A customer wants me to lie in a customs form.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I sold a game this wednesday. The end price was $12.51 USD. The buyer is in Brazil, and he just paid me, but he also said this in his Paypal message:

For Customs purpose, please describe the contents as "Media price (old computer game): $1.00"
And don't include any paypal or ebay invoices.
Thank you for your attention!

... I'm not sure what to do here. This isn't the first time someone's asked me to lie in customs forms. So what do I do? I'm going to have to lie this time because if I don't, I'm likely to get a negative.

What do you guys do when buyers ask you to lie on these forms?

[scorch56]

To be quite honest with you.. I put whatever anyone wants me to on the customs form.. within reason. I mean I WON'T call a video game a can of vienna sausages or something like that; but I see it this way:

We're very fortunate to live with the kind of postage and customs sytem we do in America. Sure OUR rates are as high as anyone else's when we ship overseas.. but the way I see it.. my money's (well.. the buyer's actually up to that point) going to getting this package OUT of my country. What happens to it after that is up to the postage system that takes over in the BUYER'S country.. not mine. Even the Post Office has that kind of attitude about it. If you want assurance? You'd better purchase EMS JUST like it's offered to me.. from countrie's abroad.

I asked my postmaster the other day about if Global Priority is really gauranteed to arrive at any certain time.. he said no; it didn't matter whather you pay for surface or air or priority.. stuff still gets stuck in other countrie's customs for any length of time added on. I asked him if paying for priority got one priority treatment in these countries.. he said that varied from country to country. In other words.. when someone pays for internantional priority.. the only place to gaurantee it is within the US postal system.

I was thinking of this the other day. I've bought things from England, Ausrailia and tons of stuff from our Canadian brothers up north in my time. I've NEVER had to tell any foriegn shipper to put anything on MY packages.. and whether the sender DOES have to declare contents and value; I've NEVEr had to pay a tariff at my mailbox/door upon delivery. There's no little mail taxman that follows my mailman around and collects EXTRA money for anything I've ever recieved.. ever. see what I'm getting at?

Sure I know if we deal with certain businesses overseas sometimes we pay a VAT tax or something like it.. but that's not the same. To me.. a tariff are the fees the sender's own country charges AFTER the buyer has already paid me in full as far as I'm concerned.. and I sympathize with anyone who has to do that. One of the little "perks" we have as Americans.

Now I know that someone will argue with me that we pay taxes on foriegn purchases.. but I'm talking about private transactions through private individuals.. not sales from businesses.. so we don't.

So would I declare a $12.51 video game as a $1 PC game? Yeah.. you'd bet your ass.. that's close enough for me. Especially to a South American country where the money's so devalued anyway. Chances are the customs official in his country if he even opened the box is gonna' not know or give a crap about the difference about what he's see as an old DOS PC game box with floppies or an old NES cart (I'm just theorizing of course.. I don't know what you sold the guy).

Having said all that.. there are two last things. If you are caught declaring something that isn't.. are the Brazilian police gonna want to extradite you? Probably not.. over a $10 dicrepancy as ambiguous as calling a video game a PC game (I swear half the game dealers on eBay can't make that kind of a distinction); it could be looked upon as an honest mistake; but some people hate risk of any kind. Lastly.. if the package DOES get lost somehow would the claim for restitution (if insured) be on what you claimed? or what the buyer KNOWS was inside? This is something I WOULD discuss with a foreign buyer if I was shipping a big ticket item. It's up to them.

[scooby105]

I just don't ship international for reasons such as this. It's too much of a hassle to deal with unless you're selling a highly collectible item.

[The Brown Eye]

I do that as well, although I try to keep it reasonable (i.e. for your game, I'd probably mark it $5). I've never had a problem either. The only time you can't do that is when you want insurance, because the insured value can't be more than the declared value. For instance you have a game which is worth $100, but you mark it as $20. You can only get $20 of insurance on it.

Just FYI: I should note that another person in another country and myself both shipped items a while back to someone in Brazil and they never got there (marked at correct values). So you might not want to do it in this case, it's up to you.

[GrandAmChandler]

I just don't ship international for reasons such as this. It's too much of a hassle to deal with unless you're selling a highly collectible item.

I totally agree.

[chaoticjelly]

I always mark items down for overseas, except the states, where your customs allowance is $200..

In the UK our customs allowance works out at around $30 if the customs form is marked as "merchandise" and $48 if the form is marked as a "gift" (which implies that you paid nothing for the item)

The reason the Brazilian buyer would like you to mark the packet at $1 is because I hear Brazilian customs are even more strict, they will charge for even what we would call low amounts.. $1 is probably overkill to put, but the reason he wants no paypal invoices or bills inside is because if you mark it as a gift, and it has something inside to show it was paid for, and they open it.. well then somethings going to happen because of it.

I'd just mark it down at $5 like someone else said in this thread, really its no big deal, unless your a company (which im guessing your not?)

Besides, customs men in Brazil aren't exactly going to say "oh yeah, thats an R7.. its worth $10 they lied on the customs form"

are they? LOL

[jajaja]

I just don't ship international for reasons such as this. It's too much of a hassle to deal with unless you're selling a highly collectible item.

What do you mean with too much hazzle? To fill out the customslip takes about 10 sec, then your done.

I always ask sellers to mark the package as a gift and put a low value. The import limit here is so freakingly low that you can hardly import 1 game without paying crazy taxes. The import limit is about $30 and it havnt changed since the 70's for some reason.

Lets say you buy some used NES games for $50. If it get stopped in the custom you have to pay 25% of the value + custom fee. Custom fee variates if you can pick it up yourself or not. If you can pick it up the price is about $13. If you cant pick it up yourself its about $25.

Then you have $12.5 (25% of value) + $13 or $25 = $75.5 or $87.5. So you might end up paying as much as ~$87.5 for some old and used NES games.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that you have to pay taxes of what the shipping costed too, that is if the value is over $30. So you might end up paying around $100 for the NES games.

[suppafly]

dont be so afraid of everything LOL

Theres NOTHING that could be done against you even if the price is unrealistic. The only thing that could happen is that the customs wont believe the price and charge other taxes for the BUYER. There is no real punishment at all for the seller

[jajaja]

I remember once, i bought 5-6 loose NES games for about $20. The seller had written the value to $80 so i had to pay full taxes for something i shouldnt pay for haha LOL

[chaoticjelly]

I remember once, i bought 5-6 loose NES games for about $20. The seller had written the value to $80 so i had to pay full taxes for something i shouldnt pay for haha LOL

Yeah I bought some SNES games from the states once, for about $7 in total plus shipping

Way below the customs threshold, but for some reason the moron that posted them decided to put they were worth $120 on the customs form, I ended up having to pay about £40 in customs tax.

Ended up getting it back after sending HMC&E a print off of the eBay auction, it was a real hassle though!

[Mayhem]

I ask all the time. I think only one seller has ever turned me down. Simply because as said above, our customs limits are stupidly low, especially when you consider the value of stuff I could bring personally into the country on travel and not be liable.

[Griking]

What do you mean with too much hazzle? To fill out the customslip takes about 10 sec, then your done.

Reasons people may not want to ship internationally

1) Customs forms ARE a pain in the ass. Sorry, but they just are.

2) Any time someone asks me to lie on a legal form it IS a pain in the ass. Sorry.

3) Can't just drop the item in a mailbox. I have to go to the post office and wait in some unGodly long line on a weekend morning so the package can be officially weighed. I'm sure it's different from post office to post office depending on where you live, but for me and my post office it just isn't worth my time for the few bucks I may make on the auction.

4) Something always seems to go wring with price quotes and it costs me an extra buck or two more. I suppose I can solve this by purchasing a shipping calculator for $50 but who's gonna pay for this, you?

5) Things get held up or even worse lost because of your damn customs dept. This isn't my problem but according to PayPal it is. if I can't prove that you received your item then you'll get your money back. It's just not worth the risk for me.

Now don't get me wrong, I do make exceptions for time to time. If I'm sending a single game to Canada from the US I'll usually do it since due to some strange quirk it's usually cheaper to send a single game via Airmal Letter Post to Canada than it is to ship the same game via Priority Mail to my own country. :hmm:

I'll also make exceptions for people I know or good customers that I've delt with before.

[dave2236]

amazingly everything I ship internationally is a "gift" worth $10.

[Night Driver]

No matter how it is rationalized, falsifying a customs form is fraud. Period.

[Darren870]

I always do gift, video game, $5

If someone asks me to do something differn't I do. Not fair people should have to pay extra just for it to come into there country.

Who cares if you lie anyways?

[Night Driver]

If someone asks me to do something differn't I do. Not fair people should have to pay extra just for it to come into there country.
The customs taxes of another country are not the seller's responsibility. Buyer's should be prepared to pay any import duties that their country imposes. If buyer's don't like the customs taxes they are charged, then they should petition their government to change the law, not whine to the seller and insist that the seller commit fraud for them


Who cares if you lie anyways?@_@

[kevincure]

Night Driver:
It may be illegal, but so is, for instance, driving a couple miles over the speed limit, or jaywalking on an empty street. That is, it's a relatively harmless crime. I assume you also pay income taxes on all your ebay sales, and sales tax if you sell within your state?

[Griking]

Night Driver:
It may be illegal, but so is, for instance, driving a couple miles over the speed limit, or jaywalking on an empty street. That is, it's a relatively harmless crime. I assume you also pay income taxes on all your ebay sales, and sales tax if you sell within your state?

Its a little different to jaywalk on an empty street then it is to sign your name onto a federal legal document when you know damn well that the information that you're attesting to is fraudulant. Would you rather be convicted of jaywalking or felony mail fraud?

That being said, it's is unlikely that a person would be charged for this crime. But it's really up to the person in question to decide if they feel comfortable signing their name to something that they're lying about.

[jaybird]

Reasons people may not want to ship internationally

1) Customs forms ARE a pain in the ass. Sorry, but they just are.

2) Any time someone asks me to lie on a legal form it IS a pain in the ass. Sorry.

3) Can't just drop the item in a mailbox. I have to go to the post office and wait in some unGodly long line on a weekend morning so the package can be officially weighed. I'm sure it's different from post office to post office depending on where you live, but for me and my post office it just isn't worth my time for the few bucks I may make on the auction.

4) Something always seems to go wring with price quotes and it costs me an extra buck or two more. I suppose I can solve this by purchasing a shipping calculator for $50 but who's gonna pay for this, you?

5) Things get held up or even worse lost because of your damn customs dept. This isn't my problem but according to PayPal it is. if I can't prove that you received your item then you'll get your money back. It's just not worth the risk for me.


I agree with everything you've said. I've quit shipping internationally for these exact same reasons.

Once I refused to lie on a customs form and got berated by the bidder once he got the item and had to pay.

Yeah, you may lose a bit of cash not selling internationally, but it's really just not worth it.

[jajaja]

[Yeah, you may lose a bit of cash not selling internationally, but it's really just not worth it.

Say again ;) I pushed prices up around 50 dollars etc and that was a last second bid. No one else tried so the seller would have gotten 50 less if i didnt bid. Today i also bid on an auction. The seller only shipped within the country, but i asked (someone else also did) if he/she could send international and the seller said yes. The winning bid would have been 20 euros if he/she chose not to send international. Instead, the winning bid ended at over 100 euro. There was 3 bidders and the 2 lowest (1 was me) pushed the price upto 100. The winner was in the same country as the seller.

[Kitsune Sniper]

[Yeah, you may lose a bit of cash not selling internationally, but it's really just not worth it.

Say again ;) I pushed prices up around 50 dollars etc and that was a last second bid. No one else tried so the seller would have gotten 50 less if i didnt bid. Today i also bid on an auction. The seller only shipped within the country, but i asked (someone else also did) if he/she could send international and the seller said yes. The winning bid would have been 20 euros if he/she chose not to send international. Instead, the winning bid ended at over 100 euro. There was 3 bidders and the 2 lowest (1 was me) pushed the price upto 100. The winner was in the same country as the seller.

And that's why I ship internationally. Apparently I have a reputation now. I sell a lot of things to German buyers, for instance. They love me there. O_O

But I don't want to lie on a frickin' FEDERAL FORM EITHER.

So I'm torn here.

[MichaeltheGreat]

I also believe in honesty and will not lie on a form. One thing I have wondered about is whether it is ok to declare the value not what he paid for it, but what I paid for it? Sometimes I pay a buck or two at a yard sale for what I resell for good money on ebay. Is it wrong to declare the value what I paid for it?

[Kitsune Sniper]

I also believe in honesty and will not lie on a form. One thing I have wondered about is whether it is ok to declare the value not what he paid for it, but what I paid for it? Sometimes I pay a buck or two at a yard sale for what I resell for good money on ebay. Is it wrong to declare the value what I paid for it?

Well, see, there's TWO problems with that.

Let's say you paid a buck for an item, but you sold it on eBay for, uh, $200. You declare the value as $1, but the eBay insert (if any) states you sold it for $200. Customs officers like to open packages and check for said notes to verify someone didn't rip them off with the form.

There's also the matter of insurance... if I declare it's worth $1, I only get $1 in insurance...

[jajaja]

If you write another value and they figure it out (chances for this is incredible slim, speaking hypothetical) what will happend? You can just say you wrote the wrong value.
If you wont want to write another value you dont have to.
But it might suck for the buyer.

[fishsandwich]

No matter how it is rationalized, falsifying a customs form is fraud. Period.

:above me: :above me: :above me: :above me: :above me: :above me: :above me: :above me: :above me: :above me: :above me: :above me: :above me: :above me:

[Rev. Link]

I understand your worries over the potential negative, but you have to do what you feel is right. If you don't want to falsefy information on the customs form, you shouldn't. As it's been said, those fees are the responsibility of the buyer, not you.

Maybe you should contact the buyer and let him know about this. In a tactful way, of course, explain that those fees are his to worry about, and that if he didn't want to pay them he shouldn't have bid. Perhaps you could offer him a choice. Pay the fee like he should, or you could mutually agree not to complete the transaction.

[*RichM*]

I've been asking that (lowering values on customs form) to all of my ebay sellers since the beginning of ebay-ing in 1997, none have problems doing that.

As far as we are transacting legal items/merchandize, there don't seem to be any problems with it.

Customs ppl deals with zillions of packages every day, I am sure they need NOT to bother with checking whether values declared on paper is the market value of that particular item, or is it the sender falysifying it :)

Most of the sellers I bought from understands the item I bought would incurr me high import charges if we are to declare as is, so I always request at least 50% off the actual transaction values ( I often buy Chanel, Hermes purses for my wife and mostly costs $1000 onwards)

Those sellers knew if they can make things easy for me, and I come back for more purchases, in which I did :)

I never heard any of them get caught by customs and end up in federal jail since 7 years ago I dealt with them, in fact some are growing with new customers in various countries and guess what they still falsifying customs values till now

[wrldstrman]

Who not to say that they didnt buy it as a gift or are giving it as a gift...the only thing I dont like about shipping overseas is like someone said the item getting held up in customs or where ever the last item I sent to Spain took over 2 months for the buyer to get it and one to France took about 2 months..

[scorch56]

"Sometimes I pay a buck or two at a yard sale for what I resell for good money on ebay. Is it wrong to declare the value what I paid for it?"

.. Uhmmm. dude.. isn't that lying also (which you said you wouldn't do), but in the opposite direction of what you said you wouldn't?

A lie's a lie.

Besides.. why would you want to do that? It would do nothing for you.

Ahhh.. I see now!

You're asking if it's okay to make the same kind of lie.. but for a different reason!

If you wanna' be a saint all the time.. you should declare WHATEVER value YOU sold the item for.. everytime.. period, and yeah.. I guess I don't. I'm going to Hell.

[Berserker]

Personally, if I were you I'd cover for him, have him leave a positive feedback on the deal, leave my positive, and then avoid dealing with him in the future.

The principles of what is truly "right" and "wrong" can be debated here ad infinitum, but when it gets right down to it, that's not really the issue. The issue is that this person is now asking you to do something you're personally not comfortable with. As you can see here the "answer" varies from person to person, but to me, honoring the deal and then avoiding them after that makes the most sense. Moreso than twisting logic around and throwing whatever personal boundaries you have out the window to align with someone elses', anyway.

To each their own, but that's what I'd do.

[Darren870]

When ever i ship an item over seas I always write whats in it. However I also mark it as a gift and for $5.

$1 might be pushing it but I wouldnt do more then $5 on a pc game or any game for that matter.

I dont understand the big deal, yes its lying on a federal forum, but there not going to know. Lying whats in there I wouldnt do but lying on the price isn't going to hurt you and will make that person happier and potentially give you more business in the future.

[Diatribal Deity]

Real Ethics 101 (not institutional). If you can live with yourself for doing it so be it! If its going to bother you that much, have him pay the extra buck or two should it get caught up. For that amount, personally I wouldn't worry about it.

[jajaja]

What about those who sell things for 1 cent and take 20 dollars in shipping? Technicaly the value for 5 GBA games would be 5 cent. Had you bought it another place the value would be $100. So it variates :)

But as mentioned already, if you dont feel good about doing it, dont do it.

[jonjandran]

Would you rather be convicted of jaywalking or felony mail fraud?

That being said, it's is unlikely that a person would be charged for this crime. But it's really up to the person in question to decide if they feel comfortable signing their name to something that they're lying about.

Wait a minute, you actually put your REAL name and address and signature on a customs form ? I'm sorry but I don't put my real information on anything that I don't HAVE to. I'm Jack Meoff as far as the Government is concerned.

(I'm joking by the way)

[Princess-Isabela]

No matter how it is rationalized, falsifying a customs form is fraud. Period.

if you would live in Europe, you would thought about whole matter quite differently(especially if you're not rich, love the game, but customs would kill entire deal).

[MichaeltheGreat]

ok, i'm having a discussion and not saying what i would or would not do. I have refused to put false information on a custom form and I have always put the purchased amount.

i guess my example wasn't the greatest for more of my general question. As defined on a custom form, is the value always what is paid by the buyer? What if the buyer overpays (as often is the case with video game stuff on ebay). what if he pays a boatload of money for a common game. Is it then wrong to declare the value at the commonly aproved value?

I'm not asking to try and skirt the law in any way. I just want to know how custom law defines value.

[Griking]

No matter how it is rationalized, falsifying a customs form is fraud. Period.

if you would live in Europe, you would thought about whole matter quite differently(especially if you're not rich, love the game, but customs would kill entire deal).


We're not questioning the fact that lying will save international buyers money. We're discussing whether it's ethically right to lie in order to save you money.

[jajaja]

if you would live in Europe, you would thought about whole matter quite differently(especially if you're not rich, love the game, but customs would kill entire deal).

Indeed. I wouldnt be able to collect if there was no gift or value option on the custom forms. As i said before, the limit is $30 and it havnt changed since the 1970s. $30 in 1970 was worth alot more than it is today.
Another thing, i can drive to my neighbour country, takes 2 hours, shop things for about $500, drive home and dont pay any taxes. But if i order stuff, i can only buy for $30. They have talked about raising the limit to about $170 for years now, but they dont done shit. Until then, i wont support such low importlimit. You can hardly get 1 game before you get slapped with big fees.

You can also have stuff shipped to something called Post Restance. Then you can avoid taxes, and yes, its 100% legal. But then I have to drive 2 hours. I dont see the reason why i should waste 2 hours and unessessary polute when the seller can just mark the package as a gift. The result are the same, but writing low value and mark as a gift will save alot of time.

[Kitsune Sniper]

if you would live in Europe, you would thought about whole matter quite differently(especially if you're not rich, love the game, but customs would kill entire deal).

Indeed. I wouldnt be able to collect if there was no gift or value option on the custom forms. As i said before, the limit is $30 and it havnt changed since the 1970s. $30 in 1970 was worth alot more than it is today.
Another thing, i can drive to my neighbour country, takes 2 hours, shop things for about $500, drive home and dont pay any taxes. But if i order stuff, i can only buy for $30. They have talked about raising the limit to about $170 for years now, but they dont done shit. Until then, i wont support such low importlimit. You can hardly get 1 game before you get slapped with big fees.

You can also have stuff shipped to something called Post Restance. Then you can avoid taxes, and yes, its 100% legal. But then I have to drive 2 hours. I dont see the reason why i should waste 2 hours and unessessary polute when the seller can just mark the package as a gift. The result are the same, but writing low value and mark as a gift will save alot of time.

*ahem*

I ALWAYS mark my items as gifts (because they are, technically, gifts - I'm not a registered commercial endeavour, I'm just a dude.) And I've been told some of my buyers still get charged customs for them.

Is that supposed to be right?

[jajaja]

If you mark the items as a gift the import limit is usualy higher. Here, if the package is marked as gift the limit is $170. If not, its $30. I dont know if this applies to all countries tho. I have had things stopped in custom that was marked as a gift tho. But its my problem of course, not the sellers. I would never give negative feedback if the seller forgot or didnt want to mark it as a gift or put a lower value. The buyer in your case knew about the custom stuff. I would just mark it as a gift and send it.

[16-bit]

dont be so afraid of everything LOL

Theres NOTHING that could be done against you even if the price is unrealistic. The only thing that could happen is that the customs wont believe the price and charge other taxes for the BUYER. There is no real punishment at all for the seller

That is incorrect. Talk to a US lawyer or a US customs broker.

The United States doesn't have these crazy import duties. Our laws are fair, but if you screw up the punishment is severe. In a country like Brazil, their laws are unfair (like the high import duties), but if you screw up you can get away with it if you have money. I lived there ten years ago, and I saw it first hand. I prefer the US system, and I think our fair laws are one of the reasons why our country is so innovative and successful.

As someone who exports thousands of dollars in merchandise each month, I would have to wear a santa cap to the post office each day if I am going to get away with writiing "gift" and $10 on each package, while insuring domestic packages. Why stop at the customs form? Why not inflate the condition of the game and to get a higher price. Honesty is the best policy with the goverment and with customers.

I know that a lot of people on eBay are willing to commit customs fraud, and eBay loves it. They've even deleted posts from customs brokers on their international trading boards. Essentially, eBay is an online duty free shop. No wonder they have acheived so much success. Eventually, either countries will adjust their tax system for a global internet marketplace, or duty will be collected at the point of sale.

Then I'm going to sell eBay short and make a killing LOL

[16-bit]

No matter how it is rationalized, falsifying a customs form is fraud. Period.

if you would live in Europe, you would thought about whole matter quite differently(especially if you're not rich, love the game, but customs would kill entire deal).

Why not protest in the streets? I was impressed with the european protests against the Iraq war....so why not protest the lack of economic sense in your own politians!

Can you imagine trying to run a small gameshop in Europe? Your customers could just buy online and save 20-30% by not having to pay the VAT It gives foreign/blackmarket sellers a tremendous advantage, distorts trade data, and is not an effective and fair way to raise revenue.

[Rev. Link]

Look, I think we're blowing this all a little out of proportion, here. We're getting into customs laws, and whether or not they're fair, and stuff like that. That's not the issue here.

The issue is simple. Someone has asked Kitsune Sniper to do something illegal. Now, there are plenty of dumb little laws that people break all the time (speed limit, jaywalking, etc.) and this may be one of them for some. The question is, is Kitsune Sniper comfortable breaking - or some could argue bending - this one.

Yeah, this seems like a minor thing, doesn't really hurt anyone, etc, etc. But since you came here asking us about it, I'd guess you must have some doubts about whether or not you want to do this. So here's what I suggest. If you don't want to try to contact the buyer and see if you can get him to agree to cancel the transaction, just go ahead and give the lower number like he wants. Get your positive feedback. Then, in all your listings from now on, make sure you specify that you will not alter prices for customs purposes.

That is, unless you decide that you have no problem doing so. In that case, go to it.

[anagrama]

Thank fuck that 99% of sellers I deal with on eBay aren't pedantic holier-than-thou pricks like half the people in this thread seem to be.

[suppafly]

Thank fuck that 99% of sellers I deal with on eBay aren't pedantic holier-than-thou pricks like half the people in this thread seem to be.

I Second this comment

[scorch56]

Thank fuck that 99% of sellers I deal with on eBay aren't pedantic holier-than-thou pricks like half the people in this thread seem to be.

I Second this comment

DON'T call them "pedantic holier-than-thou pricks"!.. that's NOT nice!

Call them "Mortimers". Everyone always asks me what a "Mortimer" is.. these people are Mortimers.

Mortimer was the little tiny chicken (with the tiny eyes and the BIG glasses) that used to follow "Foster Leghorn" around in the Looney Tunes cartoons. The one who's mom was the old white hen with the bonnet. The momma's boy.

Mortimer was the guy in your math class in high-school. You know.. the nerd with the "holier-than-thou" attitude. The ONE you could always count on when the math teacher had forgotten to give the quiz he mentioned the day before, to pop in; and chime up, and remind him.

Mortimer was a turtle in another cartoon series.

Mortimers NEVER take risks.. but love to watch others do so.. living out their own pathetic lives.. safely and securely while egging others not to.

Mortimer's are the kind of people who cruise eBay listings every night. Policing eBay for free because they have nothing better to do; and quickly putting their nimble fingers to work on the keys the minute they find a TOS to report.

.. this forum is full of them. Welcome to DP. But don't worry.. as I suspect that while most of them are old & wise enough to go spouting pablum-puking snippets of morality.. most of them can't drive to the Post Office yet. If the truth be told.. you'd be surprised how many of DP's members don't have facial hair yet; but they're very bright and with their mature writing styles.. can fool anyone. It's topics like this that always bring out their real age though.

Most of them are going to make fine, upstanding, law-biding citizens someday (King Georgie B. will be VERY happy).. if the world doesn't eat them for lunch first.. ;) . I'm sure glad you guys are home playing video games and eating Cheetos instead of fighting for us in Iraq.

In the end it all comes down to doing what you feel is best for you Kit. You asked for opinions, and you got them.. but nobody's gonna' or SHOULD sway or change your mind. Which makes me wonder why you even asked? You KNOW that the two sides of this question are gonna' split along the lines of those who pay duty and those who don't.

Guess I'm just an American with a backbone.. that's all.

[Felixthegamer]

Kitsune Sniper, what ddi you end up doing?

[Kitsune Sniper]

Kitsune Sniper, what ddi you end up doing?

Well, I ended up sending it as per the buyer's wishes. But on future auctions I'm probably going to refuse to change the cost depending on the circumstances.

anagrama, suppafly:
If you don't have anything constructive to say about the thread, then don't post here. You're only cluttering up the discussion we're having.

scorch:
There's having a backbone, and then there's not wanting to get fined. Your accusations only make you look worse than what you call those of us who are worried about potential problems. In short, don't say anything if you're not going to help.

[16-bit]

double post

[16-bit]

Thank fuck that 99% of sellers I deal with on eBay aren't pedantic holier-than-thou pricks like half the people in this thread seem to be.

I understand your frustration.

You are way overtaxed in the UK.

Everything you pay for in the UK has the VAT and various taxes included in the price. I've spent time in the UK and you folks overpay for everything. Maybe you don't think about it since it is included in the price, so that is how [they] can get away with it.

Again, the United States does not have a national VAT and only a fraction of imports are dutiable (refer to the Harmonized Tarriff Schedule on the US customs website if you don't believe me)

ALTERNATIVES EXIST

Encourage your goverment to explore them.

I sincerely hope for your sake and for all the good people in the UK that your government overhauls their tax system at some point.

[jajaja]

There's having a backbone, and then there's not wanting to get fined

How can u get fined? The only way i can think of is if the buyer reports you, but would he/she do that? The chances for this to happend is incredible small, you have bigger chances in winning the lottery.

[Griking]

There's having a backbone, and then there's not wanting to get fined

How can u get fined? The only way i can think of is if the buyer reports you, but would he/she do that? The chances for this to happend is incredible small, you have bigger chances in winning the lottery.

and yet someone wins the lottery every day

[jajaja]

Griking: Have u ever heard of someone being busted for this? Seems like it so i want to hear the story. If not i dont quite see the point with your last comment.