PIRACY IS A CRIME 'advertisement'

[Oobgarm]

I got the new issue of EGM yesterday, and I was kinda surprised to stumble across an 'ad' about piracy. The plain/bland look of it caught my eye, as it is mostly comprised of text. It's on page 97 if you care to look it up. My scanner isn't working at the moment, so perhaps someone else could oblige with a scan.

Apparently, a guy was convicted of copyright infringement by selling the 'Power Player' famiclone, and he paid for the ad to warn others in order to fulfill his restitution. You might remember those famiclones from shopping malls back in 2004-they're the ones that look like they have an N64 controller and light gun. You might have bought one, but more often than not, they were extremely overpriced, the game selection was fairly poor, and the picture left much to be desired.

His penalties for his crime, according to the ad:

-Conviction of Copyright Infringement
-60 months in prison
-Hundreds of thousands of dollars of property siezed and/or forfeited
-Deported to his home country after his prison sentence

I guess the motto could be 'Don't Mess With Nintendo' or something to that effect.

[jajaja]

So he was selling famiclones and got that punishment? Sick! Glad I dont live in the US.

[Arqueologia_Digital]

So he was selling famiclones and got that punishment? Sick! Glad I dont live in the US.
:eek 2: me too!!! here the punishments are more soft than this ones!!!

Matías

[chrisbid]

selling pirated software for profit in shopping malls is a tad different than copying games for personal use

i dont see anyone throwing sony in prison for last years rootkit fiasco

[googlefest1]

HOly crap!!!

how is he infringinge copyright

isint the compnay that makes the power players the guilty party -- this guy is just selling a import chinese product

damn thats scary -- i dont sell those things but damn what else will come of this -- people gettign thrown in jail for running emulators on thier PSP

[Oobgarm]

how is he infringinge copyright

isint the compnay that makes the power players the guilty party -- this guy is just selling a import chinese product

Sure, they're guilty, be he acted as a vehicle to get these things sold over here, something that Chinese company would never be able to do considering the legality of the product.

It's easier to get an individual for it.

[jajaja]

But the Famicom/NES isnt longer supported by Nintendo and he still get this BIG punishment. Its plain insane. If it was xbox or ps2 pirated games he was selling I would understand, but old stuff that went off the market years ago..

[Nature Boy]

But the Famicom/NES isnt longer supported by Nintendo and he still get this BIG punishment. Its plain insane. If it was xbox or ps2 pirated games he was selling I would understand, but old stuff that went off the market years ago..

...that they're bringing back with the downloading capabilities of the Revolution, to say nothing of all of the retro compilations that have been released over the last 10 years and are taking on a life of their own.

I thought the Generation NEX console was on the up and up because the NES copyright had expired or something like that. Anybody know what I'm talking about? So why would a Famiclone by another name get busted?

[Captain Wrong]

I think some people may be missing the point. It's not that he was selling a Famiclone. He was selling the Famiclones that come with a ton of pirated games. It's the software, not the hardware, that got him in trouble. If he was selling those Power Joy things, those are loaded to the gills with Mario, Contra, Galaga and the like, all of which are still copywrited property. That's what got him busted.

As for busting him vs. trying to go after a company, chances are those things are legal in China and as long as it's not the company bringing them over, I doubt there's much the US government could do. And good fucking luck trying to sue a Chinese pirate operation anyway.

:)

[Mason P.]

I don't think it was the system that got him in trouble. It was the roms on it.

[googlefest1]

they are brining back some games -- they should release a list of titles then

[Flack]

The malls here are still full of Power Joy III's. I guess they don't read EGM.

[Pantechnicon]

The malls here are still full of Power Joy III's. I guess they don't read EGM.

Same here. There's a guy at a kiosk in Coronado Mall full stock of Power Joys as well as this other nifty famiclone that is shaped like a penguin :hmm: and uses wireless controllers. Almost bought one of those but I wasn't sure how well it would have handled a 72-pin adapter.

[exit]

I remember seeing those very briefly last year at the mall, along with a weird 8-bit DDR type clone. I was semi-interested in buying one, but by they dissapeard as fast as they came.

[sisko]

But the Famicom/NES isnt longer supported by Nintendo and he still get this BIG punishment. Its plain insane. If it was xbox or ps2 pirated games he was selling I would understand, but old stuff that went off the market years ago..

...that they're bringing back with the downloading capabilities of the Revolution, to say nothing of all of the retro compilations that have been released over the last 10 years and are taking on a life of their own.

I thought the Generation NEX console was on the up and up because the NES copyright had expired or something like that. Anybody know what I'm talking about? So why would a Famiclone by another name get busted?

A) The Power Joy clones come bundled with ROMs, the NEX does not.

B) The Power Joy uses the patented N64 molds for their controllers, the NEX does not.

[Bratwurst]

I wonder how much that ad cost. At least a couple grand for the market penetration EGM enjoys, especially if it's a full page.

[chaoticjelly]

But the Famicom/NES isnt longer supported by Nintendo and he still get this BIG punishment. Its plain insane. If it was xbox or ps2 pirated games he was selling I would understand, but old stuff that went off the market years ago..

...that they're bringing back with the downloading capabilities of the Revolution, to say nothing of all of the retro compilations that have been released over the last 10 years and are taking on a life of their own.

I thought the Generation NEX console was on the up and up because the NES copyright had expired or something like that. Anybody know what I'm talking about? So why would a Famiclone by another name get busted?

A) The Power Joy clones come bundled with ROMs, the NEX does not.

B) The Power Joy uses the patented N64 molds for their controllers, the NEX does not.

I was told that they redesigned the NES and because it is their design, they are not infringing any of Nintendos copyrights (I asked them if it was totally legal) (Generation NEX)

[DreamTR]

I know this was arleady said, but...
The Generation NEX is perfectly legal (which a point was already made in this thread) because it does NOT contain any ROMS, and none of the patents from Nintendo are being used...."IF" the NEX was 100% compatible, it WOULD be breaking the law apparently, because the patents on some of the other inners of the NES have NOT expired yet.

[s1lence]

That guy was living in Minnesota. I think I remember his little kiosk in one of the malls. It had a couple of the systems hooked up. I actually asked my wife how they were getting away with selling systems with roms on them, I guess now I know.

[Red Hedgehog]

"IF" the NEX was 100% compatible, it WOULD be breaking the law apparently, because the patents on some of the other inners of the NES have NOT expired yet.

I've heard this mentioned before, but no one has given any specifics on it and it just doesn't make any sense to me. The original NES was released in 1985 and is 100% compatible with every NES game. In 1985, the term for a US patent was 17 years from date of issue. Even given three years from date of filing to patent issue, all patents on the original NES should be expired. Newer ones (such as on lockout technology, on the top-loader) could still be in effect.

So, what patents are still in effect that prevent one from creating a 100% compatible NES? Anyone have any information on when these were filed/issued?

[LocalH]

The toploader doesn't have lockout. Only the original toaster NES.

Also, the NEX is just a cheap NOAC with a sleek case design.

[DeputyMoniker]

Good. I'm not trying to live in Hong Kong where anybody can just go set up shop & sell their stolen shit at the mall. Nintendo deserves just as much protection as I would if he had been stealing from me. The laws are very clear. Whether the punishment seems harsh or not, the laws were in black & white BEFORE he chose to set up shop.

[DeputyMoniker]

The original NES was released in 1985 and is 100% compatible with every NES game. In 1985, the term for a US patent was 17 years from date of issue.

I just took this off Nintendos site.
Haven't the Copyrights for Old Games Expired?

U.S. copyright laws state that copyrights owned by corporations are valid for 75 years from the date of first publication. Because video games have been around for less than three decades, the copyrights of all video games will not expire for many decades to come.

I think thats overly simplified and probably partially incorrect but maybe somebody more knowledgable can take it from here...

[chrisbid]

The original NES was released in 1985 and is 100% compatible with every NES game. In 1985, the term for a US patent was 17 years from date of issue.

I just took this off Nintendos site.
Haven't the Copyrights for Old Games Expired?

U.S. copyright laws state that copyrights owned by corporations are valid for 75 years from the date of first publication. Because video games have been around for less than three decades, the copyrights of all video games will not expire for many decades to come.

I think thats overly simplified and probably partially incorrect but maybe somebody more knowledgable can take it from here...


copyrights are for intellectual properties (books, music, software) and only cover games. this person was busted for selling illegal copies of games in a shopping mall.

patents cover hardware, and are much shorter in legnth than copyrights (though it didnt use to be this way, thank good ol coporate greed on that one). You can make all the NES systems you want, but you would have to either play original games (like many of the theme licensed Jaks TV games use), or get the rights to use specific games.

if you made a famiclone, and wanted to include games that were legal, you need to make your own (which is what Jaks has done with a lot of the TV games units), or get the rights to reproduce the games.

but, in the end Nintendo can really only complain about the games they own the rights to. if you wanted to be dodgy, you could make a famiclone with nothing but third party software, from companies that no longer exist or go to great legnths to protect their IPs. though i would imagine a package like that wouldnt be very attractive.

[Tan]

That guy was living in Minnesota. I think I remember his little kiosk in one of the malls. It had a couple of the systems hooked up. I actually asked my wife how they were getting away with selling systems with roms on them, I guess now I know.

and yet i still see them in places like Giant Tiger, there must be more to this story than what's being said, somehow he must have taken this a step further than all the other companies putting out clones with roms on them.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yes, I see people didn't read the Gamasutra article.

The NeX might not have gotten in trouble from Nintendo, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's 100% legal. Read the article here (http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20051111/boyd_01.shtml).

Some of the patents covering the NES came out in 1995, so we're still not in the clear. At least one of the patents won't expire until 2013

Secondly, if the clone console interfaces in any way with copyrighted Nintendo code, an executive might be personally liable for any copyright violations. I don't see how the NeX might suffer this pitfall, but that doesn't stop me from being worried about it.

[Satac]

The original NES was released in 1985 and is 100% compatible with every NES game. In 1985, the term for a US patent was 17 years from date of issue.

I just took this off Nintendos site.
Haven't the Copyrights for Old Games Expired?

U.S. copyright laws state that copyrights owned by corporations are valid for 75 years from the date of first publication. Because video games have been around for less than three decades, the copyrights of all video games will not expire for many decades to come.

I think thats overly simplified and probably partially incorrect but maybe somebody more knowledgable can take it from here...

Check this link (http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20051111/boyd_01.shtml)

Can someone scan the ad? I'd like to see it :)

[Griking]

isint the compnay that makes the power players the guilty party -- this guy is just selling a import chinese product


By that logic it would be legal to deal drugs as long as you weren't the manufacturer.

[Ed Oscuro]

Check this link (http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20051111/boyd_01.shtml)
Post right above yours! LOL

[Mattiekrome]

I remember seeing this back around October/November of last year. I was doing some Christmas shopping at the time, and didnt really have time to stop and check out the kiosk in the mall. I had every intention of going back there and picking up one to leave at my in-laws house to play when I'm over there.... Never did make it back to that mall since then (I hate the damn mall)... Would still like to see the scan of the ad if anyone has one... I would just buy the mag, but my local BAM only has back issues x_x

[Niku-Sama]

ok i have to admit i have bought these pirates knowing what they are how ever usually the first thing i do is disable the crappy roms. then try to fabricate them into a portable of some sort only i have come up short a screen and the other "sucessful" tests dont last too long (shotty chinese manufacturing)

i am hoping to make a working portable NES basicly to use in the field to check NES carts for functionability at flea markets and shops and what not.

i guess after disabling or removing the roms it becoms legal because the system is not 100% compatable. i know most of those chinese NOACs have a problem with a kirby game

[Satac]

I am hoping to make a working portable NES basicly to use in the field to check NES carts for functionability at flea markets and shops and what not.

i guess after disabling or removing the roms it becoms legal because the system is not 100% compatable. i know most of those chinese NOACs have a problem with a kirby game

So why don't you just buy a portable famicom? The Pokefami is not the best for games, but it'll be usable to check those NES carts. And it's cheaper than ripping apart tons of famiclones ;)

http://www.portabledev.info/images/Pokefami4.jpg

[Red Hedgehog]

The NeX might not have gotten in trouble from Nintendo, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's 100% legal. Read the article here (http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20051111/boyd_01.shtml).

Some of the patents covering the NES came out in 1995, so we're still not in the clear. At least one of the patents won't expire until 2013

Thanks for that, Ed. That gave me the chance to look up these patents that are supposedly still in effect for the NES.

My initial reaction is that the gamasutra article was exceedingly poorly researched. It seems they pretty much just did a patent search with Nintendo as one of the search terms and didn't bother to read the patents themselves. Let's take the patents the article describes:

Patent #4,687,200: This is a patent for the D-Pad. It expired on August 18, 2004.

Patent #4,799,635: This is a patent for the lockout technology in the NES. It expired on January 24, 2006

Patent #s 5,070,479 and 5,426,762: These are divisional patents on the lockout technology (patent #4,799,635), meaning that these are additional inventions taken from patent #4,799,635. Because they are based on patent #4,799,635, they expired when it did, which was January 24, 2006.

Patent #5,207,426: This is clearly meant for the Super Nintendo control pad as it specifies buttons on the front of the pad to be manipulated with the right and left index fingers.

All of the design patents listed (D376,826; D376,795; D377,488; D379,832; D381,628; D382,868) are for the Nintendo 64.

Given the article is dated November 10, 2005, it was correct in that the second patent listed had not expired at that time. And, even once the patent is expired, the lockout technology requires running a piece of program code and since that code falls under copyright, there is a long time before a NES clone with lockout technology could be produced. However, if they were more knowledgable, they could have acknowledged that was for the lockout technology and mentioned that consoles without that technology would be legal (after all, Nintendo itself produced consoles without the NES lockout technology).

Based on the poor quality of the article, I did some research myself. I found the following design patents for the NES:

#D299,726: NES Console
#D294,020: NES Cartridge
#D294,020: Robotic Operating Buddy

The latest of these is the NES Console patent which expired February 7, 2003.

I did find two NES-related patents that may still be in effect. One (#4,813,682) looks to be the patent on the zapper technology. It was issued on March 21, 1989 which would normally mean that it would expire March 21 of this year. However it is a continuation patent of one filed on August 9, 1985. Patents issued on claims prior to June 8, 1995 have a term of the longer of 20 years from date of filing (8/9/85 in this case) or 17 years from date of issue (3/21/89), so it would seem it is still in effect. However, since this is a continuation patent, the rules may be different, and it is possible it is expired. But, it seems that a famiclone would not be able to include a compatible zapper equivalent.

The other one (#4,824,106) is on some video memory technology. Like the above patent, this is also a continuation patent and so I think it lasts until April 25, 2006, but it is possible is may have expired. I also have no idea whether this technology is used in the NES.

Also of interest, Nintendo appears to have a patent (# 4,844,465) on adapters for cartridges of two different video game machines. I'd need a lawyer to check the specifics, but it may be illegal to, say, include a Famicom to NES adapter (or vice versa) with your console (but making a console with two different cartridge slots should be perfectly legal).

Finally, note that the above three mentioned patents will all expire some time this year (by the end of July) and after that I don't think there are any patents applicable to a NES-only clone that would apply.


Secondly, if the clone console interfaces in any way with copyrighted Nintendo code, an executive might be personally liable for any copyright violations. I don't see how the NeX might suffer this pitfall, but that doesn't stop me from being worried about it.

This is very true, but I think the only copyrighted code in the NES was that involved with the lockout chip. So, as long as clones don't try to lock out unlicensed cartridges the same way Nintendo did, they should be okay. I don't know the ins and outs of the NES, so I may be wrong - perhaps there is some BIOS code (but then the clonemaker would just have to write its own BIOS code using a clean room design).

I would assume that Messiah consulted with a lawyer about the legality of the NEX and that it doesn't infringe on any patents or copyrights. It is possible that the reason it isn't 100% compatible with NES games is because of the video memory patent I listed above that is still in effect.

Anyway, based on all the research I did today, I feel confidant in saying that by May of this year, it will be able to create a near-perfect clone of the original NES, the only difference from the original being that it doesn't have any lockout technology.

[Niku-Sama]

So why don't you just buy a portable famicom? The Pokefami is not the best for games, but it'll be usable to check those NES carts. And it's cheaper than ripping apart tons of famiclones ;)

[img]http://www.portabledev.info/images/Pokefami4.jpg[img]

cause i like to tinker with stuff, and i dont want to use a converter because it gets all kinda funky with a huge US cart stickin out...basicly its still in the works