Problem with bidder, advice needed.

[VACRMH]

Yeah yeah, I know it’s not good looking on my part, but I was looking for some advice on how to handle this situation…

Bidder contacts me about shipping to Canada, before I get a chance to respond he BIN’s the auction.

I ship in boxes that I buy in bulk, and that’s all I usually use. I looked up how much it would cost to ship a 1 pound box to canada on USPS.com and see that Economy (Surface) Parcel Post is $16… so I sent him that asking if that was correct, as it seemed to be WAY too high of a price.

He responded that of course it wasn’t, so I said that I would stop by the post office when I had a chance to check out some rates. Finally did, I have to use an envelope it seems for the cheaper rate so I picked some up, but I was unable to get back to him untill today (I said it would try and contact him Wednesday) due to some issues, hospital and such. So I sent him a much cheaper shipping price, based on what I got from the teller at the post office.

He then says he refuses to pay, doesn’t trust me yada yada. I explained to him that there were some issues, that the $16 was quoted directly from USPS.com and to check my feedback to see that there is no reason to doubt me. And that if he refuses to pay, I’d have to file a non-paying bidder report. Of course he still refuses, so I went ahead and filed.

His response


“Several elements make me suspicious of the seller. He said he thought the shipping charges (for a
video game in a regular, single, jewel case, mind you) were going to be "$16 or $18", according to
USPS", which is downright ludicrous and an insult to the intelligence of anyone who uses eBay on a
regular basis. Also, he waited 7 days before sending me an exact quote ($7), whereas he asks for 3
days for receiving payment. I don't feel comfortable dealing with this seller and this is why I won't
pay
“

:roll: Fuck it, I just want my fees back. Sorry for the long back story. But what I’m really trying to find out what I should respond with to insure that I get my fees back. No drawn out “he said, she said” BS…just what will work.

Also, I’m still a little new to this entire selling thing. What advice can you give me to prevent and protect myself from situations like this? Any notes I should add to terms and conditions? What ways can I ship to canada for cheap?

I’m sure the amount of time it took me to respond puts me partially at fault :-/ but I’d like to have some info prepared for next time.

Thanks.

[Griking]

It looks like you quoted the guy the Airmail Parcel Post rate for shipping. FYI, for a single game you can ship Airmail Letter Post for about 1/2 the price.

What I'd do is provide the guy THIS (http://ircalc.usps.gov/intl_speed.asp?CID=10054&MailType=package&Pounds=2&Ounces=0) link to the USPS website and explain to him that you quoted him the wrong rate. If he's reasonable he'll understand when he sees it. (By the way, the page I linked to is based on shipping a TWO pound package from the US to Canada)

BTW, just another example of the problems that can arise when you offer to ship internationally.

[jcalder8]

If this guy was expecting a cheap rate for shipping he must not deal with e-bay a lot. I am happy when I find an auction with shipping under 7. Shipping to Canada always costs an arm and a leg its just expected. Also if he were so conserned about it then he should have waited to hear back from you. I know that I have missed a few sweet deals because the seller never got back to me in time. I don't know any ways for you to avoid this happening again but I thought I should let you know that I don't think you are in the wrong.

[Darth Sensei]

I've been selling on ebay for awhile and I don't think I'll ever ship internationally. It's just not worth the hassle.

[VACRMH]

It looks like you quoted the guy the Airmail Parcel Post rate for shipping. FYI, for a single game you can ship Airmail Letter Post for about 1/2 the price.

Now for that, can you use a box? Or does it have to be an envelope? I have some of the envelopes now, but I usually use boxes so the item doesn't get damaged.

When I first quoted this guy on the shipping, I asked if the price sounded right, because it seemed way too high to me :-/ And even after I said that I got the price right from USPS.com he still didn't seem to trust me.

So, any idea of what I should or should not mention in my reply to the dispute?

Thanks for all the help so far everyone. I'd like to continue to ship internationally, just because of more available buyers... but it really is a pain in the ass :-/

[nik]

Thats idiotic, I feel bad since i am in canada as well, but he was 100% at fault since he BIN'd it before getting an answer.

That buyer was a fucking tool.

[Griking]

It looks like you quoted the guy the Airmail Parcel Post rate for shipping. FYI, for a single game you can ship Airmail Letter Post for about 1/2 the price.

Now for that, can you use a box? Or does it have to be an envelope? I have some of the envelopes now, but I usually use boxes so the item doesn't get damaged.

ALP is only restricted by the package's weight, not size. Link (http://pe.usps.gov/text/imm/immc1_004.html#wqaDw1awats)


Subject to the following definitions, airmail service may be used to send both letter-post items and parcel post packages to most foreign countries. Letter-post is a generic term for mailpieces of differing shapes, sizes, and contents, which weigh four pounds or less, that are subject to the provisions of the Universal Postal Union Convention. Letter-post items may contain any mailable matter that is not prohibited by the destination country. At the sender's option, special services, such as registry, return receipt, and recorded delivery, may be added on a country-specific basis.

[VACRMH]

Thanks for the tip :) I'll do that from now on.

I ended up responding, pointing out that he bid before figuring out shipping with me.

[VACRMH]

Yay, it continues.

I said...




Bidder won the item before clearing shipping details. Shipping quote for Economy (Surface) Parcel
Post was taken straight from usps.com . Buyer complained about quoted price so I took the time to
stop by the post office and get the proper materials to ship in a less costly manner. Buyer then
refuses to pay.

His response...




I have more reasons NOT to trust this seller than reasons to trust him, therefore I cannot allow
myself to make business with him. For instance, his shipping quotes were all over the place: first
$16 or $18, then, a week later when I told him I would not pay that kind of money to ship a single
jewel case he told me it was now going to cost me $7! All points to the seller using shipping fees
to turn in more profit. I am extremely uncomfortable dealing with someone who uses such tactics.

:angry: I am not one to "turn in more profit".

I think i'll respond with....


This is ridiculous, as plainly seen on usps.com it costs $16 to ship a box Economy (Surface) Parcel Post to Canada. The buyer should have made sure all shipping arrangements were confirmed before bidding on the item, placing him into a binding contract. My shipping fees are always fair, I even took the time to investigate a less expensive method to ship, to make my customer happy, yet they now refuse to pay.

[Darth Sensei]

I was actually considering world wide ebay shipping, but topics like this always kill that line of thought.

[VACRMH]

I was actually considering world wide ebay shipping, but topics like this always kill that line of thought.

I'm still thinkning about it, but adding more rules. Something like "I'm not too familiar with shipping out of the US, so feel free to suggest shipping methods but note that I will not lie on customs forms"

New chapter in the story (How many times do we have to respond to each other until a verdict is made anyways?)

He said...


I have been buying cds and video games from the U.S. for several years now and NEVER has a seller
asked for $16 to ship such an item to Canada. The seller conveniently lowered his asking price by $9
(!) when I told him there was no way I would pay such fees. I didn't take the bait but some other
buyers might. This is not a case of not respecting the agreement, it is rather a case of one abusing
the powers granted by said agreement.

Looks like i'll have to quote the message sent by me saying "this seems a little high, is this normal?"

It's one thing if I did try and pull a stunt like that... I hate being portrayed as a liar :angry:

[loporjai2003]

What is the bidder's ID so we can block him and save ourselves any grief ?

[VACRMH]

What is the bidder's ID so we can block him and save ourselves any grief ?

nosorrow

On with the story :) My response....


Quoted directly from the message I sent about shipping (The $16) "That seems rather high, is this normal for packages going to Canada? " How could I "bait" someone when I felt the shipping seemed too high. Next, after the bidder complained I sent a message stating that I agreed it was high and that I would investigate a better method. "Conveniently" is a rude accusation, as I spent the time and effort to make my buyer happy. This looks like a case of the buyer unhappy with any shipping price.

[VACRMH]

More! I must admit it's giving me something to do at work <_<

His response...



"This looks like a case of the buyer unhappy with any shipping price."
No, this is a case of a buyer
annoyed at a seller exaggerating shipping charges. $7 is still (more than) twice what it usually costs
to ship from the US to Canada. Please keep in mind this doesn't include insurance.

My response



Again, the buyer should not have bid if they did not know (and would be unwilling) to pay the cost of shipping. Buyers are responsible to pay any shipping cost as set by the seller. $16 was indeed a high cost and the method of shipping may have been too advanced for a simple game, which is why I found a better shipping method and cost. $7 is actually quite lower then what some sellers charge.I can't be expected to change my costs based on someones complaints, especially when I looked out for him

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Funk Buddy]

What a tool. Good luck with the whole deal.

[Jed]

There are two ways to prevent this problem.

1. Don't sell internationally, and block all international bidders and buyers. There's somewhere in the buyer restrictions where you can do that, as well as some other useful ones that I use. It may seem drastic, but as other people have stated (and I have learned the hard way), it's not worth the hassle to sell internationally.

2. Learn about such things ahead of time. You're a relatively new seller, but I'm sure you didn't just dive in without any kind of research. I'm not saying these types of situations come up often, but it's good to be prepared. For future reference, sending one small video game to Canada via Letter Post is right around the same price as sending it domestically.

Also, one other thing I wanted to touch on:



Subject to the following definitions, airmail service may be used to send both letter-post items and parcel post packages to most foreign countries. Letter-post is a generic term for mailpieces of differing shapes, sizes, and contents, which weigh four pounds or less, that are subject to the provisions of the Universal Postal Union Convention. Letter-post items may contain any mailable matter that is not prohibited by the destination country. At the sender's option, special services, such as registry, return receipt, and recorded delivery, may be added on a country-specific basis.

I've sent things to Canada heavier than 4 pounds via letter post, in my post office all they ever checked were the dimensions of the box. If it was small enough, it went letter post. I don't know if they changed it recently or whatever, but that's how my place does it. Maybe it's just a Canada thing, I don't know.

[VACRMH]

Thanks for the tips. I plan on just using Letter Post from now on, seems like a good idea.

Anyone know how long the messages back and forth go untill they reach a verdict?

[c0ldb33r]

1. Don't sell internationally, and block all international bidders and buyers. There's somewhere in the buyer restrictions where you can do that, as well as some other useful ones that I use. It may seem drastic, but as other people have stated (and I have learned the hard way), it's not worth the hassle to sell internationally.

It's not all international buyers of course. The problem here isn't that the guy's from Canada, it's that the guy's an asshole :( As nik said, he used buy-it-now before he knew what the shipping was going to be.

As a Canadian ebayer, I get stuff shipped across the border from American sellers all the time. It's never a hassle because I make sure to find out before bidding/BIN how much shipping will be. I know some people refuse to use USPS and only want to go UPS across the border, and I refuse to do that because it costs an arm and a leg. And even when USPS does it, it still costs an arm and a leg (well, maybe just an arm).

I'm sure most Canadian ebayers will do this too. We're mostly reasonable people, just with a few bad apples. So please don't rule out an entire country because this guy's a dick. :D

I never sell on ebay. Is there a way to limit your buyers to a certain point count? That would solve the problem easily as you'd avoid most of the jerks.

[scooby105]

Anyone know how long the messages back and forth go untill they reach a verdict?

Just hit the close dispute button or something like that. After you file a non-paying bidder complaint and the buyer responds you can end the dispute and receive your money back.

Also, ship everythign international via EMS and nothing else. It's the only way you'll have a chance at being covered if they pay via Paypal.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I've sent boxes through Airmail Letter Post a few times; it depended on the clerk, since one of them told me I couldn't ship certain boxes (even if the USPS site said they were allowed).

What was the size of the item? If it's a CD, you can ship it with Global Priority Mail Flat Rate (small envelope) for... $5, I think; two standard CDs fit inside, a bit snugly though. Just make sure you put a lot of padding inside, you can ship up to four pounds in the thing. Standard Priority Mail is also a LOT cheaper than what you first used.

*searches*

It's Saga Frontier II? Yep, you can ship that inside a bubble envelope for less than $5.

For now I'd close the complaint and give him a negative. He won't be able to neg you back. ;)

[VACRMH]

For now I'd close the complaint and give him a negative. He won't be able to neg you back. ;)

And here I was going back and forth this whole time LOL

Thanks for the help everyone.

So he can't neg me back? Because of the unpaid item strike?

[Kitsune Sniper]

For now I'd close the complaint and give him a negative. He won't be able to neg you back. ;)

And here I was going back and forth this whole time LOL

Thanks for the help everyone.

So he can't neg me back? Because of the unpaid item strike?

Well, that's what eBay's help page says, and I've successfully closed three or four non-paying bidder complaints that way, so... yeah.

Edit:
I meant the dispute console... the help page doesn't seem to mention it.