Working Designs is finally dead

[roushimsx]

and all I can say is, "THANK GOD".

here's the post from Vic Ireland himself (http://www.workingdesigns.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118916)


First of all, sorry for being incommunicado for such a long time. It's been a busy time, as you'll see.

There's no easy way to say it, so I just will. Working Designs is gone. All the staff has been laid off and the office is closed and has been for some time. Yes, the website is still here, and I am going to do my best to keep it tucked away somewhere on the 'net so it doesn't become an illicit domain. (Of course, some of the haters may be of the mind that it's been illicit all along, heh!).

The most frustrating part of all of this is that I know that our fanbase is still there. Growlanser Generations sold well, but of course not better than it would have sold as two separate titles. We just spent too much time fighting the good fight to even get it out, and other games approved.

Though almost finished and substantially improved from the Japanese release, Goemon is dead for the US, and that was really the final straw. If I can't guarantee that the games I personally choose for us to release in the US can actually get approved and come out, there's no business to be done. There is a possibility that it may be released in Europe (as well as Growlanser Generations), but nothing is finalized yet.

I know many of you will have lots of questions, and there will be some I can answer, and some I can't. Sony has made it clear that they do not want the details of their dealings with any publisher made public. Suffice to say that you would buy what we wanted to sell if we could sell it.

I want to thank each and every one of you personally for being a fan, buying the games we released, and telling your friends. You HAVE made a difference, because you bought the crazy things we did. Thanks to YOU, there are deluxe packs, pack-in soundtracks, better packaging, great hint guides, and better localizations in general. We said it a lot, but it really was true. We were nothing without you.

For the future, there are still great opportunities. I have been in touch with a number of other publishers and manufacturers and I will be working with some of the WD staff to do games for other publishers for the time being, but not as Working Designs. One thing that holds a ton of promise is XBOX 360 RPGs, and I've contacted Microsoft about getting what's underway in Japan out in the US and helping to get more done worldwide. We'll see what happens on that front, but please let them know that YOU WANT MORE JRPGs here. There's some amazing stuff coming for the '360 in Japan, and I know I want it - I think you will, too.

Thanks for everything. It's a tough road ahead for games that aren't of the least-common-denominator variety. The choices you make with your hardware dollars are more important than ever for the generation that is upon us.

With that, I bid all of us...

...Good night, and Good Luck.

Color me happy to see another second rate publisher go down the tubes. Their localizations were second rate, which they tried to compensate with by slapping on some tacky flashy packaging, and you can count the good number of games that they published on one hand, not to mention their overpriced retail cost mixed with Vic's insistance of limiting availability of games and inability to churn out anything on a reliable timeline.

Look, I know it sucks to see a publisher go down because in theory that means that we'll be getting less games, but this is on par with seeing Acclaim tank. Sure, they published a few random good games here and there (hell, Acclaim published Criteron's Burnout 2 and Artdink's No One Can Stop Mr Domino!), but for the most part they raped their licenses and they're better off gone so that someone compentent can handle the games. Afterall, we now have Atlus and Nippon Ichi doing a damned good job of giving us our quirky jrpg fill :)

Now if only someone could take care of XS Games....

[zmweasel]

Color me happy to see another second rate publisher go down the tubes. Their localizations were second rate, which they tried to compensate with by slapping on some tacky flashy packaging, and you can count the good number of games that they published on one hand, not to mention their overpriced retail cost mixed with Vic's insistance of limiting availability of games and inability to churn out anything on a reliable timeline.

Why in the blue hell would you deem Working Designs' localizations "second rate" [sic]? Did the occasional pop-culture reference really bug you *that* much? There was a time when WD's localizations were easily the best in the biz--and even after Atlus and Square Enix caught up, WD continued to do better work than most publishers.

As for the packaging, the vast majority of gamers and role-playing fans ate it up with a spoon, especially the hardcover manuals and fanservice goodies included with the PS1 Lunar remakes.

As for "overpriced retail cost," I assume you mean the deluxe-packaged games, but Victor gave you a hell of a lot more bang for your buck than you're getting from the current crop of $60 "special editions," and as a smaller publisher, he had to make his games stand out. The packaging accomplished that goal.

As for "limiting availability of games," which ones are you talking about, and why do you think WD had the financial resources to keep issuing limited reprints of games that had sold out? (Lunar was a special case, that game being by far the best-selling title in WD's history.) Do you hate Atlus for its equally conservative print runs?

As for the "reliable timeline," how did it ever hurt you when WD pushed back a game six months or nine months or a year?

Your ignorant hatred is appalling.

-- Z.

[Geddon_jt]

I think that's a pretty jaded perspective. The Lunar games alone are among the best and most loved ever released in the US, and we'd never have seen them without WD. WD was not perfect, but I enjoyed the majority of their games on some level.

[Lothars]

I think that's a pretty jaded perspective. The Lunar games alone are among the best and most loved ever released in the US, and we'd never have seen them without WD. WD was not perfect, but I enjoyed the majority of their games on some level.

I agree, The Lunar games are awesome, some really great games

It would be definitly a shame if we didn't get them out here again.

[roushimsx]

I agree, The Lunar games are awesome, some really great games

It would be definitly a shame if we didn't get them out here again.

Working Designs hasn't handled the Lunar license in years and the last two have been regarded as total crap by fans of the series and critics alike. Also, I don't much care for the first two games either.

Working Designs did bring over a small handful of good to great games (like Iron Storm, Sega Ages, Dragon Force, Thunderforce V, Raycrisis, and...woops..named 'em all!), but by and large he gobbled up second rate licenses (Alundra, Elemental Gearbolt, Albert Odyssey, etc etc etc) and/or took a first rate game (Silhouette Mirage) and gave 'em the "working design touch". Nothing like delaying a game for 6 months because you accidentally introduced a difficult to reproduce bug while tinkering with the game's gameplay system and now you have no fucking clue what to do.

Let's not forget that Vic Ireland is an absolute assclown, either. Even the most hardcore fanboy can't argue against that, especially if you or anyone you've known has ever had any buisness dealings with him and/or worked for him.

[Six Switch]

i have never known anyone that hasn't like working designs,and i think everything you said was rather ignorant,and you,the thread started,just made yourself seem like a retard to everyone,awesome.

i am sad to see them go,as they did what they wanted and made games that the hardcore players wanted to play.

[zmweasel]

Working Designs hasn't handled the Lunar license in years and the last two have been regarded as total crap by fans of the series and critics alike. Also, I don't much care for the first two games either.

I don't believe anyone so far in this thread is referring to Ubisoft's Lunar Legend and Lunar: Dragon Song, but WD's SEGA CD and PS1 localizations.

And fans of the series generally prefer the SEGA CD versions (what you call "the first two games"), although the PS1 versions certainly sold much better.


but by and large he gobbled up second rate licenses (Alundra, Elemental Gearbolt, Albert Odyssey, etc etc etc) and/or took a first rate game (Silhouette Mirage) and gave 'em the "working design touch".

Albert Odyssey was an average RPG, but the critics quite rightly disagree with you on Alundra (85% on GameRankings.com) and Elemental Gearbolt (80%).


Nothing like delaying a game for 6 months because you accidentally introduced a difficult to reproduce bug while tinkering with the game's gameplay system and now you have no fucking clue what to do.

Again: how does Working Designs delaying a game affect you in any way, shape, or form?

And why would you be angry because of a bug that cropped up during the reprogramming process because Victor wanted to improve a game for the North American market?


Let's not forget that Vic Ireland is an absolute assclown, either. Even the most hardcore fanboy can't argue against that, especially if you or anyone you've known has ever had any buisness dealings with him and/or worked for him.

While I certainly have my issues with Victor, I'd never classify him as an "assclown." He obviously rubbed you the wrong way, and I'm very curious as to how. What's fueling your misguided rage?

-- Z.

[heybtbm]

I'd take any Working Designs game over the absolute shit (Madden/GTA/thug-gangsta crap) most companies put out these days.

Sad to see them go.

One last note: JRPG's on the 360? Isn't that the very definition of an oxymoron?

[le geek]

Roushimsx,

You sir are a hater. There is nothing more pathetic, than crapping on a dead publisher. You obviously are not a fan of videogames.

Go away and bother someplace else.

Cheers,
Ben

[FantasiaWHT]

I'd take any Working Designs game over the absolute shit (Madden/GTA/thug-gangsta crap) most companies put out these days.



Amen to that.

Don't forget Vanguard Bandits :)

[gepeto]

You can't put working design and acclaim in the same boat.
You have to give credit were credit is due. Acclaim always went for the mainstream releases while working design was supporting the rpg realm long before the genre was popular. I find it hard to believe you as a true rpg player cannot find the true good the working design.

I have never heard a true rpg fan bash working design like you have. I can't even believe you started this post. You sound like a crazed nippon lovin strategy rpg fanboy.

Working design and atlus games have stood the test of time lets see where nippon settles at in a few years. The rpg genre is a small one to boot for you to be happy about losing a publisher is uncomprehensible.
With people like you it is no wonder the industry is at a creative standstill.

I think you did this to start a flame thread.

If it is true it is a sad day for rpg fans,

[Dangerboy]

Owning all but 1 variant of every PSX Working Designs game, whether I wanted to or not, and owning almost their entire catalog on other systems, I can safely say the only assclown here is roushimsx.

Every company has issues; long delays (read: Zelda),
poor marketing choices (konami giving away contra to allapaloosa on psx), not checking difficulty issues (Halo 2 co-op legendary), etc et all.

The difference with WD is that their releases were so focused and few and far between that is was really easy to nit-pick stuff.

Alundra was a GREAT, if hair pulling romp. Elemental Gearbolt to this day still has a high bar set for soundtrack composition and bringing something new to the genre. And on and on and on...

Compare that to releases like Beyond the Beyond and Chronicles of the Sword...I know who I'm supporting.

Second, WD was the true pioneer of the American collector's set. Pre WD, name me one console based game that actually gave you truly something extra? A Gold cart? Whatever. A Music CD? Eh, not bad. WD gave you behind the scenes documentaries, robust music CDs, in Arc's case, almost the entire series, watches, puppets, etc.

Compare that to the recent, almost insulting "Limited Edition" Packages that have flooded the market ($10 more for..a texture?!) and you see what dedication means to pleasing the gamer.

The humor aspect, though sometimes a bit overdone, was also welcome. There were some GREAT lines that would have been lost in a standard translation; something FFVII, Grandia, and both portable UBi Soft Lunars suffer from.

If WD ever had a fault aside from the understandable delays, it was the inconsistancy in variant labelling. But then if it wasn't inconsistant, Game-Rave wouldn't have been formed and Papastu and I might never have hooked up.

And for that, I am very thankful for everything WD did.

PS: XS had a few good games...apparently you don't play much.

[googlefest1]

working designs was great - even though i realy disliked the pop-cultre references they added (which someone mentioned )

sucks to see them go -- mabey they should have tried porting RPGs to the xbox

definitely a sucky day for RPG fans

[VACRMH]

This is a very, very sad day for me. I'd post alot more about it... but i'd rather post it in a journal or something.


Let's not forget that Vic Ireland is an absolute assclown, either. Even the most hardcore fanboy can't argue against that, especially if you or anyone you've known has ever had any buisness dealings with him and/or worked for him.

I can argue with it. I spoke to Vic a few times back in 2001 and 2002. At first I started emailing an employee by the name of Mike, talking about various ideas I had for games. And then he told me to give Vic an email.

His entire message was full of encouragment and praise.

Randomly i'd just email him afterwards with various questions and such... and he was always as friendly as can be.

[Jibbajaba]

I think it's pretty sad that we would celebrate the demise of any gaming developer or publisher here on DP.

Poor form.

Chris

[fishsandwich]

I'm curious... why is this guy an "assclown?"

I don't know anything about the history of Working Designs other than it had a fallout with Sega... something about being given a shitty booth at a trade show maybe?

Someone give me some history here!

I always liked the notes at the end of the instruction books for WD's releases.

Info, please!

:popcorn:

[Daria]

and all I can say is, "THANK GOD"

And a big "FUCK YOU" to you too. Douche.

I could slam my head against the wall just to get through to you the positive effect Working Designs has had on the treatment of Japanese translations over the years. But someone as ignorant and pig headed as yourself will just never get it. You're happier spitting out the same old lame complaints you've read others repeat then to form your own god damn opinions. Baa sheep. Baa.

The only person in the thread (as far as I can tell) who actually knows Victor as a person and not some sort of icon is zmweasel, and so he's the only person qualified to make any sort of jugment on the man's character. But here you are brashly calling the man an assclown as his buisness is going under. What the fuck did he ever do to you?

[goatdan]

This is definitely too bad. I just started to play through some of the Lunar games... I'm doing Lunar Legend on the GBA right now (I know, it's Ubisoft) and I just got Lunar for the Playstation. So far, from looking at Lunar PSX and playing Lunar Legend, I have really enjoyed them so far. I was actually planning on trying to pick up more in the next few months. It's too bad it looks like nothing else will be coming out.

And please, even though I understand a lot of people didn't like Acclaim, don't celebrate their death either. No matter what, every game company makes entries that are at least decent sometimes. I can name a good number of Acclaim games that I really enjoyed. I'm sure that now that I'm finally playing them, I'll have many Working Designs games that I enjoy too.

[shaggy]

This is definitely too bad. I just started to play through some of the Lunar games... I'm doing Lunar Legend on the GBA right now (I know, it's Ubisoft) and I just got Lunar for the Playstation. So far, from looking at Lunar PSX and playing Lunar Legend, I have really enjoyed them so far. I was actually planning on trying to pick up more in the next few months. It's too bad it looks like nothing else will be coming out.

And please, even though I understand a lot of people didn't like Acclaim, don't celebrate their death either. No matter what, every game company makes entries that are at least decent sometimes. I can name a good number of Acclaim games that I really enjoyed. I'm sure that now that I'm finally playing them, I'll have many Working Designs games that I enjoy too.

It's sad to see Working Designs go. :( I loved all there RPG's especially the ones for the Sega CD system. They were awesome games. And as Dan said Acclaim had some awesome games. The Wizard and Warriors series come to mind (which they need to bring back!). I really wish Working Designs didn't go.

[Xexyz]

My only beef with WD releases are the added dialouge in the RPG's. The pop referances, and extra humor were overdone, but that's just a small gripe. WD at least published some cool games, especially RPG's we would have never seen otherwise (unless maybe Atlus picked them up instead). And RayCrisis, one of their strong titles? That is to laugh. That was probably one of the bad releases from WD. RayCrisis was a total piece of ****. Taito should have ended the Ray series after RayStorm.

[rbudrick]

I don't think I have ever once see someone say something bad about Working Designs before, so I'm rather surprised. They were a truly excellent company.

It is a sad day indeed.

-Rob

[Ed Oscuro]

For my part, I can understand how Roushimsx might think that he'd find an ear with WD-bashing. Perhaps he didn't take it to heart. Possibilities. There definitely needs to be a change of heart here.

Victor Ireland's services will be in need for a long time. It's not just game translations/localization that sucks, but a lot of domestically-brewed stuff stinks as well. Hmpf.

Well, I think I'll send Mr. Ireland an email of condolences, and I hope (and am pretty confident) he'll be able to move forward.

[zmweasel]

The only person in the thread (as far as I can tell) who actually knows Victor as a person and not some sort of icon is zmweasel, and so he's the only person qualified to make any sort of jugment on the man's character.

I think Victor is a very decent fellow. He did many nice things for me, and for others. His ego swelled a bit--okay, a lot--during the height of WD's PlayStation-fueled financial success, but mine did, too. Hell, for one month, Lunar: SSSC was the best-selling PlayStation game in North America. I'm still amazed by that, and I'm still damn proud of that.

Alas, there some people in these forums who think I'm a complete bastard for the same reasons some people hate on Victor (we dare to speak our minds), so I'm not doing Victor any favors by vouching for his character.

I had some conflicts with Victor after my unpretty departure from WD, but all I want to think about at this point are the many great and/or hilarious experiences I had with him and his company during my tour of duty. He gave me the most interesting three years of my life.

I hope Victor lets me register for the WD forums, so I can start a thread of amusing anecdotes that hardcore fans might appreciate. I'd try to get some other former employees to chime in, too.

-- Z.

[Amankhan]

A lot of modern video game companies could learn a thing or two from WD about what to include in a special edition/collector's edition of a game.

I've bought numerous "collector's editions" of games in the last few years that can't hold a candle to what WD used to offer. And that's even with me buying most of WD games used. Growlanser Generations is the only WD game I've had the pleasure of buying brand new.

They will be missed. After playing many of their games in the last year or so, I've come to appreciate that if WD didn't bring these games over here I might not have ever played them. I once thought WD was the devil, but after playing the games they published & actually enjoying them, I'd be lying to myself if I said I was glad they were gone. I'm not, and in fact, I was not happy to hear they had shut down.

Looks like now is the perfect time to play Growlanser Generations again.

[MegaDrive20XX]

I will miss you Working Designs. "Are games go to 11!" will be written on your tombstone..

I stuck with you when Arc the Lad Collection was delayed for so friggin long....even my best friend waited so long for Growlanser...Yet we still collected your games without any complaints...

You will forever be remembered for Lunar however. Yet you do so much more for Saturn, PSX, and Sega CD days.

You ended up being a collector's paradise with the variants and taunted us all with the different designs.

Tacky Flashing packaging? No, that was pride put into their bundles....No other company in America had the balls to give us a that much for the cost of their games. To at least give us that Japanese experience of what they get with the purchase of a "Limited Edition" set. Since most American games during the 90's never had much of a royal treatment such as Working Designs offered.

And I'm shocked that most of you talk bad about Working Designs, when I know some of you here had played their games for weeks to months, finished it and then loved it!

Have you no shame? This was a respected company! Not Acclaim! Plus how can you compare WORKING DESIGNS to such a shitty company like Accliam!

Give me a break people! Working Designs tried hard to please everyone, but couldn't deliver the goods since the games were so limited in quanity! Yet gives you no right to slap them around even in death!

[DreamTR]

This is the most ridiculous post I have ever seen.

Why would ANYONE be happy that Working Designs is gone unless they have a personal grudge? Anyone with half a brain should see the bigger picture and realize that the days of smaller companies in the UNited States making games is basically gone.

We are LUCKY that some companies are still around with staffs of less than 5. The problem is, most people are so unappreciative of what smaller companies are trying to bring out for the people that they fail to realize all of their bitching has just made larger companies that I will not mention, churn out the same 'ol recycled crap day in and day out. Is this what everyone wants? It costs MILLIONS of dollars now to produce games. It's not like the old days where companies like Data East and SOFEL and Taxan and SunSoft were all over the place making titles.

Great, I can't wait to play some more 360 and PS3 games by the same 4 companies in the industry. Wow. Now we can all be happy, right? Ignorance personified.

[s1lence]

I'm surprised that EA didn't try to buy them up. Oh wait, Working Designs made quality games, something EA has forgotten.

Sad news......:(

[Blanka789]

Truly a sad day indeed. Without Lunar and Final Fantasy during the 16-bit era, I probably wouldn't be hooked on video games.

Also, it is wrong to celebrate the death of any publisher, as stated before, even Acclaim made some good games.

Rest in Peace WD.

[KingCobra]

Working designs is gone now!? :o all the older componies are dropping like flies since the new Millennium.

[Ed Oscuro]

Anyone with half a brain should see the bigger picture and realize that the days of smaller companies in the United States making games is basically gone.
Sadly so.

[RCM]

I can't say i'm too upset. I really wasn't into any of their stuff. I know RPG's were their bread and butter and all, i'm not a fan of the genre.

I do respect their achievements and it's always sad when a respectable publisher goes under. The most shocking thing about this announcment is that the end didn't come sooner.

As for the Vic Ireland love/bashing, I don't know him but he sure seems like an asshole. He can't be all bad though, he made great contributions to gaming!

RIP WD

[dreams]

There is another topic in Modern Gaming about the same subject. Seeing as that one doesn't have all the drama that's going on here, I'm going to close this one up. Please continue the discussion here:

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=76270