Working Designs closes it's doors... :( [Archive]

MarkMan

12-13-2005, 05:35 AM

From their site:

First of all, sorry for being incommunicado for such a long time. It's been a busy time, as you'll see.

There's no easy way to say it, so I just will. Working Designs is gone. All the staff has been laid off and the office is closed and has been for some time. Yes, the website is still here, and I am going to do my best to keep it tucked away somewhere on the 'net so it doesn't become an illicit domain. (Of course, some of the haters may be of the mind that it's been illicit all along, heh!).

The most frustrating part of all of this is that I know that our fanbase is still there. Growlanser Generations sold well, but of course not better than it would have sold as two separate titles. We just spent too much time fighting the good fight to even get it out, and other games approved.

Though almost finished and substantially improved from the Japanese release, Goemon is dead for the US, and that was really the final straw. If I can't guarantee that the games I personally choose for us to release in the US can actually get approved and come out, there's no business to be done. There is a possibility that it may be released in Europe (as well as Growlanser Generations), but nothing is finalized yet.

I know many of you will have lots of questions, and there will be some I can answer, and some I can't. Sony has made it clear that they do not want the details of their dealings with any publisher made public. Suffice to say that you would buy what we wanted to sell if we could sell it.

I want to thank each and every one of you personally for being a fan, buying the games we released, and telling your friends. You HAVE made a difference, because you bought the crazy things we did. Thanks to YOU, there are deluxe packs, pack-in soundtracks, better packaging, great hint guides, and better localizations in general. We said it a lot, but it really was true. We were nothing without you.

For the future, there are still great opportunities. I have been in touch with a number of other publishers and manufacturers and I will be working with some of the WD staff to do games for other publishers for the time being, but not as Working Designs. One thing that holds a ton of promise is XBOX 360 RPGs, and I've contacted Microsoft about getting what's underway in Japan out in the US and helping to get more done worldwide. We'll see what happens on that front, but please let them know that YOU WANT MORE JRPGs here. There's some amazing stuff coming for the '360 in Japan, and I know I want it - I think you will, too.

Thanks for everything. It's a tough road ahead for games that aren't of the least-common-denominator variety. The choices you make with your hardware dollars are more important than ever for the generation that is upon us.

With that, I bid all of us...

...Good night, and Good Luck.

Sad day. :(

Tron 2.0

12-13-2005, 05:44 AM

R.I.P WD even if Victor was a jerk.

The Brown Eye

12-13-2005, 05:53 AM

I had a nice long reply typed up, and then my computer froze. D'oh!

I'll just say that it's sad to see a publisher that took many risks close it's doors, but it's not at all surprising.

WanganRunner

12-13-2005, 07:05 AM

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Six Switch

12-13-2005, 07:25 AM

already in classic games,complete with first post by an autistic child.

zmweasel

12-13-2005, 07:48 AM

DEBRO

12-13-2005, 08:44 AM

:(
I looked forward to WD releases. It took the SegaCD Lunar for me to notice them. Ever since I got Lunar on release day I've been a WD fan.

You will be missed.

Rabid Peanut-Butter

12-13-2005, 09:00 AM

:( *SNIFF*

Griking

12-13-2005, 09:05 AM

R.I.P WD even if Victor was a jerk.

He wasn't a jerk. Not always. He did some really nice things for me, and he did some really nice things for others.

Keep in mind this is a guy who donated part of the profits from Iron Storm--a World War II strategy game with Nazi imagery--to the Holocaust Memorial Museum. That's an exceptionally non-jerky act.

-- Z.

I'm assuming that Victor was the president of the company but what did he do to rub people the wrong way so badly that a few people now have said that he was a <insert insult here>?

I know I'll hate to see them go. I've always appreciated publishers who treated their game packaging as more than an after-thought.

zmweasel

12-13-2005, 09:31 AM

I'm assuming that Victor was the president of the company but what did he do to rub people the wrong way so badly that a few people now have said that he was a <insert insult here>?

He spoke his mind, basically--never chose the politically correct route, and never shied away from controversial statements. People loved him or hated him for it.

-- Z.

blissfulnoise

12-13-2005, 09:48 AM

I've bought up every Working Designs title since the original Lunar on the Sega CD at the point of release.

Even when I was quite young, I appreciated and respected their effort to try and put out special products. Foil embossed manuals, excellent disk art, pack-ins, pre-order bonuses; WD set the standard.

They will be missed.

VACRMH

12-13-2005, 09:52 AM

Seeing as they were a modern company, and that the topic title in classic gaming is nothing short of an insult... I say keep this topic going.

Jibbajaba

12-13-2005, 09:59 AM

Seeing as they were a modern company, and that the topic in classic gaming is nothing short of an insult... I say keep this topic going.

That and the fact that this thread was started first.

Chris

Daria

12-13-2005, 10:12 AM

I suddenly feel guilty for having not bought Growlanser generations. I didn't have the money at the time to pick up the delux pack, for which I thought the packins were rather silly compared to their other boxsets. But I was also strat-rpged out at the time (and still am). With all the tactical RPGs Nippon Ichi, and ATLUS have been churning out lately I just couldn't stomach buying another. Even if it did have the WD touch.

I really wish their last game could have been a traditional RPG now.

Course I should have just bought GLG too. :(

Ulticron

12-13-2005, 10:19 AM

Reading that hurts almost as much as if a cherished family member died! I loved Working Designs, my first experience w/their games was on the Saturn. They took quality to the level of extreme. I don't know what else to say except this is very depressing to hear.

goatdan

12-13-2005, 10:21 AM

As I said in the other thread (and I do respect this thread MUCH more), I've just started trying to get into the Lunar series. I have been playing Lunar Legend quite a bit lately (Ubisoft, I know) and I picked up Lunar for the Playstation just a couple weeks ago. I was (and still am) hoping to pick up their other PSX releases, but it looks like I'm too late to help.

It always sucks when _any_ developer closes their doors. I'd be sad even if EA closed their doors, even though I haven't enjoyed much they've done recently.

VACRMH

12-13-2005, 10:42 AM

It always sucks when _any_ developer closes their doors. I'd be sad even if EA closed their doors, even though I haven't enjoyed much they've done recently.

Very true, even though there's hate for Accliam by many... I still have plenty of fond memories playing some classics they released.

So sad to see them go :(

DragonMaster Sam

12-13-2005, 10:48 AM

I guess we'll never see another Lunar game, unless it's from Ubisoft.. And I suppose John Truitt will never been heard from again, which is a shame.

Ed Oscuro

12-13-2005, 11:14 AM

I guess we'll never see another Lunar game, unless it's from Ubisoft.. And I suppose John Truitt will never been heard from again, which is a shame.
Lunar will keep going or not, irrespective of what's happened to WD. John Truitt will certainly remain in the workforce, and as he's in the industry he might just stay along.

For my part (thank god I don't have to waste half my post responding to the original reply), I see this as a chance for Victor and crew to work on bigger products. It sucks he's going to have to work for big companies and lose his independence, but sometimes that's the way things go. I think he survived longer than most anybody else would be able, even up into the present day (which is pretty incredible).

hezeuschrist

12-13-2005, 11:48 AM

The first thing that came to my mind while reading that is if Sony is going to be so up in arms and compelte bastards about it, why not move to Microsoft? They need the Eastern influence in the West very, very badly.

I'm sure some of these proporties have exclusivity deals with Sony, but likely not all. It could be a huge step for WD (or whatever WD becomes) and for Microsoft.

And it sure does suck. I'm still on the road to getting a complete WD collection, and now it's just all the more important :(

RCM

12-13-2005, 12:20 PM

I can't say i'm too upset. I really wasn't into any of their stuff. I know RPG's were their bread and butter and all, i'm not a fan of the genre.

I do respect their achievements and it's always sad when a respectable publisher goes under. The most shocking thing about this announcment is that the end didn't come sooner.

As for the Vic Ireland love/bashing, I don't know him but he sure seems like an asshole. He can't be all bad though, he made great contributions to gaming!

RIP WD

RCM

12-13-2005, 12:20 PM

sorry double post.

unbroken

12-13-2005, 12:21 PM

The first 2 lunar games were definetly some of the best RPG's i have ever played. Sad to see them go. Hopefully someone can pickup some of their licenses and continue on with the great games. RIP

Damaramu

12-13-2005, 12:27 PM

Well I must say I'm certainly shocked to hear WD is gone. They've been good to us gamers (for the most part), giving us the goods.

I really appreciated their efforts to give us Japanese style packaging and deluxe sets.

It always puzzled me when people lamented on the fact the Japanese always got cool limited editon sets and such, only to gripe about delays when WD did the same for us.

I've never met Mr. Ireland but I gotta give him respect for trying his best to cater to us geeks.

RIP, WD! :puppydogeyes:

fishsandwich

12-13-2005, 12:28 PM

Why did WD quit working with Sega and switch to Sony after the Saturn? I've always wondered about that.

What were some of Victor's controversial statements/opinions?

Please do tell.

Captain Wrong

12-13-2005, 12:31 PM

WD published the only RPG I've ever liked enough to finish. Plus they brought over some shmups for the PSX. (OK RayCrisis wasn't all that, but it was better than nothing. Their other games were better. :D)

Frankly, I never cared for the super deluxe packaging (and the associated price increase) but I have a lot of respect for them taking a chance and doing it. Hell, that right there is what I resepect most about WD. They took chances no one else would.

I must confess though, I thought they were dead already. Then again, I lost interest in the company about the time the Arc the Lad collection finally dropped and I realized that more RPGs were not in my future. I always held out hope they'd bring more shmups over but I knew that wasn't where the money was so they probably wouldn't.

Hmm...I guess this kind of reads like a backhanded compliment. I don't mean it to. :) Nuff respect for WD and anyone who thinks the gaming community is better off without them is saddly mistaken.

RCM

12-13-2005, 12:37 PM

Why did WD quit working with Sega and switch to Sony after the Saturn? I've always wondered about that.

What were some of Victor's controversial statements/opinions?

Please do tell.

Bernie Stolar stuck them in a shit spot at E3 and then proclaimed the Saturn was dead. I think that's how it went.

Vic promised to have nothing to do with Sega while Stolar was running the show. I think that's how it went!

Zilla

12-13-2005, 12:41 PM

I've enjoyed a few of the games I have purchased by them and its sad to see them go. I really like Vanguard Bandits and Arc the Lad Collection. For being a small company they really stood out to me and I really enjoyed their packaging for the games very cool. I just wish the guys who worked there the best of luck and I hope they turn up somewhere and manage to influence some new releases or bring over some different games form japan. Its too bad another good publisher is gone.

Castelak

12-13-2005, 01:10 PM

VADER: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

MegaDrive20XX

12-13-2005, 01:20 PM

I will miss you Working Designs. "Our games go to 11!" will be written on your tombstone..

I stuck with you when Arc the Lad Collection was delayed for so friggin long....even my best friend waited so long for Growlanser...Yet we still collected your games without any complaints...

You will forever be remembered for Lunar however. Yet you do so much more for Saturn, PSX, and Sega CD days.

You ended up being a collector's paradise with the variants and taunted us all with the different designs.

Blackjax

12-13-2005, 01:29 PM

Crap, this isn't the first thing I wanted to see in the morning... O_O

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that Sony rejected Goemon for one reason or another and that was the final nail...

Working Desgins was easily one of my favorite publishers. Sure, they had their flaws in the translations, and usually had glacial release schedules that frustrated a lot of people, but somehow the games that came out in the end were quite worth it.

Both the Lunars on the SegaCD are games that I'll rate above any Final Fantasy released (and don't get me wrong, I like Final Fantasy) and Popful Mail was a great action RPG. Vay, well, I bought Vay and we'll just leave it at that LOL

The first PSX Lunar, quite frankly, is probably my favorite RPG made. While I perfer the SegaCD EB over the PSX one, the PSX one certainly was also a great game to play. I also recently played through the entire Arc The Lad Collection after owning it for years, and a few really irritating bugs aside, really enjoyed them.

WD will be missed :puppydogeyes:

As far as someone asking why WD dropped off the Saturn, there was a really big incident at one of the E3s (1996? 1997? one of those) where Working Designs was supposed to be featured in the Sega area, but instead of showing off WD's games, Sega of America's president shoved them all the way in the back of the area, in a corner away from all convention traffic. I believe this may have been the same E3 that Sega announced one of the systems that would be in competition to become the Dreamcast and declared the Saturn to be history. Some other things happened too that I don't remember (I'd have to dig out my old email archives, but this was a huge deal on a mailing list I was on at the time) but the upshot was that the translation of Lunar: Silver Star Story was immediately cancelled and WD wouldn't do any more games for Sega as long as the current management was in place. Magic Knight Rayearth came out after this, so I have to assume that too much work was done on that game at that point to scrap it.

exit

12-13-2005, 03:21 PM

I've always rememberd Working Design as the company that released unique games, well nothing lasts forever and I will always remember them.

koster

12-13-2005, 03:25 PM

Truly a sad day... :bawling:

Working Designs, R.I.P.

Melf

12-13-2005, 03:37 PM

It's always sad to see a developer die, but I honestly can't say I'm surprised at this news. They were releasing what, like 2 games a year lately and were taking forever to get them out. I know people are going to say that they weren't a big company and were doing the best they could, but honestly, in this day and age of mega corporations like EA and Square-Enix, WD just couldn't compete. Add that companies like Atlus were doing the same thing with more regularity and the writing was on the wall years ago.

As for the delays affecting me, I must have reserved Magic Knight Rayearth about 7 times. Pissed me off to always see it was delayed. This is what killed them, not Sega's poor treatment, or Sony's practices. If you want to compete, you have to actually release more than a game or two a year.

WD was great up until this generation, then they all but became irrelevant.

RevQuixo

12-13-2005, 03:47 PM

I will miss you Working Designs. "Are games go to 11!" will be written on your tombstone..

That would suck for them as it is "Our Games go to 11!"

Still it would be ironic considering their "loose" translations. LOL

RevQuixo

12-13-2005, 03:53 PM

As for the delays affecting me, I must have reserved Magic Knight Rayearth about 7 times. Pissed me off to always see it was delayed. This is what killed them, not Sega's poor treatment, or Sony's practices. If you want to compete, you have to actually release more than a game or two a year.
.

Magic Knight Rayearth's delay had to do with the legal wranglings of releasing the game with the proper names of the characters *not* with Working Designs desire to delay it. IIRC their was an American version of MKR on television that changed the names of the characters and WD didn't want to do it in the game...so it went back and forth forever until the MKR tv show was taken off the air and WD was free to release it as they originally intended. It is a credit to WD that they even stuck by the game...they could have canned it when the Saturn died...instead they brought it out anyway knowing that Sega wasn't supporting the Saturn anymore.

Ed Oscuro

12-13-2005, 03:53 PM

VADER: SNIP
man i get such a hard-on from format fuxx

I bet GnG was joking on the "Are games go to 11." Either way, pretty good LOL

TurboGenesis

12-13-2005, 03:55 PM

This is sad news indeed. I had been a supporter for Working Designs since the Turbo Grafx days. They brought us the Japanese games that no one else would. If not for them many great rpg's and shooties would not have been realized on these shores further fueling casual American gamers appetite for junk games. This market is in need of more translating publishers to bring the many unique and FUN games over from the east. I grow tired of FPS, sports and sandbox games that continue to flood the American market.

With deepest sympathy
Godspeed Working Desings :bawling:

Melf

12-13-2005, 03:55 PM

I know, and there was a hard drive crash to blame as well. I was just using it as the most extreme example of a problem that is basically what killed them. People aren't going to sit around and wait for one or two games a year, not when other companies are doing the same thing (sans the great packaging, to be sure) with more regularity. His indirect blaming of everything on Sony comes off more like denial to me.

norkusa

12-13-2005, 03:56 PM

I was never big into RPG's but I played a little bit of Vay on SegaCD. Any company that localizes a RPG with a fart joke within the first hour of play is okay in my book. I'll miss them.

Doonzmore

12-13-2005, 03:57 PM

After owning Lunar (PS1) for over a year i finally decided to whip it out over the past summer and it stands as only the second RPG I have ever completed (first being Thousand Arms) and for not being much of an RPG gamer, that is truly saying A LOT.

So long Working Designs.

drwily008

12-13-2005, 05:46 PM

That is indeed horrible news!

I found out this information in the "classing gaming" thread and was quite pissed as to the authors approach.

I have utmost respect for the company and wish they would have moved over to a more niche market (like the Gamecube). They could have done quite well there and sold lots of titles instead of being over shadowed by the mainstream crap put out on the PS2.

Anyways, an ode to you Victor and all all that your company did to bring out games that wouldn't have seen the light of day otherwise!

zmweasel

12-13-2005, 06:38 PM

His indirect blaming of everything on Sony comes off more like denial to me.

Nope, it's truth. For pretty much the entire PS1 run, Victor had a couple of guardian angels within Sony, veterans who had come over to SCEA from SEGA. For various reasons, those angels couldn't help him anymore in the PS2 era, and so it was a mighty struggle for Victor to get anything approved. The angel-less SCEA forced Victor to ship the technologically wanting Growlanser II and III as a bundle, and flatly rejected the even more primitive Goemon.

There are other factors, of course. Probably the biggest was that in the PS2 era, the competition got much savvier about picking the best Japanese double-A games, and so there wasn't much for Victor to realistically choose from. If Atlus didn't grab it, Ubisoft or Midway or Eidos or someone else did.

But, hey, let's celebrate that for 15 years, there was a video game company headed by a man who actually played and enjoyed video games, instead of a suit. We're never going to see that again.

-- Z.

EDIT: Typo-fixin'.

kainemaxwell

12-13-2005, 06:44 PM

WD was definitly a great company and one that thought of its fans, especially when it came to packaging and extras. They'll be missed.

drummy

12-13-2005, 07:07 PM

zmweasel

12-13-2005, 07:50 PM

Though almost finished and substantially improved from the Japanese release, Goemon is dead for the US, and that was really the final straw.
Which Goemon is he talking about? If it's the one for the DS, I'm going to be pissed.

He's talking about the first-gen Japanese PS2 Goemon, which was very technically raw. It would have taken a lot of reprogramming to bring it up to SCEA standards, but Victor had a very talented coder in-house.

Victor has always loved the franchise, and I remember him talking about playing through the N64 Goemon (Mystical Ninja) games with his son.

-- Z.

Six Switch

12-13-2005, 07:55 PM

weasel,what did you do at wd?

that is really cool you worked there,sorry the split was rough,whatever happened with that.

zmweasel

12-13-2005, 08:15 PM

weasel,what did you do at wd?

that is really cool you worked there,sorry the split was rough,whatever happened with that.

I was the "Vice-President of Game Content," aka Writer Boy, from early 1998 to early 2001. I was the lead rewriter on a bunch of WD games:

Albert Odyssey
Magic Knight Rayearth (one of maybe six writers on that one, actually)
Alundra
Lunar: SSSC
Vanguard Bandits
Lunar 2: EBC

The healthy majority of English text in all of those games, save Rayearth and a few segments of Lunar 2, is mine.

You can see me on the Lunar 2 making-of video disc, wearing a pound of orange pancake makeup to conceal my gigantic pores and mispronouncing "Lucia."

I also did a little work on Thunder Force V (the pilot journal) and Silhouette Mirage (the shopkeeper dialogue), and wrote the in-house strategy guides for Bandits and both PS1 Lunars, and wrote some back-of-the-box blurbs, and performed a bunch of other duties. Even at our post-SSSC peak, we only had about ten in-house employees, so we all had to multitask.

It was, for the most part, good times.

-- Z.

DonMarco

12-13-2005, 08:33 PM

The thing I always liked most about Working Designs was the company's goal. The image they wanted to make for them selves. I mean, what other publisher is kinda like Working Designs?

Working Designs bowing out is like saying goodbye to this guy at EB Games you've known for over 15 years. The guy who told you to get Dragon Force. The guy that still never sold his Sega CD because of Lunar: Eternal Blue. The guy that owned all the Langrisser games before they were released in the states. The guy who had a Goemon tattoo that no one could recognize.

I'll miss them. More for whcat they could do, rather than what they did. Alundra, RayStorm, super-duper omake boxes with the PSX Lunars... What other publisher would get behind those games? Especially Lunar. An old-school traditional J-RPG remake of a 8 year old Sega CD game from GameArts.

(I have three punching Ghaleon puppets.)

Griking

12-13-2005, 09:19 PM

So why is Sony so against WD as a company that they won't approve any of their games?

Also, someone else has already asked it but it wasn't really answered. Why couldn't WD just release games for the Gamecube or Xbox instead?

zmweasel

12-13-2005, 09:28 PM

So why is Sony so against WD as a company that they won't approve any of their games?

Sony wasn't "against" WD. It just couldn't be bothered to deal with such a small-taters company and such small-fry games. For example, Goemon was a very early, very raw PS2 release, and while a larger company might've been able to get it approved, WD didn't have the political pull to do so.

Also, someone else has already asked it but it wasn't really answered. Why couldn't WD just release games for the Gamecube or Xbox instead?

Because GameCube third-party titles didn't/don't sell, and there were very few localization-worthy Japanese Xbox games.

-- Z.

Ed Oscuro

12-13-2005, 09:46 PM

Think about it, WD had all the problems of a publisher, but none of the assets of a developer (no IP of their own) and while they could go to whatever system they wanted to, in practice they were reliant on Sony's largesse (whatever little there was) at the end.

Melf

12-13-2005, 10:35 PM

Nope, it's truth. For pretty much the entire PS1 run, Victor had a couple of guardian angels within Sony, veterans who had come over to SCEA from SEGA. For various reasons, those angels couldn't help him anymore in the PS2 era, and so it was a mighty struggle for Victor to get anything approved. The angel-less SCEA forced Victor to ship the technologically wanting Growlanser II and III as a bundle, and flatly rejected the even more primitive Goemon.

From the way you describe it, it doesn't sound like Sony was missing much. How many games had WD released this generation before Growlancer? You don't need to think too hard that realize that such a small track record coupled with asking Sony to release two older games doesn't really give you much of a chance, especially when companies like Ubi Soft and Atlus are much more prolific & timely with their releases. If what you say is truly the way it went down, then Sony wasn't being evil, it was practicing sound business.

There are other factors, of course. Probably the biggest was that in the PS2 era, the competition got much savvier about picking the best Japanese double-A games, and so there wasn't much for Victor to realistically choose from. If Atlus didn't grab it, Ubisoft or Midway or Eidos or someone else did.

That, I think, is it in a nutshell right there.

But, hey, let's celebrate that for 15 years, there was a video game company headed by a man who actually played and enjoyed video games, instead of a suit. We're never going to see that again.

Like I said, they were great up until this generation, and they had one hell of a run. No other company will ever do what they did in the same way.

MrRoboto19XX

12-13-2005, 10:52 PM

Is it just me or does anyone else think that games by working designs almost always had "that feeling"?

perhaps you know what Im taking about, that feeling that happened when you first started up Super Mario Bros 3, Link to the Past, Sonic and Knuckles, or Sihlouette Mirage. That feeling that youre arbout to experiance a game, not just play it.

Farewell WD, you will be missed.

swlovinist

12-13-2005, 11:30 PM

RIP Working Designs, I will play some homage games to remember your good days. Working Designs was in my hometown, they will be missed. I knew of their hard times at the end, I was just happy with them getting thier last project out the door.

Push Upstairs

12-14-2005, 12:29 AM

My experience with WD games is limited, I can say I enjoyed "Magic Knight Rayearth".

Some of the things said in that game were worth a few chuckles. LOL

"Sihlouette Mirage" was a different story, and i agree that the it was messed with more that it should have been.

All in all, its sad to see the little guys go. Let's just hope this never happens to PC games.

Tron 2.0

12-14-2005, 01:57 AM

R.I.P WD even if Victor was a jerk.

He wasn't a jerk. Not always. He did some really nice things for me, and he did some really nice things for others.

Keep in mind this is a guy who donated part of the profits from Iron Storm--a World War II strategy game with Nazi imagery--to the Holocaust Memorial Museum. That's an exceptionally non-jerky act.

-- Z.
Not from what some of the storys i've herd.

I use to bitter over the whole Saturn thing.

Not any more though 'still i did like what, WD stood for in taking a interest in... publishing japanese games.

Heck i have most of what they publish only thing i'm missing is "Vasteel and Growlanser Generations" still.

Buyatari

12-14-2005, 02:43 AM

Wow this is sad news. I figured they would be bought out by another. To just shut down man that sucks.

zmweasel

12-14-2005, 03:02 AM

From the way you describe it, it doesn't sound like Sony was missing much. How many games had WD released this generation before Growlancer?

Not counting Arc the Lad Collection, two: Gungriffon Blaze and Silpheed. Both flopped, and hard. I believe they're the only two WD games you can easily pick up used for less than $10. I was only around for Gungriffon Blaze, which was supposed to be a PS2 launch title, but which actually arrived at most stores a day or two later. Quite the fiasco.

You don't need to think too hard that realize that such a small track record coupled with asking Sony to release two older games doesn't really give you much of a chance, especially when companies like Ubi Soft and Atlus are much more prolific & timely with their releases. If what you say is truly the way it went down, then Sony wasn't being evil, it was practicing sound business.

Sony didn't care about Ubisoft or Atlus putting out more games more quickly than WD, but Japanese developers and publishers did. That's why Hoshigami ended up with Atlus; the developers knew of WD's reputation for extreme lateness, and rejected Victor's bid.

I found out about that whole mess through a third party near the end of my WD stint, when the bloom was most definitely off the rose. When you have to find out what your employer is or isn't doing from people outside the company, you've got problems.

And I agree that Sony isn't "evil" for denying Victor's request to ship a butt-ugly Japanese launch title, or for making him bundle Growlanser II and III. In fact, I agreed with both decisions.

But that's the bad stuff. Let's get back to the good stuff.

-- Z.

zmweasel

12-14-2005, 03:10 AM

Damion

12-14-2005, 08:23 AM

Man, I Hope they can get a deal with microsoft. If it wasn't for working designs there would be some really awsome RPGS that I would have missed out on not including Dragon Force Which of course rocks as well.

drwily008

12-14-2005, 11:56 AM

ZMWeasel

Because GameCube third-party titles didn't/don't sell, and there were very few localization-worthy Japanese Xbox games.

Not trying to start an argument or pro-nintendo topic but....Tales of Symphonia sold VERY well. The problem with it was that NAMCO is use to selling double the amount on a game like Tekken or Dead to Rights or anything else like that.

When WD went into business on the TG-16 the game were , even back then, appealing to a small group of niche gamers. Throughout their stay they continued to be an niche company (yet awesome in my opinion).

When the last generation was not netting them as much as the SEGA CD/PS1 era they should have restructure and gottem back to basics.

I guarantee ole Vic would have been very happy with Tales of Symphonia/Resident Evil size sales figures on the proper game which would have appealed to that market (i.e. Gamecube/Nintendo fans).

sabre2922

12-14-2005, 01:12 PM

Another terrible loss for avid gamers and another step toward mediocracy as the norm in todays videogame market :(

WD was all about quality and they put that out in spades even if there games were delayed for years it was all worth it in the end.

I remember picking up the incredible PSX version of LUNAR and was so very impressed at the collection and more importantly the game itself was pure bliss for this old-school gamer after reading about Lunar for all those years and missing out on the SegaCD and Saturn editions.

The more things like this happen the more I start to think about NOT buying into the next gen and just collecting/playing current and retro games and systems for the next 5 years or until there actually IS some type of Videogame industry crash or large shift were the industry is downsized to a point were smaller companies and Developers/publishers can once again flurish and make profit without a company like EA buying them or their franchises out.

PapaStu

12-14-2005, 01:26 PM

As delayed as they were I still really loved all the WD stuff released. Growlancer I bought to buy, but I got it directly thru WD (so I know they got my money) and despite its loose control feeling I really really like GunGriffon Blaze (it did grow on me rather quickly). Its LOADS better than the Tecmo released Xbox sequel (that has a very noticable misspelling in the first level about 2 minutes into the game).

Vic and crew had a knack for what they were doing and worked their asses off to make the games they brought out enjoyable for all who played them. I will truly miss WD and what they brought to American gaming.

Snapple

12-14-2005, 02:23 PM

I actually saw this coming a long way away. I was actually more surprised that they hadn't gone under *yet*. So this isn't really a particularly shocking event for me. But still, sad day for the demise of a great company.

oceanfr

12-14-2005, 05:06 PM

interview http://www.gamespot.com/news/6141225.html

"If I can't guarantee that the games I personally choose for us to release in the US can actually get approved and come out, there's no business to be done." Agreed, read next line! but why........

Last statement: "VI: I want to know more about the Revolution. I also want everyone to write Microsoft and demand their JRPGs!"

lol not writing dont care for that console they got PC use that.

oceanfr

12-14-2005, 05:07 PM

Speaking of which, (and this is relevant to VI's last statement) http://www.xboxcore.com/news/1139.html
"largest retailers in Japan had only ten people waiting in line for the release of the Xbox 360. "

good luck WD on choosing who to publish

zmweasel

12-14-2005, 05:30 PM

Not trying to start an argument or pro-nintendo topic but....Tales of Symphonia sold VERY well. The problem with it was that NAMCO is use to selling double the amount on a game like Tekken or Dead to Rights or anything else like that.

I don't know what you consider to be selling "VERY well," but whatever your definition, it disagrees with mine and with that of the many North American third-party publishers who ditched the GameCube long ago.

And could you point out a GameCube RPG that Victor could have licensed, while convincing the licensor that he wouldn't stiff it like he stiffed SCEI and ESP (which rumor has it are still owed six figures), and quickly establishing a business relationship with Nintendo, and convincing retailers to stock his GameCube title in meaningful numbers, etc., etc.?

Victor couldn't just jump into the GameCube market because there was no market to jump into, and no product to sell in that nonexistent market. He was locked into the PS2.

Vic himself, in a GameSpot interview: "VI: We're a pretty monogamous bunch, and given the Xbox's poor Japanese sales and GameCube's relatively poor sales in the US, there wasn't a practical or attractive alternative."

When WD went into business on the TG-16 the game were , even back then, appealing to a small group of niche gamers. Throughout their stay they continued to be an niche company (yet awesome in my opinion).

No debate there. it's just that the PS1 era provided a brief and magical time when a well-marketed "niche" game could easily sell 50,000 copies or more. Not as big as the boom-days of the NES, but still pretty great.

And, of course, Lunar: SSSC and Alundra were sales aberrations because they were great games. The majority of WD's double-A PlayStation releases (Bandits, Mirage, Gearbolt) sold in the 30K-50K range. That level of sales could've kept 'em humming along in the PS2 era as well, but other factors were at work, as described earlier in this thread.

When the last generation was not netting them as much as the SEGA CD/PS1 era they should have restructure and gottem back to basics.

"Back to basics"? Victor had already laid off almost everyone and moved back into his warehouse "office" by the time Growlanser shipped last year. Other than a couple of legit employees, everyone else toiling for WD was fanboys or family. What "basics" are you referring to?

I guarantee ole Vic would have been very happy with Tales of Symphonia/Resident Evil size sales figures on the proper game which would have appealed to that market (i.e. Gamecube/Nintendo fans).

"Resident Evil size sales figures" for a company that should have gone "back to basics"? Those are wholly incompatible.

Boy, I'm doing a bad job of not talking about the bad stuff.

-- Z.

Haoie

12-14-2005, 06:01 PM

Thank you WD, for making me laugh, cry, and wonder what Nall thinks about dogs in Thai cuisine.

drewbrim

12-14-2005, 07:44 PM

This is truely a shame. Some of my favorite games on my favorite system (Turbo grafx) were published by WD. Cadash and Cosmic Fantasy 2 to name a couple. Anyways although WD is gone let's learn from this unfortunate situation. Is there another company in a similar situation or heading down a similar path that we could support a little better? Too many of the working designs games I've purchased were used, which obviously didn't help their bottom line. The only one I've bought new since the Saturn was Sillouette Mirage. I feel like it's easy for me to complain that they are gone, but yet did nothing to help prevent it. So do any others come to mind? Natsume? NIS? Others?

Tron 2.0

12-15-2005, 03:16 AM

Not from what some of the storys i've herd.

I don't know what "storys" you've "herd," but Victor was like every other human being. He had his good points and his bad points. He did some nice things, and some not-so-nice things. But a lot of the Vic-haters were simply bent out of shape by his straight-shooting 'tude. He was the president of a video game company with the passion of a video game fanboy. Some folks had a very hard time with that.

-- Z.
Love or hate thing with, Vic but i'm not too.. worry about it any more.

When it comes down to it the video game biz is a gamble. You take a risk and see what happens.

Btw these days i'm more bitter towards, SCEA and what games they "aprove" for the U.S ;)

roushimsx

12-16-2005, 10:17 AM

oh hey, I was just reading about this (http://www.livejournal.com/users/ferricide/204521.html) the other day. Funny!

It's cute that the only poeple that are really going to miss Vic's company are the select vocal few he somehow never manged to alienate and piss off with this laughable antics and poor buisness sense.

Kid Ice

12-16-2005, 12:11 PM

oh hey, I was just reading about this (http://www.livejournal.com/users/ferricide/204521.html?view=972009) the other day. Funny!

It's cute that the only poeple that are really going to miss Vic's company are the select vocal few he somehow never manged to alienate and piss off with this laughable antics and poor buisness sense.

I could care less who runs the company. I couldn't even tell you who runs Sega or Sony or Nintendo.

As for this "only people" business, get real. People are mourning all over the place.

As for the article, one of the first things the author says is that WD was not a publisher. And he's flat out WRONG.