-----

[stonic]

-----

[Kejoriv]

Definitely a good change. Makes a lot of sense

[Vroomfunkel]

Looks great to me. Hopefully this will also encourage sellers to leave bad feedback on non-paying bidders, without having to worry about their own feedback being spoiled by the retaliation.

It does annoy me how some idiots manage to stay on ebay for ages merely because sellers are too scared to leave them a bad feedback.

Too bad it's not going to be applied retrospectively - or I'd be back up to 100% ....

Vroomfunkel

[stonic]

Too bad it's not going to be applied retrospectively

I know- that's the part that sucks. That'd be too much effort on their part (and they'd probably raise fees again to "justify" all that extra work).

They should also remove any neg fb from users who had their accounts disco'd.

[Kejoriv]

They should also remove any neg fb from users who had their accounts disco'd.


Definitely.

[FantasiaWHT]

What's the change? I can't go to ebay from work... :roll:

[drummy]

What's the change? I can't go to ebay from work... :roll:
They're saying that any negative feedback left from now on by non-paying buyers who did not respond at all to the Unpaid Item claim will have the negative feedback they left removed. Sorry if that sounds stupid.

[kevin_psx]

Last month we launched a change to the feedback system that requires members who have 10 or less feedback to complete a brief tutorial before leaving their first neutral or negative feedback (read the announcement). At that time, I also announced that this month we will begin removing feedback ratings left by buyers who don't respond to the Unpaid Item claim process on eBay. This change is now live.
I like the part in bold!!! I got a lady who never paid. I filed & got my Fees back - but now I'm scared to leave a negative 'cause she might retaliate & ruin my christmas sales.

Question - What happens to people who never leave a negative until they are at some high value - like 25? They are not required to do a tutorial? They should be.


And - Anyone know why some of my old feedbacks disappeared? Some of the really old ones (>4 years) that were Negatives have dropped off. Any idea why?

k

[FantasiaWHT]

Kevin_psx, I might be wrong but I think if anybody's account get's banned or cancelled, any negative feedback they leave is removed.

I think the need to go further.

It should be set up so that you don't see the feedback that was left to you until you leave your own.

I bought a game, paid instantly with paypal. Week later, nothing in the mail, so I send a nice friendly email asking where it is. He says he shipped it already, and it's not his fault that the USPS takes so long. I finally get it 16 days after the auction ended. I check the postmark, and it was marked as 3 days before I received it, so he was obviously lying.

I leave him neutral feedback. He leaves me negative feedback and gives no reason other than "he gave me neutral feedback. It's not my fault USPS is slow"

[chimp69]

They need to change the rule that feedback on the sellers part should be left as soon as payment is made. Im tired of sellers screwing me out of stuff, and waiting to leave me bad feedback.
they Know Ill leave bad feedback, cause I never received the Item. So If I leave them bad feedback, thell leave me bad feedback. For what? I paid you MF. change this. How are you gonna pick on the ebay newbies. I remember being one. How can you build feedback if nobody will let you bid. Make the actual auctions more respectable. If the item isnt paid for, go after all that lawful action ebay talks about. Binding contract my ass.
I read about all the ebay woes on this site, and it all sucks. All these poor buyers, on the end of a bunch of crooked sellers. like the guy talking about how he even refunded the guy, and still got a negative.
this all comes down to the ebay pros. the guys who have scammed us time and time again. Its not the new ebay members doing it. I guess Im real glad DP is around. You can make deals with people, and most are more honest than the ebay folk.\
and fantasia has a great idea. hidden until the end feedback.

[kevin_psx]

Kevin_psx, I might be wrong but I think if anybody's account get's banned or cancelled, any negative feedback they leave is removed.
Nope those feedbacks from banned users are still there.


It should be set up so that you don't see the feedback that was left to you until you leave your own.
Disagree. Read this story - "Buyer leaves negative after I gave refund"
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75683

I need to protect myself from Buyers who leave undeserved Negatives. I can not do that if I can't see their feedback.

[Vroomfunkel]

They should also remove any neg fb from users who had their accounts disco'd.

I disagree. You can have your account banned for many reasons, most of which would not impact on the validity of any negative feedback that you had left.

Eg. Not paying your eBay fees, being found to have multiple user ids, indulging in a bit of shill bidding, selling an import converter, surcharging for Paypal / eBay fees etc etc.

I am not justifying all of these things - but none of them have any bearing on whether or not the feedback you have left should be valid.

Vroomfunkel

[kevin_psx]

They should also remove any neg fb from users who had their accounts disco'd.I disagree. You can have your account banned for many reasons, most of which would not impact on the validity of any negative feedback that you had left.

But most people who are banned, are banned because they are scamming either buyers or sellers. For example I wrote some 3 years ago:

"Sold movie. Never paid. Never answered emails. Avoid this buyer." He of course said, "Lousy seller" & gave a negative I did not deserve. Later the person was banned because he was a repeat non-payer according to his feedback.

Why should I keep an undeserved neg on my record?

[johno590]

They are taking some steps in the right direction, just a little bit more to go with the feedback system, because it still has lots of things that could be changed for the better.

[Vroomfunkel]

But most people who are banned, are banned because they are scamming either buyers or sellers.

I don't know how you could possibly know this for sure. Where's the evidence?

[kevin_psx]

But most people who are banned, are banned because they are scamming either buyers or sellers. I don't know how you could possibly know this for sure. Where's the evidence?
(1) Okay. You're correct. Don't know the stats for all of ebay. Just myself. See point #2.


(2) Over half my negatives are from people with <90% feedback because they bid but don't pay. Why should I keep an undeserved neg on my record?

[Goblin]

Can someone tell me when Ebay started allowing sellers to "hide" their feedback comments? I was going to bid on something the other day and the seller had his feedback hidden. If I recall it showed the total score, but not the breakdown or any comments.

Needless to say I didn't complete the bid. If he is hidding the comments then there is clearly something he is hiding.

[Vroomfunkel]

Can someone tell me when Ebay started allowing sellers to "hide" their feedback comments? I was going to bid on something the other day and the seller had his feedback hidden. If I recall it showed the total score, but not the breakdown or any comments.

Needless to say I didn't complete the bid. If he is hidding the comments then there is clearly something he is hiding.

Quite a while ago. You are still able to see the number of negatives / neutrals they have, and the percentage.

It may not be the comments that they want to keep private, it may be the actual items that they have bought or sold. Some people like to buy / sell things that they would rather other people did not know about :)

Or they just don't want people to know how much they pay for things, or something like that.

Unless their percentage / no. of negs is bad, I would still bid even if they have private feedback.

Vroomfunkel

[slapdash]

They should also remove any neg fb from users who had their accounts disco'd.

To flip this the other way, I wish you could still leave feedback even after someone was NARUd -- it's usually pretty clear there's a problem, but once in a great while a user is NARU'd before there's a lot of negatives, and so people also dealing with the seller may not get a big enough hint that they should file claims against the seller ASAP instead of waiting to see if their package comes "next week maybe"...

And I'd really like eBay to turn my two neutrals to positives since the text IS positive, but back in the day when I got them "neutral" was the default radio button choice, rather than having no default and forcing the person leaving feedback to explicitly click a choice.

[stonic]

I agree. I've run into that situation, where new users will immediately default on a few auctions all at once. I usually give people 3 weeks, but by the time I realize they're not going to pay, their account is already shut down :/




And I'd really like eBay to turn my two neutrals to positives since the text IS positive, but back in the day when I got them "neutral" was the default radio button choice, rather than having no default and forcing the person leaving feedback to explicitly click a choice.

How strange- why would they do that? I joined in '98 and I don't remember Ebay having that system by that point.

[FantasiaWHT]

Kevin_psx, I might be wrong but I think if anybody's account get's banned or cancelled, any negative feedback they leave is removed.
Nope those feedbacks from banned users are still there.


It should be set up so that you don't see the feedback that was left to you until you leave your own.
Disagree. Read this story - "Buyer leaves negative after I gave refund"
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75683

I need to protect myself from Buyers who leave undeserved Negatives. I can not do that if I can't see their feedback.

Feedback should NOT be left on the feedback you were given. Feedback should solely be about the sale, payment, delivery, and condition of the item. I agree that in the current method and my method, it's an abusable system, but I think it's more important to protect the buyer than the seller

[Mayhem]

One thought that did occur to me, is that this will also stop people from signing up new accounts to crap on (sometimes deservedly) various auctions by bidding them up to insane amounts.

[Griking]

Feedback should NOT be left on the feedback you were given. Feedback should solely be about the sale, payment, delivery, and condition of the item.

I agree with you 100%

[slapdash]

And I'd really like eBay to turn my two neutrals to positives since the text IS positive, but back in the day when I got them "neutral" was the default radio button choice, rather than having no default and forcing the person leaving feedback to explicitly click a choice.

How strange- why would they do that?

It was probably just an oversight, or they weren't thinking about the issues that might have.


I joined in '98 and I don't remember Ebay having that system by that point.

I joined in July '97, and the feedback was fairly early. However, I don't see them now, so they either got converted, or got dropped, evidently. Is there any to search for it? I don't see an option on my feedback page, nor do I see any indication of neutrals. Weird...

[Austin]

Sounds like a nice change to me.

[Zing]

Note that this new policy is pretty neutered. It only applies if the non-paying bidder does not respond to the claim at all. The buyer can respond to the claim with nothing but the words "screw you!" and this policy will no longer apply. :hmm: Also, it only keeps the negative from being in your feedback total. The comment remains. That being said, giving these non-paying idiots strikes against them is far more important that the measly single negative you might receive in return.

Also, there is no stated policy that sellers must give feedback immediately. I am one of the sellers that refuses to give feedback until I have received feedback. There are two main reasons for this:
1) The transaction is the overall experience, not just "I got my money, A+++++++++". I am in a situation right now where the buyer paid promptly and properly, received the item on schedule, but filed a paypal claim saying it never arrived anyway. Looking through his feedback, it seems this isn't the first time he has done this to a seller. You can bet this guy will not be receiving a postive from me.
2) I learned very early on that, for some reason, buyers just do not remember to leave feedback. I guess they just get their item and move on in life. I delay my feedback to give them an incentive to leave me feedback.

[kevin_psx]

Disagree. Read this story - "Buyer leaves negative after I gave refund"
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75683
I need to protect myself from Buyers who leave undeserved Negatives. I can not do that if I can't see their feedback. Feedback should NOT be left on the feedback you were given. Feedback should solely be about the sale, payment, delivery, and condition of the item.

Disagree. In the example cited the Buyer is being an ass. I gave a full refund + and extra $5.00. I don't deserve a neg.





And I got screwed by one of my bidders. I filed a Non-paying Dispute. And waited 7 days with no contact & then suddenly in the LAST HOUR the buyer writes "I'm not payig you."

Great.

Now I can't give the bas... um - guy the negative he deserves.

:angry:

[FantasiaWHT]

Disagree. In the example cited the Buyer is being an ass. I gave a full refund + and extra $5.00. I don't deserve a neg.



No, and I didn't deserve a negative JUST BECAUSE I left a negative either. Under either system, anybody can still be a jerk and just leave a negative for no reason, but at least in my system you can't leave a negative just because you were left a negative.


Now I can't give the bas... um - guy the negative he deserves.

:angry:

And why not?

[kevin_psx]

Disagree. In the example cited the Buyer is being an ass. I gave a full refund + and extra $5.00. I don't deserve a neg. No, and I didn't deserve a negative JUST BECAUSE I left a negative either.

My point is not me. My point is the Buyer deserves a negative 'cause he got $5.00 free - And he's still whining. He's a poor asset to Ebay & deserves a big fat (-)



I filed a Non-paying Dispute. And in the LAST HOUR the buyer writes "I'm not payig you." Great. Now I can't give the bas... um - guy the negative he deserves. :angry: And why not?

Retaliation Negative from the Non-Payer--- I can't afford to drop below 98%!

[FantasiaWHT]

I totally agree! You don't want to drop below 98%.

Maybe you don't get what I'm saying, but in my system, retaliatory negatives cease to exist, because you don't know what the other person left for you.