Philosphical question regarding sealed games ...

[Vroomfunkel]

I have a sealed Panzer Dragoon Saga (which I am currently selling).

In the post, the package received a knock and one of the discs has come off the holder, inside the box. If you tip the box, you can hear the CD slide from one end to the other.

It is therefore possible that the disc might have incurred a scratch whilst sliding around in the box.

The question is ... does this matter? Technically the disc is in a state of uncertainty, much like Schroedinger's cat. You'll never know unless you open the box. But if you don't ever open the box, does it matter anyway?

I mean, theoretically, if you are never going to play the game, or even open it to see the disc, then it shouldn't make a hoot of difference. But my hunch is that most sealed game collectors like to buy these things because of the perceived 'perfectness'.

So, for example, if there had been a manufacturing error and the wrong disc had been placed in the box, it wouldn't matter to them because there is no way that you could ever know. But a loose disc is verifiably in a 'less perfect' state than one that is on the holder, whether scratched or not. And the possibility of a scratch would further raise the spectre of a 'less than perfect' acquisition.

That's my theory anyway ... anyone want to chime in? :)

Vroomfunkel

[davepesc]

To me, it's worse than that.

I wouldn't consider the condition of the disc "unknown." When I hear it rattling around, I assume it's scratched pretty badly.

If it were my game, I'd open it and test. I think this is a situation where "tested-working" trumps "sealed OMGtehRAREZ!!!1!!"

[Smithy]

Don't the CD's in PDS come in paper holding "things" though, preventing them from getting scratched? Or am I thinking of something else.

But yes, it is def. worse than no rattling =)

[evil_genius]

I deffinitely would not open it and disclose the information in the description.

[gepeto]

I tell you of all the luck. Man that is a tough choice. It had to happen to one of the most rare most revered games out there.

Well I would not open it because whoever get buys it will be so happy it is sealed and They can truly say it is a new game.

I find the sound is alot worse than the actual damage if there is any at all. Don't let it fool you into cheapening the price because one came loose. If you offer a discount and he opens it and it is perfect you lose. That is the chance we take as buyers of games. The sealed copy was most likely on the shelves for many years and not shaken like a martini.

I had a loose game like that yesterday panicked opened it up looked for scratches none.

Last but not least. The saturn had to me what seem to me some of the best scracth resistant disc out there. To me (In my experiences a scratch on a saturn disk was deserved).

I mean the psx would have mysterious scratches from a cloth wipe.

Now that I think about it no need to feel bad odds are heavily in your favor that the disc is alright. I trust sega.

Plus it is sealed and that is the magic word. if he doesn't want it somebody will. If you relist and put in the info it will still sell maybe that will ease your conscience.

Another way to look at it if you were the buyer and the game arrived like that would you be pissed at the seller.
If so then relist with that fact in the auction. You will still get your money.

[Zing]

I believe it can be safely assumed that the loose disc lowers the perceived value for both sealed collectors and those that simply wish to play the game.

[roushimsx]

Like smithy said, they're in little protective sleeves. jiggle it around until it locks back into place ;)

http://roushimsx.shackspace.com/100_4215.jpg


....but yea, you should disclose it. It'd be kinda shady not to.

[InsaneDavid]

The saturn had to me what seem to me some of the best scracth resistant disc out there. To me (In my experiances a scracth on a saturn disk was deserved).

I noticed that too, and if a Saturn game is really beat up most of the time it still works fine. I have a copy of Darius Gaiden that looks like someone ground it against gravel and it plays no problem.

I wouldn't worry too much, not much at all can happen to a loose in case PDS due to the sleeves.

[carnage6]

You can have bigger problems with sealed games than that. I remember opening a new, mint, factory sealed Mr. Bones for Saturn to play and discovering to my horror that not just one but both discs were not there. This was a factory error and if I had spent more than $3 on it I would have been really pissed.

PG

[Nez]

Not all discs are in the paper binder disc one is on a holder just like any other saturn sega cd game. So that maybe what the disc came off of.

Edited to fix my horrible grammar. HORRIBLE!

[XxMe2NiKxX]

On a related note, I'm intersted in buying that... could you PM me with an idea of how much you're looking to get for it?

[Vroomfunkel]

Well, to clarify, this is a PAL copy, and so all the discs are on holders and none of them are in paper sleeves.

Actually, I am selling it on eBay currently, and I have mentioned everything in the description - since it is a sealed game, and anyone who collects such things is definitionally very picky then it would seem foolish not to mention all aspects.

MY query really was more the curious sort ... supposing someone bought it fully intending to never open it, in what way would it really matter if a disc was loose inside? Or even scratched? In terms of anything that you are going to use it for, the state of the contents won't make any difference at all if you don't actually open it ... but nevertheless the people who would intend never to open it are probably the ones most likely to be put off by a disc being loose inside. Kinda paradoxical in a way?

Anyways .. if you want to see it, I've posted a link in the Everything Ebay (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79313) forum

Vroomfunkel

[Videogamerdaryll]

Too bad there isn't a way to get the disc back into place without opening it..Good Luck with the sale..
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My experience with sealed games.
I had to open up a very rare game once that was sealed ..Opening it cost me on the value of the game....
I opened it at the store where I bought because the store wasn't a trustful store.(IMO they had no clue on the value of the game but were tricky)
They sold sealed games and resealed games..I could not verify if the game was resealed until I looked into what the real seal looked like.(found out later the game I had bought had it's real seal)
I didn't trust the place as they had sold me so called sealed games that had the wrong games in them.. x_x

I did not want to sell the rare game "sealed" and not know for sure what was in the case..Plus I had no proof that the game was in the case.
A buyer could remove the game and say the game in the case wasn't the right one...(I'd have no proof and may had to refund for the high amount it sold for)

I may have lost money opening the sealed game but I felt better knowing that the game was in it when I sold it.......and that it worked..
I really don't like selling sealed games...I can't verify what's in them..

[Steven]

In my Saturn US buying experience, I've had numerous US games sliding around in their big bulky US cases. Everytime I open it in fear that it's scratched to hell, oddly enough it isn't, and works fine. Them Saturn CDs are tough cookies, let me tell 'ya.

I say you should put that piece of info in your auction (that a CD is loose in the box). That way you're totally honest about your item. Chances are, you'll still get a pretty good bid.

[Vroomfunkel]

I have mentioned the loose disc in the auction. In a way I am not too fussed what it actually goes for - I already sold the game once for £250. It was sent by insured postage, and when the damage happened they issued £150 compensation for it, but they buyer returned it to me for a refund because he only wanted a perfect copy.

Unless this one ends for less than £100 - which I really doubt that it will - then I am pretty much certain not to lose out.

I was a bit worried about whether the P.O. would actually pay out the compensation I asked for, given that it would probably seem a bit of an odd thing to ask that much money for what is basically very minor cosmetic damage - but I sent them the original auction end page, and stated that I was claiming the difference between the sale price and the average used copy price, and they didn't query it (although I had to send the game and the postal packaging in to them).

In fact, the average used price is well below £100 at the moment, but I reckon that this one is still in good enough condition to go over £100. We'll see ...

re: disc scratches.

Not only do Saturn discs not scratch easily, even when they do the Saturn will generally play them with no problem. I've had all manner of scratched up discs before - one copy of Guardian Heroes even with a gash right through the silvering of the disc - you could see through it! - but it still played fine.

Unlike the PS1 / PS2 which spat out read errors if there was so much as a speck of dust on the disc ...

Vroomfunkel

[Ed Oscuro]

Remember the Astrocade? Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't? There's nothing wrong with it - shake it, no jumble of parts (well, not that I've been shaking it) - but there's always that possibility...

I am actually going to open a "sealed" copy of Dracula X for the PC-Engine which wasn't actually sealed - got it from some site or other a few years ago, and if I recall correctly it's an obvious reseal. Just need to check out the condition and such.

Personally, I almost LIKE it better when games have just a little bit of aging/wear, seems much more likely to be real then :D

[cyberfluxor]

If you're just selling it then ship it out and say that's apart of the insurance policy! If it gets all scratched up when they open it from bouncing around, they don't know if it was prior or not because it's sealed. Insure that baby up!

But truthfully, if I were collecting it, on a shelf it goes for good. But because I don't collect for sealed and all, I would rip it open and play the game. This is why I don't buy sealed games, because I know someone out there wants to keep it sealed and more rare. I wouldn't be able to NOT play a game I buy.

[vincewy]

Actually I'd open it and make sure the disc is fine, BECAUSE, unlike Dreamcast, Saturn games can be resealed with shrinkwrap and all seams are on the corner, unlike certain Dreamcast factory shrinkwrap that has a flip on the back, if it's scratched, get it resurface and it'll look just like new.

My buddy runs a store and he can seal with shrinkwrap with beauty (I call him professional sealer), current systems' games that are most likely to have loose disc(s) inside

Gamecube>PS2>Xbox (it has firmer/deeper disc holder than PS2)

[anagrama]

Actually I'd open it and make sure the disc is fine, BECAUSE, unlike Dreamcast, Saturn games can be resealed with shrinkwrap and all seams are on the corner, unlike certain Dreamcast factory shrinkwrap that has a flip on the back, if it's scratched, get it resurface and it'll look just like new.

My buddy runs a store and he can seal with shrinkwrap with beauty (I call him professional sealer), current systems' games that are most likely to have loose disc(s) inside


If you look at the auction, it's a PAL game in a hard plastic seal as used in various French retail chains. Not something that could be re-shrinked.

[snes_collector]

When I bought my copy of Chaos Field awhile back, the disk was loose, but it still plays fine, and didn't get many(if any) scratches on it. So as long as you don't go shaking it, the game should be fine.

[vincewy]

If you look at the auction, it's a PAL game in a hard plastic seal as used in various French retail chains. Not something that could be re-shrinked.

Doh, didn't realize it's PAL version, anyway, in US, all new games of N64/Saturn/SNES/Genesis/Jaguar/32X/Sega CD come with heat shrinkwrap, one reason I'll never collect those games sealed, too easy to reseal and they'll become indistinguishable from original factory seal.

[PentiumMMX]

Personally, I think the concept of a sealed game collection is stupid. I do have a few (2 INTV games I got when I bought my system at Goodwill, but I plan on finding used copies to actualy play), but for the most part, having an enitre collection of games you never want to play is dumb.

Games are ment to be enjoyed, not sit on a shelf. Besides, how do you know if the right game is even in there? What if the disc is floating around in the case, getting scared up?, what if there isn't anything in the case to begin with?

[anagrama]

Did you really have to drag up a year-old thread to rehash an argument that has already been had dozens of times?
Some people like to collect sealed games - fair play to them. I don't personally, but also don't see any point in whining about what other people choose to do with their money.

[Frica89]

Personally, I think the concept of a sealed game collection is stupid. I do have a few (2 INTV games I got when I bought my system at Goodwill, but I plan on finding used copies to actualy play), but for the most part, having an enitre collection of games you never want to play is dumb.

Games are ment to be enjoyed, not sit on a shelf. Besides, how do you know if the right game is even in there? What if the disc is floating around in the case, getting scared up?, what if there isn't anything in the case to begin with?

i agree...collecting sealed copies defeats the entire purpose of the video games. I guess some people are into it, but I am certainly not.

"Hey come look at this totally awesome game I have that I will never get to play!!"

[cessnaace]

I have a sealed Panzer Dragoon Saga (which I am currently selling).

In the post, the package received a knock and one of the discs has come off the holder, inside the box. If you tip the box, you can hear the CD slide from one end to the other.

It is therefore possible that the disc might have incurred a scratch whilst sliding around in the box.

The question is ... does this matter? Technically the disc is in a state of uncertainty, much like Schroedinger's cat. You'll never know unless you open the box. But if you don't ever open the box, does it matter anyway?

I mean, theoretically, if you are never going to play the game, or even open it to see the disc, then it shouldn't make a hoot of difference. But my hunch is that most sealed game collectors like to buy these things because of the perceived 'perfectness'.

So, for example, if there had been a manufacturing error and the wrong disc had been placed in the box, it wouldn't matter to them because there is no way that you could ever know. But a loose disc is verifiably in a 'less perfect' state than one that is on the holder, whether scratched or not. And the possibility of a scratch would further raise the spectre of a 'less than perfect' acquisition.

That's my theory anyway ... anyone want to chime in? :)

Vroomfunkel


While I have quite a few sealed games, they are for systems that I don't own. Lynx, for example. It makes no sense to keep a game sealed. Play your games, and they will feel the love.


Mark