PS2/Xbox 1/GC games that could have been done on DC?

[sabre2922]

What AAA or succesful -critical or sales- Playstation 2/Xbox 1/Gamecube games could or not have been on Segas Dreamcast with out a Large drop in gaphical quality or gameplay?

I think there are many that would have actually been better and many that simply could not have been ported or made for the DC.

First GTA: Grand Theft Auto 3/Vice city -PS2 Xbox- could have been developed for the Dreamcast and most likely had larger areas than the PS2 version with the DCs 8MB Ram compared to the PS2s 4 MB but the graphics would have not been as detailed since the PS2 has a nack for a decent amount of textures.

Splinter Cell: couldnt have been done on Dreamcast IMO.

Max Payne: since there was a more than half finished version being made for the DC and are many pix on the net for the original MP port I think it would have turned out very well and both looked (the pixs look good) and played fine on the Dreamcast.

Devil May Cry-PS2- could not have been ported to the DC used much of what the PS2 does best Texturing and particle effects I think just beyond what the Dreamcast could have done even if pushed to the max.

Madden-PS2 Xbox 1 GC- would have looked nice and smooth on the DC but after say 2003 would have showed the systems age with the graphics not being able to keep up with the newer systems.

Soul Calibur 2- would have been BETTER on the Dreamcast by far 8-)

Ico-PS2- Could not have been ported to the DC successfully IMO.

Halo-NO

Panzer Dragoon Orta- Maybe, after all it would be Sega making the game for THEIR machine.

Metal Gear Solid 2-NO hell even the Xbox port chugged along at times it was perfect on the PS2.

[ubersaurus]

Gradius V, R-Type Final, Alien Hominid, pretty much any 2d shooter would have been fine on the Dreamcast.

This would also probably extend to all existing fighting games, as well.

The real problem is the dreamcast's lack of second analog stick. Just about any game could have been ported onto there, but without that second stick, how would you play it?

[sabre2922]

Gradius V, R-Type Final, Alien Hominid, pretty much any 2d shooter would have been fine on the Dreamcast.

This would also probably extend to all existing fighting games, as well.

The real problem is the dreamcast's lack of second analog stick. Just about any game could have been ported onto there, but without that second stick, how would you play it?

Agreed its a given that any 2-D current gen game would have been just as good or better on the DC.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Honestly, I've seen very few games on the current consoles that could not be done on the DC. Most of the games that would take a big hit in quality IMO are the games designed specificly for the Xbox, but seriously, how many games on the Xbox were multi-platform ports designed for the least common denominator? Nearly all of the PS2 library, I belive, could have been done on the DC. One problem the DC has on the control side is that it only offers a single analog stick. I see that as the biggest problem rather than technical/system power. Just one man's opinion based solely upon personal observations.

Remember people graphics is not the same as gameplay. :P

[sabre2922]

Honestly, I've seen very few games on the current consoles that could not be done on the DC. Most of the games that would take a big hit in quality IMO are the games designed specificly for the Xbox, but seriously, how many games on the Xbox were multi-platform ports designed for the least common denominator? Nearly all of the PS2 library, I belive, could have been done on the DC. One problem the DC has on the control side is that it only offers a single analog stick. I see that as the biggest problem rather than technical/system power. Just one man's opinion based solely upon personal observations.

Remember people graphics is not the same as gameplay. :P

Thats fine and all but I happen to think there are many games that couldnt have been done on the DC also.

Another thing in all respect why do some ppl on here and other boards refer to the PS2 as "the lowest common denominator" IMO thats condescending as hell and makes me think that some are just pissed since the PS2 outsold both the Xbox and Gamecube COMBINED and basically wiped the floor with them in this gen race.

Now as far as the PS2 goes after all the great games on ALL the platforms how can any gamer that doesnt call himself/herself a fanboy try to down the PS2 with all the incredible playing and incredible LOOKING games that it has to offer man thats just :deadhorse: and has been proven wrong time and time again with games like GT4 , Tekken 5, the excellent port of RE4 - point made ;)

[goatdan]

First GTA: Grand Theft Auto 3/Vice city -PS2 Xbox- could have been developed for the Dreamcast and most likely had larger areas than the PS2 version with the DCs 8MB Ram compared to the PS2s 4 MB but the graphics would have not been as detailed since the PS2 has a nack for a decent amount of textures.

Believe it or not, originally GTA3 was being developed as a Dreamcast exclusive, but development stalled and was shifted to the PS2. According to R* publicly, this was because the Dreamcast couldn't handle the game. According to what I've learned, it was more because of politics and piracy that it got moved than anything hardware related.

From Game Informer in 2001 (don't know which issue): "GTA3 was originally planned for the Dreamcast but the DC hardware couldn't handle it so it was moved to the PS2."

And I really do feel that almost anything done on the PS2 could've been done on the Dreamcast, if not everything. Toward the end, the Dreamcast got some amazing games. Headhunter on the Dreamcast is graphically superior to the PS2 version, for instance. Their power is relatively similar... and if it wasn't quite up to snuff, you could've snipped little parts to make it work.

Exclusives to the GameCube and Xbox are more up in the air, as those are both more powerful systems.

[sabre2922]

First GTA: Grand Theft Auto 3/Vice city -PS2 Xbox- could have been developed for the Dreamcast and most likely had larger areas than the PS2 version with the DCs 8MB Ram compared to the PS2s 4 MB but the graphics would have not been as detailed since the PS2 has a nack for a decent amount of textures.

Believe it or not, originally GTA3 was being developed as a Dreamcast exclusive, but development stalled and was shifted to the PS2. According to R* publicly, this was because the Dreamcast couldn't handle the game. According to what I've learned, it was more because of politics and piracy that it got moved than anything hardware related.

From Game Informer in 2001 (don't know which issue): "GTA3 was originally planned for the Dreamcast but the DC hardware couldn't handle it so it was moved to the PS2."


I have no doubt that GTA 3 could have been done on the DC.

But cmon guys Metal Gear Solid 2 or GT3? no way! as much as I luv the Dreamcast I just dont think that could have been achieved on it.

[goatdan]

But cmon guys Metal Gear Solid 2 or...

Have you played Headhunter?

It was supposed to be the Metal Gear Solid "killer" (which is always a stupid title for a game... one good game does not make another good game bad. But I digress...)

Headhunter was released and promoted heavily in Europe, where it was very popular. The game has so far found release in the US on just the PS2 courtesy of Acclaim, who as Acclaim often did decided not to promote it in any way.

It is a third person action / adventure stealth style game. Two pictures borrowed a site called Jeuxvideo:

http://image.jeuxvideo.com/images/dc/h/e/hehudc002.jpg

http://image.jeuxvideo.com/images/dc/h/e/hehudc004.jpg

The game in action is just as pretty as the screenshots. Compare that to Metal Gear Solid 2 Playstation 2:

http://www.ntsc-uk.com/reviews/ps2/MetalGearSolid2Sub/02.jpg

http://www.ntsc-uk.com/reviews/ps2/MetalGearSolid2Sub/03.jpg

(borrowed from NTSC-UK.com)

...and you can see that the two games look similar in graphics. I know that there are a few things that the Dreamcast couldn't have rendered quite as well, but that's where you strip those out and, for the most part, no one even notices.

Could Metal Gear Solid 2 have been done for the Dreamcast? Yes.

[sabre2922]

Good point Dan ..but I still have my doubts and yeah ive played Headhunter on my DC a few years back and its a good game.

Thats why I asked "could or not have been on Segas Dreamcast with out a Large drop in gaphical quality " and I think that would pertain to MGS2, meaning there would be to much of a drop in graphical quality not the minor drop like in GC to PS2 RE4 and as others have pointed out there is the double anolog issue wich I will at least admit could be overcome on most games if they were hypothetically ported to the DC.

[KingCobra]

Umm.. I think, not only could DC hang with the PS2, but let's not forget that the DC does native VGA output through VGA box. In this day and age of large LCD's and DLP with vga jacks, now I don't know about Polygon pushing power, but as far as texture and sharpness goes? I think the DC kicks the PS2 square-in-nuts. :D

[sabre2922]

Umm.. I think, not only could DC hang with the PS2, but let's not forget that the DC does native VGA output through VGA box. In this day and age of large LCD's and DLP with vga jacks, now I don't know about Polygon pushing power, but as far as texture and sharpness goes? I think the DC kicks the PS2 square-in-nuts. :D

The games always looked naturally smoooooth on DC 8-)

[Icarus Moonsight]

I call the PS2 the lowest common denominator because it is... no personal slant... oldest system of the three current consoles. Came out not long after the DC. They are pretty close in power to each other. If the DC games were to have kept on coming out right along side PS2, I don't think you could dispute this so readily. I'm just saying that the games would look fairly simular... touchy touchy people. x_x

Edit: Thanks for backing me up on this one Dan :)

Frankly, it's getting a little annoying being called a fanboy... while typing posts it seems that I always rephrase something or defuse a possible situation with a IMO or such... so here ya go you flame eating trolls; kiss this :ass: and have a pair of these to go :fist:

Remember boys and girls to... eat it everyday! :-P

[sabre2922]

I call the PS2 the lowest common denominator because it is... no personal slant... oldest system of the three current consoles. Came out not long after the DC. They are pretty close in power to each other. If the DC games were to have kept on coming out right along side PS2, I don't think you could dispute this so readily. I'm just saying that the games would look fairly simular... touchy touchy people. x_x

LOL yeah dont touch DONT TOUCH! O_O

It just seems to me that its basically pointless to try to down the PS2 after all these years, I mean fuckin cmon man how many Kick ass looking games has to be on a system before ppl gotta make themselves feel better by saying something like "lowest common denominator :roll:

In all respect man its BULLSHIT the PS2 can pump out some damn good graphics just the same as any other current gen system and it just happens to have the BEST LIBRARY ever for ANY CONSOLE IN EXISTENCE but if you still want to argue the old hat of a few polygons here.

I guess your point is that the mutliport games released across all current gen systems are shit because the majority of them was designed for the PS2 in mind? am I right? that is your point isnt it?
That might be for the simple fact that both publishers and developers make games to make money and the surest bet this generation was the very capable PS2 wether some ppl like it or not :D

[njiska]

Good point Dan ..but I still have my doubts and yeah ive played Headhunter on my DC a few years back and its a good game.

Thats why I asked "could or not have been on Segas Dreamcast with out a Large drop in gaphical quality " and I think that would pertain to MGS2, meaning there would be to much of a drop in graphical quality not the minor drop like in GC to PS2 RE4 and as others have pointed out there is the double anolog issue wich I will at least admit could be overcome on most games if they were hypothetically ported to the DC.

MGS2 could've been done on the DC just fine except for one little thing. It's the graphics department because if ported properly the DC could handle it. The only reason it runs slow on the Box is because it was a bad port. The lack of a second dual stick also wouldn't affect it either because the game never really uses it.

The biggest problem with running something like MGS2, and many other titles mentioned here, is the lack of storage space. MGS2 would've taken over 6 GD-roms to run on the dreamcast and that just wouldn't happen.

In short you could make the game work, but it'd bee a real bitch to play.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Really now... your going to speak for me too? Jesus Christ.
Objectivity... look it up.

[sabre2922]

Good point Dan ..but I still have my doubts and yeah ive played Headhunter on my DC a few years back and its a good game.

Thats why I asked "could or not have been on Segas Dreamcast with out a Large drop in gaphical quality " and I think that would pertain to MGS2, meaning there would be to much of a drop in graphical quality not the minor drop like in GC to PS2 RE4 and as others have pointed out there is the double anolog issue wich I will at least admit could be overcome on most games if they were hypothetically ported to the DC.

MGS2 could've been done on the DC just fine except for one little thing. It's the graphics department because if ported properly the DC could handle it. The only reason it runs slow on the Box is because it was a bad port. The lack of a second dual stick also wouldn't affect it either because the game never really uses it.

The biggest problem with running something like MGS2, and many other titles mentioned here, is the lack of storage space. MGS2 would've taken over 6 GD-roms to run on the dreamcast and that just wouldn't happen.

In short you could make the game work, but it'd bee a real bitch to play.

hmm good point on the GDrom memory vs the DVD that is one factor that I wasnt considering-BUT Im still not convinced that the great DC could run a competent version of MGS2 but it seems that IM the only one so far so I digress :) I would very much like to believe that it could since the DC is STILL my favorite home console ever, now tied with PS2.

[kevin_psx]

XENOSAGA - You'd need 8 CDs to store all the movies! LOL


If they could squeeze RE2 into a n64 cart
do 3D polygons on a 2D sprite machine like super nintendo
or 3D baseball on a primitive Atari

They could find a way to do everything on DC. Might look crap - but it could be done. Even storage is not an issue 'cause Gamecube's disc is not much bigger - Cube's never had a problem with storage.

[dbiersdorf]

Beyond Good and Evil seems like one of those great titles that could have ran on the Dreamcast.

The first Prince of Persia as well, probably too.

Oh and Viewtiful Joe.

[Ed Oscuro]

...you can see that the two games look similar in graphics.
Similar in the same way current PS2 titles and Xbox titles can look similar, yes? That second Headhunter pic is nice, but the detailing on the first pic is pretty lousy compared to what's in MGS2. Not that it's bad.


I know that there are a few things that the Dreamcast couldn't have rendered quite as well, but that's where you strip those out and, for the most part, no one even notices.
Now here's where I am confused. Yes, can't MANY current-gen games be done on the Dreamcast (with the exclusion of those heavy on AI) if you simply start chopping poly counts and decrease the texture resolution? I guess Half-Life 2 can be done in the original HL engine, for that matter, just slap some physics in there and you're ready to go.

Gradius V in particular...you could do that on the NES, I suppose, but of course it'll look nothing like the current ports. The Dreamcast wasn't as good as people believe - great for the time, but it's not able to hold its own with current-gen consoles - except the PS2, but barely.

For my part, wasn't Airforce Delta Storm on the Dreamcast? Great looking early Xbox title.

[Ed Oscuro]

Cube's never had a problem with storage.
You mean in general, or with ports? DC to GC ports are fine because the GC's discs are ever so slightly bigger (I think, what, 300 MB more?), but cutscene fans hate the GC's lack of disc space - an area in which the PS2 beats it, no problems.

[kevin_psx]

Cube's never had a problem with storage. cutscene fans hate the GC's lack of disc space - an area in which the PS2 beats it, no problems.

What Cube games were "hurt" by lack of space?

[Ed Oscuro]

Any game with substantial movie footage (Lord of the Rings movie games ported to the GC got weaker video, so I've heard) is in trouble, but even regular games.

Yeah, you can always do the two disc thing, which I don't personally mind that much - those cases are sure fun to look at - but it wasn't really necessary, ya know?

GC games that use two discs need to waste huge chunks of space replicating data, even if you don't have something like The Mercenaries playable on two discs. Any reused game models, sounds, or areas will need to be copied over.

That takes a chunk out of the already scarce 1.4 GB of digital real estate on a GC disc. Together, two GC discs aren't reaching 3 GB, let alone 4.7.

A while back it was shown that many games - even exclusives - don't come close to using the full space on the disc, but we're talking about a HUGE difference here, and games with movie segments are hurt worse than most.

The easy solution? Compress the video more. If that fails you can always drop features or compress the actual game assets more...

[Joker T]

Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2
Need for Speed: Underground
Jak and Daxter: The Precusrsor Legacy-PS2
Jak 2-PS2
Jak 3-PS2
SSX-PS2
TimeSplitters
TimeSplitters 2
Half-Life-PS2
Socom U.S. Navy Seals-PS2
Katamari Damacy-PS2
Dead to Rights
Indigo Prophecy
Dead or Alive 3-XBOX
Freedom Fighters

These games seem like they could be pulled off on Dreamcast quite well.
I have labled the exclusives for each system with the system name.

[goatdan]

Holy crap... long post warning, guys... many things to reply too...


It just seems to me that its basically pointless to try to down the PS2 after all these years, I mean fuckin cmon man how many Kick ass looking games has to be on a system before ppl gotta make themselves feel better by saying something like "lowest common denominator :roll:

Um, the point was that of the current systems, the PS2 is the least powerful. The fact that you state that so many kick-ass looking games have come out for it actually is a counterpoint as to why the Dreamcast could do graphics close to that. More on this in a minute...


The biggest problem with running something like MGS2, and many other titles mentioned here, is the lack of storage space. MGS2 would've taken over 6 GD-roms to run on the dreamcast and that just wouldn't happen.

It all depends. The Dreamcast used compression for many of the FMV scenes, and I think runs them at a lower resolution natively. Based on that alone, a lot of the cutscenes would automatically get a little smaller.

Metal Gear Solid was on two PSOne discs. Shenmue II was on three GD-ROMs, and then got transferred to one Xbox DVD. I would figure that MGS2 would fit on between two and three GD-ROMs, especially after compression.


BUT Im still not convinced that the great DC could run a competent version of MGS2 but it seems that IM the only one so far so I digress :)

This is where we come right back to the 'the PS2 has some kick ass looking games, so how is it the lowest denominator' argument you were making above. If games were designed with the Dreamcast in mind, they could work. A perfect example in my mind is Tony Hawk 2. It was obviously designed to take advantage of the Dreamcast hardware, but it also came out on the Playstation and did a decent job at that.

Hell, Tony Hawk 3 came out on the N64. It looks a "litte" worse than the Xbox version, but it still plays pretty good.

It most definitely could be done with just about any game. Graphics would have to be cut a little, but beyond that, I don't think it couldn't handle anything that the current consoles -- 360 excluded -- are pumping out.



...you can see that the two games look similar in graphics.
Similar in the same way current PS2 titles and Xbox titles can look similar, yes? That second Headhunter pic is nice, but the detailing on the first pic is pretty lousy compared to what's in MGS2. Not that it's bad.

Well, it depends on how similiar you think that PS2 and Xbox games look. I would tend to agree, as for the most part I think they look very similiar with just a slight touch of polish to the Xbox ones. If you are thinking it is more of a large leap, then I don't agree.

We hit the point starting with the Dreamcast that consoles can push so many polys that they can all display the same general thing. What is lost between conversions is the number of polys being shown on the screen. Thus, the Xbox 360 can have really smooth looking stuff while the Dreamcast could never hope to achieve that. But the Dreamcast (and PS2 and GameCube) could probably play the games made for the 360, just with some graphical downgrades.

Haven't we already seen the same thing with Gun, Live, NBA 2K6 and Madden? Same basic underlying game, much better Xbox 360 graphics.


Now here's where I am confused. Yes, can't MANY current-gen games be done on the Dreamcast (with the exclusion of those heavy on AI) if you simply start chopping poly counts and decrease the texture resolution? I guess Half-Life 2 can be done in the original HL engine, for that matter, just slap some physics in there and you're ready to go.

Again -- we're at the point in graphics that you can just ratchet things down to the right level. I forget where it is, but somewhere is an example of Doom 3 running on some really old computer hardware. It looks like ass, but it still renders and is playable at a decent framerate.

Same AI, same engine, same everything. Older hardware. Looks like ass.


Gradius V in particular...you could do that on the NES, I suppose, but of course it'll look nothing like the current ports. The Dreamcast wasn't as good as people believe - great for the time, but it's not able to hold its own with current-gen consoles - except the PS2, but barely.

The difference is that the NES has capabilities that couldn't have handled Gradius V. Limits on how many sprites on screen and colors and so on. The limits on today's systems for the most part don't come in for AI. They come in on graphics and storage space, although storage space is vastly overrated -- most games on DVD don't fill a DVD anyway.


For my part, wasn't Airforce Delta Storm on the Dreamcast? Great looking early Xbox title.

If I'm not mistaken, that was a sequel to Airforce Delta, which was the DC original, not a port.

--

In summary, I'm not just saying this all because I'm a rabid Dreamcast fan who is disillusioned and I think it could've kicked the Xbox's ass graphically. I'm not crazy. But game engines today are simply made differently.

Because of that, things could be made on the Dreamcast. And the Dreamcast is not that far behind the PS2 graphically. In fact, comparing the specs other than disc size the two systems are more comprable than people would believe. Each has bonuses and negatives. For instance, the Dreamcast has better native 2D support than the PS2.

Just about anything could've been done on it. Just like just about anything done on it probably could've been done on the PS1, but we're looking at games that will, as I've said, end up looking like ass.