DP Members: Beware of the "Scam-and-Burn"

[Berserker]

Anyone who happened across THIS (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=84032) thread in Buying & Selling may have noticed a bit of sketchiness afoot... I usually don't ip-check people unless they set off a series of alarms in my head, and this guy managed to trip just about all of them.
No feedback or references
Disposable/temporary-sounding username
"YOU must pay first", defensive
Also doesn't help that he's "new". This is something I would only ever discriminate against in a place like Buying & Selling or Everything eBay, due to the very nature of those kinds of forums.So, I ip-checked him. Here's what I found.

me_good39 (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=11964)

IP address for this post
adsl-70-141-6-6.dsl.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net [ 10 Posts ]

Users posting from this IP address
me_good39 [ 10 Posts ]
NiNtEnDoNuT1983 [ 6 Posts ]

It's not uncommon to find more than one username on a similar ip, especially in regards to the larger ISPs out there. Still, the guy rubbed me the wrong way enough to search for the matching user's more recent posts. Luckily NiNtEnDoNuT1983's last few posts were made in Buying & Selling, so I was able to do just that. Here's what the IP profile looks like.

NiNtEnDoNuT1983 (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8221)

IP address for this post
adsl-70-141-6-6.dsl.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net [ 6 Posts ]

Now, what we have here is an exact ip match between two different users, both of which having posted today and yesterday with this same ip intermittedly, hours or at times minutes apart. The odds of this now being mere coincedence at this point are pretty much null. They're posting from the same internet connection, which means they're either in the same house, using the same computer, or they're the same person. The connection became even more doubtless when I found something overlooked previously in the thread -- He retroedited it out of his original post after I said something, but he neglected to do the same to the quoted version of that post that he quoted himself on in a later post...


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d26/NintendoNut1983/000_0247.jpg

The URL to his perhaps now conveniently broken photobucket image.

So now, let's look at what we have here: two presumably seperate users, now unquestionably connected. Nintendonut is the first to the scene on the thread in question, posting a mere minute after it's created, presumably as a sort of "curious spectator"... this person who is connected to me_good39 who himself offers all kinds of rare and must-have collectors item games out of the blue... this person who has all kinds of positive feedback and a fairly upstanding reputation here at DP, in terms of Buying & Selling anyways... yet mentions nothing indicating a connection, nothing to the effect of "Hey guys, me_good39 is a personal friend, you can trust him!", nothing to vouch whatsoever as to the credibility of this person, nothing to indicate he even knows him at all. In a genuine situation like this, it would make infinitely more sense for someone like Nintendonut, with all kinds of good feedback and references, to sell these rare and especially expensive video game items FOR this guy... or at least vouch as to his credibility... I've moderated Buying & Selling for a good while now, and every case I've ever seen of genuine friend-referred business here happens this way... yet in this case, none of this happens. Do you see what I'm getting at here?

NiNtEnDoNuT1983 was trying to pull a scam-and-burn.

Let me interupt this "Back and to the left..." moment to apologize if this seems like conspiracy theorist-type rambling, but these "6-month scam-and-burn" people really get under my skin. You know, the type who hang around here for about 6 months, leveraging a measure of positive feedback, then utilizing it to line up all kinds of deals in one fell swoop, collecting up on the money, and then splitting town. They take advantage of our peer feedback system to sap hundreds out of game collectors. They're scumbags, pure and simple. I'm not going to hunt these people down, and I'm not going to find their home address or anything like that, but if I can find a way to nip these people in the bud before they get a chance to make off with the loot, I'm damn-well going to do it.

I'm 99.999% convinced that this is the same person. Look at the posting style (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=969069). Excessive use of exclamation points... they even both make use of an identical bold green type.

It's the same guy.

I think this case actually pisses me off more, as rather than the standard "6-month scam-and-burn", this guy was actually trying to do so WITHOUT needing to blow town. With all of this info now in-hand, I posted a warning in me_good39's thread stating I knew exactly who his ip-shared user was, whereafter he predictably then proceeded to clam up to any offers stating he was "going to ebay", which was the exact intent I had behind posting that. Defused, for the moment. But what happens now?

Well, shortly after all of this blew over, I brought the matter before my fellow moderation and administration staff here, in a message eerily similar to this post(read:verbatim) and asked about what should be done. Those who responded unanimously agreed that a) NiNtEnDoNuT1983/me_good39 should be banned immediately, and b) that I should duplicate my message for everyone else here to read. So, that's just what I'm doing right now.

I think it's safe to say that in the future, anyone caught trying to perform a "scam-and-burn" on DP Members here will subsequently find their situation resembling that more of a "crash-and-burn", at least in regards to their ability to participate in these forums. Myself along with the rest of the DP forum staff will no longer sit by quietly while our fellow DP members, collectors and gamers get sapped of their hard-earned coinage by those who would try to manipulate the way we do things here to screw honest people out of a quick buck.

If you suspect someone here is trying to perform a "scam-and-burn", please contact a moderator or an administrator here first; we ask that you do not post your suspicions in the public forums without having first consulted with us -- that way, upon reaching agreement of convincing evidence, we would be able to back you up in terms of being able to do something about it, with regards to these boards anyway. A member's reputation is important here, and we won't want to sully it without sufficiently convincing evidence that they're trying to scam fellow members. So if you suspect something is up, hold the phones on it for a bit, collect the evidence you need and state your case to a mod or admin. If your evidence is convincing, we'll back you up on it. Thanks.

[Jed]

I want to throw something in, if you don't mind. If you do, just edit it out.

Anyway, as one of the senior sellers here (not in terms of tenure, but I've stockpiled a ton of feedbacks), there's a couple things I'd like to add.

First off, just having a bunch of good feedback is meaningless, unless you know *what* was sold. It's like eBay, a guy could have 400 feedbacks just from selling a penny, then he lists a Lexus or something. Seems pretty normal, a guy with seemingly good feedback selling something expensive.. and then you're trapped. If you can find out, at all, some of the things that the person sold in the past, it could help with your judgment. I'm not saying to turn tail and run if all they've ever sold were common Atari carts, but it's something to look out for. It just seems to me like someone who sells a lot of rare or expensive stuff wouldn't really want to rip people off for a couple $50 games, but that's just my opinion.

Another thing I look for if I'm buying is the attitude of the seller. If they seem unwilling to work with you, or they're just being a total tool, it might be wise to buy from someone else. I'm not saying to avoid people who won't give you a dollar off, but you should just be aware of how he/she conducts him/herself during the first stages of your transaction. If you just can't seem to trust them, then by all means, move on. There will be another coming along. The exception to that would be something ridiculously rare (NWC or around there), but in that case you wouldn't be buying one from anyone other than someone with an absolute bullet-proof reputation, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Let's face it, folks. There are scammers out there. There always will be. Everyone is out to make money, but some use underhanded tactics to get there. If you can identify potential warning signs, you just might save yourself some money in the end. And like Berserker said, if anything seems fishy, contact a mod immediately. It's better to make sure you're completely safe than to dive in blindly and get screwed.

[scorch56]

Those of us who lost money to BigGeorgeJohnson.. thank you.

I don't even consider buying from anyone anymore who has less posts or hasn't been a member; longer than I.

There's been an awful lot of people with one or two post coming in. and posting B&S stuff the day they join.. lately. I'm not saying they aren't legit.. but I've actually been surprised how many old-timers around here still answer threads of newbs with NO seniority and NO post count.. when the newb posts selling something highly sought after. I won't.. anymore.

His using NiNtEnDoNuT1983's photobucket account to host HIS photo is a DEAD giveaway; even more so than having matching dynamic ips (IMHO). That's some DAMN good detective work.

[evil_genius]

damn!!!!

Nintendonut just got exposed hardcore.
too bad too. we know he is a serious collector, wonder why he turned to the dark side. i really want to think he just wanted to do kind of an interest check sorta thing but had no intention to sell and thats why he did it, but i always give people the benefit of the doubt.

[smork]

Wow! Thanks for posting this! I'm really glad you mods keep on top of things this much...

I've never bought or sold anything from/to anybody here, but it's good to know ya'll are keeping your eyes open for our protection. I just don't get why someone who's obviously a serious collector would be such a scamster... Seems like he should understand how much it sucks to get scammed!

[Bronty-2]

Good job - a well deserved thanks.

[c0ldb33r]

Good job Berserker!

There's nothing worse than getting ripped off online, because really... what do you do? It's usually too hard to go to the guy, you can't really sue them, you just have to be able to trust them.

Hopefully your good work will teach scammers to move elsewhere (or just screw off completely).

Thanks again! :)

[Darth Sensei]

Berzerker, I'm impressed. You and I haven't always agreed, but I'll give credit where it's due.

I'm surprised since I've dealt twice with Nintendonut successfully.

However, Berzerker, if I were you, I'd edit out the IP's you listed as it leaves him open to attack for which DP would be blamed. Personally, it's enough for me to know you checked the IP and they were identical.

[ckendal]

In case anyone wants to get a laugh out of his myspace.com page. Here you go.

NiNtEnDoNuT1983 (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=64541417)

I guess he was trying to con us all so he could 'smoke!'


On another note, Thanks to Berserker and all the other admins/mods for catching this fool. We really appreciate the hard work.

[Lady Jaye]

how do you know it's him?

[Darth Sensei]

how do you know it's him?

It's him because I've talked with him before.

[leonk]

WOW! Excellent detective work!

I've seen NiNtEnDoNuT1983 post here and on other forums, and am shocked to find his name in this thread. He has been a member here for only 8 months. But still..

I've been scammed only once (thankfully) and it did happen on this forum.

So thanks for trying to clean it up.

[jcalder8]

Thanks Berserker for keeping a look out for everyone. I did have a transaction with Nintendonut1983 which went ok apart form the cost that he charged me on shipping so I am surprized that this has happened but I would say that its better safe than sorry it when it comes to stuff like this.

[The Shawn]

That was real good work. It's just sad that it makes new people (like myself) look like we can't be trusted, as video games are the reason I joined anyway.

[DeuZZ]

Thanks for posting this, you should always be suspicious when dealing over the internet, especially on a forum.

He seemed kinda fishy from the start. I mean, he said he wanted to sell the flintstones game beacause he didn't think it was fun to play :roll: And, to top it of, he also had a Caltron 6-in-1 and a sealed Cheetahmen and only 10 posts.

[Darth Sensei]

Berzerker, please delete if this isn't allowed.

I had a chat with Nintendonut on AIM this morning and got his permission to post it. I replaced his AIM name to protect him.

[09:09] Sensei Fu: That was smooth dude.
[09:11] NintendoNut: what?
[09:11] Sensei Fu: The whole DP thing.
[09:11] NintendoNut: what u talking about
[09:11] Sensei Fu: Oh c'mon.
[09:11] Sensei Fu: Have you not been to DP yet today?
[09:13] Sensei Fu: Apparently you didn't put a lot of thought into that, huh?
[09:14] NintendoNut: i dont know why eveyone is thinking im a scammer lol
[09:14] Sensei Fu: Oh c'mon...
[09:15] NintendoNut: fuckem lol i dont care
[09:15] Sensei Fu: Why would you do that?
[09:16] Sensei Fu: ARe you that hard up for cash because of the car thing?
[09:16] NintendoNut: no my insurance covered it all
[09:16] Sensei Fu: Well, then why did you do it?
[09:18] NintendoNut: i didnt do anything
[09:18] Sensei Fu: Dude.
[09:18] Sensei Fu: At least admit it.
[09:18] Sensei Fu: Jesus. You were nailed to the wall.
[09:19] Sensei Fu: And you really hurt your ability to collect NES and such.
[09:19] NintendoNut: ok!!!! i did it...just go see what kind of offers i would get for my nes stuff....because everytime i try to sell one of my rare items everyone rip's on me saying im not a collector and all...anyways i WAS NOT PLANNING ON RIPPING PEEPE OFF ON ANYTHING
[09:21] Sensei Fu: You expect me to believe that you'd have better luck selling stuff from a new, no feedback name than your established name with good feedback?
[09:21] NintendoNut: i wasent going to sell it
[09:21] NintendoNut: i just wanted to get offers and see what i would be able to sell them for
[09:21] Sensei Fu: You weren't asking for offers. You demanded prices.
[09:22] Sensei Fu: And why didn't you ask from your established name?
[09:22] NintendoNut: well if you are going to think less of me because of this then i can understand, but u you to believe me i was not going to try and rip anyone off im an honest guy i have never stolen my whole life and i always try to help peep
[09:23] Sensei Fu: You haven't answered my question.
[09:23] NintendoNut: because i know then eveyone would be saying i gay for selling it...i got a huge speal about it at NESWORLD from a fer guys when i was going to sell my uforce demo
[09:24] Sensei Fu: And as far as values go, why wouldn't you just look on ebay?
[09:24] NintendoNut: there hasent been a CIB f2 in along time
[09:24] NintendoNut: plus i like selling rare games in foruims to help out fellow collectors
[09:25] Sensei Fu: Yes, but you just said that you didn't intend to sell them.
[09:25] NintendoNut: just believe me man i was not running a scam......i just was trying to do a lil research undercover lol
[09:25] NintendoNut: i know i was trying to see how much i can gt in the foruims not ebay..
[09:26] Sensei Fu: Because?
[09:26] NintendoNut: i have been thinking alot, and i might be selling my games in the near future, i need to pay my bills and get a house
[09:26] NintendoNut: i also plan on selling my vitage baseball cards too
[09:26] Sensei Fu: And how do you intend to do that when you've ruined your rep?
[09:27] NintendoNut: i guess i will ebay them i dont care lol o
[09:27] NintendoNut: ican make a new name at foruims and sell then
[09:27] NintendoNut: if this ruined my rep then o well just gives me more reason to sell me games sooner
[09:28] Sensei Fu: What makes you think people are going to be willing to buy from a "noob"?
[09:28] NintendoNut: lol they have b4 and so have i
[09:29] NintendoNut: so do you believe me at all or what? dude seriously i was not trying to scam....
[09:29] Sensei Fu: Mind if I post this chat in Vbender? The DP guys in there would like to know what happened.
[09:29] NintendoNut: go for it lol i banned there anyways
[09:31] NintendoNut: please believe me too man i dont want everyone to think i was running a scam...i was just trying to find out how much i can get for me games and tried to do it discrete without having to deal with people talking shit to me about saying im not a true collector and all that
[09:31] Sensei Fu: Well, you were fair with me before but seriously after this I would require you to ship first.
[09:31] Sensei Fu: If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck.. etc.
[09:32] NintendoNut: lol yeah but we have traded b4 and i have traded with many other member on the board and i have never onec ripped anyone off or have had one unhappy customer
[09:32] NintendoNut: can u post this in NESWORLD T2?
[09:32] NintendoNut: thank
[09:32] Sensei Fu: I'll post it on DP.
[09:32] NintendoNut: nesworld?
[09:33] Sensei Fu: Yeah, I'll post it there. I need to go there to talk to Gundam Pilot anyway.
[09:33] NintendoNut: ok thanks and i hope you understand that im not a bad guy and was just trying to do a simple lil project and it turned on me
[09:34] NintendoNut: dont u think if i was running a scam to i would of wanted to get rid of the stuff ASAP and i was beating around the bush trying to see how high i could go
[09:34] NintendoNut: i would think if i was running a scam i woud want to get the cash soon as possible
[09:35] NintendoNut: brb i need a smoke im all worked up now lol
[09:35] Sensei Fu: I'm posting it to DP now.

[Canadianzombie]

I've actually seen people on the site here change their "handles" (for some reason) and then sell the same stuff they were trying to get rid of weeks before under their other name, the exact same stuff, it's weird and makes you wonder "what's up". This has happened twice in the last month here.
Cheers
Mark

[jajaja]

The only reason i can think of why he would do this is because he said earlier he needed money for the car repair. 1-2 months ago he tried to sell his U-Force demo cart and someone started to bash him because he just bought it and was already trying to sell it. Therefor i thought he might make a new account and try to hide his identity.

But the chat log cuewarrior posted he said the insurance covered it. So why would he be selling his stuff?

[kainemaxwell]

Thank you for exposing this guy.

[srabelpawz]

I had a chat with Nintendonut on AIM this morning and got his permission to post it. I replaced his AIM name to protect him.
isn't his AIM listed on his myspace page? ckendal might want to remove the link to his page. back on topic IMO he doesn't seem like the scammer type

[blissfulnoise]

For what it's worth…

I can understand if he was trying to sell the games "on the downlow" as he perceived he might damage his credibility, whatever it actually was. It can be painful having to walk away from a passion that you love under non-optimal circumstances so leaving with a degree of anonymity can help soften the blow.

So many people come into this hobby, like any other, rack up thousands and thousands in debt to try to try and “play with the big boys”. After the realization of what they’ve done sets in, they end up dumping their collection when they realize they can’t sustain it.

I don’t know if this is NintendoNut’s scenario or not, but regardless, it can be embarrassing to a degree to make some name for yourself as a collector, then be forced to turn your back on it for whatever reason. Most people who dump their collections on boards like these subsequently leave and never come back. But some may want to stick around as gamers or enthusiasts and still participate in discussions. And as such, they might feel that they’re somehow less worthy to be around, or at least fear they’ll be perceived as such.

I don’t know if I’m expressing this correctly, it’s still kind of muddled in my mind, but I just want to say there IS a logic behind his actions if we give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he doesn’t mean to rip anyone off.

I actually considered these things when I put up my Myriad and RacerMate but the reasons for me listing it weren’t necessarily financial, but more of a self-sacrifice given the circumstances surrounding their sale.

Ultimately though, in my opinion, I doubt he would have attempted to rip anyone off. After all, simply posting your items under a different user account doesn't make a scam in and of itself. He would still need set up a system to allow him to receive payment without revealing himself completely. Not to mention, over items like that, you can be assured mail fraud would come into play if there was a non-completed transaction.

I’m the first to sound the horns when I detect bullshit around here. I love these forums. I really do. You guys, by and large, are a great bunch and it pains me when we get gamefaqs kiddies around here, spammers, scammers, and idiots in general. But I think that we may have gone too far in this case without knowing all the facts. While I do realize you can only go so far when you take someone at their word, this may have been a literal witchhunt to hold an example up for the people who really do want to rip people off.

And for what it's worth, NintendoNut was one of the highest offers on my Myriad, but we couldn't agree on a price I could accept. Shortly after that transaction fell apart he began to sell parts of his collection. Related? Dunno. But it might be relevant to this conversation.

[c0ldb33r]

Still though he should have been honest in any event.

Replying to his own message in a buy/sell thread just raises eyebrows.

He should have just said something like, "Listen I'm just curious what types prices I could get, I'm not looking to sell".

Nothing beats honesty.

[GrandAmChandler]

Deceiving the entire forum membership by pretending to be another forum member to sell something will NOT be tolerated.

[Jumpman Jr.]

In the words of Bender from Futurama: My entire perception of reality just got turned upside down.
Well, not really. But sort of. As soon as me_good39 posted in the Buying and Selling forum wanting to sell his Flinstones 2, I knew something was up. Origionally I thought it would be just a scammer trying to make a quick buck, and I was suprised at how many people actually would have been willing to buy something from him.
Then, I read Berserker's post about how this person is actually a fairly reputable seller/buyer on DP and I'm pretty shocked, but I'm more curious to who it is. My first instinct was that it was NintendoNut simply because I knew he had a Flinstones 2 and because he hasn't really been here all that long.
Then, I read this thread and my hat goes off to Berserker for this amazing detective work. It's mods like this that enable us to have a good community of gamers. Good work.
However, I don't particularilly beleive that he was actually trying to scam anybody. I sort of agree with what he said about people ripping on his threads for selling his stuff, especially after the U-Force thing.
In any event, one thing good that came out of this is that my biggest competition for buying NES stuff is now off of the boards :P.

[Qixmaster]

the whole time i thought it was panesian as i know he is getting out of collecting. looks as if panesian has now posted in the B&S thread.

anyways, good work! Anybody who attempts to fuck with me on games will get a boot in the ass if i ever meet you.

And it just so happens that was my old flintstones 2 he was attempting to resell.

thanks for keeping our community safe berseker.

-Josh

[Ninja Blacksox]

In case anyone wants to get a laugh out of his myspace.com page. Here you go.

NiNtEnDoNuT1983 (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=64541417)

I guess he was trying to con us all so he could 'smoke!'


Good god.

That page makes me want to punch a baby.

-A Boy

[Mezmoron]

Thanks for keeping order in the ranks.

Ken

[tynstar]

So he made a mistake and posted in his own thread so it look "shady". I don't think he was trying to rip anyone off.

[Qixmaster]

So he made a mistake and posted in his own thread so it look "shady". I don't think he was trying to rip anyone off.

I don't think he was trying to rip anyone off either...

He, however, violated the trust and respect of everyone that deals here on a weekly basis.

He states that he is an "honest" guy when trading and selling (and i don't doubt that), but he isn't an honest guy when it comes to being upfront about what he is selling. That is why I will not deal with him again.

-Josh

[captain nintendo]

I don't particularilly beleive that he was actually trying to scam anybody. I sort of agree with what he said about people ripping on his threads for selling his stuff, especially after the U-Force thing.
In any event, one thing good that came out of this is that my biggest competition for buying NES stuff is now off of the boards :P.

IMO,

I also dont believe he was trying to scam people. The fact that he asked for the thread to be closed and probably didnt take people's offers on these games is proof.

Do we have anybody here who actually made an offer and got an answer back form him?

I also agree that people on forums tend to rip on threads and act like jerks to certain members for the stupidest of reasons.

I do give Berzerker "props" for his P.I. skills ;) , but I dont think NintendoNut was out to scam anyone... Just looking for prices. He shouldn't have resorted to this method to get a price check though :/ And just so he knows, I am sure there are plenty of guys here at DP or www.rfgeneration.com that would gladly have given him the information.



- Rick

[jcheatle]

In case anyone wants to get a laugh out of his myspace.com page. Here you go.

NiNtEnDoNuT1983 (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=64541417)

I guess he was trying to con us all so he could 'smoke!'


Good god.

That page makes me want to punch a baby.

-A Boy

Amen. At least it provides a bit of explanation re: his completely unintelligible thought processes. Frat boys...

I have to believe, like others here, that he wasn't intentionally trying to scam somebody but yeah... you can't go doing that shite. I caught the thread before Berserker jumped in and it just plain seemed off somehow, so good sleuthing there.

Just nice to know somebody's watching out for the common man around here. Thanks. :)

[pacmanhat]

I don't particularilly beleive that he was actually trying to scam anybody. I sort of agree with what he said about people ripping on his threads for selling his stuff, especially after the U-Force thing.

Same here...I think it's kinda lame that people would rip on a guy for wanting to sell some of his stuff. If anything, I'd welcome it - if it can be moved to a good/better home, then I'm all for it. I also don't think that Nintendonut truly meant to rip anyone off. HOWEVER, I'm glad that there isn't tolerance here for the way that he went about it. Being shady is one thing, but being downright deceitful is another. Props to Berserker and the rest of the mods for their hard work on this. It's clearly in their best interests to make DP a more positive and safe place for gaming discussion and trading, and this is a prime example of that interest and hard work paying off. :)

[Ed Oscuro]

All I have to add on the matter is that I never parsed his name right (as "Nintendo Nut"); it always looked like "Ninten Donut" to me. I don't think you can buy those at a Dunkin's.

[kentuckyfried]

I appreciate everything that's been done by DP members and staff in terms of uncovering this situation.

I'm not entirely sure if this was intended to be a scam, but it was intolerable, wrong, and just plain icky ;)

Good luck to Nintendonut or whatever you username is, I hope you find your path.

[anagrama]

All I have to add on the matter is that I never parsed his name right (as "Nintendo Nut"); it always looked like "Ninten Donut" to me.

Heh, ditto :) Seemed like a goon from day one to me...

[c0ldb33r]

All I have to add on the matter is that I never parsed his name right (as "Nintendo Nut"); it always looked like "Ninten Donut" to me.

Heh, ditto :) Seemed like a goon from day one to me...

I always thought it was ninten donut too, I thought it was pretty funny :D (I thought it was intentional)

[Whiskey Mark]

Thank you, Berserker for helping to protect the integrity of the DP community. Wonderful digital sleuthing, sir.

*raises his whiskey* :-P

[Berserker]

Thanks for all the replies. Having read through all of them, I notice the tide sort of shifts near the end as to suggest "he wasn't really going to sell, he probably wasn't really trying to scam anyone etc..".

Well, let it be known that, and anyone who read the thread prior to my posting could vouch for this, that until I posted in his thread stating I knew EXACTLY who he was, the intent present behind the wording and presentation in his thread was none other than to collect money. Hell, look at his last post prior to me saying something:


had lots of offers......

$300 gets it

more items added!!!!

Such as:
Cheetahmen II
Bubble Bobble II
Dragon warrior 1-4
Megaman 1-6
Contra Force CIB
Caltron 6 in 1
and many more

This seems to indicate a progression of sorts, to me anyway.

-Offer up a rare game under an assumed name to see if anyone will put up any serious offers without the need for feedback or references.

-The bait is taken. Serious offers are made. Well, might as well offer up more rare games in the hopes of achieving a similar effect.

It stopped there because I said something, but let's assume for a moment that it was allowed to continue. I think the progression probably would've went along something like this...

-More serious offers are made. People just can't seem to pass up on a rare oppurtunity to snag some rare games, despite what misgivings they might have. What now...

-Oh shit, I just realized that the picture URL on my photobucket has my real name in it! Nobody seemed to notice yet though, but I better edit it out real quick.(note: he did this very thing after I posted, but neglected to do it in the quoted version he made of it.)

-Someone just deposited the first payment into my paypal account in agreement with my "pay first" stipulation. It's really working... wait, just got another one. So at this point, now having all of this money, I could ship these games to the person assuming I still have them, and I could even get some nice positive feedback for this totally fabricated username I could care less about... or, I could keep the money, keep the games, ship nothing, and get some really negative feedback for this totally fabricated username I could care less about, and continue on with business as usual at DP.

-Hmmm... what to do.

He used a falsified username. He didn't create an "Interest Check" thread, or a "How much are these games worth lately" thread. He created a FOR SALE thread for one rare game, and after he saw that he could get some serious offers for it, he added more rare games along with a "pay first" stipulation. If he ever asked for how much it was worth in the thread previously, it'd been long since edited out by the time I arrived on the scene, and replaced with the resounding sentiment: "MAKE AN OFFER."

Only, he only made use of his main account to drum up false interest in the thread, not to vouch for credibility of this person to help sell the games. Otherwise, his main account might have some things to answer for should this guy blow town with everyone's money. Think about it. Even if he was looking to genuinely sell these games via a falsified user account, if he was genuinely planning on selling these games, such a recommendation could only help his situation.

Nintendonut was certainly not the brightest attempted scammer ever to walk the earth, but EVERY bit of evidence I came across, along with EVERY word of his posts that I read told me that he had but one goal in mind, ultimately -- Offer the bait, take the money, ship nothing, and never touch that account again. If his intentions were anything but that, then he sure did a hell of a job fooling me, because I suspect I'd be hard-pressed to even come across a more concrete case than that twice.

So if you're asking me if I have to choose between either banning someone in regards to which all evidence points to that they plan on taking peoples' money without delivering anything in return and then blowing town under that name, or waiting for this person to see their scams to fruition, and simply mopping up afterwards and offering condolences and sympathy to the unfortunate folks who got suckered by this person, guess which option I'm going with.

This isn't Minority Report; we're not swooping in from the rafters to punish people for crimes they haven't even thought of committing yet. This is direct action against attempted scammers. This is us seeing their hand in the "cookie jar", using fast-talk and gesturing to illustrate to our members all the great things that will happen 'if...' with one hand, and using the other hand to pick through their wallets for cash and credit cards unawares. This is us catching them red-handed, and booting their ass out of our establishment. Thanks again for all the comments.

[blissfulnoise]

Fair enough.

Ultimately, he perpetuated a falsehood in the course of a business transaction, and, that, should never be allowed to take place.

[MrRoboto19XX]

I dont think that Ninten-donut (as I thought it was) was trying to scam everybody, but I do believe the right actions were taken.

Good work Berserker, cheers.

And Best of luck Nintendonut, I sincerely hope things work out for you.

[evil_genius]

Same here...I think it's kinda lame that people would rip on a guy for wanting to sell some of his stuff.

these are not normal people

[kentuckyfried]

Re-reading the dialogue in the original thread leaves me to believe that there was a scam intended. Especially the playing it ignorant part on value at the beginning, coupled with the it's not fun anymore statement.

A lawyer in a court of law probably wouldn't have to try to hard to get a lesser sentence, (like pulling a gun and not shooting) ,but a sensible judge would slam him for as much as he could under the law with intent, regardless of argument.

I stress my gratitude again, thanks Berserker :)

[suppafly]

I believe he was trying to scam people.

I´ve been scammed before and it sucks. People like that dont deserve any good wishes or compassion

[Jumpman Jr.]

After reading Berserker's latest post, there isn't a doubt in my mind that he was trying to scam people, and thus, the actions taken are 100% justified to me.

[InsaneDavid]

There's been an awful lot of people with one or two post coming in. and posting B&S stuff the day they join.. lately. I'm not saying they aren't legit.. but I've actually been surprised how many old-timers around here still answer threads of newbs with NO seniority and NO post count.. when the newb posts selling something highly sought after. I won't.. anymore.

That because sometimes you roll the bones and luck out - getting an excellent deal because everyone else was afraid to take the risk with a new user for big money.


That was real good work. It's just sad that it makes new people (like myself) look like we can't be trusted, as video games are the reason I joined anyway.

You have to understand that to a lot of people NiNtEnDoNuT1983 was a respectable collector up until this little stunt. Post count has nothing to do with the criteria under which someone may try to pull a scam. 3 posts or 3000, someone could always go AWOL and try to pull a fast one and split - in this case he was trying to do so and still remain an "upstanding" member of DP.

As for the whole feeling he may of had of "it's a disgrace to realize you can't afford the hobby" stuff, just look at Off Topic sometime, we all have lives (somewhat). If hard times come down, if you need the money, if you just want to get out of something - be upfront about it. There are many high level collectors on these forums that have sold mass amounts, or all, of their collections in Buying and Selling. They're still here, and they're still highly respected. However flat out lying and playing the shell game with your identity is crap from any angle.

I want to commend Berserker for catching this and taking care of it so quickly.

[Ed Oscuro]

All I have to add on the matter is that I never parsed his name right (as "Nintendo Nut"); it always looked like "Ninten Donut" to me.

Heh, ditto :) Seemed like a goon from day one to me...

I always thought it was ninten donut too, I thought it was pretty funny :D (I thought it was intentional)
At least we know where the carrot goes now! HAW

[Ed Oscuro]

You have to understand that to a lot of people NiNtEnDoNuT1983 was a respectable collector up until this little stunt. Post count has nothing to do with the criteria under which someone may try to pull a scam. 3 posts or 3000, someone could always go AWOL and try to pull a fast one and split - in this case he was trying to do so and still remain an "upstanding" member of DP.
:embarrassed:

As somebody who's often had problems B&Sing, yeah, just being wordy doesn't mean you're going to guarantee a smooth deal. The feedback forum is a great idea, but really, there's no way to predict if a scam artist will strike.

[drwily008]

All I have to add on the matter is that I never parsed his name right (as "Nintendo Nut"); it always looked like "Ninten Donut" to me.

Heh, ditto :) Seemed like a goon from day one to me...

I always thought it was ninten donut too, I thought it was pretty funny :D (I thought it was intentional)

Yep everytime I saw it, well I always thought of donuts.

He also has one of the most craptastic blogs ever. There are alot of people on myspace who suck ass.

[Avatard]

I would never ever buy anything from someone with a user name with every other letter capitalized anyhow. Or with a "leet" speak name. It reeks of doing business with a 13 year old. Good work none-the-less. 8-)

[scorch56]

[09:28] Sensei Fu: What makes you think people are going to be willing to buy from a "noob"?
[09:28] NintendoNut: lol they have b4 and so have i


.. these two lines.. speak volumes..

"buying from a noob?".. so have I.. actually.. but never again.

[Undertaker]

That was real good work. It's just sad that it makes new people (like myself) look like we can't be trusted, as video games are the reason I joined anyway.
I agree 100% with you Shawn.I to am new to DP.I have been on ebay several years now. See stems2000.I have never tried to scam anyone.I guess I hope to get exactly what I am buying.Sometimes your feedback is hard to build up because people do not leave it.I always tell people to let me know how things are.I do like this site because you can buy,sell or trade things to help your collection or someone elses.Good job Berserker for helping point out people like that.Hopefully that can keep those people from messing things up for us.Thanks 8-)

[Matt-El]

I agree with the sentiment David said. He was getting to be a great member of the board. Doing the masquerade is underhanded and there are better ways of doing it.

It's like that cover of American Splendor with Letterman telling Harvey Pekar "You F---ed up a great thing."


Oh well...

[Half Japanese]

Wow. Great work Berserker. This is one of those threads you have to read the entirety of, and in that regard is 2nd only to the mighty "Bio Force Ape" debacle, which, I think, will never be topped.

[ChronoTriggaFoo]

Wow. Great work Berserker. This is one of those threads you have to read the entirety of, and in that regard is 2nd only to the mighty "Bio Force Ape" debacle, which, I think, will never be topped.

You have expressed my sentiments exactly. This was huge, and I literally thought of the farcical Bio Force Ape thread when I delved into this one. I read this stickied announcement this morning as if it was a major news event in the world. I was completely stunned that a trusted DP'er would stoop so low. I must commend you, Berserker, for a wonderful investigative job.

My opinion of NintenDoNut is, well..."I want to believe..."

[mills]

what a douchebag. This sentence basically sums up what a tool he is


[09:35] NintendoNut: brb i need a smoke im all worked up now lol

[Amy Rose]

I'm getting scared of buying from the b&s forum nowdays, to be honest. I've had so many deals fall through, no replies when I've been about to send money and PMed the seller to double check something... a package I paid for over a month ago hasn't arrived, but as that was a one off, I'm letting it slide (it could have been the postal system, I'm really not sure). It really sucks that something like this had to happen.

[Fuyukaze]

I'd like to say there is some reasable defense to his actions, but I honestly cant think of anything. If he had been interested in checking prices, he wouldnt have demaned payment before shiping. What, would he suddenly anounce that he was the same person and refund everyone? Would he actualy go thru and send out the games? We will never know now. Should this surprise or scare anyone? To a degree, yes and no. The buying and selling section here has never been a 100% safe place to buy as one will always run the risk of getting ripped off. Things wont be described as they actualy are. Things may never get shiped at all. People dont pay up to what's agreed. The ways one can get scamed or many. All this realy does for me is let me know who one of the posible scammers are. You can go by post counts in trying to verify if someone is a solid member of DP who values their respect earned here, but honestly that is a very stupid way. Consider that any new person can post up to 25 threads a day (is responses the same?) or 25 responses. Now, if they do that many for 7 days, that gives them 175 posts in one week. In one month, that gives them 700+ Posts. Basicly what I myself have gathered in a year and a half of posting. Does this mean that person who's been here only a month has the same credability as myself? I would hope not! People who have history tend to not get up and disapear. Sure, everyone has the posibilty to go bad, but getting worked up and scared because someone with an 8 month history shows himself to be a potential scamer is realy not a good enough reason to get worked up into a panic. Exspecialy if you yourself were not a victem.

Use the buying section to sell.
Use it to buy stuff as well.
Not everyone in it is a crook, but not everyone is honest. Basicly, you the buyer/seller should decide if you can trust or not. Myself, I'm going to continue to buy stuff on the buying and selling. One day I may very well get scamed. Thankfully it's not been that way so far.

[tylerwillis]

Whatever his intent, his actions were reprehensible.

As both a buyer and a seller, Berserker has my thanks for keeping a sharp eye on the forum.

[GuilewasNK]

I would never ever buy anything from someone with a user name with every other letter capitalized anyhow. Or with a "leet" speak name. It wreaks of doing business with a 13 year old. Good work none-the-less. 8-)

LOL

I can definitely understand that line of reasoning.

[sirhansirhan]

Yeah, it's been said before, but I'm glad to see him go because A) He's obviously a dumbass scammer, and B) his username irritated me. Stupid Kazaa, influencing people's capitalization.

Hooray for Berserker.

[Reverend JagDiesel]

Well, I was just over at rfgeneration at saw that Donut has stuff for sale, mostly the same type stuff he had listed here under that "secret identity". I dropped a post in the thread basically stating that I would find it hard to deal with him after all the bs over here. I then asked if he would ship first.
Let's see what, if any, response he gives...

[gepeto]

For what it is worth. It is all about integrity. Regardless of the reasons. No other business would tolerate this. I think the term is called shill (creating a false identity in order to manipulate).

This is a good life lesson. No matter how much you think you can get over no matter how tempting it is to be deceitful you never really know who's watching.

NiNtEnDoNuT1983 crossed the line and got called on it.
Good job Berserker.

[cavein2000]

Wow! (realize I'm chiming in a bit late), I haven't traded with Nintendo Donut boy before but would have done so without hesitation. Just tell me, who wouldn't trust a racoon mario, wiith that cute little tail and all? You wouldn't? Well, maybe I would have my doubts if it were mario in the tanooki suit...

[tynstar]

Well, I was just over at rfgeneration at saw that Donut has stuff for sale, mostly the same type stuff he had listed here under that "secret identity". I dropped a post in the thread basically stating that I would find it hard to deal with him after all the bs over here. I then asked if he would ship first.
Let's see what, if any, response he gives...

He said he would.

I think this thread is funny as hell.

[ghsqb]

First off, excellent work Berserker, and on behalf of the entire DP community thank you for being vigilant and protecting all of us.

For those of you that feel that Nintendonut really didn't plan to scam anyone in the end, consider his actions when confronted in the thread by Berserker.

Denial and coverup. Had he simply come clean at that time, who knows maybe this whole thing goes in a different direction, but his reaction clearly shows what his intentions were.

Consider also that had his intentions trully been what he said they were, don't you think he'd be much more likely to recieve serious feedback, and thus be more likely able to determine these games true value, by posting as a recognized user with an established rep on DP?

There are many veteran collectors on this board that are too savvy, and are not going to give a n00b like this the time of day on the games he was offering.

Make the same offer as a reputable (certainly moreso than as a complete n00b) member of DP and you're going to see alot more people come out of the woodwork.

His actions are contrary to what his stated intent was, no question the right decision was taken.

Everyone here that does business in the B&S forum can feel even more secure now knowing that we have this caliber of people minding the store for us.

[jcheatle]

After reading Berserker's latest post, there isn't a doubt in my mind that he was trying to scam people, and thus, the actions taken are 100% justified to me.

1. For the purpose of recanting my previous statement in this thread, I couldn't have said it any better than Jumpman did. 100% in agreement.

2. I thought I was alone on the Ninten-Donut thing, but apparently *really* not.

3. Anybody else surprised by the fact that he's not some 14 year old spoiled rich kid with Daddy's credit card? Because that was my first impression, what with the spelling and all. Irrelevant, I suppose, however.

That is all. Thanks again, Berserker.

[Kamino]

lol

[DaveD]

In looking over the comments about members not taking a chance on newbs, by being so paranoid about being scammed by posters with little or no feedback or low post-counts, one also runs the risk of totally missing out on finding new reliable and honest traders/sellers as well. I personally don't do alot of posting, but when I first started replying to a few WTB posts, an established member of this board "took a chance" on me as a total newb. (at that time, I had NO feedback, and maybe about 4 posts) But, as a result, over the next few months he ended up buying literally thousands of $ worth of additional classic games from me. Similarly, when I started my own selling thread last year, a few others took a chance and ended up glad that they did. I'm not saying one should not be reasonably cautious <insert George Bush Sr. "prudent" quote here>, but if nobody ever trusted anyone, there would never be any trading/buying/selling going on at all. It's like the "real" world in the sense that the only way to become established at something is for someone to give you a chance. Anyways, that's my two-cents worth on that...
I'd also like to thank Berserker for the good detective-work; it's nice to know you guys are out there keeping this board the cool place that it is.

[tynstar]

This really has nothing to do with the thread but doesn't everyone remember they where a "noob" once.

[koster]

Nice work, Berserker.

Let this thread be a warning to all scammers (and scammer wanna-bes).

[orrimarrko]

Very well said. Not only do I understand what you're trying to say, I couldn't agree more.

I just for the life of me can't figure out why anyone would care what anonymous others on a forum think.

Oh well.


For what it's worth…

I can understand if he was trying to sell the games "on the downlow" as he perceived he might damage his credibility, whatever it actually was. It can be painful having to walk away from a passion that you love under non-optimal circumstances so leaving with a degree of anonymity can help soften the blow.

So many people come into this hobby, like any other, rack up thousands and thousands in debt to try to try and “play with the big boys”. After the realization of what they’ve done sets in, they end up dumping their collection when they realize they can’t sustain it.

I don’t know if this is NintendoNut’s scenario or not, but regardless, it can be embarrassing to a degree to make some name for yourself as a collector, then be forced to turn your back on it for whatever reason. Most people who dump their collections on boards like these subsequently leave and never come back. But some may want to stick around as gamers or enthusiasts and still participate in discussions. And as such, they might feel that they’re somehow less worthy to be around, or at least fear they’ll be perceived as such.

I don’t know if I’m expressing this correctly, it’s still kind of muddled in my mind, but I just want to say there IS a logic behind his actions if we give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he doesn’t mean to rip anyone off.

I actually considered these things when I put up my Myriad and RacerMate but the reasons for me listing it weren’t necessarily financial, but more of a self-sacrifice given the circumstances surrounding their sale.

Ultimately though, in my opinion, I doubt he would have attempted to rip anyone off. After all, simply posting your items under a different user account doesn't make a scam in and of itself. He would still need set up a system to allow him to receive payment without revealing himself completely. Not to mention, over items like that, you can be assured mail fraud would come into play if there was a non-completed transaction.

I’m the first to sound the horns when I detect bullshit around here. I love these forums. I really do. You guys, by and large, are a great bunch and it pains me when we get gamefaqs kiddies around here, spammers, scammers, and idiots in general. But I think that we may have gone too far in this case without knowing all the facts. While I do realize you can only go so far when you take someone at their word, this may have been a literal witchhunt to hold an example up for the people who really do want to rip people off.

And for what it's worth, NintendoNut was one of the highest offers on my Myriad, but we couldn't agree on a price I could accept. Shortly after that transaction fell apart he began to sell parts of his collection. Related? Dunno. But it might be relevant to this conversation.

[QBert]

I usually don't buy or sell on here (but I have in the past), so I didn't see this thread until now.

I just wanted to say nice one Beserker. :)

Oh, and I always read his user name as Ninten Donut too. (bastard)

[b0bby]

Although Berserker's detetive work was great, I don't necesarily agree with the whole "ban him" thing. As long as he sends first to other people who cares?

[b0bby]

Oh and BTW his myspace would make baby jesus cry.

[JoeNES]

I'm relatively new to the boards, so I just want to say:

1. I've dealt with Nintendonut on NESWORLD with success before, and until now I had an 'anything goes after one trade' mentality. Now I know how foolish that idea is and how it invites a scam.

2. I'm glad people keep a close eye on things, it keeps us all safer. If others see the royal slam you get from just trying something shady, more scammers will go elsewhere.

Many thanks, keep up the good work.