the 360 HD-DVD drive thread

[diskoboy]

According to IGN, Joystiq, and a few other gaiming sites, Peter Moore is supposed to announce the HD-DVD attachment for the Xbox 360 today at CES.

But come on Micro$oft.... An external drive?? What's the deal with that? And I hope to god they use it for more than movies.

Since CES starts today (January 5th) I guess it's still a rumor. But it's got my attention!

[luffy744]

According to IGN, Joystiq, and a few other gaiming sites, Peter Moore is supposed to announce the HD-DVD attachment for the Xbox 360 today at CES.

But come on Micro$oft.... An external drive?? What's the deal with that? And I hope to god they use it for more than movies.

Since CES starts today (January 5th) I guess it's still a rumor. But it's got my attention!

Having no insider knowledge or anything (and I thought a 360 HD-DVD drive/addon/version was just a rumor?), I would say for pretty much certain that it will only be for movies. It didn't come standard with the system, so game makers won't use it, because that means consumers would have to buy extra hardware to play it. And games that require extra hardware more often than not flop. So if an HD-DVD 360/HD-DVD addon does surface, don't count on seeing games that use them. Microsoft felt that getting the 360 out sooner was more important that equipping it with a standard HD-DVD drive, so DVD is what it's going to have to live with.

[YoshiM]

According to this place (http://ces.betanews.com/entry/Xbox_360_to_Get_HD_DVD_Drive/1136434138) it's confirmed along with 50 HD DVD capable games available by summer. I'm not sure how reliable Betanews is, so, there ya go.

I know MS wants the 360 to be your central entertainment hub but would an HD DVD add on really be that cost effective compared a stand alone unit? Would it cause general confusion with the market?

If it's true that games are coming out for the add-on drive, is this going to be another Sega CD situation of having the same games for each platform? Scary, scary stuff.

[Mr.FoodMonster]

According to Microsoft, the Xbox 360 is on track to be the fastest-selling video game console ever
Bwahahaahahaahaha

Oh man, thats rich. Yeah, I really doubt they are going to make games for it, they'd be very, very stupid for doing so.

[Flack]

I think you're seeing several factors here.

01. Including it would have raised the price even higher. No one was sure how well a $399 console was going to sell as it was. Including it on the "core" version would have raised its price as well.

02. Every review of the 360 has described using normal DVDs as "limiting", so maybe that got MS to change their minds/stance.

03. I think this is a future trend, seeing console prices "stretched out". Remember, some people bought a core system, then a hard drive, and then this drive. It's a way to keep the money coming in. Granted on a core console MS loses money, but I'm sure there's some profit margins built into these accessories.

[hezeuschrist]

I think you're seeing several factors here.

01. Including it would have raised the price even higher. No one was sure how well a $399 console was going to sell as it was. Including it on the "core" version would have raised its price as well.

02. Every review of the 360 has described using normal DVDs as "limiting", so maybe that got MS to change their minds/stance.

03. I think this is a future trend, seeing console prices "stretched out". Remember, some people bought a core system, then a hard drive, and then this drive. It's a way to keep the money coming in. Granted on a core console MS loses money, but I'm sure there's some profit margins built into these accessories.

From what I understand, that's the bread and butter for Sony, MS, and Nintendo. Nintendo might actually net more profit from first party software, but the accessories is where it's at for the ridiculous markups... $100 for a 20gb notebook drive with a very cheap housing? Can't cost them more than $50 to produce each one.

As for the add-on... I dunno, I'm kidna torn. I want some HD Movies for true, watching regular DVD's on an HDTV is sometimes painful depending on the compression, but on the other hand I'd rather have a media center PC that can just store a bunch of HD movies.

[pacmanhat]

I still contend that there is absolutely no way that MS would put out a drive for anything BUT movies. Releasing a whole series of games that not only require the system but also require a whole other attachment to work would not be good for business or for the consumers. This analogy fits pretty well, if it is in fact made for gaming:

New Device : Xbox 360 :: Sega CD : Genesis

It ain't happening.

[Joker T]

Hey what ever happened to that SNES CD drive LOL

But seriously this sucks. 2 months after 360 is released and now there is an add on. They should have put HD-DVD support from the start.

Does anyone know if the new versions of the system will have the HD-DVD support built in?

[AKay]

This sucks if it is going to be used for more then just movies.
Because if it is then it makes no sense and makes for a clunky system.
I would sell mine and wait for a newer 360 model with it built in.
AKay

[pacmanhat]

Hey what ever happened to that SNES CD drive LOL

But seriously this sucks. 2 months after 360 is released and now there is an add on. They should have put HD-DVD support from the start.

Does anyone know if the new versions of the system will have the HD-DVD support built in?

It's possible, but unlikely. Microsoft has expressed zero interest in putting out different versions of the 360, one of which is incompatible with the media of the other. If it happens, it won't be for a looong time.

[Ed Oscuro]

EDIT: It's just for movies. Looks like we're stuck with DVD games forevermore, after all.

Scratched discs, unpopped vent holes in the case, a too-aggressive marketing schedule, and now an external HD-DVD drive? It's pretty clear that Microsoft rushed this one to market for the holiday season.

No matter; there'll eventually be a version with the HD-DVD integrated. Very odd.

I'm definitely happy as this means that 360 gamers will be able to experience full versions of games without disc-swapping, and that the system won't pull down other systems by causing developers to cut features and length of multiplatform games. It is odd how this came about, however.

[Mr.FoodMonster]

They should have put HD-DVD support from the start.
::Golf clap::

MS should've gone big, or not gone at all.

[njiska]

They should have put HD-DVD support from the start.
::Golf clap::

MS should've gone big, or not gone at all.

The concept of End user cost doesn't mean anything to you does it?

[unwinddesign]

They should have put HD-DVD support from the start.
::Golf clap::

MS should've gone big, or not gone at all.

Yeah, really. They should have included dual 7800 GTx 512 MB cards, 8 3.8 GHZ processers, 1 TB of HD space, 5 optical drives and the ability to wash your car! Who the hell cares if it costs $6,000? Go big or don't go at all, I say!

[Trebuken]

It's my understanding that the Xbox 360 hardware will allow developers to use some spectacular compression that current gen systems are not capable of, thus a 6GB Xbox 360 game might be three times larger than a 6GB PS2 game.

Also, they have left open the option of making multy-disc games (boo, hiss), but they can have two versions of these games now HD version, and a multi-disc version).

I would expect the HD-DVD drive to handle the games as well. I do not think this is a significant hardware challenge, or cost.

I think these drives may initially cost more than the 360 though, if what I've read is true. Pioneer announced a couple Blue-Ray drives in the range of $900-$1800. I think these were very high end, but they aren't expected until May or so. One was also a recorder (Blue-Ray recordable is a sweet deal for condensing your DVD collection),

Later,
Trebuken

[njiska]

It's my understanding that the Xbox 360 hardware will allow developers to use some spectacular compression that current gen systems are not capable of, thus a 6GB Xbox 360 game might be three times larger than a 6GB PS2 game.

Haha it's fun you say that since right now a lot of Xbox games are a thrid the size of they're PS2 counter-parts.

[Mr.FoodMonster]

The concept of End user cost doesn't mean anything to you does it?
Well, you're going to buy one, right? I dont think they would bother to release it if they thought nobody would buy it.

I understand the expense of it, and if they hadn't put it in, and hadn't announced this, they would've been better off.

Say they make Halo 3 one of these HD games, like I'm sure they will. I'm willing to bet atleast 30% of the people that bought a 360 wouldn't have done that if there was no promise of a new halo. So, that 30% just dropped 3 or 4 hundred on a system. Now, they have to go out and buy ANOTHER thing that could potentially cost that same amount to play the ONE GAME they realllly want to play. See what I'm getting at here?

They should've put it in to begin with, or never planned to use it all at. Plain and simple.

[PS2Hawk]

Running games or Movies from USB drive should show numerous hickups.

The 360's drive is loud as it is and not to mention I am waiting for my repair/replacement console... I am not to tempted by the addon. I would rather wait for PS3 that packs everything inside.

I would like the option of putting in ur own hard drive .. so I can decide wat ever I want and buying games online through xbox live marketplace.

[njiska]

Running games or Movies from USB drive should show numerous hickups.

The 360's drive is loud as it is and not to mention I am waiting for my repair/replacement console... I am not to tempted by the addon. I would rather wait for PS3 that packs everything inside.

I would like the option of putting in ur own hard drive .. so I can decide wat ever I want and buying games online through xbox live marketplace.

Who says it would have to be USB? After all we do that that expansion slot that the HDD uses. From the start i always figured an HD HDVD would attach there.

[Lothars]

The concept of End user cost doesn't mean anything to you does it?
Well, you're going to buy one, right? I dont think they would bother to release it if they thought nobody would buy it.

I understand the expense of it, and if they hadn't put it in, and hadn't announced this, they would've been better off.

Say they make Halo 3 one of these HD games, like I'm sure they will. I'm willing to bet atleast 30% of the people that bought a 360 wouldn't have done that if there was no promise of a new halo. So, that 30% just dropped 3 or 4 hundred on a system. Now, they have to go out and buy ANOTHER thing that could potentially cost that same amount to play the ONE GAME they realllly want to play. See what I'm getting at here?

They should've put it in to begin with, or never planned to use it all at. Plain and simple.

I agree fully with what you said there

I think it's going to shoot them in the foot

maybe for the bad but it's just not good what it seems like they are doing with this

though im still hoping for Blu-ray and HD DVD to work out an agreement and not have two medias

[Ed Oscuro]

It's my understanding that the Xbox 360 hardware will allow developers to use some spectacular compression that current gen systems are not capable of, thus a 6GB Xbox 360 game might be three times larger than a 6GB PS2 game.

Haha it's fun you say that since right now a lot of Xbox games are a thrid the size of they're PS2 counter-parts.
Probably the FMV movies on those PS2 games, which would've been run real-time on the Xbox ;) Yeah, I learned about game sizes as well recently...I'd have to see some numbers for that else I'm callin' shenanigans.




They should have put HD-DVD support from the start.
::Golf clap::

MS should've gone big, or not gone at all.

Yeah, really. They should have included dual 7800 GTx 512 MB cards, 8 3.8 GHZ processers, 1 TB of HD space, 5 optical drives and the ability to wash your car! Who the hell cares if it costs $6,000? Go big or don't go at all, I say!
At this point even Microsoft agrees that they should've had HD-DVD in from the beginning. Don't feel the need to support a lost cause.

Personally, plain old DVD games such as Call of Duty 2 look fantastic. I'm just happy for the upgrade, and I'm not angry or judgemental towards Microsoft...they know this is going to be another headache for them as well as consumers, but decided to go with the decision anyway.

[PS2Hawk]

Running games or Movies from USB drive should show numerous hickups.

The 360's drive is loud as it is and not to mention I am waiting for my repair/replacement console... I am not to tempted by the addon. I would rather wait for PS3 that packs everything inside.

I would like the option of putting in ur own hard drive .. so I can decide wat ever I want and buying games online through xbox live marketplace.

Who says it would have to be USB? After all we do that that expansion slot that the HDD uses. From the start i always figured an HD HDVD would attach there.


you probably need drivers that will be downloaded from market place and secondly even if it sits on that, that is going to look UGLY considering its as wide as a normal dvd drive.

[njiska]

Hawk foolish is the man who bad mouths something he knows nothing about. Anything about it's look, interaction or funsctionality should wait until the unit is actually unveiled.

[PS2Hawk]

Hawk foolish is the man who bad mouths something he knows nothing about. Anything about it's look, interaction or funsctionality should wait until the unit is actually unveiled.

hmm I was just giving opinion... I don't know wat your prob is but anyways, be a dumbass and buy an HD-DVD which has less industry support.. and don't forget YOU HAVE TO BUY IT, where as you get a next gen dvd player on PS3 free.

[njiska]

The concept of End user cost doesn't mean anything to you does it?
Well, you're going to buy one, right? I dont think they would bother to release it if they thought nobody would buy it.

I understand the expense of it, and if they hadn't put it in, and hadn't announced this, they would've been better off.

Say they make Halo 3 one of these HD games, like I'm sure they will. I'm willing to bet atleast 30% of the people that bought a 360 wouldn't have done that if there was no promise of a new halo. So, that 30% just dropped 3 or 4 hundred on a system. Now, they have to go out and buy ANOTHER thing that could potentially cost that same amount to play the ONE GAME they realllly want to play. See what I'm getting at here?

They should've put it in to begin with, or never planned to use it all at. Plain and simple.

But we're not talking a $50 difference. We're talking about a lot more.

And no, i probably won't buy one until it's dirt cheap specifically because in order to get the best advantage in the next gen of Video i want a combo Blu-Ray/HD DVD player.

Everything we've been hearing out of the microsoft camp is that they want everything playable on the core system. HD games would create a 2-tier system and never in history has an add on required for gaming (aside from the N64 Expansion pack) been profitable.

I see what you're getting at, but it's based around HD DVD games and i honestly don't expect that to happen.

As for why they would release it the answer is simple they're pusshing HD DVD and if the Xbox can get an affordable alternative to the PS3's Blu Ray. But because it's optional, you're not forced to pay for it, so you can save money.

Again this is all conjecture and isn't worth a damn. All we've been given is the information that an extrenal drive is coming. Nothing more.

[sabre2922]

-Microsoft VP says external next-gen format drive will play video only and says no 360 with an internal HD-DVD drive is planned. - from Gamespot

This is bad news for Microsoft and the 360

More and more the 360 is looking like a rushed console much in the same way the Saturn turned out to be with Microsoft making many of the same mistakes that Sega did back in '95-98.

I laughed when I read so many quotes and statements from the video game industry about the 360 calling it the next Dreamcast and so on becuase I just didnt see it, but now Im starting to think that maybe those comments werent so far of the mark.

With Microsoft already announcing add-ons and backing the HD format when the Blue Ray format has much more powerful allies in both the videogame industry and even moreso in the Movie industry.

Even Nintendo and Sony (PS2 hardrive anyone) has learned that the whole add-on thing is a bad idea as far as home consoles go no matter how well planned it may seem to be.

I like the 360 and I think its a good system but Microsoft should not have rushed their next gen system to maket so quickly just to beat the PS3 by 6-9 months all the while sacrificing a truly next gen format compataible drive (HD-DVD in the 360s case wich Micorsoft is backing) and keeping the traditional DVD format therefore constricting the abilities of what is a very powerful machine.

Im starting to think of the Xbox360 as more of a Saturn 2 than the Dreamcast 2.

A couple examples:
-------------------------------------------------------
Dual Processors; difficult for designers and developers to truly tap the systems full potential therefore making a more diffficult work environment (i.e. development kit) than a single processor console-Saturn=Xbox360

Rushed to market to beat the competition to store shelves in under a year wich has never proven to be either a + or - in the overall outcome of any generation of home consoles-Saturn= Xbox360
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes there are other factors that give the 360 a big advantage when compared to Segas ill-fated 32-bit system the least of wich being Microsofts deep pockets and cold cash of billions in the bank , but honestly how much of a sacrifice can even a conglomerate like microsoft make just to be "king of the hill" in one market?

[Ed Oscuro]

Hawk foolish is the man who bad mouths something he knows nothing about. Anything about it's look, interaction or funsctionality should wait until the unit is actually unveiled.

hmm I was just giving opinion... I don't know wat your prob is but anyways, be a dumbass and buy an HD-DVD which has less industry support.. and don't forget YOU HAVE TO BUY IT, where as you get a next gen dvd player on PS3 free.
Unless you're rich, all of the major three next-gen systems should have more than enough games to keep all but the most dissipated millionaire gamers busy for a long time. I still haven't run through a fraction of the original Xbox action games I want to try out.

Making the point about how the HD-DVD which is pretty much required, and then saying "it has less industry support" doesn't make a whole lot of sense, though. You're saying 360 owners should want to stick with the default system, and get even less support in the future? LOL Not to say I don't understand why you said these things, but when you lump them together like that it gets a bit ridiculous.

[Anthony1]

I don't understand what all this fuss is about. This external HD-DVD drive is not for games. It's only for movies. It's just to give 360 owners an option for a cheap avenue to High Def DVD watching. It will be cheaper to buy the 360 add on player, than a full fledged HD-DVD unit.


There really isn't anything big about this announcement.



If it was meant to play games, then that would be one thing, but it's not. The only games it might play would be the multi disk games on a single disk. That's it. Deliberately fragmenting your market is about the dumbest thing you can possibly do. There is no way that they would do that.

[PS2Hawk]

Hawk foolish is the man who bad mouths something he knows nothing about. Anything about it's look, interaction or funsctionality should wait until the unit is actually unveiled.

hmm I was just giving opinion... I don't know wat your prob is but anyways, be a dumbass and buy an HD-DVD which has less industry support.. and don't forget YOU HAVE TO BUY IT, where as you get a next gen dvd player on PS3 free.
Unless you're rich, all of the major three next-gen systems should have more than enough games to keep all but the most dissipated millionaire gamers busy for a long time. I still haven't run through a fraction of the original Xbox action games I want to try out.

Making the point about how the HD-DVD which is pretty much required, and then saying "it has less industry support" doesn't make a whole lot of sense, though. You're saying 360 owners should want to stick with the default system, and get even less support in the future? LOL Not to say I don't understand why you said these things, but when you lump them together like that it gets a bit ridiculous.

well the point was, HD-DVD has less support as is, and you get BLU-RAY player with PS3 by default so wats the point to buy an add on for movies for 360..... get it ?
its your money though... spend it the way you want... ;)

[Fighter17]

I post this at Armchair Arcade, and it's a long post:

Here's the problem with me and this HD-DVD, Blu-Ray bullcrap: The general pubic will not get the difference between both formats. My dad doesn't know crap about computers, and when he finds out about two new disc formats, he'll be confused. DVDs to him are good enough, but he doesn't own a HDTV to experience Hi-def. He's 65, and many people his age are not technology advance like us. The general consumer, like my father, will not get the difference between both formats. The general consumer is not us nerds (I have to say it), it's the regular working class. And if the general public is confused, it will confused everybody. Look, if I'm a regular person and some guy told me that HD-DVD is the future, I would buy an HD-DVD player. Now by mistake I purchase a Blu-Ray disc and try to play it on the HD-DVD player, it won't work. I will return it and I'll find out that it's a Blu-Ray disc and it doesn't work on an HD-DVD player. I'll be confuse as hell and I'll said that both are the same fucking thing, what's the difference? If this happens, it'll be confusing to many, many people.

I don't believe that the world needs a new disc format yet, look at the video market. People are still buying VHS tapes (like my father), and those people will never get an HDTV because "it doesn't do anything special for me." More and more people are buying DVDs, but they are not watching it on an HDTV. There're not many people that I know that watch their movies on an HDTV, mostly because they don't even own one yet! They are not enough people who own an HDTV, and I would wait about three-fire years until more people owns an HDTV. DVDs get the job done on an HDTV, so I don't see need for a new disc format. Also if you want to get the most of your HD-DVDs and Blu-Ray, if I remember correctly, do you need a special TV just for it?

All this HDTV talk brings up an other point: video cables. OK, I know 360 owners from school and on the net (like Bill), and most people play the 360 thru a composite cable. My friend just purchase the $399 360 package with the RGB cable and the composite cable. He goes to school with me and he told me this problem: He really wants to play the 360 thru the living room (HDTV in it), but the problem is that people are always in the living room so he can't. He rarely have the TV for himself, but it's a hassle to move the 360 back and forth from his room to the living room. Many kids of my age play games in our rooms which are very small, and the TVs we have supports composite or S-Video only. If we want to have a HDTV in our room, we must buy something that cost over $300 and put it in our room. Since kids our age always have too much stuff in our room, there's no room for the HDTV. All my friends play their systems thru RF AND composite only. I don't know not either one person who plays the game thru an RGB cable. So who can afford playing the system thru a HDTV and doesn't get bugged by people? Adults who have the money. People like Bill can afford playing the game thru an HDTV with an RGB cable and an 360 with the best graphics in the world. Still, many adults play thru an composite wire because they can't afford an HDTV. Now, how's this releates to HD-DVD and Blu-Ray? If both format movies want to push for the best image quality, they want us to watch it on an HDTV thru a RGB cable. Once again not many adults watch the movies or play games thru an RGB cable or even own a HDTV in general. If you watch an HD-DVD thru a composite wire, you are going to get the same image quality as a DVD thru composite, and it doesn't make an difference. S-Video has been out for over 20 years and it's still not popular as composite (and it's better than composite, keep that in mind). TVs today are still being made with an composite slot only (but that's changing, hopefully). To experience HD-DVD and Blu-Ray to its fullest, you must have an HDTV with an RGB cable, and that's it. DVDs are not doing enough to force people to buy an HDTV, the general consumer will call the Hi-def freature an bonus for those who own an HDTV, but most of them won't care buying an HDTV.

What I'm trying to say is that many adults are still playing games and watching movies thru an composite wire. To get Hi-def, you must use an RGB cable, which is still not popular as composite. RGB cables are so unpopluar, my friend owns an HDTV and an Gamecube, and he plays it on the HDTV thru a composite cable. It looks great to him, but I told him that you can improve the image quality greatly if you purchase an RGB cable for it. He didn't really care because as long it's not RF, he's fine.

My major points:

* HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will confuse the general public (a new VHS Vs. BetaMax)
* HD-DVD and Blu-Ray want to push Hi-def even furhter when the general pubic doesn't even own an HDTV yet
* Few people play their games or watch movies thru an RGB cable
* Composite cables are still the king

What I would have done:

* Wait for three-five years until HDTVs are more mainstream, and then I would introduce the new disc formats.
* Let the public know that RGB cables are better than composite
* Let the public know that HDTVs are better than regular TVs
* Stop the VHS sales (I wish)
* MAKE HDTVS SMALLER FOR A REGULAR SMALL ROOM!

My two cents.

[njiska]

This pretty well sums up the stance of MS and why they're doing it.

From Gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6141930.html)
"Right now it's focused purely on movie playback. Think of the drive as something that lets you play high-definition movies on the Xbox 360." The external drive will function as an alternative to purchasing a separate HD-DVD playback device: "If you want to watch HD-DVD movies and if you own an Xbox 360, there will be no reason for you to go out and buy another player."

Microsoft has considered the benefits of HD-DVD for games, but Moore is confident that the current Xbox 360 system and Xbox Live service are fine for next-gen gaming. "HD-DVD from the gameplay point of view is primarily about media storage as is of course Blu-ray," he said. "Our developers are very comfortable with the [Xbox 360's] storage options--I think they're utilizing Xbox Live very creatively, and the hard drive, we have a very strong attach rate for the hard drive."

[Ed Oscuro]

Wow, I totally missed the part where it was supposed to be for movies only... :/


well the point was, HD-DVD has less support as is,
Now that I understand what the HD-DVD is about...I don't know. Lots of companies would rather have gone with HD-DVD than Blu-Ray on the movie side.

Since it's not going to be for games, though...well...yikes.

But we'll see...maybe companies will put games on it anyway.

WTF, Microsoft.

[Anthony1]

For the above poster, Fighter17, I must say, have you ever heard of a VGA Monitor? A VGA Monitor is a small HDTV that is perfect for very small rooms. You can get a really nice one for $50 on craigslist. The Xbox 360 has a VGA cable that you can buy for it, and you will get a perfect image.



Also, instead of using RGB in that post above, you should substitute component, otherwise people will think you are talking about analog RGB which is used to get the absolute best video quality from the classic systems of the very late 80's and 90's.

[Fighter17]

For the above poster, Fighter17, I must say, have you ever heard of a VGA Monitor? A VGA Monitor is a small HDTV that is perfect for very small rooms. You can get a really nice one for $50 on craigslist. The Xbox 360 has a VGA cable that you can buy for it, and you will get a perfect image.



Also, instead of using RGB in that post above, you should substitute component, otherwise people will think you are talking about analog RGB which is used to get the absolute best video quality from the classic systems of the very late 80's and 90's.

I could had said component, but people still call it RGB for some reason. I forgot about the VGA cable, but the problem with that is that I play 2D games, and 2D games don't support VGA. Many 2D Dreamcast games don't support VGA, so that's the problem.

[graboid9]

So you guys that are saying that MS rushed the system out before it was ready because it dosent have built in HD-DVD? you do realize that when a new product is released (HD-DVD/BlueRay) they wil average about $1000...just like a cd player when it was released. just like a dvd player when it was released. Was MS supposed to sit on its new and completed hardware until HD-DVD was released? that dosent seem like a very smart business decision. Also think about this, do you think Sony can release brand new media (blueray) for $500? what is that going to do for all the other BlueRay player makers...undercuting them by half? Its not going to happen. You will pay for your BlueRay enabled PS3...alot. At least with the 360 you can choose weather you really need the new media.

[stressboy]

But we'll see...maybe companies will put games on it anyway.



I think MS would be stupid to allow this, so I don't see it happening.

[kainemaxwell]

* Stop the VHS sales (I wish)
They're stopping VHS production this month actually.

[Trebuken]

For the above poster, Fighter17, I must say, have you ever heard of a VGA Monitor? A VGA Monitor is a small HDTV that is perfect for very small rooms. You can get a really nice one for $50 on craigslist. The Xbox 360 has a VGA cable that you can buy for it, and you will get a perfect image.



Also, instead of using RGB in that post above, you should substitute component, otherwise people will think you are talking about analog RGB which is used to get the absolute best video quality from the classic systems of the very late 80's and 90's.

I could had said component, but people still call it RGB for some reason. I forgot about the VGA cable, but the problem with that is that I play 2D games, and 2D games don't support VGA. Many 2D Dreamcast games don't support VGA, so that's the problem.

HDMI is the future. I think component will fall off the map, and there will be HDMI for high-end and composite for low-end. S-Video seems to have little future as well. Manufactures do not want to continue to support too many connection types.

HD and Blue Ray will be introduced this year but will take at least a couple years to overtake DVD sales. Peopele will be upgrading over this period as the see the difference. The fact that Televsision will be going completely digital (2007?) will help to push the technology ahead since HDTV broadcasting will be scaled up soon, people will have to get additional equipment to view TV.

The electronics stores are phasing out regular TV's. I do not see manufactures producing many small HDTV's except LCD monitors at 17", must not be cost effective. Would love to have a HD handheld DVD player...

People do resist technology, it's expensive, and many people don't appreciate it the same. I'm still trying to get my sister to get a DVR. I tell her it's worth the $10 a month. She and her husband make more than I do...instead she just compains about missing all her episodes.

Anyone still watching VHS must be collecting Social Security, and I can appreciate that fact...

Later,
Trebuken

[Ed Oscuro]

But we'll see...maybe companies will put games on it anyway.



I think MS would be stupid to allow this, so I don't see it happening.
I think that we might end up finding they were stupid not to have HD-DVD games from the beginning. A few years from now it might make all the difference in the world...

[Trebuken]

But we'll see...maybe companies will put games on it anyway.



I think MS would be stupid to allow this, so I don't see it happening.
I think that we might end up finding they were stupid not to have HD-DVD games from the beginning. A few years from now it might make all the difference in the world...

I honestly believe that Microsoft expects to have a next generation of console out (after the 360), than Sony does. In a few years the PS3 will certainly take over the lead in performance as programmers learn the systems. Until then it'll be neck and neck. That's when a new Xbox will be released; when it can't compete with the PS3 any longer. Microsoft has also hinted at all sorts of expansion capabilities.

We'll see. In ten years these should both be retro systems anyways...

Played Fighnt Night 3 yet...?

Later,
Trebuken

[Tan]

i don't see what the big deal is, a hd-dvd add-on is just another peripheral nothing more, people act like it'll determine whether or not a system will die based on it's extra functionality, me? i've never used my ps2 or xbox for movies, nor do those features determine who has better graphics, the gamecube's success or failure has nothing to do with it's media, and the psp isn't selling as many as it is because you can watch movies on a 5inch screen.

the console market and the movie industry are getting too closely intertwined with each other, people make it sound like if the 360 doesn't have hd-dvd games then it's tits up for Microsoft :roll:

you know, if the saturn had a laserdisc add-on it would've been king x_x :villagepeople:

[Ed Oscuro]

you know, if the saturn had a laserdisc add-on it would've been king x_x :villagepeople:
The difference is that the Saturn wasn't up against a console that had a DVD drive.

[Ed Oscuro]

Until then it'll be neck and neck. That's when a new Xbox will be released; when it can't compete with the PS3 any longer. Microsoft has also hinted at all sorts of expansion capabilities.

We'll see. In ten years these should both be retro systems anyways...

Played Fighnt Night 3 yet...?
Haven't played any Fight Night games, actually LOL

They said there won't be a 360 with an internal HD-DVD, great, but if they are going to expand the system (as opposed to simply replacing it), what's the use of selling people an HD-DVD drive that can't play games in the first place? If they ever do, there are going to know the wrath of a million jilted gamers...

Perhaps they've got their eye on downloadable content and hotfixes. Good luck is all I can say.

[njiska]

They said there won't be a 360 with an internal HD-DVD, great, but if they are going to expand the system (as opposed to simply replacing it), what's the use of selling people an HD-DVD drive that can't play games in the first place? If they ever do, there are going to know the wrath of a million jilted gamers....

Cheap HD DVD player, Eddie. That's the point. Remember movies will becoming out on HD too and we're not going to see a winner in that war this year.

[THATinkjar]

Eurogamer today posted fresh details (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=66541) on the forthcoming HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360. Apparently, the actual audio and video processing will be done by the console itself (I could have told you that!), making the add-on less expensive (duh).

And Gamerscore Blog has details on how the add-on will integrate (http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2006/08/07/536640.aspx) into the Dashboard, and I must say - I'm impressed. Simple, but very effective.

[Ed Oscuro]

Ahh, funny to see this thread make a comeback after that strange assertion of mine (obviously was talking about it from a consumer relations standpoint, i.e. "sick of people asking why it can't play HD-DVD games!") long ago...have had some discussions about this device since then LOL

[doomedpeasant]

Well just to get in on this...I'm buying one no matter what, maybe not when they first launch, but more than likely i will within a few weeks of its release. Why? because for some reason ive decided to start collecting for the 360. been debating for awhile now and what finally made up my mind is getting hired at a game store which equals cheap used games. As of right now im only missing a few hardware pieces anyways.

[Anthony1]

This HD-DVD add on, is not going to be the ideal player, from a home theater dudes perspective. There are a number of problems with this drive, but I don't really want to get into all the technical mumbo jumbo about it. The bottom line is that it's going to be a watered down HD-DVD unit, it's not going to really be a top of the line player that a true home theater enthusiast would want.

The main reason, actually isn't so much the lack of HDMI, although that is a big factor. It's the fact that it's using the ATI GPU for the video processing, a GPU that wasn't really designed with that task in mind, and it's audio processing will only be able to do 5.1 Dolby Digital and 5.1 DTS, it won't be able to do anything beyond that. From an audio standpoint, the HD-DVD add on won't provide anything that a regular DVD player couldn't provide, and that's dissapointing. You will only get the video improvement out of this. And speaking of video, it remains to be seen how good the ATI GPU will be up to the task of delivering said video. I'm sure it will look relatively decent, better than regular DVD, but I think a few years from now, the HD-DVD add on for the 360 will be thought of as a pretty horrible HD-DVD player from a video and audio standpoint.


Having said all of that, if it's $199.99 or less, I'll probably get it, just because I had the Toshiba HDA1 when it first came out, it cost $500, and I ended up returning it, because it wasn't worth that price. But for $199.99 or less, I could hang with it. $149.99 would be especially nice! I'm thinking $199.99 has to be the price point, but if they could somehow squeze it in for $149.99 that would be even better. Has anybody heard anything about when this drive is going to hit retail?

[doomedpeasant]

Havent heard a date yet but it is listed on the official xbox site with pictures

[Sothy]

It still cant microwave burritos like a PS3.

Go Big or dont go at all lolz

[Trebuken]

One of the noteworty differences of this generation of DVD (Blu-Ray + HD-DVD), is that they are as much computers as they are the set-top devives (VCR's + DVD Players) that we are accustomed to. Many of the hardware limitations can be overcome with software. I believe ATI can potentially provide a better HD-DVD decoding with the Xbox 360 then the HD-DVD player provides, if not it can be worked on, just as Toshiba is working on their player with firmware updates. The lack of HDMI places limits on bandwidth through component or VGA, but theirs likely to be an HDMI 360 eventually, possibly even boxed with the HD-DVD. This should overcome the sound issues as well, hopefully. Currently many report equal picture quality between HDMI and component, though I have not tested component myself.

I believe the Toshiba HD-DVD player has less processing power than the 360, though it may be more dedicated...

Anyways, I do think the 360 player is going to be a solid investment for a few years like Anthony suggested...though I'm looking forward to TrueHD audio (expected to be enabled soon in the HD-DVD player), and hopefully 1080p output...

Later,
Trebuken

[Emuaust]

Seems the combo, while offering similar options although poorer
backwards compatibilty will be infact more expensive then the
cheaper ps3,

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=19588

[slip81]

I will hate it so much if MS releases a 360 with an HDMI port.

Though thankfully if they do, since I have the 2 year warranty through EB I can just take it back and get a new one.

I can't wait for this prepriheral though. I'll most likely be buying it day one (and pre ordering if possible), if it's $200 or less. Because even if the video quality isn't quite as good as the $800 Toshiba machine, it will still look light years ahead of standard DVD.

[business]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S5CZpNd904

Xbox 360 HD DVD commercial.

B-Boys FTW!

[Anthony1]

Does anybody else find it strange that a release date for this product still hasn't been given? King Kong HD-DVD comes out on November 14th, and the rumor was that this add one would be available day and date with King Kong.


On a side note, King Kong HD-DVD retails seperately for $39.99 (although most places will be selling it for $30 or less) and actually comes included with the $199 add on. I would assume that this thing will come out on November 14th, but considering I haven't heard a single word about it, maybe that isn't the case.

[business]

Does anybody else find it strange that a release date for this product still hasn't been given? King Kong HD-DVD comes out on November 14th, and the rumor was that this add one would be available day and date with King Kong.


On a side note, King Kong HD-DVD retails seperately for $39.99 (although most places will be selling it for $30 or less) and actually comes included with the $199 add on. I would assume that this thing will come out on November 14th, but considering I haven't heard a single word about it, maybe that isn't the case.

Don't worry, I'm almost certain that the hd dvd add on won't be delayed again. Making the product available during the Christmas shopping season is crucial. I'd expect a Nov. 14th release, or a date close to it.

[business]

So, November 7th is the big day, anyone planning on being an early adopter?

I'm still on the fence I think.

[diskoboy]

So, November 7th is the big day, anyone planning on being an early adopter?

I'm still on the fence I think.

I'm basically doing the saem thing I did when regular DVD players came out -

I bought one when Jaws comes out.

There really aren't any movies out that I want yet, except for maybe, The Fugitive..

[business]

So, November 7th is the big day, anyone planning on being an early adopter?

I'm still on the fence I think.

I'm basically doing the saem thing I did when regular DVD players came out -

I bought one when Jaws comes out.

There really aren't any movies out that I want yet, except for maybe, The Fugitive..

Yeah, I may be doing the same. I just hate to pass up the 'limited deal' (King Kong HD and Universal Media Remote) they are doing for the first shipment.

[s1lence]

With all the stuff that is coming out in the next we weeks I'm going to probably end up waiting on this upgrade.

[Trebuken]

Any reviews for this yet?

[Anthony1]

I ordered one of these from Amazon last week. It's $199.99 with no shipping fees or tax, so I said what the heck. King Kong seals the deal for me, cause my two boys love to see that movie. Only thing that sucks about it, is the fact that it's likely going to make me want to upgrade my projector really bad. Currently I have an Infocus X1, which is actually a 4:3 480p projector. I watch High Def material in 16:9 on it all the time, and it actually looks really good on it, considering it has to downscale the High Def to 800 x 600. But with HD-DVD, I'm sure that it's going to be so damn tempting to have a true 720p DLP projector to watch these movies on it.


The truth is, with both Blu Ray and HD-DVD, if your screen size is less than 50 inches, you might not get that big of a boost from this. The screen for my projector is 113 inches, so the benefit would be absolutely astronomical, but again, I really need a true High Def projector to really get the WOW factor that I would want. Getting this add on is just going to force my hand to make a move. Luckily the Optoma HD70 is available at various places for $899.99 and that's a true 720p DLP projector. I just might have to bite the bullet on that.

[hezeuschrist]

I'm still on the fence. November 7th already has my dollars for:

FFV Advance
FFV Advance Guide
Gears of War
Gears of War Guide
Wireless network adapter for 360
Guitar Hero 2
Guitar Hero 2 Guide.

I might just pick it up and make it the most expensive video game purchase of my life.

[Joker T]

I kinda dislike getting a whole lot of cool stuf in one day personally because I just wanna try everything out.

So on the 7th Gears of War is my only purchase. The HD-DVD drive may get purchased pretty soon after though.

[Trebuken]

I am conveniently on vacation next week; with nothing to do it appears I am going to gain another ten pounds playing video games. I picked up a few this week, FFXII, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, FEAR (PC), Titan Quest (price dropped), Dungeon Siege (PSP), and Never Winter Nights is on it's way from Buy.com (40 bucks with Google Checkout deal). At the same time I am trying to finish Okami, and have gotten into Age of Empires on my DS. Likely Gears of War will trump everything though I have FFV prordered as well. It seems last week was the only big week for me unless I can find a Wii or PS3.

Later,
Trebuken

[hezeuschrist]

I am conveniently on vacation next week; with nothing to do it appears I am going to gain another ten pounds playing video games. I picked up a few this week, FFXII, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, FEAR (PC), Titan Quest (price dropped), Dungeon Siege (PSP), and Never Winter Nights is on it's way from Buy.com (40 bucks with Google Checkout deal). At the same time I am trying to finish Okami, and have gotten into Age of Empires on my DS. Likely Gears of War will trump everything though I have FFV prordered as well. It seems last week was the only big week for me unless I can find a Wii or PS3.

Later,
Trebuken

Haha, I originally took next week off for Guitar Hero 2, but now it's turned into two concerts, GH2, FFXII, and Gears of War.

I'm at work for the next 4 hours and then I'm off until a week from monday. I can't WAIT. Work straight to bar = Win.

[gepeto]

I happened to see it today at the stores in all its glory. Very Very tempting. Please post your reviews you brave ones who shelled out the bucks:)

[slip81]

well the people over at the avs forum are screaming about this thing.

supposedly the picture quality rivals that of the high end toshiba machines, BUT there is no support for trueHD sound, so no 7.1.

still though I want one of these things now that I know how good the PQ is, though one thing I don't want to do is get involved with another format.

i have a lot of dvd's, and i'm not really a fan of replacing most of them, or waiting on buying and future releases with the hopes that they get released on HD.

oh what to do.

[Anthony1]

Man, I got screwed on this thing, I ordered it from Amazon on October 24th, a pre-order no less, and they keep pushing back the shipping date. I talked to some people from Amazon's customer service, and they are apologizing for it, but they still don't have the damn thing in stock right now. So I'm gonna have to wait at least another week for this thing, maybe even longer. It sucks, cause all the local stores are sold out. I would just buy it at a local store and then cancel my Amazon order, but all the local places are sold out right now.

Oh well, shiznit happens. :angry:

[slip81]

Man, I got screwed on this thing, I ordered it from Amazon on October 24th, a pre-order no less, and they keep pushing back the shipping date. I talked to some people from Amazon's customer service, and they are apologizing for it, but they still don't have the damn thing in stock right now. So I'm gonna have to wait at least another week for this thing, maybe even longer. It sucks, cause all the local stores are sold out. I would just buy it at a local store and then cancel my Amazon order, but all the local places are sold out right now.

Oh well, shiznit happens. :angry:

Too bad you don't live near me, we never sell out of stuff. But then again there are at least 30 - 40 locations in an 18 mile radius that sell games/movies/electronics and the like.

[hezeuschrist]

Well I didn't pick it up, but I guess I'll be asking for it this Xmas then.

[diskoboy]

A bit of good news - supposedly these drives are PC and Mac compatible..

PC owners have to hunt for drivers.
Mac owners - it reads automatically, but you have no means of watching any HD-movies yet because the OS doesn't support it yet..

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/13/making-your-xbox-360-hd-dvd-drive-pc-compatible/