Is this considered illegal?

[Red Hedgehog]

I'll simply say this:
[Long, ridiculous argument snipped]
:)

Circular logic at it's finest. There is so much wrong with your pattern of thought I don't know where to begin. In fact, it's so completely disconnected from any form of rationale that it would be an excercise in futility to counter-point your post.

Stay in school kids... for the love of god and country please stay in school. Even if you have to take the short bus... OK?

#1 problem facing humanity today... the shortage of people capable of critical thinking.

**GONG**

Thanks. I was going to write a response, but this is far better than anything I would have said.

[Snout]

It surprises me how retarded some people can be...jajaja I hope it's only the english language that is not letting you comprehend the facts from the fiction. Sadly, from all your posts it seems you have plenty of control over the language and it appears that you must be stuck with an IQ of 40. I'm not even going to waste more time on getting involved in this thread just wanted to say that I joined this board JUST for you jajaja. It irritated me so much reading your posts trying to argue against people that had valid points yet you continue to argue and blame them for being incorrect. You should have a closer look at your posts and maybe have a person that you trust with an IQ higher than yourself explain to you why you are missing the point. Have a good life.

[jajaja]

This discussion is still going? Hehe wierd.

Snout: Awww, thanks ;) Im very flattered that you join the board just for me. Isnt that sweet all?
Im not english if thats what you wonder. 40 in IQ? What are you talking about. You must have a IQ of 60 to open a door and yes, I can open a door. So since you didnt know this I guess your IQ is lower than 40.
Apparently you didnt read the whole thread so I have no idea what point you where trying to make. I mean, joining a board just to post a totaly useless and pointless comment, very wierd.. :hmm: I agreed with something and disagreed with something, you have a problem with that? Tip, read all before you make a fool out of yourself, again.
Unless you can contribute something to this discussion without posting useless "attempts" to diss me you can just keep quiet. Pathetic "attempt" of dissing me btw, got a good laugh tho hehe ;) Better luck next time.

[cyberfluxor]

I'll simply say this:
Should it be illegal for Resale shops to sell used titles from older and newer systems? Because last time I remember, they don't give credit to the author for selling a used game.

About 95%+ of my games were bought used so should I be arrested or put to shame for not contributing to a bunch companies for their works through sales? And what makes a difference if I downloaded ROMs instead of buying 2nd hand?... It keeps places like GameStop, EBgames, and pawn shop/used game stores open, not the publishers.

So basically, where I stand is unless companies get royalties on shops reselling used games, then those shops are just as bad as pirates except they are selling the real deal. Downloading a ROM more or so likely hurts those resale shops because cheapskates won't buy a high costing new title.

BTW, for reference, yes I do have tens of thousands of ROMs, which I don't play rather they are archives. I save them for if someone wants me to review a game, screenshots/sound bytes are needed, or other misc things. Otherwise I buy the games if they are a good deal to me :)

Circular logic at it's finest. There is so much wrong with your pattern of thought I don't know where to begin. In fact, it's so completely disconnected from any form of rationale that it would be an excercise in futility to counter-point your post.

Stay in school kids... for the love of god and country please stay in school. Even if you have to take the short bus... OK?

#1 problem facing humanity today... the shortage of people capable of critical thinking.

**GONG**

Apparently you didn't get the point of my post. Everyone blames that piracy and ROMs kill the companies that produce it. I'm not saying "[blah blah] resale shops kill product corporations [blah blah]". I'm more so stating there are multitudes of issues and variables that mess everything up than simply downloading.

And no, I don't ride on a short bus, and I'm quite capable of critical thinking. I may not be the best in the language department or have a high vocabulary intellect, but I try to add more edges to the discussion.

[evildead2099]

I'll simply say this:
Should it be illegal for Resale shops to sell used titles from older and newer systems? Because last time I remember, they don't give credit to the author for selling a used game.

About 95%+ of my games were bought used so should I be arrested or put to shame for not contributing to a bunch companies for their works through sales? And what makes a difference if I downloaded ROMs instead of buying 2nd hand?... It keeps places like GameStop, EBgames, and pawn shop/used game stores open, not the publishers.

So basically, where I stand is unless companies get royalties on shops reselling used games, then those shops are just as bad as pirates except they are selling the real deal. Downloading a ROM more or so likely hurts those resale shops because cheapskates won't buy a high costing new title.

BTW, for reference, yes I do have tens of thousands of ROMs, which I don't play rather they are archives. I save them for if someone wants me to review a game, screenshots/sound bytes are needed, or other misc things. Otherwise I buy the games if they are a good deal to me :)

Circular logic at it's finest. There is so much wrong with your pattern of thought I don't know where to begin. In fact, it's so completely disconnected from any form of rationale that it would be an excercise in futility to counter-point your post.

Stay in school kids... for the love of god and country please stay in school. Even if you have to take the short bus... OK?

#1 problem facing humanity today... the shortage of people capable of critical thinking.

**GONG**

<sarcasm>Nice counter-argument</sarcasm>

As lofty, condescending, and arrogant as your post was, it has no actual substance or validity behind it. Whereas cyberfluxor gave detailed, specific reasons to defend his opinion, you have done just the opposite. It's rather hypocritical of you cite a shortage of people capable of critical thinking as the "#1 problem facing humanity today" when your entire post was devoid of just that. If you're going to dispute someone, try actually using logic rather than resorting to demeaning ad hominem attacks.

I don't necessarily agree with cyberfluxor, but he makes some goods points and, unlike you, actually bothered to defend his opinion. If anyone ought to heed your advice, Acidic_Pain, it is you.

[cyberfluxor]

Randomly off the point, evildead2099 makes some good posts. :)
Not as a "defense", but in general on all the posts I've read of yours.

[Eternal Champion]

I agree with evildead

[Red Hedgehog]

I'll simply say this:
Should it be illegal for Resale shops to sell used titles from older and newer systems? Because last time I remember, they don't give credit to the author for selling a used game.

About 95%+ of my games were bought used so should I be arrested or put to shame for not contributing to a bunch companies for their works through sales? And what makes a difference if I downloaded ROMs instead of buying 2nd hand?... It keeps places like GameStop, EBgames, and pawn shop/used game stores open, not the publishers.

So basically, where I stand is unless companies get royalties on shops reselling used games, then those shops are just as bad as pirates except they are selling the real deal. Downloading a ROM more or so likely hurts those resale shops because cheapskates won't buy a high costing new title.

BTW, for reference, yes I do have tens of thousands of ROMs, which I don't play rather they are archives. I save them for if someone wants me to review a game, screenshots/sound bytes are needed, or other misc things. Otherwise I buy the games if they are a good deal to me :)

Since it seems some people can't immediately see the flaw in this argument, I present a thought exercise:

1) A friend reads a book, finishes it, and gives it to you.

2) You take a book from a bookstore without paying for it.

In both cases, the book publisher made no money when you obtained the book. Is there then, effectively, no difference in both methods of obtaining a book?

For extra credit: If I think the book is overpriced or I just don't have the money to buy it, does that change anything about the nature of the second option?

[Snout]

This discussion is still going? Hehe wierd.

Snout: Awww, thanks ;) Im very flattered that you join the board just for me. Isnt that sweet all?
Im not english if thats what you wonder. 40 in IQ? What are you talking about. You must have a IQ of 60 to open a door and yes, I can open a door. So since you didnt know this I guess your IQ is lower than 40.
Apparently you didnt read the whole thread so I have no idea what point you where trying to make. I mean, joining a board just to post a totaly useless and pointless comment, very wierd.. :hmm: I agreed with something and disagreed with something, you have a problem with that? Tip, read all before you make a fool out of yourself, again.
Unless you can contribute something to this discussion without posting useless "attempts" to diss me you can just keep quiet. Pathetic "attempt" of dissing me btw, got a good laugh tho hehe ;) Better luck next time.

It's funny how you spent 4 hours editing your reply, couldn't get it right the first time could you? LOL Well have fun in your life, I'm sure it'll be a short one...Ignorance really is bliss for you..go spend the rest of your life figuring that one out.

[cyberfluxor]

I'll simply say this:
Should it be illegal for Resale shops to sell used titles from older and newer systems? Because last time I remember, they don't give credit to the author for selling a used game.

About 95%+ of my games were bought used so should I be arrested or put to shame for not contributing to a bunch companies for their works through sales? And what makes a difference if I downloaded ROMs instead of buying 2nd hand?... It keeps places like GameStop, EBgames, and pawn shop/used game stores open, not the publishers.

So basically, where I stand is unless companies get royalties on shops reselling used games, then those shops are just as bad as pirates except they are selling the real deal. Downloading a ROM more or so likely hurts those resale shops because cheapskates won't buy a high costing new title.

BTW, for reference, yes I do have tens of thousands of ROMs, which I don't play rather they are archives. I save them for if someone wants me to review a game, screenshots/sound bytes are needed, or other misc things. Otherwise I buy the games if they are a good deal to me :)

Since it seems some people can't immediately see the flaw in this argument, I present a thought exercise:

1) A friend reads a book, finishes it, and gives it to you.

2) You take a book from a bookstore without paying for it.

In both cases, the book publisher made no money when you obtained the book. Is there then, effectively, no difference in both methods of obtaining a book?

For extra credit: If I think the book is overpriced or I just don't have the money to buy it, does that change anything about the nature of the second option?

1) This is a gift, not a sale. No money is involved.
2) This is direct theft, compaired to indirect on-line piracy (Still illegal).
Extra Credit: No, it doesn't.

There is a difference to some degree. Money.

I didn't have to think about my response because you only replaced book with game and added a "gift" option. Now, books are to some extent another story on the on-line piracy if you've been watching the google book archive case.
And don't try to kill me in logic, you won't win. :)

[jajaja]

This discussion is still going? Hehe wierd.

Snout: Awww, thanks ;) Im very flattered that you join the board just for me. Isnt that sweet all?
Im not english if thats what you wonder. 40 in IQ? What are you talking about. You must have a IQ of 60 to open a door and yes, I can open a door. So since you didnt know this I guess your IQ is lower than 40.
Apparently you didnt read the whole thread so I have no idea what point you where trying to make. I mean, joining a board just to post a totaly useless and pointless comment, very wierd.. :hmm: I agreed with something and disagreed with something, you have a problem with that? Tip, read all before you make a fool out of yourself, again.
Unless you can contribute something to this discussion without posting useless "attempts" to diss me you can just keep quiet. Pathetic "attempt" of dissing me btw, got a good laugh tho hehe ;) Better luck next time.

It's funny how you spent 4 hours editing your reply, couldn't get it right the first time could you? LOL Well have fun in your life, I'm sure it'll be a short one...Ignorance really is bliss for you..go spend the rest of your life figuring that one out.

I didnt use 4 hours. I just decided to remove some stuff that might have been alittle to strong for a youngster like you :) You should be careful what you say, you might end up dead and get a short life yourself. Again, your "insults" are phatetic. Wont even call them insults thats why I use ", so weak hehe. And yet, you didnt answer what point you were trying to make. So again, if you dont have anything real to contribute to this discussion except threadcrapping please be quiet.
Anything more on your heart dear? Send me a PM if there something you want to say.

[evildead2099]

This thread has gotten ugly. Not to single out anyone in particular (other than he whom I addressed in a previous post), but some of you people have no sense of shame with respect to the tactics you adopt to 'win' an argument. Save that stuff for the forums at GameFAQs and Gamestop.

Learn some tact and cease your pretentious attempts to intimidate anyone who dares to disagree with your opinion.

Maybe its time for a mod to lock this forum...

[jajaja]

The thread did start ugly (me, goatdan and kevin_psx was fighting), but then it went back to normal and a serious discussion. I havnt followed the last part of the discussion, just saw that snout came with a crazy, meaningless comment and started ripping shit up again. For what? I just had my opinions and obviously he didnt agree with them. Thats fine of course, but starting with the shitthrowing? Whats the deal with that?
I could just have ignored him tho. Wonder why I even spent time to comment on a stupid post from him.


Maybe its time for a mod to lock this forum...

Agree.

[Red Hedgehog]

1) This is a gift, not a sale. No money is involved.
2) This is direct theft, compaired to indirect on-line piracy (Still illegal).
Extra Credit: No, it doesn't.

There is a difference to some degree. Money.

What is the money difference? Is it important that, in one case, someone was trying to get money for the item while in the other case, someone wasn't?

Obviously, you don't think that it should be illegal to sell used games. Most sane people would agree with that. That's why copyright law since time immemorial has had a "first sale" clause - once a copyrighted work has been sold, it can be sold again or given away (even in a modified form)*. The main point I was trying to make is that, in the case of making a copy of software you don't own, there is no first sale. You are creating a brand new copy of a work, that hasn't gone through a sale process intended by the copyright holder. This is the big difference between buying a game used and downloading a copy of it.

Look, I obviously care about this because I make my living writing software and if everyone had your view, I wouldn't make any money. In the case of old software that is no longer being supported by the copyright holder (called, colloquially, abandonware), I don't really have a problem with those who download because they can't find it. That said, I still think it is better to buy it from a store if possible because those shops provide a valuable service.


And don't try to kill me in logic, you won't win. :)

I promise, I wasn't trying to kill you with anything!


*There are companies (and lawyers) out there who are attempting to remove this right (passing on legally obtained copyrighted material, whether modified or not). They attempt to do this with various licenses, and it is unclear whether they are on any legal ground to do this. I think they are being idiots.

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again. Let's call it a day on this one, shall we?

http://www.thelogbook.com/wishlist/robots4.gif

Oh, and one more thought to ponder, from very early in the thread:


Any conversation that sparks a debate on this matter will ultimately tell more about the person than anything else.