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lendelin
02-18-2009, 05:45 PM
I added Ar tonelico II: Melody of Metafalica.* Gust, NIS America, 1/20/09. (late but not too late)

The title was also added to the list 'regular cases with extra content.'

Since I'm still in Germany and can't look up the SLUS number of the game, can someone post the SLUS number?

Also: I can't look at my pre-ordered copy from Rosenqueen. Is the art book in the game separate from the instruction booklet or just an add-on to the the manual?

Press_Start
02-19-2009, 08:31 PM
Welcome back! Was wondering where the hell you've been? How Germany by the way? (Enjoying the chocolate and sausages over there? ;) )

The artbook is separate. The rundown for the items of the boxed include:
Music CD w/case
Artbook
Game Case
Manual
and the Ar Tonelico 2 game itself.

The Rosenqueen additional CD is separate from the rest.

SLUS #: 21788P

BTW, lots of stuff happened while you were. I've started a thread listing all RPG for the PSP, why dont you check it out?

lendelin
02-20-2009, 04:32 AM
Welcome back! Was wondering where the hell you've been? How Germany by the way? (Enjoying the chocolate and sausages over there? ;) )

The artbook is separate. The rundown for the items of the boxed include:
Music CD w/case
Artbook
Game Case
Manual
and the Ar Tonelico 2 game itself.

The Rosenqueen additional CD is separate from the rest.

SLUS #: 21788P

BTW, lots of stuff happened while you were. I've started a thread listing all RPG for the PSP, why dont you check it out?

Thanks for the information! I added the SLUS number and made a note that the CD came in a special slip cover in the game case (hope that this is correct??)

I noticed some time ago your RPG list for the PSP and added a link to it at the top of the first post. Great list! With the DS list from Daria we have it all covered now I think (well, except for the GC and the Xbox, maybe someone else will find some time to make a list for them as well, but the PS2 list was much more important because of the sheer number of exclusive titles)

I enjoy Germany very much, I think slowly my carb diet goes down the drain. :) I wanted to stay only for four weeks, but had to extend the stay for another two months because of a research project I'm involved in. But I'll check DP from now on regularly...only downside is that I can't make scans of new releases and add them to the pic sections, and I prolly miss out on some good deals.

BTW, were there any good deals because of the CC bankruptcy? I hope I didn't miss out on good deals.

carlcarlson
02-20-2009, 08:30 AM
BTW, were there any good deals because of the CC bankruptcy? I hope I didn't miss out on good deals.

Not yet. When the liquidators took over they raised all the prices and THEN started taking off %, so there haven't really been any steals. I did see a couple Fallout 3 lunchboxes that would have been about $27 but they were the Windows version, the consoles were gone. Those were the only "deals" I saw, all of the other good games would still be about $$30-$40.

lendelin
03-11-2009, 06:08 AM
Added to the list of upcoming releases:

Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha versus King Abadon. Atlus, Atlus, 5/12/09.

This is game number 8 of the SMT series, who would have thought that we would get so many games for SMT alone?

Since I'll be in Germany for another month and can't follow closely the game scene in the US, please make us aware of any news regarding releases of PS2 RPGs which might affect the lists.

When I'm back I'll make a scan of Ar tonelico 2 and add it to the pic list.

Press_Start
03-11-2009, 11:58 AM
Did a little checking. Besides Devil Summoner, there's Mana Khemia 2, Marvel: Ultimate Alliance 2, and possibly Sakura Wars but nothing etched in stone just yet.

BTW, did we cover a RPG list for the Wii yet?

lendelin
03-12-2009, 03:03 AM
Did a little checking. Besides Devil Summoner, there's Mana Khemia 2, Marvel: Ultimate Alliance 2, and possibly Sakura Wars but nothing etched in stone just yet.

BTW, did we cover a RPG list for the Wii yet?

Thanks! I added Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 to the list of upcoming releases.

There isn't a list of Wii RPGs. Although the list wouldn't be very long it would be nice to have a reliable list. Fell free to start one!! :)

Daria
03-14-2009, 03:49 PM
God damn there's a ton of RPGs on this system. I've eclipsed my PSone collection and still have 50 something left to go. :/

bcks007
05-01-2009, 06:16 AM
Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B001U7B4UW/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

wOOt :)

vincewy
05-30-2009, 01:46 PM
Just got AR Tonelico 2 (last copy on shelf), while there're many RPGs for PS2, I feel like this is one of those timeless classics you can keep and play for a long time. What other keepers do people recommend (those don't have to be in deluxe box sets, even GH versions are OK)? I have Mana Khamia, DQ VIII (I know it's common but it's timeless nonetheless). I'm thinking about getting both Growlancers. Please don't mention Final Fantasy series, those have become too mainstream.

Vkmies
05-30-2009, 01:56 PM
Im sorry, but I didnt have the patience to read all of the 21 pages so I'll ask my question and Im deeply sorry if the question has been anwsered already: Im not really into that japanese style of RPG's or ones with turn-based fighting. So, Could you tell me some PS2 RPG's that arent made to look and feel like anime and arent turn-based. Looking something that feels a little bit like "the elder scrolls"-series.

oremites
06-01-2009, 11:52 PM
Im not really into that japanese style of RPG's or ones with turn-based fighting. So, Could you tell me some PS2 RPG's that arent made to look and feel like anime and arent turn-based. Looking something that feels a little bit like "the elder scrolls"-series.
There aren't really many "elder scrolls"-like games for the PS2.
The one I enjoyed the most was King's Field: The Ancient City.
This one is dated, but I kind of liked it - Eternal Ring. Just don't expect too much.
Summoner 2 was pretty good.

If you like the Baldur's Gate action-RPG style, there are lots of these games: Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, Champions of Norrath 1 and 2, Bard's Tale, X-Men Legends 1 and 2, Marvel: Ultimate Alliance, Justice League Heroes

These games don't match what you're asking for, but if you haven't tried them, you should at least give them a shot:
Shadow Hearts or Shadow Hearts: Covenant
one of the Shin Megami Tensei games.
If you find you like them, there's a lot of great gaming with those series.

Daria
06-02-2009, 09:07 AM
Im sorry, but I didnt have the patience to read all of the 21 pages so I'll ask my question and Im deeply sorry if the question has been anwsered already: Im not really into that japanese style of RPG's or ones with turn-based fighting. So, Could you tell me some PS2 RPG's that arent made to look and feel like anime and arent turn-based. Looking something that feels a little bit like "the elder scrolls"-series.

Try wizardry. Although it's a Japanese game it "doesn't feel like anime". Actually it's one o those timeless games that Vincewy ought to pick up too,

Chainsaw_Charlie
06-02-2009, 09:44 AM
try the wild arms series, while turn based they do allow using items for puzzle solving and there's Growlanser Generations and Heritage of war

Vkmies
06-02-2009, 12:13 PM
Thanks for your suggestions. Kings Field IV looks great but i wasnt able to find a copy inside Finland. Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land looks really interesting, altough its turn-based, but , the stupid man i am, i couldnt find that one either. But i will certainlly keep the names of those 2 games on my mind, the next time i go shopping.

yok-dfa
06-03-2009, 09:08 AM
Thanks for your suggestions. Kings Field IV looks great but i wasnt able to find a copy inside Finland. Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land looks really interesting, altough its turn-based, but , the stupid man i am, i couldnt find that one either. But i will certainlly keep the names of those 2 games on my mind, the next time i go shopping.

Kings Field is being sold here: http://www.puolenkuunpelit.com/kauppa/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=7&products_id=2887 if you insist on buying it in Finland, however it comes at quite a steep price. I suggest you look at either huuto.net or ebay.co.uk to find a cheaper copy.

(Edit: here you go: http://www.huuto.net/fi/showitem.php3?itemid=106915543 )

Wizardry might be a bit trickier to find. I guess ebay would be your best shot...

Vkmies
06-03-2009, 03:54 PM
Kings Field is being sold here: http://www.puolenkuunpelit.com/kauppa/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=7&products_id=2887 if you insist on buying it in Finland, however it comes at quite a steep price. I suggest you look at either huuto.net or ebay.co.uk to find a cheaper copy.

(Edit: here you go: http://www.huuto.net/fi/showitem.php3?itemid=106915543 )

Wizardry might be a bit trickier to find. I guess ebay would be your best shot...

oh, thanks a lot! Its not that important to find it in finland, but it would be nice to avoid those annoying postal fees and stuff. Puolenkuun pelit has always been really expensive shop... -.-

bcks007
08-25-2009, 05:38 AM
lendelin, time for a update dude. :)

TonyTheTiger
08-26-2009, 06:18 PM
So I just got my copy of Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy from RosenQueen and something interesting to note. The Alchemic Art Collection might qualify as a separate SKU from the normal retail release.

Unlike the first Mana Khemia where the extra figure came in its own box wholly separate from the game ala a preorder bonus, what I have here is a large shrinkwrapped box about the height of a 3DO game but wider and thicker. It has the RosenQueen logo in the upper right hand corner and it's own box art. There's no UPC code anywhere but the back of the box details the contents like a normal collector's edition would. Inside is the standard retail package along with an artbook. I don't have the means to get a picture up at the moment but it's an especially nice package all in all.

EDIT:

Crappy cell phone picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/KI3/ManaKhemia2.jpg

Daria
08-26-2009, 07:09 PM
So I just got my copy of Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy from RosenQueen and something interesting to note. The Alchemic Art Collection might qualify as a separate SKU from the normal retail release.

Unlike the first Mana Khemia where the extra figure came in its own box wholly separate from the game ala a preorder bonus, what I have here is a large shrinkwrapped box about the height of a 3DO game but wider and thicker. It has the RosenQueen logo in the upper right hand corner and it's own box art. There's no UPC code anywhere but the back of the box details the contents like a normal collector's edition would. Inside is the standard retail package along with an artbook. I don't have the means to get a picture up at the moment but it's an especially nice package all in all.

EDIT:

Crappy cell phone picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/KI3/ManaKhemia2.jpg

Ooooh. I might have to order that online afterall.

TonyTheTiger
08-26-2009, 07:33 PM
Here's a crappy picture of the back of the box.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/KI3/ManaKhemia2back.jpg

I might order a second one to keep sealed. I'm guessing that the retail release will be inside and with its own shrinkwrap. This box is more or less just there to keep the game and the bonus artbook together. And since it doesn't have a UPC it clearly was never meant to be sold at retail. So what do you guys think? Is this a separate SKU?

Bojay1997
08-26-2009, 09:24 PM
Here's a crappy picture of the back of the box.

I might order a second one to keep sealed. I'm guessing that the retail release will be inside and with its own shrinkwrap. This box is more or less just there to keep the game and the bonus artbook together. And since it doesn't have a UPC it clearly was never meant to be sold at retail. So what do you guys think? Is this a separate SKU?

I would have to go with yes on this one. It's actually a US specific box and it was produced and sold by the US division of NIS, so for once I think Rosenqueen actually released a real collector's edition.

TonyTheTiger
08-26-2009, 09:53 PM
So...with 2,000 being sold and presumably no more being made...does that make this a "rare" game?

Bojay1997
08-26-2009, 09:57 PM
So...with 2,000 being sold and presumably no more being made...does that make this a "rare" game?

Well, they have to sell out of them first, but I would think that 2,000 units, even for an obscure JRPG could be considered rare. Still, a box and a flimsy art book is not interesting enough to convince me to spend the extra $26 it will cost to get this at Rosenqueen vs. Amazon, so I think I will just let others enjoy this "rarity".

TonyTheTiger
08-26-2009, 10:09 PM
Yeah, that's why I put rare in quotes. I've grown sick of the word since it appears to have lost most of its meaning. I do like the collection, though. If only because the box is unusually shaped for a PS2 collector's edition.

darkslime
08-26-2009, 10:53 PM
Ugh, why do the Mana Khemia 2 boxes have to come this week? I'm on vacation til Sunday, which means it will be sitting in front of my house in a high theft neighborhood all week.

TonyTheTiger
08-26-2009, 10:55 PM
Have any friends you can call to pick it up for you and hang on to it until you get home?

darkslime
08-26-2009, 11:17 PM
Have any friends you can call to pick it up for you and hang on to it until you get home?Yeah, true. I guess I'll do that.

esquire
11-24-2009, 07:07 PM
Added to the list of upcoming releases:

Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha versus King Abadon. Atlus, Atlus, 5/12/09.

This is game number 8 of the SMT series, who would have thought that we would get so many games for SMT alone?

Finally picked this up. Apparently Gamestop carries a "Raiho Special Edition" that comes with the game and a plush Raiho. It's $29.99.

lendelin
06-19-2015, 09:35 PM
Well, I'm back after a long time in Germany, and I will (promise! :) ) complete this list. I think there were only 5 games published in 2009 which are not listed yet. I'll look the specific data for the games up.

Ar tonelico II in a cardboard box
Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha versus King Abadon. (with a plushie, I think)
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance 2.
Mana Khemia II. (Limited Edition Set)
Sakura Wars. So Long My Love (also in a specific set, I think)

If you know about additional RPGs which were published, please let us know. Also if you know some interesting detail or data about these games which are helpful to complete the different listings.

lendelin
07-08-2015, 05:14 AM
Finally I could complete the list with the games of 2009 and 2010. With these games, the lists are complete. If you find errors or in case I overlooked a possible late release for the PS2, let us know.

Only one entry remains: The Doublejump book for Mana Khemia 2. But I'll wait until I have the book in my hands so the entry is accurate.



Here are the additions:

MAIN LIST

Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy. Gust, NIS America, 8/25/09.
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance 2. N-Space, Activision, 9/15/09.
Sakura Wars: So Long, My Love.* RED Entertainment/Idea Factory, NIS America, 3/31/10.
Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner 2.* Atlus, Atlus, 5/12/09.


2.A. CARDBOARD BOXES and DELUXE PACKAGES

Ar tonelico II: Melody of Metafalica. Comes in a cardboard box with the standard edition of the game, a soundtrack CD in a special plastic case with artwork in the back and front, and a softcover art book. Sold in standard and special edition. (SLUS 21788P)

Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy. The cardboard box contains the standard edition of the game, a soundtrack CD in a special plastic case with artwork in the back and front, and a dual-sided poster. Sold in standard edition, special edition and 'Rosenqueen Edition'. (SLUS 21890P)

Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy. 'Rosenqueen Edition.' This was an exclusive edition with its own packaging from the retailer Rosenqueen. The oversized cardboard box contains the special edition of the game (see above) and additionally a softcover art book. Sold in standard editiion, special edition and 'Rosenqueen Edition'. (SLUS 21890CE)

Sakura Wars: So Long, My Love. The cardboard box contains the standard edition of the game, an additional game-disc with Japanese voice-overs in the regular case, a softcover art book, and a poster. Noteworthy is the oversized and extensive manual which doesn't fit in the regular game case. Sold only in the special edition. (SLUS 21930)

Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner 2. Comes in a partially see-through box with the standard edition of the game and an 8 inch tall Raiho-plushie. Sold in standard and special edition. (SLUS 21845)


2.B. REGULAR CASES WITH EXTRA CONTENT

Marvel: Ultimate Alliance 2. Limited Edition. Sold in an edition with a comic book. Available in the edition with extra content and in standard edition. (SLUS 21879)


2.C. VARIANTS OF GAMES WITH EXTRA CONTENT

Marvel: Ultimate Alliance 2. Limited edition and standard edition, both in regular game cases. (SLUS 21879) Except for the front covers the two versions are identical. The limited edition says "Limited Edition. Comic Book Inside" on the front cover.


3.A. MULTI-PLATFORM

Marvel: Ultimate Alliance 2 (PlayStation 3, Wii, XBOX 360)
Sakura Wars: So Long, MyLove (Wii)

Niku-Sama
07-08-2015, 06:24 AM
Good to see you glad your back

lendelin
07-09-2015, 10:10 PM
I did the VERY last entry. To the list of the guides by DubleJump books I added:

07) Mana Khemia 2. Fall of Alchemy. 2009. Kitty and Tyler Endorf. [Redmond, WA]: DoubleJump Books. 179 Pages. Paperback: Book Format.

Daria
07-09-2015, 10:12 PM
*applauds*

lendelin
07-10-2015, 01:17 AM
*applauds*


*bows* ;)

SparTonberry
07-10-2015, 10:11 AM
Minor thing but release data of MMX Command Mission is wrong.
I have it on my list as 9/20/04, not 12/1. (a list I kept as I got games new since back in the day, I think I bought it as soon as it was released). Though GameFAQs lists the 21st.
Don't see any other dates of games I bought new that stand out as wrong.

lendelin
07-10-2015, 11:32 AM
Minor thing but release data of MMX Command Mission is wrong.
I have it on my list as 9/20/04, not 12/1. (a list I kept as I got games new since back in the day, I think I bought it as soon as it was released). Though GameFAQs lists the 21st.
Don't see any other dates of games I bought new that stand out as wrong.

Thanks so much! Great checking! To get a date wrong by 2 months is not a minor mistake and needs to be corrected. Back then I probably mixed the date up with a European release, or it was just a typo.

I changed the release date to 9/21/04.

I checked four sources, and they all listed the release date as 9/21. So I go with that. It can very well be that you bought the game a day earlier. Very often games were released a day or two before the official release or a couple of days after the official release.

lendelin
07-13-2015, 12:09 PM
I corrected the SLUS number for Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 with the little comic book. It has additionally 'WM' at the end. (SLUS 21879WM) I changed the entries in the lists accordingly.

Never encountered 'WM' in a slus number. The special editions have usually P or S. Does someone know what WM stands for?

Guntz
07-13-2015, 01:58 PM
Waste Management. ;)

Actually these days it means Watermelon to me. Now if they could just release a game for once.

lendelin
08-30-2015, 05:55 PM
I just discovered that in the list of the Greatest Hits there might be two games missing!

1) Kingdom Hearts RE: Chain of Memories
2) Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria

Can someone of you confirm that these titles actually were released as Greatest Hits? I looked around on other gaming websites and listings and Amazon, and indeed it seems that Kingdom Hearts was released as GH in 2009, I'm not sure though. Behind Valkyrie Profile 2 is also a big question mark.

If someone of you has these games as GH Versions or know for sure that they exist, please reply.

lendelin
08-31-2015, 07:52 PM
I checked and saw actual pictures of the two games which indeed got a GH release.

I added

- Kingdom Hearts RE: Chain of Memories and
- Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria

with their respective SLUS numbers to the Greatest Hits-list.

Holy cow! How could it happen that I overlooked that?

lendelin
11-16-2015, 07:01 PM
Does someone of you know if the special Edition of SMT: Devil Summoner 2 (with the Raiho plushie in see-through-packaging) was a Gamestop-exclusive?

Aussie2B
11-16-2015, 07:13 PM
I know I got mine at launch, and it definitely wasn't through GameStop. I think I just preordered it on Amazon?

lendelin
11-17-2015, 11:36 AM
I know I got mine at launch, and it definitely wasn't through GameStop. I think I just preordered it on Amazon?

Thanks! Otherwise I would have made a note in the listings. I vaguely remembered that someone said it was a Gamestop exclusive like the first Dot hack.

lendelin
11-18-2015, 10:22 AM
There were minor mistakes in the listing of the special editions. I changed the SLUS numbers for SMT: Digital Devil Summoner 2 and Sakura Wars. I also added for the 'Rosenqueen Edition' of Mana Khemia II that the packaging has no SLUS number.

Daria
11-18-2015, 05:58 PM
Does someone of you know if the special Edition of SMT: Devil Summoner 2 (with the Raiho plushie in see-through-packaging) was a Gamestop-exclusive?

I dunno. But I know the .Hack//GU Rebirth was not. I passed it up at either Best Buy or Comp-USA on clearance.

SparTonberry
11-19-2015, 11:43 AM
I'm sure I got the plushie bundle from amazon. But I forget now if it was amazon itself or a marketplace seller. And it was probably a while after release.

lendelin
11-19-2015, 08:19 PM
I dunno. But I know the .Hack//GU Rebirth was not. I passed it up at either Best Buy or Comp-USA on clearance.

This is a surprise! I was 100% CONVINCED that the edition was a Gamestop exlusive. I have to look into that very thoroughly. If you're right then I'll correct it, of course.

Thanks for the info, much appreciated!

lendelin
11-19-2015, 08:21 PM
I'm sure I got the plushie bundle from amazon. But I forget now if it was amazon itself or a marketplace seller. And it was probably a while after release.

Thanks for the info, I'm convinced in the meantime that this edition wasn't a Gamestop exclusive.

FieryReign
11-19-2015, 09:21 PM
A good chunk of these aren't rpgs. Some of them not even close. Might as well call GTA3 an rpg since you're "playing a role in a game". And CJ levels up his stats, and upgrades by either simply doing actions over and over again, or going to the gym.

Games with rpg elements are not rpgs and should not be labeled as such. Seperate genres.

Daria
11-20-2015, 12:13 AM
This is a surprise! I was 100% CONVINCED that the edition was a Gamestop exlusive. I have to look into that very thoroughly. If you're right then I'll correct it, of course.

Thanks for the info, much appreciated!

No problem. I remember because I'm still kicking myself for not buying it but my husband and I argued about spending the money at the time. :P

I'm sure it was Best Buy, but I say it might have been Comp-USA because they started selling video games towards the end and shared the same shopping center.

Daria
11-20-2015, 12:16 AM
A good chunk of these aren't rpgs. Some of them not even close. Might as well call GTA3 an rpg since you're "playing a role in a game". And CJ levels up his stats, and upgrades by either simply doing actions over and over again, or going to the gym.

Games with rpg elements are not rpgs and should not be labeled as such. Seperate genres.

Granted Gladius is a stretch, but what doesn't fit? There's a borderline category for a reason, but the actual RPG list is pretty spot on.

FieryReign
11-20-2015, 05:10 AM
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, Champions of Norrath, and any game like it are not rpgs. Kings Field is not an rpg. Kingdom Hearts games aren't rpgs, just advertising for Disney and Square. Odin Sphere, really? I could go on and on. Let's just call San Andreas an rpg.

Daria
11-20-2015, 08:53 AM
Lendelin: Oh! Check out Choro Q. It's a racing series with tiny toy cars, but set up like a traditional RPG. You drive around town, talking to NPC cars. Collect side missions, and race for money and level ups. It was published by ATLUS and they even advertise it as a "racing roleplaying adventure". I think it at least deserves a border-line inclusion. There was also a PS2 sequel released as Road Trip.


Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, Champions of Norrath, and any game like it are not rpgs. Kings Field is not an rpg. Kingdom Hearts games aren't rpgs, just advertising for Disney and Square. Odin Sphere, really? I could go on and on. Let's just call San Andreas an rpg.

Baldur's Gate and other Norrath engine games - Diablo clones. XP based level ups? Check. Equipment? Check. Side Quests? Check. Over-arching story quest? Check. Exploration? Check.

So what doesn't make Diablo an RPG exactly? In fact Diablo (and specifically the games you called out) are rogue-likes, RPGs characterized by their randomized dungeons and loot drops.

Kings Field - Precursor to the Dark Souls series for starters. A first person RPG in the vein of the Elder Scroll games. Again features stats, level ups, and exploration. You could also liken it to a real time Wizardry, or Might and Magic.

Kingdom Hearts - Riiiight.

Odin Sphere - Side Scrolling action RPG... you know what I'm just starting to think you don't know what an action RPG is.

FieryReign
11-20-2015, 09:47 AM
Rpg elements does not make a game a rpg. Baldurs Gates and the like aren't roguelikes. They're action rpgs where you actually control your character, instead of nonsense like point and clicking and fumbling through menus. There's no need for grinding, there's no running around towns trying to find the right person to talk to just to trigger the next boring story event.

You've obviously never played Kings Field or Odin Sphere.

This is just a copy paste of the other thread about somebody's personal collection. San Andreas and Castlevania is just as much a rpg if we're going by that nonsensical approach.

Daria
11-20-2015, 10:28 AM
Rpg elements does not make a game a rpg. Baldurs Gates and the like aren't roguelikes. They're action rpgs where you actually control your character, instead of nonsense like point and clicking and fumbling through menus. There's no need for grinding, there's no running around towns trying to find the right person to talk to just to trigger the next boring story event.

So like Kingdom Hearts they're not RPGs because you don't like them? Ok.

lendelin
11-20-2015, 05:25 PM
Rpg elements does not make a game a rpg. Baldurs Gates and the like aren't roguelikes. They're action rpgs where you actually control your character, instead of nonsense like point and clicking and fumbling through menus. There's no need for grinding, there's no running around towns trying to find the right person to talk to just to trigger the next boring story event.

You've obviously never played Kings Field or Odin Sphere.

This is just a copy paste of the other thread about somebody's personal collection. San Andreas and Castlevania is just as much a rpg if we're going by that nonsensical approach.

The discussion is all about an agreed upon definition of a RPG. With my experience I can tell you, it won't happen. And it isn't even necessary.

I give you two examples of much more important topics than videogames. In Political Science we still don't have an agreed upon definition of 'party'; and this after decades of discussions. From empirical minimal definitions to pages of long content definitions every definition has its flaws. Still, research about parties is done in every country.

We also don't have a good definition of 'nation' and ethnicity' and what distinguishes both. Still, scientists can live with it and doing good research.

Very interesting would be the Q what we understand about 'classic gaming,' this is not resolved and probably we would run in similar problems. (In German literature Goethe and Schiller discussed for years what should be understood about 'Classic' Lierature and couldn't agree, and the discussion about classic gaming is very similar).

I can only repeat what I wrote in another thread (which you know well) in 2008 about the definition of a RPG:


"The lack of consistency is intentional because there was no better alternative. If we could agree on a definition with standards for a RPG we would certainly achieve consistency. Basically I sacrificed consistency on the altar of inclusion of borderline cases.

The reasons are twofold.

First, it would take a long time to agree on a definition, and once agreed we’d have problems with newly released games which stretch the genre again and change the need for a definition. (Deus Ex, Mass Effect) The time factor shouldn’t be underestimated; so far we still don’t have a useable and generally agreed definition after years of discussion.

Second, no matter how we define a RPG, no matter if we choose a minimal definition or an extensive content definition, we’ll always end up with questionable cases. We’ll always end up with games we want to include but fall outside of the definition, and vice versa.

Let’s say we define a RPG as a game which has to fulfill all of the following essential technical gameplay standards, ( which were proposed and discussed already years ago and I remember off the hat because I proposed and discussed some of them):

1) Some kind of statistics which define and describe certain attributes or skills of game characters.
2) The famous leveling-up, that means some kind of method to influence (increase) these statistics for characters.
3) There must be a menu for combat, just broadly a menu-driven combat system.

There are other standards proposed which may or may not be included as necessary conditions such as complex storylines, the latter is very weak one and shouldn’t be included imo.

You’ll always end up with cases which will raise eyebrows. Secret of Mana out, Alundra out, Popful Mail out. They fulfill two standards, but not a third one. Then you’ll always end up with cases which fulfill 1) and 2), but are just halfway there in the third standard category. Then you’ll end up with maybes like Disgaea and FF Tactics (Menu driven combat - yes, but still grid placement influences the battle; is it just a strategy game or a RPG?))

The point is, you’ll gain more consistency without any doubt when you have clearly defined standards.

But even with stricter standards there are always cases in which the feeling takes over – just enough gameplay elements for a category, or they fall just short to fulfill a category.

You’ll always end up with certain gameplay elements of another genre (see the above FF Tactics with strategy elements, replaceable with action elements and elements from many other genres). That’s why we have the genre combinations action/RPG, strategy RGP, and so many others.

In the last ten years we have the development tendency towards the hybrid game. I like it. Even in sports games we have now elements of statistical skill attributes which were once used only in RPGs. The result are the above mentioned genre benders which makes it even more difficult to agree on clearly defined RPG standards. It is more a matter of “feeling” even in the case of applied RPG-standards if certain RPG elements are essential gameplay elements or just used to color a game with or give it a mood of a RPG. In some posts of the original thread I discussed some of those cases.

The very simple reason I avoided a RPG definition for the list (AND my collection) is its recommendation character. It was designed to be as inclusionary as possible and not as the ‘ultimate’ RPG list. In the end everyone can add or remove titles for his personal list. However, I admit that the term "complete" is misleading because ther is no such thing.

The titles you address are indeed questionable for a strict RPG list, and there is an unavoidable lack of consistency. Facing big hurdles of defining standards, another option is simply to put ten or more of these titles in the borderline category. (Nine of them are currently in there) But then we’ll loose again the leeway recommendation character of the list."


Tell you what: if you can come up with a definition of a RPG we can all agree upon, I change my list and the pics of my collection! :)

Daria started a thread back then about the Q what an RPG is. You are more than welcome to contribute to the discussion. Here is the link:

http://forum.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?113452-What-s-an-RPG-(Long-article-illiterates-need-not-apply (http://forum.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?113452-What-s-an-RPG-(Long-article-illiterates-need-not-apply)


Maybe we can clear up the Q this way.

lendelin
11-20-2015, 05:44 PM
Lendelin: Oh! Check out Choro Q. It's a racing series with tiny toy cars, but set up like a traditional RPG. You drive around town, talking to NPC cars. Collect side missions, and race for money and level ups. It was published by ATLUS and they even advertise it as a "racing roleplaying adventure". I think it at least deserves a border-line inclusion. There was also a PS2 sequel released as Road Trip.



Look what I found: a ten year old upload-picture to Digitalpress. :) Back then I asked about games of the Gadget Racer series which I found very interesting to play and collect. I got them all for the PS2 and GC and still haven't played them. :)


http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/ChoroqXUPLOAD.jpg (http://s166.photobucket.com/user/lendelin/media/ChoroqXUPLOAD.jpg.html)


Thanks so much for reminding me of ChoroQ! I remembered that I thought years ago of playing the game for the reasons you listed. I completely forgot about it. A car RPG by Atlus, that sounds interesting. ChoroQ is a candidate for sure for the borderline category, maybe even for the main list, let's see. Have you played them? What's your impression?

This is a great opportunity to try the games out. I will also look into Roadtrip, which got a release for the Gamecube as well. Both games are still sitting sealed on my shelves, silly me.

Daria
11-20-2015, 07:13 PM
Look what I found: a ten year old upload-picture to Digitalpress. :) Back then I asked about games of the Gadget Racer series which I found very interesting to play and collect. I got them all for the PS2 and GC and still haven't played them. :)


http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/lendelin/ChoroqXUPLOAD.jpg (http://s166.photobucket.com/user/lendelin/media/ChoroqXUPLOAD.jpg.html)


Thanks so much for reminding me of ChoroQ! I remembered that I thought years ago of playing the game for the reasons you listed. I completely forgot about it. A car RPG by Atlus, that sounds interesting. ChoroQ is a candidate for sure for the borderline category, maybe even for the main list, let's see. Have you played them? What's your impression?

This is a great opportunity to try the games out. I will also look into Roadtrip, which got a release for the Gamecube as well. Both games are still sitting sealed on my shelves, silly me.

I bought ChoroQ, haven't tried any of the others but my initial impression was basically: "Yup... that's an RPG". As much as Final Lap Twin is an RPG, or Mario Golf is an RPG. I mean they're obviously not traditional RPGs, it's a glorified racing game with RPG elements but I like the novelty of genre hybrid games.

lendelin
02-06-2016, 09:08 PM
I bought ChoroQ, haven't tried any of the others but my initial impression was basically: "Yup... that's an RPG". As much as Final Lap Twin is an RPG, or Mario Golf is an RPG. I mean they're obviously not traditional RPGs, it's a glorified racing game with RPG elements but I like the novelty of genre hybrid games.

Finally I played ChoroQ. I say 'finally' because in January I finally overcame my laziness, painted the hallway and my gameroom, reorganized the room with a new HDTV and furniture, and besides trying out a lot of new stuff it is the perfect environment to play games, and play, and play...and sometimes I sit there in the midst of 1700 games and don't know which one I should play. It is a sad and wonderful story, but another story... :)

I'm halfway through ChoroQ (developed by Takara, published in the US by Atlus). And this says a lot, because I'm also playing finally God of War III and Rayman Legends, and despite this heavy competition I'm still sliding this cd in my PS2 or PS3.

The game surprised me. Not only the overall quality, but also certain game elements and gameplay encounters, and this is what a game should do to a gamer. It should surprise him. I found myself suddenly driving in water and loosing the race, or on a wonderful futuristic race track, and for every situation there are upgrade solutions like a boat engine. There are lots of surprising game elements in this racer.

The controls and physics engine are also well done, there are flaws like the turning, but it is after all a penny racer which shouldn't give you a sense of speed and Gran Turismo-physics, instead a lot of charme and atmosphere.

I couldn't disagree more with the final statement of Ralph Edwards from a IGN-review about this game: "What other way is there to put it? If you want to know what a box of suck looks like sitting on your shelf, buy Choroq."

I think he expected more in all review compartments ignoring the fact that this game does what it sets out to achieve. It doesn't want to be a Gran Turismo, a God of War, and neither a Final Fantasy when it comes to graphics, physics engine, and storyline. But then, some reviewers criticised after ist release 'Castlevania Symphony of the Night' for not being a 3D-game.

Daria, I'm with you because this game is a wonderful niche title, a genre hybrid game, worthwhile playing because it is what unfortunately in the last 10 years is more and more getting lost -- it is a playful, innocent, charming and childlike game, something which sparked the game industry in the first place.

Is it a RPG? It certainly tries very hard and emphasizes RPG elements (upgrading, rewards of experience, missions, storytelling) and therefore it achieves to generate a RPG atmosphere. It actually gives objects like cars a personality and character, and the tracks are very well designed and have distinguished characteristics as well.

I put it in the borderline category. It is actually ideal for this category. Thanks for mentioning it! I'll look at Roadtrip for the PS2 as well.

Added:
ChoroQ.* Takara, Atlus, 11/4/04.

lendelin
02-08-2016, 02:10 PM
I looked at and played Roadtrip. It belongs in the borderline category as well. It is a prequel to ChoroQ, and plays very similar with the same gameplay elements. Open world, missions, talking to other cars, storyline, in short: the same quirky, light-hearted and charming genre hybrid between racing and RPG.

Added to the borderline category:
Everywhere Road Trip.* E-game/Takara, Conspiracy Entertainment, 10/26/2002.

I read that usually Takara is credited with the development of the series, but the developers are actually outside developers cooperating with Takara. In case of Road Trip that is E-game, and for ChoroQ I changed the entry and added as a developer Tamsoft.

These two games are not hidden gems, they are by no means perfect but they are worthwhile playing because the concept and execution is just downright playful, charming and very well done!

lendelin
04-05-2016, 10:14 PM
For the sake of completion I added the following to the list of special editions:


16) Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 FES. Same special edition with identical content as for the regular Persona 3 above (see 15). Just the games themselves are different with different SLUS numbers whereas the cardboard box with the old SLUS number was used. Sold also as a stand-alone game. (SLUS 21569P)


I bought this years ago after Persona 3 FES was released and was surprised that just the games were exchanged and everything else was the same as for Persona 3 (hardcover art book, soundtrack CD, and the cardboard box with the same SLUS number).

Back then we suspected (top of page 19 of this thread) that it was sold this way only on Amazon for a short period of time. It does have a different back cover at first sight, but this is only an insert on top of the backcover under the shrinkwrap.

Not a big thing but it had to be noted that Persona 3 FES could be bought in a special edition like the regular Persona 3.

lendelin
07-28-2017, 07:17 PM
No problem. I remember because I'm still kicking myself for not buying it but my husband and I argued about spending the money at the time. :P

I'm sure it was Best Buy, but I say it might have been Comp-USA because they started selling video games towards the end and shared the same shopping center.

You were indeed right. I was convinced that the special edition of .hack GU/ vol. 1 Rebirth with the Haseo figurine was a Gamestop exclusive edition, but it was not. A couple of weeks ago a guy told me that he bought it at Best Buy AND he had the receipt from Best Buy still in there!

Probably I had the impression that it was a Gamestop exclusive because someone told me back then that it was and I got three of them in a Gamestop store after looking for it for two years.

I corrected the entry in the special edition section. Might be the last correction for the lists. :)

Big Papa Husker
07-28-2018, 09:17 AM
Am I missing the link? I don't see anything in the first post.

kupomogli
07-28-2018, 12:19 PM
I think when you're banned you're able to edit any of your posts, you just can't create new posts. I'm assuming it was a requested ban, but regardless, the creator edited and deleted the posts with any information.