Why the faith in the Revolution?

[whoisKeel]

I see alot of posts on this board that have very high hopes for Nintendo's Revolution, but at the same time those same people condemn the N64 and/or Gamecube (mainly Gamecube).

Without starting a console war (yeah right), what makes people think that the Revolution is Nintendo's comeback? Why would developer's suddenly jump on the Revolution when the have (mostly) abandoned Nintendo in the last few years?

I'd love to see Nintendo "back on top" just as much as the next guy, I'm just curious. Maybe there's some specs or screenshots or something I just haven't seen.

[JPeeples]

Why would developers jump on the Revolution bandwagon compared to the GC? Well, unlike the GC's pad, the Revolution's one actually allows them to do new things that can't be done on the other systems.

[NE146]

I dont know anything about faith for it.. I just want it because it's the next Nintendo console :) Whether it fails or succeeds or whatever is not really relevant to me..

[njiska]

The Revolution is certainly innovative and has a lot of potential and Nintendo appears to be going ahead with a plan that will make the Rev cheap and because it's cheap it's going to be a second system for a lot of people.

It's not that i have faith in nintendo, but rather i see what they're trying to do and i hope that they can pull it off.

Good idea + Low cost + Good games = Great investment.

If they can show us those three thing at E3 then they're set.

[Lozza]

I'm not sure if many here know or have heard, but the Revolution is apparently roughly the size of a stack of 3 dvd cases. That dock is going to look seriously cool. :eek 2:

The i-pod of consoles.

I would like Nintendo to release a game called "Smash up" or something, where I get to swing my controller like a lead pipe/bat, and smash the fuck out of all kinds of things as fast as I can. Like 360's... Bill Gates... XBOX kids or anything that generally annoys me.

That would be such a good game. :eek 2:

[InsaneDavid]

Well from what I've seen, on the consumer end, it's everone going "OMG I can play all the old games, woot, ROXOR!" Then again this is the same slice of consumers that wouldn't pay for StarROMs, Gametap, won't buy compilations like Midway Arcade Treasures because "those games are already supported by MAME" and so on.


Why would developers jump on the Revolution bandwagon compared to the GC? Well, unlike the GC's pad, the Revolution's one actually allows them to do new things that can't be done on the other systems.

Like get lost between the sofa cushions and make even fewer third party developers want to make cross platform games. Seriously, since the days of the N64 it's been like pulling teeth to get third party developers to make consistantly great games on Nintendo hardware due to controller limitations. The first party stuff will probably be a lot of fun and of quality, don't get me wrong, but as is all too apparent with the GameCube (I do love my GC since launch) not having solid third party support isn't the way to run a railroad.

That said, Nintendo never wanted to admit that the GameCube was a second system for everyone - but I think they'd sell more consoles that way. Heck, after "PS2 or XBox" most people went for a GameCube instead of the other "PS2 or XBox." With Nintendo going a totally other direction with the Revolution they're basically ponying up to the second / alternative console banner and I think it'll be a much more successful cycle for them promoting that out of the gate.

The only concern I had, which I mentioned a long time ago in another thread, is it seems cool to use the controller as a sword or something similar - but wave your arm around in the air... not too satisfying is it? That's because there's no resistance. You slashed a guy in half, your bat made contact with the ball, a fish grabbed on the line... and the controller shakes a little. For years home steering wheels sucked until a few years ago when we got cheap affordable force feedback (the GT Force wheel on the PS2 lead the way) and responsiveness. Lots of people and journalists are banking the Revolution experence on some psudeo VR control method but it's just not going to be that in the traditional sense in my eyes. Now for innovative new game genres and for shooting (like the version of Metroid Prime they had hacked up) and things like that, it's going to be a blast - or at least it should be. Lightgun games are one of my favorite genres and if anything the Revolution should help keep them alive. Maybe also get over the lightgun hurdles with modern TV's?

Then again, it's still nearly a year off, a lot can happen and a lot isn't really known.

[Beavertown]

I'm skeptical of the controller because a lot of the things they are talking about doing with it would be fun for about 5 mins. After the novelty of it wears off, I don't think it's going to be all that great. I also have concerns that developers are going to overly complicate things just to make use of it, like they do with the touchscreen on the DS. 9 times out of 10, I would just rather press a damn button or use the d-pad instead of fumbling with the damn touchpad and stylus. But, that's just me.

I also don't think the controller is going to save shitty games. If a game is shoddy and generic, the control method isn't going to matter.

As for the hardware. It's known that it's not going to be near as powerful as the other consoles. So while FPS games and other games might control better on the REV, I'm not sure people will want to give up the high graphic, AI and next gen physics of the PC, X360 and PS3, just to play them with the wonder-wand.

In the end I think the REV is going to be like most of Nintendo's other consoles and have strong 1st and 2nd party support and fall short with quality 3rd party games. I'm personally not a big fan of Nintendo games, so that's why I'm still on the fence about the REV.

[Joker T]

I'm not sure what to think yet, its not like we have seen much.

[Cmtz]

I see alot of posts on this board that have very high hopes for Nintendo's Revolution, but at the same time those same people condemn the N64 and/or Gamecube (mainly Gamecube).

Without starting a console war (yeah right), what makes people think that the Revolution is Nintendo's comeback? Why would developer's suddenly jump on the Revolution when the have (mostly) abandoned Nintendo in the last few years?

I'd love to see Nintendo "back on top" just as much as the next guy, I'm just curious. Maybe there's some specs or screenshots or something I just haven't seen.

Because this will finally be possible.

http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0795/wiz-pg.wmv

[devilman]

For me, it was a case of seeing the 360, PS3 & Revolution equally at first until I'd heard more about each machine. However, it's looking that the 360 & PS3 are delivering more of the same, just with added grunt. So it's more with hope that I'm looking forward to the Revolution to do something different. If it doesn't, I can see me getting none of the three machines for several years to come.

[BHvrd]

I don't see Nintendo as having a "comeback", imo they never went anywhere and have no real reason to prove anything to anyone imo.

Nintendo being looked at negative over the past few years is imo the opinions of gamers who obviously bought into hype of new types of gaming and learning that Nintendo is still one of the only companies that delivers on a constant basis.

I don't think it's Nintendo that has made the comeback as much as it is the fans.

Over time people learn and realize constant quality and loyallty and Nintendo has delivered on that promise more than any other company over the years. The only negative I can see is that Nintendo fans want "more" and Nintendo doesn't always deliver, but you can never say what they deliver is of poor quality.

The Nintendo fan base got and is spoiled "understandably", and now they seem very thankful that Nintendo is still around "myself included", they are still one of the few companies offering innovation outside of just "better graphics".

Nintendo is and always will be in a class all it's own, some people are just learning that, and some have always known it, the "Revolution" is just coincedental, it's Nintendo's time in the spotlight again, and I for one hope they blow the doors off the industry like only they could.

People are tired of cookie-cutter sequels and slightly updated visuals. In this generation people want innovation, and Nintendo delivers more originality than anyone out there.

Sure that "one game" might come along and wow you, but remember Nintendo is the one company that is always pushing to make things innovative, though sometimes that concept is ill conceived.

I think people finally realize they have knocked Nintendo for the one thing they have loved them for over the years, and it's time Nintendo gets some love. They deserve it.

Viva le Revolution.

[incubus421]

I think Nintendo is great. They always have been and I believe they always will be. As long as they have symbols like Mario, Link, and Sonic as of late they will continue to sell, sell, sell.
Yes the Xbox and Ps2 have taken most of the spotlight, and Nintendo has been somewhat of a Dark Horse since then. But, Nintendo always seem to pull through and get the good things out that people want to buy.
And I expect no less of the Revolution.

[jdchess]

I don't see Nintendo as having a "comeback", imo they never went anywhere and have no real reason to prove anything to anyone imo.

Nintendo being looked at negative over the past few years is imo the opinions of gamers who obviously bought into hype of new types of gaming and learning that Nintendo is still one of the only companies that delivers on a constant basis.

I don't think it's Nintendo that has made the comeback as much as it is the fans.

Over time people learn and realize constant quality and loyallty and Nintendo has delivered on that promise more than any other company over the years. The only negative I can see is that Nintendo fans want "more" and Nintendo doesn't always deliver, but you can never say what they deliver is of poor quality.

The Nintendo fan base got and is spoiled "understandably", and now they seem very thankful that Nintendo is still around "myself included", they are still one of the few companies offering innovation outside of just "better graphics".

Nintendo is and always will be in a class all it's own, some people are just learning that, and some have always known it, the "Revolution" is just coincedental, it's Nintendo's time in the spotlight again, and I for one hope they blow the doors off the industry like only they could.

People are tired of cookie-cutter sequels and slightly updated visuals. In this generation people want innovation, and Nintendo delivers more originality than anyone out there.

Sure that "one game" might come along and wow you, but remember Nintendo is the one company that is always pushing to make things innovative, though sometimes that concept is ill conceived.

I think people finally realize they have knocked Nintendo for the one thing they have loved them for over the years, and it's time Nintendo gets some love. They deserve it.

Viva le Revolution.

I was going to say something, but after reading this, I realized that it had already been said... :)

[nik]

For me... I enjoyed the gamecube far more then I did my original XboX, and I owned the xbox for 2 years almost..

Most fun I had on it was Halo 2.... and thats all I really remember being fun

Gamecube, I had more fun with it playing mario strikers, mario kart, about 4 others then I have in a very long time.

I'm excited for the next one because I can now play the classics I want to any time instead of having them locked away and dragging them out.

I'm also a little excited to see the price point, no idea why, but buying a console at launch always seems like a gamble, but nintendo first party games are never a gamble... they give me faith in that system that no matter what comes out, mario kart, metroid, etc will be there.

[swlovinist]

Nintendo always delivers for its own console, I dont care if it catches on or not, although it would be nice for them to sell to the masses once again. I have faith in Nintendo because I feel they have a clear vision on what makes a game fun. The DS was a laughing stock until great games were being made for it. Nintendo can still make games better than any other company, and I believe that they know the pressure of their new console doing well. The Gamecube had some great games on it that cannot be played anywhere else. That is the great thing about Nintendo consoles. Even if the system tanks, I know that A)They will support it. B)There will be exclusive Mario, Zelda, and Metroid games that will be fun to play. By default by price(we will see after E3) I do believe that this is the next gen system I can afford.

[djbeatmongrel]

i'm excited about the revolution becuase nintendo proved many nay sayers (my self included) wrong with the DS once a lot of the first AND third party games started coming out. i think the fact that nintendo is coming out with a console different from the other next gen consoles out and in the works sparks my interest more.

also it seems like numerous devs are excitied about developing games for the revolution so it seems like the third party support is going to be there. i think nintendo has a lot of pluses on its side at this point.

no i have never been a nintendo fan boy but i have been impressed with nintendo since the release of the gamecube and the ds.

[Push Upstairs]

Well, i've not really been very happy with Nintendo since the SNES.

They have got everyone beat as far as quality in thier products , but i believe thier standards have declined since the 16-bit era.

There used to be a new Mario game with any system launch and really we've had two *NEW* Mario games on the various systems Nintendo has made since the SNES. Mario shoved into various other types of games and more of the same Mario Party game...so on.

My hopes aren't very high for the REV because i feel Nintendo is going to deliever more of what they currently do, except now they will have some whizz-bang-WOW controller that i feel will not be as great as everyone is making it out to be.


Call me a hater, call me a cynic, just don't call me Stacy.

[NintenDk]

Why would developers jump on the Revolution bandwagon compared to the GC? Well, unlike the GC's pad, the Revolution's one actually allows them to do new things that can't be done on the other systems.

?

?...



???...................

Because the development platform of GC and REV are so almost completely alike. No learning a complete new system of development. Along with what he said thats like having your cake and eating it too I gather.

[NE146]

I'm skeptical of the controller because a lot of the things they are talking about doing with it would be fun for about 5 mins. After the novelty of it wears off, I don't think it's going to be all that great.

If I recall correctly, there is capability to use a regular GC controller.

But then again this is the same argument we heard about the DS! i.e. "The touchpad will be fun for 5 minutes. until the novelty wears off". And look at today.. lots of games great dont even use it, and lots of great games do. I think it'll be fine.

[Snapple]

It's impossible to say the Revolution is going to be good until you see the games. Games make or break a system, we all know that. And so far, there hasn't been any game footage, so I'm going to keep my lip shut.

I thought the PSP would be great. It's the most powerful handheld ever. But the games suck. That's why I have a DS now. You can't pass judgment until you see some games.

[kainemaxwell]

For me it seems like Nintendo is bucking the high multimedia trend that the PS2 and 360 is trying to pull and bring out just what they want, a gaming system, not something that does 30 different other things besides play games. Not to mention they're acknowleging their fans from way back as 1985 with their ideas for the Revolution.

[Bronty-2]

Why would developers jump on the Revolution bandwagon compared to the GC? Well, unlike the GC's pad, the Revolution's one actually allows them to do new things that can't be done on the other systems.

?

?...



???...................

Because the development platform of GC and REV are so almost completely alike. No learning a complete new system of development. Along with what he said thats like having your cake and eating it too I gather.

exactly... much cheaper development costs

[jdc]

I enjoyed the N64.....but that stems largely from the fact that it was my first system and the only one that I owned for quite some time.

The Cube? It charged out of the gate.....but then the developers seemed to forget about it. I tried SO damned hard to not bail on it.

The Nintendo DS. NOW we're talking. What makes this machine so awesome IS in the innovative ways that it brings gaming to the table. So in that same light......

.....the Revolution? IF we see the same innovation coupled with a decent retail price and the all important developer support...then maybe, just maybe we might have something worth owning. It might be silly....it might be awesome. All of a sudden I'm not so sure that I want to dismiss it outright. Just because it isn't "normal" doesn't mean that it's bad. The DS proved that to me.

[Ernster]

Although I love Nintendo more than most things in life, I just dont have much faith in them anymore. Ill just make some points:

- Nintendo's game quality has declined a lot since the GC

- Launching a purple console was damm stupid

- I see Rev is going to support DVD movies, if Nintendo weren't so stupid they would of realised that it might of been a good idea hmm about 5 years ago on the GC!

- The controller seems cool and all but it does seem
gimmicky at the same time, and I cant see how you can play a full fledged game for hours on the thing. Of couse I need to use it before making uo my mind.

- I dont like the idea of the shell, especially if its going to be based on the wavebird. The WB is too big with a crap button layout (same with GC controller), please dont use it Nintendo!

- How about Nintendo lying promising us Mario 128 at E3 05 and than a few weeks later saying they lied and they are still experimenting and that they may make another sunshine. WAKE UP Nintendo, 99% of ppl will agree sunshine was the worst main Mario game ever, dont torture us again.


I dont know what the point of me saying all this is, I just wish someone at Nintendo would get their ass into gear and do things properly for a change.

[Crazycarl]

Although I love Nintendo more than most things in life, I just dont have much faith in them anymore. Ill just make some points:

- Nintendo's game quality has declined a lot since the GC

- Launching a purple console was damm stupid

- I see Rev is going to support DVD movies, if Nintendo weren't so stupid they would of realised that it might of been a good idea hmm about 5 years ago on the GC!

- The controller seems cool and all but it does seem
gimmicky at the same time, and I cant see how you can play a full fledged game for hours on the thing. Of couse I need to use it before making uo my mind.

- I dont like the idea of the shell, especially if its going to be based on the wavebird. The WB is too big with a crap button layout (same with GC controller), please dont use it Nintendo!

- How about Nintendo lying promising us Mario 128 at E3 05 and than a few weeks later saying they lied and they are still experimenting and that they may make another sunshine. WAKE UP Nintendo, 99% of ppl will agree sunshine was the worst main Mario game ever, dont torture us again.


I dont know what the point of me saying all this is, I just wish someone at Nintendo would get their ass into gear and do things properly for a change.

1. Game quality havn't gotten worse, Metriod games rock, Donkey Konga games were great. There main problem is that they are really picky about what came out on their system, they didn't want to overflood their system w/ shit loads of crap titles like PS2.

2. I'm looking at mine and it silver, and I got it when they first came out, No one told everybody they had to specificly buy the purple one.

3. Nintendo wanted a pure gaming machine, not the everything box Sony and Microsoft wants. Also the dvd is more for disc space then it is for movies.

4. the controller will have clip on that arn't even fully designed. also you can use the GC controllers, also it to promote game designer and developers to create custom controllers for Rev games so each game will feel differently. And it's to also make it so the add ons will have cheeper production cost, hense making them to cost.

5. I doubt it will be identicel to the wavebird, also you saw a very early production style so it could of changed atleast 10 times by now.

6. I think your percentages are scewed since everybody I know loved that game, and in fact if they would of did the same thing in the past games then people would of been upset. So if they make another I can't see a damn thing wrong with that. I doubt it they would make another mario sunshine unless it would be called mario sunshine 2. No with the title 128 marios' it's ganna be something diff. just give it time and be patient.

[njiska]

6. I think your percentages are scewed since everybody I know loved that game, and in fact if they would of did the same thing in the past games then people would of been upset. So if they make another I can't see a damn thing wrong with that. I doubt it they would make another mario sunshine unless it would be called mario sunshine 2. No with the title 128 marios' it's ganna be something diff. just give it time and be patient.

Actually it is a fair assumption to say a large precentage of gamers were, at the least, very disappointed with Super Mario Sunshine. I personally was pissed off because for me it was just one step further away from everything that had made the Super Mario Series fun in the first place.

But i strongly doubt Super Mario 128 is going to be another Sunshine. With any luck it'll be like SM64 or even more like the classic Mario.

[sabre2922]

I wrote in another thread:

Revolution: Now this is the true NEXT GENERATION system IMO offering more than slightly upgraded graphics for all the graphic whores out there and true Next-Gen gameplay wich could very well take both Sony and Microsoft by suprise if Nintendo is able to satisfy both their hardcore fanbase-many of wich reside here on this forum- AND bring in a whole new broader range of gamers and customers.
3rd party support: this seems to be yet another "its a secret to everyone" kinda thing with the big N meaning that their are a few top tier developers very interested in the Revo like Konami (Kojima) and a few others but not suprisingly there are more 3rd party publishers/developers that have remained completely silent on the Revo up to this point.

BUT there is one big negative for the REVO - the games so far their have been pitifully few REAL games announced for the Revo besides Nintendos main series and a few others meaning that it would be a miracle if the REVOLUTION launched THIS YEAR with more than maybe 4-8 games at launch.

I thought the Gamecube was a great system but the GC is a prime example of how shallow society is as a whole when eveyone "judges a book by its cover" and comes to quick conclusions about a system-or just about anything else for that matter- just because of the way it looks and the Rep that Nintendo has with the uneducated masses that Nintendo is for kids only or some shit like that.

I think many gamers have hope that the Revolution will change many of these misconceptions and reach a new untapped revenue with different age groups etc. that Nintendo is targeting with the Revolution.

The fact is that IF the Revo is not a success or "doesnt sell more than Gamecube"-as Nintendo has stated - the Revo could very well be Nintendos last homeconsole.

[Push Upstairs]

I thought the Gamecube was a great system but the GC is a prime example of how shallow society is as a whole when eveyone "judges a book by its cover" and comes to quick conclusions about a system-or just about anything else for that matter- just because of the way it looks and the Rep that Nintendo has with the uneducated masses that Nintendo is for kids only or some shit like that.

This is really nobody's fault but Nintendo's.

It's easy for one of us to say otherwise because we know better, but for those who don't get into this hobby quite as much as we do...how will they know if Nintendo does nothing about thier percieved image?

Nintendo failed to do anything on thier part to make themselves out as anything but a "kiddie system" to the masses. That is Nintendo's fault, not the masses.

[sabre2922]

I thought the Gamecube was a great system but the GC is a prime example of how shallow society is as a whole when eveyone "judges a book by its cover" and comes to quick conclusions about a system-or just about anything else for that matter- just because of the way it looks and the Rep that Nintendo has with the uneducated masses that Nintendo is for kids only or some shit like that.

This is really nobody's fault but Nintendo's.

It's easy for one of us to say otherwise because we know better, but for those who don't get into this hobby quite as much as we do...how will they know if Nintendo does nothing about thier percieved image?

Nintendo failed to do anything on thier part to make themselves out as anything but a "kiddie system" to the masses. That is Nintendo's fault, not the masses.

I can agree with that.
Mostly do to the fact that Nintendo made no effort to get more mature multiport games on the Gamecube -from PS2 to Xbox- like Silent Hill 2/4, the GTAs etc. I mean everyone on these boards rants at how much COLD CASH NINTENDO HAS in the bank they could have easily paid developers/publishers like Rockstar or even Konami to bring over a few more "mature" titles to the Gamecube when it still had a fighting chance I mean they had what? Resident Evil a decent Metal Gear Solid remake ,Eternal Darkness and a few others? thats simply not enough to buck the "kiddy" rep that Nintendos has had since the days of the N64 but that is for another thread altogether.

[poloplayr]

I see alot of posts on this board that have very high hopes for Nintendo's Revolution, but at the same time those same people condemn the N64 and/or Gamecube (mainly Gamecube).

Without starting a console war (yeah right), what makes people think that the Revolution is Nintendo's comeback? Why would developer's suddenly jump on the Revolution when the have (mostly) abandoned Nintendo in the last few years?

I'd love to see Nintendo "back on top" just as much as the next guy, I'm just curious. Maybe there's some specs or screenshots or something I just haven't seen.

All of the answers to your questions are terribly obvious.

[Ulticron]

Well the console is going to be cheap, and have the ultimate all time backwards compatability record. The dev kits from what I've heard are also cheap too, plus the system is easy to program for. So that could result in not only good 3rd party support but a massive homebrew following.

I never condemned the Cube, it's a good system. However I never took much interest in the N64. That was the turning point for me. That's when a hardcore Nintendo fan said "see ya bye!" and turned into a hardcore Sega fan. Nintendo had some serious issues in the mid/late 90's they were arrogant to no end and they really didn't do a good job taking care of their fans, but fortunately for them and for us they learned from their mistake an they look to be back on track.

It's not faith in Nintendo, it's just seeing the possiblity w/the Revolution. There's so much potential in that console that I don't think any one person can honestly imagine it all.

[DarkStraw]

For starters i never was crazy about the n64 or gamecube, only games i like on them are the first party, i think the revolution is gonna kick the pants off the competiton.

Everything i consider bad about the GC and n64 is a revolution strong point

1.controller
2.look
3.third party support

The revolution controller is going to be quite small and handy, it looks dam good, and its not complicated, anyone can pick it up.

Lets face it, gc and n64 lost alot of buyers just because the console's looked kiddie, the revolution is gonna look really sleek.

the n64 and gc.... there was no reason to go to these consoles over the competetion, the gc was just the same thing as a ps2 except less powerfull whats the point in even making a console if its no differnt? either way the revoltuion is going to be easy to make games for, cheap to make games for and thats quite the oppisite when your talking about the competition.


The revolution is pretty much just the DS in home console form, the DS did great.


while sony and microsoft are fighting tooth and nail for the same old marketshare, and risking a ton by losing money on each console sold, nintendo is making money with their innovation and a new market share, it gives nintendo a lot more potential to make money than microsoft and sony.

The revoltion is gonna be easy to make, it wont be bleeding edge of techology so i dont see it having any issues with overheating etc etc

Lets face it
1.cheap enough for anyone to buy
2.Looks sleek
3.Definitly better gameplay
4.Aimed at mass market, unlike the expensive ps3/xbox360
5.Nintendo still has alot they havent revealed about the rev, what we know is just the tip of the iceberg.
6.Easy to program for, any small company can make a revolution game, i dont know if the same can be said for the xbox360/ps3 it looks to me like only big comanys with lots of cash will be making 360/ps3 games


The MAIN reason i hear that people think the rev is gonna fail is because the gc failed, what the fuck kind of reason is that? people think that just because sony did good 2 times in a row that its gonna win this time around too, im sorry to break it to you but you need to wake up, sony wont be the market leader forever, eventually sony is gonna get left in the dust if they keep releasing the same controller and just have better graphics, as for online play, the revolution will have that too so nah.


Hardcore gamers will all flock to the 360/ps3, but that wont make them sucessfull, Revolution will win the mass market, very easliy in japan, it seems in america we arent as eager to gobble up innovation and fun gameplay as japan, americans would rather have a more powerfull handheld that does a bunch of crap you can do with your ipod than have a great handheld gaming device, but it will still win over america, it will just take longer.

I think the ps3 is gonna get released late in the game, be too expensive and will be too complicated to make games for, it might have some games at launch but i dont think it will last long, the 360 and revoltion will fight it out for mass market with the revoltion eventually winning.

And of course while sony/microsoft are taking huge losses on each console, nintendo will be making a profit. If sony loses this round its going to hit them hard. Sony cant wont make a profit if their console dosent take the number one spot, just like the 360, they take too much of a loss on each console to make money unless they get the number one spot.

[Push Upstairs]

The MAIN reason i hear that people think the rev is gonna fail is because the gc failed, what the fuck kind of reason is that? people think that just because sony did good 2 times in a row that its gonna win this time around too, im sorry to break it to you but you need to wake up, sony wont be the market leader forever, eventually sony is gonna get left in the dust if they keep releasing the same controller and just have better graphics, as for online play, the revolution will have that too so nah.

Well i agree that Sony won't be on top forever, history in the Video Game world has shown that once you get overly arrogant you get knocked down.

I don't think the Rev will fail so much as it probably won't be as big of a seller as everyone is claiming (hoping?) it will be.

Nintendo has to address ths issue that thier previous two home systems aren't viewed in the greatest of light (spare me the "unwashed masses" gripe...this applies to both hardcore and non).

They are going to have to get some GOOD third party support for this system. You cannot sit around making Mario Party 87 and expecting the masses to buy your system en masse. You also cannot expect having all your classic games on your system being the biggest selling point either. Old games are nice, but eventually people want to play something NEW.

And i'm not trying to shit on N, but even if they do everything they can *RIGHT* there is still no 100% chance that things are going to work out for them. Sega did everything right with the Dreamcast and it still went down.

Should Nintendo get on top again they best not act like they did in the late 80's.

[Snapple]

Actually it is a fair assumption to say a large precentage of gamers were, at the least, very disappointed with Super Mario Sunshine. I personally was pissed off because for me it was just one step further away from everything that had made the Super Mario Series fun in the first place.

But i strongly doubt Super Mario 128 is going to be another Sunshine. With any luck it'll be like SM64 or even more like the classic Mario.

That's not my perception at all. Most of the people I know who've played Mario Sunshine loved it. I loved it, too.

There's not going to be a Mario Sunshine 2 though. The whole reason they added the waterpack in the first place was to give people something different. Otherwise, Sunshine would've looked like a Mario 64 clone with better graphics. If they just recycled the water gimmick, that wouldn't be giving gamers something different anymore. So in a sense, it goes against the spirit of Sunshine to have a second one, I think. Besides, the theme of the Revolution so far seems to be "different."

[Cmtz]

the gc was just the same thing as a ps2 except less powerfull


Who was less powerful?

[Cmtz]

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/iwatabomb.gif

[Mr.FoodMonster]

Whoever was talking about how there would only be a few games at launch needs to concider this. There aren't going to be a lot of games for the Rev. With such a strange concept behind it, there just isnt going to be near as many games for the 360 and PS3. But, this may not be a bad thing. Imagine if every game that came out on the Rev (or, hell, any console) were all GOOD. Not you liked them all, because that is impossible, but if every single game was a good fun game that didn't suck. No more Sports games, for the most part, besides a hockey or golf game that could kick ass. No more lame movie games out on every console that is the same thing. It takes down the number of releases greatly, but is that a bad thing?

[Snapple]

Whoever was talking about how there would only be a few games at launch needs to concider this. There aren't going to be a lot of games for the Rev. With such a strange concept behind it, there just isnt going to be near as many games for the 360 and PS3. But, this may not be a bad thing. Imagine if every game that came out on the Rev (or, hell, any console) were all GOOD. Not you liked them all, because that is impossible, but if every single game was a good fun game that didn't suck. No more Sports games, for the most part, besides a hockey or golf game that could kick ass. No more lame movie games out on every console that is the same thing. It takes down the number of releases greatly, but is that a bad thing?

Look at the Nintendo 64 and ask if fewer releases means a better console.

[whoisKeel]

Because this will finally be possible.

http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0795/wiz-pg.wmv

LOL I haven't ever seen that movie. I remember I thought it looked cheesy even when I was 10. "I love the powerglove, it's so bad".

[Nature Boy]

Without starting a console war (yeah right), what makes people think that the Revolution is Nintendo's comeback? Why would developer's suddenly jump on the Revolution when the have (mostly) abandoned Nintendo in the last few years?

I don't think Revolution 3rd party support is going to be any better than Gamecube support personally. The DS 3rd party support means nothing as far as that is concerned, as the Game Boy series has had great 3rd party support it's whole life and that hasn't meant much to it's console brethren.

Developers grumbled about the PS2 architechture and how difficult it was to code for (over PS1), but they stayed with them because they knew the PS2 would have the largest installed base. They'll stick with whomever they think will be the largest this time around too - and I'd be surprised if they thought that would be Nintendo.

[Bronty-2]

Pretty good points actually. But I think it will be better than gc support - the company is coming off some success with the ds, that has to get the attention of at least some developers. And some have to be intrigued by the idea of programming for the rev.

I agree that it won't get near the support sony will but I think rev support will be a significant step up from gc support.

[grimlock]

I think Nintendo is banking too much on a controller to sell the system, when 3rd party support should be a main concern. They will tell us they are supported by 3rd parties like they always do, but store shelves have always told the truth. Putting so much faith in a device that Sony or Microsoft can easily form their own versions of seems a little narrow-minded and possibly short sighted. When it's all said and done, no game can be made for the Revo's controller that can't be made on a conventional controller. Either move your wrist or move a thumb. The main difference is, which is more enjoyable or comfortable or preferred.

[Captain Wrong]

Every new piece of hardware is "Nintendo's big comeback." Each time around, a few more third parties drop off, first party games get a little fewer and farther between and the general public cares a little less.

I agree for the most part with Insane David's post. About the only solid things I've seen are it has a different controller and you can play the old ROMs. Well, I can play the old ROMS on my PC, DC, Palm Pilot and PS2 and yeah the controller is different but who knows what's going to happen with it.

With Nintendo, I think you have to deal more with faith than facts. People hope the Revolution is going to be all that and a bag of chips, but really there isn't a lot of cold hard evidence to back that up.

[Rockman Neo]

Well from what I've seen, on the consumer end, it's everone going "OMG I can play all the old games, woot, ROXOR!" Then again this is the same slice of consumers that wouldn't pay for StarROMs, Gametap, won't buy compilations like Midway Arcade Treasures because "those games are already supported by MAME" and so on.

You have to take into account that several ROM and Emulation sites are taking down NES and SNES ROMS just because of this feature, namely EmuAsylum. So, finding legal ROMs will eventually become a tedious stroll through Google, unless you make your own dumps.

[le geek]

Not a Nintendo fanboy.
Have fonder memories of Atari VCS & C64.
Do enjoy teh Zelda.
Wacky DS has earned it's chops.
Wait and see.

Cheers,
Ben

[Push Upstairs]

I think Nintendo is banking too much on a controller to sell the system, when 3rd party support should be a main concern.

This is true.

Which is another reason i personally have no interest in this system. There is all this talk about the older games and this controller but not for what really counts.

We know (or sorta know) that the new Zelda game will or won't use "the wonder controller" to an unkown extent.

But what do they have outside of some 1st party game?

[ubersaurus]

I thought the Gamecube was a great system but the GC is a prime example of how shallow society is as a whole when eveyone "judges a book by its cover" and comes to quick conclusions about a system-or just about anything else for that matter- just because of the way it looks and the Rep that Nintendo has with the uneducated masses that Nintendo is for kids only or some shit like that.

This is really nobody's fault but Nintendo's.

It's easy for one of us to say otherwise because we know better, but for those who don't get into this hobby quite as much as we do...how will they know if Nintendo does nothing about thier percieved image?

Nintendo failed to do anything on thier part to make themselves out as anything but a "kiddie system" to the masses. That is Nintendo's fault, not the masses.

I can agree with that.
Mostly do to the fact that Nintendo made no effort to get more mature multiport games on the Gamecube -from PS2 to Xbox- like Silent Hill 2/4, the GTAs etc. I mean everyone on these boards rants at how much COLD CASH NINTENDO HAS in the bank they could have easily paid developers/publishers like Rockstar or even Konami to bring over a few more "mature" titles to the Gamecube when it still had a fighting chance I mean they had what? Resident Evil a decent Metal Gear Solid remake ,Eternal Darkness and a few others? thats simply not enough to buck the "kiddy" rep that Nintendos has had since the days of the N64 but that is for another thread altogether.

The problem wasn't that they didn't try-RE, MGS, the Tom Clancy games, Bloodrayne, etc. were all adult oriented games. They also all sold like shit on the Gamecube compared to their other platforms(when available, that is). This could be because of Sony's larger userbase, or Xbox games generally having better visuals or online play, but the bottom line is that it happened.

The people who buy Nintendo systems largely seem to do so for their first party games. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it sucks for them when they try to branch out.

[NintenDk]

P A R T... WHY?

Because I GOTTA!

[Rockman Neo]

the gc was just the same thing as a ps2 except less powerfull whats the point in even making a console if its no differnt?

Take a look at Wikipedia some time, bud.

The GameCube has a way higher GPU than the PS2. Technically, the PS2 is the worst in terms of graphical power, with the Xbox being the most powerful. So, the GC is in the middle of the two.

[BydoEmpire]

I have faith in the Revolution because I've thoroughly enjoyed every single Nintendo system. I've never disappointed, and I don't expect to be this time around.

Third part support is going to be an issue for the Revolution because the major players have structured their teams to do cross-platform development. Since the Rev will have significantly less ram and significantly less processing power, this will be difficult (it was a pain to work around the 'cube's 8 megs less than ps2 and 1.5 gig disc). Of course, if the Revo sells really well and has a huge installed base, it will be worth the time to port the games. That said, I buy systems for the exclusive titles that I "have to play." I buy cross-platform titles on whatever system has the best version (which usually meant xbox).

Also, I don't think the Cube's third party support was *too* bad until this last year or two. Ubisoft, Activision, and EA all put their major games on the Cube.

[Tan]

6. I think your percentages are scewed since everybody I know loved that game, and in fact if they would of did the same thing in the past games then people would of been upset. So if they make another I can't see a damn thing wrong with that. I doubt it they would make another mario sunshine unless it would be called mario sunshine 2. No with the title 128 marios' it's ganna be something diff. just give it time and be patient.

Actually it is a fair assumption to say a large precentage of gamers were, at the least, very disappointed with Super Mario Sunshine. I personally was pissed off because for me it was just one step further away from everything that had made the Super Mario Series fun in the first place.

But i strongly doubt Super Mario 128 is going to be another Sunshine. With any luck it'll be like SM64 or even more like the classic Mario.

i think the lukewarm reception for Sunshine is why we're getting "New Super Mario Bros." let's hope the next console version follows this trend.

[YoshiM]

The revoltion is gonna be easy to make, it wont be bleeding edge of techology so i dont see it having any issues with overheating etc etc

Lets face it
1.cheap enough for anyone to buy
2.Looks sleek
3.Definitly better gameplay
4.Aimed at mass market, unlike the expensive ps3/xbox360
5.Nintendo still has alot they havent revealed about the rev, what we know is just the tip of the iceberg.
6.Easy to program for, any small company can make a revolution game, i dont know if the same can be said for the xbox360/ps3 it looks to me like only big comanys with lots of cash will be making 360/ps3 games


1. Nintendo is focusing on being the "other" console. They aren't aiming to be A #1, which is definitely NOT a bad thing (see Apple).
2. An improvement I'll agree.
3. How is PS3/360 not aimed at mass market? Just because they won't/aren't at the magic $199 price point? People said the same thing when the PS2 hit the market back in 2000 for $299. Guess what, sold like hot cakes and demanded mad cash on eBay. The 360 premium is $399 and retail stock is JUST NOW starting to be "normal". If you can buy the hardware at Wal-Mart...it's mass market.

Also, if an item is low in price the consumer may not buy it because it's "too cheap". Charge what the market will bear.

5. This is typical Nintendo. However I hope this doesn't bite them in the rear later. Yes we the public know about the fishing demos and such but what about games? This system is said to launch in November and it's not that far (hell, it's almost April). They should start the hype machine and start telling the masses why this system isn't just a gimmick.

6. It may be easy to program for, but will it bring the companies? The Cube was also touted as being easy to program for. Where did the support go? PS2 and later the Xbox (which, in a way, is also easy to program for as it's essentially a PC). Just because the development costs are cheaper doesn't mean there's an audience to buy your titles.


The MAIN reason i hear that people think the rev is gonna fail is because the gc failed, what the fuck kind of reason is that? people think that just because sony did good 2 times in a row that its gonna win this time around too, im sorry to break it to you but you need to wake up, sony wont be the market leader forever, eventually sony is gonna get left in the dust if they keep releasing the same controller and just have better graphics, as for online play, the revolution will have that too so nah.

The reasoning that the past system was a failure is solid. Look at Dreamcast: Sega really screwed their fan base with lack of support for past systems and it's pretty much agreed that the bitter feelings carried on to the DC. Nintendo has a rep of not only being "family friendly" but that their first party titles are just stellar. Sales prove that: third party games sold poorly on the Cube as opposed to PS2 and Xbox. "Mature" titles also seemed to have sold rather poorly on the Cube.

History and loyalty is big. The Game Boy brand is the best example of that.



Hardcore gamers will all flock to the 360/ps3, but that wont make them sucessfull, Revolution will win the mass market, very easliy in japan, it seems in america we arent as eager to gobble up innovation and fun gameplay as japan, americans would rather have a more powerfull handheld that does a bunch of crap you can do with your ipod than have a great handheld gaming device, but it will still win over america, it will just take longer.

Say what?

Before we start putting the Rev on a pedastal, let's wait until we see actual games. Just because it's cheaper than the competition doesn't mean everyone will flock to it.

Also, let's not pretend that the Japanese seem to create such wonderful gems all the time. For every Katamari there's a dating simulator or Tamagotchi clone :D .

As for handhelds....isn't the DS still beating out the PSP?


I think the ps3 is gonna get released late in the game, be too expensive and will be too complicated to make games for, it might have some games at launch but i dont think it will last long, the 360 and revoltion will fight it out for mass market with the revoltion eventually winning.

Wishful thinking. The PS2 was also a difficult beast to program for but developers got into the groove with the code as time progressed. Sony has to really, really, REALLY alienate their established base. Right now blue ray could hurt them but it's still way too early to judge.

As for Rev coming out on top: at this time the thinking is complete fantasy. The 360 can draw on the Xbox fan base once systems become more available plus its got software with familiar themes (FPS, racing, etc.) and a controller that reviewers are positive about (even on the wired controller that can be used on the PC!). The Rev hasn't seen the light of day with consumers and the controller looks like an extended version of the NES pad. While the concept of the spacial 3D isn't new (Power Glove on the NES), using it as a primary method of interaction is. Again, we have to actually *use* it before we say it's going to kick ass. Plus we need software that will actually use the feature in a good way. Look how long it took for games to use the touch screen in a fun way on the DS.

Don't get me wrong. I'd LOVE to see Nintendo do well with the Rev. The concept is very cool and if done well set some new standards. But lets not have our love for the big N or a self-hyped skew of "innovation" blind us to possible and logical realities.

Yeah, I'm a killjoy sometimes :P

[Chronodriftersx]

Nintendo knows that its name itself, whatever its called, its so integrally (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=integrally) a part of how it will be percieved that we cannot fully grasp its entirety. It becomes important enough then not to tarnish it under misperceptions and hype, so we're given a codename or placeholder for now if you will. That placeholder is soon too be discarded along with any hype that has been invariably generated in connection with it. Besides who needs hype when the name alone is probably enought to blow you away. And possibly the name Nintendo itself too a placeholder shall be replaced, or become synonymous with whatever they have coming soon to be how they are identified.

They DON'T "need to start the hype machine and start telling the masses why this system isn't just a gimmick." Its just beside the point. Because well either it is a gimmick or it isn't a gimmick and frankly they don't need to LIE or WAIST time pulling people's heads out of their XB"O"X tattooed arses just so every last person sees the revolution coming. So heads in asses or not, when it gets here it will get here. Why shouldn't Nintendo be modest over this, the motto should be fuck all to hype when it isn't needed. No half stepping...and whatever the name of the new console is, that you can be sure of. Anything else, well that's where we'll see.

When there were rumors of a DS redesign people said oh there's no way Nintendo would do that when the current design is milking people's wallets so well, there's just too much good milking to be had for them to come out with a new design this early. "No way I can see that happening..." they said. And where were those people's heads I wonder? Well guess what fuck that, Nintendo done brought out the bitchslap. Regardless of whose heads were where, and that my friends is a revolution.

And the Rev will be also. I see no reason why the next new nintendo console won't knock the smack right out of people's arms that's being injected in the form of "conventional controller construction". They came out with this bold system called the DS in the first place that no one could say for sure would fly yeah.

People said shit then but now only a year later Nintendo recognizes this could lead to so something very new. The DS in the first place took them out on a HUGE limb, HUGE FUCKING LIMB, for which they're not there to waist time on.

Thus DS gets a new and truly portable design early on and it won't stop flying off shelfs. Lack of hype is a way of saying they're done taking shit and therefore won't give us any shit. The whole reason for giving a codename.
:image: <-- Like this image, the name will be dropped. As the hype will fall and roll over those who are preoccupied with it, leaving behind the truth when the dust settles.

so poke fun, I'm sure Pikachu is game
http://www.fansview.com/1999/0606b017.jpg
^^; a.k.a. Ippongi Bang as Pikabang :wink 2:

[grimlock]

And the Rev will be also. I see no reason why the next new nintendo console won't knock the smack right out of people's arms that's being injected in the form of "conventional controller construction". They came out with this bold system called the DS in the first place that no one could say for sure would fly yeah.


While I agree the control scheme of the DS was somewhat bold, I do not think that's why people buy it. I would say it has more to do with an incredible library of games, major support, and affordable pricing. How a game is controlled will always be second place to whether it's worth playing or not.

[NintenDk]

True the control scheme is only part of what makes a DS bold (Just look at the difference between the Lite and original). Why people buy it is up to them to decide. As for Game control always coming in second to gameplay... You know poultry's just another word for chicken. And game control and gameplay seem to be intimately connected in that if you change one the other follows. Changing the way games are played has become what makes them worth playing in this case.

Anyway just look at Kirby's Canvas Curse; awesome game to play but change the way its played, say playing it on the PSP and how could it even be the same game. You could go further to say its because the DS has innovative harware control which has allowed for the library of games to become so qualitatively expansive, therefore attracting hardware sales, major support, and affordable pricing.

[Rockman Neo]

As many other people have said, it will all depend on the games. Nintendo, instead of depending on third-party titles, should instead make their OWN M-Rated titles, to erase their "kiddie" image right from the get-go.

[keiblerfan69]

The Revolution is certainly innovative and has a lot of potential and Nintendo appears to be going ahead with a plan that will make the Rev cheap and because it's cheap it's going to be a second system for a lot of people.

It's not that i have faith in nintendo, but rather i see what they're trying to do and i hope that they can pull it off.

Good idea + Low cost + Good games = Great investment.

If they can show us those three thing at E3 then they're set.

Took the words out of my mouth.

[Hams]

In past posts there was mention of Nintendo's image. I think this is really important that they sort this issue out. N needs to spend some serious money on advertising worldwide (TV, Cinema) and letting people know what the Rev is about.

All of us have a good understanding of its basic capability but the average shmoe wouldn't have the faintest idea. N needs to look at all age demographics and market accordingly especially if its looking at getting the non-gamer on side.

The only Nintendo tv advertising I’ve seen is for games (in Australia that is. I guess advertising budgets are low considering our population) Gamecube had no tv marketing. What about in the US or Europe? Was there a lot of TV advertising when the Cube was launched? There were a few Ds adverts on prime time or afternoon tv but that has seemed to have died off.

I understand it all costs. But the mainstream needs to know what the Rev is about. Even just 4 second adverts with the logo & the controller. (a teaser to create anticipation of the release) I know the launch is still a while away and we are yet to see what N's approach to promo will be but lets hope they get it right.

If Nintendo can get this right as well as the software titles & third party support. Creative titles is important, whether they are for kids (pokemon) or adults (re5) they need to be original in their approach to control system & interaction. I would love to play Pikmin, Tetris, RE5, Katamari, Killer7 w/ the rev controller. I cant wait.......

[YoshiM]

Nintendo knows that its name itself, whatever its called, its so integrally (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=integrally) a part of how it will be percieved that we cannot fully grasp its entirety. It becomes important enough then not to tarnish it under misperceptions and hype, so we're given a codename or placeholder for now if you will. That placeholder is soon too be discarded along with any hype that has been invariably generated in connection with it. Besides who needs hype when the name alone is probably enought to blow you away. And possibly the name Nintendo itself too a placeholder shall be replaced, or become synonymous with whatever they have coming soon to be how they are identified.

Like "Nintendo 64"? Or the Atari "Jaguar"? :D


They DON'T "need to start the hype machine and start telling the masses why this system isn't just a gimmick." Its just beside the point. Because well either it is a gimmick or it isn't a gimmick and frankly they don't need to LIE or WAIST time pulling people's heads out of their XB"O"X tattooed arses just so every last person sees the revolution coming. So heads in asses or not, when it gets here it will get here. Why shouldn't Nintendo be modest over this, the motto should be fuck all to hype when it isn't needed. No half stepping...and whatever the name of the new console is, that you can be sure of. Anything else, well that's where we'll see.

How can one be modest if no one really knows what's being offered? Gamers were given a taste of what the Rev *could* offer. We still don't really know what it *can* offer. Since that E3 we really haven't heard much about the Rev other than it will be backwards compatible and that a large library of past Nintendo software will be made available for download.

Nintendo wants a larger audience and it's not people like you or me who sweep the 'Net for the latest game news. They want the non-gamer: the people who dabble in video entertainment from time to time. In order to rope in this demographic, they need to get the word out on the Rev. They can't just plunk it down on the shelf and say "here" and expect that target audience to just flock in if they don't know about it. To them it's a slim DVD player looking thing with a remote control.


When there were rumors of a DS redesign people said oh there's no way Nintendo would do that when the current design is milking people's wallets so well, there's just too much good milking to be had for them to come out with a new design this early. "No way I can see that happening..." they said. And where were those people's heads I wonder? Well guess what fuck that, Nintendo done brought out the bitchslap. Regardless of whose heads were where, and that my friends is a revolution.

Huh? How is the redesign a "bitch slap"? Nintendo is known to re-release and redesign a platform . Look at the GBA SP-it came out about 2 years after the GBA? The new DS is coming out around the same time table. Besides, how is that a "revolution"? It's the same system, just smaller and with brighter screens.



And the Rev will be also. I see no reason why the next new nintendo console won't knock the smack right out of people's arms that's being injected in the form of "conventional controller construction". They came out with this bold system called the DS in the first place that no one could say for sure would fly yeah

Unless of course the Rev doesn't meet the inflated expectations of the fans. Again, it's good to be enthusiastic but lets not get too far ahead of ourselve :) . The DS was a bold move but the early titles didn't really set anyone ablaze. It took time for some good titles to actually make use of the touch screen other than character control (like Trauma Center or Nintendogs, for example).


People said shit then but now only a year later Nintendo recognizes this could lead to so something very new. The DS in the first place took them out on a HUGE limb, HUGE FUCKING LIMB, for which they're not there to waist time on.

I'm just confused. Nintendo knew that the DS (which I'm assuming you're talking about) could lead to something new. That's why the made the system. They did go out on a limb, what with the DS essentially competing with their GBA, but when you think about it the gamble wasn't really all that big.


Thus DS gets a new and truly portable design early on and it won't stop flying off shelfs. Lack of hype is a way of saying they're done taking shit and therefore won't give us any shit. The whole reason for giving a codename.
:image: <-- Like this image, the name will be dropped. As the hype will fall and roll over those who are preoccupied with it, leaving behind the truth when the dust settles.

Are we talking about the Rev here in regards to hype or are we still on the DS? DS had a good amount of hype. Do you not remember that "touching is good"? Hype is advertising. It gets people excited about your product and gets them informed about your product when the concept is new or different than what the standard expectations are. If done right, hype can be informative and truthful. Hype can also be done poorly, filling peoples heads with enough bull to fertilize a field (PS2 "emotion engine" comes to mind....).

A company has to be excited about its product if its so new and revolutionary. If the company isn't proud of its product, what kind of message does that send to the consumer?

[Push Upstairs]

Nintendo wants a larger audience and it's not people like you or me who sweep the 'Net for the latest game news. They want the non-gamer: the people who dabble in video entertainment from time to time. In order to rope in this demographic, they need to get the word out on the Rev. They can't just plunk it down on the shelf and say "here" and expect that target audience to just flock in if they don't know about it. To them it's a slim DVD player looking thing with a remote control.

Nintendo could have plunked a system down and it would have sold well in, say, 1993 but today is something different. I have to agree that if they say nothing thier quest to rope in "non-gamers" is a futile effort.

If they did choose to plunk it down and see how it sells, then it would pretty much just be Nintendo hardcore and people "in the know" buying and wouldn't that be the GC all over again?

[Teknik_SE-R]

Every new piece of hardware is "Nintendo's big comeback." Each time around, a few more third parties drop off, first party games get a little fewer and farther between and the general public cares a little less.

LOL SLLLLAAAAAAP! This is sad but true. But its not entirely Ns fault, the market is heavily saturated. Every market is heavily saturated nowdays, slimming profit margins to where it is nearly impossible to do anything, let alone anything risky (read innovative).

For this I give N props. N has taken risks noone else could ever have taken on. THe gamecube was "cutesy" which I thought was funny for a number of reasons. First, cuz I recall that the reason why the NES and SNES (even n64)were such tanks is cuz they wanted them viewed as "professional entertainment systems" that you can put with your component stack and not be embarassed, secondly the last gen systems were clearly a tech war (both in aesthetic and hardware) and N opted out and introduced an odd, hard to fit in with your entertainment system cube with cutsie little disks. I thought it was in true spirit of gaming (fun and theme based), but regardless of teh hardware specs, it just looks less powerful

(like comparing a neon SRT-4 to an EVO VIII, both about as fast in many parameters, SRT costs 10k less, and you can safely pull more hp out of the SRT4 engine, but the thing looks like an econobox, while the evo looks alot nicer and faster, so which one would you buy if you had the money to buy either)

anyway, comparatively, the GCN is "unprofessional looking, with a flip top lid instead of load tray not to mention the release color and the shape. (purple was pushed in almost all the ads and black was the "secondary" color iirc)

Now that N realizes that a game system can be aesthetically fun etc without being odd (looking at apple for inspiration) adn the consumer base generally realizes that processing power and extra features isn't everything (N's philosophy that has obviously taken root imo) I say they have a good chance with the REV. This is beside all of the innovation that may be present in teh up-coming console.