
11-22-2005, 08:13 AM
I see more people at college with a DS, and yet I still have not seen anyone chilling, and playing a PSP :roll:

petewhitley
11-22-2005, 10:41 AM
Yeah... not looking good for Sony...

Ok. I understand that to the demographic that DigitalPress reaches, the DS is typically more desirable than the PSP. But you guys have got to stop equating your personal one-town observations with profit/marketability/market share. Open your eyes beyond the GameStop you work for.

Quit equating my personal observations? How about you swallow your own flame bait?... My intent was to relay my personal observations on the topic. If my observations or opinions offended you then I have to conclude (from my own observations mind you) that you are quite oversensitive on the subject. Sheesh

It wasn't flame bait. Your statement of "Yeah... not looking good for Sony" is rooted solely in your own personal observations and has little to no basis in actual sales or market share. It's a trend I've seen with many comments on this board; ignorance of market trends in favor of personal preference. Your comment crossed the line from subjective experience to pseudo-objective market analysis when you made an attempt to forcast the future of the PSP based on your regional one-man experience.

Kittens_for_Peace
11-22-2005, 01:09 PM
http://www.wonkette.com/images/this%20kitten%20reminds%20me%20of%20moby.jpg

Needle
11-22-2005, 04:08 PM
Yeeesh, this thread sure got ugly in a hurry :o

At the end of the day you can point to the numbers and opinions all you like, but from what I see with my own eyes and the observations of others is that the DS has had a bit more time to mature, and it seems to be showing in terms of pure sales.

Fun facts from your local retail slug: since the launch of the PSP in March, our extremely high-volume store has never once sold out of PSPs. In fact, we replenished our PSP stock with another shipment this week, even though we've already got a cabinet filled to the brim. We cannot get rid of our PSPs to save our lives..

The DS this season has been doing well, with several bundled systems selling every day. Mario Kart seems to be the "killer app" at the moment, and recent figures point to half of all Mario Kart owners logging onto Nintendo's Wifi service (source: gamespot.com). That seems to be a promising number that will probably help sales this coming month.

I could make a bunch of ridiculous generalizations, but the trends seem to point to one thing: The PSP and the DS are following the same exact selling trend in the United States, only about 5 months apart. As the DS hit a lull in the months following its launch, so has the PSP now. I own both systems and would prefer to get use out of both of them. When I first got my DS, it collected dust. Now, my PSP collects dust. Eventually, I expect both to be pretty worthwhile investments.

This Christmas, the DS will probably win. Next Christmas, it's anyone's game. Factoring in things like the abundance of M-rated games, average age of user, etc etc really don't seem to have much factual base. But hey, what do I know, maybe my store will get robbed and haul off the 40+ PSPs we're overstocked with ;)

RCM
11-22-2005, 04:16 PM
It's a trend I've seen with many comments on this board; ignorance of market trends in favor of personal preference.

Glad somebody agrees.

Icarus Moonsight
11-24-2005, 01:08 AM
Yeah... not looking good for Sony...

Ok. I understand that to the demographic that DigitalPress reaches, the DS is typically more desirable than the PSP. But you guys have got to stop equating your personal one-town observations with profit/marketability/market share. Open your eyes beyond the GameStop you work for.

Quit equating my personal observations? How about you swallow your own flame bait?... My intent was to relay my personal observations on the topic. If my observations or opinions offended you then I have to conclude (from my own observations mind you) that you are quite oversensitive on the subject. Sheesh

It wasn't flame bait. Your statement of "Yeah... not looking good for Sony" is rooted solely in your own personal observations and has little to no basis in actual sales or market share. It's a trend I've seen with many comments on this board; ignorance of market trends in favor of personal preference. Your comment crossed the line from subjective experience to pseudo-objective market analysis when you made an attempt to forcast the future of the PSP based on your regional one-man experience.

Ah alright :) I see your point... I'll amend my statement to; Yeah... not looking good for Sony here on planet AP. :D

Peace once again returns to Hyrule...

MarioMania
05-29-2011, 04:36 AM
2011 bump :P

How is the PSP doing now?? Compered to the DS??

Edmond Dantes
05-29-2011, 04:41 AM
I don't know, but I'm saying this:

I own a PSP (3000 model) and I love it. I'm seriously glad I got this instead of a DS.

kupomogli
05-29-2011, 04:53 AM
PSP is better than the DS, but only slightly. Both the PSP and DS are no contest better than any of the home consoles.

megasdkirby
05-29-2011, 07:07 AM
I wasn't touching my PSP in a very long time. I have two units, an old PSP2000 silver (original model with 5.50 M33-6) and a 04G PSP3000 (the one that came with the Karate Kid movie and LBP.

My PSP2000 has a damaged screen that I need to replace (costs me $50 at DealExtreme), and because of that, I haven't used it in months...ever since Y's Seven was released. Recent, thanks to Kupomogli, I was able to install CFW on my PSP3000, which has given it life once more. I simply love to play ISO images of my own games instead of using UMD discs. Simply fantastic.

Overall, it's a great handheld, but I've come to notice that many stores aren't stocking or even selling the system. Makes me want to purchase a third unit as a backup...

Edmond Dantes
05-29-2011, 08:39 AM
My PSP2000 has a damaged screen that I need to replace (costs me $50 at DealExtreme), and because of that, I haven't used it in months...ever since Y's Seven was released. Recent, thanks to Kupomogli, I was able to install CFW on my PSP3000, which has given it life once more. I simply love to play ISO images of my own games instead of using UMD discs. Simply fantastic

Wait... you can do that? I thought that wasn't possible with 3000 models.

The 1 2 P
05-29-2011, 07:19 PM
If the Psp were lowered to $100 it would start to move. And if by some miracle it got lowered to $79 or lower it would literally fly off shelves. I still haven't gotten one so I'm definitely in the market for a 3000. But I have no interest in the Go.

Leo_A
05-29-2011, 08:29 PM
2011 bump :P

How is the PSP doing now?? Compered to the DS??

Even though it's now starting to come to a close, it ended up doing amazingly well for their first time out. Never before has a competitor done so well going up against Nintendo's dominance in handheld gaming. The PSP has nearly 50% of the install base Nintendo accomplished with the DS as of early this year. And when you take into account that the PSP was rolled out to much of the world a good bit later than the DS (Especially in Europe) and ended up drying up significantly earlier than the DS market has outside of Japan, it's even more impressive how successful it's run was for quite a while.

Other than the Sega Game Gear for a couple of years, no one has ever managed to even be a blip on the radar for most consumers in this business beyond Nintendo. Sony not only made a splash, but they gave Nintendo some serious competition and created a good beachhead in this marketplace for them to work off of with the NGP and other portable devices.

Swamperon
05-30-2011, 06:56 AM
Last sales figures I heard was that the DS has sold in the region of 120 million and the PSP around 50-60 million.

Oobgarm
05-30-2011, 09:51 AM
I wasn't touching my PSP in a very long time. I have two units, an old PSP2000 silver (original model with 5.50 M33-6) and a 04G PSP3000 (the one that came with the Karate Kid movie and LBP.

My PSP2000 has a damaged screen that I need to replace (costs me $50 at DealExtreme), and because of that, I haven't used it in months...ever since Y's Seven was released. Recent, thanks to Kupomogli, I was able to install CFW on my PSP3000, which has given it life once more. I simply love to play ISO images of my own games instead of using UMD discs. Simply fantastic.

Overall, it's a great handheld, but I've come to notice that many stores aren't stocking or even selling the system. Makes me want to purchase a third unit as a backup...

...and if you do, you should invest in a Go. The TV out feature and ability to tether a PS3 controller to it is simply awesome. Dropping images on that is super easy, and the storage space ensures you'll have quite the library at your disposal. (Thanks, Vaccy!)

Edmond Dantes
05-30-2011, 10:16 AM
But there's no way to put legitimately-owned UMDs on a Go, without buying them again, isn't there?

geneshifter
05-30-2011, 02:07 PM
I gave myself a laugh with this thread today. I didn't realize it was a 6 year bump and people were talking about the PSP not selling at $200 and I was like Yeah, Duh!

Oobgarm
05-30-2011, 02:15 PM
But there's no way to put legitimately-owned UMDs on a Go, without buying them again, isn't there?

Yes, there is. You have to have a CFW model system and set it to read from UMD instead of memory stick when plugged up USB. All you do is open it up with the computer, then drag and drop the ISO to the hard drive, then transfer them to the Go. Easy as pie. I did this with all of my games with no problems whatsoever.

Leo_A
05-30-2011, 07:46 PM
You must've missed the word "legitimately".

To answer his question, no, there isn't a legitimate way to do it. You have to rebuy your UMD's as digital copies through the PSN store. And a very high percentage of the library, including many great PSP classics, are unavailable on the PSN store.

I keep a 1000 and a 3000 around for the UMD exclusives (And a few games, like Pinball Hall of Fame: The William's Collection that are available on PSN but which I'd just play the console versions of if I wanted to play on a tv).

And I keep a Go around for those games actually available as downloads that I'd like to be able to play on a television with a controller. I hate downloads, but every last one of them I have is cheap as a UMD. And I also have the digital copies on my 1000 and 3000 (And the NGP someday). So I'm not too worried about them going poof someday. And even if they did, it won't be too bad rebuying them as UMD's down the road since it's not a huge collection of downloads (Only a dozen or so) or a lot of rare games.

swlovinist
05-31-2011, 03:17 AM
While the PSP is all but dead in the US, I had to reflect on the system as a collectable and its current state in Game stores.

Sony could have walked away from this system long ago, but continued to support it even when it was on its death bed. I have been pretty vocal about my frustration with Sony and the PS3/marketing/and blowing their dominance of the game industry. The PSP started of terrible, but has ended being a fun little system with a ton of obscure niche titles that will be fun to hunt for. As a collector I feel now is the time to find some of the harder to get stuff. I walked into Gamestop today and walked out with 8 PSP games that only took me back for $40.00.

Oobgarm
05-31-2011, 06:27 AM
You must've missed the word "legitimately".

He didn't ask for a legitimate way to put them on there, he asked if there was a way to put his legitimately-owned UMDs on there.

You must have mis-read what he asked for.