Has rare really lost its touch?

[gepeto]

Has rare really lost its touch?
This was a statement in one of the magazines I was reading that was dissapointed with Rares latest offering.

I feel really bad for Rare because it seems like they are a victim of there own sucess. Every article I seem to read about the Company bashes the company like they are throwing out crap like Drake of the 99 dragons.

I am starting to think that there is a serious conspiracy against them. It seemed like I was the only one who liked Grabbed by the Ghoulies. I understood it was a game directed at young kids and I took it as that. Conker was conker.

I haven't really followed a reviewers advice for over 8 years. I play the game then make up my mind but reading the magazines the biased review bashings are just starting to get to me. For instance 90% of the magazines I read gave madden 06 and live 06 for the 360 scores between 7.5 -9.0
Clearly when any other publisher release a game missing the features that were excluded would have received 5.0-7.0
The Nba 2k xbox360 series also gets bashed (I feel underservingly) I played it. It is definately better than a 6.0.

I just hate having to spend alot of time disecting what I read shuffling through the smoke just to get to the truth.

I just don't think Rare's games are all that bad. Was Rare only being held up by Nintendo Fanboys?

One quick rant. It has been a few years since halo came out. You mean to tell me out of all the Fps that have came out noting beats it or comes close to? Conspiracy or fact.
Magazine often talk about great AI. How do you determing great AI? One shot kills? Difficulty cranked up like ninja gaiden black? Sorry for the rant.

[n8littlefield]

I think they have lost their touch for the quality they used to be capable of. While I wouldn't say they are a bad developer, they don't live up to the reputation they once had (or the price they were bought for).

I think the main reason is the fact they lost alot of people since the N64 days - especially the group that split off to form Free Radical. I would say Timesplitters is more fun that any of Rare's latest offerings - kind of shows where their talent went...

[njiska]

In word. No. Rare hasn't lost their touch, the problem is that their touch is only applicable to the N64 era and that ship has long since sailed.

PDZ in the n64 era would've been great. Today it's shit.

[Leo_A]

I'd go as far to say that they weren't even that great during the N64 era.

[n8littlefield]

I'd go as far to say that they weren't even that great during the N64 era.

Truthfully, I woudn't know - I never played an N64 - but I've heard that Goldeneye and Banjo Kazoiee were pretty much must play games in their genres... I went Genesis to PS1, so I never played the 64...

[googlefest1]

im just going to say one thing -- where the F is a perfect port of KI - im pissed at them just becasue of that (i dont care about the market demand for the game - i want it )

[Bluteg]

If I was Microsoft I'd ask for a refund.

[heybtbm]

I'd go as far to say that they weren't even that great during the N64 era.

I'll second that.

[dbiersdorf]

Hmm... they aren't a bad developer per se, they just went from great to good/mediocre. Here is how I feel about the games they've made post-N64.

Star Fox Adventures - Meh, great visuals, but very cliché.
Grabbed by the Ghoulies - Basic and fairly boring.
Conker's Live and Reloaded - Amazing visuals, best on the Xbox, great single player, butchered multiplayer.
Kameo: Elements of Power - Fun, but basic, certainly seems rushed to launch.
Perfect Dark Zero - Haven't played. :(

So I'd say while they have some moments in there, none of it really reaches the magnitude of that on the N64. Banjo-Kazooie IMO edges out Super Mario 64 as the best platformer ever. Conker's Bad Fur Day is also one of the greatest gaming moments in history. Blast Corps, Diddy Kong Racing, Banjo-Tooie, and GoldenEye also come to mind as some other very high quality games.

I think Rare was the defining point of the Nintendo 64, and without them it would have failed, however now in days there talent has slipped. But I don't think it's necessarily their fault. The Xbox userbase is extremely different to that of Nintendo's and Rare was right up there with "kiddy games" next to Nintendo themselves. When they got thrown onto the Xbox they were left to go out of their comfort zone and make more violent games. Kameo is a perferct example of this, had that come out on the GameCube (or Revolution, whatever) it would never look like that. It would have received an Everyone ESRB rating, not a Teen, and probably would have had some Nintendo flare.

However I do feel Rare is doing an excellent job on the GBA, however odd that may be, Grunty's Revenge, Sabre Wulf, Banjo-Pilot, and It's Mr. Pants are all fantastic titles IMO.

[PapaStu]

I personally loved Grabbed By The Ghoulies. Its got enough injokes and all that other nonsense that made Rare, Rare. I like the Multi-player aspect of Conkers Live and Reloaded, but still dont understand why they dumbed down the stuff that Nintendo allowed for the N64 version of the game. Kameo has been a LOOOOONG time coming and I think they started to get it right with its current state, but being flipped to a X360 launch did two things, one allowed for great sales (not much else to get, so its a very probable purchase) and it finally forced the game out since it went from basically being a N64 launch title to a Xbox title years in the making to a X360 release. I've not touched PD0 yet so I really cant say all that much about it. I'm sure i'll like it, I tend to like most shooters and Rare has never let me down with a shooter before.

Their one true issue is that they push back ,push back, push back... EVERYTHING they do, it just kills the buzz it would have for the games and makes people nit-pick them even more when they see a flaw because all those delays 'should' have fixed those issues, which if they were around for a slightly rushed version they'd be 'understood'.

[Crazycarl]

Its pretty much true what people have been saying. I think the best game they did was Jet Force Gemini. It's just they are trying the same tricks that they did during the N64 era, that don't work now. Especially graphics wise, and story telling. Hopefully this will change, and Rare won't go the way of the Dodo, i like the company a lot.

p.s. Isn't if funny how you can tell a rare game, no matter which game, at first look with out seeing their logo.

[cyberfluxor]

I like rare. They are a pretty cool company with what they have come out with. Conker and Diddy Kong Racing are among my favorite. I have yet to play the Banjo games, but once I see their prices go down a bit more around here, I'll get them.

[unwinddesign]

Rare is far and away my favorite developer of all time. Have they sucked in the past 5 years? Yes. They've been crap. Are the 360 titles good benchmarks of what they can do? No. Perfect Dark Zero isn't that hot, nor is (from what I've heard) Kameo. PDZ plays like Goldeneye. That's actually awesome, but unfortunately, they threw in some crappy stealth elements that straight up don't work. I've lost interest on the 4th level, much like I did in the original PD.

Donkey Kong Country, Banjo Kazooie, Diddy Kong Racing -- those are some kick ass titles. Waaaaaay underrated, and never mentioned in any best of features, but definately much better than Mario (DKC), Super Mario 64 (BK) and Mario Kart (DKR).

Ah well. I'm still holding out for a Banjo Kazooie 3 of sorts, even though number two let me down. I'll be a Rare fan 'til the day they're shut down, if ever there is one.

[Johnny_Rock]

PDZ in the n64 era would've been great. Today it's shit.

Quoted for truth.

I mean realy what arcade style FPS dosent have a jump button?

[squidblatt]

Grabbed by the Ghoulies is one of my favorite games on the Xbox, and I thought Starfox Adventures would've been great if they has left it as Dinosaur Planet.

They made RC Pro Am, right? They still have a few years of cred left with me for that alone.

[grayrobertos]

I personaly believe that, nintendo helped rare with alot of there games, and if a game wasn't ready it just didn't come out. That doesnt seem to be the case and maybe the increased microsoft pressure is effecting the teams creating the games.

I really would like to know the names of people who made pdz who where part of the original perfect dark team. Who has gone etc. Or even where the ideas are coming from.

I do think that there is a chance that the switch from cube to xbox completely messed the company up. Trying to learn new techniques quickly port games over etc and not really thinking about the target audience of the xbox. If the next rare game to come out is a badden I think its all over for there status as a quality company.

[Bluteg]

Much of the original Goldeneye team went on to make to make the Timesplitters series. Timespilliters 2, I've yet to play the third one definately feels more like Goldeneye than PDZ and thats in a very good way. Perfect Dark is an attempt to repeat Goldeneye and PDZ is an attempt to repeat the success of Perfect Dark. A clone of a clone is never a good idea.

[swlovinist]

Rare, the great company that they were, is gone. Microsoft SHOULD ask for a refund. Of the last five games they have produced, only one(Kameo) is what I would consider to be decent and above average. PDZ is average at best, but with some serious multiplayer flaws that just make it feel outdated. This saddens me, as I am a huge N64 fan and really hoped for more from them. If you ask me, Microsoft got the short end of the stick for the company.

[Lothars]

I'd go as far to say that they weren't even that great during the N64 era.

I disagree

I still think to this day that Perfect Dark is one of the best multiplayer games released. IMO better than halo, halo 2 or any other FPS released.

the only one that can compare to it is Goldeneye.

[Biff_McFresh]

Perfect Dark= Masterpiece
Perfect Dark Zero= Decent :\ (so disappointing)

In that regard, yes.

Still a quality developer to keep a lookout for? Indeed, I'd say so.

[hezeuschrist]

PDZ in the n64 era would've been great. Today it's shit.

Quoted for truth.

I mean realy what arcade style FPS dosent have a jump button?

The kind you've probably never played.

Honestly, there are plenty of reasons to dislike PDZ, and this is not one of them. Whats the point of jumping in an FPS game when you can't aim when you're jumping? Unless you're a super human and stay in the air for an absurdly long period of time (like halo), it's useless.

The game is not Halo, it never was, and it never will be. If you want to play Halo, play Halo. In it's own right, PDZ is a great game. If you choose to ignore that because it isn't something it isn't trying to be, that's your loss.

As for the developer, both PDZ and Kameo are a large step up from their offerings in the GC/Xbox generation. Both are far more fun than I had expected them to be based on the lackluster showing in recent years. If you don't expect a godlike offering from someone who was once excellent, you won't be disappointed.

[Johnny_Rock]

Id like it to be know by all that i hate Halo. and that when i post im usealy on something or drinking. that is all.

[njiska]

Something about PDZ being good.

Yeah PDZ is a step up in some ways, but it's a huge stumble in others.

For example movement in MP is just fucking awful, the cover system is broken because you have to spend to damn much standing still before you can enter cover. The armor system makes no sense (i shoot some one in the head but they lose chest armor?) and the aiming is fucking hard.

The games has serious issues that hold it back and the things that advance the genre like cover aren't executed properly. These things are so simple that they are not forgiveable.

Jumping is irrelevant but the other issues are important. It's not Halo and i never expected it to be, but what expect was a game that isn't broken and PDZ is.

[hezeuschrist]

Something about PDZ being good.

Yeah PDZ is a step up in some ways, but it's a huge stumble in others.

For example movement in MP is just fucking awful, the cover system is broken because you have to spend to damn much standing still before you can enter cover. The armor system makes no sense (i shoot some one in the head but they lose chest armor?) and the aiming is fucking hard.

The games has serious issues that hold it back and the things that advance the genre like cover aren't executed properly. These things are so simple that they are not forgiveable.

Jumping is irrelevant but the other issues are important. It's not Halo and i never expected it to be, but what expect was a game that isn't broken and PDZ is.

I agree with all those points. It certainly had the potential to be the next amazing launch title for MS, but there were just a few things they needed to polish before launch. I'd rather have the game released now with better auto aim than forcing precision on my right thumb that I simply don't have.

But even with those flaws, after you get past the first couple levels it's really hard to notice them unless you're intentionally annoyed by them all the time instead of just enjoying the game.

You can bet your ass the 360 will see another Perfect Dark game at some point and all of these widely criticized issues will be corrected and make for an absolutely astounding experience.

[sabre2922]

As long as they give me a new Killer Instinct before the next ice age all will be forgiven :D

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/weblogs/upload/50/188693877543a311c5b0723.jpg

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/weblogs/upload/50/114854052043a311e8a6aea.jpg

This now classic arcade fighter could FINALLY be fully realized with the 360s capabilities and easily match these incredible 10 year old CG renderings IN GAME with better textures etc.

CMON RARE WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS NOW-especially the 360-IS A NEW FULLY 3-D KILLER INSTINCT to kick ass and take names ...or is it chew bubble gum? whatever.

[Ed Oscuro]

As long as they give me a new Killer Instinct before the next ice age all will be forgiven :D
Not likely, but we can hope.

Goldeneye wasn't as perfect, looking back, as people thought...but it was VERY close. Even today, I'd say it's an easy 9+ on the 0-10 scale if you can get past the slowdown. Most of its problems were technical, a result of the console's abilities. Never seen Conker, so I know I'm missing out on a lot.

Diddy Kong Racing? I don't recall it being the most amazing thing ever when I played it...but it's been too long. Mostly slow, I think.

[Graham Mitchell]

I liked their N64 games, but nothing can compare to their NES games. That's because they had a leg up that no other developer had. They were one of the first non-Japanese developers that Nintendo would allow to make famicom/NES games. The only way that Yamauchi would allow them to develop for the famicom is if they figured it out on their own, with no access to existing development libraries. In doing that, they discovered a bunch of tricks for pushing the machine that other developers hadn't thought of. As such their NES games (even the bad ones) were always a cut above everybody else's.

But once the 16-bit era hit, they were basically on equal ground with everyone else because they never had to reverse engineer a Genesis to figure out how to program for it. I remember renting Super Battletoads, expecting it to blow me away. Needless to say, it didn't.

They got lucky with Goldeneye, as the FPS genre was just starting to get hot, and the game was the best of its kind on the N64 at that time. They've had some other good games, but I don't think there's anything magical about them anymore. They're going to have just as many hits and misses as any other developer.

[Kamino]

IMO they totally lost it. But IMO they were always a bit scattershot....

[badinsults]

Man, nothing was more classic than playing multiplayer Goldeneye. Also, Donkey Kong Country 2 was one of the greatest platformers ever. Star Fox Adventures looked like a bore fest (my brother never even got half through). Really, they can't expect people to wait around while they delay games by an entire generation, and then when they are released turn out to be rushed out.

That being said, if they redid Goldeneye for the DS, I would buy a DS. Please make it true, Rare!

[sabre2922]

I have to state that I was always impresssed with the RARE games on the older Nintendo systems.

My first experience at playing an excellent RARE game was of course the excellent R.C. pro am and my STILL FAVORITE home console pinball game PINBOT damn I luved that game.

After that they had a great run on the SNES and even better one on the N64 wich IMO would have done a lot worse in the market if it werent for RAREs excellent AAA game support for the "cartridge challenged" system.

So far they have done little to validate all the money Microsoft has put into both acquiring RARE and supporting them thus far.

There games on Xbox 1 were OK but not near the quality of the good ol N64 days and even after all the years in development perfect dark zero-while a good game- wasnt the "HALO" that the Xbox360 needed it to be.

Of course one must take into account the fact that most of the programmers and graphic artists that worked at RARE back in the N64 days are no longer present and I believe that there greatest talents were lost in the transition within the past few years wich helps to explain how a once great and talented develoment team has become merely good or slightly above average so far with its Xbox 1 and Xbox360 releases.

I have never thought that RARE was above the production and development skills that companies and teams like those at Capcom and Konami posses wich IMO are the greatest two development houses in this industry and have been for the last 2 decades

I do think that RARE still has the capability to create more AAA games but maybe not of the calibur that they once were capable of.

Call me what you will but I really believe that a new Killer Instinct on the 360 could be just what the doctor ordered for both Microsoft and RARE in the upcoming next generation race.

[Sam]

I'm glad people finally mentioned the NES on page two of this topic. Snake Rattle n' Roll for example is graphically stunning, has fantastic music and very imaginative gameplay and is still my favourite game today. Cobra Triangle, RC Pro AM, Battletoads, Iron Sword, Solar Jetman, Digger T Rock ect are all brilliant titles for the NES developed by Rare. They also were a very popular developer before they were Rare back in the Days of Ultimate entertainment. Another all time favorite is Monster Max on the Gameboy. I know a lot of you know this but it always seems there are a few that wern't aware how fantastic the company was pre-goldeneye.

That said they also made some of the worst games for the system. None of their games on the N64 were bad really so now everytime the developer churns something out that isn;t life changing they get bagged for it.

I havn't played the Xbox 360 games yet - will still be a while before the machine is released here but my flatmates and I absoluty love Grabbed by the Ghoulies. It diesn't redefine gaming but it's a hell of a laugh to play through. Dinosaur Planet suffered though from the transition from one generation to another which is likely to be the case with the 360 games, maybe we will see how much magic the company has left when they make a current gen title from scratch?

Oh the dude that liked Pinbot - have you tried the prequel of sorts, High Speed also on NES?