Run'n Gun games: Get you the hot bullets of shotgun to die!!

[Ed Oscuro]

This is an ambitious topic, but I'm working on a rather ambitious project - the Contra H.Q. (http://contra.classicgaming.gamespy.com/welcome.htm) is going to expand into other game series as well. The criteria for inclusion, loosely defined, is that it has to be a single character, on foot or flying (because we don't want to exclude Battle Mania), and the focus has to be on shooting (and sometimes throwing, 'cuz that'd knock out some legitimate shooters as well such as Toki or Mystic Warriors), though Ghosts'n Goblins would be excluded as it's already got its own fansite.

If it's a spaceship, I can't count it for the same reasons. Kinda strange way to classify things, but this should give coverage to a wide selection of games that have gone relatively uncovered up to now (aside from the occasional classic gaming plug or what have you).

Edit: Yes, that's rather vague, isn't it? Well, it might help to think of it this way: It should have gameplay very much similar to a gameplay style seen in Contra. That means sidescrolling run and gun games are in; top down (Commando style) games count, and third person ones as well (not just because of the PlayStation Contras - think of the corridor sequences from the first Contra).

Here's a number of shooters, and my thoughts on them:

Contra (NES vs. arcade): The arcade version is awesome. For one, the bridge is easy to get across...The more time I spend with it the more tricks and patterns I learn. Its shortcoming is that it's far too short, especially in the later stages - the Ice Field is roughly a football field away from the end. Too short! I haven't tried out the higher difficulty levels, however. There's also an MSX2 version of the game, notable for its excellent manual with detailed diagrams of the weapons, drawings of enemies, and a map of the entire island from two perspectives (top-down, and from the side)!

Super Contra (arcade): Currently a favorite. Contra did well not because it was such an original concept - though the omnidirectional shooting was pretty new, even that had been done before - but because it was polished - and the graphics! The hodgepodge of weapon icons and silly looking weapons from the first arcade game are totally gone, and every weapon now gets its own sleek looking item drop. Shot animations are amazing, and I like the little flashing lights affixed here and there to the characters and their weapons (see the Super Contra flyer for this idea gone awry).

Battle Mania/Battle Mania 2: TS Vintage: One of my other favorite series of all time, but unfortunately limited to only two games. The control scheme is not nearly as unwieldly as it could've been, and lets you direct fire in two different directions at the same time with relative easy. You'll indirectly control up to three characters in the first title when a hostage becomes an ally! The sequel sports a rockin' soundtrack and much improved visuals along with one of the most humorous sound test interfaces I've seen yet :) Lots of humor (even silly gaijin like me will pick up on a lot of it) and all the action you could want.

Toki/JuJu Densetsu: I don't think it fair to discriminate against apes simply because they throw stone axes. Toki's a cult classic (I actually followed an eBay auction for the PCB a few days back, so I feel that's a fair statement) with great, if quirky, gameplay. It's vaguely like Chelnov, which is to say vaguely like playing Super Mario Bros. with a fire flower. Here the emphasis is on hitting everything that moves enough to knock it out. Remember: You must keep playing or I'll die [not ME, Toki's girlfriend, silly]!!! Most pathetic continue feature ever. Got a port to the Mega Drive and Genesis as "Toki: Going Ape Spit" in the western hemisphere; the Japanese version is simply "JuJu Densetsu." One of TAD's best games.

Chelnov: What's there not to like about this game? It's got the hammer and sickle of the Soviet Union right there with the Statue of Liberty, for cryin' out loud! A cheesy (but well-done) comic book intro gets you into the arcade game. The Genesis port suffers a bit from its rather ugly cinematic intro, but sports some nifty background graphics. Racing pyramids! Chelnov (Nuclear Man, The Fighter!) should please both platforming and shooting fans.

Xain'd Sleena: Very pretty Sammy game, with a nice control scheme that allows double jumps and shooting crouched or prone quite a while before Contra did it. It does suffer a bit from the straight-forward shooting only, as even with options such as an arcing grenade launcher enemies will tend to hover just out of reach of your weapons. I don't much care for the secondary shooter mode, but all said this is a great game.

FixEight: You can check out the bootleg in MAME, but the processor is only running at 5/8 the speed of the real unit, and it's missing a yamaha sound chip. It's a testament to the game's design that despite these shortcomings the bootleg is pretty enjoyable. Fixeight is Toaplan's successor to Out Zone, and while I don't believe the locations to be quite as interesting as Out Zone's, they're pretty close. There's some fantastic enemy mech design to see here, and the eight selectable players all are worth a shot. I never knew robots could scream until I played this game :)

Out Zone is amazing as well, and here's a great link for it: click (http://cdecas.free.fr/arcade/worship/outzone/faq.php#04). Great site, even if he does call Out Zone the "Sci-Fi version of the popular "Ikari Warriors" from SNK."I've found a Japanese FixEight fansite, as well, but don't have the URL handy.

Speaking of Ikari Warriors - you're familiar with SAR - Search and Rescue by now, right? I've always liked this game, but to be honest it's too easy and the whole thing's a bit of an ugly mess (especially non-human enemies). Despite the too-powerful weapon system (powering up shots annoys me, however), it's still a blast to play.

Ninja Emaki: One of my favorite games. MAME describes it best: think Commando, with a more interesting playfield.

There's many, many more games, but that's just a sampling of what's on my mind. Some other games to look out for:

Ninja Commando (Neo Geo, MVS/AES/CD)
Ninja Spirit (I wonder, Legend of Kage is a near fit as well)
Cyber-Lip (and, of course, the Metal Slug series)
Psycho-Niks Oscar (inspiration for the Turrican series!)
Soldier (Game King; see Brian Provinciano's site for a review and screenshots)
...and many more.

I'm still wondering whether the Dynamite Duke/NAM 1975/GI Joe/Cabal style game could be counted as having gameplay similar to the isometric corridor sequences from Contra...if I have my way they'll be :P

Feel free to add your thoughts!

[klausien]

Gunstar!

Both of them. Obvious though.

I don't know if Ninja Spirit really fits though. If so, you need to mention Shinobi and Shadow Dancer, both arcade.

Irem's GunForce games also fit this mold.

[Ed Oscuro]

Gunstar!

Both of them. Obvious though.
Good choice! While I might be able to think of everything I've played if I sat here for twelve hours, I just wanted to give some obscure games that were on my mind a bit of spotlight. Gunstar Heroes was the farthest thing from my mind, though.


I don't know if Ninja Spirit really fits though. If so, you need to mention Shinobi and Shadow Dancer, both arcade.
Ninja Spirit is basically Contra with doubles that hang in the air, a selection of weapons you can scroll through at any time, and shurikens instead of a gun. It fits as much as anything; the setting is just different.

The old Shinobi games (including the Genesis version of Shadow Dancer - I played that last night too) gave you a bonus for not throwing any shuriken (or firing that strange gun Joe gets in the original Shinobi), so they don't really count.


Irem's GunForce games also fit this mold.
Great games, vaguely similar graphically to Metal Slug. Kid Fenris makes a reference on his site to some people on the Undercover Cops (also by Irem) team eventually working on Metal Slug, and perhaps some people on Gun Force worked there too. I should look into that! So many game credits to check... :O

[Dire 51]

Don't forget Midnight Resistance and Forgotten Worlds!

[Ed Oscuro]

Don't forget Midnight Resistance and Forgotten Worlds!
'course not. If anybody's interested, there's actually a Midnight Resistance kit (PCB + awful, awful Romstar art) up on eBay. Personally, I'm a bit done with the game. The Genesis version's controls are unique, but not in a good way - automatic autofire feels wrong, somehow. Aside from the great music, that port feels pretty underproduced - they even cut out the poster from the first level! Even so, I'm not about to part with my shiny, shiny import copy any time soon, or my arcade flyer :)

Forgotten Worlds I like much better. Still need to find the special PC-Engine version boxed up with a controller.

[CosmicMonkey]

Gunners Heaven / Rapid Reload on the PSone, and of course the greatest run n' gun series ever: Metal Slug!

[Ed Oscuro]

I wasn't aware that Rapid Reload was Gunner Heaven's name in Europe. Thanks!

I really need to hunt that title down - I know Shou has (or had) a copy, but a few other games are just a wee bit higher on my list of titles to get right now.

[diskoboy]

Could Bangai-O! for DC and N64 be included in this category?

It's one of my faves.

That and all the Williams dual-joystick games (Robotron, Smash TV, Total Carnage)

EDIT: Oh, and more of a recent gen game - but I've been playing the hell out of Geometry Wars Evolved.

[NeoZeedeater]

I think the underrated Hewson Commodore 64 game Zamzara deserves a mention. It's European so it's a lot different than the Japanese style games already talked about but still part of the genre.
http://www.lemon64.com/index.php?mainurl=http%3A//www.lemon64.com/reviews/view.php%3Fid%3D497

Also, for overhead view action games Time Soldiers was awesome back then.

[Ed Oscuro]

Could Bangai-O! for DC and N64 be included in this category?

It's one of my faves.
Wouldn't that do better over @ shmups.com? I don't actually own the game, but I understand there to be a spaceship, and I gotta limit the list somehow LOL


That and all the Williams dual-joystick games (Robotron, Smash TV, Total Carnage)
All very good. :) I like the NES port of Smash TV a bit, very flexible control setup. Get two NES Advantage sticks, and you're all set! Even the one-pad controls are good, which is nice.


EDIT: Oh, and more of a recent gen game - but I've been playing the hell out of Geometry Wars Evolved.
Not sure where that falls; I'll look into it.

NeoZeedeater: Hillarious title screen, it's a guy in a rubber suit. I'll give it a fair shake, though :)

[Xexyz]

Don't forget about Mercs and Granada (although they could also be classified as 360 degree shmups)

Also, I don't think Battle Mania should be considered a run 'n gun. It has nothing remotely familiar to the genre. It's a shmup, which is an already well covered genre over at shmups.com. Also, Atomic Runner was a good choice. Really hard to classify this one though. A platformer/run 'n gun/shmup all in one. I personally like it, but it's a little hard to get used to. As far as the Genesis version goes, the default controlls are horrendous. Pressing a direction along with C to change what way your facing is ridiculous. I usualy switch the controls so that I can change direction by just pressing C.

[diskoboy]

Could Bangai-O! for DC and N64 be included in this category?

It's one of my faves.
Wouldn't that do better over @ shmups.com? I don't actually own the game, but I understand there to be a spaceship, and I gotta limit the list somehow LOL


That and all the Williams dual-joystick games (Robotron, Smash TV, Total Carnage)
All very good. :) I like the NES port of Smash TV a bit, very flexible control setup. Get two NES Advantage sticks, and you're all set! Even the one-pad controls are good, which is nice.


EDIT: Oh, and more of a recent gen game - but I've been playing the hell out of Geometry Wars Evolved.
Not sure where that falls; I'll look into it.

NeoZeedeater: Hillarious title screen, it's a guy in a rubber suit. I'll give it a fair shake, though :)

Bangai-O's gameplay would fall between the shmup and run & gun. But I think it's more run & gun. You have a dual contoller style setup (again, think Robotron) and dozens of enimies attacking you at once from all different directions, and the gameplay could be considered classic Williams. But you wanna talk about a weird game!! Typical Japanese weirdness abound in Bangai. I'm glad I bought this game when it came out on the DC. It was so overlooked.

[Ed Oscuro]

Don't forget about Mercs and Granada (although they could also be classified as 360 degree shmups)

Also, I don't think Battle Mania should be considered a run 'n gun. It has nothing remotely familiar to the genre. It's a shmup, which is an already well covered genre over at shmups.com.
Yes, I'm consciously trying to expand the genre to cover games without spaceships. It may seem an odd way to discriminate, but I think it works, because I want it to :)

Granada is a mech game, but hey, it fits. Mercs definitely counts. I haven't really explained what "categories" I'm grouping games by, but that's not really an issue ;) Mercs is a classic Commando-style game (hell, it's Commando's sequel!) and plays very much like the top-down sequences from Super Contra/Super C.


Also, Atomic Runner was a good choice. Really hard to classify this one though. A platformer/run 'n gun/shmup all in one.
See? It's easy! It's a platforming/run'n gun hybrid.


As far as the Genesis version goes, the default controlls are horrendous. Pressing a direction along with C to change what way your facing is ridiculous. I usualy switch the controls so that I can change direction by just pressing C.
I didn't have problems with the controls, though I don't remember if I customized it myself :)

I'll put more detail into how I'm "including" or "excluding" games in a short while.

[Ed Oscuro]

Hmm, just woke up from a nap, and the first thing I thought of was that Battle Mania does not have omnidirectional shooting. All it has in common with the run'n gun genre is that the characters are humans, and that you can run on the ground (sometimes), but Rabio Lepus can do that, too.

And I'm not about to call Rabio Lepus a run'n gun. Well, who knows, I'd like to fit the game in sometime, but not at the expense of my honesty :)

[Iron Draggon]

I second Chelnov/Atomic Runner!

So do 2D mech games qualify? If so, then I have a list:

Assault Suit Leynos/Target Earth
Assault Suit Leynos 2
Assault Suits Valken/Cybernator
Metal Warriors
Gun Force

[Ed Oscuro]

I second Chelnov/Atomic Runner!

So do 2D mech games qualify? If so, then I have a list:

Assault Suit Leynos/Target Earth
Assault Suit Leynos 2
Assault Suits Valken/Cybernator
Metal Warriors
Gun Force
Yep, that reads like a list of one of my sub-series that needs to be collected! Remember that Front Mission: Gun Hazard fits into that series, as well (possibly some of the same developers for Cybernator/ASV worked on it).

Also, I'm listening to the Zamzara SID from the High Voltage SID Collection...I'm embarassed to say I'd never listened to this before, instead opting to listen to Rob Hubbard's Commando mix or the Last Ninja games for the umteenth time! This is an amazing piece of work, which isn't surprising that it came from Maniacs of Noise. Wow!

[Teknik_SE-R]

gunsmoke--
bad dudes (maybe too DD-like tho)

[Ed Oscuro]

gunsmoke--
Yup, it's a Commando-alike (roughly speaking).


bad dudes (maybe too DD-like tho)
This is an old-fashioned beat-em-up. As I said the emphasis has to be on shooting. I'm pretty sure you don't even get a gun in this one. I was just thinking of it though - specifically Steve Martin's quote from Parenthood, when his kid loses at the game: "Maybe that's why they're called Bad Dudes." LOL

[marshmannes]

Don't forget about the underrated western game Sunset Riders. All three versions are very good games.

[Ed Oscuro]

Don't forget about the underrated western game Sunset Riders. All three versions are very good games.
Yep, mentioned those in another thread just minutes before I posted this one. If you want something similar, try Mystic Warriors (the first stage even has a drive-in theater with scenes from the Sunset Riders intro playing on the screen!)

[Haoie]

Noting of the Contra series, I'd think the best is by far the Hard Corps [Gen]. In that edition there's less of your actual "run and gun", and more very classy boss fights.

I'd note the J version has some significant differences from the US and EU versions [such as being quite a bit easier, and even an OK storyline to boot].

[Ed Oscuro]

I actually agree Haoie; right now I'm split between between that one and Super Contra (arcade) for my favorite in the series. The US/EU versus JP differences have kept me from picking up any copies besides the Japanese one.

[Steven]

I don't think I've seen a Turrican mention other than a "it was inspired by Turrican" tidbit??

[2Dskillz]

Alien Soldier

or are you doing import games?

[whoisKeel]

Alien Hominid fits this genre imo. A fun little game, if a tad on the Metal Slug Rip-Off™ category.

[Tron 2.0]

I don't supose, GainGround counts?

[Ed Oscuro]

I don't think I've seen a Turrican mention other than a "it was inspired by Turrican" tidbit??
Turrican is for me one of the defining games of the industry, even if I didn't grow up with it.

As stated before, I was going after more exotic games.

Alien Soldier: Yes. If it's a game that fits the categories of having gameplay like that found in a Contra game (preferably 2D ones, but there will have to be 3D mentions as well, Kurt's already got some up at the Contra H.Q., and I can think of more on the PSX), it can be included.

Alien Hominid, yes, you beat me to it :) We love it, bugs and all.

Gain Ground, definitely, that and GG SX (PC-Engine only, great game).

[Blitzwing256]

Gungage for the psx would be a good choice.

[Ed Oscuro]

Game looks great, thanks! More games to add, hooray!

Feel free to write up reviews for stuff, people. I'll put them up on the site. Even just mentioning games that haven't been mentioned before is a bit of a help, because it saves me a bit of time trying to think of them :)

[Teknik_SE-R]

journey to silius? has anyone mentioned this one? nice graphics at least.

and again gunsmoke

I have either been to your shrine before, or there is another shrine on the web.

[Ed Oscuro]

journey to silius? has anyone mentioned this one? nice graphics at least.

and again gunsmoke

I have either been to your shrine before, or there is another shrine on the web.
I'm collecting a bunch of links - man, some of the reviews I've found out there for obscure stuff like SAR are really well done, puts my dry "just the facts, ma'am" style to shame.

Currently, the Contra H.Q.'s page is still essentially all Kurt's work. All I've done since the takeover is add an update, edit a few links, and that's about it.

(Also, if anybody would be interested, a site redesign would be great...just throwing that out there ;)

[Iron Draggon]

Soldiers of Fortune/Chaos Engine

That was an awesome game. Had a sequel in Europe I think, but I don't recall the name of it or what system.

[Teknik_SE-R]

yup this is the site! I think the subject is very well documented. It might not be the most entertaining read (such as nesplayer reviews) but it covers almost everything you would want to know about the contra series.

Its really cool to know that all you hardcore gamers do things like this to preserve this information. Wish i had the time and dedication to do this. I'm just too interested in everything instead of just one thing

and it makes me feel like i know a celebrity @_@ LOL

[Ed Oscuro]

Soldiers of Fortune/Chaos Engine

That was an awesome game. Had a sequel in Europe I think, but I don't recall the name of it or what system.
The DP listing is a bit skimpy as home computer versions aren't counted. Think I've got a copy of this somewhere. Good game!

Also, here's another series: CT Special Forces.

I just read over @ Shmups.com's forums that Manfred Tenz worked on the PSX edition (but it looks the same as the GBA version - which is to say pretty basic, mediocre variety by PSX standards). Games in the series:

GBA
CT Special Forces: Flawed, slow, but a wholly different gameplay experience from Contra. I don't like it much, and if anybody read my overly long and boring review, you'd see why!
The two sequels (2 is Back to Hell and 3 is Bioterror) got much better, with actual running and gunning at the same time, roll moves, better level designs, all sorts of stuff.

There is a PlayStation version, and somehow I managed to find a few copies on eBay, very cheap - but now I can't find them again. Did put one on my watch list so I'll go from there again. The PSX versions came out in Europe only; there's one known as Elite Squad (not sure if this is Bioterror, which also got released with that name for the PSX in Europe, or Back to Hell).

[Steven]

Ed, I got a question. Can Soldiers of Fortune really be classified as a true run n gun? I seem to recall it was an overhead shooter a la Smash TV?

Here's a good obscure-ish run n gun:

TIME SLIP

I actually played it for the 1st time last night. It's pretty good! I had lots of fun with it, and 30 minutes blew by like nothing. I played it at 2:50 in the morning LOL I only meant to play 10 minutes or so but I kind of got into it. The bosses are really cool, and big too. Plus when zapped, they flash -- classic stuff.

http://www.digitpress.com/dpsightz/super_nes/timeslip.png

http://videogamearchive.com/dpsightz/adverts/snes/snes_timeslip.jpg

Pulled from DP database itself. Game is worth a look! I'm stuck on the HUGE knight boss... but managed to get by the giant fire breathing dragon monster last night.... 8-)

Plus, any protagonist named VINCENT GILGAMESH is pretty dope, LOL

DP gives this game an R4. Well worth the $5 or so.

[Xexyz]

I just thought of two more examples for the run 'n gun genre while playing some of my Genesis games today Ed.

Atomic Robo-Kid by Treco (Arc,Gen,PCEngine): You can fly in this game like in Forgotten Worlds, but there is no auto-scrolling. You can back track and enemies will respawn. Running is possible when you're on the ground, but you won't be doing much of that.

Joe & Mac by Data East (Arc, Genesis, NES): Forget the SNES version or its sequel, they play nothign like the arcade game and its other ports. They were altered to play like a regular platformer. Joe & Mac (Arc), the well done arcade port (Gen), and the radically different, but still heavily focused on the shooting aspect (NES) versions play like Run 'n Guns. Not a lot of platforming involved, and the levels are pretty short. It's more like a boss fest Run 'n gun ala Alien Soldier & Contra: Hard Corps.

[Ed Oscuro]

Ed, I got a question. Can Soldiers of Fortune really be classified as a true run n gun? I seem to recall it was an overhead shooter a la Smash TV?
Whoa, I'm an expert now! :D

Well, you're definitely running (or walking?) and gunning.

You're right though, it's like Smash TV.

I include it because this gameplay type is found in Super Contra/Operation C.


Here's a good obscure-ish run n gun:

TIME SLIP
A Vic Tokai game I didn't know about?! Heavens! I'll check it out ASAP.


I just thought of two more examples for the run 'n gun genre while playing some of my Genesis games today Ed.

Atomic Robo-Kid by Treco (Arc,Gen,PCEngine): You can fly in this game like in Forgotten Worlds, but there is no auto-scrolling. You can back track and enemies will respawn. Running is possible when you're on the ground, but you won't be doing much of that.
I've got the x68000 version of this! This is actually a UPL game, and like Mutant Night it pushes the boundaries: where MN is more platformer (things do get quite complicated later on, though I haven't gotten through the stage where you first get infinite jumps - and that's pretty early on, heh), ARK seems to have more in common with a shooter...or with Forgotten Worlds, sans the rotating heroes.

Joe & Mac by Data East (Arc, Genesis, NES): Forget the SNES version or its sequel, they play nothign like the arcade game and its other ports. They were altered to play like a regular platformer. Joe & Mac (Arc), the well done arcade port (Gen), and the radically different, but still heavily focused on the shooting aspect (NES) versions play like Run 'n Guns. Not a lot of platforming involved, and the levels are pretty short. It's more like a boss fest Run 'n gun ala Alien Soldier & Contra: Hard Corps.[/quote]
Hmm. I've seen the name plenty of times, but don't recall if I played it. Will check that out as well!

[Xexyz]

Just make sure you're playing the Genesis version of Joe & Mac!

[NeoZeedeater]

A Vic Tokai game I didn't know about?! Heavens! I'll check it out ASAP.\It's not developed by Vic Tokai though so don't expect it to be similar to their other games. It's by The Sales Curve. It's pretty good too.

[Steven]

A Vic Tokai game I didn't know about?! Heavens! I'll check it out ASAP.\It's not developed by Vic Tokai though so don't expect it to be similar to their other games. It's by The Sales Curve. It's pretty good too.

yup, and pretty dang hardcore hard too! No continues... 7 lives or so... so far I can't get past level 2's boss (the flying fire breathing dinosaur)

[Haoie]

I was just thinking of the Hard Corps again [it's 1 of my personal favs too]. Just seemed to remember the secret Simon Belmont Robot, complete with fish to throw. Very nice. Secret ending follows.

The GBA Contra title did a blender and combined levels from Hard Corps and Contra 3 [which I found was a bit bland].

Top down Contras just don't feel right.

[Spartacus]

Some to consider...

Heavy Barrel
http://i1.tinypic.com/nwfntu.jpg

Doom Troopers
http://i1.tinypic.com/nwfo6c.png



To me these play like run-n-guns, but they use fantasy characters.

Elemental Master
http://i1.tinypic.com/nwfojm.jpg

King's Knight
http://i1.tinypic.com/nwform.jpg

Twinkle Tale
http://i1.tinypic.com/nwfoys.png

Undead Line
http://i1.tinypic.com/nwfp8g.png



Other possible considerations....

Cannon Spike
http://i1.tinypic.com/nwfqlh.jpg

Expendable
http://i1.tinypic.com/nwfqso.jpg

Loaded and ReLoaded
http://i1.tinypic.com/nwfr05.jpg


Run-N-Guns are a favorite genre of mine and I look forward to seeing your finished project.

[Steven]

Spartacus, great call on Heavy Barrel. I loved that game. I also have Doom Troopers on my want list. That looks good. Have you played Time Slip? If so, please compare TS with DT... they both kind of "match" each other. I really enjoy TS.

I own these games, but have yet to play them, yet I hear they are good (Demolition Man) to surprisingly very good (True Lies).

http://image.allmusic.com/00/agg/screen250/drs300/s306/s306001auji.jpg
Operation Logic Bomb

http://image.allmusic.com/00/agg/screen250/drs200/s204/s20411iqxsi.jpg
True Lies

http://image.allmusic.com/00/agg/screen250/drs200/s289/s28963cdo61.jpg
Demolition Man (note: half the game is regular side scrolling levels)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/agg/screen250/drs200/s289/s28964c6x0a.jpg
DM

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm glad somebody liked Heavy Barrel...I thought it was ugly and a bit too difficult - but that's what I get for trying to play a rotary joystick in MAME on a keyboard :D It's the predecessor to Midnight Resistance, which is nifty.

Undead Line is one of the hardest games I've ever come across. I liked it enough to get the MSX-2 and x68000 versions, just need the MD copy now.

Also, there's a cheap (well, it is right now - no bids) Rolling Thunder PCB on eBay. Check it out, classic game. I like the sequel more - at first I thought RT2 had messed up the graphical style, but now I see that it's a far superior game (hitting an enemy won't take away half your damage; you'll just bounce off each other ala Shadow Dancer).

[Iron Draggon]

What system is Twinkle Tale for? It looks pretty interesting.

Personally, I've always thought of Elemental Master and Undead Line as shmups, but I guess they could qualify.

However, by that logic, any version of Gauntlet should qualify as well. It's in the same league with Gain Ground and Soldiers of Fortune, so it's kinda hard to draw a line.

Nods to Rolling Thunder 2 & 3. I've never played the original, but the sequels are awesome. So what about Elevator Action and Elevator Action Returns? Yes or no?

[Ed Oscuro]

What system is Twinkle Tale for? It looks pretty interesting.
I think that one's Mega Drive. Believe I played it back in December, if only for just a few minutes.


Personally, I've always thought of Elemental Master and Undead Line as shmups, but I guess they could qualify.
Well, I'm not really making a judgement whether these games are shmups or not - they're just similar enough to count, I would say.


However, by that logic, any version of Gauntlet should qualify as well. It's in the same league with Gain Ground and Soldiers of Fortune, so it's kinda hard to draw a line.
Good point. It's really my ambition to make a good resource (in addition to the others that exist) for these type of games, so it's not a problem. However, I don't think Gauntlet qualifies because the emphasis isn't on shooting alone, but on hack'n'slash action - depending on character. I suppose it could be fit in!


Nods to Rolling Thunder 2 & 3. I've never played the original, but the sequels are awesome. So what about Elevator Action and Elevator Action Returns? Yes or no?
Oh yes. I appreciate how Namco took an idea but made the gameplay feel unique, so it's not quite a ripoff (despite using the door concept). Taito, for their part, kept the building/bomb defusal/stuff gathering in EA Returns. All good.

Capcom's Code Name: Viper, on the other hand...that game seemed to be a pretty straightforward Rolling Thunder clone (I've played all through Ningen Heiki: Dead Fox, which is the Japanese nam). Good game, all the same.

[Spartacus]

Spartacus, great call on Heavy Barrel. I loved that game. I also have Doom Troopers on my want list. That looks good. Have you played Time Slip? If so, please compare TS with DT... they both kind of "match" each other. I really enjoy TS.

I own these games, but have yet to play them, yet I hear they are good (Demolition Man) to surprisingly very good (True Lies).

http://www.digitpress.com/dpsightz/super_nes/timeslip.png


I'm afraid I can't compare the two because I never knew about Time Slip until I saw your post. I caught a reasonably priced copy on Half.com and should get it in a week or two and I can check it out. Game does look interesting though and definitely obscure.
I picked up Demolition Man and True Lies after reading some very favorable things about them also. I also haven't gotten around to playing them either! I sacrifice quite a bit of my playing time just trying to learn about games and I'm OK with that. Both pastimes are fun for me.



What system is Twinkle Tale for? It looks pretty interesting.

Personally, I've always thought of Elemental Master and Undead Line as shmups, but I guess they could qualify.

Twinkle Tale is a JPN Mega Drive exclusive. Your character is a Sorceress wandering about fighting ogres and other sinister type characters with a shot and magic attack. Fun game! Colorful, well drawn and animated and not overly difficult to find.
I know some shmup sites have claimed Elemental Master and Undead Line as part of their genre. I've seen shmup sites that have listed Gunsmoke and Contra as shmups too. [SHRUG]
I don't know. They seemed to fit Ed's description of the types of games he was looking for. They aren't spaceships anyway! LOL
If I remember correctly, King's Knight, Elemental Master and Undead Line are all forced scrolling games and perhaps that's why they are claimed as shmups. I didn't even think of this before, but is the definition of the Run-N-Gun genre that there can be no forced scrolling? In Contra III, when you were flipping from missile to missile with one hand, wasn't that part scrolling? Seems I recall if you were too slow, that the end of the screen would knock you off.




Out Zone is amazing as well, and here's a great link for it: click (http://cdecas.free.fr/arcade/worship/outzone/faq.php#04). Great site, even if he does call Out Zone the "Sci-Fi version of the popular "Ikari Warriors" from SNK."I've found a Japanese FixEight fansite, as well, but don't have the URL handy.


That was a great link to OutZone, Ed. I appreciated it even though I haven't got into arcade cabs yet. But I do peek from time to time at what's available on Mame. Mostly cause the stuff looks so darn gone good! You seem to know your way around coin ops, so I doubt I'll know of any Run-N-Gun style games that you aren't already aware of, but I can list a few I remember seeing...

Dogs of War
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0o50.jpg


Gunhara
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0pie.jpg


Shock Troopers
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0pp1.jpg



I also thought of a few more console games that I thought mostly involved running and gunning....

Blowout - this is side scrolling and reminds me of Contra.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0qza.jpg


Raze's Hell - I definately want to pick this one up!
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0r6g.jpg


Space Raiders - blasting bugs mostly.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0rd1.jpg


Time Soldiers - on the SMS, but I think there's also a coin-op.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0sqa.gif


Ratchet & Clank - great series of games emphasizing shooting stuff.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0ugo.jpg


Metal Arms - A robot running around shooting lots more robots!
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0vtt.jpg


Alien 3 - shooting aliens in the Genesis version.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0w0k.gif


Rambo 3 - Seems appropriate!
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0wbd.gif


Skeleton Krew - Isometric, but alot of shooting.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0xnq.jpg


Gungrave series - Not sure about this one. Anime style gunning?
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0z1e.jpg


The Suffering series - Not sure about this one either. But you'll definately run (YIKES) and you do have a gun!
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0z6t.jpg

[Ed Oscuro]

Spartacus, great call on Heavy Barrel. I loved that game. I also have Doom Troopers on my want list. That looks good. Have you played Time Slip? If so, please compare TS with DT... they both kind of "match" each other. I really enjoy TS.

Maybe I should have you guys write up Time Slip - I played around with it a bit, wasn't too impressed! LOL

True Lies seems alright (whoever played the demo is amazing), but Demolition Man was far too dark, graphically. I gotta see what's going on. Lights off...lights ON!


I don't know. They seemed to fit Ed's description of the types of games he was looking for. They aren't spaceships anyway! LOL
If I remember correctly, King's Knight, Elemental Master and Undead Line are all forced scrolling games and perhaps that's why they are claimed as shmups. I didn't even think of this before, but is the definition of the Run-N-Gun genre that there can be no forced scrolling?
Whoever defined the genre's gonna get a rude shock! Yes, the forced scrolling in those games allows them to be classified as shmups. Silly words! However, they're close enough that you can include them, I think.


In Contra III, when you were flipping from missile to missile with one hand, wasn't that part scrolling? Seems I recall if you were too slow, that the end of the screen would knock you off.
There are a number of places in Contra games where there's a forced scrolling screen, one of the more notable ones being that orblike boss in Hard Corps which sends rotating beams of DEATH to sweep the area like a clock's second hand. I actually don't recall if new enemies appear during this forced scrolling; perhaps near the end. It definitely feels different from OutZone and undead Line, though.



Dogs of War
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0o50.jpg
Isn't that an Amiga game? I read about it a few years ago, never found a copy or tried to emulate it...



Gunhara
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0pie.jpg
Gundhara with a D, according to MAME. Don't remember playing it!

Shock Troopers - Don't forget the sequel, Second Squad!


I also thought of a few more console games that I thought mostly involved running and gunning....

Blowout - this is side scrolling and reminds me of Contra.
UGH



Raze's Hell - I definitely want to pick this one up!
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0r6g.jpg
Haha, wow. So a happy world with lolipops is that dark-suited character's personal hell? :D


Space Raiders - blasting bugs mostly.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0rd1.jpg
What have I done? Yeah, it's close to OutZone, I guess, but it's really just behind-the-back Space Invaders. It's actually a sequel.



Time Soldiers - on the SMS, but I think there's also a coin-op.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0sqa.gif
I like SNK's own Ninja Commando better (at least graphically) - but this isn't a bad game. Came out two years before the Neo Geo ('87).



Ratchet & Clank - great series of games emphasizing shooting stuff.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0ugo.jpg
I'll, uh, focus on the classic stuff more, for now. With 3D games I would check out what Kurt's already got up, and add in games like Apocalypse (PSX) that really focus on the shooting. I've never played a Ratchet game, though, so I can't comment on that specifically. Same for Metal Arms.


Alien 3 - shooting aliens in the Genesis version.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0w0k.gif
Game got ported everywhere, even the SMS and Game Boy as I recall. I wasn't astonished by the SNES version.


The Suffering series - Not sure about this one either. But you'll definitely run (YIKES) and you do have a gun!
http://i1.tinypic.com/nz0z6t.jpg
From what I understand this game puts a lot of emphasis on brawling, as well. We'll see.

For now, I've got some icons to make, that'll keep me busy for a while. :P

[Damaramu]

How about Last Alert aka Red Alert for the TG16/PC Engine?

I remember the incredibly bad voice acting in that game, but it only added to the fun.

"Guy Kazama, I'm gonna dee-stroy yoou."

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v163/Damaramu/5d00deb0.gif

[Ed Oscuro]

Egad, the voice acting was on Audio Atrocities. When it's that bad, it starts ceasing to be funny and starts getting creepy, I think. :P

[retroman]

What happend to Gunstar Heros for the Genny and Gunstar Super Heros for the GBA

[Ed Oscuro]

What, did I do something to them? LOL

[anagrama]

Woo! Good to see some Chelnov/Atomic Runner love! :) I'm quite a fan of that one, but it was roundly dumped on at another forum where I mentioned it. Agreed about the default controls being awful though - IIRC, it seems to work best with the last setting in the options screen.

[Steven]

I recently played a few more Contra wannabe's on SNES:

Realm

an R7 IIRC, one of them Titus games (most of their SNES games got 7's). I was curious about this one ever since I saw it in EGM's "16-Bit's Last Stand" article in late 1996.

Boy was I ever let down. The game is hard -- not that I mind TOO much but it's hard because it's so CHEAP. And I'm sorry but that just ruins a game for me. Enemies fly at you at JUST BELOW where your gun can fire. CHEAP! So you have to jump and shoot diagonally -- meanwhile his other friends swoop in and take energy off. CHEAP!

Graphics are nice. 1st stage the sun's rays come in and out of the forest... very cool.

But too damn hard I say. I used the God Mode code just to see the game through, and MY WORD IT IS CHEAP AND TOUGH. On Invincible I was hit like 50 times in a stage -- (and you can only sustain 10 hits maximum in a regular non God Mode game) That is crazy.

Overall, a nice looking game spoiled by cheapness. Not worth getting.

DOOM TROOPERS

Unlike Realm, I dislike DT's graphic style. It's gritty-ish and lacks animation. Bloody violent game though. Overall it plays OK and is average to above average. It's worth getting for $5

ROBOCOP VS. THE TERMINATOR

Surprisingly good! You control RoboCop in a cool run n gun-ish game. Lots of platforming action too.

GUNFORCE

Maybe I'm the only one but damnit I like this game. There I said it. I think it's kinda fun, it's a guilty pleasure game you can pop in and kick back and enjoy for 20 minutes without either pulling out your hair and racking your brain. The challenge is easy but I don't mind... it's a fun little 20 minute run n gun romp. An early SNES release, with late NES type graphics, LOL... for $50 I'd be pissed but for $5 it really grew on me.

SUNSET RIDERS

Nuff said. What a great game! Konami strikes gold yet again. Nothing beats evading a slew of bullets like a well-timed slide! :D