The Ghosts 'N Goblins series tribute thread

[NeoZeedeater]

With the upcoming PSP game in the series I figured it would be a good time to look back on the games of this great Capcom franchise.

Ghosts 'N Goblins(Makaimura)
Back in 1985 Capcom released an arcade game quite unlike anything made before. Sure, there were side-scrolling platformers before it and the damsel in distress theme had been in video games since the late 1970s but GnG had a style and feel all its own.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghostgobsarcade.jpg

I believe the 1986 NES version was ported by Pony Canyon for Capcom.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghostsgobsnes.gif

Elite released the Commodore 64, Spectrum and Amstrad CPC ports in 1986 and the Amiga and Atari ST ports in 1990. Mark Cooksey's soundtrack is different than the arcade game.

Commodore 64
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghostsgobsc64.png

Spectrum
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghostsgobsspeccy.png

CPC
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghostsgobscpc.png

ST
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghostsgobsst.gif

Amiga
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghostsgobsamiga.png

The 1987 DOS PC port wasn't an Elite release but a Capcom published version made by Pacific Dataworks.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghostsgobsdos.gif

Digital Eclipse did the Game Boy Color port for Capcom in 1999.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghostsgobsgbc.gif

Some downloadable Windows 9x version I don't know much about -
http://arcade.mlb.com/game_screenshot/aff=t_02lm/vid=a2e0c1e43f8806cf62e7abbb99893fb2/scrshot=2

Retro FX was making a PC remake but the project was killed in 2000 for legal reasons.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/retrofxgng.jpg

In 2004 the NES version was re-released on Game Boy Advance.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/gngfamicomminigba.jpg


Ghouls 'N Ghosts - Arcade, 1988
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghoulsghostsarcade.gif

U.S. Gold got the Western computer game rights and they released various versions developed by Software Creations in 1989/1990. Unlike the mostly quality Elite ports of the previous game I found these weren't as good and were often too Euro-fied(I love Euro games but I don't want ports of Japanese games looking like that).

Commodore 64
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghoulsc64.png

Amiga
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghoulsamiga.gif

ST
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghoulsst.png

Spectrum
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghoulsspec.gif

CPC
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghoulscpc.png


Capcom licensed the game to Sega and they made a couple console ports:

Genesis, 1989
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghoulsgenesis.gif

Master System, 1990
The SMS port strayed a bit from the arcade with its hidden item rooms and magic selection screen.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghoulssms.gif

NEC Avenue also did a SuperGrafx version in 1990. I think most would agree it was the best game on that system.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghoulssgx.gif

The 1994 x68000 version managed to get closer to the arcade experience than the Genesis and SuperGrafx ones. Neogeoman's site has a good comparison of them - http://nfg.2y.net/games/GnG/

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghoulsx68k.gif

Mobile phones, 2005
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/ghoulscell.jpg


Super Ghouls 'N Ghosts
I don't know if I like the 1991 SNES sequel more than the previous game but aside from some slowdown issues it was damn good and I loved the added double jump.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/supergngsnes.jpg

It was ported to Game Boy Advance in 2002. A save feature was added as well as alternate mode with levels from the arcade game.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/supergnggba.jpg


The three games mentioned so far also appeared on compilations such as:

Capcom Generation 2 - Playstation/Saturn, 1998
This was also released in Europe as Capcom Generations: Chronicles of Arthur.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/capcomgeneration2ssbox.jpg

Capcom Classics Collection - Playstation 2/Xbox, 2005
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/capcomclassicsps2box.jpg


Makaimura for WonderSwan was an exclusive game in the series for the Bandai WonderSwan portable in 1999. Personally, I have only played it through emulation so I don't know if the slowdown is because of the emulator or not. Other games I played on emulator seemed to run as good as the real thing though so I suspect it's the game. Besides some speed issues I found it played quite well.


~Side-series'~

The character Firebrand got his own Game Boy game in 1990 titled Gargoyle's Quest. It was a mix of side-scrolling action and overhead adventure.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/gargoylesquest.jpg

Gargoyle's Quest II: The Demon Darkness - NES, 1993
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/gquest2nes.jpg

Demon's Crest - SNES, 1994
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/demonscrest.gif


Maximo: Ghosts to Glory was a 3d spin off for the Playstation 2 developed by Capcom's US development team Capcom Digitial Studios(later renamed Capcom Production Studio 8) in 2002.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/maximops2.jpg

Maximo vs. Army of Zin - Playstation 2, 2004
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/maximo-army-zin.jpg


Arthur to Astaroth no Nazomakaimura: Incredible Toons
This 1996 Playstation/Saturn game was a variation of Dynamix's computer game The Incredible Machine with a Ghouls theme.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/nazomakaimura.jpg

Puzzle Ghosts 'n Goblins - Mobile phones, 2004
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/puzzlegng.gif

Game Factory was developing an online GnG game for Xbox and PC but it has most likely been cancelled.

GnG characters have also had a ton of cameos in other Capcom games. I highly recommend checking out these tribute sites for those and more in depth info on the franchise.

http://www.geocities.com/theghoulrealm/main.html
http://gngseries.retrogames.com/

I can't wait for the PSP game Ultimate Ghosts 'N Goblins.
http://www.pspworld.com/sony-psp/images/ghosts-n-goblins-550.jpg

It looks like an excellent return to the style of the older games. I wish I knew more about the people behind these games though and how many are still at Capcom. I remember reading a bunch of GnG people left to form the developer Whoopee Camp which made the Tomba! games.

Please make additions and give your thoughts on the franchise.

[Cmtz]

Wow great post. I love seeing retro games like this.

[Mattiekrome]

Wow, I had no idea there was so much GnG stuff out there... Great post *claps*

[jcalder8]

I had no idea that there were so many games that had to do with Ghosts 'N Goblins. I never got past the commadore 64 version it was always way too hard. Maybe I'll pick it up and try again.

[kainemaxwell]

Wow, so many GnG games! Only ones I've played was the orginial on the NES, Super and Demon's Crest myself. Here's a question, what did you guys think of the high difficulty of the games, even on an easier setting?

[Ed Oscuro]

Damn, great rundown of all the different versions...you even got the CPC and x68000 versions in there!

Personally, I like the Spectrum games - both of 'em - given the platform, they came out pretty good, though the sequel more than the original, heh. Tim Follin's C64 soundtrack is one of my personal favorites from the library; very good wind effect in there.

Despite being one of the best games in its library, Demon's Crest/Blazon got some really weak scores from a number US gaming mags, mostly reflecting how some game reviewers fell into their own hype. Damned good game that never got enough attention. I still need to pick that one up, along with the original for Game Boy.

[Bloodreign]

The Amiga Ghosts N Goblins does have a super flaw at the game's end, Lucifer doesn't fight you at all, instead he just stands there as you run to Guineviere, an oddity to say the least.


Otherwise it was great to see the original trilogy ported to one CD and released in the U.S. at last with Capcom Classics Collection. It's gotten tons of playtime from me, although it took an eternity to finally put the final beatdown on Ghouls N Ghosts, the other two I spent enough time on, couldn't quite finish them, and got tired and quit. But I'll persist and beat them eventually.

[Xexyz]

^ Heh, fat chance with Ghosts 'N Goblins :P

Also, thanks for that tid bit on Whoopee Camp. I had no idea that they were made up of former Capcom employees. They don't exist anymore right? The only games they made were the two Tomba! titles, and Tomba 2 came out over 5 years ago. I wonder what became of Whoopee Camp?

[Octane06]

Arthur to Astaroth no Nazomakaimura: Incredible Toons
This 1996 Playstation/Saturn game was a variation of Dynamix's computer game The Incredible Machine with a Ghouls theme.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NeoZeedeater/nazomakaimura.jpg


Just to let you know, that's actually just a graphical redesign of The Incredible Toon Machine. That game was a variation of The Incredible Machine (totally different parts for puzzles), and this seems to be just the same game judging from the fact that I remember both of those puzzles (and the fact that "Incredible Toons" is in the title).

[Dire 51]

Great thread, NeoZeedeater - and thanks for the Ghoul Realm site link. :) For those of you that don't know, The Ghoul Realm is my G'NG tribute site, although I haven't actually managed the site in almost two years. It is under new management, and it is going to be reopened at some point after the redesign is finished (hopefully sooner than later). I still keep up with what's going on with it, even though I don't do anything with it anymore.

But anyway, the reason I started the site in the first place is because I'm a G'NG fan, and I'm very much looking forward to the new game... although I'll have to break down and buy a PSP if I want to play it.

[pragmatic insanester]

augh. i wouldn't be able to bring myself to play the c64 version. although, i was mildly surprised at the whopee/gng staff thing. both game series kind of had a similar graphical look.

[roushimsx]

My favorite is the Wonderswan version, hands down. It's the easiest assuming you play on a Wonderswan Crystal or emulator, but god damn was it a lot of fun.

Don't remember the slowdown, and I can't find my WS to test the game out with...all I remember from playing it on my WS was the insane amount of blur that made the game so darn difficult (until the Wonderswan Crystal...which still had blur, but nowhere near as bad). Those vertical sections were especially fun.

[MegaDrive20XX]

you made this ol' coots day a pleasant one NeoZeedeater.

:D It's too beautiful...I'm bookmarking this thread for damn sure...

[C White]

I was obsessed with the Ghosts 'n Goblins Arcade when I was a kid. I lived in a tiny town and the convenience store would rotate in one or two different arcade cabinets every couple weeks. None of them interested me very much except G'NG. I remember spending afternoons looking for pop bottles to earn more quarters to play the darn thing. I must have been around nine at the time, and I was actually very good, I could get to the two flying satan things before the final boss. I could manage to kill one, but not the other. I didn't find out to later that you had to play the game twice to beat it.... I would have been pissed :angry:

I bought the Nes version, but it just wasn't the same game. My disapointment with the 8-bit version probably is the reason I became so obsessed with "16-bit" generation of home consoles. Of course I bought Ghouls N'Ghosts for the Genny and Super Ghouls N'Ghosts for the SNES; while I loved playing the sequels, I kept hoping for a port of the original. Finally 10+ years later, I purchased Capcom Classics Collection, and spent a profanity filled afternoon and finally beat the original.

[Mr Mort]

Awesome post NeoZeedeater, thanks a bunch for the info.

I've never played any of them before except for Maximo on the PS2, but I will definately pick up the PSP game as soon as it hits.

Also, I was always curious about the Genesis version. How do you guys feel about it?

[MegaDrive20XX]

There is actually another GnG that was cancelled as well as GnG Online for Xbox...


http://ign64.ign.com/articles/067/067005p1.html

Ghouls N Ghosts 64...


Genesis GnG? It's gorgeous, but many fans still say the Super GrafX 16 version is dead on perfect. (I agree)

Yet honestly, I'm still a fan of Capcom Generations Vol. 2 (Saturn/PSX) regardless of the missing sound effects and music in the intro...Just had the colors in the proper place.

Thinking about it however, Super Grafx 16 is the king when it comes to arcade perfection

So in order...

1. Super Grafx 16
2. Capcom Generations Vol. 2
3. Genesis/Megadrive

Sharp X68000 I'd love to get a hold of just to see the big difference. Man, that was a killer 16-bit (or would it be considered 24 or 32?) PC...damn good Final Fight...CastleVania....and even a GnG...doesn't get any better then that :)

[Ed Oscuro]

Ha, I never hear about the Final Fight on x68000...don't know if it's a title I've got coming, and frankly I forgot about it.

System's 16-bit through and through; up to its final days they never did upgrade to a CD-ROM drive (only select models even have 3.5 inch floppies, and at the cost of the 5.25" ones).

Also, I had understood that GnG N64 became Maximo.

[MegaDrive20XX]

Ah okay, well then slap it and and call it 16-bit! It's a damn fine computer :)

And as for GnG64....I'm glad it became Maximo

[Lord Contaminous]

I actually beat Super Ghouls n Ghosts both times through.
Had a terrible headache after that.

from that point on, I considered beating any GnG/Makaimura game just simply making it to the final stage, even if I don't get to the boss.

[jsiucho]

I had the Genesis version since it came out, it one of those games I paly over and over again,, its just fun!,,


JS

[soundwave]

great list I forgot about some of those games. makes me wanna dig up the C64

[Nature Boy]

It's nice to see a long post *can* be worth going through - thanks for the effort!

I didn't realized that the Gargoyle games were in the GnG universe. I'm gonna have to do some searching now! :)

[chrisbid]

how about arthur's appearances in other capcom games. like Marvel vs Capcom, Card Fighter's Clash, and Red Armourmer (sp?) as a boss in SVC Chaos.

[InsaneDavid]

how about arthur's appearances in other capcom games. like Marvel vs Capcom, Card Fighter's Clash, and Red Armourmer (sp?) as a boss in SVC Chaos.


GnG characters have also had a ton of cameos in other Capcom games. I highly recommend checking out these tribute sites for those and more in depth info on the franchise.

http://www.geocities.com/theghoulrealm/main.html
http://gngseries.retrogames.com/

[Ed Oscuro]

While we're at it, here's the Japanese cardridge for their version of Gargoyle's Quest 2 (Red Arremer II, I believe, something like that with a subtitle):

http://home.comcast.net/~edoscuro/fc_gq2j_cart.jpg

[Dire 51]

I didn't realized that the Gargoyle games were in the GnG universe. I'm gonna have to do some searching now! :)

It's nowhere more blatantly obvious then on the title screen of the U.S. version of Gargoyle's Quest. Right under the Gargoyle's Quest logo it says Ghosts 'N Goblins in smaller letters. Check it out right here (http://www.geocities.com/theghoulrealm/gnggq1.html).

Excellent games, all three in that series. There still seems to be some debate as to whether or not Demon's Crest is actually GQ3, though.

[Nature Boy]

It's nowhere more blatantly obvious then on the title screen of the U.S. version of Gargoyle's Quest. Right under the Gargoyle's Quest logo it says Ghosts 'N Goblins in smaller letters. Check it out right here (http://www.geocities.com/theghoulrealm/gnggq1.html).

That would've required me seeing the game in action prior to reading the thread though, now wouldn't it? Am I not allowed to be surprised by this or am I supposed to have looked at a screenshot of every game ever, even ones I'm not interested in?

(i.e. I thank you for pointing out the now obvious but I'm not sure why you bothered...)

[MegaDrive20XX]

Excellent games, all three in that series. There still seems to be some debate as to whether or not Demon's Crest is actually GQ3, though.

It's too obvious imho that Demon's Crest is indeed GQ3 by far. Simply because of the opening story does connect to GQ2 just a bit...yet not enough evidence to prove it.

However, I'd like to think of it as GQ3 :)

[Neo Rasa]

I'd think it would have to be with all the shared enemies and such. Even the final hidden boss, IIRC looks like the first warlord thing you fight in that cavern in Gargoyle's Quest 2 when you start getting upgrades. It's prologue involves Phalanx/etc. finding out about how there's a world of demons and a seperate world of humans and everything like the beginning of the original Garogyle's Quest. Ditto to the Legendary Gargoyle crest in Demon's Crest turning you into the original red demon that the legend prologue talks about in the original game.

That said, I guess it could be seen as a pure action game remake of the original Gargoyle's Quest. Maybe if it sold huge they were going to try to make it a new franchise?

Great series as others have said. Demon's Crest is a little too easy at points but it's beautiful and so much fun to play.

[Dire 51]

It's nowhere more blatantly obvious then on the title screen of the U.S. version of Gargoyle's Quest. Right under the Gargoyle's Quest logo it says Ghosts 'N Goblins in smaller letters. Check it out right here (http://www.geocities.com/theghoulrealm/gnggq1.html).

That would've required me seeing the game in action prior to reading the thread though, now wouldn't it? Am I not allowed to be surprised by this or am I supposed to have looked at a screenshot of every game ever, even ones I'm not interested in?

(i.e. I thank you for pointing out the now obvious but I'm not sure why you bothered...)

That was more of an FYI thing than a HEY WHY DIDN'T YOU LOOK AT SCREENSHOTS post. Just some trivia, as it were. Sorry if it came off otherwise.


It's too obvious imho that Demon's Crest is indeed GQ3 by far. Simply because of the opening story does connect to GQ2 just a bit...yet not enough evidence to prove it.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the staff that worked on it, or someone at Capcom, claimed that it was not actually GQ3, but another game entirely, just using the same characters and style of gameplay and whatnot. I'm not sure why they would say that, though. Personally I've always considered it to be GQ3.

[Lord Contaminous]

Oh yeah another piece of GnG trivia.

Pictures of King Arthur's face are swarming around in Breath of Fire 1 hanging in village houses.

[MegaDrive20XX]

Great series as others have said. Demon's Crest is a little too easy at points but it's beautiful and so much fun to play.

Easy, up until you fight the final "real" boss after obtaining all the crest..

[Abman]

Great post. I loved Ghouls and Ghosts and along with many others still think it is the hardest game out there. I also can't wait for the PSP one. I am not a big fan of the system but the game looks awesome. As I said before great post I had no idea there was so much Ghouls and Ghosts stuff out there.

[Neo Rasa]

Great series as others have said. Demon's Crest is a little too easy at points but it's beautiful and so much fun to play.

Easy, up until you fight the final "real" boss after obtaining all the crest..

That fight was great, so intense. Very hard too since the level you went through to get to it was so easy.

The final boss you could fight if you got 100% items and not just the crests ironically wasn't as bad. No real strategy to it, you basically had to equip your offense boosting stuff, have a bunch of healing items, and go toe to toe with him until he fell.

[MegaDrive20XX]

are you sure you're talking about "The Dark Demon"? The one that has two forms that alters every now and then?

[Nature Boy]

[That was more of an FYI thing than a HEY WHY DIDN'T YOU LOOK AT SCREENSHOTS post. Just some trivia, as it were. Sorry if it came off otherwise.

No need to apologize - after posting I figured out that's probably what it was anyway. I was just in a mean mood yesterday (my 22 month old was up from 3-6am, and my newborn, obviously, was as well - hence little sleep for either me or the missus).

I'll keep my thoughts to myself next time :)

[Dire 51]

[That was more of an FYI thing than a HEY WHY DIDN'T YOU LOOK AT SCREENSHOTS post. Just some trivia, as it were. Sorry if it came off otherwise.

No need to apologize - after posting I figured out that's probably what it was anyway. I was just in a mean mood yesterday (my 22 month old was up from 3-6am, and my newborn, obviously, was as well - hence little sleep for either me or the missus).

I'll keep my thoughts to myself next time :)

Hey, no problem. Having been there myself, I know what that's like. :)

More G'NG-related stuff: I've been asked to write an article on the history of the series for Hardcore Gaming 101 (http://hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/). I'll be tackling that soon... glad this thread is around for any info I might be missing.

[TheSmirk]

excellent post on an excellent series! Nice job!
Though I played it in the arcade some, on the NES is when the bug really bit me, still one of my favorites :)

[airraid]

Genesis GnG? It's gorgeous, but many fans still say the Super GrafX 16 version is dead on perfect. (I agree)

Yet honestly, I'm still a fan of Capcom Generations Vol. 2 (Saturn/PSX) regardless of the missing sound effects and music in the intro...Just had the colors in the proper place.

Thinking about it however, Super Grafx 16 is the king when it comes to arcade perfection

So in order...

1. Super Grafx 16
2. Capcom Generations Vol. 2
3. Genesis/Megadrive



complete nonsense.


okay first of all there is so such thing as the "Super Grafx 16".
The system you're talking about obviously, is called the SuperGrafx. but that's not the point.

the SuperGrafx version of Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) is pretty darn good, but it is in NO WAY
anywhere near "arcade perfect" or "pixel-perfect", meaning it is not even close to being exactly like the arcade game.

In 1990, SuperGrafx Ghouls 'n Ghosts *was* the most graphically advanced home conversion (except for a few areas which the MD-Genesis version looked better, i.e. level 3-1 where the screen scrolls up, the parallax scrolling is superior on the Sega version) but as of 1994, the SuperGrafx Ghouls 'N Ghosts lost its crown forever to the Sharp X68000, which got a near-exact port of the arcade.

The original CPS arcade Ghouls N Ghosts is 32 megabits (4 MB).
The SuperGrafx version is only 8 megabits (1 MB)
so the SuperGrafx version has only 1/4 the amount of memory as the arcade game!
how on EARTH could the SuperGrafx version be "arcade perfect" then? lmao.
the phase "arcade perfect" is so utterly rediculas and just plain wrong 99.999% of the time.

The SuperGrafx is also not nearly as powerful as Capcom's CPS arcade hardware that runs Ghouls 'N Ghosts.

CPU
CPS Arcade: 16-bit 68000 @ 10 MHz
SuperGrafx: 8-bit HuC6280 @ 7.16MHz


max sprites on screen
CPS Arcade: 256 of 16x16 size
SuperGrafx: 128 of 8x8 size

colors
CPS: 2048 (or 4096) colors on screen from a palette of 65,536 colors
SuperGrafx: 482 colors on screen out of a palette of 512 colors (or possibly 4096)

resolution
CPS Arcade: 384x224
SuperGrafx: 256×224 or 320x224

background layers
CPS Arcade: 3 backgrounds layers
SuperGrafx: 2 backgrounds layers

The CPS hardware has much more RAM and VRAM than the SuperGrafx.
SuperGrafx has 32K RAM and 128K VRAM.
I don't know exactly how much RAM the CPS, has but I promise you it is more than SuperGrafx.
CPS total RAM + VRAM is likely a couple of MegaBtyes.

The audio hardware in the SuperGrafx is extremely LAME. it's the same 6-channel audio as the PC-Engine ~ TurboGrafx-16, not even on par with the Megadrive ~ Genesis, and far inferior to the CPS's audio which has several powerful Yamaha chips.

READ the top of this arcade flyer for Ghouls 'n Ghosts
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8859/ghoulsflyer5yw.jpg

see that? CP System (CPS), the hardware that runs
Ghouls 'n Ghosts, had an advanced chipset -- there is NO WAY the 8-bit SuperGrafx could produce audio-visuals as good as the arcade game. do you understand ?

therefore, the term 'arcade perfect' regarding SuperGrafx Ghouls 'N Ghosts is complete and utter bullsh|te fanboy nonesense by people who don't have the slightest clue.


it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for the SuperGrafx to reproduce a CPS Arcade game, such as Ghouls 'n Ghosts, without drastic downgrades in graphics and audio. SuperGrafx Ghouls 'n Ghosts therefore CANNOT be and IS NOT arcade perfect.

Even if a developer went back to make a better version of Ghouls N Ghosts for SuperGrafx, even though they could do better than the 8-meg version released in 1990, by using a 16-meg or 32-meg card combined better programming to make better use of the limited hardware, it would STILL not be as good as the arcade. The hardware limitations, the difference between the 8-bit SuperGrafx and 16-bit CPS Arcade hardware , are a brick wall that cannot magically go away, or be overcome. Sure, programmers can do incredible stuff on contrained consoles like PC-Engine, Genesis (and SuperGrafx if it had been given a chance) once they learn the hardware--sometimes stuff previously not thought possible -- but no programmer can pull off an absolute miracle to make the SuperGrafx (or any other inferior hardware) perform as good as much more powerful hardware.

Does this make sense to you?


In the end, the Megadrive-Genesis translation is technically less than 1/6th of the arcade, and the SuperGrafx version is technically 1/4th of the arcade--that is one quarter of the arcade, not arcade perfect, but one-forth of the arcade.

Arcade: 32-meg
MegaDrive-Genesis: 5-meg
SuperGrafx: 8-meg


SuperGrafx cannot be arcade perfect if it's only got 8-megabits of data while the arcade had 32, now can it ?

8 does not 'perfectly' become 32. 8 is 8 and 32 is 32.

SuperGrafx doesn't seem like the 'king of arcade perfection' to me. LOL.


Now, It doesn't matter if say *I* decided to like the SuperGrafx Ghouls 'n Ghosts so much that I decided that I thought it was 'arcade perfect'. that would not magically make it as good as the arcade, or "arcade perfect". Living in LaLa land does not change the fact that SuperGrafx Ghouls n Ghosts is nowhere near identical to the arcade. am I getting through to you?


If strictly discussing how close home versions of Ghouls 'n Ghosts are compared to the arcade, one would have to rate SuperGrafx Ghouls 'n Ghosts well below the X68000 port, and below and the Saturn/PS1 ports in Capcom Generation 2. as well as the Xbox/PS2/PSP Capcom Classics Collection port which are directly based on the PS1 Capcom Generation 2 version.

I should know, I owned a SuperGrafx and its rendition of Ghouls 'n Ghosts, as well as just about every other version. I've played the real arcade cab, and I've played them all through emulation.

Don't get me wrong, I love SuperGrafx Ghouls 'N Ghosts but I realize that it is not even close to being
"arcade perfect", and that more recent home versions blow it right out of the water.

___________
Arcade ~ 1988
http://nfg.2y.net/games/GnG/GnG_arcade.png

____________
X68000 ~ 1994
http://nfg.2y.net/games/GnG/GnG_x68k.png

_______________
SuperGrafx ~ 1990
http://nfg.2y.net/games/GnG/GnG_SGX.png

_______________
SuperGrafx
http://www.pcengine.com.br/cards/ghost/gghoust8.GIF

_______________
X68000
http://www.emulatronia.com/reportajes/x68000/images/gg4.gif

_______________
SuperGrafx
http://www.pcengine.com.br/cards/ghost/gghoust5.GIF

_______________
Arcade
http://digilander.libero.it/calimerosegg/gallery/finalburn/ghouls.gif


as you can see, the SuperGrafx version is missing a significantly large amount of graphic detail and missing a HUGE amount of color depth.

While the SuperGrafx Ghouls 'N Ghosts is better than Genesis translation (only in graphics, in most but not all areas) the SuperGrafx rendition is not really even close to the Arcade, X68000,
PS1/Saturn (Capcom Generations 2) or PS2/Xbox/PSP (Capcom Classics Collection) version.

the closest home version *is* the X68000 port, and it destroys the SuperGrafx version for real.

(older Ghouls 'n Ghosts fans and avid EGM readers may remember EGM telling everyone that SuperGrafx Ghouls 'n Ghosts destroys the Genesis version...it was in the preview of Grandzort
...which EGM called The Mountain King...

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4609/sgxghoulsdestroyscrop4hi.jpg

....and that *was* pretty much true as far as the graphics (but not audio or gameplay)


but the SuperGrafx version was in turn 'destroyed' by the more recent versions, as I have shown.


here are more EGM articles that HYPED SuperGrafx Ghouls 'n Ghosts

EGM #10, May 1990
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9621/egmquarterman1000x109aw2.jpg

.

EGM #11, June 1990
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4609/sgxghoulsdestroyscrop4hi.jpg

.

EGM #13, August 1990
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1755/ghoulssgxtreecrop6gh.jpg

.

EGM #14, Sept 1990
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2174/egmsgxletter1pu5.jpg
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/7920/egmsgxletter2280x600fo5.jpg

.

EGM #14, Sept 1990
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/301/egm14sgxgng345x960py7.jpg

.

EGM #15, October 1990
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2752/supergrafxreviewzj2.jpg

this only, later, on the internet, fueled the false belief that the SuperGrafx rendition was identical to the arcade.



now some truth (listen up man)
quote from a review about the X68000 Ghouls n Ghosts vs the SuperGrafx and MegaDrive versions:

http://www.illusionware.it/x68000/gng-x68.htm



Review

The X68000 version of Ghouls'n'Ghosts is supposed to be so good as to literally eclipse the Mega Drive and the SuperGrafx versions. Everything apparently looks and feels arcade perfect from the color palette to the graphical definition of the sprites and the backgrounds.

http://www.illusionware.it/x68000/gng-x68-back.jpg

here is how *I* rate the various ports and translations of Ghouls 'n Ghosts, as far as how close they are to the arcade:

Arcade...................100% (by which all others are judged)
X68000..................99%
PS1/PS2/Xbox.........98% (all the same port)
Saturn...................97%
SuperGrafx..............65%
Megadrive-Genesis....55%
Master System........10%
Amiga/Atari ST.........5%

that's NOT how I rate them as games on their own. example, as a game, I'd give the Genesis version a 9 out of 10 and probably the same for the SuperGrafx version, but that would not be regarding how close they are to the arcade.

[airraid]

and now for something completely different

'Ghouls And Ghosts 3' for the Super Famicom, circa 1990, which did not get released until it became
Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts with somewhat different graphics.


http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6316/gng38za.jpg

credit to The Ghoul Realm (http://www.geocities.com/theghoulrealm/gng3.html) for putting up this scan from EGM #17, December 1990, page 48

[MegaDrive20XX]

no.


okay first of all there is so such thing as the "Super Grafx 16". The system you're talking about obviously, is called the SuperGrafx.



No. You knew what I was talking about, so why make a big deal out of it?

I can't vouche for the Sharp version, since I've never seen it in action. Yet I could tell it was pretty solid, the Sharp never ceases to fail.

As for the early Super GnG Sprites, that's a nice touch. I wonder what happened to those sprites later on.

[Ed Oscuro]

Well, I'm gonna break in to ask a few things:

Why only 99% on the x68000 port? The music?

Second: I looked at MAME's World ROMset for Ghouls 'n Ghosts, and came up with something like 5.06MB. Of course arcade boards don't need to be packaged on tidy numbers of equal size chips, but there's a question as to whether this is the correct number. Anybody care to comment on that?

[airraid]

Well, I'm gonna break in to ask a few things:

Why only 99% on the x68000 port? The music?

Second: I looked at MAME's World ROMset for Ghouls 'n Ghosts, and came up with something like 5.06MB. Of course arcade boards don't need to be packaged on tidy numbers of equal size chips, but there's a question as to whether this is the correct number. Anybody care to comment on that?

music in the X68000 ver is basicly exact. the reason I give it 99% (I would even say 99.9%) is the fact that in this version as well as the Capcom Gen 2 versions, Arthur's feet don't get 'behind the grass' in the first stage. you only see this in the arcade version. the grass in the arcade is a little bit larger, brighter. a very minor detail. plus, there's some loading time with the 2 floppy discs. but it's as close to being exact as you can get at home. sadly, the X68000 is very rare even in Japan. probably only a few hundred people (at most) in the U.S. have one. but from all the home versions of Ghouls 'n Ghosts, this is the closest to the arcade.

now as for the 98% given to the Saturn/PS1 Capcom Generation 2 and PS2/Xbox Capcom Classics Collection which is based on the PS1 version, there are a number of differences, although they are still arcade-quality.

1.) resolution is different, expecally in the Saturn ver.

2.) colors in the Saturn version are a little more redish

3.) commen between Saturn/PS1 is a missing soundtrack in the sound test screen-- the ending music-- and when you do hear the ending music only when you've beaten the game, it s arrangement is very different from the arcade version--in fact it sounds completely different--almost a different song.
(Genesis and X68000 get the ending music right, even though not 100% exact). The different ending music in Capcom Generation vol 2 comes across in PS2-Xbox Capcom Classic Collection version because they are based on the PS1 ver of Capcom Generation 2

4.) commen between all of these versions is a couple of missing frames of animation when Arthur acquires the magical golden armor. the animation when you grab the golden armor is about a second longer in the Arcade/X68000 versions.

5.) Arthur's feet don't get hidden behind the grass on level 1-1 and 1-2, as is the same with the X68000 ver.

6.) loading times when starting the game and between levels. (not so bad on Xbox)

7.) sound effect timing is sometimes a little bit behind the action.

8.) slight pause in music when you reach a boss, as the boss music starts

9.) no arcade operator test config screen, unlike other arcade emulations on consoles.

10.) there is some nasty slowdown in the Saturn version

11.) it is hard to see the distant parallax scrolling background in the PS1-Xbox-PS2 version. you need to turn the brightness up on your screen to see them properly. this is one of the most noticable things that seem to bother people. it bothered me too, kinda.

12.) there's probably a few other minor differences i can't think of at the moment.

but still, these versions are arcade-quality, arcade-class, arcade-caliber even though they are not
100 % absolute 'arcade exact'.



No. You knew what I was talking about, so why make a big deal out of it?

I can't vouche for the Sharp version, since I've never seen it in action. Yet I could tell it was pretty solid, the Sharp never ceases to fail.

I made a big deal about it, not because you got the name of the SuperGrafx wrong, but because you were completely wrong about its conversion of Ghouls 'n Ghosts, saying that it was "arcade perfect" and better than the PS1/Saturn Capcom Generation vol 2 versions, which is totally not true.

your opinion on the SuperGrafx version is your opinion
(re: you can like it the most)
but it doesn't make it better than the more-exact versions.
you can like the SuperGrafx GnG the most if you want to though.

I know what I am talking about when it comes to the home versions of Ghouls 'n Ghosts compared to the arcade, I've played the arcade extensively, as well as ALL the console versions and most of the computer versions.

What I've said about the Ghouls 'n Ghosts games are facts, not my opinion. you are entitled to your opinions though, and if you want to say "I like the SuperGrafx Ghouls 'n Ghosts the most" that's fine, but please don't say things that are simply not true.

[InsaneDavid]

...(two tons of crap trying to slap everyone in the face when you have a post count of 4 and played thread hijacker)...



As a wise protocol droid once said: "Don't get technical with me."

[MegaDrive20XX]

I made a big deal about it, not because you got the name of the SuperGrafx wrong, but because you were completely wrong about its conversion of Ghouls 'n Ghosts, saying that it was "arcade perfect" and better than the Capcom Generation 2 versions, which is totally not true.

I'm not flaming you though. don't take it too hard, but I know what I am talking about when it comes to Ghouls 'n Ghosts home versions compared to the arcade, I've played the arcade extensively, as well as ALL the console versions and most of the computer versions.

and what I've said about the Ghouls 'n Ghosts games is fact, not my opinion. you are entitled to your opinions though, and if you want to say "I like the SuperGrafx Ghouls 'n Ghosts the most" that's fine, but please don't say things that are not true.

Please don't take this personally, but you sound like a dickhead just now.

First off you were completely wrong is not really true, when you contradicts the fact of "You are entitled to your opinions"

Just because you've played the Arcade version just as much as I, doesn't mean you have to take it seriously.

This is just a game, if you want to be more specific about details like this. That's fine, just don't go around rubbing it in people's faces.

Did I make myself clear sir?

I made an opinion, which is why I used "imho" at the end of my sentence before I posted the top three to state which is the better version of GHOULS N GHOSTS. . Then said I could not vouche for Sharp, because I don't emulate that much or have the ability to purchase such a fine piece of computer hardware.

Don't take it too hard, but I think you need to ease up.

Just like you said, it's just an "entitled" opinion.

[airraid]

I did not give my opinions on the various
Ghouls 'n Ghosts home versions compared
to the arcade, I gave the FACTS.

example of an *opinion* of mine: I happen to 'like' the music in the Genesis version the best because of the way it sounds and the way it is arranged. however I recognize that the Genesis version is inferior in every way to the arcade, saturn, playstation, ps2 and xbox versions, including the technical quality of the audio.

you seem to like the SuperGrafx version the best -- that's fine, but don't go around saying it is the 'most arcade perfect' version because that's utterly bull.

the graphics and audio of the arcade, x68000, saturn, playstation, xbox and PS2 versions are all vastly more advanced than the Supergrafx version. that is a fact, not an opinion. it is completely indisputable, only a complete freaking idiot would argue against the fact.

if you choose to think the SuperGrafx is the superior home version, that's fine, that's your opinion.

just please don't state the SuperGrafx version is
'arcade perfect' because it is not. that sounds like you're saying that as a fact, which would be false.


does SuperGrafx http://nfg.2y.net/games/GnG/GnG_SGX3.png


look the same as Arcade?
http://www.skytopia.com/games/arcade/compare/gg_6.png



the 'arcade perfect' (not) SuperGrafx
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5889/sgxghoulsbridge4fo.jpg


vs Arcade
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6338/ghoulsbridge6wx.jpg
(look at the swamp background in the distance)



SuperGrafx
http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/3492/ghoulssgxstage117ec.jpg



Arcade
http://www.skytopia.com/games/arcade/compare/gg_3.png


still not convinced?


SuperGrafx stage 3-2
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9326/ghoulssgxstage325zx.jpg


Arcade stage 3-2
http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/images/10/1052657901.jpg
Arcade stone monsters have claws, but not on SuperGrafx.
(clouds are much better too)


trial by fire!

SuperGrafx
http://www.photodump.com/direct/edgemagazine/SGXGhoulsCamolot(610x458).jpg

Arcade
http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/2189/ghoulsarcadecamolot600x4504ih.jpg
_______________________

SuperGrafx
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5803/sgxghoulscamolot2480x3603us.jpg

Arcade
http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/686/ghoulsarcstage224iq.jpg


SuperGrafx
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9770/sgxghoulsgate9zw.jpg
not much detail....

Arcade
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/5525/ghoulsgate2600x4506jy.jpg
look at the exellent DETAIL in the wall~entrance!


_______________
Arcade
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/3549/ghoulstentbones600x4504xq.jpg
detailed wall, bones, and tent!


_______________
SuperGrafx
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1777/sgxghoulstent5dr.jpg
where'd all the great detail go?


________________
Arcade
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4788/ghoulsbones600x4500fc.jpg
nice skeleton


________________
SuperGrafx
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3204/sgxghoulsbones6di.jpg
hey! give the skeleton back!


SuperGrafx
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/2853/sgxghoulsplatform480x3600rr.jpg


Arcade
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2153/ghoulsarcadeplatform480x3605pw.jpg(the blue wall on the right looks awesome in the Arcade, but not nearly so on SuperGrafx)


(nevermind the somewhat blurry, washed out, over-bright look of the last few arcade screens, I had to do capture them using MAME and I turned up the pause-brightness so you could see the detail better)

you obviously have not played enough Ghouls 'n Ghosts or seen enough of the different versions to know what is what.

or you need to get your eyes checked if you cannot see the very significant difference in detail and color, heavily favoring the arcade

[airraid]

edit: ack double post.

[MegaDrive20XX]

you obviously have not played enough Ghouls 'n Ghosts or seen enough of the different versions to know what is what. or you need to get your eyes checked.

Whatever kid, nice talkin' to you, and welcome to DP.

[airraid]

you obviously have not played enough Ghouls 'n Ghosts or seen enough of the different versions to know what is what. or you need to get your eyes checked.

Whatever kid, nice talkin' to you, and welcome to DP.


when you back up your words with some hard facts, maybe you'll be taken more seriously.

I'm done proving my point - gamers who really know all the Ghouls 'n Ghosts versions well (unlike you) and have a basic understanding of hardware/software, probably understand what I explained.

have a nice day.

[MegaDrive20XX]

you obviously have not played enough Ghouls 'n Ghosts or seen enough of the different versions to know what is what. or you need to get your eyes checked.

Whatever kid, nice talkin' to you, and welcome to DP.


when you back up your words with some hard facts, maybe you'll be taken more seriously.

I'm done proving my point - gamers who really know all the Ghouls 'n Ghosts versions well (unlike you) and have a basic understanding of hardware/software, probably understand what I explained.

have a nice day.

Okay the facts? Here's the fact, you need to get off your soap box and get back to the point of enjoying a game.

When you stop caring about hardware/software. Maybe then you'll see why people play games and stop the bullshit.

I'm through man, would you stop already? or do you wanna play some more kid?

If you're lookin for a fight, I can't help you, yet I know some friends who can.

When you stop acting like a horse's ass and just drop it already, maybe I'll take you seriously.

Have a nice day, kid.

[airraid]

you obviously have not played enough Ghouls 'n Ghosts or seen enough of the different versions to know what is what. or you need to get your eyes checked.

Whatever kid, nice talkin' to you, and welcome to DP.


when you back up your words with some hard facts, maybe you'll be taken more seriously.

I'm done proving my point - gamers who really know all the Ghouls 'n Ghosts versions well (unlike you) and have a basic understanding of hardware/software, probably understand what I explained.

have a nice day.

Okay the facts? Here's the fact, you need to get off your soap box and get back to the point of enjoying a game.

When you stop caring about hardware/software. Maybe then you'll see why people play games and stop the bullshit.

I'm through man, would you stop already? or do you wanna play some more kid?

If you're lookin for a fight, I can't help you, yet I know some friends who can.

When you stop acting like a horse's ass and just drop it already, maybe I'll take you seriously.

Have a nice day, kid.


have you even actually played a real SuperGrafx ?

[GrayFox]

you obviously have not played enough Ghouls 'n Ghosts or seen enough of the different versions to know what is what. or you need to get your eyes checked.

Whatever kid, nice talkin' to you, and welcome to DP.


when you back up your words with some hard facts, maybe you'll be taken more seriously.

I'm done proving my point - gamers who really know all the Ghouls 'n Ghosts versions well (unlike you) and have a basic understanding of hardware/software, probably understand what I explained.

have a nice day.

Okay the facts? Here's the fact, you need to get off your soap box and get back to the point of enjoying a game.

When you stop caring about hardware/software. Maybe then you'll see why people play games and stop the bullshit.

I'm through man, would you stop already? or do you wanna play some more kid?

If you're lookin for a fight, I can't help you, yet I know some friends who can.

When you stop acting like a horse's ass and just drop it already, maybe I'll take you seriously.

Have a nice day, kid.


have you even actually played a real SuperGrafx ?

To kinda quote Kamino...


DO YOU LIKE SUPERGRAFX?!

[InsaneDavid]

have you even actually played a real SuperGrafx ?

Well I have, and up until that point it was the most arcade perfect translation that could be found. Stop flaming and move along please.

[airraid]

have you even actually played a real SuperGrafx ?

Well I have, and up until that point it was the most arcade perfect translation that could be found. Stop flaming and move along please.

ok yeah, when SuperGrafx GnG was released in 1990, it was the closest home version of the game in graphics, but not audio since Genesis was far superior in music and sound fx.

but saying "it was the most arcade perfect translation that could be found", well okay, since you said 'most', but people really should just stop using the phrase 'arcade perfect'. that phrase is so incredibly over-used. there is almost never such thing as 'arcade perfect'.

99 percent of the games that gamers and even hardcore gamers call arcade perfect, are not at all identical to their arcade counterparts.

sorry to have a huge rant about this subject. just stating the facts.


to 'Ghouls N Ghosts'

read the wise words of Black_Tiger on pcenginefx.com (http://www.pcenginefx.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=344&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15)



Neither the Megadrive nor Supergrafx games were real ports, they are more like conversions.

Most of the art/graphics of the MD version is original/redrawn(simplified), like the SMS game, but looks arcadey on it's own(certainly when it came out).

The Supergrafx game uses more of the arcade's graphics art, but uses very few colors and wasn't touched up very much(the game could've been ported to regular PCE way better).

All these people who rant and rave about the 'perfect' port of GnG to SGX or the 'perfect' port of Strider to MD never even try to compare them at all. They just turn on a single game and judge it's "conversion" by how impressed they are from playing the game on it's own.

(I agree)

[Bloodreign]

Argh keep it clean and to GnG, I don't want to see the mods close a great thread because of petty bickering.


Anyway I've played possibly every version of Ghouls N Ghosts that was made, from arcade, to SuperGraphx, to Genny,to PSX Capcom Generations 2, to PS 2's Capcom Classics Collection, to Atari ST, to Amiga, and I'd have to say the first 5 versions all have their own magic, but the Atari ST and Amiga versions of Ghouls are relatively poor (I didn't care for the Commodore 64 version of GnG, but the music is swell, the SMS version is very different but pretty good). Especially after the wonderful Amiga port of Ghosts N Goblins (even with the last fight not even happening) you'd think they could possibly have done justice to Ghouls, but sadly no.

Now for the PS 2, PSX, arcade,Genny, and Supergraphx ports of Ghouls, sure it's not as detailed (Genny and SGFX cases), doesn't stop the games from being difficult but yet superfun. Sure it doesn't have as much detail from the Genny and SGFX to the X68K and arcade versions, but that definitely wouldn't stop me from playing them, as long as the gameplay is intact, and everything else is in place i'm pleased. And Dire 51 (Rob if that's you?) I thought you had given up on the Ghoul Realm, if you're going to keep it up, thanks as I'd hate to see that site decay, if you're going to write a GnG article for Hardcore Gaming 101 I want to thank you in advance as well as I've bugged Kurt forever to put an article up on the GnG series. LOL

[airraid]

nice post Bloodreign, yeah I pretty much agree.

dispite not having arcade-quality graphics, I play the Genesis and SuperGrafx versions all the time. I love them, and they're just as challenging as the arcade, X68000, PS1, Saturn, PS2 and Xbox versions.

I agree with the comments of some people that the SuperGrafx version could've been done on the standard PCE and perhaps done even better on it. with that said, that means the SuperGrafx could've done an even better translation given the proper developer talent.

If you look at 1941 Counter Attack on the SuperGrafx, even though it too is not as good as the arcade 1941, it's closer to the arcade than SuperGrafx Ghouls 'n Ghosts.

Also look at R-Type on the PC-Engine ~ TurboGrafx-16, again while not 'arcade perfect' it is pretty close, minus some resolution, animation and parallax scrolling, it's still 80% of the arcade.

man I would've loved to have seen a true 16-bit PC-Engine2 that is as much of an improvement over the PC-Engine as the Genesis was over the Master System -- a system capable of X68000 or near NEO-GEO quality.

[Dire 51]

credit to The Ghoul Realm (http://www.geocities.com/theghoulrealm/gng3.html) for putting up this scan from EGM #17, December 1990, page 48

You're welcome. When I found it buried in a box of old game mags I had lying around, I knew I had to get it scanned and added to the site.


And Dire 51 (Rob if that's you?) I thought you had given up on the Ghoul Realm, if you're going to keep it up, thanks as I'd hate to see that site decay, if you're going to write a GnG article for Hardcore Gaming 101 I want to thank you in advance as well as I've bugged Kurt forever to put an article up on the GnG series. LOL

Yep, it's me. LOL

I no longer run TGR, but the site's "days of decay" will hopefully be over soon, once the new webmaster finishes the overhaul. I'll still be contributing here and there.

And yeah, Kurt asked me to write the article for HG101 because he stated he's not a big fan of the series. I'll probably be starting work on it soon. After that, I'm thinking a Splatterhouse article for the site. :D

So anyway, you're welcome. :)

[Bloodreign]

In a matter of months it'll be 2 years since the last update, but with the new GnG game around the corner, there will be something to update the site for.

As for Splatterhouse, my fellow mod compadre at CVD and DP poster Ed Oscuro is a huge Splatterhouse fan, I'm sure he'll appreciate that article.

[airraid]

credit to The Ghoul Realm (http://www.geocities.com/theghoulrealm/gng3.html) for putting up this scan from EGM #17, December 1990, page 48

You're welcome. When I found it buried in a box of old game mags I had lying around, I knew I had to get it scanned and added to the site.



yeah.
I remember being kinda perplexed when Ghouls And Ghosts 3 became Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts. some of the cool graphics in the earlier 1990 version were removed from the final 1991 version. man, what I would give for a BETA rom of G&G3 before the changes LOL

[Dire 51]

In a matter of months it'll be 2 years since the last update, but with the new GnG game around the corner, there will be something to update the site for.

As for Splatterhouse, my fellow mod compadre at CVD and DP poster Ed Oscuro is a huge Splatterhouse fan, I'm sure he'll appreciate that article.

I actually wanted to tackle the Splatterhouse article first, but decided against it in favor of the G'NG article. Then again, I might just write them both concurrently. I'll think about it.

I admit, I didn't realize it would take this long for TGR to get whipped into its new shape, but the new webmaster does have a lot of other stuff going on. I'll be making an announcement here when it's relaunched.


some of the cool graphics in the earlier 1990 version were removed from the final 1991 version. man, what I would give for a BETA rom of G&G3 before the changes LOL

Now THAT would be something. Here's hoping it'll turn up someday!

[airraid]

some of the cool graphics in the earlier 1990 version were removed from the final 1991 version. man, what I would give for a BETA rom of G&G3 before the changes LOL

Now THAT would be something. Here's hoping it'll turn up someday!


Amen to that!

[gigadrive]

I have to agree for the most part with AirRaid about
Ghouls 'n Ghosts. I happen to own all the console versions, I have the arcade and X68K roms for MAME and WinX68K (X68000 emu) and there's a dedicated arcade game not too far from my house.

the Megadrive-Genesis is not even close to the arcade, the SuperGrafx is somewhat close but definitally not as nice as the arcade -- it's missing way too much color, some detail and animation. it cannot be arcade perfect, it just isn't.

The X68K is basicly arcade-identical, you'd be hardpressed to tell the difference, and the same can almost be said for the Saturn, Playstation (CapGen2) and PS2, Xbox (Cap Classics) versions too.

the SuperGrafx ver. is a little overrated, but it's good to have ALL the versions on hand because comparisons are always fun :)

[MegaDrive20XX]

have you even actually played a real SuperGrafx ?

No and I bet you haven't either. The fact is, the system was a total waste of time and effort and NEC should have stuck with the PC Engine through thick and thin.

Regardless of the bad sound effects you get from the SUPERGRAFX. You still have one damn fine port. Sure the sprites don't match that of the great Sharp X68.

Which btw I now can vouche for since I have TEH ROM and Capcom Generations Vol. 2 on Saturn to back up my theory

As for PCEnginegrafx.com that's not enough evidence to point out my fault. When you need experience hands-on to truly grasp what the big difference is.

I've seen and played both versions in action, here's the facts to open your ears, other then your eyes.

The fact is Sharp X68000 does have sound effect oddities. for example, the ghoulies rising from the ground have a different sound compared to the real arcade.

Which I do have access to in Cleburne, TX that still has a dedicated cabinet :)

YET! The Spirtes between the ARCADE and Sharp X68K are a match made in heaven. The sound effects cannot be exact, because we are talking of these kind of specs which you may understand, since the Capcom CPS was a bitch to translate successfully during this time. Sure it was 1994 release, yet the Sharp was introduced in 1987 when the CPS Soundchip was finally taking off in a majority of Arcades.

Sure the re-vision was introduced in 1993 of the Sharp X68, but the fact is, it was still using the same sound chip.

Also, let's not forget that HUDSON soft was behind the PC Engine 2 (aka SUPERGRAFX) and the Sharp X68000. So the similarities are still there when it comes to appearence.

Yet what does this have to do with the fact that Daimakaimura has to be lower in stats when it comes to the SUPERGRAFX?

Easy, because this is the HUMAN68K we're talking about, a DOS program. I would only consider Daimakaimura X68K a computer game and not a console by FAR!

Everybody knows that a game on a computer can be performed with excellence due to the computer screen having a great RGB like appearence and the ability to upgrade gives you a major upper advantage by 25MHz Motorola 68030 CPU, 4MB of RAM and optional 80MB SCSI hard drive. Compared to the NEC SUPERGRAFX's 7.16MHz and the Z80 (3.58MHz) sound chip..(Oh look, Motorola Z80 again! golly they are everywhere! :))

Oh wait a minute, Motorola hmmmm...that sounds fimilar...oh I know...they helped design the sound chip for the....

SEGA GENESIS/MEGADRIVE :D Yeah the inferior port that we speak of badly in this entire thread!
Golly, I wonder what ever happened to them...why they helped create our Sharp X68K! *Gasp* Teh Horrror!

Not some of us are so lucky to have this kind of advantage to see the true beauty of the Sharp X68K Computer.


When you call yourself a gamer in my eyes...

There's only one thing I gotta say to you bub....ROOKIE...

I AM GHOULS N GHOSTS and you better believe it friend!

there's no way you can break me down, because I'm only getting stronger.....sorry for the rant, but I'm just stating the FACTS....and I am finished......or am I?? :hmm:

The bottom line, is you are correct sir, the real order of the best port is

1. Sharp X68000
2. Capcom Generations Vol. 2 (Saturn/PSX)
3. NEC SuperGrafx
4. Capcom Classics Collection *Weak sound effects and discolored*
5. Sega Genesis/Megadrive

[airraid]

have you even actually played a real SuperGrafx ?

No and I bet you haven't either.

I knew it. You therefore have no buisness trying to rate SuperGrafx Ghouls 'n Ghosts since you seem to not actually know anything real about it. I've known about SuperGrafx since 1989. I've know about it's translation of Ghouls 'n Ghosts and what the graphics were like since the middle of 1990 when it came out, almost 16 years ago.
I happen to own a SuperGrafx and Ghouls 'n Ghosts. I've beaten it several times and I've played it dozens of times since the late 1990s.

I'm very familar with it. you seem not to be.



Regardless of the bad sound effects you get from the SUPERGRAFX. You still have one damn fine port. Sure the sprites don't match that of the great Sharp X68.

are you that thick?

the SuperGrafx version is NOT a port. it is a translation.
A port means it's using the original graphic and audio assests of the arcade game, which the SuperGrafx version is NOT.

again, read what I posted from Black_Tiger's comments on pcenginefx.com: http://www.pcenginefx.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=344&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15



Neither the Megadrive nor Supergrafx games were real ports, they are more like conversions.

Most of the art/graphics of the MD version is original/redrawn(simplified), like the SMS game, but looks arcadey on it's own(certainly when it came out).

The Supergrafx game uses more of the arcade's graphics art, but uses very few colors and wasn't touched up very much(the game could've been ported to regular PCE way better).

All these people who rant and rave about the 'perfect' port of GnG to SGX or the 'perfect' port of Strider to MD never even try to compare them at all. They just turn on a single game and judge it's "conversion" by how impressed they are from playing the game on it's own.



what he says is true, and I don't care if it's not good enough for you.



Which btw I now can vouche for since I have the ROM and Capcom Generations Vol. 2 on Saturn to back up my theory


I am not impressed by what you can or cannot 'vouche' for, since you do not seem (IMO) to have a credible ability to judge arcade conversions and ports.






The fact is Sharp X68000 does have sound effect oddities. for example, the ghoulies rising from the ground have a different sound compared to the real arcade.

I will agree with you on that, the X68000 audio is not 100% identical to the arcade, yet it is massively better than the piss poor SuperGrafx audio, which has the SAME audio chip as the PC-Engine.



Which I do have access to in Cleburne, TX that still has a dedicated cabinet :)

glad you have access to an arcade machine with which to see just how far off the SuperGrafx version is :)



YET! The Spirtes between the ARCADE and Sharp X68K are a match made in heaven.

yes, they are basicly arcade-identical, without doing some major nit-picking. (which is not the case when comparing SuperGrafx to Arcade because of the large difference)



The sound effects cannot be exact, because we are talking of these kind of specs which you may understand, since the Capcom CPS was a bitch to translate successfully during this time. Sure it was 1994 release, yet the Sharp was introduced in 1987 when the CPS Soundchip was finally taking off in a majority of Arcades.

sound effects are not exact, but they're closer to arcade than SuperGrafx.




There's only one thing I gotta say to you bub....ROOKIE...

I AM GHOULS N GHOSTS and you better believe it friend!


okay, whatever you say buddy LOL LOL LOL LOL



there's no way you can break me down, because I'm only getting stronger.....sorry for the rant, but I'm just stating the FACTS....and I am finished......or am I?? :hmm:


whatever.



The bottom line, is you are correct sir, the real order of the best port is

1. Sharp X68000
2. Capcom Generations Vol. 2 (Saturn/PSX)
3. NEC SuperGrafx
4. Capcom Classics Collection *Weak sound effects and discolored*
5. Sega Genesis/Megadrive

ok I admit this rating is closer to how I would rate it.

but mine is

1. Sharp X68000
2. Capcom Generations 2 - Capcom Classics Collection
(tie because CCC *is* based on PS1 CapGen2)
3. SuperGrafx
4. Sega Megadrive-Genesis

how you can still possibly rate the SuperGrafx version above the Capcom Classics Collection version on PS2/Xbox is beyond me. IT IS THE SAME AS THE PS1 Capcom Generation 2 version, aside from any barely noticable audio differences.

am I saying the Capcom Classics Collection version is arcade-exact? NO. but it is head and shoulders above the SuperGrafx version. end of arguement. LOL

[MegaDrive20XX]

First off, Conversions is the same word as port. Are you thick or do you need a Theasaurus or Dictionary?
Here ya go, Conversions, noun... meaning......adaptation...alteration...translation ....a port...if you will :)

And you also misread the fact that you need experience hands-on to truly grasp what the big difference is. over reading a review

Also I have finished the SuperGrafx version many times via Emulator fyi. Just because you own the system doesn't make you better and just makes me know as much as you.

I have finished the Arcade many times in my past as, and imho you are quite thick not to give up and understand that the Sharp was the best

Plus again you didn't even read obviously, what I stated about the sound chip of the NEC SuperGrafx

yes, they are basicly arcade-identical, without doing some major nit-picking. (which is not the case when comparing SuperGrafx to Arcade because of the large difference)

You are nit-picking wheather you wish to deny it or not. Why else do you think we've carried on this far??

Listen "Buddy" you are too fuckin thick to actually agree to the Capcom Classics is TIED to the Capcom Generations Vol. 2

The sound effects sounded like you took a shit on them and called it "Whatever" since you love that word so much like a 14 year old kid and the colors are terribly washed out like your eyes are right now when you read this damn thread and misinterupt 4 quotes already.

Do you even own Capcom Classics Collection? Because I was seriously pissed off when they destoried Ghouls N Ghosts, terrible emulation. Sure they could get Final Fight right but not Ghouls N Ghosts? You seriously gotta wake up and see that there is something wrong with that damn game! Whatcha expect for a $20 game compliation???

No fuckin way in hell is it better then the SuperGrafx version

END of arguement my ass, you get your candy ass back in here and face me

[ACCarl]

First off, Conversions is the same word as port. Are you thick or do you need a Theasaurus or Dictionary?
Here ya go, Conversions, noun... meaning......adaptation...alteration...translation ....a port...if you will :)

And you also misread the fact that you need experience hands-on to truly grasp what the big difference is. over reading a review

Also I have finished the SuperGrafx version many times via Emulator fyi. Just because you own the system doesn't make you better and just makes me know as much as you.

I have finished the Arcade many times in my past as, and imho you are quite thick not to give up and understand that the Sharp was the best

Plus again you didn't even read obviously, what I stated about the sound chip of the NEC SuperGrafx

yes, they are basicly arcade-identical, without doing some major nit-picking. (which is not the case when comparing SuperGrafx to Arcade because of the large difference)

You are nit-picking wheather you wish to deny it or not. Why else do you think we've carried on this far??

Listen "Buddy" you are too fuckin thick to actually agree to the Capcom Classics is TIED to the Capcom Generations Vol. 2

The sound effects sounded like you took a shit on them and called it "Whatever" since you love that word so much like a 14 year old kid and the colors are terribly washed out like your eyes are right now when you read this damn thread and misinterupt 4 quotes already.

Do you even own Capcom Classics Collection? Because I was seriously pissed off when they destoried Ghouls N Ghosts, terrible emulation. Sure they could get Final Fight right but not Ghouls N Ghosts? You seriously gotta wake up and see that there is something wrong with that damn game! Whatcha expect for a $20 game compliation???

No fuckin way in hell is it better then the SuperGrafx version

END of arguement my ass, you get your candy ass back in here and face me

I think you need to change your name. You have obviously been exposed. Just because your in love with a game doesn't mean you know anything about it. I mean come on now. The more you post the more you look like an idiot. Your just embarrassing yourself each time you post again in this thread.
From now we will call you:
"Don'tknowSHITaboutGNG"

[InsaneDavid]

Hmmm... airraid, gigadrive, ACCarl all the same person or playing multi-flame? Perhaps...

[MegaDrive20XX]

I think you need to change your name. You have obviously been exposed. Just because your in love with a game doesn't mean you know anything about it. I mean come on now. The more you post the more you look like an idiot. Your just embarrassing yourself each time you post again in this thread.
From now we will call you:
"Don'tknowSHITaboutGNG"

He's right....because Carl, you're just a noob, and I guess Noobs are always right...so we'll just change your name to "BrownNosingCarl" to make it even :)

[scooterb23]

This a great thread idea that is dangerously close getting ruined by a few people who can't seem to respect another person's right to an opinion. It already got close to the brink once, don't be stupid folks and push it over.


Ghouls and Ghosts is a good game, I'm not good at it, I don't really care about which version of the game is best...I just like to play the game when I see it.

That's all I really have to say.

[airraid]

I think you need to change your name. You have obviously been exposed. Just because your in love with a game doesn't mean you know anything about it. I mean come on now. The more you post the more you look like an idiot. Your just embarrassing yourself each time you post again in this thread.
From now we will call you:
"Don'tknowSHITaboutGNG"

I can go along with that. what do you think,
'IDon'tknowSHITaboutGhouls'NGhosts'

he takes on a name about a game which he really doesnt know anything about, isn't that sad?

[Ed Oscuro]

Ease up guys. The RR's all about discussing for the sake of learning, so if GnG doesn't know everything perfectly this is a chance to correct any misunderstandings without flaming the hell outta each other.

Also, airraid is not an alt (unless a Forumer played a mean trick on me); I invited him here from another Forum.

Random thought in closing...I gotta say, the Makaimura series is awesome. The original only seems sorta primitive after all the years, but consider that platforming with a life bar was (so I read) invented only the year before, in Namco's Dragon Buster. GnG trashes that game.

[Dire 51]

I have no wish to see this thread locked either, so can we just get on with the G'NG discussion and leave the flaming for PMs?

With that being said, has anyone gotten to Hebi Island in Higemaru Makaijima (Famicom)? I owned the cart for a while, but could never get anywhere in it, so I never made it to Hebi Island. I really wanted to see all of the G'NG stuff in it too.

You can check out pics of Hebi Island here: The Ghoul Realm: Trivia Page 2 (http://www.geocities.com/theghoulrealm/trivia2.html). Just scroll down until you find the Higemaru Makaijima entry.

[Steven]

BTW what do you folks think of that GnG "puzzler"? Nazo something. It was released on Saturn. I played it but never got into it so I sold it off. :P

[ACCarl]

Nope I'm a different person. I used to come on here all the time but I don't as often anymore. I just think Ghouls N Ghosts reminds me of the comic book guy from the Simpsons. He likes to act like a snob and pretend he knows everything about a game when it's obvious he doesn't. Look at his order of the Ghoul's N Ghosts. It makes him feel so hardcore when he can pretend the Japanese Saturn and Super Grafx were better than the new PS2 because he went out of his way to collect them. He likes the fact he can act like two rare versions of the game are supposedly superior to the PS2. Then all of a sudden the PS2 gets versions better than the Super Grafx and the same as the Saturn/PS1 versions and it just pisses him off. Then Airraid comes on here showing him up. I'm sure he can't even sleep at night knowing this.

[airraid]

Nope I'm a different person. I used to come on here all the time but I don't as often anymore. I just think Ghouls N Ghosts reminds me of the comic book guy from the Simpsons. He likes to act like a snob and pretend he knows everything about a game when it's obvious he doesn't. Look at his order of the Ghoul's N Ghosts. It makes him feel so hardcore when he can pretend the Japanese Saturn and Super Grafx were better than the new PS2 because he went out of his way to collect them. He likes the fact he can act like two rare versions of the game are supposedly superior to the PS2. Then all of a sudden the PS2 gets versions better than the Super Grafx and the same as the Saturn/PS1 versions and it just pisses him off. Then Airraid comes on here showing him up. I'm sure he can't even sleep at night knowing this.

I agree for the most part, but I would not say that the PS2 version is really better than the Japanese Saturn version. they're almost the same.

Saturn version = Capcom Generation Vol 2
PS2/Xbox version = PS1 Capcom Generation Vol 2

comparing the Saturn and PS1 Capcom Generation Vol 2 versions, they're both nearly the same, but the distant parallax backgrounds in the Saturn version are brighter and more visible. Capcom totally fucked up the distant parallax scrolling backgrounds of the PS1 version, they're barely visible, and because of this, its also the same deal with the PS2 and Xbox versions because they're based on the PS1 version. turning up the brightness and/or contrast on your television-monitor helps to some degree, with seeing the distant backgrounds.

with that said, the PS1/PS2/Xbox version is still arcade-quality (even though they're not arcade-exact) and without a doubt superior to the SuperGrafx translation

'IDon'tKnowShitAboutGhouls'NGhosts' is wrong when he said that conversion, translation and port means the same thing, they don't, at least in my book.

another thing I wanted to clear up, having played my own real DaiMakaiMura SuperGrafx HuCard on my real SuperGrafx, and also playing the rom on the MagicEngine emu, while it is nice to have the real thing, IMO it is still possible to make a reasonable judgement of the SuperGrafx version using emulation for comparison purposes.

I have not played a real Sharp X68000 machine, only played it via emulation. I trust that the emulator is pretty accurate even though it's not QUITE the same as playing a real machine. someday I would like to play a real X68000. I've heard they're really not that difficult to get dispite the rarity.
a X68000 copy of DaiMakaiMura might be harder to come by though.

It should also be noted that, while extremely powerful, more powerful than the SuperGrafx, the X68000 is not as powerful as the CPS hardware, although it's closer to it than the SuperGrafx. the X68000 puts out 128 sprites of 16x16 pixels. the CPS puts out 256 objects (sprites) of 16x16 pixels. X68000 has 2 hardware background layers, the CPS has 3. X68000 has the capability to put 256 colors on screen at once out of a palette of 65,536. the CPS has the same sized color palette but can put at least 2048 colors on screen at once (maybe 4096, not sure). but many early CPS games seem to use 256 colors.

X68000 DaiMakaiMura does not seem color-deficient compared to the arcade, whereas the SuperGrafx version looks color-deficient at first glance, even to the untrained eye or non-techie (that would be me!), which is odd, because I've seen regular PCE-TG16 games with better use of color and more colors on-screen.