Retro computer (mid 80's) advice.

[DeputyMoniker]

I didn't spend much time on a computer until the late 90's. I missed out on the early days. I'd like to get myself something from the early days of computing. I have a few questions...
1. What was the FFVII of the 80's?
2. What is a fun computer that will run that game?
3. What should I do to really dig my fingers into the 80's experience? What do you reccomend I do with this computer?

[Flack]

I am about to go to bed but you need a Commodore 64, and I have a few spares if you're looking to pick one up if you want a real one, or I can hook you up with emulators if you wanna go that route too.

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

Gonna shuffle this buffalo over to Classic Gaming. But here also are some answers to your queries:

1. Ultima IV. Ultima IV. And Ultima IV.
2. Apple II or PC. In fact, look around, you might find the EA Ultima Collection that'll run on modern PCs (at least as recent as Win98), with the first seven (if I recall correctly) Ultima games. Great value.
3. Not sure my answers above leave an applicable answer here. Um...listen to Tiffany and Jody Watley while you're slaying orcs? That'll provide an appropriate 80s experience.

[DeputyMoniker]

Um...listen to Tiffany and Jody Watley while you're slaying orcs? That'll provide an appropriate 80s experience.

I should have specified. I'm looking for a FUN 80's experience. That was my mistake.

Flack: Thanks. I'll read up on the Commodore 64 and see if it's what I'm looking for. I'll let you know.

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

Well, okay, you can skip the music. But do check out Ultima IV. It truly rocks.

[DeputyMoniker]

...you need a Commodore 64

Yeah I'm all over that. I'll give you a call this weekend. You know, I can't believe with it being released in 1982 it came with both a DVD and a Blu-Ray drive. Wow. LOL
What do you have for the spares? Keyboard, drives, monitor...I don't know what parts of this picture are considered the unit. :P

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d82/Amducias/08ceda28.gif

[Mangar]

While everyone has there personal favourites(Mine being Bards Tale and the Wizards Crown series) look no further then Ultima 4. It was the defining RPG of the 1980's, and still looked upon as probably the single best RPG ever made. So in order..

1. Ultima 4

2. Commodore 64

3. Buy some hairspray and force your woman to do her hair up "Big", while listening to Safety Dance and Duran Duran.

[DeputyMoniker]

While everyone has there personal favourites(Mine being Bards Tale and the Wizards Crown series) look no further then Ultima 4. It was the defining RPG of the 1980's, and still looked upon as probably the single best RPG ever made. So in order..

1. Ultima 4

2. Commodore 64

3. Buy some hairspray and force your woman to do her hair up "Big", while listening to Safety Dance and Duran Duran.

I recently posted in the "What are you listening to right now" thread that Ive downloaded the top 1,000 songs of 1980-1989 so I have pleanty of music to set the mood. LOL
I'll post a pic of me going all 80's.

[smork]

Heh. I'll mention my faves -- Ultima IV & Ultima V. Everybody liked Ultima IV! I played mine on a C128 -- but it was in C64 mode so it was the same ol experience.

You can still do it on today's equip, too -- they made a legal port of Ultima IV over to Linux (licensed-n-all). You can also find an Ultima I-VI collection running around, and if you run it under dosbox or something similar it plays just like the original.

But ya need the old felt maps! I always liked those. That'll make it all feel "authentic".

If you want to get totally old skool, get some games on tape and a cassette player -- don't remember the model number. (Don't think any Ultima comes on those, though - U-IV was 4 5.25" floppies IIRC)

You should attach a 300 baud modem (or a 1200 baud if you feel liked splashing out) and hang out on Compuserve. Or, get a list of BBS numbers from a buddy. Make sure you have a few floppies die on you for no apparent reason for maximum nostalgia.

[DeputyMoniker]

I've been Googling it & I checked ebay. I'm not having any luck. Anybody know a place where I can get a complete Ultima IV for C64? How much should I expect to pay for it?

[Mayhem]

Everyone needs some C64 loving ;)

Aside from Ultima IV, you should check out the following:

Impossible Mission (Epyx)
Mercenary (Novagen)
Paradroid (Hewson, Thunder Mountain in the US I think)
Zak McKraken (Lucasfilm)
Wizard of Wor (Commodore)
The Last Ninja (System 3, Activision in the US)
The Sentinel (Firebird, called The Sentry in the US)
Hardball (Accolade)
Gunship (Microprose)
The Bard's Tale (EA/Interplay)
Champions of Krynn (SSI)

I've deliberately tried to choose games here that are either American or were released in the US. There's a LOT of excellent classic games that only came out in Europe sadly, and indeed the majority of the C64 love found today resides over this side. Hence why most of the emulator images found online for example are from PAL sources.

Complete U4 seems to be here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Utima-IV-by-ORIGIN-Systems-for-Commodore-64_W0QQitemZ8263782211QQcategoryZ4315QQssPageNameZ WDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It's that or the $500 sealed copy currently up LOL

[Blitzwing256]

wheres the love for ultima 3 exodus?

I felt that was a better game then 4 in many ways (not knocking 4 at all as it was awesome in its own right)

but yeah, go for 3 and 4 if you can find em both.

[Cantaloup]

You can still do it on today's equip, too -- they made a legal port of Ultima IV over to Linux (licensed-n-all).

It runs on Windows and Mac OS X as well; it's called xu4 (http://xu4.sourceforge.net/).

[tritium]

Interesting Thread.

Don't forget Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego ont he Apple II, and The Oregon Trail, Karateka, and Prince of Persia.

[cyberfluxor]

Ive downloaded the top 1,000 songs of 1980-1989

I've had the top 100's for a few years now from 1948 to today. They come in handy because when someone has an old tune stuck in their head, you can pull it up easy.

But to the questions at hand. I was an IBM kid with a Packard Bell 386 system that had the rare secondary math coprocessor. Although it's not all 80's, if you play the Sierra Quest games they are really fun. I would suggest looking for an old Apple system or IBM brand to run random games on, but you must have the right hardware. Also make sure you buy from someone near by so you can test and make sure everything works. Last, get yourself an old VGA 21" CRT black & white or low resolution color monitor. They weigh a TON but are freaking awesome and stand out in the corner. I had one for awhile and it hummed really loud, but I didn't have a computer to use it on, so I donated it a few months back. Ironically my brother tossed me an old IBM clunker 486x that could have used it.

If you want some real classic experience, I picked up one of these nice keyboards at a pawn shop for $2, and you should get one too for 80's style PC gaming.
http://home.att.net/~terminals/images/42H1292-tc1-m.jpg

[Griking]

Ultima IV was available for the Apple II computers as well.

I second (or 20th) the suggestion for Ultima IV btw. Other recommendations are;

Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (and it's sequels)
The Bard's Tale Series
Might & Magic Series
The SSI Gold Box Games

[DeputyMoniker]

I shouldnt jump right into Ultima IV. I should play some other games so I'll understand what made Ultima IV so good. What shoudl I start with? It doesnt have to be an RPG.

[almostgotthemall]

If you decide the C64 is for you, you must try Temple of Apshai and Kaiv. Simple, but fun!

[staxx]

Here we go fun 80's games

ZX Spectrum
Frank Bruno's Boxing
Sabateur
World Games
Hyper Sports
Winter Games
Bubble Bobble
Head Over Heels
Batman
Sabrewulf
Green Beret (known as Rush n Attack)
Way of the Tiger
Gauntlet
School Daxe
Back to School (School Daze 2)
Dan Dare

C64:
Flash Gordon
Hades Nebula
Nemesis (aka Gradius)
Gauntlet
Tau Ceti
Academy (Tau Ceti 2)
Ghost n Goblins
Yie Ar Kung Fu
Way of the Exploding Fist
International Karate
Manic Miner
Jet Set Willy
Head Over Heels
Winter Games
Attack of the Mutant Camels
Hyper Sports
Paradroid
Uridium
Bruce Lee
Suicide Express
Monty on the Run
Kung Fu Master
World Games
Summer Games I and II
Frank Bruno's Boxing
Pole Position
Last Ninja
Sabateur
Sanxion
Wizball
Salamander
Street Fighter (US version)
Crazy Comets
Commando
Rambo First Blood
Green Beret (known as Rush n Attack)
Great Giana Sisters
Dan Dare
Delta
Armalyte
Parallax
Bombjack

(Very late 80s)
Amiga
Wizball
Dragons Lair
International Karate Plus
It Came From the Desert I and II
Rocket Ranger
Speedball I and II
Xenon II
Lotus Challenge I and II
Kickoff
Deuteros
Warhead
Bards Tale
Dungeon Master II
Eye of the Beholder
Lemmings

[InsaneDavid]

Get a Tomy Tutor! One up on the 'bay right now (http://cgi.ebay.com/TOMY-TUTOR-Vintage-Computer-Pyuuta-Grandstand_W0QQitemZ8770865097QQcategoryZ1247QQssP ageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem). They don't come up all that often and it's a nice obscure piece to have in your collection. Some great games too, namely the best version of Jungler and Loco-Motion as well as games like Traffic Jam.

[LoneEagle]

Hey... Talking C64... You cant miss Mail Order Monsters!
Great Game!! Also pick up BC's Quest for Tires... Another can't miss!!!

[Mangar]

Hey... Talking C64... You cant miss Mail Order Monsters!
Great Game!! Also pick up BC's Quest for Tires... Another can't miss!!!

Mail Order Monsters is probably my official "Favourite Game of all Time." The guys who worked on my Everquest 1 emulator server, were actually working on a completely new, yet similar game with 3D Modeled Monsters and the like. Looked like it was coming along nicely, until they managed to get snatched up by a big Video-Game company out in California. Ahh well.

I think the reason why Ultima 3 never really gets the same press as Ultima 4, is that while it's a solid game - It's still your typical RPG. IE: Kill the big bad guy. Whereas Ultima 4 for it's time-frame was completely unique. You had to be totally immersed in how you played your character, and pay attention to small details. A virtueous Avatar don't exactly steal treasure chests, and you had to fight this temptation. It was really the first single-player RPG in which your actions had an affect on the gameworld around you. Not to mention the rather non-standard "Plot" of the game.

Bruce Lee is probably the best non-RPG 80's computer game to get. It's not an arcade port, not available really for consoles, and introduces some rather unique concepts for a platformer. (IE: In 2 player mode, instead of your buddy sitting there and watching you. He gains control over the Green Bad Guy, and can try and kill you while you play. In Single player mode, he is computer controlled.) The game is also solidly designed, and fun all the way through. More importantly, i think it still holds up rather well today. Really one of the best games ever made.

[tom]

Don't forget some cool C-64 cartridges: International Soccer amongst them.

And some neat Activision: LCP, Fast Tracks, John van Ryzin Fireworks Contruction Kit, Alter Ego (both), Portal, TGACCRR

Infocom: many, but Hollywood Hi-Jinx and Lurking Horror are excellent

SSI wargaming: many, if you got some spare weeks

Broderbund: Halley's Project, Relax (with hardware, if you can find it)

Accolade: PSi5 Trading Company

EA: many, incl Patton vs Rommel, Demon Stalkers, Sentinel Worlds: Future Magic, Project Firestart, and the original Madden game

Origin: Space Rogue, Times of Lore & Knights of Legend are also both excellent RPGs

Access: Echolon, Leaderboard, Raid over Moscow

Or try real American, ditch that Commodore and go for the Apple ][, actually very important for 80s USA gaming, (see article for some great games):

http://videogamecollectors.com/gallery/album110

Apple ][: 16000 titles by 1985, biggest 8-bit software library in the world

[squidblatt]

Ultima IV is good series, but it was never my favorite. I preferred the SSI Gold Box games, and the Magic Candle series. The latter is often overlooked, but happens to be one of the best PCRPGs made. Just remember that this series, and many others, requires you to keep a tablet at your side for taking notes. Don't forget Wasteland, either.

Another game you can't miss is Empire. It's a strategy title, and one of the greatest.

Seven Cities of Gold may be worth getting into, as well.

Finally, there is Infocom. You can't appreciate the eighties without their titles.

[Trebuken]

I lived on C-64 in the '80's.
I'd buy a 128, I believe the majority of C64 works well with it.

Phantasie III for C64 (I+II on Apple),
Questron I + II
Spell of Chameleon
Demonstalkers
Druids + Druids II (Great for 2-players)
Zork series (someone said Infocom, I only played the Zork games myself)
Avenger (tough one to find)
Battletech: The Crescent Hawk's Inception
SSI Gold Boxed AD&D games, Hillsfar...
Bounty Bob Strikes Back
Wizard of Wor
Dark Castle
Defender of the Crown (gotta' play this)
Forbidden Forest (maybe not)
H.E.R.O.
Might & Magic I + II
Paradroid (this is a fun little game)
Faery Tale
Moebius (little weird)

Of course all the Ultimas and Bards Tale Games...

Many of these games have Amiga versions. I have been thinking of going the Amiga route myself. The amount of different hardware available for the Amiga makes it tough to figure out what the best setup would be though...

Later,
Trebuken

[Flack]

Mail Order Monsters is probably my official "Favourite Game of all Time."

Definitely a classic. My review of it was posted on TheLogBook's C64 Section (http://www.thelogbook.com/phosphor/c64/2006/m.htm).

Also, in case this helps anyone, I wrote and posted a handy guide to C64 emulation (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=81460) which will have you up and running old C64 games on your PC in just a few minutes. Nothing hard about it at all. And while it'll never replace playing the classics on the real hardware, it's a convenient alternative for those who don't have a Commie (or six) lying around the house.

If you do end up picking up a real '64, I wrote an article for the online knowledge base about what you'll need and how to hook it up (http://www.digitpress.com/livefaq/index.php?action=artikel&cat=22&id=73&artlang=en).

[vulcanjedi]

My goodness.

Not one mention of Atari? I guess most of it was available on the C64 anyway. But what about Alternate Reality? It was ported to the C64 but the atari version still looked much better.

And why not go back to Ultima 1? It really has that 80's feel to it :) Or if you want to go back as far into the 80's as you can pick up a TRS-80 Dungeons Of Daggeroth for the CoCo.

VJ

[Fanboy]

Bruce Lee is probably the best non-RPG 80's computer game to get. It's not an arcade port, not available really for consoles, and introduces some rather unique concepts for a platformer. (IE: In 2 player mode, instead of your buddy sitting there and watching you. He gains control over the Green Bad Guy, and can try and kill you while you play. In Single player mode, he is computer controlled.) The game is also solidly designed, and fun all the way through. More importantly, i think it still holds up rather well today. Really one of the best games ever made.

I think you -- and others here -- may enjoy this pixel-perfect remake for the PC. I played it through and beat it the first night I downloaded it.

Bruce Lee Remake (http://www.planetflibble.com/blitz/)

[diskoboy]

I strongly agree with all the people who say you should check out a C-64.

But how come no one has mentioned EA's Adventure Construction Set? :D

Spent many hours on that game back in the day. Playing and designing. I still even play it on emulators, every now and then. So much fun.

And 3 of my all time favorite non-RPG C-64 games:

-Jumpman Junior (Epyx)
-Spare Change (Broderbund)
-Impossible Mission (Epyx)

[tom]

Atari 800/XL only came third in the 8-bit race in the USA, of course, many excellent games available for this machine which aren't on any other PC format from that time.

The Final Legacy on cartridge
Dimension X, for it's unmatched speed
Eastern Front cartridge

Many other games on XL shine, whilst pale comparisons don't cut it: M.U.L.E., Ballblazer, The Eidolon, Rescue on Fractalus,Dropzone, Flight Simulator II on cartridge

Needless to say, Atari holds the biggest 8-bit cartridge range of any 8-bit Computer.

[Mayhem]

Needless to say, Atari holds the biggest 8-bit cartridge range of any 8-bit Computer.

I think the C64 section will disagree (when Joe updates with the latest file I sent) here heh...

That's individually both games and utilities... I shudder to think how many thousands of obscure util carts that came out in Germany, Holland and eastern Europe are waiting to be discovered.

(games wise it's 287 as per my spreadsheet)

[tom]

Don't shudder Mayhem, I'm a German living in Germany, being the owner of almost all 64'er (top German C-64 magazine), Happy Computer, and other German gaming and computer magazines from the 80s, there aren't 1000s of Utility carts here for the C-64 to be discovered, Holland is too small, and the Eastern Countries mostly used Discs because of financing. But don't get me wrong, there are some German carts for the C-64, but not many.

As for Atari carts, 'Classic Carts for XL' lists 300 + releases (up to year 2002, counted quickly, few repeats), plus another 60+ with label variations, plus another 20+ prototypes, plus another 30+ different boxed re-issues, also 13 Romox carts, plus another 40+ made by Video 61 (and they still make new ones even now), plus another 20 bootlegs, plus another 90+ unreleased still yet to be found carts (sounds more plausible than 1000s), more warehouse findings (Bruce Lee on cart is one of the latest (Best Electronics). And I am not even gonna start with homebrew and foreign releases.

As I said, Atari holds the biggest 8-bit cartridge range of any 8-bit Computer.

[Mayhem]

Then how come the list here on DP (US wise for starters) is only just over 200?

Btw I was including foreign releases if they were different. There's three listed here at DP. I take it then the lists are... incomplete... if you are stating there's really that many out there for the machine?

Label variation, box variation, modern reproductions... don't count. I was just counting official produced US and foreign releases (ie. those in sections 1 and 2).

[tom]

How come the US list for XL carts only lists a bit over 200? Shouldn't you be asking Joe, or whoever does the 800/XL listing?

Look here:

http://my.execpc.com/~krieg/links/8bit.carts

List is a bit old, so there are more XL carts of course nowdays.

Atari released approx 100 carts for 800/XL alone...

Always remember, Atari revolutionized and popularized cartridges on computers, others, like Commodore, Ti, followed

[Mayhem]

I see the distinction here then though... the online rarity guide is only tracking Atari XE perhaps?

I don't know that much about the compatibility and differences in the Atari computer range admitedly. Would some of those not listed in the guide not work on the XE then? Which, of course, would explain their absence.

Hence then, do all XE carts work on the XL? Confusing and clear as mud to me :P

I'm imagine there's a lot of cross compatibility going on. Given that list you posted (to which I counted about 310 US releases), is there any one machine out of the entire range that would play all of them okay?

Btw Atari weren't that far ahead of Commodore I guess. Commodore were releasing carts in mid 1980 for example (for the Vic20).

[tom]

That listing is tracking the cart range of ATARI 8-bit Computers, ranging from 400 to XE-GS, as written in the heading.

The only distinction you have to worry about is 400/800 and XL/XE as some softs written for the Colleen and Candy machines are not compatible on later XL/XE machines (see * in the listing). Comparible later with Amiga 500 and 500+ compatibility problems. But again, mostly a Tranlator will solve the 800/XL problem.

Some companies wrote carts for both machines, one to work with 400/800 computers, the other for XL/XE; see in listing for example under Walling Companies cartridges AProm and AProm XL, hence you can count those as 2 carts (Which they are).

Some carts require 64K, and won't run on 48K, unless you upgrade to 64K. Logical I guess.

Atari released Star Raiders on cart in 1979:

http://www.sonic.net/~nbs/star-raiders/author.html

which is by your comparison with VIC very much earlier.
But I'm sure VIC carts were already around 82/83 anyway.

Just out of interest look at that Star Raiders webpage, and compare with UKs Elite: Docking with Space station, Galactic Chart map, hyperspace jump, energy usage, long range view, damage etc etc....

Weren't they copying other ideas, heh!!!!!

[Mayhem]

The only distinction you have to worry about is 400/800 and XL/XE as some softs written for the Colleen and Candy machines are not compatible on later XL/XE machines (see * in the listing). Comparible later with Amiga 500 and 500+ compatibility problems. But again, mostly a Tranlator will solve the 800/XL problem.

Some companies wrote carts for both machines, one to work with 400/800 computers, the other for XL/XE; see in listing for example under Walling Companies cartridges AProm and AProm XL, hence you can count those as 2 carts (Which they are).

You see, this is where it gets confusing a bit. Personally I wouldn't be tracking different carts as separate entries just because they only work with some of the models. I'd also be tracking a separate list for each model full stop.

Or in other words, have one list for XE, one list for XL, one list for 400/800 etc, not all lumped together and then totalling the combined lot as one ;)

Sure they'd be plenty of crossover, but it would make life easier to see what carts work on what machine, and point out the incompatibilities.

As for Star Raiders, the 400/800 wasn't out until late 79, so the difference in times is closer than you might think. As said the Vic20 was released June 1980 (in Japan) and had carts available from the start.

As for Star Raiders vs Elite, I believe Braben and Bell do credit the game with some of the ideas they later used. I'd have to go reference some of the interviews they did. It is rather an expanded vision of the game however with trading, missions, Whichspace and more to encounter.

[tom]

No it's not confusing at all, it's very simple: they are Atari Computer 8 bit cartridges, no seperation needed (to seperate just 20 Atari 800-only titles for the sake of incompatible difficulties is just silly). And XL - XE needs absolute no seperation, as they are totally compatible.

It's not like C-128 only games, which must be seperated from C-64 softs eg: A Mind Forever Voyaging, Bureaucracy...

[Mayhem]

No it's not confusing at all, it's very simple: they are Atari Computer 8 bit cartridges, no seperation needed (to seperate just 20 Atari 800-only titles for the sake of incompatible difficulties is just silly). And XL - XE needs absolute no seperation, as they are totally compatible.

If that's the case then, then I wonder what the difference between the list here at DP and the one you posted really is then...?

[tom]

Dunno really, the DP guide only lists a bit more than 200 carts (just over 200, you said),

the Cartridge list I posted for Atari 8-bit carts list around 400+ carts,

so I'd say the difference is: ABOUT 200 carts?

Take away 20 which are Atari 800 only, lets say 180+ carts?

Which still totals 380 + carts for the Atari XL/XE computer, my original statement:

Atari holds the biggest 8-bit cartridge range of any 8-bit Computer.

[Mayhem]

If you got the time you could always take a copy of both lists and see what ones are "missing"... maybe figure a pattern...?

I bet for starters though that a game made differently for 400/800 and XE/XL (because of the incompatibilities as you state) is still only listed as one entry here (which is what I would do personally).

Box variations, label variations etc are not separated. Each game from an individual publisher is listed once and once only, regardless of how many variations on it there are.

[tom]

Come on you're getting silly now. The list I provided lists 300+ original Atari 8-bit cartridges, plus another 14 Romox and another 47 Video 61 carts, I don't even include 20 Protos so you are happy about that?

Box and label variations are listed seperatly under the heading "REISSUES AND LABEL VARIATIONS" if you'd care to read. I did not include them in my count.

As for the 20 Atari 800 only carts, MY GOD IT'S ONLY APPROX 20 CARTS. Out of 380+ carts (400+ really with Video 61 and Romox and protos) for the XL/XE I don't really care.

[tom]

And one more thing: The list I provided ended in 2002, so you have to add even more XL carts from 2002 till 2006.


Coming to think of it, I don't think you should seperate incompatible Atari 800 carts from XL Computers, after all, you don't seperate incompatible USA Atari 7800 carts from 7800 PAL consoles, do you Mayhem! I bet you list 7800 carts as one entry.

Or incompatible Japanese, USA PSX titles from PAL PSXs, or Genesis from MegaDrive, PC Engine from TGs, Japanese SNES from PAL SNES......this could go on and on...if Mayhem has it his way.

[Rosemary]

I have just come back from the USA and I picked up some Playstation CD games. I have now discovered that they will not work on my UK Playstation unless I get a region cheat disc of some sort, so I was told. I am a complete newbie collecting games, but I will catalogue all Playstation games together, if they are coming from the USA or England, I will not make a difference.

Yes, I second Toms advice, count Atari computer cartridges as one, he said a translator disc will solve the incompatible problem anyway, to me this sounds very much like a Playstation region cheat disc.

PS: USA was great, and hello to all of you great guys.

[Mayhem]

Coming to think of it, I don't think you should seperate incompatible Atari 800 carts from XL Computers, after all, you don't seperate incompatible USA Atari 7800 carts from 7800 PAL consoles, do you Mayhem! I bet you list 7800 carts as one entry.

Was only thinking that way because they are a different model of computer, they have a different name. An NTSC 7800 is the same as a PAL 7800 apart from the video chip and the BIOS encryption.

Anyhow, no need to get knickers in twist here ;)