Is Retro Gamer Magazine Back?

[boatofcar]

Anybody know anything about this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/RETRO-GAMER-MAGAZINE-ISSUE-19-RELAUNCH-SEGA-ATARI_W0QQitemZ6995359313QQcategoryZ64800QQssPageN ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Melf]

Yep. Issue #20 just arrived, and the U.S. should be getting #19 any time now.

[poe]

The picture on that auction listing has no cover disc. Did the new publisher get rid of that? I remember the publisher (can't recall the name) was credited for a couple other PC magazines with coverdiscs, so I was sure that'd be consistent.

[Melf]

Nope, the new RG doesn't have the cover disc anymore. I haven't seen #19 yet, but it sure as hell better not cost $13 here without the disc.

[Julio III]

Its a new publisher
Also a new editor, the guy who was in charge of the retro section in GamesTM, i know he posts on some message boards but i dont think here.

So the magazine is back and trying to be like before but also a bit different and better, and no cover disc, which means a cheaper price. I've picked up this new issue 19, but haven't read it yet :/

Oh yeah, and there's also RetroSurvival which is a CD you can order on the internet which has all the articles which were going to be on the original issue 19 and more, which Mayhem here can tell u more about

[chaoticjelly]

Yeah, the guy whos editor is called "Strider"

Personally I was let down by the magazine - lots of old computers again.. not my cup of tea.

Think I'll ebay my issue now! Didnt realise people would pay the brand new price on eBay!

I wrote the new RetroGamer a letter, but they never bothered to reply..

When the old one went bust they owed me about 16 issues!

*sob*

[boatofcar]

Yeah, the guy whos editor is called "Strider"

Personally I was let down by the magazine - lots of old computers again.. not my cup of tea.



Yes! Just what I wanted to hear! I don't want to read the upteenth "new" article on the SNES or Genesis.

[tom]

Also remember that during the 80s, UK didn't 'have' 2600, Intellivision, Coleco as such (they were available, but expensive), as British were poor and had to put up with a Computer called 'Spectrum' and tape-games. Games came on tape for 1.99, or 2.99, or as 'high' as 5.99 UKpounds. VCS games were as high as 29.99 UKpounds. Later, NES games were as high as 50.00 UKpounds !!!

What is the parent going to buy for their kids for Xmas? Exactly...

That is also why the C-64 was popular in the UK with tape games, as FDDs were mostly out of kiddies purse reach.

Anyway, thanks for the link, I got the mag and I will see how it is. I got all 18 'original' Retro Gamer, and they were awful most of the time.

[Mayhem]

We had an Atari 2600 in our house :D

But we sold the NES after a year or so because, as you said, the games were just too expensive.

[Griking]

Personally I was let down by the magazine - lots of old computers again.. not my cup of tea.

PErsonally I love the idea of a retro computer gaming magazine. The only thing about it I didn't care for was that it was mostly all European computers. But I suppose that's to be expected since it was a U.K magazine I believe.

Dammit, why do people always post links that screw up the dimensions of the page. Embed your URL tags people, PLEASE!

It works like this;

Type description of link ( (enter web address) )

[Mayhem]

I often wonder if I'm an enigma when it comes to enjoying, discussing and collecting video games in the UK then; someone who loves both computers AND consoles, who grew up playing both and enjoying them equally.

It seems most people either fall into the computer or console category, not both.

Actually I can think of one other person, Jon Legg for sure collects stuff for both sides :)

[Fanboy]

While I cannot comment on the quality of the content within, as I haven't read it yet, I can certainly comment on the fact that the newly relaunched, cover-disc-less Retro Gamer costs an extra $3.50!!! WTF?! @_@

I feel like a tool for having bought it -- I mean, $16.50 for a monthly magazine?! Does Bonny Prince Chuck swim them over here individually?

It better blow my friggin' mind for that price, or my commitment to the relaunched magazine will be a very short one.

[Mayhem]

Is this actually how it is priced on the shelf in the store in question? I guess they might be marking it up a bit... if you subscribe through Imagine's website it works out to be just over $10 per issue to the US.

[googlefest1]

is this the mag ? http://www.retrogamer.net/flashindex.html
i just want to be sure

does any one in the US have a subscription to this that can tell me if the subscription price of 36 pounds covers the shipping price also?

[tom]

I just received issue 19.
Mmmmhh, still thinking about the quality and reviews and such.
Whilst Super Metroid, Perfect Dark and the Larry games make great reading, another 234 pages of 'how great the awful Spectrum and that terrible Jet Set Willy was', is not....

Man, I grew up with great games like 'Necromancer', 'Blue Max', 'Preppie', 'Wizard's Crown' but UK gamers used cassette tape games during the 80s (I lived in UK from 1987 - 2004).

[idrougge]

It's back, and it's as awful as usual. No wonder really, they're relaunching the magazine, and since it's a "new" magazine, they have an excuse for writing about the same games all over again.
I could write an essay about what's wrong with Retro gamer, but I don't feel like it tonight.
Still, as a magazine editor myself, I know that working in a commercial venture means you cannot make a magazine tailor-made for *me*, but then again, that means that I don't have to read it. Yet, the name of the magazine has on several occasions fooled me into believing that it's meant for me.

I'm a bit surprised to see that the new editor comes from Games TM, since their retro section was actually a lot better than RG, new or old.

[Mayhem]

Well, explain why it's "awful", and then we can do something about trying to change that :P

Though the magazine is always going to not agree with everyone at some point, simply because there's so much to cover.

Anyhow, issue #19 only had two weeks to be put together due to deadlines, likewise with issue #20. The next issue will be the first one with a full 4 weeks production time allocated to it.

[tom]

Okay, I would like more professionalism for a start.
For example, in an older issue of RG, when reviewing the ‘make your own game’ software, don’t miss out half of what’s out there. I mean there was no mention of Adventure Construction Set (EA), Steve Kitchen’s Game Maker (Activision), Arcade Construction Kit (Broderbund), The Slave and so forth.

Another article, Repton, said games of the 80s had no editor. Untrue, many had editors, Lode Runner, Boulderdash, Fast Tracks, to name a few.

Also, they always mention England was first with this and that….isometric, multi-screen or whatever. In the 80s, UK copied USA and Japan’s gaming industry, they did not innovate. If Ant Attack was a first real home computer isometric game, prove it that Crystal Castles on VCS or Zaxxon on Coleco wasn’t earlier.

Less on Spectrum, that machine (I cannot call it a computer) always was and today still is, AWFUL. IT WAS A JOKE!!! I mean, the world had Apples, C-64s or XLs, and UK had….Spectrum, nasty.
Get away from these terrible tape games, review disc games, features on (as already mentioned in RG) Wizardry (RG called it a niche game, which is naturally wrong, the series was a big seller on Apple computers and PC), Ultima series on C-64, Lucasfilm games on C-64 (the most excellent Zak McKraken), SSI on XL or C-64 (And don’t tell me that the games weren’t easy to come by, I managed to buy them in my local computer shop in Bournemouth on disc for my C-128 or Atari XE. My 1989 Software Link catalogue (UK software distribution chain) lists 1000s of disc based game for XL, C-64, and any UK computer shop could stock them).

No more Jet Set Willy, read the real review in Page 6 (longest running single computer magazine in the UK (Atari XL 1983 – 1997), maybe the world), how awful that game really is (was).

Also some articles on consoles would be nice. Do they know that there were consoles besides VCS, SNES, PS? Do something on Intellivision, Coleco, Vectrex, SMS, after all they were sold in the UK, and the SMS was quite big in the UK, generating it’s own SMS magazine.

I mean, towards the end RG became a bit better, so maybe there’s hope for RG Mark 2 yet.

[boatofcar]

Okay, I would like more professionalism for a start.
For example, in an older issue of RG, when reviewing the ‘make your own game’ software, don’t miss out half of what’s out there. I mean there was no mention of Adventure Construction Set (EA), Steve Kitchen’s Game Maker (Activision), Arcade Construction Kit (Broderbund), The Slave and so forth.

Another article, Repton, said games of the 80s had no editor. Untrue, many had editors, Lode Runner, Boulderdash, Fast Tracks, to name a few.

<snip>



Obviously the best thing for you to do is not read the magazine.

I love the coverage of the Spectrum, along with the BBC Micro, and all the other systems that never saw the light of day in the States. Just because you think the system sucks doesn't mean it's not worthy of covering; after all, by today's standards, all classic systems "suck."

Ant Attack was the first original home computer isometric game. Zaxxon and Crystal Castles are ports. I for one would rather read about original games (of which computers have a multitude of) than arcade ports.

I don't know why you think that RG never covered consoles. They've had excellent coverage of many consoles, including a wonderful expose of the Sega CD and Game Gear, as well as a Lynx article that had stuff in it I'd never heard before.

I'm not sure what you mean about the lack of professionalism, but if RG doesn't have it, I sure as hell don't want it.

[Mayhem]

I think Tom was making the point that Zaxxon and Crystal Castles were isometric before Ant Attack in general, but there's hardly the comparison when Zaxxon scrolls in one direction only, and Crystal Castles is a static screen.

Ant Attack was the first proper isometric adventure game, that scrolled in all directions. Knightlore just came after and improved on it a lot ;)

There will be more console converage in new RG over time, Darran (the ed) is looking to make things a lot more balanced than before.

As for the Speccy, well UK based mag, mostly UK based writers. Hence it's always going to be a fairly major interest and computer because of the user base.

Yes there were lots of good disk based games, but even at the height of its popularity, only 10% of C64 owners in the UK had a disk drive (due to stupid price Commodore charged for it). Hence 90% of users were "stuck" playing from tape. THAT'S why the emphasis towards games on that format exists. Your shop was very good at stocking things and must have had a decenn turnover on them. Usually if I wanted a disk game for the C64, I had to ASK my shop to especially order it in for me. They wouldn't take the risk of buying stock and then not having it sell.

Wizardry was a niche game in THIS country... you have to keep remembering a lot of this opinion and looking at stuff is from a UK perspective. I had never heard of the series until the 90s myself. The only Wizardry I knew was the game released by The Edge (called Spell of Destruction in the US).

Coleco and Intellivision were tiny user bases in the UK, especially compared to the 2600. Having said that, console gaming never took off in the UK properly until the Megadrive, and then the SNES. It was always computers up until that point mainly due to price (both of the machine and the games... 40 quid for NES titles was a lot back in 1987!) and availability.

I'll agree the SMS was popular. It certainly has a lot more titles available here than the US got! As for the Vectrex, well there would have been something on it had the old RG survived; I'd write a piece for the defunct issue #19 and it now is available on the Retro Survival CD instead. It may get "bought" to be printed in new RG but we'll have to see.

Finally... regarding factual errors and/or omissions. Writers are human. They can't get everything right, nor know everything to write about on a subject. Having said that, research is key and having the broadest knowledge of things is always going to be of use. I'd say mine has come a long way since joining this place back in 2000. I know Darran has issued a directive to improve things on that front, so hopefully it will reduce over time.

[idrougge]

Well, explain why it's "awful", and then we can do something about trying to change that :P

Is it your mag or something?

Well, let's make a list.
For a start, I second Tom's request for professionalism. There are too many factual errors which probably stem from what I call Wiki/Google journalism. The Internet has made it too easy to do tendentious journalism, since anything from spelling to encyclopædic knowledge has no longer to reside inside the writer's head. Unfortunately, that means that if you don't have a critical view of your sources, you're bound to repeat urban legends, just like a spell checker won't tell you the difference between "their" and "they're".
Sometimes, it seems that the editor doesn't care enough about continuity. Two articles in the magazine may state total opposite views. This is not bad per se, if it is made clear that the article is opinion or if it is a column. But if it is seen as representing not only the view of the writer, but also as representing the mag as a whole, it is a bad thing.
Also, I find the layout very uninspired, settling for the current global standard for how a gaming mag is supposed to look. The layout doesn't seem thought-out, and there is little dynamicism in the pages. The art director also needs proper stuff to work with; I want less low-res JPEGs (This is something I've hated with Games TM; if I want to look at blocky pictures with JPEG artifacts, I look at my screen. I certainly don't want to waste trees and hard-earned cash on it.) and more good photographs.
Those are some of the technical issues.

As for the content, I want less coverage of next-gen games. This goes both for systems which some classify as retro but I don't (N64, DC, PSX) and for retro compilations. It's not that I don't think that retro compilations don't deserve to be reviewed, but they shouldn't dominate the reviews like they do now. Why don't you actually review the games which the magazine is supposed to cover? Why not do regular reviews of Platoon, The Super Shinobi or I Ball?
On the other hand, I know that the name of the mag is *Retro* Gamer, but do all games have to be old? There are a lot new games being made, but they're usually just given a cursory glance in the rear end of the mag, whereas mobile phone conversions of old games are met with much more enthusiasm. It seems as though RG doesn't really get in touch with the communities which care for the systems. Perhaps it stems from RG being from the UK, where mags have generally been less technical and more games industry oriented than on the continent. I really don't know, but it seems that way. Really, I want less information about times past, for which I could just as well read Commodore User or Crash, and more about what is happening now in the retro scene.

I really don't mind your covering of the Speccy or the Amstrad, though. I just don't wish you make big "All about the rubber wonder" articles every second issue. And when you make an overview of a particular system, make sure that it stays factual. Each and every such article seems to say that system X was the best system in the world, be it the Lynx, the NES or the MSX.

[Mayhem]

Well thanks for taking the time to write that, I'll try and give some thoughts based on my opinion and experience.


Is it your mag or something?

Heh... sadly not, but I wrote for the old RG and I will be writing for the new RG. Plus I'm in regular contact with the editor, so he usually gets the lowdown on anything that's going on.


For a start, I second Tom's request for professionalism. There are too many factual errors which probably stem from what I call Wiki/Google journalism. The Internet has made it too easy to do tendentious journalism, since anything from spelling to encyclopædic knowledge has no longer to reside inside the writer's head. Unfortunately, that means that if you don't have a critical view of your sources, you're bound to repeat urban legends, just like a spell checker won't tell you the difference between "their" and "they're".

The mantra here is that everyone can't know everything. The problem also is that sometimes a subject may need covering, or be suggested, or have enough interest to run, and no one on the freelance team (which is growing) actually has that directly. So you do have to pull things from other sources quite often as part of your research. Fact of nature. If the net didn't exist, I'd be doing it down the library or other facilities instead.

I consider myself to have a wide knowledge of stuff, considerably bulked up in the last 6 years from being here for starters. But I can't talk about Japanese shooters from the mid 90s much for starters.

There has been an "edict" recently that people need to cut down the errors (or more precisely if they can't verify it, then leave it out or state it may not be true) so that might please you. There's also a push towards articles on games with direct responses and information from the people responsible, to give their side of things, which should provide another angle not currently present online or actually existing in any form.


Sometimes, it seems that the editor doesn't care enough about continuity. Two articles in the magazine may state total opposite views. This is not bad per se, if it is made clear that the article is opinion or if it is a column. But if it is seen as representing not only the view of the writer, but also as representing the mag as a whole, it is a bad thing.

I've noticed that some get credited, and some do not. I haven't figured out a pattern yet, but it does seem to point possibly at no credit for factual pieces, and credit for those which do feature opinion. But that's just my observation.



Also, I find the layout very uninspired, settling for the current global standard for how a gaming mag is supposed to look. The layout doesn't seem thought-out, and there is little dynamicism in the pages. The art director also needs proper stuff to work with; I want less low-res JPEGs (This is something I've hated with Games TM; if I want to look at blocky pictures with JPEG artifacts, I look at my screen. I certainly don't want to waste trees and hard-earned cash on it.) and more good photographs.

Can I ask what you thought of the previous layout as a comparison here? The current layout is an improvement, though similar to GamesTM in some ways. The art director has more than 15 years experience in the business and used to work on a number of high profile UK magazines such as Zzap!64. It's supposed to be professional, though I take the point it may lose some personality as a result.

Photos can be VERY hard to source these days without finding them online (unless you have say items to hand to take pictures of, which is what I often do because I own them!).


As for the content, I want less coverage of next-gen games. This goes both for systems which some classify as retro but I don't (N64, DC, PSX) and for retro compilations. It's not that I don't think that retro compilations don't deserve to be reviewed, but they shouldn't dominate the reviews like they do now. Why don't you actually review the games which the magazine is supposed to cover? Why not do regular reviews of Platoon, The Super Shinobi or I Ball?

There have been other comments about the level of current-gen reviews so they may be tailored down. Retro in the definition being used by the mag (and certainly a lot of other people) is the last gen and back, so expect to see more N64, PS1 and DC stuff (sadly for yourself). Regular reviews of old games has been pretty much nixed, as the argument is, if you want to read the opinion about an old game in that sense, just find a review from the time it came out.


On the other hand, I know that the name of the mag is *Retro* Gamer, but do all games have to be old? There are a lot new games being made, but they're usually just given a cursory glance in the rear end of the mag, whereas mobile phone conversions of old games are met with much more enthusiasm.

Someone else currently does the section where new games for old systems are reviewed, but I have been offered it in the near future if that person doesn't have the time for it due to other commitments. So if I did take it over, expect homebrew reviews (such as the latest 2600, Vectrex and Coleco games) to feature a bit more :)


It seems as though RG doesn't really get in touch with the communities which care for the systems. Perhaps it stems from RG being from the UK, where mags have generally been less technical and more games industry oriented than on the continent. I really don't know, but it seems that way. Really, I want less information about times past, for which I could just as well read Commodore User or Crash, and more about what is happening now in the retro scene.

I think you might be right there. The first year of RG under Live was quite a bit more technical than the last six months it was alive. The general consensus was that people wanted less "boring" articles about the hardware itself, and more about the games. So that's the direction the magazine has taken. Still expect hardware features (Spectrum and NGPC, with the 2600 coming up in issue 21) but not as long or as detailed as before.


I really don't mind your covering of the Speccy or the Amstrad, though. I just don't wish you make big "All about the rubber wonder" articles every second issue.

The Spectrum was the biggest 8 bit machine in the UK during the 80s. RG is based in the UK. Sorry about that, but the natural interest base and knowledge of the freelance team will by definition be skewed a bit towards the machines that made it in the UK during the time (Spectrum, C64, Amstrad, Amiga, ST, Megadrive, SNES). There are some people who their stuff on the SMS, MSX, 2600, Coleco and so on, but don't expect it to be as many.

Conversely you could say the same about US retro publications; they are quite often heavily weighted towards the 2600 and NES.

RG isn't perfect. It won't cater to everyone. No publication ever could. And with most of the user base being in the UK, it will naturally be UK slanted but there's certainly enough interest, knowledge and demand from the foreign readers for obscure and little known things to be written about in the future.

Anyhow, if you wish for me to pass any of these comments onto the editor, then let me know and I will do so :)

[chaoticjelly]

It's annoying when NTSC pictures of games are used - the old mag used to do that all the time, not sure if the new mag does that, not so hard to find the proper pictures for a UK oriented mag.

I agree though there is far too much Spectrum and C64 stuff in there and not enough of the SNES, Megadrive etc, seems like all the staffs expertise is only in the old 8 bit computers and they like SNES etc but are not really too into it, I feel that the articles show that

I wrote a letter to the editor but he never bothered to reply, I also emailed the advertisements department as I was interested in having an ad in the mag but they never replied either - not good.. :/

[Mayhem]

Picture wise, well if the game came out worldwide, what's the problem with using NTSC pictures? ;)

Content wise, well as said, it's down to what people know. I guess all the SNES and MD lovers aren't writers heh. Apart from maybe John S. Having said that, I feel part of the split between console and computer, especially in the UK is down to the fact that console games were so expensive back then, that a lot of people just couldn't afford it much.

Compare to during the 80s when you either buy games cheaper and/or copy them, and you see my point. Hard to get into something and love it when it costs much more than the alternatives in the field.

I got lucky... okay partly lucky, I had a good income from doing a year's work before starting uni, and various bits of earning during it to get a good SNES set of games going during the 90s to play, keep and cherish.

The fact when you look at it that games back then were hidiously dear compared to now (comparitively, taking inflation into account, I reckon it costs in real money half, or maybe even less, than it used to) that whilst the 16bit era is probably overall the best that gaming has had, it also had the most prohibitive games costs.

As for contacting the editor and magazine, whilst I can't say anything about the ad, Darran has been working his arse off since he joined to get the first two issues done (two weeks for each) and now only has time to stretch it out to the normal 4 weeks. He probably read the email and never had time to reply. I know he has said he reads everything he gets.

[tom]

Is not quite true that games in UK were expensive, when compared to...for example... Germany.

VCS game in UK 29.00 ukpounds, in Germany at the time: add another 10.00 or 20.00 ukpounds.

(source UK: C+VG 1983, Germany: TeleMatch 1983)

US Disc games for example: The Halley Project (Mindscape) UK: 30.00 ukpounds. Germany 50.00 ukpounds

(source: purchased game myself in 1986 in Germany and again in 1988 in UK)

C-64 in UK at launch: 299.00 ukpounds, Germany: add another 100.00 ukpounds.

Also:
Between 1984 and 1987 I purchased many VCS games from Telegames UK, even with shipping to Germany, I could buy 5 - 10 games at a time and save a lot of money when compared buying in Germany.

So UK'er were very lucky, just like with music, UK was the place to be for purchasing cheap popular culture.

Of course, today it is a different story, as UK is now the most expensive place to buy in Europe, sign of the times...

[Mayhem]

The C64 was 299 in the UK on launch? Hmmm got proof? No way do I think it was that low, but await to be shown to be wrong.

Still, you know SOMETHING is fucked up when at one point, the disk drive cost MORE than the C64 itself in the UK :roll:

[tom]

C-64 at launch, 299.00 ukpounds, source: Retro Gamer issue 19 page 42, maybe you should read it Mayhem
(Of course , they are probably wrong as usual)

FDDs were always more than the computer, in USA for Apple ][, XL, or C-64, same story...
in Germany too...

Are you sure you deserve the title 'the daddy' (gamesTM)?

[Mayhem]

Explains why.. it's in the Spectrum article and I didn't read that :P

Still, it was done by Martyn Carroll (the ex RG editor) so it may well have some ring of truth to it. Frankly I don't know to be honest, we got our C64 second hand in 1984 and I'm sure it cost my father more than £300 at the time. I doubt he remembers twenty years on though!

Given how much the C64 price dropped in the US over the first 18 months, it might have been reflected in the European prices when it came to launch there. Still I've got some ideas about where I can perhaps look, so maybe I can take it further if I have time.

As for disk drives, there must have been lots of rich Germans buying C64 and drives then given the popularity of the format compared to tapes. Indeed, I think I've hardly seen any tapes sold on eBay.de past about 1987 release. All seems to be disk only, apart from the odd copy of Giana Sisters and Katakis. Just from my observation.

Certainly disk drives never took off in the UK. Only today with the popularity of collecting disk software and the ease of speed, are drives being bought up lots to use them.