The Amish play Sega Saturn in *The Devils Playground*

[fishsandwich]

I rented a documentary called The Devils Playground that chronicles what the Amish call "Rumspringa." It's the period of time (starting at the age of 16) where Amish teenagers are allowed to experience the outside world (smoking, doing drugs, driving, partying, going to malls.)

Seems the hardest things to let go of (if they choose to join the church and go full Amish) are cars, alcohol, television, and video games.

One guy ends up dealing crystal meth until he's busted, rolls on another dealer, receives death threats, and moves back home. It shows him using a car battery to power up a small television and a SEGA SATURN. His game of choice? Off-World Interceptor (a 3DO racing combat game that was ported over to the Saturn early in its brief life.) He even had a Nights analog controller.

I thought it was pretty cool.

I'm done now.


http://www.lib.umich.edu/filmvid/covers/playground.jpg

http://www.vidgames.com/ps/screens/offwi2.jpg

[MegaDrive20XX]

:evil: Yes! Yes! Give in to the LIGHT BULB of Satan! and now you can MIRCOWAVE your own butter! Muhahaha!

It just seems sad to me, to watch Amish folk. Reminds me of Sally Struthers and help the children foundation...

"We should respect their culture" How? I feel so damn depressed every time I see them trying to make butter.

I can understand the religious aspect of it, but to go that far to try to stop "Change" in your world can really take a toll and this movie is a prime example of the outcome of isolation.

[mills]

..Amish teenagers are allowed to experience the outside world (smoking, doing drugs, driving, partying, going to malls.)


I'm pretty sure there's more to the outside world than these things!

[fishsandwich]

..Amish teenagers are allowed to experience the outside world (smoking, doing drugs, driving, partying, going to malls.)


I'm pretty sure there's more to the outside world than these things!

I'm POSITIVE there's more to the outside world that smoking, doing drugs, driving, partying, and going to malls, but those were the things the documentary covered since they are more interesting to the documentary-watching public than going to the post office, eating at Pizza Hut, or changing a lightbulb.

Great comment. Thanks for playing.

[googlefest1]

wow im interested in seeing this -- not to see amish people becomeing crack whore saturn gamers but hopefully they cover more of the psychology they are dealing with

i had no idea the amish alow something like this -- i had some clue but i didn'e exactly expect these extremes

and why at age 16? why not 20 or 30 - 16 is such an impressionable age - im surprised any of them comeback

man the shock they must experiance --

i realy have no idea about amish life but i always thought they were heavily sheltered

[fishsandwich]

wow im interested in seeing this -- not to see amish people becomeing crack whore saturn gamers but hopefully they cover more of the psychology they are dealing with

i had no idea the amish alow something like this -- i had some clue but i didn'e exactly expect these extremes

and why at age 16? why not 20 or 30 - 16 is such an impressionable age - im surprised any of them comeback

man the shock they must experiance --

i realy have no idea about amish life but i always thought they were heavily sheltered

I didn't mean to start a discussion on Amish life, but yeah, it is pretty darn interesting. It seems that Amish children are indeed heavily sheltered until the age of 16. The Rumspringa can last for just a couple of months to several years or even a lifetime.

It seems that the Amish do not baptise their infants... they wait under the children are 16 and then let them make the decision themselves. They were persecuted for this back in the day in Europe which is why many of them relocated to the United States.

The documentary shows many of the children going buck-wild when they hit 16. One non-Amish girl said that "The Amish kids throw the best parties." Their parties did look amazing. Many of the Amish parents own lots of land with huge barns on them and let the kids party at home. Hundred, even thousands of Amish teenagers show up from Amish communities all over the country.

Odd fact: Most males dress "English" when they go through Rumspringa (they dress in contemporary clothes) but most females do not. You see them drinking and smoking at these parties wearing their traditional dresses and head coverings.

Amazing fact: 90% of all Amish children choose to stay with the Amish community and become members of the Amish church when they reach adulthood. To join the church and then leave again can lead to excommunication and it doesn't happen very often,

PS2's (and that one Saturn) figured prominently into the lives of the kids who went on Rumspringa.

Speaking of the Saturn... anyone remember that old Volkwagen commercial with Daytona USA in it? I didn't think so.

:/

[rbudrick]

..Amish teenagers are allowed to experience the outside world (smoking, doing drugs, driving, partying, going to malls.)


I'm pretty sure there's more to the outside world than these things!

Of course. You forgot sex and Rock and Roll.

-Rob

[Ed Oscuro]

Of course. You forgot sex and Rock and Roll.
Did somebody say good-looking girls? LOL

[Steven]

LOL OWIE sucks. On Saturn anyhow. Yucky LOL

[Pantechnicon]

i had no idea the amish alow something like this -- i had some clue but i didn'e exactly expect these extremes

and why at age 16? why not 20 or 30 - 16 is such an impressionable age - im surprised any of them comeback

man the shock they must experiance --

i realy have no idea about amish life but i always thought they were heavily sheltered

You've actually managed to answer your own questions very well here.

1. The Rumspringa starts at 16 precisely because individuals are so impressionable at that time in their lives.

2. It is shocking for many of them to see what they've been missing out on, but that doesn't mean all of them come to conclude that they've been deprived of anything (I'll expand on this in a minute).

3. I wouldn't say the Amish are "sheltered" so much as they engage in a willful segregation. Let me put it this way: As far as I know there are no Amish communities surrounding themselves with concertina wire, armed men and dobermans, unlike some religious extremist groups.

I admit that I know very little about the Amish, but as a devout evangelical Christian I've always thought this Rumspringa was an excellent idea. Think about it. The Amish raise and educate their children in the doctrines of the culture for 16 years, then offer them the chance to make a willful and informed decision about whether they want to continue with it. It says something about the conviction that the Amish have in the moral rightness of their oddball ways that they can say in essence to their children "If you think that the regular world has more to offer you than our way of life does, go on and find out for yourself."

Don't be surprised, then, that so many Amish come back into the fold, ready to assume a role as mature adults. You can argue that they've had 16 years of indoctrination into Amish culture, and are therefore incapable of making an informed decision, but that's a weak argument. "Indoctrination" in this sense is simply a criticism we use when we disagree with how our neighbors are raising their kids. I read the Bible to my kids every night, thus indoctrinating my own children in the tenets of my faith, as is my right and obligation as a parent (omg, that's mental abuse - somebody call a social worker!). A 4th generation labor union member has had just as much "indoctrination" as the kids growing up in the Amish societies. And are they really any worse off, doctine-wise, than the latchkey kids who come home to an empty house from school, watch MTV for 2 or 3 hours a night, then spend their weekends schlepping around a mall dreaming about buying more crap? The Amish may be onto something pretty wise with this Rumspringa thinga...

[/steps down from soapbox] Sounds like an interesting documentary. I'll have to look for it.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yes, because everybody knows that 16 years of fantasies is perfect for preparing entry to the real world. :/

Sorry if that sounds prejudiced, but ya know...kids who leave the Amish community are, on the whole, worse for their lack of preparation. Easy prey for the big world out there, and on top of it all they're getting bad teeth and lousy fashion sense.

[Mattiekrome]

Interesting read... Might pick up the movie sometime, I like stuff like this

[CreamSoda]

LOL OWIE sucks. On Saturn anyhow. Yucky LOL

That game sucks period!

No offense. 8-)

[Aussie2B]

Yes, because everybody knows that 16 years of fantasies is perfect for preparing entry to the real world. :/

Sorry if that sounds prejudiced, but ya know...kids who leave the Amish community are, on the whole, worse for their lack of preparation. Easy prey for the big world out there, and on top of it all they're getting bad teeth and lousy fashion sense.

I agree with Ed. There's a reason why so many of these Amish kids go nuts during Rumspringa; smoking, drinking, doing drugs, being promiscuous, going to wild parties, what have you. Some are so screwed up from the experience that they fall into prostitution, drug addiction, homelessness, etc. Now I don't have any statistics to back me up, but it's my suspicion that the average Amish kid on Rumspringa is going to be more open to doing "bad" things than the average kid growing up in the real world because they don't know what they hell they're doing. They're not prepared, they're told they're allowed to see what the real world has to offer, so they just blindly try everything that was forbidden under Amish life. A normal child is going to be raised from any early age that there are plenty of bad things out there, and they're told that they should avoid them (and why). An Amish community will simply pretend that these things don't exist. I personally have never smoked, never done drugs, never gotten drunk (don't even like alcohol), never gone "partying", never gotten into a fight, never stolen, etc. etc., and all of this is independent of religion. I was raised well, simple as that. My parents were far from sheltering or controlling, but raised me well enough that I could make wise decisions on my own. Amish children aren't raise like that, sadly, so everything they know proves useless outside of their little self-created world.

Meh, sorry for getting so off-topic. o_O The conversation just struck my fancy.

[Raven1280]

I personally have never smoked, never done drugs, never gotten drunk (don't even like alcohol), never gone "partying", never gotten into a fight, never stolen, etc. etc., and all of this is independent of religion. just struck my fancy.

That my friend is because like the rest of us you are a video game nerd! Never got invited to the cool kids parties to try smoking or drugs. Never had the money to buy smokes, drugs or alcohol because you spend all your money on rare finds. Never got in a fight because you might break your gamer tumbs!

[Aussie2B]

I kept my gaming secret from most people (since kids think you're strange if you're a chick into video games), and I didn't start collecting until I was already pretty much an adult. :P But yeah, I do find games a much more worthwhile use of my time than those things, because well... they ARE. :)

[boatofcar]

Yes, because everybody knows that 16 years of fantasies is perfect for preparing entry to the real world. :/

Sorry if that sounds prejudiced, but ya know...kids who leave the Amish community are, on the whole, worse for their lack of preparation. Easy prey for the big world out there, and on top of it all they're getting bad teeth and lousy fashion sense.

I agree with Ed. There's a reason why so many of these Amish kids go nuts during Rumspringa; smoking, drinking, doing drugs, being promiscuous, going to wild parties, what have you. Some are so screwed up from the experience that they fall into prostitution, drug addiction, homelessness, etc. Now I don't have any statistics to back me up,

Stop right there. Come back when you do.

[EnzoSangiorgio]

the amish and evangelical christians...

hoo boy. x_x

[keiblerfan69]

Those crazy amish. I'm gonna go finish curning the butter.(not a sexual reference)

[googlefest1]

actualy what i was geting at but didnt write when i mentioned the age was that f they wanted thier children to comback i would have thought that sending them out at a less impresionable age would have a better chance of success.

i understand how its a part of thier fatih and may be thats why i dont exactly agree with what they do. The way i am now i would want to do what ever possible to make sure my child would comback - safe. No matter my faith, Gods plan, or the devils temptation. I know i would be extreamly heart broken as a parent if my child went on one of these things and never came back or came back mentaly and physicaly broken. The strength in thier faith or belifes is amazing.

I took a look on the internet for this film - not much out there - im guessing it may be a hard find at the local video stores

i was extreamly surprised to see that 90% comeback

my other question is where do they get the money to survive out in the world

im also wondering if the 90% return rate is not a result of the children geting burned out by thier wild behavior. (with out seeing the movie or knowing much about the amish - only what was disscussed here and on review sites) I think that possibly the children are so agressivly persuing the vices that they dont realy get to see the world - just the seedy side of it. I wonder how successful of a return rate they would have if the children met the right people experienced the more wonderous things. Like that one girl who left to persue an education from seeing that part of the world rather than debauchery.

Sorry to have derailed your post about the Saturn in the documentary. I was just so surprised by the related material i had to make a coment. I didn't think it would have carried on like this. But since it did i think it turned into an interesting topic - not exactly game related though

[fishsandwich]

Some are so screwed up from the experience that they fall into prostitution, drug addiction, homelessness, etc. Now I don't have any statistics to back me up.

Like Boatofcar said... stop right there. Go get some.



Here are a few...

The Amish Church originated in Switzerland in 1525

Sunday church lasts for several hours, followed by several hours of community socializing

150,000 Amish in the United States

The Amish vote in their local elections, especially if the issues or candidates are addressing things important to the Amish

The largest group of Amish is in Ohio (where the documentary was filmed)

Familes average seven children

Less than 4% of Amish children suffer from autism, much lower than normal.

Only 4% of the Amish suffer from obesity, compared to over 30% of the normal population.



The documentary had many statistics and I'll repeat one yet again... 90% of all Amish teenagers eventually go on to join the church and live the Amish lifestyle with no cars, no TV, no videogames, no alcohol. There's obviously something bringing them back into the the fold: family.

In fact, the current retention rate of 90% is the highest it has EVER been since the Amish church was founded in the United States. Perhaps these children go out into our world and see clearly what we're become blind to... the escalating violence, a divorce rate over 50%, school shootings, child abuse, rampant alcoholism and drug abuse, the horrific effects of crystal meth addiction. I'm not saying the Amish don't have problems (they have premarital pregnancies just like "normal" people, spousal abuse, and a society that clearly places the man at the head of the household with a subserviant wife whose main job is to produce children) but they do have a very peaceful society. Their crime rates are exceptionally low. Their families are exceptionally close. Neighbors know each other very well and help one another when the need arises. The entire communities are like extended families. I can see the appeal that a traditional Amish lifestyle would hold.

The Amish may live somewhat sheltered lives, but they certainly aren't blind to the outside world. Teenagers are encouraged to remain living at home during the rumspringa even though the teens often drink, smoke, and dress English. Little brothers and sisters get to see and hear the experiences of their older siblings. Huge parties are held on the Amish farms. A car-driving, cigarette-smoking, hangover-ridden teen is encouraged to live at home during the rumspringa. You'll see beat-up cars next to horse-drawn buggies. The guy from my original post had a TV and a Saturn at his parent's house and played them in his own room... he just had to use a car battery to run them.

Many of the Amish work at regular jobs and make normal salaries. I imagine a household that shuns luxury items and that doesn't have electricity, expensive electronics, credit cards, car payments, and car maintenance bills might have a fair amount of cash reserves.

Interesting fact: Many Amish parents allow their teenagers to go on what is called a "bed date." Dating teenagers who appear to be serious about each other are allowed a date where they sleep in the same bed. I'm not sure what goes on... the documentary did not go into great detail. Many teenage Amish couples are allowed a lot of unsupervised time together and it wasn't unusual to see Amish teenagers hanging out in bedrooms with closed doors.

Don't get me wrong... I could never live like the Amish do. "English" people rarely join the Amish church as adults and Amish teenagers are encouraged to only date other Amish teenagers (although they are not forbidden to date "normal" teens.) I love my car, my TV, my videogames, and my alternative lifestyle to much to give everything up. I simply couldn't go Amish, but I do recognize the appeal of the Amish community and its people.

The documentray taught me a lot about the Amish, and it was just presenting one small aspect of their society... there is much to be learned by those who are curious. I'd like to learn more. Looks like I'm going to be googling "Amish" today!



On a semi-related note... I like Off-World Interceptor for both the Saturn and the 3DO. It certainly hasn't aged well, but it was cool as hell back in the day when 3-D graphics were a novelty. Yes, I'm getting old. Yes, the game generally sucks now. But it's still enjoyable to hook up a Saturn, put in Off-World, turn on the TV, and travel back to 1995 when this game blew my mind.

:D

http://www.findmeagame.com/images/3/609613.jpg

Here's a comparison between the Saturn and PSone versions...

http://www.gamezero.com/team-0/articles/head_head/off_world_interceptor_extreme/

[Pantechnicon]

fishsandwich: Props to you looking at Amish culture in an even-handed way, seeing both the good and the eccentricity of it all.

Concerning the "bed date" thing, I've heard of something they do that may or may not be the same thing called "bundling". Basically it's letting the teens sleep together with all their clothes on. Apparently the Amish either don't talk about it much out of propriety or it's not a widespread custom. It seems to me to be superior method of dealing with the issue teen lust than what secular society thinks works i.e - have the school nurse give the kid a pack of condoms and the phone number to the local abortion clinic.

Either way, one of the things I find most remarkable about these people with their Rumspringas and Bundlings, is how they are willing to address issues of morality and sexuality with their young adults, in innovative and direct ways, and in spite of the stereotype that their just a bunch of primitive prudes.

And now for a quote:

[EDIT - I removed the quote. It was potentially flame-ish. My apologies to all as I should know better. Anybody who saw the quote and wished to discuss it feel free to PM. - pzc]

(/I'm also sorry for being so Off-Topic with this)

[calthaer]

I recently watched the movie Easy Rider for the first time recently.

It's funny, because with the notable exception of the drugs and free love, the austere lifestyle of those crazy hippies way out in the wilderness that Capt America and Billy visit wasn't all that dissimilar to that of the Amish.

[Masco73]

This is funny because I never knew about the Rumspringa until I watched this show:

http://epguides.com/AmishintheCity/


It was basically putting these Amish kids going through rumspringa with american kids in a MTV real world type situation. Basically it came off as most of the American kids looked like lazy spoiled asses, while the Amish were hard working and less judgemental. The american kids did get a little better towards the end.

If you get a chance to see it, check it out. It was pretty informative.

[qbertandernie]

i go to a cottage in michigan with a large amish population. many of the amish own large amounts of land and somehave huge farms, so the money comes from their income froms elling livestock or produce. imagine not having to buy electricity and having a community that builds your house for you. these people farm using animals and sell their wares to mainstream america, and end up with a lot of money as a result.

this is just in response to the question of where the money came from...im not even going to get involved in the rest of this discussion.

[googlefest1]

not knowing much about the amish and just basing opinions on what little i know i whished i could live in a place like that -- with the exceptions of being able to keep technology and education

one point made in this off topic discusion has me questioning what do they do with people that have a high level education - like for example an outsider that wants to join the church but has a high level education - or what if a teen that goes out on rumspringa stays out long enough to get a GED and a 2 year degree and then comes back to the church -- what hapends to them are they shund for acepting too much of the devils gifts? are those the ones that rise to the top of the high archy and run things as a head elder

i tried to find this documentary at the local video store and ofcourse they dont have it - this kind of sucks - i didnt want to have to buy it to see it

on another note
i recently purchased off world interceptor for the PS1 and i also liked it - at first i was disapointed it was a car game (being that it was disk only and i hoped it was space shooter) but it grew on me and got hooked for a night

thanks for that link compareing the ps1 and saturn - what a diference - but it makes me think - did they code the saturn version the proper way or did they take the easy road and thats why its looks so inferior to the ps1

[fishsandwich]

thanks for that link compareing the ps1 and saturn - what a diference - but it makes me think - did they code the saturn version the proper way or did they take the easy road and thats why its looks so inferior to the ps1

Off-Road Interceptor Extreme was an EARLY Saturn/PSone game and coders hadn't come to grips with the Saturn's complex architecture (some never did.) Games that took old 3DO program code and tweaked it to work on the PSone came out ok. Games that took the same code and tried to rework it for the Saturn ended up with a sloppy-looking game. It took years for developers outside of Sega to get comfortable with the Saturn's difficult-to-program chipset, and by then it was dead. Damn. Many late-generation Saturn games were mostly devoid of pop-up and fogging... and matched and occasionally even exceeded their PSone counterparts in terms of graphics. The best-looking Saturn games were generally produced by Sega itself. Traveler's Tales did a fine job with Sonic R, though.

:/

[Aussie2B]

Stop right there. Come back when you do.

So I'm not allowed to post my thoughts unless I have web sites to link to and exact numbers to quote regarding every comment I make, eh? Just like everybody else does, right? And just because I don't have an exact statistic to back up one specific comment, I must know NOTHING on the subject as a whole, right?

Why don't you come back when you ditch the attitude?

[MASTERWEEDO]

My friends totally corrupted this one Amish kid. So far he has 3 D.U.I.'s and has been arrested like 5 or 6 times. I dont think that he's allowed back to the amish community.

[drwily008]

Most of the teens who go back to the chuch after rumspringa do NOT completely abandon what they picked up during their experience.

EXAMPLES:

When I used to party, I met up with some friends and they had an Amish guy over their house. I can't remember his name, but he was probably around 25 to 30 and smoked weed every day...several times a day.

If you drive around in the "amish area" around 40 miles away from where I grew up, many of them have set up electricity and T.V. antennas.

Several of them also have small stores with the women running it watching T.V. while they are bored. Almost all of these store sell manufactured products with their items inside. Such as a tupperware container with a printed label listing the contents (jams, fruits, gravy etc.).

They will also build you one hell of a house for dirt cheap!

Unfortunately they do not use banks and generally keep $1000 - $10000's on them, so they get robbed by asshole criminals.

For the most part they are great people, I have never met one with a bad attitude.

[Porkchop]

I live in a neighborhood surounded by Amish Farms, so I see Amish a lot.

In response to how they make money here are some of the services and products I buy from local Amish:

Small engine repair - Lawn mower, chain saw
Furniture - take them a picture and they will make it
Welding
Firewood
Small Buildings - for storing my video game collection
Fresh Produce
Baked goods
Live Plants and flowers

They have lots of ways to make money and can use power tools just like anyone else for their business. They have two rules about electric power.

1. It can not be used in their houses. That why the kid had to use a battery to run the TV.
2. They must generate their own power, no connecting to the electric grid.

Many of them use wind mills to pump water for their house and farm and have propane friges like thoses used by campers.

The 90% retention is not suprising. How many of you at age 16 went out and lived on your own. No family or friends to help out and give you a place to live. The Amish run their own school system for so education is limited to the basic 3 Rs. It is not a hard choice, go live on the streets or join a comunity that will take care of you.

Other interesting notes:

- If the 16 year old does not join the Church they must leave the comunity and live on their own but they may keep in contact with their family.

- If they leave after joining the Church it is if they died. No contact with the family is allowed.

- Amish comunities limit the size of of each group to 150. Once they go over that number they split into two groups. People in general seem to not be able to deal with more that 150 other people. The Gore Company, makers of Gore-Tex, keeps all of they business units and factories smaller than 150 people.

It would be interesting to see if video game studios with less than 150 people on the team make better games faster. :hmm:

[Fighter17]

Unfortunately they do not use banks and generally keep $1000 - $10000's on them, so they get robbed by asshole criminals.


That sucks.

[googlefest1]

ive only vacationed near amish country and it was a real nice place to visit - only time i was anoyed was when there were horse buggies blocking trafic - pensilvania should widen the roads in the area where they live - i felt bad for the people choking on exhaust and having to put up with alot of honking

house building huh? do they only build cabin type of houses or could they take a blue print and build from that ( a more modern house)

for the guy that has had buildings made by the amish -- do you need to get permits for their stuff or is it just ok in your state to get them to build something on your property

[Porkchop]

for the guy that has had buildings made by the amish -- do you need to get permits for their stuff or is it just ok in your state to get them to build something on your property

They build them at their farm and then pay someone with a truck to haul them to your house. They are set on blocks so they are considered the same as a building you buy at Lowes or Home Depot and set up youself. Mine is 12' by 32', holds a lot of stuff. They make them big enough to put a car in with roll up doors. The guy I bought my from makes the floors out of 1" rough cut oak with plywood on top of that. The floors are strong enough to hold a car. They build good stuff.