Too hard for its own good? [Archive] - Retrogaming Roundtable

klausien

03-31-2006, 09:02 AM

Forgive me if this topic has already been posted. Hell, I may have even posted something to this effect before. I also figured I would post it in Classic because that is where the conversation will most likely turn, and a classic game is my goal.

Yesterday I finally decided to give Ninja Gaiden Black on XBox another go to try and unlock the arcade game. This time I have a guide and I'm playing in Ninja Dog mode. I had shelved it (and the original release) some time back in frustration. I could have eventually worked my way through Normal mode with lots of practice, trial and error, and a little luck, but it simply wasn't fun. The Ninja Dog mode is far from easy and actually feels like it should have been Normal mode in the first place. It is still tough, but it is definitely doable and satisfying.

The original release was just too hard for its own good. Devil May Cry 3 also suffers from this problem. Haven't played the Special Edition. I am all for a challenge, but a game in this genre loses something when it is too tough.

"Well, the original Ninja Gaiden series was a beast, and this keeps with tradition." Hogwash. The difficulty is less about tradition and more about Itagaki's sadistic need to torture the player. It is just so much easier to achieve and sustain precision within the simple, tight controls of a good 2D game than to do so in a 3D action game like the XBox version. Don't get me wrong, I am enthralled with the XBox Ninja Gaiden. It is absolutely gorgeous and plays about as well as it could in 3D (especially with the camera control available in Black). I just don't like this kind of cheapness in this type of game. If I want to play something unfair that is still incredibly fun, I will play a Cave shmup!

End of rant.

c0ldb33r

03-31-2006, 09:13 AM

Awhile back I was playing a Turrican game. I can't remember which. It was so hard that I had used an invincibility code, and still couldn't beat it :(

googlefest1

03-31-2006, 10:15 AM

i had this complaint with Robocop for the xbox -- well i guess i still do -- with the crapy collision detection and that one frakin enemy that can kill you with one shot ( robocop is not supposed to be so easy to kill)

eventually i finally beat it but what a pain - i also don't like rejoicing when an in game enemy kills him self and i no longer need to deal with him.

Some games become real hard when you select the hardest level -- right now im banging the table because of how difficult the 16th mission is on total annialation (core side) -PC - played through the arm side on normal and felt it was too easy so when playing the core side I selected hard and it seemed just as easy until now -- its kicking my butt and I totally, totally abhor switching the difficulty after I set my mind on playing through in a particular setting.

The other game is Halo on the xbox -- for a long time I have been stuck on legendary at the part when you first get beamed on to the alien ship. I have almost made it a few times but always in the end I get rushed and raped to death. There could have been a couple less elite enemies in that area (or your team of soldiers could have better AI to help you out)

ill have to stop here - this will end up being too long if i start to think about all the games that make my head hurt.

damn turican - damn baal - oh man did that game piss me off

rbudrick

03-31-2006, 10:26 AM

Awhile back I was playing a Turrican game. I can't remember which. It was so hard that I had used an invincibility code, and still couldn't beat it

HA HA! Lol, which one? Turrican games can be a pain in the ass, for sure.

There's a lot of games I just thought were way too goddamn hard for their own good. Some of them just took a lot of practice. I remember thinking Golgo 13 was like that. I'd get two or three levels in and always got frustrated because I didn't know what to do. Once I got to Greece, the game got really awesome...I couldn't put it down and beat it within a day after that. After at least two years of not being able to even get to Greece!

Even Ninja Gaiden 1 for NES I used to think was impossible (well, level 6, anyway). With enough practice I was eventually able to beat it on one life.

Rush N Attack was another one. I could seldom get past level 2. The game was impossible, imo. I played that game for years and years until one day I got a wild idea to set the game to two player, have them both stand back-to-back, and put a C clamp over the turbo button for attack on both controllers. I came back in two days and both players had enough points for the maximum amount of lives, which, like Contra is 30 iirc.

I sailed through the game with that. Then I still had lives, so I did it again, then again. Soon I realized that I wasn't dying at all. I reset the game and after so many years I beat the game legitimately with just 5 lives. I even managed to beat it so many times I maxed out the score without cheating. It's weird, cheating helped me to explore the game better to know all the enemy positions, and after that the game was too damn easy. I couldn't believe I thought it was so hard.

BTW, that cheat works in a LOT of different games. I would have never beat Contra 3 for SNES without that trick (the hard mode, I mean).

-Rob

c0ldb33r

03-31-2006, 11:14 AM

Awhile back I was playing a Turrican game. I can't remember which. It was so hard that I had used an invincibility code, and still couldn't beat it

HA HA! Lol, which one? Turrican games can be a pain in the ass, for sure.

I'm not 100% sure. Maybe it was the super NES one? There was one part involving an assload of crazy jumping onto platforms. Even though I was invincible enemies could still hit you and knock you back, but you didn't die. So, I'd keep getting pushed off the platforms.

It sucked.

ACCarl

04-01-2006, 12:28 AM

Battletoads anyone?

-SuperYoshi-

04-01-2006, 12:35 AM

The NES Battletoads, yeah, I definitley agree with you there, but the Genesis version's difficuly was tampered with so the game was actually beatable.

diskoboy

04-01-2006, 12:54 AM

I had the same problem with NGB. It's dammn near impossible. Now that I have a 360, I'm giving it another go.

I think one game that was so hard, was GunValkyrie on the Xbox. I hated that god damn game. I tried so hard to like it, because I love hard games, but GV is ridiculously hard.

I guess it was the control scheme.

Felixthegamer

04-01-2006, 01:25 AM

Ghosts 'n Goblins sure is difficult. Punisher for nes was always hard for me and the X-men on Genesis was too

biscuitdough

04-01-2006, 01:35 AM

(First post!)
i really do like a hard game, but for me it really depends on the type of difficulty that gets me frustrated. my favorite game of all time is ghosts n goblins and the first time i played it i threw my genisis across the room.but it was chalanging in a way that was addicting and interesting.
now i also bought a game when i was younger called turrican. it gave me torrets syndrome....enough said.
so what makes one difficulty better than another? any ideas?
i think maybe the interesting idea behind ghosts n goblins sucked me in or the huge bosses or maybe even a main character who had emotion.
to me turrican wasnt interesting. it was a robo-cop impersonator shooting bats and other dull enemys.

but there still is a limit on dificulty. here's a list of insane games to me: some of the later levels in ninja gaiden, the first boss in ninja gaiden (xbox), fzero gx diamond cup, raiden (were you seriously expected to finish it in one quarter?!), contra: hard ops, and hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy (the bablefish puzzle came straight from gamer hell! :angry: )
well that's all i can think of for now.

InsaneDavid

04-01-2006, 02:48 AM

(First post!)

Welcome to the forums! Be sure to post in the Introduce Yourself thread (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11)!

Adventures of Bayou Billy - NES
Come on, this game was like a bitch and a half which sucked because the concept and cutscenes were really cool and it was a game I certainly wanted to enjoy - but it's just impossibly difficult.

Deadly Towers - NES
We all know about Deadly Towers with it's masochistic game design and poor contol. I still have the highest respect for those who have completed this game.

Spelunker - NES
Now I don't mean the "fall half an inch and die" aspect of the game, that's not cheap, it's realistic. I'm talking about the stages that come later in the game. Completing the first run though the caves is one thing, and the second time through where all the keys and gems dissapear was alright as well. However after that the subsequent exhibitions involve things like those items moving on screen AND being in different locations AND being invisible. It makes the game nearly impossible, you jump around where you think something is and hope to hear the little pickup sound effect. If you read FAQs about the game most have very general or nonexistant information after the first two times through.

dairugger

04-01-2006, 04:51 AM

NGB is freakin hard! I shelved it awhile back in frustration, damn those fast ninjas that strap explosives to you! theres acouple other games that have been shelved due to being stuck... xenogears, xenosaga (both stuck at the last guy.. in the case of gears- i dont even remember how to play it anymore!) haunting ground (stuck at the guy who stalks you and uses a gun, and i still cant figure out the alchemy machine!!)

others include fatal frame 1, silent hill 3/4. oh, and final fantasy x2.. anyone else get stuck and come back to it later only to find they cant remember the systems, or details of the story..??

and metroid prime 2..

ryborg

04-02-2006, 02:03 PM

Some games become real hard when you select the hardest level

Like any Civ PC game. It's not even playable on the hardest level because the comp just rolls over you.

Maybe it's just me, but I've never even been close to beating Arkanoid on the NES without any cheat codes. And this is a game I've invested more than enough hours into.
________
Glass vapor genie review (http://www.vaporshop.com)

playgeneration

04-02-2006, 02:30 PM

Terminator for master system
i guess they were going for realism with this one, because you only get one life for the enitre game, no continues or anything! Poor old kyle reese aka you dont stand a chance against the never ending supply of terminators. I bought an action replay pretty much soley for this game, i just had to complete the evil game

Hokkus

04-02-2006, 03:14 PM

I think one game that was so hard, was GunValkyrie on the Xbox. I hated that god damn game. I tried so hard to like it, because I love hard games, but GV is ridiculously hard.
I really can't understand why everyone considers Gunvalkyrie hard. I beat the most of levels on the first or second try, and I usually suck at games.

Dynamite Headdy (MD)
The beginning is a piece of cake, but gets really unfair later.

Ecco the Dolphin (MD)
A great game, one of my all-time favorites, but beating the game wasn't really worth the pain. It's a pretty challenging from the start, but the last two levels (The Tube, The Machine) were a nightmare.

Phantasy Star 2 (MD)
The first Phantasy Star was freshingly challenging, but this one was a kick to the grotch. It just isn't funny anymore.

devilman

04-02-2006, 03:21 PM

No mention of Alien Hominid?

jajaja

04-02-2006, 03:29 PM

Holy Diver for Famicom. Its a great platformer, but its so damn hard. I made it to the 2nd boss once hehe ;)

roushimsx

04-02-2006, 03:51 PM

No mention of Alien Hominid?

What a cheap piece of overrated shit that game was. You know a game is cheap as fuck when they throw extra lives at you like candy at the end of each stage. Anyone who complains about Battle Garegga's invisible bullets needs to take a moment to try out the wonderous shitfest that is Alien Hominid.

My contributions:

Breakdown (Xbox) - Really, really interesting game with a badass presentation, but the checkpoint-based save system results in a herculean ramp in difficulty towards the end that made me put the game down for good. There's one point where you know the designers were just thinking, "ok boys, let's reward the players' efforts up until now with a firm kick to the jimmy!"

Image Fight (Arcade) - I love large hitboxes....on enemy ships. Not my own. I felt proud to be able to single credit clear THE FIRST STAGE.

F-Zero GX (Gamecube) - God damn, Dodonpachi Daioujou is easier than this game.

Spikeout: Battle Street (Xbox) - Ok, I loved Spikeout in the arcades and I'm down with limiting continues and such, but what pisses me off is the way the game is setup. See, before you begin a level you have to watch a cinema while the level loads. The cinemas are long and dull, and even when you do reach a point in the cinema where you can skip, the level is still loading. Hell the level is loading even when you don't skip the cinema, so really if you run out of lives on a stage, you're fucked and I hope you don't mind waiting up to 3+ minutes before you can get raped on the stage again. Really, this game is a combination of shitty load times and high difficulty.

smokehouse

04-02-2006, 04:03 PM

Here�s a few more to chew on:

NES
Ghosts-n-Goblins- Still one of the hardest games ever made

Ninja Gaiden II or III- These games and their one hit deaths really piss me off.

TMNT- I�ve still yet to beat this game, the later levels are hard as hell

SNES
Super Ghouls-n-Ghosts- One of the hardest games I�ve ever played.

Super Smash TV- This game is insane at times, especially when you get into the Pleasure Dome and the game speeds up.

Super R-type- Freaking hard

Trumpman

04-02-2006, 08:00 PM

I agree with F-Zero GX. That game is just freaking insane. Diamond Cup on Master difficulty is really hard. I finally beat it to unlock more tracks. The special cars and tracks in that game make it worth it, imo. Also, story missions on very hard are crazy. I spent hours on some of those.

Also, Rogue Squadron II was really hard when trying to get gold medals, but once you master it, it is a great feeling.

jdc

04-02-2006, 11:15 PM

Gaiden for Xbox pissed me off too. I remember seeing the first ever demo movies for that damned game and waiting for what seemed like ages for it to arrive. Paid through the nose for it, drooled over the graphics in the opening level......and shook my head in disbelief as it dawned on me that I had just purchased a "game that will never get finished".

How about Panzer Dragoon Orta. There's another one that rapes your wallet and mocks you as you fail to finish it.

I've yet to take down the final boss in both Final Fantasy 8 or Lunar 2 Eternal Blue. My saves for both games are right outside the boss doors. Any other RPG has been cake. These two are muthas for some fucked up reason.

I'm actually quite sick of over the top difficulty levels in video games, especially if it's used as a way to extend the longevity of a game. I can't count the number of modern games that I've played that start out awesome, then go straight down the shitter. The thing just turns out to be a waste of money.

smork

04-02-2006, 11:24 PM

Most of the modern manic shooters are too damn hard. Fortunately, you can swallow the ego and drop the difficulty to tolerable levels...

I'll definitely 2nd (or 5th) NG -- too damn hard!!!!

Xizer

04-02-2006, 11:34 PM

Modded Xbox + trainers = instant win.

dairugger

04-03-2006, 01:59 AM

kinda off topic, but this is why i love nintendos games..usually.

super princess peach is a prime example- i can have fun and its just so casual! mario world is another one that springs to mind thats not hard and i have a blast playin them!

dairugger

04-03-2006, 02:01 AM

on the other hand clocktower 3 was hard (gettin the hang of the boss battles) but looking back, i loved every minute of it!

klausien

04-03-2006, 06:13 AM

How about Panzer Dragoon Orta. There's another one that rapes your wallet and mocks you as you fail to finish it.

Maybe its just my persistence and general skill level with games of this type, but I found Orta totally doable. Killer game.

XYXZYZ

04-03-2006, 02:26 PM

I'll vote for Batsugun. (Sega Saturn) That game was NOT designed for casual "A good shooter every now and then" gamers.

SNKFan75

04-03-2006, 02:39 PM

For me one of the hardest games to beat is Gaiares and Guwange.

Most Cave games are super hard but come on!

SNKFan75

njiska

04-03-2006, 02:50 PM

Gaiden for the Xbox, much like the original, is a hard game, but it's one that actually makes you feel like you've accomplished something and it isn't cheap about it.

Much like Contra's of years past, the difficulty, at least for me, was what made me keep playing it.

NG is the first game in years that caused me to actually give up a week of my life just so i could beat it as a matter of pride.

Towlie2110

04-03-2006, 03:49 PM

ninja gaiden was hard, but doable, legendary halo is insane, but doable.
Rush n' attack is hard, but like megaman bosses (find the patterns)
I once heard ikari Warriors actually doesn't have an ending.
Back to the future III for sega is an insanely hard challenge that I hold proudly in my belt.
mortal kombat trilogy on highest settings and level.

rbudrick

04-03-2006, 03:50 PM

Holy Diver for Famicom. Its a great platformer, but its so damn hard. I made it to the 2nd boss once hehe

OMG! I forgot about Holy Diver. Listen up, folks...if you love NES games, this one is awesome...ok, so it's a Famicom game, but no real English skills are needed. Great graphics, killer music, tough bosses, but there's a catch. The game is basically impossible. I managed to get to the stage 5 boss (and almost killed him) without cheating. I think there were 8 stages, iirc. After that, even with save states, this game was almost impossible. The cheapness factor is taken to a whole new level in these stages. It is just plain impossible.

I would love to hear from anyone who has legitimately beaten this game. You know, this would be a perfect game for one of those speed runs people do. I swear...NOBODY has ever legitemately beaten this game...nobody. But seriously, it's so good you just keep coming back.

-Rob

GuilewasNK

04-05-2006, 07:36 PM

NES - Time Lord

I still don't know of many people who got past the level 3 boss (man in a sombrero). I only did it once and quite frankly I don't know how. That was the first game that I was sorely tempted to put in a microwave.

dreamcaster

04-06-2006, 12:03 AM

4 Wheel Thunder on Dreamcast would've been awesome if it weren't impossible.

ahamilton0953

04-07-2006, 11:34 AM

devilman

04-07-2006, 02:38 PM

4 Wheel Thunder on Dreamcast would've been awesome if it weren't impossible.

God, yes. I'd forgotten all about that. Far too difficult. Rush 2049 is tough too but not in that league.

Teknik_SE-R

04-07-2006, 03:11 PM

I know it sounds lame, but I can't get past level four on double dragon III, and with a game genie, I still can't beat the last boss. THis is in two player mode btw. single player is impossible for me

I can't get past the bikes on the nes version of battletoads, and with the gg, I tried and tried and finally got to the top of that crazy rotating pillar, got killed, and never tried again.