VGRebirth stealing images from other website(s)!

[Speedy_NES]

I’m sure that a lot of you have heard about Video Game Rebirth (http://www.vgrebirth.org) lately. Well, I decided to check it out recently and couldn’t help but recognize a lot of the scans on their website. Some of the scans were definitely mine, so I decided to compare them with scans from the RFGeneration database (http://www.rfgeneration.com), as that is the only place where I submitted my scans to be used exclusively for their online game database. Out of all of the gamepages that I have checked on vgrebirth, the majority of the scans were ripped from rfgeneration.com. I even crosschecked with other websites, and a bunch of scans seem to match with some of theirs as well, but I haven’t had the time to fully look into those yet. I don’t even want to know how many, if any, of their scans are actually their own work! I’m pretty mad that the staff at vgrebirth ripped those scans from rfgen as they have absolutely no permission to use them, whatsoever – they never even asked nor have they given any credit!

Their scan ripping deeds are clearly premeditated, but to top it off, I posted on their forums asking whether they accept scans that “I have saved on my computer from other websites,” and received the following response (http://www.vgrebirth.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=548) from a staff member there:

”Sure do, as long as the image isn't watermarked or otherwise marked as being property of a given site or person.”

It is also stated in their Submissions FAQ for Images (http://www.vgrebirth.org/faqs/subinfo.asp#Images): “If you provide us images from other sources on the web make sure they do not contain any watermarks or logos in them. We cannot use such images for our database.”

Now, I’m sure that anyone who has ever started up their scanner knows just how time consuming it is to scan any material. The fact that I, as well as quite a few others, spent an insane amount of hours scanning our game collections for the rfgeneration database (and I’m sure other websites, too), only to be stolen and used by vgrebirth, makes me pretty pissed. The fact that they don’t seem to care makes it even worse.

For those that wish to see some proof, here are some very obvious examples:

Original RFGen Myriad back-box scan (http://www.rfgeneration.com/images/games/U-027/bb/U-027-S-00060-A.jpg)

VGRebirth Myriad page (http://vgrebirth.org/games/game.asp?id=11037&redirect=%2Fgames%2Fsearch%2Easp%3Fkeywords%3Dmyri ad%26x%3D0%26y%3D0)

Original RFGen Flintstones: Surprise at Dinosaur Peak box-back scan (notice wear top right corner) (http://www.rfgeneration.com/images/games/U-027/bb/U-027-S-02360-A.jpg)

VGRebirth Flintstones: Surprise at Dinosaur Peak (same wear top right corner) (http://vgrebirth.org/games/game.asp?id=10913&redirect=%2Fgames%2Fsearch%2Easp%3Fkeywords%3Dflin tstones%2Bsurprise%26x%3D0%26y%3D0)

Original RFGen Maxi-15 AVE front-case scan (http://www.rfgeneration.com/images/games/U-027/bf/U-027-S-04030-A.jpg)

VGRebirth Maxi-15 page (http://www.vgrebirth.org/games/game.asp?id=10542&redirect=%2Fgames%2Fsearch%2Easp%3Fkeywords%3Dmaxi %26x%3D0%26y%3D0)

I'll leave it at those three examples for now...If anybody wants more proof, I’ve unfortunately got too much of it :S

I don’t even want to start guessing how many scans they have ripped from rfgeneration.com. The fact that the majority of the games that I checked had scans from RFGen says enough.

I’m posting this here to pass the word around so that webmasters from other sites with video game images can check up on this and possibly look into finding a solution to keep sites like VGRebirth from stealing scans in the future (i.e. watermarking all images, as sad as that may be). If there is one thing that I'm sure nobody wants, it’s websites trying to make it big by stealing other people’s hard work. The fact that RFGen will likely have to watermark all of their images now thanks to VGRebirth, is unfortunate enough.

[Sylentwulf]

Did you simply NOTIFY them? If yes, and they ignored you, then they are definitely in the wrong, and should be drug out into the road and shot, of course.

HOWEVER. If someone simply e-mailed them the images, and there is no identifying mark, they have NO WAY of knowing where the images came from, or if they are stolen. Plain and simple.

This has happened to me a TON of times. Someone says "Hey thanx for the item, heres a better pic than the one you currently have on your site" They give it to me, I use it. A week later, someone is screaming on a message board that I stole their pic. Then I have to explain that a simple e-mail to the site owner would have worked wonders, and remove it from my site immediately upon request.

[Speedy_NES]

Did you simply NOTIFY them? If yes, and they ignored you, then they are definitely in the wrong, and should be drug out into the road and shot, of course.

HOWEVER. If someone simply e-mailed them the images, and there is no identifying mark, they have NO WAY of knowing where the images came from, or if they are stolen. Plain and simple.

This has happened to me a TON of times. Someone says "Hey thanx for the item, heres a better pic than the one you currently have on your site" They give it to me, I use it. A week later, someone is screaming on a message board that I stole their pic. Then I have to explain that a simple e-mail to the site owner would have worked wonders, and remove it from my site immediately upon request.

First of all, they credit contributions, and the person credited on the pages with the ripped scans is a staff member there, not a user! Secondly, when asked in the forums whether it is ok to submit images from other websites (clearly without permission) for their database, a staff member responded without any type of hesitation! If it were a regular user that submitted them, no problem, but the fact that staff is behind it, makes it so much worse! Also, how am I to ever expect them to remove the ripped images from their database? The majority of the scans I encountered in the NES section alone were ripped from RFGen...so am I to expect them to remove ALL of their scans? How are they ever going to know which scans they ripped if they didn't care about ripping scans in the first place (they obviously don't seem to care)? Am I supposed to go through every one of their gamepages and compare the scans to make a list for them? If they had only ripped a couple scans, no biggie, but, like I said before, the majority of what I have seen is ripped!

[Darren870]

I've talk to the owner of vgrebirth on here and on aim and the guy is a really nice dude. Simply say something to him, im sure he will sort things out.

Why the big deal though? He isn't using the work to gain anything more then a data base. Not profiting it in any way or passing it off as his own.

I really don't see the big deal

[Speedy_NES]

Why the big deal though? He isn't using the work to gain anything more then a data base. Not profiting it in any way or passing it off as his own.

I really don't see the big deal

They never asked to use any of RFGen's scans, nor have they given any credit. That alone is a big deal, given the huge amount of time and effort that many people spent on having those scans made.

[Ed Oscuro]

The problem is that a lot of hobbyist sites don't see the big deal taking other people's work, and you'll be hard pressed to find a site that doesn't have SOME uncredited scans or information.

Give them the benefit of the doubt for now, stay calm about it. They aren't watermarking stuff like EBAUM'S WORLD INCORPORATED which would be a whole other issue.

[Steven]

I am a user of VGRebirth... I just emailed one of the head honchos there this very link. I'm pretty sure he's a member here as well. I'm sure he'll address this when he has a moment.

[Ed Oscuro]

I would have let Speedy contact them first.

[badinsults]

Yeah, contacting them would be a good idea, rather than jumping to conclusions. However, having sites stealing content from other sites does piss me off, and I have seen it happen to my own site from some very large websites.

[captain nintendo]

Interesting subject.

I know of more than a few of my scans that I have given to www.rfgeneration, that are now on video game rebirth. I honestly wouldnt have an issue with it, if I had been contacted and asked about using my scans. (and properly credited)

I am also sure that if any information or scan could be asked for and used ;) Its just a matter of asking is all. I know I recently asked Jason "Dangerboy" about using his pictures and information on rfgeneration. I got his permission, and trust me that everything being used will be credited to him or his site.

Not simply taken without permission and then crediting myself..... @_@


I am positive that this is not VGrebirths way, and probably is just an individuals fualt ? But I think the person who took and used my images is a staff member there and credited himself for my work :angry: (not cool)


I will be awaiting a reply. Let us know what you hear Speedy.

[tynstar]

I am starting to scan my CIB Sega Genesis library for RFGeneration and I will be watermarking all the scans so they don't get ripped off. It takes a lot of time to scans games. I have 705 Genesis games and that a scan for the cart, manual, box front and box back. That’s 2820 scans that I don't want other people right clicking on saving and then posting on a different site without asking me.

Am I pissed about VGRebirth yeah, but being pissed has nothing to do with me being one of the webmasters at RFG. To me it is a matter of principle.

[Fighter17]

I am starting to scan my CIB Sega Genesis library for RFGeneration and I will be watermarking all the scans so they don't get ripped off. It takes a lot of time to scans games. I have 705 Genesis games and that a scan for the cart, manual, box front and box back. That’s 2820 scans that I don't want other people right clicking on saving and then posting on a different site without asking me.

Am I pissed about VGRebirth yeah, but being pissed has nothing to do with me being one of the webmasters at RFG. To me it is a matter of principle.

While you be doing the scans of the Genesis games, I will be updating a lot of Genesis games with information and such. :D

[roushimsx]

Wait, did you make sure you got the permission to scan the Max 15 before you scanned it and uploaded it to the internet? How about The Flintstones box?

I think you're blowing things too far out of proportion.

Do you scan stuff for your e-penis or do you do it to actually help preserve information/data/art/whatever?

Maybe it's just me, but when I scan / record / photo / cap / dump / rip and then see it being spread elsewhere, it puts a smile on my face that someone liked what I did enough to spread it around. If the site I submit it to gives me credit, then that's great and dandy. If they don't, that's ok too. It just irks me when stuff I take the time to scan gets watermarked (which is why I quit scanning stuff for Mobygames).

Everyone is too eager to get credit for whatever that the whole spirit of it all gets lost in the shuffle. Scanners want credit for scanning, websites want to tag/mark every fucking thing so people will visit, pirates are busy tacking intros and trainers to games, etc.

*shrug* that's just my two cents. I'm sure no one cares.

On a sidenote, what resolution do you scan in? Those images looked a bit small, so I'm just curious if you submit smaller photos or if you do 300dpi scans and websites resize them for bandwidth concerns.

Sometimes I like to fuck around (http://roushimsx.shackspace.com/KoF94.jpg) with higher resolutions, but god damn if it ain't overkill.

[tynstar]

I am starting to scan my CIB Sega Genesis library for RFGeneration and I will be watermarking all the scans so they don't get ripped off. It takes a lot of time to scans games. I have 705 Genesis games and that a scan for the cart, manual, box front and box back. That’s 2820 scans that I don't want other people right clicking on saving and then posting on a different site without asking me.

Am I pissed about VGRebirth yeah, but being pissed has nothing to do with me being one of the webmasters at RFG. To me it is a matter of principle.

While you be doing the scans of the Genesis games, I will be updating a lot of Genesis games with information and such. :D

Awesome thanks!

[tynstar]

Wait, did you make sure you got the permission to scan the Max 15 before you scanned it and uploaded it to the internet? How about The Flintstones box?

I think you're blowing things too far out of proportion.

Do you scan stuff for your e-penis or do you do it to actually help preserve information/data/art/whatever?

Maybe it's just me, but when I scan / record / photo / cap / dump / rip and then see it being spread elsewhere, it puts a smile on my face that someone liked what I did enough to spread it around. If the site I submit it to gives me credit, then that's great and dandy. If they don't, that's ok too. It just irks me when stuff I take the time to scan gets watermarked (which is why I quit scanning stuff for Mobygames).

Everyone is too eager to get credit for whatever that the whole spirit of it all gets lost in the shuffle. Scanners want credit for scanning, websites want to tag/mark every fucking thing so people will visit, pirates are busy tacking intros and trainers to games, etc.

*shrug* that's just my two cents. I'm sure no one cares.

On a sidenote, what resolution do you scan in? Those images looked a bit small, so I'm just curious if you submit smaller photos or if you do 300dpi scans and websites resize them for bandwidth concerns.

Sometimes I like to fuck around (http://roushimsx.shackspace.com/KoF94.jpg) with higher resolutions, but god damn if it ain't overkill.

I think you are missing the point. We just want credit for our hard work. IF they would of asked.

As far as resolution goes I scan between 150-300dpi. On our old server space was an issue but it isnt anymore. Teh guide line we use is the smallest side of the image be 550 pixels.

Here si a thread about submitting images.

http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=announce;action=display;num=11291727 94

[izret101]

You might think it is great to see your work used around the web.
But i only like seeing my stuff on the web if my name is attatched.

If people are just stealing my shit and taking credit for it i get pissed off.
I enjoy doing the work i do for the RFGen database as well as things i have done to help other various websites, including this one. Although it took alot longer to get done since i wasn't able to do it myself and was alot less than i have done on other sites.

But really what is the purpose of doing so much work if you just go unnoticed and some random person steals it and claims it for their own?

And what possibly purpose could VGR have for thumbnailing veryimage they have on that site other than in hopes of people not recognizing stolen scans?

Its not even like the staff member tried to hide the fact he was stealing images.
His username is optigrab.

As for contacting them about the images that we know for sure were stolen i don't see how that can help any.

Sure those might get removed but what about the possibly thousands of others that were stolen?

I don't see how runing a website and using stolen content from other websites as well as condoning the stealing of said content can even make sense to someone.

Anagrama is on the staff there i would like to here his response on this.
I "singled" him out because i know I know he still posts here because Pieter said he mentioned VGR being "head and shoulders above everything else"
(I did double check that quote up so i didn't get insulted for misrepresentation)

[roushimsx]

You might think it is great to see your work used around the web.
But i only like seeing my stuff on the web if my name is attatched.


So really you're no different from the warez groups that attach intros to roms. Your work is comprised of copying other peoples' work and attaching your name to it, and you're mad someone stripped your name off.

[izret101]

You might think it is great to see your work used around the web.
But i only like seeing my stuff on the web if my name is attatched.


So really you're no different from the warez groups that attach intros to roms. Your work is comprised of copying other peoples' work and attaching your name to it, and you're mad someone stripped your name off.

I fail to see the comparison.

How is me scanning a game i purchased and putting the image into a database similair to someone hacking a program illegaly and distributing it illegally across the web?

The only real link is the name being attatched.

I have used roms. I have never seen somone remove the original authors credit from the program and claim the copied ROM as their own work.

No they just stick there name their to take credit for the time/effort they spent dumping it and sharing it.

Besides that when a user submits a image to RFGen there is a little line of text that goes like this:

"I agree that the content being submitted is original work, and not copied in whole or part from any source that is not my own. I also agree that I have a backup of the work, so that if the webmaster (Michael Collins) should decide to remove the content without warning, I am not at any personal loss. By sending this submission, I do not grant RF Generation ownership of it. However, I do grant RF Generation permanent non-exclusive rights to use it how they choose to. This means I still own the content I submit, can use it wherever and however I choose, but that RF Generation can also use it. RF Generation wishes to credit everyone who helps with the database, even in the smallest way. If an error occurs and I am not credited, I will contact the webmaster immediately. Nobody here should be forgotten."

That is slightly outdated as Mike is no longer with us.
But never the less it is unfair/wrong/unethical(depending on your views/beliefs/whatever) not only to us as a website that the images are stolen but also to our users who take time to contribute images and information to our website.
Which they are always credited for.

I just don't see how someone can defend the stealing of the images.
I have denied the use of several thousand images myself because i knew they were stolen from around the web.

[roushimsx]

[
I fail to see the comparison.

How is me scanning a game i purchased and putting the image into a database similair to someone hacking a program illegaly and distributing it illegally across the web?


How is me dumping a game I purchased and putting the ROM on the internet any different from you scanning artwork / magazine pages / books you didn't make/write/draw and distributing them illegally across the web?


I just don't see how someone can defend the stealing of the images.

You're missing the point: You're getting mad that someone copied something that YOU stole, and you're getting bent out of shape because you didn't get internet props for it, just like the warez scene kiddies.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I was a friend of the site owner for a long time (though I haven't spoken to him in a very long time), and I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't do this intentionally.

VGRebirth, like other game scan/information sites such as MobyGames, gets a large majority of its items from its userbase. Anyone can send them images, and not say where they're from. Maybe the scans which you claim were stolen by the staff were given to them by a person who got them from the RFGen site to begin with.

They have NO WAY of knowing where the users get the images. They accept them in good faith, believing that their users wouldn't steal them or anythiing. And I know Klarth enough to know that he's got no time to check up on the origins of all images he gets for the site.

Just. Chill. Instead of blowing this up here, you should've just talked it over with him.

Edit:
Doh. I thought Klarth was the owner. Guess I was wrong. :P Still, I'm sure he wouldn't do something like this.

[badinsults]

Wait, did you make sure you got the permission to scan the Max 15 before you scanned it and uploaded it to the internet? How about The Flintstones box?

I think you're blowing things too far out of proportion.

Do you scan stuff for your e-penis or do you do it to actually help preserve information/data/art/whatever?

Maybe it's just me, but when I scan / record / photo / cap / dump / rip and then see it being spread elsewhere, it puts a smile on my face that someone liked what I did enough to spread it around. If the site I submit it to gives me credit, then that's great and dandy. If they don't, that's ok too. It just irks me when stuff I take the time to scan gets watermarked (which is why I quit scanning stuff for Mobygames).

Everyone is too eager to get credit for whatever that the whole spirit of it all gets lost in the shuffle. Scanners want credit for scanning, websites want to tag/mark every fucking thing so people will visit, pirates are busy tacking intros and trainers to games, etc.


You are completely missing the point. When I scan something and put it on my site, it is because I want people to come to my site and enjoy my efforts. When someone just takes things from other sites without permission, then any person who sees that image is one less person that will come to my site. It means that they don't have to do any work to get visitors. So yeah, if someone rips off my scans without giving credit, I am not happy. Especially when it is IGN.

[izret101]

[
I fail to see the comparison.

How is me scanning a game i purchased and putting the image into a database similair to someone hacking a program illegaly and distributing it illegally across the web?


How is me dumping a game I purchased and putting the ROM on the internet any different from you scanning artwork / magazine pages / books you didn't make/write/draw and distributing them illegally across the web?

Me putting a picture of the game or its cover art online is not going to effect that games sales.
You dumping this games ROM or ripping its ISO and therefore putting the actual game itself online will.
That is how it is different.

If it was illegal to put a picture/scan of a game online then IGN, MobyGames, GameCrazy, DP, RFGen, etc etc either wouldn't exist or would exist in a very different compacity.

[Griking]

I have to agree with Roshi on this one. The image belongs to the game developer and simply purchasing a copy of the game doesn't give a person the right to copy and distribute that image onto the internet. It really doesn't matter if you're just hosting the images on a website for others to enjoy or not. It also doesn't matter if it harms the sale of the game that it came from. They're copyrighted images and stealing is stealing. You can't cry foul about someone doing it to you if you yourself are doing it to others. Let me know when you've secured Nintendo's or Sega's permission to host the scans and then tell me how someone stole your work.

[RevQuixo]

You know, I would have appreciated an email or a PM or something before you decide to drag me or my site's name through the mud.

As previously mentioned, a majority of our data is submitted by users. We also only use 200 pixel on the longest side for thumbnails which have legally met the definition of fair use under current copyright law (last time I checked at least).

Most of my NES images were sent to me via a site user who hosted the images on his personal webspace. I had and have no way of telling where they originally came from, but I can tell you definitively that VGR has not harvested images directly from RFGeneration. In instances where this occurance has happened in the past I have sought permission from the site where images have been taken and credit has been given on the site. (This happened with SMSPower a year or so back). I also have gained permission of sites such as the Mega CD Database and PCenginefx.com to use their images. I do not go around intentionally swiping pics willy-nilly.

Now, all this being said, I will gladly give RFgeneration props for any image that can be identified as theirs (or to the scan contributor directly) This is done via the site or contributor signing up for the site and me linking the user profile to the game profile.

[GarrettCRW]

While I understand the whole giving credit where credit is due thing, there's something to be said for fair use of copyrighted images.

Case in point: Throughout the life span of the now-defunct G.I. Joe website, Zartan's Domain, the webmaster (a guy named Rod Hannah) took literally hundreds of screen grabs from the series' 95 episodes and feature film (plus a smattering of stuff from other Joe series and even grabs from The Transformers, Jem, the Visionaries, and My Little Pony and Friends), including dozens of pans (which are a bitch to assemble, believe me). And never has he ever made a fuss about other sites using the images (and, in fact, he's given the entire collection away a number of times over the years).

[tynstar]

You're missing the point: You're getting mad that someone copied something that YOU stole, and you're getting bent out of shape because you didn't get internet props for it, just like the warez scene kiddies.

I dont do the warez seen or ROMS either. And as for as credit goes it is for the SCAN. I dont scan the cover of a game and say I created the cover. x_x

[tynstar]

I have to agree with Roshi on this one. The image belongs to the game developer and simply purchasing a copy of the game doesn't give a person the right to copy and distribute that image onto the internet. It really doesn't matter if you're just hosting the images on a website for others to enjoy or not. It also doesn't matter if it harms the sale of the game that it came from. They're copyrighted images and stealing is stealing. You can't cry foul about someone doing it to you if you yourself are doing it to others. Let me know when you've secured Nintendo's or Sega's permission to host the scans and then tell me how someone stole your work.

You guys are so missing the point it is amazing.

[Griking]

I have to agree with Roshi on this one. The image belongs to the game developer and simply purchasing a copy of the game doesn't give a person the right to copy and distribute that image onto the internet. It really doesn't matter if you're just hosting the images on a website for others to enjoy or not. It also doesn't matter if it harms the sale of the game that it came from. They're copyrighted images and stealing is stealing. You can't cry foul about someone doing it to you if you yourself are doing it to others. Let me know when you've secured Nintendo's or Sega's permission to host the scans and then tell me how someone stole your work.

You guys are so missing the point it is amazing.

And I think you're missing our point. The images being scanned are copyrighted images and the scanner most likely doesn't have the legal right to scan them and then publish them to a website. By doing so you are in fact stealing the original artist's hard work. Why don't you defend him as hard as you defend the scanners who steal his work? To complain that someone is stealing an image that you store yourself is hypocritical.

I guess to me it all boils down to this one question; does the original scanner have the legal right to scan the box art and publish it to a website without the original owner or publisher's permission?

[tynstar]

I have to agree with Roshi on this one. The image belongs to the game developer and simply purchasing a copy of the game doesn't give a person the right to copy and distribute that image onto the internet. It really doesn't matter if you're just hosting the images on a website for others to enjoy or not. It also doesn't matter if it harms the sale of the game that it came from. They're copyrighted images and stealing is stealing. You can't cry foul about someone doing it to you if you yourself are doing it to others. Let me know when you've secured Nintendo's or Sega's permission to host the scans and then tell me how someone stole your work.

You guys are so missing the point it is amazing.

And I think you're missing our point. The images being scanned are copyrighted images and the scanner most likely doesn't have the legal right to scan them and then publish them to a website. By doing so you are in fact stealing the original artist's hard work. Why don't you defend him as hard as you defend the scanners who steal his work?

WTF are you talking about? If anything I am promoting the art work and game not stealing anything. Like I said I SCANNEDthe image didn't created the art work. Dumping ROMS is stealing. x_x

[Griking]

I'm sorry but you seem to have missed my last question since I edited my post after you responsed. Please answer me this;

Does the original scanner of the image have the legal (key word there) right to scan the box art and publish it to a website without the original owner or publisher's permission?

I say he does not and that by doing so he is in fact stealing someone else's work himself. These images are copyrighted for a reason you know.

[Lothars]

I have to agree with Roshi on this one. The image belongs to the game developer and simply purchasing a copy of the game doesn't give a person the right to copy and distribute that image onto the internet. It really doesn't matter if you're just hosting the images on a website for others to enjoy or not. It also doesn't matter if it harms the sale of the game that it came from. They're copyrighted images and stealing is stealing. You can't cry foul about someone doing it to you if you yourself are doing it to others. Let me know when you've secured Nintendo's or Sega's permission to host the scans and then tell me how someone stole your work.

Absolutely I agree fully with what your saying

that's why I don't see why others are complaining about this, it shouldn't be an issue

Just send a message to the webmaster of the site and it will be worked out but to complain about it for little or no reason makes no sense.

[InsaneDavid]

Scans are scans, they are a reproduction so when other sites snap them up and reuse them you're pretty much screwed. As has been said, it's a reproduction of original copyrighted arts. However most sites that republish them (other than the zillion free hosting "look at me" pages) don't want to have their userbase pissed off so gladly give credit where credit is due. This whole thing sounds like a big miscommunication.

I'm going to be setting up a database of pictures of all the games I own / have owned (I've been taking pictures of everything I've sold for a couple months now) this summer as it's frustrating when I'm looking for a picture of a game I had or need to take a fresh one to show someone something when I can't find one online. These are to be PICTURES, not scans, and each one will have a watermark but not over the actual image content. The watermark is there to help fend off direct linking to the images, I've done that in the past and when someone is direct linking I usually get an e-mail a week or so after from someone else ratting them out.

(low res sample)
http://www.startoursinfo.com/junk/DP-SMdemo01.jpg

My PICTURES are MY copyrighted content as they are not reproductions (scans) of the source material. Now if someone wants to use that and asks me (and I have a feeling some of the anime related games may be requested to be on other sites) then they can gladly have it as long as it's hosted on THEIR servers with the watermark intact and somewhere there's a text link to my site.

[GarrettCRW]

Well, so much for fair use and good will..... :(

[captain nintendo]

I'm sorry but you seem to have missed my last question since I edited my post after you responsed. Please answer me this;

Does the original scanner of the image have the legal (key word there) right to scan the box art and publish it to a website without the original owner or publisher's permission?

I say he does not and that by doing so he is in fact stealing someone else's work himself. These images are copyrighted for a reason you know.

While I do see your point, I dont think it has bearing on this discussion. Let's stick to the topic at hand........


There have been days where I have spent 5,6 or 7 hours scanning. Hell, then tynstar takes everything and crops it, and names it...blah,blah,blah.... Well it's time consuming and alot of man hours. So to have some "FUCKO" come along and swipe all of that hard work kind of pisses me off.

I have asked for or seeked permission of any scan or picture that we have used. If we dont get permission, then we dont use it.

[Funk Buddy]

I've contributed scans to VGR, SS, DP and a eBay seller. They are my games and while it's a lot of work scanning and such I gave them gladly. I'm sure if you really wanted to protect your work you'd watermark it and disable right click, which I know can be defeated but helps.

Now as far as the legal issue... who knows. Would scans and photos be concidered differently? Look at all the collector sights out there (for whatever) that use images. Do they all have permission? I bet no.

[Darth Sensei]

It's all about site traffic. These sites have this content to increase user traffic and popularity.

This is a major motivator for the guys who take the time to scan their games for their sites. Why shouldn't they be upset when somebody shortcuts and takes their work?

Now, it may not be legally actionable when VGRebirth takes their scans without permission, but I think it's entirely appropriate for them to be called out when it's blatant and obvious.

BTW, I found the name "Optigrab" to be hilarious. I'm rather shocked they didn't just hotlink the images to save bandwidth. :roll:

[Icarus Moonsight]

You have to do your "due diligence" and protect your images. Yes, I understand that it's not a very nice thing that those guys did but, I'm saying that you didn't do anything to help prevent that sort of thing from happening. Without a watermark, logo or origin site on the image, it's almost as if your declaring the image public domain.

To those of you that are trying to take this thread down another "it's the company's rights, not yours" circle jerk, please stop. It's not anywhere on the map of the point at all.

[izret101]

Also to all these people saying that they have gladly given their images to many sites.
That is not the issue at hand.
I have donated plenty of my time, energy and various types of work to at least a dozen websites excluding ones i work at or have made.

I had no problem giving it to the people because i gave it.
It was not just taken without my knowledge.

[RevQuixo]

It's all about site traffic. These sites have this content to increase user traffic and popularity.

This is a major motivator for the guys who take the time to scan their games for their sites. Why shouldn't they be upset when somebody shortcuts and takes their work?

Now, it may not be legally actionable when VGRebirth takes their scans without permission, but I think it's entirely appropriate for them to be called out when it's blatant and obvious.

BTW, I found the name "Optigrab" to be hilarious. I'm rather shocked they didn't just hotlink the images to save bandwidth. :roll:

Yeah it's all about site traffic...that's why I have all of the google searches and pop-ups and what-not to bring me revenue :roll:

Now in terms of Optigrab...he contributed hundreds of scans to the site before I made him staff. He also contributed typing out the box text for hundreds of other profiles. Now I will readily admit to not asking him where the scans came from, but the reality of the internet is that data trades hands freely. We use small thumbnails of boxes as identifiers for games....not as a selling point from the site. No one can use our 200 pixel wide/high shots for any functional purpose. They are too tiny for anything other than saying "your game should look like this".

In terms of hotlinking to save bandwidth...puh-lease. My site isn't exactly some fly by night, geocities hack job. I have been working on it diligently for almost 5 years with a team of coders and staffers that continually upgrade and enhance personalization and site navigation.

Somehow I think that this would be less of an issue if RFGen and their "supporters" weren't running a competing database. I've already offered to give RF credit for any scan they can prove is theirs. I've yet to have one person email me about this situation from their site. Instead they continue to rant and rave on a third party site, which in my estimation has more to do with people like anagrama saying that VGR is "head and shoulders" above other database sites than it has anything to do about images.

[Darth Sensei]

Somehow I think that this would be less of an issue if RFGen and their "supporters" weren't running a competing database. I've already offered to give RF credit for any scan they can prove is theirs. I've yet to have one person email me about this situation from their site.

"I suppose that this would be less...." Let me fix that for you. It should read, "I suppose this would be less of an issue if the people who did the work of scanning the damned images would just roll over and keep their mouths shut."

I love how you get caught stealing and then you have the gall to try to throw mud at the people who comment on your stealing. Then you think that because you now agree to give credit for what you've already been caught stealing that this makes ammends?

You're a thief. Optistealer is admitting through his very screen name that he's a thief.

Why not just come out and admit it and apologize? You're certainly not going to win this pissing match because you're entirely in the wrong.

[Griking]

I'm sorry but you seem to have missed my last question since I edited my post after you responsed. Please answer me this;

Does the original scanner of the image have the legal (key word there) right to scan the box art and publish it to a website without the original owner or publisher's permission?

I say he does not and that by doing so he is in fact stealing someone else's work himself. These images are copyrighted for a reason you know.

While I do see your point, I dont think it has bearing on this discussion. Let's stick to the topic at hand........

How is this not relevant to the topic at hand? What you're basically saying is that we should simply ignore the fact that you guys are stealing these images yourself because it suits your needs but we should start up a posse and hang a person who may have turned around and stole your stolen images.

Please, someone explain to me how this isn't so blatantly hypocritical that it's stunning. I have to be missing something here like where you guys legally secured the rights to the original images before you published them.

[RevQuixo]

Somehow I think that this would be less of an issue if RFGen and their "supporters" weren't running a competing database. I've already offered to give RF credit for any scan they can prove is theirs. I've yet to have one person email me about this situation from their site.

"I suppose that this would be less...." Let me fix that for you. It should read, "I suppose this would be less of an issue if the people who did the work of scanning the damned images would just roll over and keep their mouths shut."

I love how you get caught stealing and then you have the gall to try to throw mud at the people who comment on your stealing. Then you think that because you now agree to give credit for what you've already been caught stealing that this makes ammends?

You're a thief. Optistealer is admitting through his very screen name that he's a thief.

Why not just come out and admit it and apologize? You're certainly not going to win this pissing match because you're entirely in the wrong.

And are you admiting from your screen-name that you use Cue files to burn all of your ISO (BIN files). Look out...he's a rommie! Let me ask you this. Did RFGen when it decided to add a system to its site magically have a list of all the games that were released for it? No doubt they scoured the internet and probably DP and "stole" the data. VGR does the same thing. I'm not going to apologize because I do not check every one of the thousands of images on my site to see if they existed elsewhere on the net. I've already said I would give RF credit where credit is due, but this is out of netiquette not because I am beholden to do so.

[Darth Sensei]

And are you admiting from your screen-name that you use Cue files to burn all of your ISO (BIN files). Look out...he's a rommie! Let me ask you this.

Umm... good guess. Pass the cough syrup. I'm a martial arts instructor who happens to enjoy billiards.

And you're not doing it out of netiquette. You're doing it because you don't want the negative publicity on this and other sites. To make your actions now seem noble is laughable.

[RevQuixo]

And are you admiting from your screen-name that you use Cue files to burn all of your ISO (BIN files). Look out...he's a rommie! Let me ask you this.

Umm... good guess. Pass the cough syrup. I'm a martial arts instructor who happens to enjoy billiards.

And you're not doing it out of netiquette. You're doing it because you don't want the negative publicity on this and other sites. To make your actions now seem noble is laughable.

The only thing the negative publicity is going to do is allow people to compare VGR to RFGen and allow the users of this site decide if they chose, which one provides the online data and usability that they want out of a collector database (if they want it at all).

I'm not sure what else I can do to mitigate this little net-war. You want me to apologixe to RFGen..sure..I'm sorry that a overzealous site user took scans from your site and presented them as his own and that VGR used said images. There. I will not apologize for blantant thievery of RFGen's scans, however, because no one on my staff ever went to their site and harvested it directly.

[tynstar]

I've already offered to give RF credit for any scan they can prove is theirs.

With that said can this thread be locked.

[captain nintendo]

Wow Gripeking...... Just wow. :roll:


I think I will leave the final posting up to Speedy since he started this thread. But it seems as if maybe "RevQuixo" or one of the RFGEN admins should e-mail or pm each other about the issue.


(I agree with tynstar...lock it up)

[tynstar]

@ Griking - I we clam the scan not the cover art you dumb ass. I am not scanning images then making a repro case. Do you have any clue what this thread is about?

@RevQuixo - From what I understand when Mike created RFG Joe helped Mike with the data. I would have to check for sure with Joe since I wasn't around then.

[Speedy_NES]

I'm sorry but you seem to have missed my last question since I edited my post after you responsed. Please answer me this;

Does the original scanner of the image have the legal (key word there) right to scan the box art and publish it to a website without the original owner or publisher's permission?

I say he does not and that by doing so he is in fact stealing someone else's work himself. These images are copyrighted for a reason you know.

While I do see your point, I dont think it has bearing on this discussion. Let's stick to the topic at hand........

How is this not relevant to the topic at hand? What you're basically saying is that we should simply ignore the fact that you guys are stealing these images yourself because it suits your needs but we should start up a posse and hang a person who may have turned around and stole your stolen images.

Please, someone explain to me how this isn't so blatantly hypocritical that it's stunning. I have to be missing something here like where you guys legally secured the rights to the original images before you published them.

I was going to bring up some points, but most have been brought up now, so I will limit this to a couple replies. First of all, why start an argument on copyrighted material when the issue here is more one of morality? One of the primary uses of the images, as far as I'm concerned, is to help collectors know what to look for. For instance, if nobody knows what a particular rare game looks like, they are less likely to pick it up if they ever come across it. The same goes for variations - anybody that is into variations would like to see some proof that they actually exist. It could be that the form of the images, being scans and not photographs, has brought up the 'stealing from the original creators' issue, but the intention is not to profit from their artwork.

Now going back to what I said earlier, the main issue here was the stealing of the time and effort spent on making these scans and hence not complying with the intention and motivation behind the time and effort spent on making the scans. Everybody that wants to achieve anything in life has to spend time and effort on something to have it grow. Many users have spent time and effort trying to make RFGeneration what it is today. When another site with a similar aim rips images from RFGeneration, then they are trying to increase their growth at the expense of RFGeneration's growth. Profiting is obviously a very relative term and one that is not always linked to a monetary value.


I'm not sure what else I can do to mitigate this little net-war. You want me to apologixe to RFGen..sure..I'm sorry that a overzealous site user took scans from your site and presented them as his own and that VGR used said images. There. I will not apologize for blantant thievery of RFGen's scans, however, because no one on my staff ever went to their site and harvested it directly.

You claim that no one on your staff did this, but the 'overzealous site user' that you speak of is staff, is he not? Also, does it not say in your submissions FAQ that you accept images from other sites as long as there are no watermarks? Lastly, was it not another staff member on your forums that basically said that you accept images from other sites, clearly without permission? My original post on here was not simply about RFGen, it was also to inform others about the potential theft of images from their sites - and this is the only place to really accomplish that. This was one of the reasons why I did not directly contact you or other staff at VGR. Am I expected to go through your entire database to compare all of the scans in order to send you a list where credit is due? Either way, I agree that we should lock this thread and continue the discussion through PM/e-mail. I will send a PM within a couple days - have to concentrate on exams right now.

[GrandAmChandler]

You kids need to play nice. Try harder next time.

-LOCKED-