Strangest Ebay Tales Ever !! Please Help.....is this a scam?

[Mr.Faxanadu]

Hey everyone!

This has got to be one of the most twisted ebay scams (?) ever! I’ll try to give some of the key details:

Sold this:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5873991875

Immediately after the auction closed the winner “pin doc” or Mark tells me he is moving and to send it to another address

He then tells me he is sending payment via money order.

He then sends me another email telling me to NOT send it to the “new” address and just send it to his regular address

I then get a email out of the blue from one of the bidders “Monte_710” telling me that the winner “pin doc” is a well known scam artist as seen in many forums:
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=292&highlight=uttley

In reading this and looking at the bidders of the auction I can say that 3 of them were the same guy “Mark”

Classicchevy57
Said name was Mark
Said he lived here: (NOT IMPORTANT) Postal Code L9H2H2

revox_docx (this guy emailed me with interest in the auction)
Name – Mark
Ph# - 1-XXX-XXX-5003

pin_doc (who won the auction)
Name - Mark
Lives - (NOT IMPORTANT) Postal Code L9H2H2
Ph# - 1-XXX-XXX-5003

I then read in one of the MANY fraud warnings against this “mark” guy that one of his ebay accounts is “monte 710” (the guy who warned me of the scams) meaning that he warned me about himself ??!!??

So I emailed the winner explaining how I learnt of all this and he replied stating is was all slander etc… He then said it has something to do with pinball machine deals that went bad and the he had NOTHING to do with any of these people. It then takes me a matter of 2 seconds to realize that his username is “pin doc” which to me could mean pinball doctor (as in fixes them up)

Anyway so here is my situation (and here’s where I think the scam lies)–

I have a legit money order from him that I have not cashed yet. He said if the transaction doesn’t go though I should just return it to him.

He sent it to me using a registered letter so there is proof that I got it.

I told him I would consider sending it to him it he acknowledges that the item is indeed sold as-is and that I would not be responsible if it were to be lost in the mail. I asked that he acknowledges this is a statement sent to me though ebay so it’s on record. I have not received this statement after asking for it twice!

So, I’m guessing he is trying to pull the old “I never got it” scam. My guess is he was hoping I would just send him the money order back or the actual package to him without tracking it. Right now, If I send back the money order back or the package out to him either one will be WELL tracked. So I’m wondering – Can he claim that either item never arrived even if he has to sign for it ? If I decide to cash the money order and send him the package (after the order clears) does he have any recourse against me if he decides to claim something (i.e. it doesn’t work or he never got it). I mean the money is not through paypal so I don’t think ebay can force it out of my bank or anything?


Everything says that this is very wrong but I’m having troubles finding where the scam actually lies. He can’t get any money back from me if he decides to dispute something. He can’t claim that it doesn’t work as the auction stated as-is. He can’t claim that he never got it as it will be signed for by him.

Any suggestions ?

[NintenDk]

Hmm that definitely is pretty kooky sounding. I don't know that there is good advice for this situation really but if you were wondering, yes it does seem odd. Odd indeed.

Or since he and his evil clones are giving you so much grief... This is tough but tell him it was you evil twin that previously replied to the earlier emails and that hes torched the money order (or the goods) so its no good to either of you now and you cannot therefore send the goods. Tell him he must claim his money order reciept in order to get it back (or send it back in scenario b) and that if he bids again on your items you're evil twin will do the same. Oh yeah don't listen to this it was my evil twin.

[jajaja]

If you decide to cash in the money order make sure its 100% real. Even tell them that you have doubts about it. It might look 100% authentic, but make them double check if it really is.

[Mr.Faxanadu]

If you decide to cash in the money order make sure its 100% real. Even tell them that you have doubts about it. It might look 100% authentic, but make them double check if it really is.

Ya, I obviously won't send the package untill the order is 100% cleared.

[Mr.Faxanadu]

Hmm that definitely is pretty kooky sounding. I don't know that there is good advice for this situation really but if you were wondering, yes it does seem odd. Odd indeed.

Or since he and his evil clones are giving you so much grief... This is tough but tell him it was you evil twin that previously replied to the earlier emails and that hes torched the money order (or the goods) so its no good to either of you now and you cannot therefore send the goods. Tell him he must claim his money order reciept in order to get it back (or send it back in scenario b) and that if he bids again on your items you're evil twin will do the same. Oh yeah don't listen to this it was my evil twin.

The guy did bring up a valid point about these guys. If he is behind all these usernames then he was bidding against himself. This is why I was thinking he want's me to send the money order back so he can claim it got lost. The more money he put into the auction the more he can get back!

This problem has opened my eyes to new scam possiblities that I never though of before :roll:

[MichaeltheGreat]

That is weird.

He sent the money order by registered mail. There is proof he paid, but usually no proof of whether or not it was cashed. I suppose it is possible that even if you sent it back that he could claim that you kept his money. If you send back the money order I would send it by registered mail. I would think about sending a tracable payment, but I wouldn't really want to send a check with my account number on it... I would tell him that you can only ship the payment to an address that ebay has on file.

If you send the item, make sure the money order clears. Even if it is just cashed by your bank, make sure it doesn't bounce back before you send anything.

If he really did warn you himself, he either A. is a nut, or B. is trying to lead you in some direction for a reason.

How odd...

[Mr.Faxanadu]

That is weird.

....


If he really did warn you himself, he either A. is a nut, or B. is trying to lead you in some direction for a reason.

How odd...




Exactly! I think he's trying to lead me into sending the money order back in hopes that I don't track it. Even if I do, I think he may still try to pull something. :roll:

[luffy744]

Sorry if this is a dumb reply, as I may be missing something, but...

Can't you just go to the bank and cash the money order (asking them if they can make sure it's legit, etc), then you have the money in hand. Then send the package by Fedex or whatever that has tracking, insurance and requires a signature. Your auction is clear that the machine is as-is, so if it stops working or is damaged in the mail or whatever you are covered, the buyer knew in advance.

Basically, if you have the money, your auction listing covers your butt, and you send the package in a way where he can't claim he never got it, what are you afraid will happen? He'll yell and scream at ebay and they'll suspend your account?

[Mr.Faxanadu]

Sorry if this is a dumb reply, as I may be missing something, but...

Can't you just go to the bank and cash the money order (asking them if they can make sure it's legit, etc), then you have the money in hand. Then send the package by Fedex or whatever that has tracking, insurance and requires a signature. Your auction is clear that the machine is as-is, so if it stops working or is damaged in the mail or whatever you are covered, the buyer knew in advance.

Basically, if you have the money, your auction listing covers your butt, and you send the package in a way where he can't claim he never got it, what are you afraid will happen? He'll yell and scream at ebay and they'll suspend your account?


Correct me if I'm wrong but I've read on this site and others (paypalsucks.com) that even if you send a tracked package and someone else at the residence signs for it (not the buyer) then the buyer can still claim to eBay that he never got it. If this happens ebay will freeze your account and paypal account and demand a refund be issued. This is especially true if the address is not verified

[Mr.Faxanadu]

UPDATE - I got the buyer to acknowledge though ebay that I will not be held responsible if the package is lost in the mail or is damaged/not working. He thinks this is silly to have to state this sort of thing but understands my worry cause of all the slander against him. I’m beginning to think that maybe there are other people out there that mad at him for various reasons and sabotage his ebay trancastions. Sorta like nice_reseals_you_got_there_clown LOL

Anyway, I will be sending out the package after the money order clears. I don’t see how he can pull any scam off now. I will update this post if something crazy happens.

Anyway, this just shows what crazy stuff goes on out there

Thanks for all your advice guys!

[zektor]

Sorry if this is a dumb reply, as I may be missing something, but...

Can't you just go to the bank and cash the money order (asking them if they can make sure it's legit, etc), then you have the money in hand. Then send the package by Fedex or whatever that has tracking, insurance and requires a signature. Your auction is clear that the machine is as-is, so if it stops working or is damaged in the mail or whatever you are covered, the buyer knew in advance.

Basically, if you have the money, your auction listing covers your butt, and you send the package in a way where he can't claim he never got it, what are you afraid will happen? He'll yell and scream at ebay and they'll suspend your account?


Correct me if I'm wrong but I've read on this site and others (paypalsucks.com) that even if you send a tracked package and someone else at the residence signs for it (not the buyer) then the buyer can still claim to eBay that he never got it. If this happens ebay will freeze your account and paypal account and demand a refund be issued. This is especially true if the address is not verified

Actually, that is incorrect. I had a few instances with this in the past (8 year ebay veteran) and this is how it worked each time:

Once I won a TG16 game (Bomberman '93), paid via paypal and never received the game. I filed a dispute of course, and paypal asked the seller for proof that a package was shipped. Now, he could have sent me an empty box (scary I know) and as long as he provided paypal with a valid delivery confirmation number (one going to my address that is) paypal WOULD have sided with him.

But he didn't get any type of delivery confirmation, and paypal sided with me and performed the chargeback.

Another instance happened the other way around. I mailed something and didn't get delivery confirmation. The seller claimed he didn't get it, and if I had that proof I would not have had to refund him the money.

Now, your best bet is this. When someone wins your auction, ONLY accept shipment of the item to the shipping address they have on file with ebay. No exceptions. Then, be SURE to get delivery confirmation when you send the item to that address. If you follow these two simple steps, you'll never have an issue. Oh, and make sure you get paid first!

[ProgrammingAce]

Roses are red;
Violets are blue.
I have multiple personalities,
and so do I.

[eightbitonline]

I just sold an NES to a guy in Canada who paid by money order and also told me to contact him at a different e-mail address. I just checked to make sure it's not the same guy (it's not). Thanks for the heads-up though. Sounds fishy.

[kevin_psx]

“monte 710” (the guy who warned me of the scams) meaning that he warned me about himself ??!!??

So I emailed the winner explaining how I learnt of all this and he replied stating is was all slander etc… He then said it has something to do with pinball machine deals that went bad ...



Ship to the address listed on his Ebay account w/ tracking. If you do that Ebay will protect you even if he falsely claims the item was not received.

And file a "invalid contact information" & "shill bidding" disputes on ALL those names saying they appear to be the same guy using multiple handles / shill bidding / invalid email accounts & phone numbers.

Ebay will sort it out & ban the falsies.

.

[kevin_psx]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've read on this site and others (paypalsucks.com) that even if you send a tracked package and someone else at the residence signs for it (not the buyer) then the buyer can still claim to eBay that he never got it.

No. If tracking or delivery confirmation shows the package was delivered you are in the clear.

[Griking]

Ship to the address listed on his Ebay account w/ tracking. If you do that Ebay will protect you even if he falsely claims the item was not received..

You really don't have to worry about a chargeback or anything from eBay if he's paying via money order. The only concern I'd have is whether the money order was good or not.

[kevin_psx]

No. Ebay can't take cash out of your wallet.

Still worthwhile to file "incorrect contact" and "shill bidding" complaints against all those IDs. Some are fake & Ebay will ban those that are.

[Mr.Faxanadu]

“monte 710” (the guy who warned me of the scams) meaning that he warned me about himself ??!!??

So I emailed the winner explaining how I learnt of all this and he replied stating is was all slander etc… He then said it has something to do with pinball machine deals that went bad ...



Ship to the address listed on his Ebay account w/ tracking. If you do that Ebay will protect you even if he falsely claims the item was not received.

And file a "invalid contact information" & "shill bidding" disputes on ALL those names saying they appear to be the same guy using multiple handles / shill bidding / invalid email accounts & phone numbers.

Ebay will sort it out & ban the falsies.

.


This mark guy who won the thing was telling me that all those other people who claimed to be "mark" and who used his contact info are jelous collectors who are out to slander him. This could be possible :/

I cashed the order a couple of days ago and am waiting for it to clear. So far so good. I think I'm in the clear now :)

[Stark]

pin_doc is no longer a registered user so I'd still be careful in dealing with this guy.

[kevin_psx]

Classicchevy57 Said name was Mark Postal Code L9H2H2
revox_docx Name – Mark Ph# - 1-XXX-XXX-5003
pin_doc Name - Mark L9H2H2 - 1-XXX-XXX-5003
I then get from one of the bidders “monte_710” telling me that the winner “pin doc” is a well known scam artist........ I then read in one of the MANY fraud warnings that one of his ebay accounts is “monte 710” meaning that he warned me about himself ??!!??
A quick scan of Ebay shows 3 of 4 of these accounts are SUSPENDED. You could likely keep the Money & not ship the item 'cause your Buyer is under investigation by Ebay for possible fraud. ---> Your sale is effectively null & void. If pin_doc's account is later reactivated by Ebay-- you can mail the item then.

[EDIT - If I was you. I'd take the money from this Scammer's MoneyOrder & after enough time has passed --say January 2007-- give it to the various people who were scammed. Like canucks0, tubes4me, etcetera. An indirect refund from Mark Uttley to his Victims.]



IF ANYONE FEELS STRONG AND WANTS TO START HARASSMENT OR TROUBLE AT MY RESIDENCE THEN COME ON DOWN, I WILL DEFEND MY HOME AND FAMILY ANY WAY I SEE FIT.
He sounds like the Canadian version of a redneck!

LOL

[lurpak]

Im glad not everybody is suspicous...

Im moving house this friday, yesterday I won a couple of items on ebay.

clicked to change address to the new place as I figured by the time they post I will be there anyway.

but paypal came up with an error everytime I went to change address, so I put a not with the payment asking them to ship to my new address after friday.
because if they ship now, the current owners of the new house might get it, and if they ship late...I wont be able to get it here.


sometimes moving is genuine.

[yok-dfa]

A quick scan of Ebay shows 3 of 4 of these accounts are SUSPENDED. You could likely keep the Money & not ship the item 'cause your Buyer is under investigation by Ebay for possible fraud. ---> Your sale is effectively null & void.

That would be the dumbest thing to do. Having a sale voided does not mean you can keep the money and get away with it x_x

[kevin_psx]

A quick scan of Ebay shows 3 of 4 of these accounts are SUSPENDED. ---> Your sale is effectively null & void. That would be the dumbest thing to do. Having a sale voided does not mean you can keep the money and get away with it x_x
Mark Uttley has been ARRESTED and served jail time in Canada. What can he do? Nothing. Ebay's banned him. Paypal's banned him. The Canadian police think he's a Convicted Criminal/Liar. What can he do? Nothing.

---->I would give the $300 to canucks0, tubes4me, and his other victims who were de-frauded/money stolen. An indirect refund from Mark Scammer--->to Faxanadu--->to Mark's defrauded customers.



sometimes moving is genuine. Yeah but you weren't SUSPENDED by ebay were you? Or had blacklists created about your Name, have you? (deep breath) Calms down. ---> I grow tired of posters who think CROOKS should be treated as though they were honest. These scammers stole money from innocent ebayers. Why show them respect? They've not earned it. They should be treated like the Dogs they are.

If that means taking Mark Shill Bidder/Scammer's $300 & refunding it to his victims-- so be it. It's justice. It's returning stolen money to the people who were robbed.

[Mr.Faxanadu]

WTF ? :eek 2: Well, I've cashed the money order. THe bank says it will take 5 days to clear. I was going to email him explaining this and I saw he has been NARUed!!!

Now what ???? I don't like the idea of just ditching out on the deal and keeping the money because I'm afraid he'll come over to my house and beat me with a shovel :beaten:

The first thought that comes to my mind is to talk to eBay help and see what they suggest. Next, I was thinking of just shipping the damn thing! I mean, I have the money (I know it's a real money order!) Besides, I got the thing for $10 at a garage sale! All this extra crap is really not worth it.

Suggestions ?

[yok-dfa]

Mark Uttley has been ARRESTED and served jail time in Canada. What can he do? Nothing. Ebay's banned him. Paypal's banned him. The Canadian police think he's a Convicted Criminal/Liar. What can he do? Nothing.
Even convicted criminals have rights. If you keep his payment without sending the goods he paid for you are commiting fraud and you could face charges. Plain and simple.

[kevin_psx]

---->after enough time has passed --say January 2007-- I would give the $300 to canucks0, tubes4me, and his other victims who were de-frauded/money stolen. An indirect refund from Mark Scammer--->to Faxanadu--->to Mark's defrauded customers.

It's justice. It's returning stolen money to the people who were robbed. Even convicted criminals have rights. If you keep his payment without sending the goods he paid you could face charges.

-shrug- IF that happens return the money. Doubt it would. A Convicted Criminal / suspended ebay buyer would Not want to attract police attention to his Criminal activities via filing a claim.


Only way I'd return the $300 [which Mark stole from other victims]
-- The police call & ask for it back.

Else
-- I'd keep it 'til January 2007 (until I'm sure I'm clear) & then distribute the cash to Mark Criminal's defrauded victims

Maybe if more people stood up against criminals --instead of just sitting back & watching them rob purses or stores or people-- this world would be a better place.

[yok-dfa]

Maybe if more people stood up against criminals --instead of just sitting back & watching them rob purses or stores or people-- this world would be a better place.
Let me get this straight. Some guy steals from other people. According to you that makes it ok for you to steal from him. Since you now are stealing too, i guess it makes it ok for other people to steal from you. x_x

I'm all in favor for standing up against criminals, but this is *not* the way to go. (remember: an eye for an eye makes the entire world go blind)

[Mr.Faxanadu]

Errr..... sorry to interupt but do you guys think I should still send it to him ? I figure if eBay hasn't contacted me to stop the transaction then why not.

[kevin_psx]

Maybe if more people stood up against criminals --instead of just sitting back & watching them rob purses or stores or people-- this world would be a better place.Some guy steals from other people. According to you that makes it ok for you to steal from him.

I'm not. I'm returning the Stolen/Dirty Money to the people he defrauded. It's their money; I'm just returning it to the proper owners.

No different than jumping on a Thief & pulling money from his pockets & returning it to the lady he just stole from.



EDIT - Faxanadu's buyer is a scammer. He's stolen THOUSANDS of dollars from his customers. He's served jail time. He's banned by Canadian Courts from internet sales/auctions. He's used over 20 fake IDs, 4 of which he used to artificially inflate Faxanadu's ebay auction for some convoluted Scam.

Do ya really think he's going to go to the police about a money order??? No more likely than HBO's Mr. Soprano going to the police saying his wallet was stolen.

Thieves don't want the police nosing around
.

[tescosamoa]

Hi Tescosamoa here.

I am a moderator at the CAM website.

We have had problems with Mr. M.U.

He is not allowed to sell on the internet. So we constantly have to watch out for his adds and since he says trade or drop by and take a look we have to ban his adds. On average he is creating about 4 to 6 accounts aweek with the same adds.

We go in ban the adds and then ban the ip's and emails and associated proxy ips.

Real Pain.

Plus every few weeks he gets into our forums and slanders everyone in site. Which causes about 30 minutes of deleting posts and cleaning out threads.



For your current situation.

I would recommend the following.

1) Inform EBay everthing upfront about what you think and the actions you have done. I would include all emails. Documentation on the money order etc....
Once the order clears and you have the money I would then send the merchandise / registered with a required signature. Send it to a Canada Post outlet closest to his address and get them to send a delivery notice there. He will have to come in and sign for the package. Stephen Anderson is his name I believe. Track this completely with canada post

Report all this info to ebay as well.

And then take all this info and foward it to the bank that issued the money order. Just incase it is fraud...

If the money order is not legit. Then forward everything to ebay and the Hamilton Police dept.

Just be careful.

And any questions kevin_psx has an account at cam now so pm him and he can pm me.

Take Care.

Tesco

[Mr.Faxanadu]

Errr..... now the CAM moderator's involved ?!?! I O_O

Well thanks :) ... what you mentioned is exactly what I plan to do. Like I've been saying - I find it hard to find where the scam actually lies! He paid... payment clears... so I'm sending the item [case closed]

All this other stuff is just making me REALLY suspicious!

[Mr.Faxanadu]

UPDATE – Buyer received the package and was quite happy with it. He couldn’t leave me feedback as he is NARUed so he replied to my email with glowing remarks about my packaging. The money order cashed fine so I have the money and he has the item. No complaints at all!

I guess you never know what to excpect with eBay buyers. Many people suggested I shouldn’t sell to the guy but everthing turned out fine :)

Thanks for all you help!